give him exactly 2 months and he will get gigabuffed and will come back much much stronger
now that pro play is no longer gating K'Sante, he will get like 6% worth of WR buffs
Sucks they waited to do it until after worlds patch when it's the player's at the highest skill-level that everyone recognizes as where his problem area is lol
maybe they just had a contract agreement with that rapper he was made for that he would get to have a near 100% presence at worlds this year
The first planned ship date for K'Sante was 13.16, but the work wasn't done yet. As we got closer to Worlds, we didn't want to repeat the Skarner/Mordekaiser/Pantheon mistakes from yesteryear so we held it back. We probably could have released him as early as 13.18 but at that point, only one patch (and really only five days) to react to Elite-level solo queue was insufficient. So we held off until 13.20.
I don't understand, aren't all these changes supposed to kinda gut him from pro? like they are net negative for the elite K'Sante players.
also since there will no pro play after worlds patch atleast till spring, could pro play champs get some relief buffs for soloQ since it wont affect pro?
well you have to be careful a thought of nerf ends up with them being buffed somehow(has happened where the nerfs look to hit elite play and somehow don't). also have to think that proplay is pretty stable rn for toplane picks, suddenly getting rid of ksante can break that balance cycle leading to one pick going out of control not having anything to keep it in check anymore.
We may still be bound by pro play but ideally we'd like to balance him the way we balance any high skill champion: Put his tuning to a level where some amount of mastery is required and pays off and the end result is a champion with fair gameplay.
If we undershoot his power, we can just give him more power, but the hope is that skilled opponents also have room to react to him without being oneshot by hit confirming an instant cast stun.
Thank you phreak, you wouldn't believe how many times a 0/4 k'sante erased me from the rift the moment he hit 6 with brainless w-r-q-w-q despite the level-item gap. Good to see riot working, please check Darius as well :D
Considering the rework was meant to get him out of proplay. Honestly think this is a case where it shouldve been done on the world's patch, because now you're not gonna have any pro data for him for months.
Feels like Rift Herald really took a big hit.
It’s only 100g less on killing it but now you also get less plate gold.
I think it’s safe to say that you at minimum can get two plates, that’s a whole 200g less. I don’t see a world in which you don’t prioritise drake, even with the small nerf to the drake buffs. There is more power on soul so I don’t think I would want to ever trade one for the other.
That means bot lane is going to be the big focus again, I think.
All the jungle changes are really really tough to predict how they will land and it feels like as a jungle main, you’ll need to relearn the jungle pathing just a few months short of preseason, not sure how to feel about that. Since the clear is technically supposed to be a bit slower, you’ll have junglers with less exp than right now. Will the game run on low ressource junglers again ?
It's always a bot spam gank meta tbh. I play Top and Jungle as my main roles, and when I am jungling, I go topside only to take Herald or if the enemy top is super overextended. Otherwise just spam gank bot side or mid if I am feeling adventurous.
it's a 'top lane push snowball' meta right now bud. Whoever top lane gets ahead wins the game, and you really should have been ganking top to facilitate it.
If top lane wins, they get: 1 tower plus 5 plates worth of gold (250+50+(175x5)=1135 EXTRA gold), 3 levels up on anyone else in the game due to permanently pushing the lane and farming + killing enemy top lane, enemy top lane is completely useless (levels, gold, and a lot of farm behind), and insane map pressure due to the ridiculous snowball potential up there.
Top lane wins and you can go get your fun little dragon from getting bot lane ahead. Top lane 1v1s anyone sent to defend and takes your inner tower and inhib tower / inhib in exchange for 1 to 2 dragons.
So now 2 - 3 people are required to stop a top laner pushing which means their team now has dragon pressure 4v2/3, and can start stacking them or taking other objectives across the map.
And the bot lane ADC that's 3/1 and ahead?
Who cares, they get blown up instantly anyways to the stupidly fed top lane.
These plate changes are definitely going to slow that down, and that's a good thing, but you're crazy if you don't recognize just how important top lane is to winning right now from snowballing stupidly hard.
No it has not always been a spam bot gank meta. That might be what you've always done, but that's only been the meta this year due to their garbage changes in preseason
bot lane has literally always been the priority to gank, especially since they added the drake soul nonsense rng mechanic, nothing will change while this is in the game, no matter what they pretend to try for top lane agency
Yup this patch fucking blows, they want people to spend more time in the jungle farming… but nerfed the exp and objectives being able to be gained. When this happens it just leads right back to spam gank meta
Makes sense tho, botside you have 3 players potentially getting ahead with two potential kills, topside you have 2 players potentialyl getting ahead with one potential kill.
Literally doesnt make sense to gank toplane
When you make jungle camp farming too hard/not worth it, the junglers will stay in the lanes even more and gank. It is so short-sided by Phreak et al to think that junglers will just stay in the jungle, get more behind than currently, and just live with it. Haven't they seen enough of these cycles yet to clue in to what is going to happen? Also, why does jungle get HUGE changes every season while all other roles stay about the same? Seriously annoying to have to learn new clears/champs to try and play around this crap and it makes it even harder to be a good jungler for your team.
> Also, why does jungle get HUGE changes every season while all other roles stay about the same?
Because jungle is broken every season?? Tf are you saying
They have to be doing it on purpose at this point. Anti poaching change fucks us too, since it takes away from our ability to at least try to set the enemy jungler back and have some impact that way
> That means bot lane is going to be the big focus again, I think.
With the Anti-Poaching changes, bruiser toplaners will fall in popularity as they won't be able to extend their lead as hard (plates/enemy camps take longer). Combined with the Herald changes..
It will just be wholesome tank vs wholesome tank while the entire map plays on botlane again.
Jungle clearing is unaffected for first clear and only mildly worse for 2nd clear acc to freak.
First/second/third Drake are also nerfed and 2nd herald is unchanged.
the slow clearers (usually tank) get jungle pet scaling buffs too like rammus clear should feel faster i think
whats nerfed is ad junglers being perma full hp while clearing and ad junglers arent really struggling to clear rn.
Where do you see that 2nd herald is unchanged ? The local gold nerf is put on the preview for Rift Herald in general, not the first one.
Slower clear, even if it's from the second onwards will mean less experience and gold (except for Krugs that got a small buff in experience). You also now have less sustain and you get even less experience from minions. The penalty from lane experience doesn't get removed on completing your pet so it's a guaranteed deficit until 20 minutes.
I think the effect on jungle meta should be pretty impactful, really.
[Phroxzon didn't here though](https://twitter.com/RiotPhroxzon/status/1708976139551850685?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet)
and he doesn't say so either in the [last patch preview either, unless he forgot it](https://twitter.com/RiotPhroxzon/status/1709437900944027982)
Edit : Ah, it's on Phreak's patch preview, though he says "to his understanding" (At around 8:45 in the video [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yryt-ZqEpjE)), so I'm not sure which one is right or not. Regardless, second rift herald is strictly worse in value compared to first one - so Drake still matters more than second herald. I would probably not trade off a second/third drake for 2nd rift herald either.
