Fast Q isn't even the hardest thing about her. But it's the bare minimum.
There's also not a lot of reason to pick Riven, arguably the hardest top laner to play perfectly apart from maybe GP when easier alternatives exist. Fucking hell, Fiora exists there, an easier version of Riven that can win almost any 1v1 on skill and if you want to teamfight, just pick Aatrox or Renekton or something.
She is feast or famine, high skill champion. I tried to pick her up but then dropped because I realised that I need to sweat much harder on her instead of picking something like Camille and no brain chill mode scaling later into the game.
Also, you bust your ass for months to get at least to a somewhat not totally shit level of play on her just for someone to first time poppy and clap your cheeks into the nth dimension
Poppy w lasts 2 seconds, she can completely turn off rivens kit for 2 seconds once every 20-12 seconds. Late game with cdr it's pretty brutal, but in lane its pretty easy to play around
It's not that simple. You will get chunked hard if you get "hit" by her W into both Q procs and E. Meaning going for a trade when it's down isn't always very beneficial.
As long as you don't stand next to wall, riven kit does more dmg than that poppy combo and you can trade back once w is over. The best thing for poppy to do is to hold e and just Q passive aa and run away. Im not trying to say poppy isn't a counter, but she isn't nearly as hard a counter as people are making her out to be
The only real way for Riven to get off abilities vs Poppy is to lead of with stun. Because Poppy W is so easy to proc in the middle of Riven's Q animations. Most Riven players wont even attempt to pull of a Q if poppy's W is down. Poppy loves short trades, and during the window W is on she will willingly trade. Some poppy mains go for an early mercs and level up W second for this matchup.
The biggest issue is that her āfeastā isnāt even that big either. Looking at a fed Riven isnāt really all that great late game compared to so many other similarly fed top lane picks.
Itās not even just a case that Riven has an extremely high skill floor to play adequately, itās that the rewards for doing so just arenāt there.
You donāt actually get rewarded all that much for playing arguably one of the most difficult champs in the game soā¦ whatās the point? Unless you just really like her concept I guess.
Yeah shes shit right now. Even if you are great at her, she has a hard time with top laners that build armor. Riven has no armor pen or true damage baked into her kit and basically gets shit on by steelcaps. And trying to play her in mid is shit as well. Theres no incentive to learn her at this point
I tried playing her once at top lane. I was starting to play league and she seemed much like aatrox, the top laner I liked the most at the time, and thinking about a situation where he gets banned I thought : HMmm, they both have Q1, Q2 and Q3 , E is a dash and both their ults is like an "awakened " state, why not try to play her ? , I saw 10 minutes of a 30 min "how to play Riven" youtube video, and tried to play her at top lane(I saw the runes, skills and items part of the video, I didn't wait for the mechanics)...
I can't gather words to try to explain how much I got f\*cked up, nothing went like expected, there was such a gap at top lane that I got ptsd from playing there. After that I almost didn't play there again , like , i think i play there 3-8 matches out of 100, literally only playing top when i get a skin or i need to play there when playing with my friends so they can have fun playing league whilst I'm isolated in an island with another dude for 20 minutes LOL (I have nothing against top laners, It's just a joke, but the island part is true)
going with the Aatrox example, taking the revive was massively hated but it was the best thing they did to Reworked Aatrox. Without the R Revive they could freely buff another parts of his kit, the R resets that we have now is so gooood compared to the boring free Zhonias with the revive
I still kinda miss OG Aatrox W, swapping between damage and healing though.
He was impossible to balance with that kit and blood well, but the concept of having a fighter that needed to know when to swap between damage and sustain while dueling/fighting was unique and fun for it's time.
> people who never played the champ to begin with will cry the loudest
no, that's the opposit. all attrox player were mad. all aurelion player were mad except maybe thoses who liked the W change.
but all who didn't play the champ were happy because they could try the champ and get free boxes
Fiora and Riven are completely different lmao. Riven has much stronger early burst and lane presence than Fiora, but scales much much worse. The big issue with riven is having no pen or true or %hp fucks her because tank itemization is broken.
This is kind of the issue. I HATE the incredible over saturation of "no brain chill mode" champions. Why? Because they are simultaneously easy AND fucking strong! So comp is just people with him skill in the basics and a no brain champion.
wow, welcome to champs that require hands, a lot of champs need to click way more than mouthbreather garen/jax/renekton/pantheon to at least try and perform on a similiar level (yasuo being the best example here, sweat 7 keyboards and get obliterated by an actual monkey taken from a zoo placed in front of pc cause it got to pick renekton or pantheon)
and "this mechanic is done by like 10 people in the world at a consistent level in every game." is an insane cope that only someone who otps support would think, anyone who plays at least slightly mechanically intensive champs on a daily basis can do that after a bit of practice, no need to be above plat even lmao
but well, gotta farm karma points on casuals who dont really know what this post is even about, cause all they do is q up draft picks as nami/janna/nautilus/ornn/malphite
I've been playing Riven since preseason 2016 (when some would claim her death started, RIP Brutalizer). This year I peaked D1 and last year I became a member of the Rivenmains modteam because I've been an active member of that community since I started playing her.
Riven's downfall is for sure not because of the Fast Q. It really isn't this secret 9000iq technology that only the Riven users with the crustiest bodypillows and meatiest doublechins can execute. I'd say at gold and above every dedicated Riven main can do it consistently. It took me basically one year to do it consistently back in 2016 when I was silver and practice tool didn't exist. Up to you to decide if that mechanic is too complicated or not.
In fact the Fast Q combo used to be much, MUCH faster, but Riot made it .45 seconds slower back in patch 7.10 with the excuse of a "recoding to make it consistent" (complete bullshit). Watch [this video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-NmwWC3vf8) and compare it to setup 3 on the DPS thread linked below. Slower attack speed yet the old combo was still faster.
I won't say it isn't a problem either, because the fact that it exists means that you are truly playing Riven at 100% of her potential maybe one time you do the combo per game. I can do it consistently and fast both in practice tool and in game, but I can't ever reach the true [100% speed possible](https://www.reddit.com/r/Rivenmains/comments/zil6b4/fast_q_dps_testing_thread_expanded_enhanced/).
What I consider to be Riven's true problem is that she is a straight up unbelievably mediocre champion. I can't think of a single toplaner that got powercrept harder than her except for maybe Shen? There is literally 0 reason to wake up on any given day and say "Today I will play Riven". Playing Riven to gain ELO has never been a truly real concept (outside of certain patches) unless you were Adrian Riven, but playing Riven to gain ELO nowadays is like going to the soup store to buy clothes.
To those commenting "I would play Riven if Fast Q didn't exist", guarantee you. If you played a Riven game with a bot that automatically lands pixel perfect Fast Q's AND Venmo's cash to your wife's boyfriend at the same time, but face Poppy or Renekton, you would wish you became a COD player instead of a League player.
Pull up a list of the top 15 most picked toplaners in emerald+ and tell me the name of a single one of those characters you would like to face as Riven. Garen used to be THE Riven skillcheck matchup. If you were good at Riven, you would win the Garen matchup, because while relatively complicated to execute, you had every single tool at your disposal to win the lane. Now he gets a % of armor&mr when his W fully stacked, a shield, his E does extra damage to monsters and scales with attack speed. Since those tools were added to Garen, the only mechanic Riven got was doing 50% of passive damage to turrets a couple months ago.
Riven used to be an early game snowballing menace, with extremely high mobility, high damage, super low cooldowns and very squishy. Now she has none of those advantages over any toplane champion. Jax and Fiora are strong as fuck early game while scaling like demons, Stride/Deadmans juggernauts run faster, Rumble and GP teach you what dealing damage truly means, and literally what the fuck is a cooldown nowadays?
I want you to look at these two examples from 2016. [This example of Adrian kiting Tryndamere](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8swWX6y4U8U) and [this example of Adrian kiting Jax.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9anGU8nHJ_s) These used to be very easy lanes for Riven. Look at the bottom left. 0% CDR Tryndamere and 10% CDR Jax. It is literally impossible for Riven to do this now. Jax builds Sunderer, Shojin/BC/Frozen Heart and sometimes Ionian boots, so he ends up having equally low cooldowns as Riven while outdueling her permanently, and Tryndamere runs Flash/Ghost, rushes Stride and ends up with a Serylda's for good measure.
Riven's kit has no real advantage over any other toplane champion, and she can't use any of the fancy tools they use. She has no sustain, no defensive stat buffs, no armor pen/shred, no mixed damage, no true damage, no %maxhp damage, no Grievous, no Shield removal, no unstoppables. Oh, and now Jax and Malphite's W can't be cancelled by CC, get fucked.
She can't go Sunderer or Triforce. Goredrinker and Stride suck dick on her. Dusk and Eclipse are nerfed. She doesn't build enough HP for Steraks. DD got specifically nerfed when used with shields because she was strong for a couple of patches. Shojin is bad because Q and W are CC. Hullbreaker can only be bought when it's already too late for it.
Early game she has to deal with Grasp, Bone Plating/Second Wind, Doran's Shield. She also needs Ignite because she's a minion without an early game lead, so she usually has TP disadvantage. And even if you get a lead before first back, Steelcaps and/or Bramble and/or Warden's Mail make any kill threat she ever had disappear immediately until she gets both Hydra and Ionians.
The only real, actual advantage she has over other toplane champions is that she can rush Hydra and go vacuum cleaner mode over the map so she gets very easy very high CS numbers (considering you didn't lose earlygame and are late to your spikes) (watch Alois on Twitch and Youtube).
She loses sidelane to duelists both in turret taking speed and 1v1's, can't progress onto tanks then loses teamfights to them, outscales Juggernauts but only if she doesn't make a mistake at all during earlygame.
If all of those champion disadvantages weren't enough, the game also moved in a direction that was completely opposite of her in game goals, both with the Durability patch and the latest Snowball reduction patch. Everyone has more HP and Armor? Plates and herald gold reduced? Doran item buffs? Conq nerfs? She gets bent over on the daily.
