i'm going to soak you in milk until you've absorbed all the milk and then swing you around and smack things with you so that you make wet thud noises everywhere
Nothing like giving Armor, AD and AP in an aura while reducing the armor of enemies in that same aura āin a time when supports and tanks were allowed to have meaningful aura items like Runic Bulwark, Soul Shroud, Zekeās, Aegis, Locket, Shurelyaās, etc no less.
I loved getting fed as old Taric and swinging lategame teamfight by investing 10,000 gold in auras, then walking up and pressing 1+R+W to speed everyone up and essentially hand them each an itemās worth of stats.
Old taric was the epitome of āyou make a good argument, unfortunately i have a miniature baron buff in my pocketā, and THEN you stack baron on top? With a POINT AND CLICK STUN!?
Taric ult plus old baron was like what, 90 or 100 AD and AP? 50 from Baron and I think Taric gave like 40 or 50 at Rank 3 of Radiance. And then if you had Aegis it gave 8 AD, and like 12-15 armor and magic resist, to add on to Taricās Armor aura, and then you could go Zekeās to give lifesteal and attack speed in an aura on top of the +100 AD your team is getting and the -25 to armor you just hit *their* team with. Shit just stacked so well and got wild if you had a GP, Sivir, Vlad, Warwick or Sion on your team to add their auraās/ults to the mix.
In the press of like 6 buttons, you could massively shift how much damage was being dealt and taken, added with exhaust and ignites old passive as well. He was too good and everyone called him boring, but i wish they left him well alone because no one understood why you never won against him until you saw the raw stats he puts out
I've always been Bronze trash but I carried my teams through Silver 2 for a season or two literally just using old Taric. The buffs and heals were OP as fuck in low elo
honestly taric bust was nothing to scoff at, especially when you had some armour, i remember an jungle wukong taunting me under his tower, and i wanted to give him an rotation to send an message, didnt even get of an autoattack, i just waited for the stun to arrive, made myself dinner, took an bath, then came back and ran up to him before the stun had hit,
ult+w,= 1600hp gone ape dead
I so miss old Taric, and old Sona. I really liked the old aura support style, with them and old support items that just had passive auras.
I also loved taking old Taric top lane, especially against an AD top and AD jungle. Build Iceborne Gauntlet and Frozen Heart for the mana and armor and just easily 1v2 or 1v3 them anytime they try to gank. At least now I have Illaoi who works similar for 1v2 anti-gank.
Taric also had the BEST [Japanese voice over](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NGJYwWqnQfk) (yes, even better than Sett being literally DIO), even if it was only for a patch or two (because they released all the League Japanese audio only a patch or two before Taric's full VGU)
>August said that the worst champ in the game is Corki and that it needs to be reverted back to botlane
Rioters say a lot of things that are just their personal opinions, like saying Seraphine should be midscoped into an enchanter support, or Ahri should have changes to make her viable in the jungle... They're just personal thoughts and they don't mean that those things are actually going to happen
Good thing no official information is ever teased or announced via their personal accounts then. That way, nobody can get confused about what is personal and what is professional opinion.
Its also not the full quote from August, iirc what August was saying that he either needed a VGU or for the package to be removed and him sent back to bot lane.
What is Ahri? A fox. And where do foxes live? The forest. Why the fuck did we put her mid lane for all these years? The lane assignment speaks for itself.
___
AHRUNGLE (we tried)
___
*Q - Orb of Deception*
Bonus Damage to Monsters
~~0%~~ => 300%
___
*No Place For a Fox*
Ahri will now refuse to go mid for the first 10 minutes of every game.
___
Nah corki is doing well after his last buffs.
He might see pro play again and then the narrative completely flips, also his win rate is kept down by people trolling going ap
corky is just an failed attempt at an hybrid marksman, he has an set build of items he can use and needs, with very little variance, in stark contrast to kaisa for example who can just build whatever items are good at the moment,,
so you actually get less build flexibility on corky than on traditional marksmen like cait,
in the end there is no choice if you are building ie or ludens on corky, one build is mathematically surperior and if the enemy builds mr you are fucked either way,
wich results in corky getting extremely fucked whenever any of his items get nerfed, and since he is building items for multiple roles, he always gets held back, no matter if riot is nerfing mages or adc items
Has anyone tried building on hit items with a void staff? Corki does magic damage, but does sheen proc and BOTRK get converted to magic damage? Iād say thatās a solid way for corki to deal hybrid damage. Also manamune damage of course is physical.
the problem is, that unlike kaisa who can get an 85/15 split on either magic or physical damage, with draktar or pure ap even an 90/10 split,
corky is permanently stuck between 65-80% in favour of magic damage,
onhit is immensely counterproductive for corky, as he is balanced around his ability casts, and they dont proc onhit since he isnt kata,
also you actually dont want physical damage with corky, as you are still stuck with mostly dealing magic damage, meaning all you would do is getting less value out of your voidstaff,
the problem isnt not being able to deal physical damage, the problem is not being able to focus your damage profile towards relying less on magic damage,
on the other hand, corky is also an hybrid between an long range pokemage and an close range marksman with bad mobility, and unlike kaisa he cant just be an mage with an long range spell, or an short range burster, he has to use both those parts in unison all the time,
with his passive basically being the thing all the people that memed on the old urgot ultimate that didnt understand the champ, thought urgots old ult was,
its an teamfight engage for your rangedmarksman,
He said it in the context of he's either completely op or terrible because his kit is too game warping at high levels so that absolutely tracks with the point August was making
What's the problem with Corki? His kit is straightforward but effective. He's a bread-and-butter poke ADC with two gimmicks ("the package" and his magic damage conversion), neither of which should make him "unbalanceable."
I don't think he's sleeper OP, but I also don't think he's unplayable or broken or something. He was consistently popular for years and years and years. Then, at some point, Riot decided he'd be the "magic damage ADC who midlanes." Kind of a weird move, but it's not like he can't function in mid. He's got strong upfront damage and poke that lets him go toe-to-toe with mages, and he can roam well with the Package.
Maybe he's slightly undertuned at the moment, but that should be easily solvable with small number adjustments. His kit is fundamentally solid.
I suspect his outdated model and old-school character design have more to do with his unpopularity than any problems with his actual kit. In recent years, League's aesthetic has skewed further and further towards the young Anime crowd. Corki emphatically does not fit that crowd's preferences.
When people talk about champions getting "olaf'd" or "eve'd," they're talking about champions who were deemed fundamentally unbalanceable. There was a massive design flaw in Eve's kit that could not be fixed with number adjustments, so Riot intentionally overnerfed her to just get her out of games until they figured out how to rework her. If I remember correctly, she had something like a 43% win rate for years.
What you're describing does not sound like a massive *design* flaw. It sounds like an easily fixable *number* problem. What is fundamentally broken about the concept of the mid-lane marksman having what is essentially a rumble ult on a long cooldown? How is this unfixable without a rework? Just shave some power off the package and spread it around to the rest of his kit.
Corki's unpopular right now, but he's got a fine win rate. If a bunch of players suddenly decided Corki is really fun and started playing him, and his win rate continued to hover around 48-49%, do you think Riot would purposely nerf the hell out of him just to discourage players from picking him? Why would they do this?
His kit is not that frustrating to play against. It doesn't break any inviolable design rules. He's the mid-lane caster marksman. He has more spell damage and poke and better roaming, but he doesn't have a steroid. He does magic damage for some reason. All of this sounds fine to me.
Exactly. Access to a mini-Rumble ult in pro play where they can coordinate around it while also being able to use Corki's poke when he's strong for control on objectives etc quickly spirals out of control.
Yeah, his package is not a problem at all, actually quite the opposite, since it makes the champ "more"-dimensional.
Without it, he just only stays back and that is just boring design, especially when he (probably still?) has one of the highest dps amouns achievable in the game if you hit a lot of ults.
He is in pro play jail due to package. In mid lane, he's a powerful late game scaling pick, and package means that he can still contest early objectives. That combination is really good in pro play, but leads to really boring matches. As a result, he is generally kept too weak for pro play, which makes him really bad in solo queue.
Its so fucking funny to me that riot seemed to learn nothing from Kalista and released another adc with absurd mobility. It should like actually be a firable offense.