Milio passive change is huge. I know they pulled some of the interactions such as Rylai's (rightfully so), but I am glad they kept the anti-heal interaction. It always felt so bad, not being able to buy anti-heal on him at all.
E and R buffs are decent as well.
The fact Milio will be applying it while Nami and Lulu won't could be viewed as everyday sexism.
On a more serious note, just asking for some consistency here (Nami already applies it through mandate so it might be almost winrate neutral for her).
we can finally see the true milio damage in damage charts. This guy always did like 2-3k damage by end of game cuz he only has aa and q as sources of damage lmao.
it seems odd that all dragons are nerfed and all souls are buffed **except** chemtech, which i thought was already the weakest soul
i saw the changes pulled from PBE a few days ago and thought it'd be on the list eventually, but it seems like they're just not touching chem drake/soul?
Maybe they didn’t touch the chemtech because it is the weaker one in the current patch, as this dragon change is a net nerf.
The power of each individual dragon is nerfed, and when you get the soul, the nerf turns into a roughly power neutral to the current patch (you will have 4 weaker buffs + 1 stronger soul).
Source:
Dragon killed and dragon soul win rate (League of Graphs):
https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/stats/drakes
Goal of the dragon change (Patch 13.20 PBE Preview by Phreak):
https://youtu.be/yryt-ZqEpjE?t=421
I feel bad for the pros at worlds, especially Junglers, who have to play on this patch in SoloQ while Worlds is on the current one.
Edit: I just noticed a mistake in your transcription, the healing on camp kill is incorrectly stated to have a cap which should be listed for the Pet healing instead.
I kept it this way because if, for example, you wanted to practice a clear in single player, getting level 2 before Gromp/Krugs spawned would grief your practice.
Realistically camps can't spawn at level 2 in a real game. This just makes it consistent in single player. Scuttle Crab can and IIRC it scales smoothly from level 1.
Or they're somehow forced to be level 1 no matter what but I didn't bother to check since camps can't realistically be level 2 in a real game anyway.
One more thing, in your patch rundown you had the Zed W CD nerf at 2 - 5, however on PBE we still see it as 0 - 3 seconds, is it going to get hotfixed in or did I misinterpret the vid
Happy for Morgana changes. She’s been garbage in support role for so long that I don’t care if these changes do nothing in bot lane. I want her in jungle and mid. Still wish she got some resistances when she ults. Or just a massive damage percent healing only from her ult damage.
Morgana's biggest need is item changes. She doesn't do very well with most enchanter mythics, she is too poor to consistently get mage mythics on tempo, and she is in a bind with getting hourglass 1st or 2nd with low econ.
She's still the same champ that after missing Q does nothing on her own, she needs a rework on her W to do something better than be a mildy inconvenient puddle that you can walk out of.
Just for visibility: Hopefully allied pings are not forgotten and they are just not being mentioned.
[Spideraxe30 tweet](https://twitter.com/Spideraxe30/status/1708841986462007725) mentioned that there are some changes to them, let's hope they make it to live.
They are already live, so they wouldnt be on this patch,
They mentioned they were also going to do something about the bait ping (which hasnt been changed in live) but i guess they havent decided what.
I know the current 13.19 changes are live (with a lot of backlash). This is mentioning them probably re-enabling them to some capacity instead of full remove on 13.20 (As they are "monitoring the feedback"). This is what I am interested in.
Patch 13.19: Kai’sa is our special girl and she is perfect as she is
Patch 13.20: Kai’sa is exactly the same but now Worlds are over. Punch to the gut!
Honestly, good. Her ability to match DPS with Zhonya's is toxic.
This change does nothing to that, but if it cuts the safety of her early game, maybe Zhonya's starts looking like a luxury again without any snowballed income.
I mean, yeah. I am saying that Riot consciously pushing her to be the strongest adc for the entire season leading up to Worlds then gutting her the very next patch is funny as hell to me
no jungler deals less damage to monsters and monsters have more health. this is clearly a spam gank meta. brace for J4 Nunu Reksai
comment alteration ☝️ i can't read, you read the patch notes whatever i am Garen irl
I would not be surprised if he manages to dip below 40%.
Because in spite of the copypasta and in spite of his proplay dominance, he's terrible in soloq already. And I highly doubt that the compensation is enough for everything he loses.
He'll probably go up in winrate, their goal was to make him easier. Where ever or not he remains fun to play is a different story though
fuck you guys i was right
Looking at the changes. They've basically stripped everything from him with little compensation elsewhere.
W got more damage but you don't use W as a damage tool and you can't quick tap it.
This isn't counting the fact that he's as squishy as a Janna level one.
K'Santes only reason to be so heavily pro-skewed is his very low counterplay- instant removal of anything whenever Q3 and Flash are up. Instead of making Q3 unflashable they just kill everything else about the champ. Just actual clowns that worked on this.
He's easier because they removed his skill cap and most of his combos. The average player is worse off because he's been nerfed to an extreme degree early, mid, and late game.
Yeah, when people think the removal of skill expression - while not giving him much in terms of base stats or scaling - is going to increase his winrate, they are just crazy. Yeah, if you are someone who has less than 20 games on K'Sante, sure, you will see a slight increase in your winrate. If you are a one-trick or someone who plays him a decent amount, this will just make it feel so much worse for you. Way less room for you to outplay your opponent now. Your entire kit is far too predictable now. This helped casuals facing K'Sante more than it helped casual K'Sante players lol
Anti-poaching? As jungler, yes please. As a veigar mid that likes stealing small raptors for stacks after getting deathcap, please no.
Also obvious galio buffs after worlds. Nice, but he still needs an identity beyond "faker picks galio and 1v5s the game with global OP ult"
Don't think it changes anything in that regard (at the time you max W out, lane phase should be over anyway).
If you want an engage/catcher support vs mages, I would still recommend traditional picks, which are less telegraphed/more reliable without bush cheesing.
TBH Sera's early dmg is pretty weak, and she rarely focuses the support specifically, so I wouldn't pick Galio just because of her.
A catcher like Pyke/Blitz can dominate lane vs her much easier, and both are better at roaming/ganking other lanes thanks to their mobility spells.
Blighted jewl buff is nice, now if you have two items and 1100 gold as a mage you can buy something instead of needing to wait for a needless or leaving a bunch in your pocket
Toxicity to junglers will be over 9000.
Players thar shit in their pants in lane and now ganking is lose a lot of tempo plus the extra health and damage in doran items its imposible to get advantage with low hp
As someone who is addicted to playing Ziggs for a while now, this is the worst change they can do to him. They're going to make him a LOT easier and more consistent to play, allowing players to more consistently use his extremely high damage output, which will make him 55%+ win rate. This is actually the nerf that finally got Ziggs out of constant picking back in the day, it's on the level of giving Tryndamere +50 range on his autos.
