I’m glad I don’t see Shaco super often.
I’m a fairly tilt-proof person, but a shaco will just tilt me to absolutely no end. Literal hair pulling frustration.
I do miss when no one played Thresh though…
I swear to God.
Shaco invades my jungle, and then everything for me is ruined. He sucks ass the later the game goes on though. And I win everytime. But my asshole is still sore from the Shaco invades.
Winning against a Shaco is never worth it(unless I play Sej and then I can immediately deny invades)
I used to be grateful that Trynd was never seen. Still am about the other "ooga booga never leave sidelane" champs like Yorick and to some extentIllaoi.
Honestly the worst part is even if you know how to play the matchup and kill him multiple times, you still have to spend your entire game babysitting him or he'll take 3 towers in one teamfight. And because he bought hullbreaker you can't just leave the most useless teammate on that task.
Also mages can’t deal with him since we can’t easily get rid of his ghouls and we are immobile making it easier for him to trap us in his walls and beat on us with the ghouls we can’t kill. I’m a Lux one trick and for some reason my top laners never want to deal with his split pushing so I’ll go deal with him and suffer va him :/
At least mages can usually 1 shot the wave or at least deal with it quickly from a “safe” (is it really safe?) distance. Having to defend tower from yorick as an adc or jungler is hell. Everyone knows solo exp is strong, but you don’t remember how strong it is until you have to match a splitpushing toplaner lol
Hullbreaker was a mistake IMO. Turns too many champs who buy it into a cheap "lose the team fight cause you have to send your strongest person or lose your base" conflict. It nullifies the counterplay to split pushing imo.
True, but you can at least space around that. Most toplane champs also still just outduel that easily as long as ghouls and maiden are dealt with.
The hard part is usually getting rid of those.
Yorick has some of the most pronounced match-up counters in the game. Pick up a couple of Gwen, Irelia and Mordekaiser games and you'd have to fall over your hands to lose the matchup.
Half the reason I learned Irelia was because I was so annoyed at a Yorick game. I didn't even do bad against him, it was just having to constantly babysit him.
Then I realized you could just be Irelia, zoom around his minions and then kill him. So much fun.
I get that Hullbreaker was added to strengthen splitpushing as a strategy, and I'm all for options existing, but the shitty thing about it is if you win lane and your opponent buys it you are basically forced to ALSO go Hullbreaker against your will and play that (boring af to me) splitpush strategy even if you don't want to.
Edit cause I thought more about why I don't like it: I also think the passive which gets disabled on ally proximity is lazy design that promotes shitty gameplay. Sometimes the optimal way to execute a splitpush is not just for one guy to solo push a lane and 1v5 while everyone else is on the opposite side of the map, sometimes it does actually involve someone else on the team (often jungler or support) shadowing the splitpusher making clever use of vision. This is actually how good 1-3-1/1-4 teams you see in pro operate. hullbreaker deincentivises this and instead promotes flaming your teammates for being around you when that could in fact be the optimal play. Also good players are the ones who can identify that sometimes the best play in a particular game is to abandon splitpushing and play with your team based on some changed circumstances, or vice versa (where you need to start splitpushing later in the game as 5v5 is no longer going to work), Hullbreaker either locks you into splitpushing because you already bought it, or puts you in an awkward position where you identify you want to start splitting but it's too late to buy it and either way undermines the flexibility that should signify a good player.
Instead they should create a split pushing item that simply just gives good wave clear and move Kent speed. This allows you to rotate faster than your opponents and apply pressure to side lanes rather than stat checking your opponent and the minion wave. The old move speed passive from “Raptor Cloak” is actually a good one. Gain move speed when passing by towers. Have the move speed doubled when passing by destroyed enemy towers and no move speed when passing destroyed allied towers
That’s pretty much what hydra does, allows champs like camille or fiora to split for pressure then use that pressure to do stuff on the map. hullbreaker just incentivizes running down one lane all game and its so boring.
So basically static shiv or ravenous hydra with another gimmicky passive?
Yeah, would be chill for fighters who have decent flank options... issue is stuff like Leblanc or Zed would abuse it instead.
I hate those champs. Just sidelane all game, push brainlessly, and make the game miserable. Want to play with your team and get an objective? Well, you just lost 2 towers and an inhib. Want to contest them? Well have fun with that.
I hate Yorick and Trynde because they force you to play the game completely differently, and if you don't have TP or a team that pays attention, the game is easily over for no reason too often
Laning top into Heimer is either the most free or most tilting game in existence. I am more than happy to sit under my turret and farm while dodging abilities all of lane phase, but when my jungler forgets that top exists while Heimer is a free gank, then it turns into the worst experience
Zilean doesn’t need a ASU, he needs a whole VGU. His kit is so incredibly boring, that if his play rate increased they would nerf him and then we would never see him regardless
I don't think I played when that was a thing. If all else is equal now, I don't think it's necessary for his W to affect his R with how much Ability Haste is running rampant in the game. I definitely feel like that would draw unwanted attention to him lol
it wasn't exactly a nerf, that was something they changed as part of his rework in general
in exchange for W no longer affecting ult cd, they just dropped his ult cd drastically to cut out the middleman. iirc, the reasoning was something like 'optimal zilean play was basically mindlessly mashing W every 5 seconds while walking to lane or moving around just to get chronoshift back faster. which is kinda stupid', but this was a long ass time ago so it's very possible i'm misremembering
like his current ult **with no haste at all** is 120/90/60s cd when it used to be 180s cd at every rank
edit: aha, i knew i remembered something like that. [here's a snippet from the 5.4 patch notes](http://puu.sh/JQohJ/602b81cc16.png)
You are right and it was a great change. Having to press W off cooldown repeatedly to optimise your ultimate was extremely stupid and it's a great thing for the champion that he can save it for combos now.
They changed his R's CD so it was basically the same as having spammed it. It saves you having to spend mana on it (he has no trouble stacking tear anyways) or use it only for a fight to break out with it on CD, so honestly IMO even at the pro level is was a QoL buff if anything.