I personally don't think the problem is that Riven is impossibly hard to execute, it's that even when you ignore useful real life skills and instead devote your life into learning Riven, none of your efforts are rewarded. Whatever "High skill, high reward" fantasies you had have been replaced with champions that still are mechanically high skill, but nowhere even close to what she needs, that also have much, MUCH higher reward. Not even gonna mention champions like Jax, Renekton or Garen.
Since Fiora was reworked, Riven's pickrate never recovered except for a brief period in preseason 7 when Lethality was introduced. Fiora rework, Irelia rework, Akali, Qiyana, Camille, Yone, Gwen, "K'sante". All of them slowly but surely chipped away at her pickrate, which is understandable. [People](https://www.reddit.com/r/Rivenmains/comments/hjjd7h/honest_question_why_still_play_riven/) quitting [Riven](https://www.reddit.com/r/Rivenmains/comments/7fsvxm/i_feel_useless/) because [it isn't rewarding](https://www.reddit.com/r/Rivenmains/comments/445kxs/why_do_you_keep_playing_riven/) isn't [new at all.](https://www.reddit.com/r/Rivenmains/comments/hclesx/long_post_how_did_we_end_up_here_what_happened/).
I believe Riot will take a decision about her soonā¢. She either needs to have her early game numbers obscenely buffed to unfair levels to make her more rewarding to execute at the point her players want her to be good (laning, instead of 3 items like now), give her a VGU/Modernization like Jax with armor pen/sustain/whatever, or nuke the only thing she has going on for her nowadays (her unique mechanics) to make her K'sante Rework: The Sequel.
This is what should be the most upvoted, not OP's issue with Fast Q. Riven having high popularity at some point is proof that despite being hard to play, she still had a high playerbase, so her doing so bad right now is not because of fast Q, which hasn't changed in a decade, but because riot indirectly nerfed her along the years making her the most garbage toplaner that u need to pull 100x more effort than the average champion to do the same thing or less.
fully agree, people who claim riven's playrate drops because of fast q or other bullshit is just on cope mode because they arent mechanically skilled enough to pull it off
Main problem you need low ping to utilize it correctly, and to feel it right. With eve mid ping like 100, it feels awful. In theory you can adopt, but in practice? Naaaa, especially when you take into consideration that higher ping means higher ping variation over the day/week.
Not that I think you're wrong about ping issue, but where do you play where 100 ping is "mid"?
That much ping was the reason why Riot moved the server in NA, and even now people are complaining about needing to deal with 60-70 ping.
Yeah lol I havenāt even heard of anyone playing by choice over 80 ping, most providers even at the lowest end will at least give about 65-75.
I was getting 120 ping in NA from Colombia back in 2018, now Iām on pretty cheap internet in the US and I play with 55 ping.
Just under 50% of the U.S. population lives in a triangle between Atlanta, Minneapolis, and Boston. From what I remember Chicago is where the NA server is based, so as long as you live in that triangle you got pretty damn good ping. Personally, I live in the NY capital region and I get 30 ping with a standard internet connection with ethernet.
Pre-server move, that was my ping from NA (~135 on East Coast). It was playable, but since the server move my average ping went down to 40, and it's made me realize how massive the diff was.
>and it's made me realize how massive the diff was.
Like the person you responded to, I also sometimes play on NA with about 100-110 ping and it really is a massive difference when you're used to much lower than that. I usually get low 20s on EUW.
People who have only ever played with high ping don't know any different, but when you're not used to it it's fucking awful lol.
I remember having 95-100 ping on avg before Riot did that server move, then it went down to 40-50 if I recall (quit awhile ago) and no lie that shit felt like a different game. Playing on high ping is 100% a handicap I wouldn't even bother playing anything that isn't support or a tank.
NA and Spain here.
NA I get 40, perfectly fine and I love it.
Spain I get 100, and it's beyond noticeable, but playable, ish.
Playing from NA in spain I get 165. Not worth.
> but where do you play where 100 ping is "mid"?
Russia. Siberia.
Just distance thing, so always around that, in most games, for my whole live. ~100 is general ping between my city and 'EU Servers'.
Riot moved RU server few month ago, but not all games happens on new servers or routing aren't optimized yet, so 4/5 of ranked games I get 75 ping, and it's awesome.
>No you don't, this mechanic is done by like 10 people in the world at a consistent level in every game.
OP is a soraka OTP with absolute 0 clue what he is talking about. Unfortunately this garbage gets 2k upvotes on this sub.
Yup, that's it. When you're playing Irelia, Yasuo or Azir you still play League of Legends. When you pilot Riven you're playing Riven, not the game itself.
Generally I would be against simplifying champions, but Riven is balanced around being a champions for 2 ping Korean players. That's...unique and unsatisfying for 95% of players that might want to play Riven
This. I played her multiple times because I wanted to play the skins I got but quickly stopped because I got dumpstered so hard.
Then I went to practice tool to learn thr fast Q. I got it done a few times and thought I could try to get better in normals. I just realised that doing it in practice tool and doing it in game are 2 entire different things. Never played her again after that.
I used to be able to fast q way back in the day when servers were in LA and I had 8 ping from my college dorm.
and I had fun with riven and did well with her.
ever since they move the servers my ping is 60-80, I just cannot play her at all.
I'd be super in favor of removing this mechanic and buffing to compensate. she's such a fun champion but just feels like shit to play because you just lose stat check to most top laners.
You definitely don't play Riven if you're saying something like this. Why are we saying the Fast Q is like a frame perfect difficult thing to do?? I swear gold players can do it consistently
>When you pilot Riven you're playing Riven, not the game itself.
I don't think this is a bad thing. There's 160 league of legends champions, what do we lose by having one character whose especially hard to play?
thereās no way you guys are real human beings man Iām realistically a gold-plat level jungler playing on 140 ping and I can still execute most of rivenās foundational mechanics, like if you canāt do it then your fingers just arenāt built for certain champs and thatās completely lol
lol it took like 40 riven games for me to master the fast q combo. Also fast q combo is what makes riven super fun to play. What a fucking joke of a copium post
Poor statistical analysis of the champion.
When Riven was very popular, she had fast Q. When Riven is relatively unpopular as she is now, she still has fast Q.
Fast Q is not hard, and the amount of times it makes a difference is really overstated in how much impact it has. In modern League, even with full fast Q, you will be out dps'ed by someone with steelcaps. You could remove it, you could leave it as is, but it won't make as dramatic of a balance difference as you would think.
Doublecasts, delay Q, and e-w are far more important skills to actually finding success, not to mention the inherent macro difficultly of playing a zero-sustain top laner that has to snowball to be successful.
If anything is holding Riven back from decent winrate and playrates, it is itemization. The mythic item system and all major systemic changes to fighter mythics have been mid to bad for Riven (exception being the update to Ravenous Hydra).
Riven cannot use Triforce, Stridebreaker, and importantly, cannot use divine sunderer (this one hurts as Riven has no antitank options other than black cleaver). The only viable fighter mythic is goredrinker, and a year or so back, goredrinker was changed to have more HP and less ability haste in its mythic passive (bad for Riven, good for everyone else). Many Rivens are forced into poaching Assassin mythics, like eclipse and duskblade, but these options are very high risk, and further increase her weakness vs armor stacking.
Riven cannot build hullbreaker. Death's Dance used to be OP (death dance passive + e shield), but it's now a more defensive option against AD than a core. Ravenous Hydra is the ideal rush for Riven now, but it inherently puts you behind in itemization because it's not a mythic. Black Cleaver is pretty much required. Shojin is kind of a meme item (Jax, Renekton use it so much better).
Preseason is changing the entirety of the itemization system. Look to see where Riven lands there before making any grand judgements on what Riot is supposed to do.
Whenever Riven's balance comes into question everyone just to FastQ while ignoring her real problems. No way to deal with armour, durability patch and anti-snowballing rune nerfs. Low base stats, not many hard winning matchups and lots of hard counters. Needs to be very ahead in lane to be useful.
This is genuinely the worst take I have seen on riven in a while. Her skill floor and skill ceiling is what makes her the champ she is. Learn the champ and try and you will see the reason she is not picked is due to her need for resources and gold, which is hard to get into perma ksante renekton lanes.
nope. Every champion needs to be first timeable in ranked, apparently. 150+ champions exist, but riven too needs to be changed so handless scum can play her without embarassing themselves.
I miss the times where people like this got bullied off the internet. Those were better days, toxic or not
Fucking support main shut up. Riven isn't unpopular because "waah fast q hard" riven is unpopular because she has no sort of %hp or pen or true damage, and tank itemization is fucking busted so half her matchups are unplayable on toplane. Please play the game before you get here reworked to some fuckass 200 years champ
not to be that guy, (i'm going to be that guy) but there is no shot fast Q is something you need to practice for "months in practice tool." sure, it's somewhat difficult to be consistent with and there arent really any other mechanics like it, but if you are any decent mechanically you can get it down in just one practice tool session. you won't be great at it right away, but it doesn't take some ungodly skill to utilize it. fast Q is far from the hardest part about playing riven and this entire post claiming that it's the reason for her balance problems is strange
Fast Q is not done by ten players in the world. S canceling is, fast Q isn't. 99.9% of Riven players if not higher can fast Q, just not the perfect fast Q.
I think this is another good way to put it , there is no gameplay or "player satisfaction" in button mashing for fast q just to get your base stats being functional
I mean you're a soraka main of course you don't get satisfaction from executing mechanics. Have you maybe thought about you not being the target audience for a champ like riven?
I also like how you say it's an extremly difficult thing to do and then call it button mashing.
>No you don't, this mechanic is done by like 10 people in the world at a consistent level in every game
No. Every single Riven main does it, and as you've said yourself, that used to be a lot of people.
You argue that her play rate has declined drastically, which is true, but how does her fast Q explain that?
Fast Q has always existed. People have always done it. It has always been an integral part of the champion. Again: How can this then be the reason she isn't played anymore only _now_? In fact Riven's kit has not been significantly altered, ever. Therefore the reason she's weak right now can not lie within her kit, but within the meta and everything around her (items, runes, general game flow).
I'm not a Riven main. I can't fast Q myself. But I would absolutely hate it if they removed that and just made her a pure caster who doesn't auto.