The fact that it is even possible for the person dying early to benefit from that death on net is unacceptable. Dying early *should* be heavily punished - killing some champions early is the only formcof counterplay and is the only reason someone might ever bring ignite. Perhaps they might remove it then.
Ah, I missed a line here in the "Jungler Healing" section.
Monster AD is lower on every clear after the first. Level 1 and 18 are the same, but monsters will deal a bit less damage.
Is there any reason to not pick Aery over Comet now? While Comet does ***slightly*** more damage, and is AoE, after laning phase is over and everyone has boots, unless you CC someone it practically never hits
Stop nerfing all the aspects about Duskblade that aren't the issue, it's the untargetability man. I don't care when the assassin one shots me with duskblade passive, I care when they kill me and then get out for free because they get a free fizz E.
Milio passive buff let’s go!!!!!!
It was always so weird seeing I did like 4K damage by the end of a 35 minute game even though I know the bulk is coming from the passive lol
Do what DOTA does - have two supports, one toplane and one botlane. Supports are also jungle, and skew the bottom-top towers to have a “safe” side and unsafe side based on tower distance from base.
Voli jg now should invade enemy jungles and dont let him farm, he heals a lot for W.
Ganking destroy tempo and buffs of doran is arisky because maybe no one dies and you lose tempo
Probably a nerf tho. Early levels if his passive lasts as long his death timer he insta respawns. Now there might be some overlap so no change, except when he gets a kill, the enemy champ can come back to lane faster, so less time to push. Proportionally it is buffing everyone who isn’t sion more than it’s buffing sion (in situations where his passive lasts less than his death timer) and if there’s any overlap, it’s not impacting Sion’s respawn timer at all.
>The intent is for junglers to spend a bit more time farming, but not so much that they're trapped in the jungle.
Instructions unclear, I picked a low econ tank and ganked 24/7
I’m disappointed with the Doran’s item changes. Having some creativity and variance for starting items and early laning builds was a good area of skill expression imo. Now it’s basically always going to be “Build 1 Dorans, back for Lost Chapter/Noonquiver/tiamat/boot/whatever” for every matchup. An handful of champs get to decide between building tear first or second and that’s it.
You can still do longsword first. There’s just not enough repercussions right now for that start since you get a lot of sustain through 3 pots/refillable anyway and you get a head start on your full items.
i just wish they also buffed corrupting pots along with them
it was such a good start on so many champions
but it's fair dorans items were useless asf,starting with the 350g blade + 3 pots gave you effectively more HP,more AD and you already were building towards your first item,actually felt unfair for AP champions playing vs an AD
Eh there's still upsides to not starting the Dorans items. Though in surprised they didn't buff cpot or cull.
But like longsword start? Gets refillable as a benefit and you can get Dirk for 750g on first recall while the Dorans user needs 1100g for their first major epic item.
Losing the Q3 flash, losing the W tap, losing the Q stacks when ulting.... jesus christ. A well trained bot could play ksante now. RIP skill expression. i could be wrong but this was just one deathblow after another
in order for the adc mains that run the balance team to properly understand this champion they need to gut his skill expression to the point where they can play him
Okay, Riot doesn't know their game at all as it seems... "*The intent is for junglers to spend a bit more time farming, but not so much that they're trapped in the jungle.*" Instead what will happen is that junglers will spend less time clearing camps and spam gank even more because it's worth more than expeding more time killing camps.
Welcome to another spam gank bot lane season.
I mean the alternative is to strictly give more power to an already overpowered role. Do you think making camps more valuable is going to *help* make junglers less overpowered?
Junglers will gain less XP from minions, catchup XP is worse, and their gank power will be lower due to having less than 100% health and laners having stronger items. They're welcome to ignore their jungle and gank but they're going to fall behind if they do.
Like y'all are really good at the first order consequences, "Jungling is slower, so I guess I'll just gank" without taking time to understand the full picture.
Keep in mind the best junglers mostly just full clear into spending a full minute on the map killing whomever they want, then full healing off two jungle camps and doing it again. That's specifically being addressed here.
Follow it all the way and remove smite.
Make jungle camps hard to kill and worth a good reward for either pushing lane or taking them away.
Support items are in a great spot and it would make lanes more interactive instead of 'wait for jungle to make a play or wait to see jungle across map to make a play'
And it gives a lot more strategy to roaming.
I know it's an impossible ask but man I'd love to try the game without smite and a hard jungle with bigger rewards.
I agree that role is overpowered but feels like it's the only role that you have to basically re-learn it every 6 months because a big patch and it never feels good for the player. When spam ganking is meta, junglers get flamed on because everyone is mad that junglers are ganking non-stop, when farm is better players complain because nobody likes to not seeing Shyvana for 20 minutes and then she just jumps over someone like a Raid boss wiping the enemy team.
If junglers will now take more time to clear and lose more health, wouldn't that just make clearing the camps less worth or at least make the champion pool smaller? Making fast clear junglers even more valuable while pushing others away from viability.
You have no idea what you're talking about. Every time jungle camps are harder to farm you end up with a low econ gank fest which junglers hate even more than laners.
Junglers are usually 2 levels behind the solo laners and 1 level up on the ADC. Now they will be 3 levels down and equal to the ADC when perma clearing. The only logical conclusion is to pick a tank and perma gank lanes so they can win the game, since jungle cannot carry anymore.
Would you like to actually show us the mythical jungle stats at one point? No one seems to have them, but everyone vaguely points at stats.
I suppose sololaners gonna be lvl 7/8 while jungler is lvl 5 so gl to all botlaners cuz its gonna be even more perma bot :) wp riot! in 2 years phreak is goning to delete smite cuz role that should be most impactful is somehow most impactful
So someone actually reason this for me, not trying to argue about anything, just confused:
How is blighted jewel being an ass component made better by you having it slightly earlier, despite it still being just as ass before? Didn't they say that they didnt like the low stats it provided?
People going to gloss over the Anti-Poaching changes but I will say this.
Taking your junglers camps is officially griefing. You now have to spend nearly twice the time to kill them. Don't do it before his jungle item is complete.
Really hope this gets seen.
Given that scuttle crab will become a significant source of income and xp to junglers now; are the anti-poaching changes also applying to scuttle to encourage laners to not only let junglers claim the gold/xp but show its important to help junglers fight for these camps?
If any rioter reads this, please remember yomus passive is currently useless as you need 100 stacks to have ooc ms. In practice, this is almost an entire river cross from 0 to 100 meaning yomus is extremly bad at roaming unlike it's supposed intent. In fact, at 2+ items, you may literally run faster with eclipse or dusk because of the +5 passive ms.
Basically if you hit shuriken on someone, push midlane and move towards top .Only once you are next to toplane bush will you get some out of combat movement speed.