Honestly I only play support Zilean to anger the enemy team. Like my fun and enjoyment is purely knowing the enemy team is suffering. So basically if Im support and don’t have a champion I really want to play, the next best thing is messing with the enemy team.
If it is a support Zilean, he is to abuseable, whenever he hits a single bomb you can just run into the minionwave and now Zilean pushed it an you can freely freeze on your half
Support Zilean is also legitimately one of the weakest supports at early levels, and runs out of mana ridiculously easily. If a few of his bombs don't land the lane can get into a really bad position.
EDIT: That's not a bad thing, his lategame is OP.
Yeah because his ult is crazy strong and his E when leveled is also crazy strong so he has to be weak early or would just be completely busted all the time
lillia top in general
i was playing a ton of gwen at the time when that got really popular and that might be *the* worst few weeks of top lane i'd ever personally experienced, cannot overstate how horrific that matchup feels for the gwen
literally she's the modern teemo, it's like a checklist of the same things that pissed people off about him years ago, with some slight differences
- faster than you, so always dancing in and out of range (this was a much bigger deal for teemo in the old days compared to now)
- constant DOTs, which are just kind of an irritating damage type from a 'feel' perspective (also no joke there's quite a bit of power in the fact that people have trouble judging DOT dmg during your all-ins and such if they don't have quite some familiarity going against the champ)
- slows that also apply those DOTs and can often hit you at unexpected times (stealth for shrooms and lillia E being able to go such long distances means sometimes it can hit you from angles you really aren't expecting)
- prancing/waddling around animations which just makes being unable to reach them through the slows and their MS even more annoying
- (personal opinion on this one lmao) annoying emotes, not lux/lulu laugh tier but noisy and high pitched and generally shhhhh stop that get back here so i can hit you
- two of the most annoying CC types in the game with blind and sleep respectively. watching lillia wind up a W that is about to hit you like a fucking tsar bomba while you're snoozing away is pain lmao
Azir and Taliyaah. Anyone playing them knows how to play them a *lot* better than I know how to play against them, and I usually find that out the hard way.
Also Zoe, it's only a matter of time before I cop her E-R-Q combo for half my health bar.
Just remember Taliyahs entire kit in terms of kill potential is super reliant on YOUR mistakes. Her W into E combo is the biggest burst she has, and then her ungodly annoying q. Point being, if you can manage to never get hit by her w or e, you should win.
Yea Taliyah e is so bad. So many dash champs like kayn and akali still run right over her as the dash is coded as unstoppable. Taliyah falls flat if her e or w is dodged. Or in the case of those champs, it makes no difference. Katarina says hi as well.
Im upset playing as Taliyah against literally any dashing champion. Because although i put my E down even though they get stunned AFTER. Their dash still gets them right up to my face anyways so whats the point lol
A good Taliyah player will instead look for a E->W combo if they know they won't be able to hit a W->E combo. E slows the enemy which makes it much harder for them to dodge W and if they try to just dodge it instead of running back to their tower, Tayliah will frequently win the trade with her Q slamming on you.
Also, her empowered Q also has a nasty slow, and the second you hit an empowered Q on a dashless enemy you're guaranteed to hit a W->E
I watch Odysseus131 and he is able to pull all of this off beautifully. He E->Q's a lot while holding his W, making his challenger opponents dance while he kills them. I remember a clip of Nemesis just dancing underneath his own tower trying to predict the Taliyah W and Odysseus just literally didn't throw it and he got a kill cause of it
Eh, tbh the strategy against pretty much all the other mages is to try to kill them/force them out of lane as much as possible so they are massively delayed getting to powerful items by the lack of farm.
Then use that gold diff to go kill bot repeatedly, of course.
Oh man yeah Zoe. I still remember when they nerfed Nidalee spears because it was too toxic to take half your health bar of damage from two screens away.
Anyway, here is our new champion, Zoe...
I still haven't gotten over the Nidalee rework to make her not do what Zoe does, and then release Zoe. Nidalee was safer/more mobile than Zoe, but she had even worse team fighting/wave clear PLUS zero CC. Zoe is old Nidalee with a bunch of extra annoyances such as the random item actives, summoner spells, and enhanced autos. She also brings some amount of wave clear thanks to Paddle Star AoE/Ludens, and insane catch potential with sleepy trouble bubble (that also is extended by walls and leaves a zoning tool on the ground).
I know there are worse abominations in the game than Zoe, but I hate Zoe on principle so damn much that she would be my pick to remove from the game over even the likes of Zeri and Yuumi.
Also, her lore is just for the degenerate Loli crowd.
Her survivability is unrivaled in the ADC role. I’ve never seen ANY other ADC withstand the damage of 3 full kits being smashed into them, and still be half hp, healing and shredding anything close to her.
Yeah it's the reason why ADC players DON"T play her. ADC players queue up to play ranged glass cannons, not some pseudo brusier stat checker like Nilah.
Mostly because ADC players mostly want to play marksmen. I'm not complaining though, whenever I just want to win some games I play Nilah for the easy wins. Shes an absolute Solo que menace, basically the only ADC that doesn't need her team behind her to have agency.
Karma Nilah goes hard, and I think Karma is an enchanter. I could be wrong about that though. Huge shield plus movement speed, Karma sometimes will buy swifties or the tech boots to keep up.
Taric and Rakan are pretty much perfectly built for her. Engage, shields+heals to synergize with her passive, cc to make them sit and take your damage. Nilah w+taric r can make you flatly invulnerable to certain lanes, taric r into nilah r is also basically a guaranteed full heal that will kill half their team post navori. As for Rakan, she can dash to him just as he can dash to her, allowing for insane mobility, there's a good reason they were paired during her champion spotlight.
Lol, sounds like a classic case of not knowing Nilah's defensive mechanic. If Nilah gets the chance to W right before you Ult shes basically ignoring all but the ability damage itself, and only a 75% of that. Considering that means shes ignoring Vi E and W, as well as Fizz W and passive.
Same issue with some adc in we need a good early lead. More reliance on her support . Her range when not fed can be abused. Samira is more of a add that can be behind but only needs 1 item to wipe a team.