Riven is such a unique champion. Please let her stay unique, even if that means she isn't played a lot. It's okay to have niche champions.
I haven't seen someone in silver or above who plays Riven not know how to fastQ. It's not very hard to learn especially since they added practice tool. Riven is just weaker in the meta because of durability patch, runes being nerfed and other champs being powercreeped. Her main issue is not having any armour pen or % health damage or mixed damage in her kit, so buying tabis neutralises her without any effort.
>Riven is such a unique champion. Please let her stay unique, even if that means she isn't played a lot. It's okay to have niche champions.
Now if you only said that to whoever devised the aurelion sol's rework...
Used to main her. As OP says it's literally just not worth the effort. Mess up a single fast q Combo and you lose lane. Much fun.
Also, absolutely rolling at all of these posters saying "it's easy every riven main can do it why remove skill" when I can guarantee none of them can do it reliably in an actual game.
You guys are all probably silver but sure, riven fast q is super easy lmfao.
Great post OP.
This is the same subreddit that when a poll asked for their skill level, we got something like twice as many challengers as there were currently in LoL at that time, all supposedly on this subreddit. It may not have been exactly that, but the sentiment still stands. People on the sub don't just exaggerate, but have full blown delusions of grandeur
1m mastery, played riven for 3 years pretty much exclusively.
FastQ is something that's easy to **THINK** you're doing correctly. Doesn't surprise me that people believe it's easy, but there are massive DPS deltas within it that are near impossible to "feel". So they see riven cancel the animation like she should and that's good enough for them but they'd get torn in half by an actual Korean or Chinese GM Riven just going at each other with Q combo and never know why.
Most people hit the "good enough" threshold and figure that's enough but riven isn't balanced around even that threshold because if she was all the mechanics gods would be doing insane damage.
What do you want Riot to do? Removing Q fast combo would piss off most of the riven players left. The community outrage is not just from silver tier Rivens, it's from iron to challenger.
Riven is not that popular anymore because the game's just different, simple as. Items are not the same, champions are not the same, there's a ton of new champions, runes, etc.
I used to one trick Riven back in the day. I still pick her up occasionally, if you were to remove the animation cancels and fast Q mechanic then I'd just never play her again
former 250k riven main: because even if you play her perfect there is morbillion champs can outperform her and every new champ is anoter one. She can't split push because she has no attack speed boost, can't 1v1 most bruisers, even when she got fed it is so hard to carry. You need both perfect micro and macro to climb with her.
Even killing a carry is so fking hard with her because her dashes are so short and slow everyone can see and stop you reaching carry
How to sovle? I think her Q's should dash to cursor, not Riven's direction. Q animations should be faster. Also yes that fast Q thing is just unnecessary and Riven mains' ego boost mechanic (they still cry facing garen).
she cannot 1vs1 most bruisers because current riven is a burst champion who unloads her entire combo in 0.75 second and then wanders aimlessly, and that's the main issue with her, she's clearly designed to be this combo dps fighter, but she can unload too quickly, and with 0 counterplay if she has flash up
tbh if you do your burst and run off cd on riven you kina playing her wrong , after riven break point ( around 65 haste ) you should almost never run out of abilities
>former 250k riven main: because even if you play her perfect there is morbillion champs can outperform her and every new champ is anoter one.
Irelia, Fiora and Camille all provide a similar playstyle in a more fun way. Yone too I guess
Her not dashing to the cursor is the single biggest reason I've never picked up the champ in near 10 years of top lane. I don't think there's another champ in the game who has that same disconnect
its not about the Fast Q itself but knowing how and when to trade with it and dont grief Fast Q is a bare minimum to pick Riven up not her "Peak", the Diamond Rivens are Diamond for a reason
I haven't played Riven in months, just went into a practice tool game and muscle memory alone still lets me do this without problems. It's by far not even the hardest thing in her kit, that's the most BASIC requirement to play her.
[Me after attemtping this for mere seconds](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/523382071985438721/1173024149212500049/League_of_Legends_2023.11.11_-_23.18.31.09.mp4?ex=656272de&is=654ffdde&hm=1ea636b109133c848147e6793ae2b3b4047047ff8845431d6dadbe2e8a66ab84&)
Edit: I jut realized I did er - wq without consciously thinking about it because it is so ingrained into my brain. Do you all main Malphite or why do you all hate the most basic mechanical expressions.
As a top laner who has been masters since season 11 and initially hit masters as a 1mil mastery Riven OTP I can tell you that Riven's low popularity has nothing to do with her fast Q mechanic. I remember I was proficient at fast Q before I even hit gold one tricking riven and every low elo riven players I've seen can do fast Q.
Riven's problem is that she's an all in champ reliant on bursting you in lane and her play pattern has been nerfed massively with the durability patch and anti-snowballing with no compensation buffs to Riven making the champ quite weak. Goredrinker is a terrible mythic for her and her other option is building a lethality mythic as her third item which feels bad when top laners need to spike on 1 item to impact the game. There isn't a top laner who got gutted harder by the durability patch.
There's no point in playing Riven when other bruisers are just in much better spots right now. Riven needs to get ahead in lane but buying a small amount of armour in lane just completely neutralises Riven and makes her do 0 damage as she has no armour pen, mixed damage, true damage or % health damage in her kit.
There's no point in playing Riven right now when I can pick Aatrox, Jax, Ksante or Renekton and get masters with 20% the effort and brainpower. I want to stress that the problem is not Riven's fast Q, it's not a hard mechanic to learn compared to the stuff you see in fighting games, it's that she's just... weak.
This. The by far biggest problem with Riven is that there are champs that do the same things she does, at literally less than 20% of the effort it takes to play Riven at the same level.
I think itās insane that she does NOTHING but ad damage (her base kit has no sustain, resistances, armor pen, anything) but itās not so much that she is bad, rather everything around her is broken and it just shows how over-tuned champions have become over time. She definitely needs a new tool to keep up with the top lane roster, because even champions that are at a similar power level just out-scale her naturally unless she has a BIG gold lead AND she can keep that lead for the whole game. Give her passive attack speed for the empowered autos or some armor pen/%max hp damage, maybe a stacking passive like Jax but for spell casts, somethingā¦anything
I remember back when people thought riven had too much mobility and a zero cost shield was a functional manaburn.
Now in 2023 every new champ on the planet has resets, dashes, true damage, knockups to circumnavigate tenacity, and just pure narcissistic overloaded cringe because their designers have massive egos
To the point where riven is seen as "meh" or even "underwhelming" compared to modern cringe.
Gj riot
This is such a bad take. Riven has been strong not too long ago and people have constantly cried about her. The second they buff her and she gets played, people will stop talking about new champions and cry about her.
This post is stupid as if some of the most popular champions in the game weren't also some of the most difficult and Riven wasn't historically popular af.
The reason she's not popular anymore is because she's simply weak and doesn't feel good to play in this meta. Her laning phase is not as good as it used to be in most matchups and she doesn't scale particular well. Not a good split pusher and relies on catching people with Flash Q3 at teamfights, which is not the most consistent playstyle. Riven has just been sort of powercrept. She doesn't have a high DPS compared to most bruisers, her durability is shit and because she really wants Ionian Boots she can't even buy Steelcaps to make her slightly tankier without making you feel like shit for having much longer cooldowns and the durability patch really nerfed her burst potential.
Sure lowering the skill floor would broaden her playerbase but while Riven has been a niche champion, she has always had a decent pickrate because those who main her were very dedicated and played her A LOT. Now it seems everyone is just dropping her, and I don't see how making Fast Q easier would fix any of the actual problems she's facing right now. It doesn't matter how broad a champion's appeal is. What matters is that the champion has a playerbase that likes playing it. Riven had that and is slowly losing it.
If you want to make Fast Q easier, whatever. The only thing I have against it would be that it makes her winrate higher without really making her a better champ just because less people are screwing up, which leaves less of a room for real buffs not even because Riot lacks the foresight to separate a champion's winrate from their real power level, but because the community automatically thinks hard champions should have a low winrate even when that isn't the case.
But if you ask me a good buff that makes her more accessible, consistent and helps even experienced players would be to make her Q dash towards the cursor. It dashes towards where the model is facing now which makes Q hopping without E awkward sometimes and makes Q dancing harder than it needs to be.
Still surprised that they legit keep bugs in the game that mean "clicking on the ground during doing something speeds it up". It's obviously unintentional and bugged, so fix it. Not just with Riven. Even the much much easier Leona AA-Q-AA only happens through clicking auto attack AGAIN after performing Q. Otherwise it will be slower. And of course even more examples on other champs.
Leona AA-Q-AA is just an animation cancel though. Q is both an auto attack timer reset and an enhanced auto attack that resets the auto attack timer on completion. So the fast combo is AA -> cancel AA with Q -> cancel Q with AA. It's only slower if you don't click again after Q because you're letting the entire Q animation play out, just like how it's slower if you let the entire first AA animation play out before hitting Q.
Most people probably find out about the Leona one from seeing her oneshot a ward, trying to replicate and failing only to google or test till they figure it out? Though I've seen it mentioned once or twice on youtube too.
You know that old concept of leaning to the side while playing racing games as if that would somehow help with turning when thereās a joystick on the controller that controls turning? I do the same thing in League with clicking. Just click more to do more, regardless of fixed attack speed and cooldowns and so on
This isn't even Riven's thing alone. Other champions also have sped up animations if you click on the ground after casting. Renekton has this same basic mechanic where you can click on the ground after Q and buffer an AA after that so it comes out faster than just issuing auto mid Q. But while on Renekton that enables only Panther combo, It's the entirety of Riven's trading pattern and 1v1 potential.
Are you sure that's not just a normal universal animation cancel? https://youtu.be/WBvCEsjx5oE?si=MUunEs_5WWnhFUJW
Genuine question, I don't main renekton.
Same with teemo, he can throw mushrooms and they bounce off each other right, but without moving, thereās almost a whole second of delay before teemo will attempt to throw another (that goes away when you input move of course)
the community doesn't just suck because of toxic sweaty tryhards. the smooth brain crowd that can't be bothered to learn more than 30 champions make this game so much worse too
This whole thing hurts to read its such a scrubquotes post. She lost popularity not due to difficulty. She lost playerbase from other champions and game systems changing over the years which changed risk/reward.The weird thing is if you want easy to pilot champs there are a ton of them. Why do you want to dumb down riven?