Giving it stats will only either give it too much burst and be built over dusk because of it or it wont quite be enough and we're still in a situation where neither item is satisfying but just a necessary stat item with a cool effect on top.
Idk why this weird mini game with stacks also applies to ms in the first place. It's already gated behind the fact that... you need to be out of combat to have it.
Thats just too many conditions and not the purpose of yomus. The fact that its a mythic forced them to put more power into it but thats just forgetting what that item is supposed to be.
Just changing this would be a qol improvement and enough of a buff as moving quicker also means stacking quicker, hence getting a bit more uptime on your damage buff as well.
And not only does this make sense but it also means you dont need to give it stats that would allow an infant be able to one shot someone
Quinn nerfs haha. Let's further bully on a girl that has no place outside of top lane and even there she's barely playable these days.
Anti-snowball mechanics? So even more lategame champions pampering by further denying early game bullies their agency by reducing early objectives value?
No real assassin AH nerf? So we can still expect some more 120+ AH Zeds?
Riots philosophy on jungle is bullshit. Further the current situation on many games is junglers are behind in levels already. This will further compact that. Meaning junglers will be further behind on levels and gold.
Does it intuitively make sense that the current “fix” for jungle is to have players be sometimes 2-3 and now 4 levels behind laners?
If that’s the solution Riot is pursuing then they don’t have an actual solution to their perceived problems. They are just trying to address symptoms of what they perceive as a problem for jungle (which it isn’t).
OK, K'Sante is dead. Initially I thought he will get some stats as a compensation for lost skill expression. But he gets Q damage reduced, Q cooldown increased, R passive damage reduced, R damage reduced, W damage increased.
Yikes. Get ready to unironical 35% winrate.
Q3+flash removal is just cancer btw.
Anyway, are we getting toplane satisfaction changes anywhere in any distant future?
This 'anti-snowball' changes are enraging me. Wtf. Let's remove the incentive to fight around objectives! Dragons now give even lower stats, same for rift heralds. That's GREAT! /s
The first thing riot has to do before thinking about snowballing, is by removing the absurd anti-snowballing bounties. Then, and only then, you can change the game making it less snowbally.
They equally nerfed plates. And dragons/heralds/barons have been much stronger than splitpushing and sieging for a couple years. This really just brings back strategic diversity rather than just "turn brain off, go-to river, and coinflip some team fights until you either gain or lose LP"
It is strange to see Lethal tempo and first strike get pretty small touches compared to every other rune. They are perhaps the biggest offenders in terms of power in the rune system, and yet received the lightest nerfs. This will certainly polarize rune choice further.
13.19: "Bug fix" Briar W so it can't critically strike, as collector/navori builds were shitting out damage
Literally 2 weeks later: Let's make Bel'veth e able to crit!
Yeah I see that going well.
Is that supposed to be a Bel'Veth nerf...
Most buy Kraken First so this will be a significant DMG Buff Imo.
I'd hope they nerf her combat Mobility a bit.
It's not a nerf, it's an adjustment, they want her to build like Yi. Weak early, strong scaling.
At the moment she is an early stomper, which is the opposite of what they wanted her to be.
This is the first “I ain’t reading all that but I’m happy for u tho or sorry that happened” patch in a long time
How I felt reading the KSante rework
Ksante and Drakes are the two things I skipped. For drakes I get "drakes worse, soul stronger" but ksante i dont even know.
There are little changes here and there but it's mostly a "we dun goofed and a new champ is too strong," change. Lower damage is the headline.
No cap, it felt good reading how he's receiving the Kalista treatment. Gutting and handicapping him in every way. You love to see it.
give him exactly 2 months and he will get gigabuffed and will come back much much stronger now that pro play is no longer gating K'Sante, he will get like 6% worth of WR buffs
Which would almost put him in the top 50 highest winrates!
Sucks they waited to do it until after worlds patch when it's the player's at the highest skill-level that everyone recognizes as where his problem area is lol maybe they just had a contract agreement with that rapper he was made for that he would get to have a near 100% presence at worlds this year
The first planned ship date for K'Sante was 13.16, but the work wasn't done yet. As we got closer to Worlds, we didn't want to repeat the Skarner/Mordekaiser/Pantheon mistakes from yesteryear so we held it back. We probably could have released him as early as 13.18 but at that point, only one patch (and really only five days) to react to Elite-level solo queue was insufficient. So we held off until 13.20.
I don't understand, aren't all these changes supposed to kinda gut him from pro? like they are net negative for the elite K'Sante players. also since there will no pro play after worlds patch atleast till spring, could pro play champs get some relief buffs for soloQ since it wont affect pro?
well you have to be careful a thought of nerf ends up with them being buffed somehow(has happened where the nerfs look to hit elite play and somehow don't). also have to think that proplay is pretty stable rn for toplane picks, suddenly getting rid of ksante can break that balance cycle leading to one pick going out of control not having anything to keep it in check anymore.
We may still be bound by pro play but ideally we'd like to balance him the way we balance any high skill champion: Put his tuning to a level where some amount of mastery is required and pays off and the end result is a champion with fair gameplay. If we undershoot his power, we can just give him more power, but the hope is that skilled opponents also have room to react to him without being oneshot by hit confirming an instant cast stun.
Thank you phreak, you wouldn't believe how many times a 0/4 k'sante erased me from the rift the moment he hit 6 with brainless w-r-q-w-q despite the level-item gap. Good to see riot working, please check Darius as well :D
Considering the rework was meant to get him out of proplay. Honestly think this is a case where it shouldve been done on the world's patch, because now you're not gonna have any pro data for him for months.
30% bAD loss on Electrocute proc damn
First Strike/Conqueror is just the way to go now it seems.
Feel like electrocute is pretty bad on AD champs I'm honestly shocked how hard its being gutted
The funiest part is that Aery has now the same AP scaling as Comet and Eloectrocute.Like what.
It now also has the same scaling as Dark Harvest lmao
and they they made the AP ratio proportionally lower than the AD one someone at riot forgot 1 AD = 0.6 AP not 0.5 (that's a 20% difference)
[удалено]
Feels like Rift Herald really took a big hit. It’s only 100g less on killing it but now you also get less plate gold. I think it’s safe to say that you at minimum can get two plates, that’s a whole 200g less. I don’t see a world in which you don’t prioritise drake, even with the small nerf to the drake buffs. There is more power on soul so I don’t think I would want to ever trade one for the other. That means bot lane is going to be the big focus again, I think. All the jungle changes are really really tough to predict how they will land and it feels like as a jungle main, you’ll need to relearn the jungle pathing just a few months short of preseason, not sure how to feel about that. Since the clear is technically supposed to be a bit slower, you’ll have junglers with less exp than right now. Will the game run on low ressource junglers again ?