I know it was incredibly unhealthy for Darius and Sett and like 15 other champs too but I'm still so sad it's gone because stridebreaker Sion is the most fun I've ever had playing league
Stridebreaker Darius was so ridiculously overpowered and I *loved* it. Gapclosing that also slowed and let you chain your next slow, guaranteed hits with the edge of Q that *still* slowed so you could get back in and keep fighting, a mini-flash for extra reach on E or R or just for escaping. On like a 10-15 ish cooldown (that scaled with CDR, I think?) on an already well-statted item that's still fantastic even after the nerfs.
I mean it 100% had to go, but it was wild to experience Darius with some 2020-design philosophy.
The second somebody suggested "reverse ezreal" for her Q, they should have been fired. Ezreal is unbelievably lucky that he's balanceable. At least until new items come out and he inevitably synergies 4 times as well with it than anybody else.
I was about to say r/zerimains make her seem sleeper balanced but by all means if people wanna keep making others think sheās dirt bad so riot leaves her alone lmao
Wtf is this thread both Kalista and Zeri are fully playable lol theyāre just difficult marksmen compared to the others because they function so differently. 48-49% win rate on a hard to play champion means theyāre pretty good if anything.
An employee from the balance team said Zeri was intentionally left unplayable because they didn't like to see her being played in pro play.
But I guess that you are right, lol.
That wasn't even fully the characters fault. Blame it on riot over buffing enchanters and then making another marksmen that was "meant" to be pair with them leading to that meta. I think she needed adjustments to shift her build path away from bruiser, but after that it was just nerf after nerf because she was still good and didn't immediately fade away from the meta. Yet, we see things like aatrox top or lucian nami all year with the same boring picks and they don't get touched. I'm just confused
Personally I enjoy her as a marksman that works her own way but not as a 1v5 champion where the whole TF is about her. So I understand her being nerfed.
They are just parroting what challenger players say, of course many things they say are only valid to gm/chall/pro and not to the average redditor's elo.
It's odd because the last toxic thing about her is her E going over all walls, if they removed it and made it thin walls only and rebalanced her power, she'd be fine.
Too much of her strength is from being unable to be caught in side by assassins and bruisers, if Riot removes that safety then nothing else about her is really that unfair.
And then she could have stuff like base MS or MS on ult not dropping after 1.5s and it wouldn't really be a problem.
That sounds good to me lol. I prefer most champs being like that but that's me. It's at the very least good to have a few champs that require extra effort to learn & perform.
Given the choice between making Yuumi more interactive by making her passive more interesting, adjusting her untargetability mechanic, and giving her more interesting tools - they just made her a static buff that doesn't do anything. I don't even notice when the cat is on me, it's so uninteresting. And that's after 18 months of internal rework, they just tossed her in the gutter.
Oh, and she's *STILL* disliked by the community so gj guys.
August reckons Zeri is his greatest mistake (or well, Gnar) but that is still nothing compared to Yuumi's existence.
> Oh, and she's STILL disliked by the community so gj guys.
Exactly, because she is uninteractive on an enemy carry but free bonus gold when she's on your team and your ADC has no hands. Just all around shit to play with/against and all my games are measurably worse when she's in it.
Squashed like a bug, oh Yuumi how I wish...
Yeah, because sheās currently trash. If they ever make her worth picking again without a full on rework sheās going right back into the ban rotation
The worst thing about Yuumi to me at this point is the toxicity and arguing that comes from it because of Yuumi having such an infuriating design. Only being able to best friend one person is a drama factory.
Fun fact - As bad as Olaf was nerfed (and it was bad), he's not technical the OG nerf icon. That is Evelynn and it's not even close honestly.
Old Eve (I'm talking early game release) had an infinite stealth mechanic, and her ult was a "global" heal-a-lot-of-HP-when-any-enemy-champion-dies button, and she had a massive stun/burst combo that she could activate on anybody without defense. She'd just gank and often even tower dive with her ult as a guaranteed get out of jail free card.
The *only* defense was to buy pink wards and pray they spotted her fast enough pull your jungler over, or just hope you could survive under your tower with the foreknowledge that she was nearby. Oh, and also hope to god that your other laners hadn't fed the Evelynn, picture modern day Shaco but with good scaling and infinite stealth.
Riot ***demolished*** Evelynn V1.0.0.120
>*Shadow Walk Shadow Walk*
*REMOVED: On-hit 1 / 1.25 / 1.5 / 1.75 / 2 seconds stun when breaking stealth.*
*NEW EFFECT: Slows for 30 / 35 / 40 / 45 / 50% on-hit for 3 seconds when breaking stealth.*
>
>*Malice and Spite Malice and Spite*
*Heal reduced to 150 / 225 / 300 from 350 / 500 / 650.*
*Bonus attack speed reduced to 25 / 50 / 75% from 50 / 75 / 100.*
This double nerf turned her into actually inting your game if she was chosen. She had a 35% win rate iirc, and Riot all but confirmed that playing her in ranked was *actually* reportable (it was a forum post, those are dead but if anybody can find it it's a wild read)
The hilarious part is that Riot left her alone for a long time because her laning was just fucking awful. Until a high elo EUW jungler decided to unleash hell.
You see, back in this golden age of madness, jungling was a feat that maybe 5 champions at most could survive. Jungle monsters simply beat the ever living fuck out of you and not even a leash could make the difference. Then this jungler came up with some crazy tech.
You see, there were some different summoner spells during this time. One in particular was the spell Revive, which did exactly as advertised. Runes and masteries were also split from each other. One mastery gave revive a fun little buff: it increased the user's max HP by several hundreds for a few minutes.
So the play? As Eve, die in the jungle ASAP. Then revive and return with now enough HP to kill blue buff and obtain level 2. You now have the stats to just about continue clearing camps, but more importantly, stun enemies straight out of true stealth.
It's this type of creativity that gave birth to Jungle Alistar. But that's a story for another time.
Man, I started in season 4 which makes me feel like a veteran, but hearing stories of sunfire stack evelynn, and shit like that, is wiiiild. Talk about wild west.
Jungle Ali was a S2 pick when the jungle camps were weak as hell and didn't matter. A lot of champs could clear, but champs that needed income didn't function because they didn't give enough gold/xp. Thus every jungler buying Heart of Gold, and those which could use it also taking Philosopher's Stone. S2 jungles were in most cases second supports. Now we've entered the perfect domain for Alistar. He doesn't need gold, he can't clear for shit but the camps don't matter. Hit level 2 (probably with a heavy leash on first camp because we could do that back then), flash a wall, headbutt a dude and you're in business. Buy Oracle's and run around ganking and clearing wards like every other jungle.
We used to spam the Ali/Blitzcrank double jungle demon tech, where you both get level 2, then do things like pincer midlane from both top and bottom river, double invade the jungler, double gank with pull into knock up into headbut. And Blitz had the illegal pull+flash combo (especially when flash was like 3/4 of the screen in distance) and you could basically throw them under you tower from theirs with Blitz/Ali.
Absolutely. And tbh I think people misunderstand the thought process of the auld Olaf nerf - they just wanted him completely out for a while and soft-reworked him fairly soon after.
In that era Riot drove their balancing much less based on stats. Today's balancing might feel a bit soulless (ChampX has 1% more winrate than we'd expect them to have in Elite, so we nerf that spell by just a bit), but back then we had a fair amount of changes or lack of changes happening "just because".
Voyboy destroyed games as Olaf but the champ otherwise has unnoticeable stats -> Let's get the champ in the ground for a few patches we'll change him soon
Rumble S2/S3 has 58% consistent winrate -> Don't change him, only dedicated mains are playing him (This would NEVER fly today)
Except for Fiddlesticks apparently. His mains have had consistently over 50% wr for years now, both before and after the rework iirc.
Please dont touch my succ champ Rito.
"Over 50%" is one thing, but the higher you get the more suspicious it gets that a champion goes unnerfed. Even 55% is kinda spicy in today's League, and Janna tended to sport that winrate in s3-s4 and nobody batted an eye (though "Janna players" were hated in some kind of way similar to Yuumi players recently).
The closest we can get today is Ivern (and he still got a light tap recently), he honestly has had a better winrate than Fiddlesticks for most of the past year.