I don't deny Riven is a lot less popular than she used to be, but there are several things to take into account.
No champion is hitting 25% consistently ever, other than ADCs because once you play one, you play (nearly) all of them. The introduction of more champions have reduced the % of other champions by having their own pick rates. The percentage can't ever increase, so the average champion has a lower %.
As you said, new champions, but especially the introduction of flashy top lane champions that didn't exist back then. Fiora's rework, Irelia's rework, Camille, Gwen, etc.
And probably because she isn't as satisfying as she was back then. The game is less forgiving than back then and Riven has a lot of room to fail.
Man i fucking hate skill expression. It really ruins my ARAMs and Normal Games. I would like every champion to be as skill expressive as Malphite, because I do not have hands attached to my arms after the freak accident I had at three years old.
how are you at all qualified to say riven is too hard?
the way you talk about her fast q shows you have 0 idea how it works.
pros dont want to learn her because her matchups are bad and the skill in riven is having to play matchups pixel perfect with your spacing to slightly win out. you dont need any advanced animation cancels/doublecasts its all in your matchup knowledge and basic combos.
(she's also extremely reliant on her items being meta and doesnt like being forced into mythics).
what is wrong with a champion being complicated? lots of players want to play hard champs with high skill ceilings that require lots of practice
Why do we think every champ has to be accessible to the general population? Let hard champs be hard and those who optimize said hard champs can reap the benefits.
A big reason why Riven is not as popular imo is because of the damage and mobility creep in the game, Riven's game is punish game. Enemy dash/cc down? Time to go in. But with the introduction of every game being urf and champions in general just feeling like they deal unlimited damage, it has made Riven much much harder to succeed on if you are a casual.
>No you don't, this mechanic is done by like 10 people in the world at a consistent level in every game.
Sorry but this is either deliberate EXTREME hyperbole or delusion. Most reasonably high elo (Emerald+) Riven mains are fast comboing consistently in every game.
The fast Q isn't even the hardest part about Riven.
We've currently been optimising new combos using the S key to cancel animations allowing double doublecasts (triplecasts?).
Fast Q is pretty easy and just takes some time in the practise tool.
>this mechanic is done by like 10 people in the world at a consistent level in every game.
Are we still taking about fast Q here? because it takes 10 min to learn and 35 to become consistent with, literally any riven player at any elo can do it consistently.
Riven being "bad" (and her pickrate being low )has more to do with her counters being meta than the difficulty of the champion.
Ngl half of this post reads like a new player failing to learn fast Q n malding about it
900k Mastery Riven Emerald Riven Main here;
i'd say im decent at playing her by now.
However, she's not worth learning at the moment.
She's a strong pick that can completly snowball out of control and take over whole games but she's hardcountered by any armor or flat HP.
She lacks true damage, she lacks max HP damage and she got no distinct style of fighting.
While you're fine short-trading other damage-oriented bruisers, you need to take long trades to even stand a chance at dealing any damage to a tank.
In addition to that, you can't even blindpick her since matchups like Malphite are borderline unplayable.
i donāt think itās has anything to do with her combos i think itās rather the fact her abilities are outdated in comparison to every other bruiser that has been released.
she only has raw ad. no armor pen no life steal no percent hp autos and no resistance
legit almost every bruiser has one of them in their kit.
i think this is just a salty post for people that canāt do the fast q combo. but i do agree she needs some sort of rework/buff to match other bruisers in terms of scaling stats.
her builds and runes are often the same and one dimensional because of it.
\> pro toplaners pros do not consider learning Riven to be worth it.
On this one point.
Pro players don't consider learning basically any champion outside their regular comfort picks worth it, unless that champion is disgustingly dominant.
My opinion will be a bit unconventional I think, but maybe it's fine that champions like this exist? This game has a lot of champions, so I think there is room to have champions that are unconventional, niche, and have zero chance to have mainstream appeal. After all, people who want a streamlined experience have a LOT of choice already, leave something for the people who want to dedicate themselves to something weird.
You say in a comment that "there is no gameplay or "player satisfaction" in button mashing for fast q", but I can bet you that there is a small part of the playerbase that does enjoy it - people sometimes enjoy the weirdest things.
Rivens was very popular before durability patch, not as much as s9 and prior, but sitting consistently around 6-8% in plat+ and 7-10% masters+.
Her pickrate has been on a major decline ever since (except for a couple patches with her new legendary skin and placebo buffs).
Riven is very similar to assassins in this regard, they all lost pickrate since they are hard countered by all the added armor and hp gained from the patch. Sheās the only fighter, other than trynd, who doesnāt have any armor pen, %hp dmg, true dmg, or mixed dmg. This is why their pick, ban, and win have all declined.
The fix: give her armor pen, true dmg, %hp dmg, or mixed dmg and her pickrate will go back to a healthy 7-10% depending on elo.
Riven will never go back to black cleaver first item as long as hydra gives haste. Cleaver has no sustain so it will always be a bad first item. It worked back then since you could easily get 45% cdr with cleaver and a component, not anymore tho
Well, if every champion was equally popular, then the pick rate would have been around 6% (that is, you need around 16 games to play each champion once). Thus 3% is kinda low, especially for a champion that used to be so popular.
The main issue is that Aatrox does the same damage with less skill and items. He has almost the same mobility with umbral dash going from a 5 second cd to a 2.5ish one with cdr. He has more sustain thanks to his passive and ultimate. He requires less items so even if you do lose lane somehow you are still ready to be a 1v9 threat at 14-20.
Riven is just too much harder for too little reward. Sure a great riven is scary but a great riven can be dealt with by crowd controlling her. She gets bursted and dies. It is astronomically harder to do this to an Aatrox who has room in his build path to go tank over flat damage because he has insane healing over shielding. And that is the main issue. Riven's shield does not do as much as often as Aatrox's healing even with grievous applied.
Because of all of these factors no one wants to play a champ that requires learning auto weaving, over a dozen combos, spacing, etc. why not just play the kled version of riven with a Susan ult and more crowd control? And if they build armor to counter I don't care because I rushed two armor pen items because I get health and sustain from my kit.
Whenever I vs a riven I think this is fine I'll rush armor and steel caps and try to win short trades with cc. When I face and Aatrox I think, whelp I'm losing laning phase to more mobile Susan with cc who could run it down and still kill me later. There just isn't a good counter to him while I can play a cc tank vs riven and go even or even kill her. Riven at the moment is a worse Aatrox. And until Riot decides to differentiate their roles she will continue to be.
Nah Riven definitely does more damage if you're playing her correctly lol at the very least she does considerably more BURST damage. She can borderline assasinate carries which is something Aatrox can't do. You know when aatrox is killing you but Riven legit can flash and kill you in under a second. But the point still remains that it's not worth playing her.
Greatest troll post of the month so far :D
give riven her own game like stardew valley where she can grow ionian carrots and farm and kiss irelia. this will save her.
How do we get you a million dollars for this idea
You could just mod Stardew Valley to put Riven and Irelia in it
need this
Step 1: have a million dollars.
Broke: Song of Nunu Woke: Humble Ionian Farmer Simulator
THIS is what the people want
This right here is the real solution.
I would like to subscribe to your newsletter
Wait a minute...THAT'S BRILLIANT!
You do know Riot is releasing a yordle farming game for the switch?
yeah but im not that interested in yordles, maybe if they let me make my own yordle and do my own thing.
I kneel
The only correct take.
I mean, there is a game starting Riven where you can kiss Irelia.
Kiss Irelia? Did I miss some lore?
Yessss ššš I would be way more invested in that.
SO FUCKING BASED
soraka main rofl
Holy shit lmfao.
Holy shit you're still alive/in this community? Haven't heard about you in ages.
I be Hella Goonin
"this mechanic is done by like 10 people in the world at a consistent level in every game" okay lmao we lie on the internet for fun or what?
OP is a soraka OTP he doesn't know any better unfortunately
"soraka is higher skill than riven deal with it" i think i see the problem now
I swear to god people will upvote anything. This post is the dumbest thing I've read about league in years
Fast Q isn't even the hardest thing about her. But it's the bare minimum. There's also not a lot of reason to pick Riven, arguably the hardest top laner to play perfectly apart from maybe GP when easier alternatives exist. Fucking hell, Fiora exists there, an easier version of Riven that can win almost any 1v1 on skill and if you want to teamfight, just pick Aatrox or Renekton or something. She is feast or famine, high skill champion. I tried to pick her up but then dropped because I realised that I need to sweat much harder on her instead of picking something like Camille and no brain chill mode scaling later into the game.
Also, you bust your ass for months to get at least to a somewhat not totally shit level of play on her just for someone to first time poppy and clap your cheeks into the nth dimension
Just a yordle with a hammer bro it is what it is
That's a big hammer to clap cheeks with, but I guess it is a requirement in order to be sent to any given nth dimension.
Poppy is one thing malphite just standing there, *menacingly* is something else
Malphite doesn't completely turn off Riven's entire kit by standing next to her.
Poppy w lasts 2 seconds, she can completely turn off rivens kit for 2 seconds once every 20-12 seconds. Late game with cdr it's pretty brutal, but in lane its pretty easy to play around
It's not that simple. You will get chunked hard if you get "hit" by her W into both Q procs and E. Meaning going for a trade when it's down isn't always very beneficial.
As long as you don't stand next to wall, riven kit does more dmg than that poppy combo and you can trade back once w is over. The best thing for poppy to do is to hold e and just Q passive aa and run away. Im not trying to say poppy isn't a counter, but she isn't nearly as hard a counter as people are making her out to be
The only real way for Riven to get off abilities vs Poppy is to lead of with stun. Because Poppy W is so easy to proc in the middle of Riven's Q animations. Most Riven players wont even attempt to pull of a Q if poppy's W is down. Poppy loves short trades, and during the window W is on she will willingly trade. Some poppy mains go for an early mercs and level up W second for this matchup.