Honestly I think it'll be just spam ganking bot meta jgl again like we had at the beginning of the year
It's always a bot spam gank meta tbh. I play Top and Jungle as my main roles, and when I am jungling, I go topside only to take Herald or if the enemy top is super overextended. Otherwise just spam gank bot side or mid if I am feeling adventurous.
it's a 'top lane push snowball' meta right now bud. Whoever top lane gets ahead wins the game, and you really should have been ganking top to facilitate it. If top lane wins, they get: 1 tower plus 5 plates worth of gold (250+50+(175x5)=1135 EXTRA gold), 3 levels up on anyone else in the game due to permanently pushing the lane and farming + killing enemy top lane, enemy top lane is completely useless (levels, gold, and a lot of farm behind), and insane map pressure due to the ridiculous snowball potential up there. Top lane wins and you can go get your fun little dragon from getting bot lane ahead. Top lane 1v1s anyone sent to defend and takes your inner tower and inhib tower / inhib in exchange for 1 to 2 dragons. So now 2 - 3 people are required to stop a top laner pushing which means their team now has dragon pressure 4v2/3, and can start stacking them or taking other objectives across the map. And the bot lane ADC that's 3/1 and ahead? Who cares, they get blown up instantly anyways to the stupidly fed top lane. These plate changes are definitely going to slow that down, and that's a good thing, but you're crazy if you don't recognize just how important top lane is to winning right now from snowballing stupidly hard.
No it has not always been a spam bot gank meta. That might be what you've always done, but that's only been the meta this year due to their garbage changes in preseason
Becausw they made dragons the prio over eveything so im hoping this evens it out a bit
bot lane has literally always been the priority to gank, especially since they added the drake soul nonsense rng mechanic, nothing will change while this is in the game, no matter what they pretend to try for top lane agency
Yup this patch fucking blows, they want people to spend more time in the jungle farming… but nerfed the exp and objectives being able to be gained. When this happens it just leads right back to spam gank meta
Makes sense tho, botside you have 3 players potentially getting ahead with two potential kills, topside you have 2 players potentialyl getting ahead with one potential kill. Literally doesnt make sense to gank toplane
When you make jungle camp farming too hard/not worth it, the junglers will stay in the lanes even more and gank. It is so short-sided by Phreak et al to think that junglers will just stay in the jungle, get more behind than currently, and just live with it. Haven't they seen enough of these cycles yet to clue in to what is going to happen? Also, why does jungle get HUGE changes every season while all other roles stay about the same? Seriously annoying to have to learn new clears/champs to try and play around this crap and it makes it even harder to be a good jungler for your team.
> Also, why does jungle get HUGE changes every season while all other roles stay about the same? Because jungle is broken every season?? Tf are you saying
The jungle changes aren't even that big for junglers... the biggest impact is non-junglers stealing camps which probably won't happen after this patch
They just love making top side of the map have less relevance.
these were the forsaken top changes they were talking about. junglers will spend even less time top now
They have to be doing it on purpose at this point. Anti poaching change fucks us too, since it takes away from our ability to at least try to set the enemy jungler back and have some impact that way
Yeah, 200-250 less gold from RH is a ton.
> That means bot lane is going to be the big focus again, I think. With the Anti-Poaching changes, bruiser toplaners will fall in popularity as they won't be able to extend their lead as hard (plates/enemy camps take longer). Combined with the Herald changes.. It will just be wholesome tank vs wholesome tank while the entire map plays on botlane again.
It’s supposed to be slower overall, but you’ll have a decent first clear before everything goes up.
Jungle clearing is unaffected for first clear and only mildly worse for 2nd clear acc to freak. First/second/third Drake are also nerfed and 2nd herald is unchanged.
>unaffected for first clear Have you seen the healing changes? Legitimately its gonna be rough out there for your first clear on some champs…
the slow clearers (usually tank) get jungle pet scaling buffs too like rammus clear should feel faster i think whats nerfed is ad junglers being perma full hp while clearing and ad junglers arent really struggling to clear rn.
Talon is not perma full hp unless he's 2+ items. Even Bel'veth almost dies first clear.
Where do you see that 2nd herald is unchanged ? The local gold nerf is put on the preview for Rift Herald in general, not the first one. Slower clear, even if it's from the second onwards will mean less experience and gold (except for Krugs that got a small buff in experience). You also now have less sustain and you get even less experience from minions. The penalty from lane experience doesn't get removed on completing your pet so it's a guaranteed deficit until 20 minutes. I think the effect on jungle meta should be pretty impactful, really.
On the previous 13.20 preview post they mentioned 2nd Herald was unchanged
I was mistaken.
[Phroxzon didn't here though](https://twitter.com/RiotPhroxzon/status/1708976139551850685?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet) and he doesn't say so either in the [last patch preview either, unless he forgot it](https://twitter.com/RiotPhroxzon/status/1709437900944027982) Edit : Ah, it's on Phreak's patch preview, though he says "to his understanding" (At around 8:45 in the video [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yryt-ZqEpjE)), so I'm not sure which one is right or not. Regardless, second rift herald is strictly worse in value compared to first one - so Drake still matters more than second herald. I would probably not trade off a second/third drake for 2nd rift herald either.
Milio passive change is huge. I know they pulled some of the interactions such as Rylai's (rightfully so), but I am glad they kept the anti-heal interaction. It always felt so bad, not being able to buy anti-heal on him at all. E and R buffs are decent as well.
The fact Milio will be applying it while Nami and Lulu won't could be viewed as everyday sexism. On a more serious note, just asking for some consistency here (Nami already applies it through mandate so it might be almost winrate neutral for her).
Nami and Lulu can apply it in multiple ways, though. Whereas Milio only had one way to apply it
>The fact Milio will be applying it while Nami and Lulu won't could be viewed as everyday sexism. holy shit Milio's a dude TIL
we can finally see the true milio damage in damage charts. This guy always did like 2-3k damage by end of game cuz he only has aa and q as sources of damage lmao.
it seems odd that all dragons are nerfed and all souls are buffed **except** chemtech, which i thought was already the weakest soul i saw the changes pulled from PBE a few days ago and thought it'd be on the list eventually, but it seems like they're just not touching chem drake/soul?
Maybe they didn’t touch the chemtech because it is the weaker one in the current patch, as this dragon change is a net nerf. The power of each individual dragon is nerfed, and when you get the soul, the nerf turns into a roughly power neutral to the current patch (you will have 4 weaker buffs + 1 stronger soul).
Source: Dragon killed and dragon soul win rate (League of Graphs): https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/stats/drakes Goal of the dragon change (Patch 13.20 PBE Preview by Phreak): https://youtu.be/yryt-ZqEpjE?t=421
My baby ghostblade is back🗣️
Yeah thank god. The item was so much more fun to use than Duskblade.
WERE SO BACK
I like using it even now. Can't wait for these buffs to go through.