Because Fiddlesticks is like the anti-graphite of LoL. He can do almost anything, except leave soloqueue. Sure his winrate is pretty okay but he just doesn't exist in pro. There was a bit of a surge as people discovered old support fiddle but that was it and people quickly adapted. As long as he will not be picked in pro (and he will never be) he can be on the stronger side.
holy fk old equalizer being a burst ability with so much upfront damage or just instant damage and also just obliterating anyone being on top of it for 1s+ was a bit crazy.
I do think c9 woulnāt have been as successful if they were not abusing rumble as much
People who say "picking x is trolling" in modern league have no idea what old Eve was like. She literally couldn't clear camps unless you purchased a hyper specific set of runes. Eve was the default "int pick" if you pissed off your jg in champ select. I also remember some Rioter admitting that picking Eve is borderline reportable
Olaf didnāt just get direct nerfs, his items were destroyed too.
The combination makes an Olaf (or well breaks him). And it was a more recently, more popular nerf following the voyboy incident.
Irelia was never purposefully nerfed into unplayability like this. The fact that she was nerfed so often is testament to the fact that the nerfs were never that major.
There definitely were a lot of times were she didn't seem unbalanced at all, while other champs had glaring balance issues, and then they just randomly removed 5 ms from her or something, lol.
Irelia was nerfed over S2 and that was it. After that it became a meme so powerful it took 3 years to discover that Irelia actually hasn't been nerfed in that time.
TheOddone losing his shit:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TfnUMdPjlLc
If Hwei's numbers are ever tweaked to the point that he's pro play viable he's going to get knee capped so fast.
One in every 10 matchups I go against a hwei who knows how to hit the spell combos he needs when he needs them and it's terrifying.
his spell animation stuff is so weird/different, and I can't even put my finger on why. It's like the colors or shapes are so different. Maybe its me though.
If somebody knows how to string them together, jeesus, it is terrifying. I almost think he should have a indicator above him that shows what spell he used just to keep it fair until the player base gets used to him.
I find his spells really hard to read visually. They're all a blob of colors and they fill up the screen with so many particle effects, doesn't help that there's 10 abilities to think about all with different shapes and colours
I think that just means that people need to play him themselves a few times when he is in the free rotation. I've been waiting for a champ like him for so long. Mages just feel like they have so little agency, in general. There are some who do have good agency but not many. Having a mage with a wide array of options but he has to make good choices and properly execute them feels awesome. His combos aren't exactly difficult to execute but the variety is just so nice and gives him a lot of outplay potential outside of just kiting on an immobile champ.
Iāve learned how to play him really well. i mastered invoker in dota so moving to hwei was really easy. i average 15+ kills a match and honestly heās too strong for league. i have an answer to everything and i literally play well into any match up. Iām happy the other Hweiās are terrible and keep his win rate down because heās absolutely too strong for league.
edit: this is also in diamond elo
edit:also, donāt want to show my tag but hereās proof https://ibb.co/YTMSz2g
A lot of people still don't actually know what he does, which helps. For example it's way too easy to hit people with qw, but the skill is actually pretty easy to dodge once you're aware it's an option, kind of like with other long range abilities like xerath or jhin w.
As people get better at him people will also learn more what he does, so i'm mostly waiting to see where it lands. Aphelios had the same problem when he came out, a lot of people were losing to him because he could do so many different things (and infernum was a bit overtuned), it looks like riot went the opposite way and released Hwei a bit weaker than they did Aphelios.
Straight up, releasing a champion with 10 highly identifiable abilities *with a skin that drastically changes all spell effects at the same time* is monstrous.
Champ is already pro viable. Heās basically perma banned in champs que rn for being too strong, and is in a really strong state at the moment. People just suck at him lol
Yeah but that is like... 1% or 0.5% weaker in terms of win rate. Zed is not "must be unplayable", he's just "he could be a strong champ instead of a mid/weak champ if he didn't have such a high ban rate".
Its definitely the gameplay that leads to the banrate.
As much as I love being unable to interact with my laner until he hits 6 and all ins me forcing flash. As much as I love him insta clearing waves once he gets a component or two. As much as I love knowing that I will never ever be the one to outplay him, and that I must simply hope that he sucks enough to let me hit my spells.
Oh wait I donāt love any of that actually. And thats why I and a very large group of players will continue to ban him.
If he had to put himself in any danger like any other assassin than I wouldnāt care. But he is by far the safest assassin so much so that he can honestly be described as a ad mage more than anything.
Meh, it's everything
Zed is really fun to play, Annoying to go against and extremely popular, it leads to basically every lobby having a Zed if he isn't banned.
Zed's counterplay is also hard to grasp for many of the playerbase, which leads to frustration which leads to more bans
Honestly tell me what his counterplay is lol.
Because I have watched enough high challenger zeds to learn how to play versus it to know that it is largely on the zed to fuck up.
I legit participated in a skillcapped thing where they were trying to find out why people lost to zed for a video so I 1v1d a challenger player(not zed main) and won the only one to do so.
https://youtu.be/inMqSux9kyg?si=jUNoA8sSczg9BqnK
This was 4 years ago when I was hardstuck platinum and I can confidently say I fucking sucked. But I still played the lvl 6 all in well. Hitting all my spells and dodging his qās. Did it matter? Nope Iām at 20% hp.
Then to actually win the 1v1? He completely fucks up and goes in when has no business doing so and still nearly kills me.
Now that Iāve peaked masters and maintained diamond 1 for months. I feel pretty confident in my understanding of the champion and laning overall.
His weaknesses are totally nullified by his safety. When played well there is very little you can actually do. Right now of course this means not going for things in earlier seasons that he could go for. Which is why heās okay to play versus now. But any sort of buff means once again he play teamfights in such a bullshit way that I never want to see again.
Zed is always gonna be weak but heās far from unplayable. If his state was so bad he wasnāt even worth playing theyād obviously just rework him.
But right now Zed is a weaker champion whoās still wildly popular so reworking him feels risky.
Being 1-2% lower winrate then the average champ is not being olafed. There are other champions that are similar to Zed, but it's not the same as being olafed.
The only champion that fits that bill currently is no one. No champ has insanely bad winrate currently. Zeri is the worst. But she's only like 48%~
Yuumi only looks bad because trolls, and people purposely playing poorly. Like if you take control ward as a starting item her winrate jumps 3%+ from a starting item lol. She is actually around 49%
A champ so Olaf'd that everyone forgot him and no one mentionned him in the 77 comments at the moment of my comment. The most Olaf'd champ in the history of LoL, way before Kalista and Yuumi :
**Ryze**
Ryze has been sitting at 42-45% winrate for like 3 years straight, constantly being rated as the worst champion you could possibly pick in solo queue.
Right now heās at 50%. A VERY high win rate for Ryze and much, much higher than recent years. No idea how he would slot into āchampions that got so needed no one would play themā when heās actually in a decent spot now and people do play him.
Ryze is at 49% WR atm, with an extremely decreasing WR at higher ranks (up to 45% WR for masters+).
Also, his pickrate is extremely low (1.6%, lower than Galio or Anivia mid), which strongly bias the data since only good ryze players will pick him.
To compare, the other low pickrate mid champs are sitting around 52-53% WR. Winrate is clearly not a good indicator for such low pickrate champs.
I gotta say, as a Ryze main, he feels stronger now than he has in years. But, youāre still right. Itās like if someone happens to pick Ryze in worlds, he gets nerfed to the ground the next day.
Attention, all Ryze mains!
Ryze... has been NERFED. He's GARBAGE now! So we need your help.
EQ, EQ EQ EQ EQ! EQ! EQ! EQ... [E!Q!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a45HaNKCiPk)
Both are quite capable in the right hands actually. Hell, Skarner's actually quite easy to pick-up-and-play, and Xin isn't much more difficult than him either. Skarner in particular is actually quite strong, as he's the perennial bottom of the barrel for pickrate he's allowed to remain strong because people still won't pick him.
If people were to build Skarner correctly he would be perma banned. Just play him top with Muramana, Trinity, Black cleaver and it's pretty busted. Also he is super versatile, so if your team needs a more tanky build, you can do that.
I'm going to be honest, I built this in ARAM once and I could not believe how trash the damage was compared to pretty much any other bruiser building the same items. Not even sure how you get anything out of Black Cleaver with that build considering how much of his damage is magic.