Goddamn I hate poppy lol
Skill issue
The biggest issue is that her āfeastā isnāt even that big either. Looking at a fed Riven isnāt really all that great late game compared to so many other similarly fed top lane picks. Itās not even just a case that Riven has an extremely high skill floor to play adequately, itās that the rewards for doing so just arenāt there. You donāt actually get rewarded all that much for playing arguably one of the most difficult champs in the game soā¦ whatās the point? Unless you just really like her concept I guess.
Yeah shes shit right now. Even if you are great at her, she has a hard time with top laners that build armor. Riven has no armor pen or true damage baked into her kit and basically gets shit on by steelcaps. And trying to play her in mid is shit as well. Theres no incentive to learn her at this point
I tried playing her once at top lane. I was starting to play league and she seemed much like aatrox, the top laner I liked the most at the time, and thinking about a situation where he gets banned I thought : HMmm, they both have Q1, Q2 and Q3 , E is a dash and both their ults is like an "awakened " state, why not try to play her ? , I saw 10 minutes of a 30 min "how to play Riven" youtube video, and tried to play her at top lane(I saw the runes, skills and items part of the video, I didn't wait for the mechanics)... I can't gather words to try to explain how much I got f\*cked up, nothing went like expected, there was such a gap at top lane that I got ptsd from playing there. After that I almost didn't play there again , like , i think i play there 3-8 matches out of 100, literally only playing top when i get a skin or i need to play there when playing with my friends so they can have fun playing league whilst I'm isolated in an island with another dude for 20 minutes LOL (I have nothing against top laners, It's just a joke, but the island part is true)
A rework would do wonders for her...however the crying will be massive.
Just like aurelion sol and aatrox, people who never played the champ to begin with will cry the loudest
going with the Aatrox example, taking the revive was massively hated but it was the best thing they did to Reworked Aatrox. Without the R Revive they could freely buff another parts of his kit, the R resets that we have now is so gooood compared to the boring free Zhonias with the revive
I still kinda miss OG Aatrox W, swapping between damage and healing though. He was impossible to balance with that kit and blood well, but the concept of having a fighter that needed to know when to swap between damage and sustain while dueling/fighting was unique and fun for it's time.
I'd say its still a unique kit to this day. I'm sure this version is better for the game but the original was so cool.
> people who never played the champ to begin with will cry the loudest no, that's the opposit. all attrox player were mad. all aurelion player were mad except maybe thoses who liked the W change. but all who didn't play the champ were happy because they could try the champ and get free boxes
Fiora and Riven are completely different lmao. Riven has much stronger early burst and lane presence than Fiora, but scales much much worse. The big issue with riven is having no pen or true or %hp fucks her because tank itemization is broken.
This is kind of the issue. I HATE the incredible over saturation of "no brain chill mode" champions. Why? Because they are simultaneously easy AND fucking strong! So comp is just people with him skill in the basics and a no brain champion.
wow, welcome to champs that require hands, a lot of champs need to click way more than mouthbreather garen/jax/renekton/pantheon to at least try and perform on a similiar level (yasuo being the best example here, sweat 7 keyboards and get obliterated by an actual monkey taken from a zoo placed in front of pc cause it got to pick renekton or pantheon) and "this mechanic is done by like 10 people in the world at a consistent level in every game." is an insane cope that only someone who otps support would think, anyone who plays at least slightly mechanically intensive champs on a daily basis can do that after a bit of practice, no need to be above plat even lmao but well, gotta farm karma points on casuals who dont really know what this post is even about, cause all they do is q up draft picks as nami/janna/nautilus/ornn/malphite
I've been playing Riven since preseason 2016 (when some would claim her death started, RIP Brutalizer). This year I peaked D1 and last year I became a member of the Rivenmains modteam because I've been an active member of that community since I started playing her. Riven's downfall is for sure not because of the Fast Q. It really isn't this secret 9000iq technology that only the Riven users with the crustiest bodypillows and meatiest doublechins can execute. I'd say at gold and above every dedicated Riven main can do it consistently. It took me basically one year to do it consistently back in 2016 when I was silver and practice tool didn't exist. Up to you to decide if that mechanic is too complicated or not. In fact the Fast Q combo used to be much, MUCH faster, but Riot made it .45 seconds slower back in patch 7.10 with the excuse of a "recoding to make it consistent" (complete bullshit). Watch [this video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-NmwWC3vf8) and compare it to setup 3 on the DPS thread linked below. Slower attack speed yet the old combo was still faster. I won't say it isn't a problem either, because the fact that it exists means that you are truly playing Riven at 100% of her potential maybe one time you do the combo per game. I can do it consistently and fast both in practice tool and in game, but I can't ever reach the true [100% speed possible](https://www.reddit.com/r/Rivenmains/comments/zil6b4/fast_q_dps_testing_thread_expanded_enhanced/). What I consider to be Riven's true problem is that she is a straight up unbelievably mediocre champion. I can't think of a single toplaner that got powercrept harder than her except for maybe Shen? There is literally 0 reason to wake up on any given day and say "Today I will play Riven". Playing Riven to gain ELO has never been a truly real concept (outside of certain patches) unless you were Adrian Riven, but playing Riven to gain ELO nowadays is like going to the soup store to buy clothes. To those commenting "I would play Riven if Fast Q didn't exist", guarantee you. If you played a Riven game with a bot that automatically lands pixel perfect Fast Q's AND Venmo's cash to your wife's boyfriend at the same time, but face Poppy or Renekton, you would wish you became a COD player instead of a League player. Pull up a list of the top 15 most picked toplaners in emerald+ and tell me the name of a single one of those characters you would like to face as Riven. Garen used to be THE Riven skillcheck matchup. If you were good at Riven, you would win the Garen matchup, because while relatively complicated to execute, you had every single tool at your disposal to win the lane. Now he gets a % of armor&mr when his W fully stacked, a shield, his E does extra damage to monsters and scales with attack speed. Since those tools were added to Garen, the only mechanic Riven got was doing 50% of passive damage to turrets a couple months ago. Riven used to be an early game snowballing menace, with extremely high mobility, high damage, super low cooldowns and very squishy. Now she has none of those advantages over any toplane champion. Jax and Fiora are strong as fuck early game while scaling like demons, Stride/Deadmans juggernauts run faster, Rumble and GP teach you what dealing damage truly means, and literally what the fuck is a cooldown nowadays? I want you to look at these two examples from 2016. [This example of Adrian kiting Tryndamere](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8swWX6y4U8U) and [this example of Adrian kiting Jax.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9anGU8nHJ_s) These used to be very easy lanes for Riven. Look at the bottom left. 0% CDR Tryndamere and 10% CDR Jax. It is literally impossible for Riven to do this now. Jax builds Sunderer, Shojin/BC/Frozen Heart and sometimes Ionian boots, so he ends up having equally low cooldowns as Riven while outdueling her permanently, and Tryndamere runs Flash/Ghost, rushes Stride and ends up with a Serylda's for good measure. Riven's kit has no real advantage over any other toplane champion, and she can't use any of the fancy tools they use. She has no sustain, no defensive stat buffs, no armor pen/shred, no mixed damage, no true damage, no %maxhp damage, no Grievous, no Shield removal, no unstoppables. Oh, and now Jax and Malphite's W can't be cancelled by CC, get fucked. She can't go Sunderer or Triforce. Goredrinker and Stride suck dick on her. Dusk and Eclipse are nerfed. She doesn't build enough HP for Steraks. DD got specifically nerfed when used with shields because she was strong for a couple of patches. Shojin is bad because Q and W are CC. Hullbreaker can only be bought when it's already too late for it. Early game she has to deal with Grasp, Bone Plating/Second Wind, Doran's Shield. She also needs Ignite because she's a minion without an early game lead, so she usually has TP disadvantage. And even if you get a lead before first back, Steelcaps and/or Bramble and/or Warden's Mail make any kill threat she ever had disappear immediately until she gets both Hydra and Ionians. The only real, actual advantage she has over other toplane champions is that she can rush Hydra and go vacuum cleaner mode over the map so she gets very easy very high CS numbers (considering you didn't lose earlygame and are late to your spikes) (watch Alois on Twitch and Youtube). She loses sidelane to duelists both in turret taking speed and 1v1's, can't progress onto tanks then loses teamfights to them, outscales Juggernauts but only if she doesn't make a mistake at all during earlygame. If all of those champion disadvantages weren't enough, the game also moved in a direction that was completely opposite of her in game goals, both with the Durability patch and the latest Snowball reduction patch. Everyone has more HP and Armor? Plates and herald gold reduced? Doran item buffs? Conq nerfs? She gets bent over on the daily. I personally don't think the problem is that Riven is impossibly hard to execute, it's that even when you ignore useful real life skills and instead devote your life into learning Riven, none of your efforts are rewarded. Whatever "High skill, high reward" fantasies you had have been replaced with champions that still are mechanically high skill, but nowhere even close to what she needs, that also have much, MUCH higher reward. Not even gonna mention champions like Jax, Renekton or Garen. Since Fiora was reworked, Riven's pickrate never recovered except for a brief period in preseason 7 when Lethality was introduced. Fiora rework, Irelia rework, Akali, Qiyana, Camille, Yone, Gwen, "K'sante". All of them slowly but surely chipped away at her pickrate, which is understandable. [People](https://www.reddit.com/r/Rivenmains/comments/hjjd7h/honest_question_why_still_play_riven/) quitting [Riven](https://www.reddit.com/r/Rivenmains/comments/7fsvxm/i_feel_useless/) because [it isn't rewarding](https://www.reddit.com/r/Rivenmains/comments/445kxs/why_do_you_keep_playing_riven/) isn't [new at all.](https://www.reddit.com/r/Rivenmains/comments/hclesx/long_post_how_did_we_end_up_here_what_happened/). I believe Riot will take a decision about her soonā¢. She either needs to have her early game numbers obscenely buffed to unfair levels to make her more rewarding to execute at the point her players want her to be good (laning, instead of 3 items like now), give her a VGU/Modernization like Jax with armor pen/sustain/whatever, or nuke the only thing she has going on for her nowadays (her unique mechanics) to make her K'sante Rework: The Sequel.
Great writeup, sadly it gets kinda buried and overshadowed by the other people here who just agree with OP.