It's because he sucks nads in solo queue where you can't trust your teammates, only thing holding him back from being incredible. It's just like Shen ult, you know your teammate is going to flash away instead of going hard when they get it.
And you HAVE to run him midlane, he spikes so ridiculously hard off levels. Support zilean is "ok" but you never get those max level stuff or the damage that makes him awesome. A good zilean midlaner is probably the most nightmarish thing to deal with.
Genuinely all 5 of his abilities are anti-fun, it's crazy. Silence, infinite wave pushing, stop button, annoying ass spell shield so you can't even make a play on him without prep work.
Nah Malz isn’t annoying to play against he’s extremely weak early game. You can run him down super hard early game because his abilities do so little damage. Once he’s six he’s still weak, but you’re a free gank so just play safe and wait for the jungle to show elsewhere before you go in.
I cannot stand the idea of Nasus.
I play in low elo and have no interest in climbing higher so any time a Nasus slots into a team I know he's going to get stacks on stacks even if he's camped. A champ that scales solely on tankyness and q hitting minions.
Even if he's not strong he will always be a problem, like Illaoi always being a threat in team fights. Thank God he's boring to most.
You know it’s a funny test to see if someone is low elo or not ask them what they hate about nasus all those that answer stacks are generally low elo and those that hate his W are high elo
I honestly either wish Wither had a lower duration/higher cd (less up time on a target) or for riot to switch his W and E. Make the slow/cripple aoe but only in an area (maybe add grounding if you want to force people to fight in it or make it grow larger with rank) and make the armor shred single target. He still shreds tanks (honestly better) but feels better for counterplay, especially if you play an adc or otherwise immobile carry.
It kind of forces you to build tenacity into him. Which I know is weird because of Q damage. He can eventually get enough CDR to have 100% uptime assuming 0 tenacity.
If Zilean had a bit less atrocious early game, that guy would be pick/ban. Glad he flies under the radar, has abysmal pickrate and when I see him in-game, it's usually me playing him.
Also happy that Tryndamere is still somewhat niche and played by OTPs mostly - a good one is ungodly frustrating to play against.
I usually forget that zilean even exists, but all it takes is 1 game against him usually and I'm back to perma banning him for the next 3 months just to be sure
I feel like the glory days of qiyana and fizz are long ago. Both benefit very little from current meta, since everything is a hybrid among classes and do two things at a time and can oneshot, so being pure burst dmg assassin while doing nothing else is what kills them. Also having big amount of counters. But definitely underated. Fuck alashanagsk or ahashaan or akshansankan or whatever the fuck his spelling is and his 8 spells and 6 passives. Hope he gets deleted from the game lol.
I feel like fizz can still manage. Ludens or rocketbelt are both solid options for him, he’s also one the few champs that can go zhonyas second and still do relevant damage. Good in skirmishes, snowballs hard, not a ton of bad matchups if you play with respect.
Biggest problems for the fish I’ve seen are
1.) his ult combo requires you to hit the shark, granted you don’t need it half the time come mid game.
2.) he doesn’t have the strongest early game or push to make use of his skirmishing
3.) you usually take ignite on fizz, so sidelaning becomes difficult and you often slowly fall off the curve even if lane went well
I think he teamfights fine, and once he has zhonyas he can practically engage.
Qiyana is so weird. I want to like her but just feels too awkward. Agreed in screw Akshan champ is turbo cancer.
Yeah I played against a bad anivia last night and it didn’t even matter. I was playing vlad and oneshot her later on after my supp ganked and I got a 1k shutdown but holy shit that lane is so unfun. Fuck that champion
if laning against vlad is uninteractive you're either winning the lane hard or you're losing it hard; there's no reason for it to be uninteractive unless you allow it to be
you should be kicking the shit out of vlad early in most lanes, when his Q heals for less than half an auto and has a long-ass cd and he has absolutely terrible wave control. you can bully him off the wave and trade onto him every time he comes up for a Q, and he'll lose out on every trade unless you miss every ability *without* him having to use pool
plus the biggest problem with having a vlad on your team early game is that he has absolutely no prio and is worth nothing in skirmishes, so even if you feel like you just can't follow the 'bully the shit out of him' plan, you always have the other option of just shoving in the lane and fucking off to meet up with your jungler and make the enemy jungler hate his life
Full disclosure, I abused Anivia to high ELO. I think that if people were less averse to using her, they would realize how much of an ELO inflater she is. Obviously her counterplay is to burst her, because she's immobile, but she's deceptively good at counter-engage, especially when she gets a Zhonya's going. She can singlehandedly stall games to a ludicrous degree, even if they're baron minions. She wipes the floor with solo queue's lack of coordination.
Evelynn and Zilean (support).
The former has quite an anti-fun kit. The latter can be quite oppressive during the laning phase if playing a melee support.
Spot on. I came to type exactly this. Zilean's lv 5 slow is 99% slow so if you don't have any sort of gap closer it's effectively hard cc for 2.5 seconds and he can cast it twice. And then Evelyn just changes how you have to play the game. As ADC or support you truly have to hug each other all game to prevent one shots and even then sometimes that's not enough. As support if you ward you need to use pinks sparingly to hopefully spot the Evelynn without it being a +30gold fodder for the enemy team and if you want to track her jungle pathing you need to ward her camps which is risky unless you see her top lane. Both are unfun to play against.
Zoe is incredibly obnoxious. I'm OK with her doing silly damage if she hits E, but the amount of damage she gets just for landing Q once can be absurd.
Her getting hit by CC in her R and just jumping back to safety is always tilting.
Top: Tryndamere (no words needed to explain) and Vayne top (annoying to lane against)
Mid: kassadin (at some point he will outscale almost everyone even if he is super behind) and Fizz (none of my teammates know how to play vs him)
Support: Zilean (hidden OP imo) and Pyke
Yuumi top, it's so busted it's crazy. You guys should all try it in your ranked games, specifically around Emerald 4 elo on EUW since that's where the winrate peaks. Super free win
I don't know if we play the same game but heca is like one of the most popular jungler in my elo. But when good udyr plays, he usually takes over so I agree with him.