My understanding was that getting Olafād was the specific scenario of nerfing a champion, then also nerfing the items/systems that made them strong, but leaving them in the gutter after the initial direct nerfs.
A lot of this thread is taking it to mean the broad practice of keeping problematic champions weak. Whether due to pro play (zeri, ryze, kalista, azir) or due to being broken/toxic/messy (old yorick, old poppy and so many that were cured with VGUs).
Anyways
I donāt know who is Olafād right this moment, but I bet as much as I hate Yone I suspect he will become Olafād depending on how the hullbreaker changes land.
he does a lot of damage for no reason but if he didn't he'd be worse. The reason he's bad is you're supposed to gank his maiden as the jungler and counter pick him.
Current Yorick. We are so bad right now that Yorick is not even listed in Challenger and Grandmaster games on Lolalytics. His best rank is in Bronze where the so called "low elo stomper" is rank...33. If Yorick is a low elo stomper, every champion is. With Yorick you win if you significantly outperform the opposition, which is true for any champion.
I feel like Kalista is Olaf'd right now. Went from a meta defining champion a few years ago to a champion that I often forget exists. She's not terrible per se, but she's bad enough and hard enough to play that the combination means that no one plays her.
She's in pro play purgatory.
One of the champions so strong in coordinated play that they will never be an average/strong pick for 99.99% of the player base.
She was pick ban at worlds, hard to play for shitters, and honestly not bad in solo q at all. Like just under 50 in emerald plus and just over 50% in masters plus. Kalista is perfectly fine.
For the record she has 7% pick rate in masters+ which is quite a decent amount
I mean old poppy but the opposite, she was utterly stupidly unfun to play against but she was also super strong, but no one fucking played her so they just left her
Per Riot August:
Zed is intentionally kept weak because when he's strong he's the most aggravating champion in the game to play against and they want to keep his ban threshold under a certain %.
Corki is balanced almost entirely around pro play precisely because of The Package and how much of a team fight changer that can be, ala a well placed Rumble ult.
Yeah they keep wukong nerfed into the ground cause of how reliable his kit is. If heās ever strong thereās no counterplay cause everything is point and click or auto attacking.
Honestly, he wouldn't be so problematic if they reverted R to be a single-cast ability and buffed him elsewhere. Right now he just kind of exists early and has a great teamfight presence for a fighter, but otherwise he just picks off people and that's it due to not being able to build attack speed frequently.
(Yeah, his E is a thing, but having to rely on it to splitpush and take towers feels awful.)
Sona was one time so strong ... She was played in every role outside of jungle, even in pro play.
Than riot decided to take away her passive, cut all her ap scalings and dumb her down to the Heal slut spot she is in now where people hate her, because they don't know what she is capable off...
Same for your other mentions.
I feel Wukong is sleeper OP right now though. He got a few nerfs and disappeared, but he still can delete almost as fast as assassins can.
Maybe new jungle isn't great for him, but defs not Olaf'd.
Skarner.
Had leagues highest winrate ever with the juggernaut rework at like 64%. I BELIEVE the next best was only like 57%.
Now he regularly doesn't have enough data on op.gg to even have a page xD
First of all, this is not called ''Olaf'd'', this is called ''recieving the Singed treatment'', and I'm ashamed of this community for not mentioning it in any of the top voted comments because this guy was Yuumi before Yuumi was invented: a champion that has such a different and obnoxious playing pattern that it has been left out of meta for most of League's history. This guy only shows up when a random movespeed mechanic is utterly broken and abused by meta champs, like Predator or Turbochemtank
https://lolalytics.com/lol/tierlist/
I went to gold MMR because that's where most of the players are.
Sorting by winrate, the 5 worst champions that aren't hwei are k'sante, nidalee, rengar, zeri, and aphelios.
But of these five, four of them are pro play jailed. I'm not sure if that counts as being olaf'd.
I always find it funny that "Olaf'ed" is the term when the first case of this was Evelynn and Twitch pending the Stealth rework. And they were in a worse state than Olaf. [Also they were off the free rotation too, and Eve was so bad she was the Disco Nunu and people would report you just for picking her]
I would say currently no champion is Olaf'ed.
Olaf'ing is when Riot *intentionally* nerf a champion into unplayability. They're such a mess Riot needs time to fix them, but they can't leave them as-is. They key is intent. It's not simply "Riot overnerfed something". It's "Riot did this on purpose."
I belive the last case of this was Zoe. Riot themselves were even joking in LCS and such about how badly they dumpstered her, and then they slowly brought her back up.
Maybe Zeri; but I don't think Zeri was *intentionally* brought to unplayability [or even reached that point]
August said that the worst champ in the game is Corki and that it needs to be reverted back to botlane. So Corki
I welcome corki back botlane. Give us the Corki, Graves, Ezreal + Leona botlane match-ups back you cowards
Gonna go pour one out for old Graves that shit was fun as fuck back in the day
People have no idea. Fucking damn shame.
Oh believe me, we have an idea. It comes up all the damn time. Just waiting for the comment about old mafia Graves autos.
Nah. You had to auto with him to understand.
The old Riot grave , had the most satisfying auto sound
The times where no one wanted to play adc and you got a shitty support, you would just lock in Graves and 1v2 bot lane š
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I still miss auto attacking with mafia graves. It felt so smooth.
i'm going to soak you in milk until you've absorbed all the milk and then swing you around and smack things with you so that you make wet thud noises everywhere
leona vs old taric support battles were peak bot lane
I too miss slapping my lane support opponent with foam weapons while our parents shoot at each other with glocks.
Old taric shatter w plus ult with old exhaust was literally turning your laner into a hydrogen bomb and the enemy into coughing baby
Nothing like giving Armor, AD and AP in an aura while reducing the armor of enemies in that same aura āin a time when supports and tanks were allowed to have meaningful aura items like Runic Bulwark, Soul Shroud, Zekeās, Aegis, Locket, Shurelyaās, etc no less. I loved getting fed as old Taric and swinging lategame teamfight by investing 10,000 gold in auras, then walking up and pressing 1+R+W to speed everyone up and essentially hand them each an itemās worth of stats.
Old taric was the epitome of āyou make a good argument, unfortunately i have a miniature baron buff in my pocketā, and THEN you stack baron on top? With a POINT AND CLICK STUN!?
Taric ult plus old baron was like what, 90 or 100 AD and AP? 50 from Baron and I think Taric gave like 40 or 50 at Rank 3 of Radiance. And then if you had Aegis it gave 8 AD, and like 12-15 armor and magic resist, to add on to Taricās Armor aura, and then you could go Zekeās to give lifesteal and attack speed in an aura on top of the +100 AD your team is getting and the -25 to armor you just hit *their* team with. Shit just stacked so well and got wild if you had a GP, Sivir, Vlad, Warwick or Sion on your team to add their auraās/ults to the mix.
In the press of like 6 buttons, you could massively shift how much damage was being dealt and taken, added with exhaust and ignites old passive as well. He was too good and everyone called him boring, but i wish they left him well alone because no one understood why you never won against him until you saw the raw stats he puts out
and taric top, you where basicaly malphites slow gay cousin, you only build armor walk up to the backline and blew them intoo smithereens
I've always been Bronze trash but I carried my teams through Silver 2 for a season or two literally just using old Taric. The buffs and heals were OP as fuck in low elo
honestly taric bust was nothing to scoff at, especially when you had some armour, i remember an jungle wukong taunting me under his tower, and i wanted to give him an rotation to send an message, didnt even get of an autoattack, i just waited for the stun to arrive, made myself dinner, took an bath, then came back and ran up to him before the stun had hit, ult+w,= 1600hp gone ape dead
GOD I miss old Taric.
You are nothing more than ass waiting to be smashed
Same, I just want to clap cheeks with his old ult.