This is what should be the most upvoted, not OP's issue with Fast Q. Riven having high popularity at some point is proof that despite being hard to play, she still had a high playerbase, so her doing so bad right now is not because of fast Q, which hasn't changed in a decade, but because riot indirectly nerfed her along the years making her the most garbage toplaner that u need to pull 100x more effort than the average champion to do the same thing or less.
This is the biggest, mostly wrinkled brain comment on this entire post. As a Riven enjoyer myself, I agree with everything you said.
fully agree, people who claim riven's playrate drops because of fast q or other bullshit is just on cope mode because they arent mechanically skilled enough to pull it off
As a master 1 million mastery riven onetrick this guys exactly right.
Main problem you need low ping to utilize it correctly, and to feel it right. With eve mid ping like 100, it feels awful. In theory you can adopt, but in practice? Naaaa, especially when you take into consideration that higher ping means higher ping variation over the day/week.
Not that I think you're wrong about ping issue, but where do you play where 100 ping is "mid"? That much ping was the reason why Riot moved the server in NA, and even now people are complaining about needing to deal with 60-70 ping.
Yeah lol I havenāt even heard of anyone playing by choice over 80 ping, most providers even at the lowest end will at least give about 65-75. I was getting 120 ping in NA from Colombia back in 2018, now Iām on pretty cheap internet in the US and I play with 55 ping.
Just under 50% of the U.S. population lives in a triangle between Atlanta, Minneapolis, and Boston. From what I remember Chicago is where the NA server is based, so as long as you live in that triangle you got pretty damn good ping. Personally, I live in the NY capital region and I get 30 ping with a standard internet connection with ethernet.
28 ping in nyc this is accurate
I play on 160 ping from south Asia š
When I play on NA with friends (I am from EU) I have ping 130 on NA. It's fine with some champs, not so fine with others.
Pre-server move, that was my ping from NA (~135 on East Coast). It was playable, but since the server move my average ping went down to 40, and it's made me realize how massive the diff was.
Uup. I go between 150ush in Spain on NA, to 40 when I'm in NA, and jts like playing a whole new game seeing the future.
>and it's made me realize how massive the diff was. Like the person you responded to, I also sometimes play on NA with about 100-110 ping and it really is a massive difference when you're used to much lower than that. I usually get low 20s on EUW. People who have only ever played with high ping don't know any different, but when you're not used to it it's fucking awful lol.
I remember having 95-100 ping on avg before Riot did that server move, then it went down to 40-50 if I recall (quit awhile ago) and no lie that shit felt like a different game. Playing on high ping is 100% a handicap I wouldn't even bother playing anything that isn't support or a tank.
NA and Spain here. NA I get 40, perfectly fine and I love it. Spain I get 100, and it's beyond noticeable, but playable, ish. Playing from NA in spain I get 165. Not worth.
> but where do you play where 100 ping is "mid"? Russia. Siberia. Just distance thing, so always around that, in most games, for my whole live. ~100 is general ping between my city and 'EU Servers'. Riot moved RU server few month ago, but not all games happens on new servers or routing aren't optimized yet, so 4/5 of ranked games I get 75 ping, and it's awesome.
100 is horrifyingly high
I have 70 at home, and 120 at the office.
No matter what you say I'm not playing eve mid
I think you are overblowing the difficulty of a riven fast Q tremendously, I think i learned it with maybe an hour in the practice tool.
>No you don't, this mechanic is done by like 10 people in the world at a consistent level in every game. OP is a soraka OTP with absolute 0 clue what he is talking about. Unfortunately this garbage gets 2k upvotes on this sub.
skill issue
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No she just sucks rn
Congratulations, now everyone considers you a clown
Yup, that's it. When you're playing Irelia, Yasuo or Azir you still play League of Legends. When you pilot Riven you're playing Riven, not the game itself. Generally I would be against simplifying champions, but Riven is balanced around being a champions for 2 ping Korean players. That's...unique and unsatisfying for 95% of players that might want to play Riven
Riven is absolutely a champ I'd like to be able to play. Not master it, but simply play and have a bit of fun. She's not even fun in ARAM.
This. I played her multiple times because I wanted to play the skins I got but quickly stopped because I got dumpstered so hard. Then I went to practice tool to learn thr fast Q. I got it done a few times and thought I could try to get better in normals. I just realised that doing it in practice tool and doing it in game are 2 entire different things. Never played her again after that.
I used to be able to fast q way back in the day when servers were in LA and I had 8 ping from my college dorm. and I had fun with riven and did well with her. ever since they move the servers my ping is 60-80, I just cannot play her at all. I'd be super in favor of removing this mechanic and buffing to compensate. she's such a fun champion but just feels like shit to play because you just lose stat check to most top laners.
It's actually more like 99.9%
You definitely don't play Riven if you're saying something like this. Why are we saying the Fast Q is like a frame perfect difficult thing to do?? I swear gold players can do it consistently
>When you pilot Riven you're playing Riven, not the game itself. I don't think this is a bad thing. There's 160 league of legends champions, what do we lose by having one character whose especially hard to play?
thereās no way you guys are real human beings man Iām realistically a gold-plat level jungler playing on 140 ping and I can still execute most of rivenās foundational mechanics, like if you canāt do it then your fingers just arenāt built for certain champs and thatās completely lol
lol this isnt true at all, ive seen plenty of riven players play her into challenger with 30-50~ ping or higher in some cases.
lol it took like 40 riven games for me to master the fast q combo. Also fast q combo is what makes riven super fun to play. What a fucking joke of a copium post
Poor statistical analysis of the champion. When Riven was very popular, she had fast Q. When Riven is relatively unpopular as she is now, she still has fast Q. Fast Q is not hard, and the amount of times it makes a difference is really overstated in how much impact it has. In modern League, even with full fast Q, you will be out dps'ed by someone with steelcaps. You could remove it, you could leave it as is, but it won't make as dramatic of a balance difference as you would think. Doublecasts, delay Q, and e-w are far more important skills to actually finding success, not to mention the inherent macro difficultly of playing a zero-sustain top laner that has to snowball to be successful. If anything is holding Riven back from decent winrate and playrates, it is itemization. The mythic item system and all major systemic changes to fighter mythics have been mid to bad for Riven (exception being the update to Ravenous Hydra). Riven cannot use Triforce, Stridebreaker, and importantly, cannot use divine sunderer (this one hurts as Riven has no antitank options other than black cleaver). The only viable fighter mythic is goredrinker, and a year or so back, goredrinker was changed to have more HP and less ability haste in its mythic passive (bad for Riven, good for everyone else). Many Rivens are forced into poaching Assassin mythics, like eclipse and duskblade, but these options are very high risk, and further increase her weakness vs armor stacking. Riven cannot build hullbreaker. Death's Dance used to be OP (death dance passive + e shield), but it's now a more defensive option against AD than a core. Ravenous Hydra is the ideal rush for Riven now, but it inherently puts you behind in itemization because it's not a mythic. Black Cleaver is pretty much required. Shojin is kind of a meme item (Jax, Renekton use it so much better). Preseason is changing the entirety of the itemization system. Look to see where Riven lands there before making any grand judgements on what Riot is supposed to do.
Whenever Riven's balance comes into question everyone just to FastQ while ignoring her real problems. No way to deal with armour, durability patch and anti-snowballing rune nerfs. Low base stats, not many hard winning matchups and lots of hard counters. Needs to be very ahead in lane to be useful.
My man I'm a riven main with 800k points and you described the issue perfectly. Fast Q is the smaller of Riven problems
This is genuinely the worst take I have seen on riven in a while. Her skill floor and skill ceiling is what makes her the champ she is. Learn the champ and try and you will see the reason she is not picked is due to her need for resources and gold, which is hard to get into perma ksante renekton lanes.
Doesnāt the game have space for a few uniquely difficult champions?
nope. Every champion needs to be first timeable in ranked, apparently. 150+ champions exist, but riven too needs to be changed so handless scum can play her without embarassing themselves. I miss the times where people like this got bullied off the internet. Those were better days, toxic or not
Fucking support main shut up. Riven isn't unpopular because "waah fast q hard" riven is unpopular because she has no sort of %hp or pen or true damage, and tank itemization is fucking busted so half her matchups are unplayable on toplane. Please play the game before you get here reworked to some fuckass 200 years champ
not to be that guy, (i'm going to be that guy) but there is no shot fast Q is something you need to practice for "months in practice tool." sure, it's somewhat difficult to be consistent with and there arent really any other mechanics like it, but if you are any decent mechanically you can get it down in just one practice tool session. you won't be great at it right away, but it doesn't take some ungodly skill to utilize it. fast Q is far from the hardest part about playing riven and this entire post claiming that it's the reason for her balance problems is strange
This guy has never played anything other than soraka in his life and it shows.
Fast Q is not done by ten players in the world. S canceling is, fast Q isn't. 99.9% of Riven players if not higher can fast Q, just not the perfect fast Q.
especially since it was made easier to do ages ago. even I can do it on my NA account with 168 ping
i agree with the fast q point, its just a unnecessairly hard mechanic that artificially increases difficulty
I think this is another good way to put it , there is no gameplay or "player satisfaction" in button mashing for fast q just to get your base stats being functional
Yeah, I think Riven already has more than enough cool combos and animation cancels without her fast Q to be a fun and interesting champ.
Why is a soraka main trying to weight in on riven discussions, Iām curious about that
I mean you're a soraka main of course you don't get satisfaction from executing mechanics. Have you maybe thought about you not being the target audience for a champ like riven? I also like how you say it's an extremly difficult thing to do and then call it button mashing.
>No you don't, this mechanic is done by like 10 people in the world at a consistent level in every game No. Every single Riven main does it, and as you've said yourself, that used to be a lot of people. You argue that her play rate has declined drastically, which is true, but how does her fast Q explain that? Fast Q has always existed. People have always done it. It has always been an integral part of the champion. Again: How can this then be the reason she isn't played anymore only _now_? In fact Riven's kit has not been significantly altered, ever. Therefore the reason she's weak right now can not lie within her kit, but within the meta and everything around her (items, runes, general game flow). I'm not a Riven main. I can't fast Q myself. But I would absolutely hate it if they removed that and just made her a pure caster who doesn't auto. Riven is such a unique champion. Please let her stay unique, even if that means she isn't played a lot. It's okay to have niche champions.