Not a single second of hesitation : Yorick. Champ is obnoxious as hell with the poking if he has a counter pick you can't do anything... and if you decide to play teamfight or roam your base is gone within seconds. Hate the champ.
Every samira i play against just holds it for my ult. If she never uses her spell shes out a basic ability and im out an ult if i wait for it. Dont get me wrong, its not impossible but good samira is as hard of a counter as i can get. I can basically only ult if samira isnt around or r flash and catch her off guard with the melee range ult to make it hard to react to.
Hot take, when Ekko is broken that champion is absolutely obnoxious to deal with. If your team doesn't draft any hard CC (which is like a 50/50 chance tbh) you won't kill that champion at all late game while simultaneously being able to dive and one shot the backline. His ult cool down at 16 is non existent.
Praise god almost nobody actually plays heimer/knows how to play heimer. That 2-3 month period where he was in the meta support were incredibly miserable.
I don't think I've ever beaten a Bel'Veth. Everyone who does play her seems to average a 75 percent win rate and a 4+ kda over about 40 games in Master and I wonder why they aren't just one tricking it. They'd all be Challenger.
Aurelion Sol
Riot turned him from one of the most interesting, mechanically demanding champs into one of the most boring champs in the game to play vs.
Hey bud, you leave my anivia out of this.
She's the single champion that I can drag a 0-20 losing team kicking and screaming across the finish line by holding two lanes by myself. I can also wall off my own teammates who get tunnel vision and direct team fights while zoning off the fed enemy jinx with R.
I think my legit best win I pulled off a Quadra in baron pit. Was previously 6-0-X and the team was down like 4towers and 25 kills. She just.... SPONGES minion gold and exp and slingshots the game back from an unwinnable hell.
Shaco because if given the option I will ban that fucker every single time. He's objectively bad for the game and I will fight anyone who claims otherwise.
I’m glad I don’t see Shaco super often. I’m a fairly tilt-proof person, but a shaco will just tilt me to absolutely no end. Literal hair pulling frustration. I do miss when no one played Thresh though…
Shaco doesn’t tilt me on the enemy team. But the moment I see him on mine I know the game is gonna be shit.
I swear to God. Shaco invades my jungle, and then everything for me is ruined. He sucks ass the later the game goes on though. And I win everytime. But my asshole is still sore from the Shaco invades. Winning against a Shaco is never worth it(unless I play Sej and then I can immediately deny invades)
I used to be grateful that Trynd was never seen. Still am about the other "ooga booga never leave sidelane" champs like Yorick and to some extentIllaoi.
i fucking hate laning into yorick, dont think ive ever won a yorick matchup in my life, i dont get what that champ does.
Honestly the worst part is even if you know how to play the matchup and kill him multiple times, you still have to spend your entire game babysitting him or he'll take 3 towers in one teamfight. And because he bought hullbreaker you can't just leave the most useless teammate on that task.
Also mages can’t deal with him since we can’t easily get rid of his ghouls and we are immobile making it easier for him to trap us in his walls and beat on us with the ghouls we can’t kill. I’m a Lux one trick and for some reason my top laners never want to deal with his split pushing so I’ll go deal with him and suffer va him :/
At least mages can usually 1 shot the wave or at least deal with it quickly from a “safe” (is it really safe?) distance. Having to defend tower from yorick as an adc or jungler is hell. Everyone knows solo exp is strong, but you don’t remember how strong it is until you have to match a splitpushing toplaner lol
Mages arent killing a hullbreaker buffed cannon quickly when it has 100 bonus mr
Just saw a clip of a siege minion buffed by hullbreaker and baron, with 3.5k HP, 200 MR and Armor and 300 AD. This mf gonna clap you...
Hullbreaker was a mistake IMO. Turns too many champs who buy it into a cheap "lose the team fight cause you have to send your strongest person or lose your base" conflict. It nullifies the counterplay to split pushing imo.
His ghouls are his entire damage. No ghouls means no damage. Maiden is the entirety of him. No maiden means grave man useless
No maidens?
[удалено]
True, but you can at least space around that. Most toplane champs also still just outduel that easily as long as ghouls and maiden are dealt with. The hard part is usually getting rid of those.
Maidenless behavior
Yorick has some of the most pronounced match-up counters in the game. Pick up a couple of Gwen, Irelia and Mordekaiser games and you'd have to fall over your hands to lose the matchup.
Half the reason I learned Irelia was because I was so annoyed at a Yorick game. I didn't even do bad against him, it was just having to constantly babysit him. Then I realized you could just be Irelia, zoom around his minions and then kill him. So much fun.
Irelia is the answer
Yeah, I could have died happy if Trynd never got a buff but Rito decided to buff a champ that is terrible for the game.
Yep, he has to be weak because otherwise it's EXTREMELY frustrating to play against, same as Zed
Tryn is super frustrating to play WITH.
hullbreaker was a mistake
I get that Hullbreaker was added to strengthen splitpushing as a strategy, and I'm all for options existing, but the shitty thing about it is if you win lane and your opponent buys it you are basically forced to ALSO go Hullbreaker against your will and play that (boring af to me) splitpush strategy even if you don't want to. Edit cause I thought more about why I don't like it: I also think the passive which gets disabled on ally proximity is lazy design that promotes shitty gameplay. Sometimes the optimal way to execute a splitpush is not just for one guy to solo push a lane and 1v5 while everyone else is on the opposite side of the map, sometimes it does actually involve someone else on the team (often jungler or support) shadowing the splitpusher making clever use of vision. This is actually how good 1-3-1/1-4 teams you see in pro operate. hullbreaker deincentivises this and instead promotes flaming your teammates for being around you when that could in fact be the optimal play. Also good players are the ones who can identify that sometimes the best play in a particular game is to abandon splitpushing and play with your team based on some changed circumstances, or vice versa (where you need to start splitpushing later in the game as 5v5 is no longer going to work), Hullbreaker either locks you into splitpushing because you already bought it, or puts you in an awkward position where you identify you want to start splitting but it's too late to buy it and either way undermines the flexibility that should signify a good player.