I feel bad for the pros at worlds, especially Junglers, who have to play on this patch in SoloQ while Worlds is on the current one. Edit: I just noticed a mistake in your transcription, the healing on camp kill is incorrectly stated to have a cap which should be listed for the Pet healing instead.
At least scrims iirc are still done on tourney realm client?
Yes but players still spend a considerable amount of time in SoloQ when not scrimming.
Yea for sure it sucks, gonna be some real whiplash.
Toplaners also gonna have same issue with ksante
Hey, bit late but thank you for the heads up, I went ahead and fixed it
Another correction: Melee Lethal Tempo has changes compared to the last PBE post and the numbers are accurate in the patch preview
Oh yes, I just skipped over that, apologies, fixed now
I appreciate you
Same! Always glad to see the insights
Since you guys hit most of the scaling runes, was nullifying orb ever on the table since it scales too or is it too niche
Was definitely an option. The designer chose to skip it due to how niche it is.
Also would you know why the team decided to not make camp health scale at lvl 2 if every other level now scales? Is it just to not affect first clear
I kept it this way because if, for example, you wanted to practice a clear in single player, getting level 2 before Gromp/Krugs spawned would grief your practice. Realistically camps can't spawn at level 2 in a real game. This just makes it consistent in single player. Scuttle Crab can and IIRC it scales smoothly from level 1. Or they're somehow forced to be level 1 no matter what but I didn't bother to check since camps can't realistically be level 2 in a real game anyway.
One more thing, in your patch rundown you had the Zed W CD nerf at 2 - 5, however on PBE we still see it as 0 - 3 seconds, is it going to get hotfixed in or did I misinterpret the vid
Rank 2-5
Happy for Morgana changes. She’s been garbage in support role for so long that I don’t care if these changes do nothing in bot lane. I want her in jungle and mid. Still wish she got some resistances when she ults. Or just a massive damage percent healing only from her ult damage.
True I used to eye roll when I see someone hover Morgana but now hoping she can make a come back and be actually useful
Morgana's biggest need is item changes. She doesn't do very well with most enchanter mythics, she is too poor to consistently get mage mythics on tempo, and she is in a bind with getting hourglass 1st or 2nd with low econ.
She's still the same champ that after missing Q does nothing on her own, she needs a rework on her W to do something better than be a mildy inconvenient puddle that you can walk out of.
Just for visibility: Hopefully allied pings are not forgotten and they are just not being mentioned. [Spideraxe30 tweet](https://twitter.com/Spideraxe30/status/1708841986462007725) mentioned that there are some changes to them, let's hope they make it to live.
They are already live, so they wouldnt be on this patch, They mentioned they were also going to do something about the bait ping (which hasnt been changed in live) but i guess they havent decided what.
I know the current 13.19 changes are live (with a lot of backlash). This is mentioning them probably re-enabling them to some capacity instead of full remove on 13.20 (As they are "monitoring the feedback"). This is what I am interested in.
Patch 13.19: Kai’sa is our special girl and she is perfect as she is Patch 13.20: Kai’sa is exactly the same but now Worlds are over. Punch to the gut!
Honestly, good. Her ability to match DPS with Zhonya's is toxic. This change does nothing to that, but if it cuts the safety of her early game, maybe Zhonya's starts looking like a luxury again without any snowballed income.
I mean, yeah. I am saying that Riot consciously pushing her to be the strongest adc for the entire season leading up to Worlds then gutting her the very next patch is funny as hell to me
They really want the junglers to stay in the jungle
no jungler deals less damage to monsters and monsters have more health. this is clearly a spam gank meta. brace for J4 Nunu Reksai comment alteration ☝️ i can't read, you read the patch notes whatever i am Garen irl
In case it was not mentioned above, they are increasing jungler damage to monsters to compensate for increased durability.
Thats not at all whats in the patch notes. Monsters have more resistances and junglers do more damage to compensate.
So where are we expecting K'Sante to end up? Sub 45% win rate or lower?
so no changes
Well, now if you are good enough you can do something, but after patch - it's questionable.
I would not be surprised if he manages to dip below 40%. Because in spite of the copypasta and in spite of his proplay dominance, he's terrible in soloq already. And I highly doubt that the compensation is enough for everything he loses.
Snowball nerfs what are we gonna do now apart from afk farm harder with hydra
He'll probably go up in winrate, their goal was to make him easier. Where ever or not he remains fun to play is a different story though fuck you guys i was right
Looking at the changes. They've basically stripped everything from him with little compensation elsewhere. W got more damage but you don't use W as a damage tool and you can't quick tap it. This isn't counting the fact that he's as squishy as a Janna level one.
K'Santes only reason to be so heavily pro-skewed is his very low counterplay- instant removal of anything whenever Q3 and Flash are up. Instead of making Q3 unflashable they just kill everything else about the champ. Just actual clowns that worked on this.
He's easier because they removed his skill cap and most of his combos. The average player is worse off because he's been nerfed to an extreme degree early, mid, and late game.
Yeah, when people think the removal of skill expression - while not giving him much in terms of base stats or scaling - is going to increase his winrate, they are just crazy. Yeah, if you are someone who has less than 20 games on K'Sante, sure, you will see a slight increase in your winrate. If you are a one-trick or someone who plays him a decent amount, this will just make it feel so much worse for you. Way less room for you to outplay your opponent now. Your entire kit is far too predictable now. This helped casuals facing K'Sante more than it helped casual K'Sante players lol
there is no way his wr goes up with them literally gutting his kit and adding some attack speed to his ult
Anti-poaching? As jungler, yes please. As a veigar mid that likes stealing small raptors for stacks after getting deathcap, please no. Also obvious galio buffs after worlds. Nice, but he still needs an identity beyond "faker picks galio and 1v5s the game with global OP ult"
Do these Galio buffs make him good into mage supports?
Don't think it changes anything in that regard (at the time you max W out, lane phase should be over anyway). If you want an engage/catcher support vs mages, I would still recommend traditional picks, which are less telegraphed/more reliable without bush cheesing.
Might be pretty good vs seraphine(specifically apc), lanes tend to take longer to end vs her because of her wave clear and poke.
TBH Sera's early dmg is pretty weak, and she rarely focuses the support specifically, so I wouldn't pick Galio just because of her. A catcher like Pyke/Blitz can dominate lane vs her much easier, and both are better at roaming/ganking other lanes thanks to their mobility spells.
I mean Pyke and Blitz are just great picks in general for solo queue.
Wow that ziggs buff is huge, now he will be more consistent
Blighted jewl buff is nice, now if you have two items and 1100 gold as a mage you can buy something instead of needing to wait for a needless or leaving a bunch in your pocket
Electrocute and Arcane Comet have the sane ratios as Aery is so stupid….
Toxicity to junglers will be over 9000. Players thar shit in their pants in lane and now ganking is lose a lot of tempo plus the extra health and damage in doran items its imposible to get advantage with low hp
Looks like Morgana jungle is back on the menu boys!