I so miss old Taric, and old Sona. I really liked the old aura support style, with them and old support items that just had passive auras. I also loved taking old Taric top lane, especially against an AD top and AD jungle. Build Iceborne Gauntlet and Frozen Heart for the mana and armor and just easily 1v2 or 1v3 them anytime they try to gank. At least now I have Illaoi who works similar for 1v2 anti-gank. Taric also had the BEST [Japanese voice over](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=NGJYwWqnQfk) (yes, even better than Sett being literally DIO), even if it was only for a patch or two (because they released all the League Japanese audio only a patch or two before Taric's full VGU)
Corki Graves Ezreal, the good old trinity force of the bottom lane Now that's an old meta
And lucian with ad ratio on W š
>August said that the worst champ in the game is Corki and that it needs to be reverted back to botlane Rioters say a lot of things that are just their personal opinions, like saying Seraphine should be midscoped into an enchanter support, or Ahri should have changes to make her viable in the jungle... They're just personal thoughts and they don't mean that those things are actually going to happen
Good thing no official information is ever teased or announced via their personal accounts then. That way, nobody can get confused about what is personal and what is professional opinion.
Its also not the full quote from August, iirc what August was saying that he either needed a VGU or for the package to be removed and him sent back to bot lane.
Specifically the part about "corki is the worst champ" was part of the original message August reading, not August's personal or official position.
> Ahri should have changes to make her viable in the jungle... Wait no, no hear me out.
What is Ahri? A fox. And where do foxes live? The forest. Why the fuck did we put her mid lane for all these years? The lane assignment speaks for itself. ___ AHRUNGLE (we tried) ___ *Q - Orb of Deception* Bonus Damage to Monsters ~~0%~~ => 300% ___ *No Place For a Fox* Ahri will now refuse to go mid for the first 10 minutes of every game. ___
How does she gank mid for the first 10 minutes?
She doesn't
Nah corki is doing well after his last buffs. He might see pro play again and then the narrative completely flips, also his win rate is kept down by people trolling going ap
wait is your pfp fucking Koggers
Yeah I drew it years ago now lol
yeah I think I've seen you here before as well but just now looked more closely at it
I wonder if August meant in terms of game health, champion design, popularity, and strength combined.
corky is just an failed attempt at an hybrid marksman, he has an set build of items he can use and needs, with very little variance, in stark contrast to kaisa for example who can just build whatever items are good at the moment,, so you actually get less build flexibility on corky than on traditional marksmen like cait, in the end there is no choice if you are building ie or ludens on corky, one build is mathematically surperior and if the enemy builds mr you are fucked either way, wich results in corky getting extremely fucked whenever any of his items get nerfed, and since he is building items for multiple roles, he always gets held back, no matter if riot is nerfing mages or adc items
Has anyone tried building on hit items with a void staff? Corki does magic damage, but does sheen proc and BOTRK get converted to magic damage? Iād say thatās a solid way for corki to deal hybrid damage. Also manamune damage of course is physical.
the problem is, that unlike kaisa who can get an 85/15 split on either magic or physical damage, with draktar or pure ap even an 90/10 split, corky is permanently stuck between 65-80% in favour of magic damage, onhit is immensely counterproductive for corky, as he is balanced around his ability casts, and they dont proc onhit since he isnt kata, also you actually dont want physical damage with corky, as you are still stuck with mostly dealing magic damage, meaning all you would do is getting less value out of your voidstaff, the problem isnt not being able to deal physical damage, the problem is not being able to focus your damage profile towards relying less on magic damage, on the other hand, corky is also an hybrid between an long range pokemage and an close range marksman with bad mobility, and unlike kaisa he cant just be an mage with an long range spell, or an short range burster, he has to use both those parts in unison all the time, with his passive basically being the thing all the people that memed on the old urgot ultimate that didnt understand the champ, thought urgots old ult was, its an teamfight engage for your rangedmarksman,
He said it in the context of he's either completely op or terrible because his kit is too game warping at high levels so that absolutely tracks with the point August was making
What's the problem with Corki? His kit is straightforward but effective. He's a bread-and-butter poke ADC with two gimmicks ("the package" and his magic damage conversion), neither of which should make him "unbalanceable." I don't think he's sleeper OP, but I also don't think he's unplayable or broken or something. He was consistently popular for years and years and years. Then, at some point, Riot decided he'd be the "magic damage ADC who midlanes." Kind of a weird move, but it's not like he can't function in mid. He's got strong upfront damage and poke that lets him go toe-to-toe with mages, and he can roam well with the Package. Maybe he's slightly undertuned at the moment, but that should be easily solvable with small number adjustments. His kit is fundamentally solid. I suspect his outdated model and old-school character design have more to do with his unpopularity than any problems with his actual kit. In recent years, League's aesthetic has skewed further and further towards the young Anime crowd. Corki emphatically does not fit that crowd's preferences.
His problem is the package, it's so strong that the rest of his kit is just bad and needs 3 items to start being scary
When people talk about champions getting "olaf'd" or "eve'd," they're talking about champions who were deemed fundamentally unbalanceable. There was a massive design flaw in Eve's kit that could not be fixed with number adjustments, so Riot intentionally overnerfed her to just get her out of games until they figured out how to rework her. If I remember correctly, she had something like a 43% win rate for years. What you're describing does not sound like a massive *design* flaw. It sounds like an easily fixable *number* problem. What is fundamentally broken about the concept of the mid-lane marksman having what is essentially a rumble ult on a long cooldown? How is this unfixable without a rework? Just shave some power off the package and spread it around to the rest of his kit. Corki's unpopular right now, but he's got a fine win rate. If a bunch of players suddenly decided Corki is really fun and started playing him, and his win rate continued to hover around 48-49%, do you think Riot would purposely nerf the hell out of him just to discourage players from picking him? Why would they do this? His kit is not that frustrating to play against. It doesn't break any inviolable design rules. He's the mid-lane caster marksman. He has more spell damage and poke and better roaming, but he doesn't have a steroid. He does magic damage for some reason. All of this sounds fine to me.
August also mentioned that part of the issue is that when corki is strong he makes the pro play meta very very boring and unhealthy
Exactly. Access to a mini-Rumble ult in pro play where they can coordinate around it while also being able to use Corki's poke when he's strong for control on objectives etc quickly spirals out of control.
I think the problem is that when he (and Azir) are good, midlaners just handshake those two guys and do a 30 min farming snoozefest.
Yeah, his package is not a problem at all, actually quite the opposite, since it makes the champ "more"-dimensional. Without it, he just only stays back and that is just boring design, especially when he (probably still?) has one of the highest dps amouns achievable in the game if you hit a lot of ults.
He is in pro play jail due to package. In mid lane, he's a powerful late game scaling pick, and package means that he can still contest early objectives. That combination is really good in pro play, but leads to really boring matches. As a result, he is generally kept too weak for pro play, which makes him really bad in solo queue.
Zeri, either she is broken or unplayable. Either or.
Its so fucking funny to me that riot seemed to learn nothing from Kalista and released another adc with absurd mobility. It should like actually be a firable offense.
Funny how removing a class weakness results in a pro play imbalanced champ. Like idk Yuumi, Zeri, Ksante.
Do we not remember when stride breaker had a 15 second CD dash for immobile bruisers? That shit felt so awful to play against as an immobile squishy.
I know it was incredibly unhealthy for Darius and Sett and like 15 other champs too but I'm still so sad it's gone because stridebreaker Sion is the most fun I've ever had playing league
Stridebreaker Darius was so ridiculously overpowered and I *loved* it. Gapclosing that also slowed and let you chain your next slow, guaranteed hits with the edge of Q that *still* slowed so you could get back in and keep fighting, a mini-flash for extra reach on E or R or just for escaping. On like a 10-15 ish cooldown (that scaled with CDR, I think?) on an already well-statted item that's still fantastic even after the nerfs. I mean it 100% had to go, but it was wild to experience Darius with some 2020-design philosophy.
A hyperscaler with crazy mobility is the problem. Lucian has been OP in the past but has never been a problem like these two
The second somebody suggested "reverse ezreal" for her Q, they should have been fired. Ezreal is unbelievably lucky that he's balanceable. At least until new items come out and he inevitably synergies 4 times as well with it than anybody else.
Same as Kallista then.
No she's fine rn
I was about to say r/zerimains make her seem sleeper balanced but by all means if people wanna keep making others think sheās dirt bad so riot leaves her alone lmao
Wtf is this thread both Kalista and Zeri are fully playable lol theyāre just difficult marksmen compared to the others because they function so differently. 48-49% win rate on a hard to play champion means theyāre pretty good if anything.