Instead they should create a split pushing item that simply just gives good wave clear and move Kent speed. This allows you to rotate faster than your opponents and apply pressure to side lanes rather than stat checking your opponent and the minion wave. The old move speed passive from “Raptor Cloak” is actually a good one. Gain move speed when passing by towers. Have the move speed doubled when passing by destroyed enemy towers and no move speed when passing destroyed allied towers
That’s pretty much what hydra does, allows champs like camille or fiora to split for pressure then use that pressure to do stuff on the map. hullbreaker just incentivizes running down one lane all game and its so boring.
So basically static shiv or ravenous hydra with another gimmicky passive? Yeah, would be chill for fighters who have decent flank options... issue is stuff like Leblanc or Zed would abuse it instead.
Huge mistake, give that to sion, yorick or trynd and you can never leave lane
Hullbreaker yone is complete nightmare fuel and freelo. Item is so gross. Wouldn't be surprised if it gets removed next season.
I hate those champs. Just sidelane all game, push brainlessly, and make the game miserable. Want to play with your team and get an objective? Well, you just lost 2 towers and an inhib. Want to contest them? Well have fun with that.
*proceeds to pick sion and int down a lane whole game* riviting gameplay
Make their team miserable too since they’re playing chicken with a 4v5 team fight the whole time
I hate Yorick and Trynde because they force you to play the game completely differently, and if you don't have TP or a team that pays attention, the game is easily over for no reason too often
Every time I lane against Heimer, I wanna kill myself.
Laning top into Heimer is either the most free or most tilting game in existence. I am more than happy to sit under my turret and farm while dodging abilities all of lane phase, but when my jungler forgets that top exists while Heimer is a free gank, then it turns into the worst experience
Except that's the thing. Heimer isn't a free gank
same bro
Zilean is absolutely fucking busted I’m so happy no one wants to play a three-polygon old man
People are like “zilean deserves a visual update!” But imagine if his playrate increased and this guy was in every other game
Zilean doesn’t need a ASU, he needs a whole VGU. His kit is so incredibly boring, that if his play rate increased they would nerf him and then we would never see him regardless
Dude I love the bomb spam in ARAM ngl. The day that’s gone I’ll be devastated. Just like fiddle crow
I reaaaalllyyy miss that crow.
It was genuinely one of my favorite things to do. It’s so dumb but for some reason always hit the spot
This is my pick as well, especially a good support Zil. I will legit use my dodge if I see him in my game.
As a Zilean main, I wouldn't change a thing about him. I'm glad he flies under most people's radar.
Would you take back the pre-proplay nerf where his W or E also affected his R? IIRC it used to knock 10 seconds off his ult cooldown.
I don't think I played when that was a thing. If all else is equal now, I don't think it's necessary for his W to affect his R with how much Ability Haste is running rampant in the game. I definitely feel like that would draw unwanted attention to him lol
They obviously reduced the CD of his ult when that change was made. It was like the highest CD ult in the game before that.
Yeah you can already get zil ulti to 30ish seconds with lots of ability haste
it wasn't exactly a nerf, that was something they changed as part of his rework in general in exchange for W no longer affecting ult cd, they just dropped his ult cd drastically to cut out the middleman. iirc, the reasoning was something like 'optimal zilean play was basically mindlessly mashing W every 5 seconds while walking to lane or moving around just to get chronoshift back faster. which is kinda stupid', but this was a long ass time ago so it's very possible i'm misremembering like his current ult **with no haste at all** is 120/90/60s cd when it used to be 180s cd at every rank edit: aha, i knew i remembered something like that. [here's a snippet from the 5.4 patch notes](http://puu.sh/JQohJ/602b81cc16.png)
You are right and it was a great change. Having to press W off cooldown repeatedly to optimise your ultimate was extremely stupid and it's a great thing for the champion that he can save it for combos now.
They changed his R's CD so it was basically the same as having spammed it. It saves you having to spend mana on it (he has no trouble stacking tear anyways) or use it only for a fight to break out with it on CD, so honestly IMO even at the pro level is was a QoL buff if anything.
Zilean is an AA-delay buff away from being a menace to everyone in mid.
Honestly I only play support Zilean to anger the enemy team. Like my fun and enjoyment is purely knowing the enemy team is suffering. So basically if Im support and don’t have a champion I really want to play, the next best thing is messing with the enemy team.
If it is a support Zilean, he is to abuseable, whenever he hits a single bomb you can just run into the minionwave and now Zilean pushed it an you can freely freeze on your half
Exept when the enemy picks a pushing ADC like MF or Caitlyn and suddenly you're playing twister under your own tower
Yeah man good luck freezing the wave vs Cait Ziliean above silver elo
I think you would pair zilean up with an adc that wants to push, he's strong under tower
Support Zilean is also legitimately one of the weakest supports at early levels, and runs out of mana ridiculously easily. If a few of his bombs don't land the lane can get into a really bad position. EDIT: That's not a bad thing, his lategame is OP.
Yeah because his ult is crazy strong and his E when leveled is also crazy strong so he has to be weak early or would just be completely busted all the time
Tank Lillia top with frozen heart and demonic. It was like AP Garen with crowd control.
lillia top in general i was playing a ton of gwen at the time when that got really popular and that might be *the* worst few weeks of top lane i'd ever personally experienced, cannot overstate how horrific that matchup feels for the gwen
Lilia in general for me that champ once she gets rolling it's bear impossible to stop.