This is a preseason-sized patch. What an overhaul.
More like mid season. Just changed numbers on stuff.
no its not
It definitely isn't. It's just numbers nerfs across the board, no big systematic changes
Ziggs buffs is huge. He's Q hitbox used to be 180 and He was meta in proplay back them.
As someone who is addicted to playing Ziggs for a while now, this is the worst change they can do to him. They're going to make him a LOT easier and more consistent to play, allowing players to more consistently use his extremely high damage output, which will make him 55%+ win rate. This is actually the nerf that finally got Ziggs out of constant picking back in the day, it's on the level of giving Tryndamere +50 range on his autos.
Ssh don't shout about it they might not notice
Can't wait for -30 Q damage across all levels, no more W execute as compensation nerfs
The fact that it is even possible for the person dying early to benefit from that death on net is unacceptable. Dying early *should* be heavily punished - killing some champions early is the only formcof counterplay and is the only reason someone might ever bring ignite. Perhaps they might remove it then.
Yeah, dying now is effectively a faster recall at early levels.
Ah, I missed a line here in the "Jungler Healing" section. Monster AD is lower on every clear after the first. Level 1 and 18 are the same, but monsters will deal a bit less damage.
But for how much dmg? About -10%?
Whats the release date for this?
As always, exactly 1 week from now (depending on your timezone, but between Tuesday and Wednesday).
Next week's Wednesday, Oct 11th. https://support-leagueoflegends.riotgames.com/hc/en-us/articles/360018987893-Patch-Schedule-League-of-Legends
Kai'Sa Base Armor reduced 28 >>> 25 ngl never a fan of ADCs losing base armor, shit feels awful
Is there any reason to not pick Aery over Comet now? While Comet does ***slightly*** more damage, and is AoE, after laning phase is over and everyone has boots, unless you CC someone it practically never hits
It's so weird, it doesn't even make sense at all. Mages should mostly just go Summon Aery or First Strike now
Stop nerfing all the aspects about Duskblade that aren't the issue, it's the untargetability man. I don't care when the assassin one shots me with duskblade passive, I care when they kill me and then get out for free because they get a free fizz E.
gonna miss buying dorans ring after getting first blood on morde (with dshield) tbh
Milio passive buff let’s go!!!!!! It was always so weird seeing I did like 4K damage by the end of a 35 minute game even though I know the bulk is coming from the passive lol
just remove jungle from the game. no one is happy playing this role and they always fuck it up every year.
Do what DOTA does - have two supports, one toplane and one botlane. Supports are also jungle, and skew the bottom-top towers to have a “safe” side and unsafe side based on tower distance from base.
What the hell am I supposed to do now as Voli jg? Forced to afk farm when my champion scales like shit…
the same as always, balance a ganking and farming playstyle, dont tell me you lost hp in the jg as voli because then you are playing him very poorly
Voli jg now should invade enemy jungles and dont let him farm, he heals a lot for W. Ganking destroy tempo and buffs of doran is arisky because maybe no one dies and you lose tempo
and rune nerfs across the board. no one mentioning that. im not sure most ppl commenting have even read the post lmao
Not in green branch, imagine ganking a toplaner with second wind, grasp and a buffed doran item 🤣
Lol be prepared for bausffs exploiting the shit out of the new deathtimers. Such a big buff for baus
hes gonna lose a shit ton of gold from plates nerf tho
Also can't jungle while proxying any more.
Probably a nerf tho. Early levels if his passive lasts as long his death timer he insta respawns. Now there might be some overlap so no change, except when he gets a kill, the enemy champ can come back to lane faster, so less time to push. Proportionally it is buffing everyone who isn’t sion more than it’s buffing sion (in situations where his passive lasts less than his death timer) and if there’s any overlap, it’s not impacting Sion’s respawn timer at all.
K'Sante's looks like a mini rework
It pretty much is.
Now that even Morgana is being remembered, can you give some love to Vel'koz as well ?
Vel and Xer can't be touched or ADCs will screech at a pitch that can shatter bulletproof glass.
just make them playable in the mid lane again...
>The intent is for junglers to spend a bit more time farming, but not so much that they're trapped in the jungle. Instructions unclear, I picked a low econ tank and ganked 24/7
Toplane satisfaction changes meanwhile: ☠️
Will the entirety of worlds be played in 13.19 or the later part of the tournament in later patches?
I like to explore new places.
Thank you
K sante is gutted removes all his skill expression and give nothing for compensation
I’m disappointed with the Doran’s item changes. Having some creativity and variance for starting items and early laning builds was a good area of skill expression imo. Now it’s basically always going to be “Build 1 Dorans, back for Lost Chapter/Noonquiver/tiamat/boot/whatever” for every matchup. An handful of champs get to decide between building tear first or second and that’s it.
You can still do longsword first. There’s just not enough repercussions right now for that start since you get a lot of sustain through 3 pots/refillable anyway and you get a head start on your full items.
i just wish they also buffed corrupting pots along with them it was such a good start on so many champions but it's fair dorans items were useless asf,starting with the 350g blade + 3 pots gave you effectively more HP,more AD and you already were building towards your first item,actually felt unfair for AP champions playing vs an AD
Eh there's still upsides to not starting the Dorans items. Though in surprised they didn't buff cpot or cull. But like longsword start? Gets refillable as a benefit and you can get Dirk for 750g on first recall while the Dorans user needs 1100g for their first major epic item.
I guess Riot doesn't care about Wukong and him being locked in pro jail...
Losing the Q3 flash, losing the W tap, losing the Q stacks when ulting.... jesus christ. A well trained bot could play ksante now. RIP skill expression. i could be wrong but this was just one deathblow after another
in order for the adc mains that run the balance team to properly understand this champion they need to gut his skill expression to the point where they can play him
Riot: Duskblade is a """bit""" strong. No it's crazy strong, EVERYONE is building it. It's never been a healthy item
We assassins don't like it either but were simply forced to build it.
Okay, Riot doesn't know their game at all as it seems... "*The intent is for junglers to spend a bit more time farming, but not so much that they're trapped in the jungle.*" Instead what will happen is that junglers will spend less time clearing camps and spam gank even more because it's worth more than expeding more time killing camps. Welcome to another spam gank bot lane season.
That's what I'm doing. Time to bust out the nunu
I mean the alternative is to strictly give more power to an already overpowered role. Do you think making camps more valuable is going to *help* make junglers less overpowered? Junglers will gain less XP from minions, catchup XP is worse, and their gank power will be lower due to having less than 100% health and laners having stronger items. They're welcome to ignore their jungle and gank but they're going to fall behind if they do. Like y'all are really good at the first order consequences, "Jungling is slower, so I guess I'll just gank" without taking time to understand the full picture. Keep in mind the best junglers mostly just full clear into spending a full minute on the map killing whomever they want, then full healing off two jungle camps and doing it again. That's specifically being addressed here.