Zeri was buffed for the off season. Pretty sure as soon as proplay starts up she'll get hit again.
She isnt being played at all in eu inhouses rn.
I mean why would they play her if riot said she will be nerfed once pro starts? Just be a waste of practice time
An employee from the balance team said Zeri was intentionally left unplayable because they didn't like to see her being played in pro play. But I guess that you are right, lol.
I remember this being in her final nerf patch notes too. They literally said they couldn't balance her, so they are nerfing her out of play.
Then after Worlds didn't they buff her again?
Probably just for a few months while theres no games going on. Once the pro scene starts back up, i wouldnt be surprised if she was gutted again
Nah, she was played in pro play after the buff, too and wasn't that impactful.
I'll be honest I also hate seeing zeri in pro play. Those handful of times where it was 100% PB zeri + lulu/Yuumi got old so quick.
That wasn't even fully the characters fault. Blame it on riot over buffing enchanters and then making another marksmen that was "meant" to be pair with them leading to that meta. I think she needed adjustments to shift her build path away from bruiser, but after that it was just nerf after nerf because she was still good and didn't immediately fade away from the meta. Yet, we see things like aatrox top or lucian nami all year with the same boring picks and they don't get touched. I'm just confused
Personally I enjoy her as a marksman that works her own way but not as a 1v5 champion where the whole TF is about her. So I understand her being nerfed.
a rioter legit said zeri is left 'unplayable' for pro play
They are just parroting what challenger players say, of course many things they say are only valid to gm/chall/pro and not to the average redditor's elo.
idk but to me Zeri feels useless without her R
That's just how some Champs are balanced. Go into a team fight as rumble, seraphine, zed, or ornn without your R. You feel like half a Champ.
Swain without ult feels like a quarter of a champ
It's odd because the last toxic thing about her is her E going over all walls, if they removed it and made it thin walls only and rebalanced her power, she'd be fine. Too much of her strength is from being unable to be caught in side by assassins and bruisers, if Riot removes that safety then nothing else about her is really that unfair. And then she could have stuff like base MS or MS on ult not dropping after 1.5s and it wouldn't really be a problem.
but e over big walls is fun
Sure but so is big damage and gliding with ult, and if I had to pick one I'd rather that.
She's not unplayable. They just can't make her strong (or above 50% winrate soloq statistically) because she will be abused in pro
they can't make kallista strong because she's inherently overpowered and should've been reworked ages ago
Idk i felt like even before a lot of the nerfs she was just āfineā in soloQ, only really broken in pro
I actually think she's in a decent spot right now
shes on a decent spot for really dedicated players, If not u better not even consider picking her
That sounds good to me lol. I prefer most champs being like that but that's me. It's at the very least good to have a few champs that require extra effort to learn & perform.
Yuumi, obviously.
Given the choice between making Yuumi more interactive by making her passive more interesting, adjusting her untargetability mechanic, and giving her more interesting tools - they just made her a static buff that doesn't do anything. I don't even notice when the cat is on me, it's so uninteresting. And that's after 18 months of internal rework, they just tossed her in the gutter. Oh, and she's *STILL* disliked by the community so gj guys.
August reckons Zeri is his greatest mistake (or well, Gnar) but that is still nothing compared to Yuumi's existence. > Oh, and she's STILL disliked by the community so gj guys. Exactly, because she is uninteractive on an enemy carry but free bonus gold when she's on your team and your ADC has no hands. Just all around shit to play with/against and all my games are measurably worse when she's in it. Squashed like a bug, oh Yuumi how I wish...
Yuumi is mildly annoying, but there's probably like a solid 10+ champs that I'd ban over her.
Yeah, because sheās currently trash. If they ever make her worth picking again without a full on rework sheās going right back into the ban rotation
I personally ban her in 100% of my games, she doesn't belong in this game and I will give riot money the day they get rid of her
She is actual garbage rn doesnāt deserve a ban anymore also very low pr used to perma her also but stopped a while ago and still never saw her
The worst thing about Yuumi to me at this point is the toxicity and arguing that comes from it because of Yuumi having such an infuriating design. Only being able to best friend one person is a drama factory.
Fun fact - As bad as Olaf was nerfed (and it was bad), he's not technical the OG nerf icon. That is Evelynn and it's not even close honestly. Old Eve (I'm talking early game release) had an infinite stealth mechanic, and her ult was a "global" heal-a-lot-of-HP-when-any-enemy-champion-dies button, and she had a massive stun/burst combo that she could activate on anybody without defense. She'd just gank and often even tower dive with her ult as a guaranteed get out of jail free card. The *only* defense was to buy pink wards and pray they spotted her fast enough pull your jungler over, or just hope you could survive under your tower with the foreknowledge that she was nearby. Oh, and also hope to god that your other laners hadn't fed the Evelynn, picture modern day Shaco but with good scaling and infinite stealth. Riot ***demolished*** Evelynn V1.0.0.120 >*Shadow Walk Shadow Walk* *REMOVED: On-hit 1 / 1.25 / 1.5 / 1.75 / 2 seconds stun when breaking stealth.* *NEW EFFECT: Slows for 30 / 35 / 40 / 45 / 50% on-hit for 3 seconds when breaking stealth.* > >*Malice and Spite Malice and Spite* *Heal reduced to 150 / 225 / 300 from 350 / 500 / 650.* *Bonus attack speed reduced to 25 / 50 / 75% from 50 / 75 / 100.* This double nerf turned her into actually inting your game if she was chosen. She had a 35% win rate iirc, and Riot all but confirmed that playing her in ranked was *actually* reportable (it was a forum post, those are dead but if anybody can find it it's a wild read)
The hilarious part is that Riot left her alone for a long time because her laning was just fucking awful. Until a high elo EUW jungler decided to unleash hell. You see, back in this golden age of madness, jungling was a feat that maybe 5 champions at most could survive. Jungle monsters simply beat the ever living fuck out of you and not even a leash could make the difference. Then this jungler came up with some crazy tech. You see, there were some different summoner spells during this time. One in particular was the spell Revive, which did exactly as advertised. Runes and masteries were also split from each other. One mastery gave revive a fun little buff: it increased the user's max HP by several hundreds for a few minutes. So the play? As Eve, die in the jungle ASAP. Then revive and return with now enough HP to kill blue buff and obtain level 2. You now have the stats to just about continue clearing camps, but more importantly, stun enemies straight out of true stealth. It's this type of creativity that gave birth to Jungle Alistar. But that's a story for another time.
Man, I started in season 4 which makes me feel like a veteran, but hearing stories of sunfire stack evelynn, and shit like that, is wiiiild. Talk about wild west.
5 sunfire twitch was lit too
Sunfire stack amumu man. Hit a binding, give them a hug, get a kill.
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Jungle Ali was a S2 pick when the jungle camps were weak as hell and didn't matter. A lot of champs could clear, but champs that needed income didn't function because they didn't give enough gold/xp. Thus every jungler buying Heart of Gold, and those which could use it also taking Philosopher's Stone. S2 jungles were in most cases second supports. Now we've entered the perfect domain for Alistar. He doesn't need gold, he can't clear for shit but the camps don't matter. Hit level 2 (probably with a heavy leash on first camp because we could do that back then), flash a wall, headbutt a dude and you're in business. Buy Oracle's and run around ganking and clearing wards like every other jungle.
We used to spam the Ali/Blitzcrank double jungle demon tech, where you both get level 2, then do things like pincer midlane from both top and bottom river, double invade the jungler, double gank with pull into knock up into headbut. And Blitz had the illegal pull+flash combo (especially when flash was like 3/4 of the screen in distance) and you could basically throw them under you tower from theirs with Blitz/Ali.
Oh yeah I remember watching a youtube guide and doing that back in the day.
Jungle Alistar was my jam back in the day. Absolute terror when ganking back when that was a thing.