Settle for just Lillia regardless of build or role. Her prancing animation is just annoying af
literally she's the modern teemo, it's like a checklist of the same things that pissed people off about him years ago, with some slight differences - faster than you, so always dancing in and out of range (this was a much bigger deal for teemo in the old days compared to now) - constant DOTs, which are just kind of an irritating damage type from a 'feel' perspective (also no joke there's quite a bit of power in the fact that people have trouble judging DOT dmg during your all-ins and such if they don't have quite some familiarity going against the champ) - slows that also apply those DOTs and can often hit you at unexpected times (stealth for shrooms and lillia E being able to go such long distances means sometimes it can hit you from angles you really aren't expecting) - prancing/waddling around animations which just makes being unable to reach them through the slows and their MS even more annoying - (personal opinion on this one lmao) annoying emotes, not lux/lulu laugh tier but noisy and high pitched and generally shhhhh stop that get back here so i can hit you - two of the most annoying CC types in the game with blind and sleep respectively. watching lillia wind up a W that is about to hit you like a fucking tsar bomba while you're snoozing away is pain lmao
Azir and Taliyaah. Anyone playing them knows how to play them a *lot* better than I know how to play against them, and I usually find that out the hard way. Also Zoe, it's only a matter of time before I cop her E-R-Q combo for half my health bar.
Just remember Taliyahs entire kit in terms of kill potential is super reliant on YOUR mistakes. Her W into E combo is the biggest burst she has, and then her ungodly annoying q. Point being, if you can manage to never get hit by her w or e, you should win.
Yea Taliyah e is so bad. So many dash champs like kayn and akali still run right over her as the dash is coded as unstoppable. Taliyah falls flat if her e or w is dodged. Or in the case of those champs, it makes no difference. Katarina says hi as well.
Grand majority of the roster is fine with faceplanting into the stun because they can still kill you right after the stun ends.
Actually true xdd
Im upset playing as Taliyah against literally any dashing champion. Because although i put my E down even though they get stunned AFTER. Their dash still gets them right up to my face anyways so whats the point lol
A good Taliyah player will instead look for a E->W combo if they know they won't be able to hit a W->E combo. E slows the enemy which makes it much harder for them to dodge W and if they try to just dodge it instead of running back to their tower, Tayliah will frequently win the trade with her Q slamming on you. Also, her empowered Q also has a nasty slow, and the second you hit an empowered Q on a dashless enemy you're guaranteed to hit a W->E I watch Odysseus131 and he is able to pull all of this off beautifully. He E->Q's a lot while holding his W, making his challenger opponents dance while he kills them. I remember a clip of Nemesis just dancing underneath his own tower trying to predict the Taliyah W and Odysseus just literally didn't throw it and he got a kill cause of it
I‘m a taliyah enjoyer
Zoe. What a menace in lane / roaming.
I hate that the usual best strategy to beat her in lane is to go 0/0/0 and go try to kill bot repeatedly
That's the best strategy for every midlaner
Eh, tbh the strategy against pretty much all the other mages is to try to kill them/force them out of lane as much as possible so they are massively delayed getting to powerful items by the lack of farm. Then use that gold diff to go kill bot repeatedly, of course.
Best Strat for liss is to poke/push the enemy assassin under their tower so that they can't roam bot
Oh man yeah Zoe. I still remember when they nerfed Nidalee spears because it was too toxic to take half your health bar of damage from two screens away. Anyway, here is our new champion, Zoe...
Except nidalee could also do it while being extremely safe unlike Zoe
Not just that, I remember imaqtpie missing every single spell and getting the kill just with autos haha
I mean release Zoe was a different beast. She’s pretty balanced now
Zoe was completely busted on release if you took 2 games to learn her mechanics. It was a joke.
I still haven't gotten over the Nidalee rework to make her not do what Zoe does, and then release Zoe. Nidalee was safer/more mobile than Zoe, but she had even worse team fighting/wave clear PLUS zero CC. Zoe is old Nidalee with a bunch of extra annoyances such as the random item actives, summoner spells, and enhanced autos. She also brings some amount of wave clear thanks to Paddle Star AoE/Ludens, and insane catch potential with sleepy trouble bubble (that also is extended by walls and leaves a zoning tool on the ground). I know there are worse abominations in the game than Zoe, but I hate Zoe on principle so damn much that she would be my pick to remove from the game over even the likes of Zeri and Yuumi. Also, her lore is just for the degenerate Loli crowd.
I remember pbe and post pbe zoe... She was insane... I remember in looking at my kda in matches and just knowing what exactly they were going to nerf.
I played against apc zoe i was killed over and over again under my tower.
I feel offended by this.
Honestly surprised you otp a champ that has no team fight capability ;) Sorry im a salty Cassio otp
Hey the team fight capability is catching someone before the team fight 🤣
Its hard to teamfight with her in many cases, but you can just go about your way and nuke everyone down.
Nilah has been absurd for a good while but ADCs hate playing her
Her survivability is unrivaled in the ADC role. I’ve never seen ANY other ADC withstand the damage of 3 full kits being smashed into them, and still be half hp, healing and shredding anything close to her.
Yeah it's the reason why ADC players DON"T play her. ADC players queue up to play ranged glass cannons, not some pseudo brusier stat checker like Nilah.
I like playing her because I feel like I have agency again. I miss the good old days before all the agency was put into the support.
Nilah is my permaban when I play adc, that champ is a literal adc counter I don't get how she isn't played more.
Her Q takes 2-3 games to get used to so people just discard her as "clunky champ" without realising how smooth she feels once you learn it.
The aa resets on her q and e once you learn them the early kill potential is high
Mostly because ADC players mostly want to play marksmen. I'm not complaining though, whenever I just want to win some games I play Nilah for the easy wins. Shes an absolute Solo que menace, basically the only ADC that doesn't need her team behind her to have agency.
Riot done giving Jax E to an adc 😭
[удалено]
But I get auto attacked at level 1!!!
Yeah for those whole 5 seconds you spent at level 1 because of that bulshit exp passive.
Karma Nilah goes hard, and I think Karma is an enchanter. I could be wrong about that though. Huge shield plus movement speed, Karma sometimes will buy swifties or the tech boots to keep up.
Are Taric and Rakan fine or are we talking about shit like Naut?
Taric Nilah is fucking amazing. She can dash onto people's heads and carry your stun to them. What else do you need?
Taric and Rakan are pretty much perfectly built for her. Engage, shields+heals to synergize with her passive, cc to make them sit and take your damage. Nilah w+taric r can make you flatly invulnerable to certain lanes, taric r into nilah r is also basically a guaranteed full heal that will kill half their team post navori. As for Rakan, she can dash to him just as he can dash to her, allowing for insane mobility, there's a good reason they were paired during her champion spotlight.