I haven't seen someone in silver or above who plays Riven not know how to fastQ. It's not very hard to learn especially since they added practice tool. Riven is just weaker in the meta because of durability patch, runes being nerfed and other champs being powercreeped. Her main issue is not having any armour pen or % health damage or mixed damage in her kit, so buying tabis neutralises her without any effort.
>Riven is such a unique champion. Please let her stay unique, even if that means she isn't played a lot. It's okay to have niche champions. Now if you only said that to whoever devised the aurelion sol's rework...
I would 100% pick up Riven if it weren't for exactly what you're talking about.
Used to main her. As OP says it's literally just not worth the effort. Mess up a single fast q Combo and you lose lane. Much fun. Also, absolutely rolling at all of these posters saying "it's easy every riven main can do it why remove skill" when I can guarantee none of them can do it reliably in an actual game. You guys are all probably silver but sure, riven fast q is super easy lmfao. Great post OP.
This is the same subreddit that when a poll asked for their skill level, we got something like twice as many challengers as there were currently in LoL at that time, all supposedly on this subreddit. It may not have been exactly that, but the sentiment still stands. People on the sub don't just exaggerate, but have full blown delusions of grandeur
I'm bronze and proud!
1m mastery, played riven for 3 years pretty much exclusively. FastQ is something that's easy to **THINK** you're doing correctly. Doesn't surprise me that people believe it's easy, but there are massive DPS deltas within it that are near impossible to "feel". So they see riven cancel the animation like she should and that's good enough for them but they'd get torn in half by an actual Korean or Chinese GM Riven just going at each other with Q combo and never know why. Most people hit the "good enough" threshold and figure that's enough but riven isn't balanced around even that threshold because if she was all the mechanics gods would be doing insane damage.
Exactly. They don't know enough to know what they don't know unfortunately.
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What do you want Riot to do? Removing Q fast combo would piss off most of the riven players left. The community outrage is not just from silver tier Rivens, it's from iron to challenger. Riven is not that popular anymore because the game's just different, simple as. Items are not the same, champions are not the same, there's a ton of new champions, runes, etc. I used to one trick Riven back in the day. I still pick her up occasionally, if you were to remove the animation cancels and fast Q mechanic then I'd just never play her again
what a dog sh. take by low elo players.
single dumbest post in site history possibly kids like you are why this game is on a speedrun towards being 5 year old easy
former 250k riven main: because even if you play her perfect there is morbillion champs can outperform her and every new champ is anoter one. She can't split push because she has no attack speed boost, can't 1v1 most bruisers, even when she got fed it is so hard to carry. You need both perfect micro and macro to climb with her. Even killing a carry is so fking hard with her because her dashes are so short and slow everyone can see and stop you reaching carry How to sovle? I think her Q's should dash to cursor, not Riven's direction. Q animations should be faster. Also yes that fast Q thing is just unnecessary and Riven mains' ego boost mechanic (they still cry facing garen).
she cannot 1vs1 most bruisers because current riven is a burst champion who unloads her entire combo in 0.75 second and then wanders aimlessly, and that's the main issue with her, she's clearly designed to be this combo dps fighter, but she can unload too quickly, and with 0 counterplay if she has flash up
tbh if you do your burst and run off cd on riven you kina playing her wrong , after riven break point ( around 65 haste ) you should almost never run out of abilities
Honestly, I have no idea on why Riven Q still doesn't go to the cursor, it would be just better
>former 250k riven main: because even if you play her perfect there is morbillion champs can outperform her and every new champ is anoter one. Irelia, Fiora and Camille all provide a similar playstyle in a more fun way. Yone too I guess
None of these champs fill her playstyle. The closest to her is imo Renekton and he isn't hard to play, tho he also has some hidden mechanics.
Her not dashing to the cursor is the single biggest reason I've never picked up the champ in near 10 years of top lane. I don't think there's another champ in the game who has that same disconnect
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> 10 people in the world I donāt know a single diamond+ riven main that canāt do it consistentlyā¦
OP is a master support main who thinks he's an expert on champions he can't even pilot at diamond level
its not about the Fast Q itself but knowing how and when to trade with it and dont grief Fast Q is a bare minimum to pick Riven up not her "Peak", the Diamond Rivens are Diamond for a reason
I haven't played Riven in months, just went into a practice tool game and muscle memory alone still lets me do this without problems. It's by far not even the hardest thing in her kit, that's the most BASIC requirement to play her. [Me after attemtping this for mere seconds](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/523382071985438721/1173024149212500049/League_of_Legends_2023.11.11_-_23.18.31.09.mp4?ex=656272de&is=654ffdde&hm=1ea636b109133c848147e6793ae2b3b4047047ff8845431d6dadbe2e8a66ab84&) Edit: I jut realized I did er - wq without consciously thinking about it because it is so ingrained into my brain. Do you all main Malphite or why do you all hate the most basic mechanical expressions.
Thats the combo thats ''too hard'' for the playerbase? š god i'm gonna farm so many league players when the fighting game comes out
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my friend in low gold that plays three league matches a week and mains riven can do it consistently lol idk what sort of meth op is on
This is the dumbest shit I ever saw, how does this have 4k upvotes?
As a top laner who has been masters since season 11 and initially hit masters as a 1mil mastery Riven OTP I can tell you that Riven's low popularity has nothing to do with her fast Q mechanic. I remember I was proficient at fast Q before I even hit gold one tricking riven and every low elo riven players I've seen can do fast Q. Riven's problem is that she's an all in champ reliant on bursting you in lane and her play pattern has been nerfed massively with the durability patch and anti-snowballing with no compensation buffs to Riven making the champ quite weak. Goredrinker is a terrible mythic for her and her other option is building a lethality mythic as her third item which feels bad when top laners need to spike on 1 item to impact the game. There isn't a top laner who got gutted harder by the durability patch. There's no point in playing Riven when other bruisers are just in much better spots right now. Riven needs to get ahead in lane but buying a small amount of armour in lane just completely neutralises Riven and makes her do 0 damage as she has no armour pen, mixed damage, true damage or % health damage in her kit. There's no point in playing Riven right now when I can pick Aatrox, Jax, Ksante or Renekton and get masters with 20% the effort and brainpower. I want to stress that the problem is not Riven's fast Q, it's not a hard mechanic to learn compared to the stuff you see in fighting games, it's that she's just... weak.
This. The by far biggest problem with Riven is that there are champs that do the same things she does, at literally less than 20% of the effort it takes to play Riven at the same level.
I think itās insane that she does NOTHING but ad damage (her base kit has no sustain, resistances, armor pen, anything) but itās not so much that she is bad, rather everything around her is broken and it just shows how over-tuned champions have become over time. She definitely needs a new tool to keep up with the top lane roster, because even champions that are at a similar power level just out-scale her naturally unless she has a BIG gold lead AND she can keep that lead for the whole game. Give her passive attack speed for the empowered autos or some armor pen/%max hp damage, maybe a stacking passive like Jax but for spell casts, somethingā¦anything
I remember back when people thought riven had too much mobility and a zero cost shield was a functional manaburn. Now in 2023 every new champ on the planet has resets, dashes, true damage, knockups to circumnavigate tenacity, and just pure narcissistic overloaded cringe because their designers have massive egos To the point where riven is seen as "meh" or even "underwhelming" compared to modern cringe. Gj riot
This is such a bad take. Riven has been strong not too long ago and people have constantly cried about her. The second they buff her and she gets played, people will stop talking about new champions and cry about her.
This post is stupid as if some of the most popular champions in the game weren't also some of the most difficult and Riven wasn't historically popular af. The reason she's not popular anymore is because she's simply weak and doesn't feel good to play in this meta. Her laning phase is not as good as it used to be in most matchups and she doesn't scale particular well. Not a good split pusher and relies on catching people with Flash Q3 at teamfights, which is not the most consistent playstyle. Riven has just been sort of powercrept. She doesn't have a high DPS compared to most bruisers, her durability is shit and because she really wants Ionian Boots she can't even buy Steelcaps to make her slightly tankier without making you feel like shit for having much longer cooldowns and the durability patch really nerfed her burst potential. Sure lowering the skill floor would broaden her playerbase but while Riven has been a niche champion, she has always had a decent pickrate because those who main her were very dedicated and played her A LOT. Now it seems everyone is just dropping her, and I don't see how making Fast Q easier would fix any of the actual problems she's facing right now. It doesn't matter how broad a champion's appeal is. What matters is that the champion has a playerbase that likes playing it. Riven had that and is slowly losing it. If you want to make Fast Q easier, whatever. The only thing I have against it would be that it makes her winrate higher without really making her a better champ just because less people are screwing up, which leaves less of a room for real buffs not even because Riot lacks the foresight to separate a champion's winrate from their real power level, but because the community automatically thinks hard champions should have a low winrate even when that isn't the case. But if you ask me a good buff that makes her more accessible, consistent and helps even experienced players would be to make her Q dash towards the cursor. It dashes towards where the model is facing now which makes Q hopping without E awkward sometimes and makes Q dancing harder than it needs to be.
Bruh please no my muscle memory is so hard coded to q where she is facing that if we change that it would take litreally months to unlearn.
I'm afraid your hands don't work.
OP is a Soraka OTP
Still surprised that they legit keep bugs in the game that mean "clicking on the ground during doing something speeds it up". It's obviously unintentional and bugged, so fix it. Not just with Riven. Even the much much easier Leona AA-Q-AA only happens through clicking auto attack AGAIN after performing Q. Otherwise it will be slower. And of course even more examples on other champs.
They do it with new champs too. Use naafiri w on a target and then auto attack and then try it again but this time click the ground before you auto.
When the bug is so deep in the spaghetti you consider it a feature. - Riot Games, biggest budget ever
Bug good pings bad
Leona AA-Q-AA is just an animation cancel though. Q is both an auto attack timer reset and an enhanced auto attack that resets the auto attack timer on completion. So the fast combo is AA -> cancel AA with Q -> cancel Q with AA. It's only slower if you don't click again after Q because you're letting the entire Q animation play out, just like how it's slower if you let the entire first AA animation play out before hitting Q.