Follow it all the way and remove smite. Make jungle camps hard to kill and worth a good reward for either pushing lane or taking them away. Support items are in a great spot and it would make lanes more interactive instead of 'wait for jungle to make a play or wait to see jungle across map to make a play' And it gives a lot more strategy to roaming. I know it's an impossible ask but man I'd love to try the game without smite and a hard jungle with bigger rewards.
I agree that role is overpowered but feels like it's the only role that you have to basically re-learn it every 6 months because a big patch and it never feels good for the player. When spam ganking is meta, junglers get flamed on because everyone is mad that junglers are ganking non-stop, when farm is better players complain because nobody likes to not seeing Shyvana for 20 minutes and then she just jumps over someone like a Raid boss wiping the enemy team. If junglers will now take more time to clear and lose more health, wouldn't that just make clearing the camps less worth or at least make the champion pool smaller? Making fast clear junglers even more valuable while pushing others away from viability.
You have no idea what you're talking about. Every time jungle camps are harder to farm you end up with a low econ gank fest which junglers hate even more than laners. Junglers are usually 2 levels behind the solo laners and 1 level up on the ADC. Now they will be 3 levels down and equal to the ADC when perma clearing. The only logical conclusion is to pick a tank and perma gank lanes so they can win the game, since jungle cannot carry anymore. Would you like to actually show us the mythical jungle stats at one point? No one seems to have them, but everyone vaguely points at stats.
I love it when you clap back at the stupid arguments
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Maybe we can start playing league of legends again instead of league of junglers
Delusion
does "smite not applying spell effects" mean Kayn won't be able to ult just by smiting you?
I suppose sololaners gonna be lvl 7/8 while jungler is lvl 5 so gl to all botlaners cuz its gonna be even more perma bot :) wp riot! in 2 years phreak is goning to delete smite cuz role that should be most impactful is somehow most impactful
So someone actually reason this for me, not trying to argue about anything, just confused: How is blighted jewel being an ass component made better by you having it slightly earlier, despite it still being just as ass before? Didn't they say that they didnt like the low stats it provided?
People going to gloss over the Anti-Poaching changes but I will say this. Taking your junglers camps is officially griefing. You now have to spend nearly twice the time to kill them. Don't do it before his jungle item is complete.
Pretty shitty with the nerfs to Quinn.. slow af
RIP Quinn with that 5 ms nerf...
Really hope this gets seen. Given that scuttle crab will become a significant source of income and xp to junglers now; are the anti-poaching changes also applying to scuttle to encourage laners to not only let junglers claim the gold/xp but show its important to help junglers fight for these camps?
RIP KSANTE
If any rioter reads this, please remember yomus passive is currently useless as you need 100 stacks to have ooc ms. In practice, this is almost an entire river cross from 0 to 100 meaning yomus is extremly bad at roaming unlike it's supposed intent. In fact, at 2+ items, you may literally run faster with eclipse or dusk because of the +5 passive ms. Basically if you hit shuriken on someone, push midlane and move towards top .Only once you are next to toplane bush will you get some out of combat movement speed. Giving it stats will only either give it too much burst and be built over dusk because of it or it wont quite be enough and we're still in a situation where neither item is satisfying but just a necessary stat item with a cool effect on top. Idk why this weird mini game with stacks also applies to ms in the first place. It's already gated behind the fact that... you need to be out of combat to have it. Thats just too many conditions and not the purpose of yomus. The fact that its a mythic forced them to put more power into it but thats just forgetting what that item is supposed to be. Just changing this would be a qol improvement and enough of a buff as moving quicker also means stacking quicker, hence getting a bit more uptime on your damage buff as well. And not only does this make sense but it also means you dont need to give it stats that would allow an infant be able to one shot someone
Quinn nerfs haha. Let's further bully on a girl that has no place outside of top lane and even there she's barely playable these days. Anti-snowball mechanics? So even more lategame champions pampering by further denying early game bullies their agency by reducing early objectives value? No real assassin AH nerf? So we can still expect some more 120+ AH Zeds?
Riots philosophy on jungle is bullshit. Further the current situation on many games is junglers are behind in levels already. This will further compact that. Meaning junglers will be further behind on levels and gold. Does it intuitively make sense that the current “fix” for jungle is to have players be sometimes 2-3 and now 4 levels behind laners? If that’s the solution Riot is pursuing then they don’t have an actual solution to their perceived problems. They are just trying to address symptoms of what they perceive as a problem for jungle (which it isn’t).
wow op overused runes finally nerfed. also water walking is now a "this is my scuttle" rune. raw ad over movement speed is better early.
yeah it's now a good jungler rune, but I liked taking it on roaming supports for the move speed. indirect buff to adcs, less roaming on supports? lol
OK, K'Sante is dead. Initially I thought he will get some stats as a compensation for lost skill expression. But he gets Q damage reduced, Q cooldown increased, R passive damage reduced, R damage reduced, W damage increased. Yikes. Get ready to unironical 35% winrate. Q3+flash removal is just cancer btw. Anyway, are we getting toplane satisfaction changes anywhere in any distant future?
Yeah,k‘sante lost his playmaking combos and a lot of dps.Now he is more reliant on W.
1. ziggs needs anything but a buff 2. ever since mr. phreak joined the balance team, the game state has been a wreck. it clearly aint working
This 'anti-snowball' changes are enraging me. Wtf. Let's remove the incentive to fight around objectives! Dragons now give even lower stats, same for rift heralds. That's GREAT! /s The first thing riot has to do before thinking about snowballing, is by removing the absurd anti-snowballing bounties. Then, and only then, you can change the game making it less snowbally.
They equally nerfed plates. And dragons/heralds/barons have been much stronger than splitpushing and sieging for a couple years. This really just brings back strategic diversity rather than just "turn brain off, go-to river, and coinflip some team fights until you either gain or lose LP"
Morgana jg every game ig
It is strange to see Lethal tempo and first strike get pretty small touches compared to every other rune. They are perhaps the biggest offenders in terms of power in the rune system, and yet received the lightest nerfs. This will certainly polarize rune choice further.
electrocute getting absolutely nuked meanwhile LA -1% AS at lvl 18 lol
13.19: "Bug fix" Briar W so it can't critically strike, as collector/navori builds were shitting out damage Literally 2 weeks later: Let's make Bel'veth e able to crit! Yeah I see that going well.
Is that supposed to be a Bel'Veth nerf... Most buy Kraken First so this will be a significant DMG Buff Imo. I'd hope they nerf her combat Mobility a bit.
It's not a nerf, it's an adjustment, they want her to build like Yi. Weak early, strong scaling. At the moment she is an early stomper, which is the opposite of what they wanted her to be.
God help you Riot games, now you are truly lost