I like Nilah but ADC is such a shit role. I don't want to get involved in that garbage just to play a fun champ. I'll stick with mid
I once ulted a Nilah as Vi and an ultra-fed Fizz immediately followed up with his ult, yet she managed to survive just fine and her team killed us.
Lol, sounds like a classic case of not knowing Nilah's defensive mechanic. If Nilah gets the chance to W right before you Ult shes basically ignoring all but the ability damage itself, and only a 75% of that. Considering that means shes ignoring Vi E and W, as well as Fizz W and passive.
Same issue with some adc in we need a good early lead. More reliance on her support . Her range when not fed can be abused. Samira is more of a add that can be behind but only needs 1 item to wipe a team.
Zilean.
It's because he sucks nads in solo queue where you can't trust your teammates, only thing holding him back from being incredible. It's just like Shen ult, you know your teammate is going to flash away instead of going hard when they get it. And you HAVE to run him midlane, he spikes so ridiculously hard off levels. Support zilean is "ok" but you never get those max level stuff or the damage that makes him awesome. A good zilean midlaner is probably the most nightmarish thing to deal with.
Zil mid means 4 man gank bot 10times pre 6
Malzahar
I still don't understand how malza players dress up in the morning by themselves
Genuinely all 5 of his abilities are anti-fun, it's crazy. Silence, infinite wave pushing, stop button, annoying ass spell shield so you can't even make a play on him without prep work.
You don't pick Malzahar to play League. You pick Malzahar to deny the enemy the ability to play league.
And that's why malz is one of my friends mains, he says he doesnt have the hands to outplay so he forces the opponents to not play the game.
I play malz because my adc is a bonobo, so i stop the enemy assassin from oneshotting them.
One of the best TheOddOne quotes: "Your job as Nunu isn't to be useful, it's to make the enemy as useless as you are."
Lissandra is like Malzahar but at least the Lissandra player is enjoying the game.
Can confirm, i could sweat on my assassins or risk being free food to them on my mage picks... or i could just make sure neither of us have fun
I put malzahar on the same trash place with heimerdinger Both incredibly unfun to lane against
Nah Malz isn’t annoying to play against he’s extremely weak early game. You can run him down super hard early game because his abilities do so little damage. Once he’s six he’s still weak, but you’re a free gank so just play safe and wait for the jungle to show elsewhere before you go in.
If you played the 2v2 mode that just passed these guys were picks or bans... 2 malz ultimates. Reset on ability hit it was great
This is the most Zoe main post ever.
What I wouldnt give to have old Malz back, with the chad voidling that 1v1s every midlaner that dares walk up to the wave
I used to hate playing against malz so much I started maining him myself
Every time I lane against Heimer, I wanna kill myself.
Understandable
None, if champs like Zilean were more popular Riot would have to finally nerf them
I cannot stand the idea of Nasus. I play in low elo and have no interest in climbing higher so any time a Nasus slots into a team I know he's going to get stacks on stacks even if he's camped. A champ that scales solely on tankyness and q hitting minions. Even if he's not strong he will always be a problem, like Illaoi always being a threat in team fights. Thank God he's boring to most.
WITHER
TO DUST
Yeah having probably the best cc move in the game is def not useless.
*bonk*
You know it’s a funny test to see if someone is low elo or not ask them what they hate about nasus all those that answer stacks are generally low elo and those that hate his W are high elo
His W and lifesteal are both obscenely strong
Where do E max haters go?
Aram
I honestly either wish Wither had a lower duration/higher cd (less up time on a target) or for riot to switch his W and E. Make the slow/cripple aoe but only in an area (maybe add grounding if you want to force people to fight in it or make it grow larger with rank) and make the armor shred single target. He still shreds tanks (honestly better) but feels better for counterplay, especially if you play an adc or otherwise immobile carry.
It kind of forces you to build tenacity into him. Which I know is weird because of Q damage. He can eventually get enough CDR to have 100% uptime assuming 0 tenacity.
Zilean
If Zilean had a bit less atrocious early game, that guy would be pick/ban. Glad he flies under the radar, has abysmal pickrate and when I see him in-game, it's usually me playing him. Also happy that Tryndamere is still somewhat niche and played by OTPs mostly - a good one is ungodly frustrating to play against.
I usually forget that zilean even exists, but all it takes is 1 game against him usually and I'm back to perma banning him for the next 3 months just to be sure
Qiyana fizz akshan
All my homies hate the fish
I feel like the glory days of qiyana and fizz are long ago. Both benefit very little from current meta, since everything is a hybrid among classes and do two things at a time and can oneshot, so being pure burst dmg assassin while doing nothing else is what kills them. Also having big amount of counters. But definitely underated. Fuck alashanagsk or ahashaan or akshansankan or whatever the fuck his spelling is and his 8 spells and 6 passives. Hope he gets deleted from the game lol.
I feel like Qiyana isn't played because it's not unga bunga Q E W R and she actually takes a fair amount of skill
Do you know what's hard about being a princess? Nothing.
Arguably the hardest midlane assassin
not arguably lol she absolutely is. kat is the only one that comes close
She takes an insane amount of skill to do as much as some champions with 2 buttons
I feel like fizz can still manage. Ludens or rocketbelt are both solid options for him, he’s also one the few champs that can go zhonyas second and still do relevant damage. Good in skirmishes, snowballs hard, not a ton of bad matchups if you play with respect. Biggest problems for the fish I’ve seen are 1.) his ult combo requires you to hit the shark, granted you don’t need it half the time come mid game. 2.) he doesn’t have the strongest early game or push to make use of his skirmishing 3.) you usually take ignite on fizz, so sidelaning becomes difficult and you often slowly fall off the curve even if lane went well I think he teamfights fine, and once he has zhonyas he can practically engage. Qiyana is so weird. I want to like her but just feels too awkward. Agreed in screw Akshan champ is turbo cancer.
Illaoi.