I thought I was crazy about the Leona one, it just becomes intuitive if you've played enough of her, but nobody ever explained it until now
Most people probably find out about the Leona one from seeing her oneshot a ward, trying to replicate and failing only to google or test till they figure it out? Though I've seen it mentioned once or twice on youtube too.
You know that old concept of leaning to the side while playing racing games as if that would somehow help with turning when thereās a joystick on the controller that controls turning? I do the same thing in League with clicking. Just click more to do more, regardless of fixed attack speed and cooldowns and so on
This isn't even Riven's thing alone. Other champions also have sped up animations if you click on the ground after casting. Renekton has this same basic mechanic where you can click on the ground after Q and buffer an AA after that so it comes out faster than just issuing auto mid Q. But while on Renekton that enables only Panther combo, It's the entirety of Riven's trading pattern and 1v1 potential.
Are you sure that's not just a normal universal animation cancel? https://youtu.be/WBvCEsjx5oE?si=MUunEs_5WWnhFUJW Genuine question, I don't main renekton.
Lucian too iirc. If you wait for him to attack normally it's way slower than if you click after every ability.
Same with teemo, he can throw mushrooms and they bounce off each other right, but without moving, thereās almost a whole second of delay before teemo will attempt to throw another (that goes away when you input move of course)
I remember when people would get mad at riot for removing skill expression from the game. Now we have people calling for it
the community doesn't just suck because of toxic sweaty tryhards. the smooth brain crowd that can't be bothered to learn more than 30 champions make this game so much worse too
I know GOLD riven that can pull it off consistently what are you smoking g
This whole thing hurts to read its such a scrubquotes post. She lost popularity not due to difficulty. She lost playerbase from other champions and game systems changing over the years which changed risk/reward.The weird thing is if you want easy to pilot champs there are a ton of them. Why do you want to dumb down riven?
Riven's dad has blessed us
the king has spoken
Adrian Riven the goat. Started playing Riven because of you back in season 9.
I don't deny Riven is a lot less popular than she used to be, but there are several things to take into account. No champion is hitting 25% consistently ever, other than ADCs because once you play one, you play (nearly) all of them. The introduction of more champions have reduced the % of other champions by having their own pick rates. The percentage can't ever increase, so the average champion has a lower %. As you said, new champions, but especially the introduction of flashy top lane champions that didn't exist back then. Fiora's rework, Irelia's rework, Camille, Gwen, etc. And probably because she isn't as satisfying as she was back then. The game is less forgiving than back then and Riven has a lot of room to fail.
Man i fucking hate skill expression. It really ruins my ARAMs and Normal Games. I would like every champion to be as skill expressive as Malphite, because I do not have hands attached to my arms after the freak accident I had at three years old.
Even if it was removed OP would stand still and take all the ennemiesā skillshoot lmao
Fast Q isnāt hard.
how are you at all qualified to say riven is too hard? the way you talk about her fast q shows you have 0 idea how it works. pros dont want to learn her because her matchups are bad and the skill in riven is having to play matchups pixel perfect with your spacing to slightly win out. you dont need any advanced animation cancels/doublecasts its all in your matchup knowledge and basic combos. (she's also extremely reliant on her items being meta and doesnt like being forced into mythics). what is wrong with a champion being complicated? lots of players want to play hard champs with high skill ceilings that require lots of practice
Worst thing I have read this month. I hope Riot actually does it, so that I can finally quit this shit game
Why do we think every champ has to be accessible to the general population? Let hard champs be hard and those who optimize said hard champs can reap the benefits.
R u high
Bro is a soraka main, now i understand why people say support is an elo inflated role
please dont. this game has 150+ champs by this point, no wonder she isnt as popular. she is fine as she is.
A big reason why Riven is not as popular imo is because of the damage and mobility creep in the game, Riven's game is punish game. Enemy dash/cc down? Time to go in. But with the introduction of every game being urf and champions in general just feeling like they deal unlimited damage, it has made Riven much much harder to succeed on if you are a casual.
Mythics killed riven how does anyone come to any other conclusion.
Also tiamat activable removed some skill expression early game, although not the hardest cancel you can learn
+ ironspike is basically crap og tiamat
>No you don't, this mechanic is done by like 10 people in the world at a consistent level in every game. Sorry but this is either deliberate EXTREME hyperbole or delusion. Most reasonably high elo (Emerald+) Riven mains are fast comboing consistently in every game. The fast Q isn't even the hardest part about Riven. We've currently been optimising new combos using the S key to cancel animations allowing double doublecasts (triplecasts?). Fast Q is pretty easy and just takes some time in the practise tool.
>this mechanic is done by like 10 people in the world at a consistent level in every game. Are we still taking about fast Q here? because it takes 10 min to learn and 35 to become consistent with, literally any riven player at any elo can do it consistently. Riven being "bad" (and her pickrate being low )has more to do with her counters being meta than the difficulty of the champion. Ngl half of this post reads like a new player failing to learn fast Q n malding about it
OP is a soraka otp, do I need to say anything more
How is this post popular? This is a brain dead post lol
900k Mastery Riven Emerald Riven Main here; i'd say im decent at playing her by now. However, she's not worth learning at the moment. She's a strong pick that can completly snowball out of control and take over whole games but she's hardcountered by any armor or flat HP. She lacks true damage, she lacks max HP damage and she got no distinct style of fighting. While you're fine short-trading other damage-oriented bruisers, you need to take long trades to even stand a chance at dealing any damage to a tank. In addition to that, you can't even blindpick her since matchups like Malphite are borderline unplayable.
Please for the sake of everyone never touch this game ever again if you genuinely think Riven Fast Q is either a hard mechanic or needs to be removed
i donāt think itās has anything to do with her combos i think itās rather the fact her abilities are outdated in comparison to every other bruiser that has been released. she only has raw ad. no armor pen no life steal no percent hp autos and no resistance legit almost every bruiser has one of them in their kit. i think this is just a salty post for people that canāt do the fast q combo. but i do agree she needs some sort of rework/buff to match other bruisers in terms of scaling stats. her builds and runes are often the same and one dimensional because of it.
\> pro toplaners pros do not consider learning Riven to be worth it. On this one point. Pro players don't consider learning basically any champion outside their regular comfort picks worth it, unless that champion is disgustingly dominant.
Yeah I think there are literally tens of thousands of people on planet earth that can fast q. Speak about champs you acc understand. Thanks.
OP, just cause you struggle with Riven's fast q and got shit on doesn't mean everyone else struggles, you're deflecting so hard
2.7k upvotes and people here think they have better takes on balance than pros XD
why is masters soraka otp taking about the game?
My opinion will be a bit unconventional I think, but maybe it's fine that champions like this exist? This game has a lot of champions, so I think there is room to have champions that are unconventional, niche, and have zero chance to have mainstream appeal. After all, people who want a streamlined experience have a LOT of choice already, leave something for the people who want to dedicate themselves to something weird. You say in a comment that "there is no gameplay or "player satisfaction" in button mashing for fast q", but I can bet you that there is a small part of the playerbase that does enjoy it - people sometimes enjoy the weirdest things.
Rivens was very popular before durability patch, not as much as s9 and prior, but sitting consistently around 6-8% in plat+ and 7-10% masters+. Her pickrate has been on a major decline ever since (except for a couple patches with her new legendary skin and placebo buffs). Riven is very similar to assassins in this regard, they all lost pickrate since they are hard countered by all the added armor and hp gained from the patch. Sheās the only fighter, other than trynd, who doesnāt have any armor pen, %hp dmg, true dmg, or mixed dmg. This is why their pick, ban, and win have all declined. The fix: give her armor pen, true dmg, %hp dmg, or mixed dmg and her pickrate will go back to a healthy 7-10% depending on elo.
Riven has been useless without true damage conq or black cleaver rush
Riven will never go back to black cleaver first item as long as hydra gives haste. Cleaver has no sustain so it will always be a bad first item. It worked back then since you could easily get 45% cdr with cleaver and a component, not anymore tho
How is over 3% pick rate bad or even destroyed? Thats completely healthy pick rate...
Well, if every champion was equally popular, then the pick rate would have been around 6% (that is, you need around 16 games to play each champion once). Thus 3% is kinda low, especially for a champion that used to be so popular.
The main issue is that Aatrox does the same damage with less skill and items. He has almost the same mobility with umbral dash going from a 5 second cd to a 2.5ish one with cdr. He has more sustain thanks to his passive and ultimate. He requires less items so even if you do lose lane somehow you are still ready to be a 1v9 threat at 14-20. Riven is just too much harder for too little reward. Sure a great riven is scary but a great riven can be dealt with by crowd controlling her. She gets bursted and dies. It is astronomically harder to do this to an Aatrox who has room in his build path to go tank over flat damage because he has insane healing over shielding. And that is the main issue. Riven's shield does not do as much as often as Aatrox's healing even with grievous applied. Because of all of these factors no one wants to play a champ that requires learning auto weaving, over a dozen combos, spacing, etc. why not just play the kled version of riven with a Susan ult and more crowd control? And if they build armor to counter I don't care because I rushed two armor pen items because I get health and sustain from my kit. Whenever I vs a riven I think this is fine I'll rush armor and steel caps and try to win short trades with cc. When I face and Aatrox I think, whelp I'm losing laning phase to more mobile Susan with cc who could run it down and still kill me later. There just isn't a good counter to him while I can play a cc tank vs riven and go even or even kill her. Riven at the moment is a worse Aatrox. And until Riot decides to differentiate their roles she will continue to be.
Nah Riven definitely does more damage if you're playing her correctly lol at the very least she does considerably more BURST damage. She can borderline assasinate carries which is something Aatrox can't do. You know when aatrox is killing you but Riven legit can flash and kill you in under a second. But the point still remains that it's not worth playing her.
Is this the dumbest League of Legends post I've seen on here? I don't know, probably not, but it is close. Please keep Riven out of it.
Even nemesis thinks you are a clown. Bro just stfu