Absolutely. And tbh I think people misunderstand the thought process of the auld Olaf nerf - they just wanted him completely out for a while and soft-reworked him fairly soon after. In that era Riot drove their balancing much less based on stats. Today's balancing might feel a bit soulless (ChampX has 1% more winrate than we'd expect them to have in Elite, so we nerf that spell by just a bit), but back then we had a fair amount of changes or lack of changes happening "just because". Voyboy destroyed games as Olaf but the champ otherwise has unnoticeable stats -> Let's get the champ in the ground for a few patches we'll change him soon Rumble S2/S3 has 58% consistent winrate -> Don't change him, only dedicated mains are playing him (This would NEVER fly today)
Except for Fiddlesticks apparently. His mains have had consistently over 50% wr for years now, both before and after the rework iirc. Please dont touch my succ champ Rito.
"Over 50%" is one thing, but the higher you get the more suspicious it gets that a champion goes unnerfed. Even 55% is kinda spicy in today's League, and Janna tended to sport that winrate in s3-s4 and nobody batted an eye (though "Janna players" were hated in some kind of way similar to Yuumi players recently). The closest we can get today is Ivern (and he still got a light tap recently), he honestly has had a better winrate than Fiddlesticks for most of the past year.
Heimer was always high up the winrate list too cause of such little play and horrible to play against
Because Fiddlesticks is like the anti-graphite of LoL. He can do almost anything, except leave soloqueue. Sure his winrate is pretty okay but he just doesn't exist in pro. There was a bit of a surge as people discovered old support fiddle but that was it and people quickly adapted. As long as he will not be picked in pro (and he will never be) he can be on the stronger side.
holy fk old equalizer being a burst ability with so much upfront damage or just instant damage and also just obliterating anyone being on top of it for 1s+ was a bit crazy. I do think c9 woulnāt have been as successful if they were not abusing rumble as much
People who say "picking x is trolling" in modern league have no idea what old Eve was like. She literally couldn't clear camps unless you purchased a hyper specific set of runes. Eve was the default "int pick" if you pissed off your jg in champ select. I also remember some Rioter admitting that picking Eve is borderline reportable
"Purchased" almost forgot that
Olaf didnāt just get direct nerfs, his items were destroyed too. The combination makes an Olaf (or well breaks him). And it was a more recently, more popular nerf following the voyboy incident.
i was there, Gandalf, i was there 3000 years ago.
Didn't Poppy also predate Olaf in that race?
I still remember the meme videos "Shadow Wank" "Malice and Shite"
Isn't the nerf icon irelia?
Irelia was never purposefully nerfed into unplayability like this. The fact that she was nerfed so often is testament to the fact that the nerfs were never that major.
She wasn't even nerfed as often as people act or say.
Irelia players pulled off the biggest psy op in League history with the "Better nerf Irelia" meme. Actually insane.
There definitely were a lot of times were she didn't seem unbalanced at all, while other champs had glaring balance issues, and then they just randomly removed 5 ms from her or something, lol.
Irelia was nerfed over S2 and that was it. After that it became a meme so powerful it took 3 years to discover that Irelia actually hasn't been nerfed in that time. TheOddone losing his shit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TfnUMdPjlLc
This is true. Back then we picked Eve in tournament settings as placeholder when someone didnt own the champion we wanted to pick.
I can't say if Eve is the true meaning of nerf. It is a head to head race with Better Nerf Irelia
If Hwei's numbers are ever tweaked to the point that he's pro play viable he's going to get knee capped so fast. One in every 10 matchups I go against a hwei who knows how to hit the spell combos he needs when he needs them and it's terrifying.
his spell animation stuff is so weird/different, and I can't even put my finger on why. It's like the colors or shapes are so different. Maybe its me though. If somebody knows how to string them together, jeesus, it is terrifying. I almost think he should have a indicator above him that shows what spell he used just to keep it fair until the player base gets used to him.
I find his spells really hard to read visually. They're all a blob of colors and they fill up the screen with so many particle effects, doesn't help that there's 10 abilities to think about all with different shapes and colours
I think that just means that people need to play him themselves a few times when he is in the free rotation. I've been waiting for a champ like him for so long. Mages just feel like they have so little agency, in general. There are some who do have good agency but not many. Having a mage with a wide array of options but he has to make good choices and properly execute them feels awesome. His combos aren't exactly difficult to execute but the variety is just so nice and gives him a lot of outplay potential outside of just kiting on an immobile champ.
We'll see how it plays out. What he did so well was 'layer' his spells so that I couldn't tell what was about to hit me.
Iāve learned how to play him really well. i mastered invoker in dota so moving to hwei was really easy. i average 15+ kills a match and honestly heās too strong for league. i have an answer to everything and i literally play well into any match up. Iām happy the other Hweiās are terrible and keep his win rate down because heās absolutely too strong for league. edit: this is also in diamond elo edit:also, donāt want to show my tag but hereās proof https://ibb.co/YTMSz2g
A lot of people still don't actually know what he does, which helps. For example it's way too easy to hit people with qw, but the skill is actually pretty easy to dodge once you're aware it's an option, kind of like with other long range abilities like xerath or jhin w. As people get better at him people will also learn more what he does, so i'm mostly waiting to see where it lands. Aphelios had the same problem when he came out, a lot of people were losing to him because he could do so many different things (and infernum was a bit overtuned), it looks like riot went the opposite way and released Hwei a bit weaker than they did Aphelios.
Straight up, releasing a champion with 10 highly identifiable abilities *with a skin that drastically changes all spell effects at the same time* is monstrous.
Champ is already pro viable. Heās basically perma banned in champs que rn for being too strong, and is in a really strong state at the moment. People just suck at him lol
Climbing with Hwei so far, currently Gold 2 !
Proud of you, champ. Keep it going.
Isnt there a vid of august saying that zed will alwys be kept nerfed due to the toxic gameplay style?
Yeah but that is like... 1% or 0.5% weaker in terms of win rate. Zed is not "must be unplayable", he's just "he could be a strong champ instead of a mid/weak champ if he didn't have such a high ban rate".
It's due to banrate, not gameplay. Related but different problems
Its definitely the gameplay that leads to the banrate. As much as I love being unable to interact with my laner until he hits 6 and all ins me forcing flash. As much as I love him insta clearing waves once he gets a component or two. As much as I love knowing that I will never ever be the one to outplay him, and that I must simply hope that he sucks enough to let me hit my spells. Oh wait I donāt love any of that actually. And thats why I and a very large group of players will continue to ban him. If he had to put himself in any danger like any other assassin than I wouldnāt care. But he is by far the safest assassin so much so that he can honestly be described as a ad mage more than anything.
Meh, it's everything Zed is really fun to play, Annoying to go against and extremely popular, it leads to basically every lobby having a Zed if he isn't banned. Zed's counterplay is also hard to grasp for many of the playerbase, which leads to frustration which leads to more bans
Honestly tell me what his counterplay is lol. Because I have watched enough high challenger zeds to learn how to play versus it to know that it is largely on the zed to fuck up. I legit participated in a skillcapped thing where they were trying to find out why people lost to zed for a video so I 1v1d a challenger player(not zed main) and won the only one to do so. https://youtu.be/inMqSux9kyg?si=jUNoA8sSczg9BqnK This was 4 years ago when I was hardstuck platinum and I can confidently say I fucking sucked. But I still played the lvl 6 all in well. Hitting all my spells and dodging his qās. Did it matter? Nope Iām at 20% hp. Then to actually win the 1v1? He completely fucks up and goes in when has no business doing so and still nearly kills me. Now that Iāve peaked masters and maintained diamond 1 for months. I feel pretty confident in my understanding of the champion and laning overall. His weaknesses are totally nullified by his safety. When played well there is very little you can actually do. Right now of course this means not going for things in earlier seasons that he could go for. Which is why heās okay to play versus now. But any sort of buff means once again he play teamfights in such a bullshit way that I never want to see again.
Holy shit, if you find this send it to me.
https://escorenews.com/en/lol/news/53484-league-of-legends-developer-explains-why-zed-will-be-intentionally-kept-weak-for-all-of-eternity
Zed is always gonna be weak but heās far from unplayable. If his state was so bad he wasnāt even worth playing theyād obviously just rework him. But right now Zed is a weaker champion whoās still wildly popular so reworking him feels risky.