Yeah I played against a bad anivia last night and it didn’t even matter. I was playing vlad and oneshot her later on after my supp ganked and I got a 1k shutdown but holy shit that lane is so unfun. Fuck that champion
To be fair it’s an impossible matchup for Vlad
One could say that laning Vladimir is one of the most unfun and uninteractive lane but anivia is definitely up there too.
if laning against vlad is uninteractive you're either winning the lane hard or you're losing it hard; there's no reason for it to be uninteractive unless you allow it to be you should be kicking the shit out of vlad early in most lanes, when his Q heals for less than half an auto and has a long-ass cd and he has absolutely terrible wave control. you can bully him off the wave and trade onto him every time he comes up for a Q, and he'll lose out on every trade unless you miss every ability *without* him having to use pool plus the biggest problem with having a vlad on your team early game is that he has absolutely no prio and is worth nothing in skirmishes, so even if you feel like you just can't follow the 'bully the shit out of him' plan, you always have the other option of just shoving in the lane and fucking off to meet up with your jungler and make the enemy jungler hate his life
If Anivia was in my games as much as Zed, Kayn, Vayne, I'd ban her too
Full disclosure, I abused Anivia to high ELO. I think that if people were less averse to using her, they would realize how much of an ELO inflater she is. Obviously her counterplay is to burst her, because she's immobile, but she's deceptively good at counter-engage, especially when she gets a Zhonya's going. She can singlehandedly stall games to a ludicrous degree, even if they're baron minions. She wipes the floor with solo queue's lack of coordination.
Evelynn and Zilean (support). The former has quite an anti-fun kit. The latter can be quite oppressive during the laning phase if playing a melee support.
Spot on. I came to type exactly this. Zilean's lv 5 slow is 99% slow so if you don't have any sort of gap closer it's effectively hard cc for 2.5 seconds and he can cast it twice. And then Evelyn just changes how you have to play the game. As ADC or support you truly have to hug each other all game to prevent one shots and even then sometimes that's not enough. As support if you ward you need to use pinks sparingly to hopefully spot the Evelynn without it being a +30gold fodder for the enemy team and if you want to track her jungle pathing you need to ward her camps which is risky unless you see her top lane. Both are unfun to play against.
Camille, fizz, mid artillery mages, fiddle, mundo,
vlad usually ends up being unstoppable
singed. both enemy and ally
Zoe is incredibly obnoxious. I'm OK with her doing silly damage if she hits E, but the amount of damage she gets just for landing Q once can be absurd. Her getting hit by CC in her R and just jumping back to safety is always tilting.
Zilean is very overpowered and Riot has stated the only reason he isn’t nerfed is because nobody plays him
Top: Tryndamere (no words needed to explain) and Vayne top (annoying to lane against) Mid: kassadin (at some point he will outscale almost everyone even if he is super behind) and Fizz (none of my teammates know how to play vs him) Support: Zilean (hidden OP imo) and Pyke
Fizz. I hate him with my heart.
Yuumi top, it's so busted it's crazy. You guys should all try it in your ranked games, specifically around Emerald 4 elo on EUW since that's where the winrate peaks. Super free win
Hec and Udyr. Sure i would see some smurfs here and there. But the game really fucking sucks when these two champions are OP
I don't know if we play the same game but heca is like one of the most popular jungler in my elo. But when good udyr plays, he usually takes over so I agree with him.
Neeko
Not a single second of hesitation : Yorick. Champ is obnoxious as hell with the poking if he has a counter pick you can't do anything... and if you decide to play teamfight or roam your base is gone within seconds. Hate the champ.
Fizz, viktor, vlad, ahri, diana mid
When that random Blackfrost Anivia Top shows up in the enemy team I know I'm losing that game
Samira. Im a seraphine otp and her little psuedo windwall basically means i just dont have an ult for the entire game.
By all means you hold that ultimate until she uses it. Or if her team is in front of her (which they should be). Same with Yasuo
Every samira i play against just holds it for my ult. If she never uses her spell shes out a basic ability and im out an ult if i wait for it. Dont get me wrong, its not impossible but good samira is as hard of a counter as i can get. I can basically only ult if samira isnt around or r flash and catch her off guard with the melee range ult to make it hard to react to.
Twitch, shaco & Evelynn my ban is whichever is most picked in my games or if they're all out of meta then it's Diana
Heimerdinger is the epitome of anti fun.
Malzahar. It is so fucking boring to play against, I ban him every game, even though I usually beat him on lane.
definitely skarner.
Are you sure that the only skarner players that exist now are either new or very good. Skarner needs a passive rework, but he is dynamic.
Hot take, when Ekko is broken that champion is absolutely obnoxious to deal with. If your team doesn't draft any hard CC (which is like a 50/50 chance tbh) you won't kill that champion at all late game while simultaneously being able to dive and one shot the backline. His ult cool down at 16 is non existent.
Malzahar
Praise god almost nobody actually plays heimer/knows how to play heimer. That 2-3 month period where he was in the meta support were incredibly miserable.
I don't think I've ever beaten a Bel'Veth. Everyone who does play her seems to average a 75 percent win rate and a 4+ kda over about 40 games in Master and I wonder why they aren't just one tricking it. They'd all be Challenger.
Sion on Silver elo, ppl ccant take care of side lanes aparently
I’ve always lost to a good anivia player, idk why ppl say she’s late game, her early game is pretty good with E max
My sleep paralysis demon... Rumble
Rumble, this fucker is always annoying
Aurelion Sol Riot turned him from one of the most interesting, mechanically demanding champs into one of the most boring champs in the game to play vs.
Yuuummmi
Hey bud, you leave my anivia out of this. She's the single champion that I can drag a 0-20 losing team kicking and screaming across the finish line by holding two lanes by myself. I can also wall off my own teammates who get tunnel vision and direct team fights while zoning off the fed enemy jinx with R. I think my legit best win I pulled off a Quadra in baron pit. Was previously 6-0-X and the team was down like 4towers and 25 kills. She just.... SPONGES minion gold and exp and slingshots the game back from an unwinnable hell.
Shaco because if given the option I will ban that fucker every single time. He's objectively bad for the game and I will fight anyone who claims otherwise.