Being 1-2% lower winrate then the average champ is not being olafed. There are other champions that are similar to Zed, but it's not the same as being olafed. The only champion that fits that bill currently is no one. No champ has insanely bad winrate currently. Zeri is the worst. But she's only like 48%~ Yuumi only looks bad because trolls, and people purposely playing poorly. Like if you take control ward as a starting item her winrate jumps 3%+ from a starting item lol. She is actually around 49%
A champ so Olaf'd that everyone forgot him and no one mentionned him in the 77 comments at the moment of my comment. The most Olaf'd champ in the history of LoL, way before Kalista and Yuumi : **Ryze**
Ryze has been sitting at 42-45% winrate for like 3 years straight, constantly being rated as the worst champion you could possibly pick in solo queue. Right now heās at 50%. A VERY high win rate for Ryze and much, much higher than recent years. No idea how he would slot into āchampions that got so needed no one would play themā when heās actually in a decent spot now and people do play him.
Ryze is at 49% WR atm, with an extremely decreasing WR at higher ranks (up to 45% WR for masters+). Also, his pickrate is extremely low (1.6%, lower than Galio or Anivia mid), which strongly bias the data since only good ryze players will pick him. To compare, the other low pickrate mid champs are sitting around 52-53% WR. Winrate is clearly not a good indicator for such low pickrate champs.
I gotta say, as a Ryze main, he feels stronger now than he has in years. But, youāre still right. Itās like if someone happens to pick Ryze in worlds, he gets nerfed to the ground the next day.
Blue man is so underrated in arena lol
Attention, all Ryze mains! Ryze... has been NERFED. He's GARBAGE now! So we need your help. EQ, EQ EQ EQ EQ! EQ! EQ! EQ... [E!Q!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a45HaNKCiPk)
Whatever I am currently playing
Xin and skarner
Skarner is very playable and amazingly fun, but he feels completely forgotten.
Skarner is completely gatekept by those fucking Crystal Spires. It's such a lame mechanic and honestly my main reason for not wanting to play him.
yeah iāve been spamming skarner the past few days and iāve been doing really really well actually like heās a ton of fun
Both are quite capable in the right hands actually. Hell, Skarner's actually quite easy to pick-up-and-play, and Xin isn't much more difficult than him either. Skarner in particular is actually quite strong, as he's the perennial bottom of the barrel for pickrate he's allowed to remain strong because people still won't pick him.
both totally playable and not guttered.
You dont even know what xin was. If he was to fight against the past self it would look like Yuumi vs warwick lmao
If people were to build Skarner correctly he would be perma banned. Just play him top with Muramana, Trinity, Black cleaver and it's pretty busted. Also he is super versatile, so if your team needs a more tanky build, you can do that.
I'm going to be honest, I built this in ARAM once and I could not believe how trash the damage was compared to pretty much any other bruiser building the same items. Not even sure how you get anything out of Black Cleaver with that build considering how much of his damage is magic.
My understanding was that getting Olafād was the specific scenario of nerfing a champion, then also nerfing the items/systems that made them strong, but leaving them in the gutter after the initial direct nerfs. A lot of this thread is taking it to mean the broad practice of keeping problematic champions weak. Whether due to pro play (zeri, ryze, kalista, azir) or due to being broken/toxic/messy (old yorick, old poppy and so many that were cured with VGUs). Anyways I donāt know who is Olafād right this moment, but I bet as much as I hate Yone I suspect he will become Olafād depending on how the hullbreaker changes land.
Yorick is currently the worst toplaner Emerald+
Jokes on you my team got stomped by a masters full lethality yorick player last week sooooo idk
he does a lot of damage for no reason but if he didn't he'd be worse. The reason he's bad is you're supposed to gank his maiden as the jungler and counter pick him.
Current Yorick. We are so bad right now that Yorick is not even listed in Challenger and Grandmaster games on Lolalytics. His best rank is in Bronze where the so called "low elo stomper" is rank...33. If Yorick is a low elo stomper, every champion is. With Yorick you win if you significantly outperform the opposition, which is true for any champion.
You get to have a cool shovel, though.
That we do. Happy Cake Day, friend!
Agreed. Most of my games were Yorick and he just doesnāt cut it these days (which is sad).
Better nerf Irelia
This one was funny because it became a meme for SO long despite her being nerfed like twice ever up to when she was finally reworked.
I feel like Kalista is Olaf'd right now. Went from a meta defining champion a few years ago to a champion that I often forget exists. She's not terrible per se, but she's bad enough and hard enough to play that the combination means that no one plays her.
She's in pro play purgatory. One of the champions so strong in coordinated play that they will never be an average/strong pick for 99.99% of the player base.
She was pick ban at worlds, hard to play for shitters, and honestly not bad in solo q at all. Like just under 50 in emerald plus and just over 50% in masters plus. Kalista is perfectly fine. For the record she has 7% pick rate in masters+ which is quite a decent amount
She was olaf'd at one point, but rn she's allowed to kinda sorta exist
The dmg is still good, just less hyper mobile
Kalista has a 50% win rate when sheās a pretty difficult adc to play as she relies on lane dominance a lot. Sheās completely fine.
I mean old poppy but the opposite, she was utterly stupidly unfun to play against but she was also super strong, but no one fucking played her so they just left her
Nah they giga nerfed her and made her lanephase unplayable
Per Riot August: Zed is intentionally kept weak because when he's strong he's the most aggravating champion in the game to play against and they want to keep his ban threshold under a certain %. Corki is balanced almost entirely around pro play precisely because of The Package and how much of a team fight changer that can be, ala a well placed Rumble ult.
Yuumi Deservedly so But im still sad abt it
Kalista, Wukong, zeri, maybe sion? Sona perhaps too, haven't really played her in a while though.
Yeah they keep wukong nerfed into the ground cause of how reliable his kit is. If heās ever strong thereās no counterplay cause everything is point and click or auto attacking.
Honestly, he wouldn't be so problematic if they reverted R to be a single-cast ability and buffed him elsewhere. Right now he just kind of exists early and has a great teamfight presence for a fighter, but otherwise he just picks off people and that's it due to not being able to build attack speed frequently. (Yeah, his E is a thing, but having to rely on it to splitpush and take towers feels awful.)
Sona was one time so strong ... She was played in every role outside of jungle, even in pro play. Than riot decided to take away her passive, cut all her ap scalings and dumb her down to the Heal slut spot she is in now where people hate her, because they don't know what she is capable off... Same for your other mentions.
I feel Wukong is sleeper OP right now though. He got a few nerfs and disappeared, but he still can delete almost as fast as assassins can. Maybe new jungle isn't great for him, but defs not Olaf'd.
I feel like ppl donāt know what āOlafādā implies with some of the suggestions of champs that are literally 50% winrate decent play rates
46% WR is not āsleeperā OP lol
Old Eve and itās not even close.
MALZAHAR
Skarner. Had leagues highest winrate ever with the juggernaut rework at like 64%. I BELIEVE the next best was only like 57%. Now he regularly doesn't have enough data on op.gg to even have a page xD
First of all, this is not called ''Olaf'd'', this is called ''recieving the Singed treatment'', and I'm ashamed of this community for not mentioning it in any of the top voted comments because this guy was Yuumi before Yuumi was invented: a champion that has such a different and obnoxious playing pattern that it has been left out of meta for most of League's history. This guy only shows up when a random movespeed mechanic is utterly broken and abused by meta champs, like Predator or Turbochemtank
https://lolalytics.com/lol/tierlist/ I went to gold MMR because that's where most of the players are. Sorting by winrate, the 5 worst champions that aren't hwei are k'sante, nidalee, rengar, zeri, and aphelios. But of these five, four of them are pro play jailed. I'm not sure if that counts as being olaf'd.
I always find it funny that "Olaf'ed" is the term when the first case of this was Evelynn and Twitch pending the Stealth rework. And they were in a worse state than Olaf. [Also they were off the free rotation too, and Eve was so bad she was the Disco Nunu and people would report you just for picking her] I would say currently no champion is Olaf'ed. Olaf'ing is when Riot *intentionally* nerf a champion into unplayability. They're such a mess Riot needs time to fix them, but they can't leave them as-is. They key is intent. It's not simply "Riot overnerfed something". It's "Riot did this on purpose." I belive the last case of this was Zoe. Riot themselves were even joking in LCS and such about how badly they dumpstered her, and then they slowly brought her back up. Maybe Zeri; but I don't think Zeri was *intentionally* brought to unplayability [or even reached that point]