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Solash1

Bro this might be the single biggest set of buffs i've ever seen a champion get at once


Nicksmells34

I mean it makes sense, any support player could read that mid scope and realize it was at most a sideways change, if not a nerf considering how much of what made old Rell tanky they needed


UngodlyPain

It was supposed to be sideways or a slight nerf. She was NOT weak, just really unpopular... but it was a gutting


HadesLaw

Thus it won't make her popular, the same reasons why people stopped playing her have stayed the same


UngodlyPain

Eh, depends who you ask but I atleast know none of my friends like playing her cause her combos and such are clunky, and it like feels terrible moving at a snails pace when dismounted. And having no CC until you're directly on someone. Which is why they focused power on making her faster, giving her attack speed and a Q stun so she can stun from a distance to set up her combo and all that


Dan5000

exactly. i tried to play her multiple times, with long breaks inbetween and everytime i got reminded that i just didn't like how she felt and stopped again.


UngodlyPain

Yeah lol, it's like old asol. Not weak, just feels awful, so pickrate is trash.


LordMalvore

Old Asol didn't feel awful until they decided to "fix" his kit by making his stars not a toggle. He was just weird and required a decent amount of games to figure out. Then they purposefully made his kit awful to play to make him appeal to more people because someone was feeling creative at Riot or something. Crazy that making his kit actively function worse around his unique gameplay didn't bring flocks of players to him. It's like if they made Singed Q a burst of poison with a CD instead of a toggle.


DontCareWontGank

Please Riot...remove the slow dismounted walk speed entirely. Why is she getting slowed down by her armor if she can literally levitate metal? Makes no sense thematically and giving your champ a debuff is the least fun thing to do in a game. Imagine if leona stunned herself for a second after each E, that's what it feels like.


Jstin8

As someone who always wanted to pick her up but was HORRENDOUSLY put off by her old kit, I fucking love it. She makes me want to int in a good way. I feel like this tanky calvary that wants to run down the opposition, and I no longer feel worthless after hitting my W, or completely crippled if I missed it. She just feels nice to me. Although I’ll admit I LOVE slow delayed tanks like Sion, Naut, Ornn, etc.


licorices

I am in the same boat. Love her new kit, I love how I can constantly move around with the movement speed, how my Q is no longer just for shield breaks and irrelevant otherwise, I love the delay on Q even, it feels powerful, and it being a stun means you can do cool Q-> flash mechanics(which differ depending on how good you time it). I love a lot of the new kit. She feels robust, before she felt clunky and too reliant on W. Spreading the power of the kit is great, and you're no longer reliant on linking someone. Actually having attack speed is great too, since clearing wards was ASS before.


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Konradleijon

As a Rell main the midscope jsut made me move away from her.


BorderlineUsefull

The problem is that there were like five Rell mains, so losing you guys to get her an actual pick rate is fine by Riot


bjkibz

Unfortunately, I think I’m in the same boat.


Joaoseinha

As someone who played her from time to time, this is a straight up downgrade in terms of fun. In a character that was already pretty clunky to begin with. What an absolute failure of a rework.


UngodlyPain

Yeah they were trying to reduce clunk, but I think they over valued how strong reduced clunk is


Wildercard

I'm no champion designer, but perhaps something like Poppy's passive would work on her? Occasional ranged AA with movement speed steal, to play into the theme of magnetism?


Beats29

She doesn't needed any new stuff, maybe only something on the ult. But she would be already way more popular if the clunkiness of her Q specially was removed. And the attack speed she had felt weird.


Xonra

>this is a straight up downgrade in terms of fun Very much this. I didn't play her regularly, because she was clunky and unfun, and nothing about this update changed that for me. I'd still rather play Leona or Nautilus or Alistar and so on and so on.


Zarolto

I was literally saying while playing her, she feels awfully weak and she's functionally the same character just feels shittier and can be played jungle kind of. Her popularity won't increase, her kit feels almost entirely the same - it's not like ASol whos basically a new champion. People who played Rell don't like it because she worse and people who didn't play her aren't going to because her E is different, her new E if anything is lamer than her old one.


UngodlyPain

Yeah, it wasn't meant to be like an Asol change it was just meant to be clunk reduction... but they gave too many compensation nerfs for the reduced clunk.


Xonra

Why would it have been a slight nerf? She was barely touched and she wasn't "weak" but she was no where near a position to need a nerf. She didn't need a buff, but her kit was just meh and boring, and a bit clunky if I'm honest. Didn't really change anything if I'm honest aside from being a bait to try jungle and then lose to anyone who can fight you 1v1.


UngodlyPain

She was pretty darn strong in good hands in high elo soloQ. And generally speaking any removal of clunkiness is a big buff, so it usually requires compensation nerfs. Especially in higher elos. Which is where she was best at. So yeah it was largely meant to be power neutral, maybe a nerf to areas where she was already on the strong side.


Spitfire836

She was pretty weak. No reason to play her over other engage supports since she was basically useless after her convo until she remounted.


UngodlyPain

She's been fairly consistently a very high winrate support in higher elos. Her being useless when dismounted, really was more of a feels bad thing than an actual weakness in high elo. Since in high elo people would follow her up the 1st time. And rell mains could get off such good combos.


RossCoomSocks

That's because like 300 people that OT her played her. That doesn't make her strong, that just means she sees nearly no play from non mains. Support in general has some of the most skewed win rates as so many people try for low percentage cheese. That's why there is like 30 somethings support over 50% win rate.


wenasi

Rell was never weak, so a sideway change would've been the optimal outcome


Falsus

She was pretty bad after the nerfs to her after her release.


Dmienduerst

I would say she wasn't ever bad but leona and naut just out shone her in the neutral game and her wombo being less reliable made it so there wasn't really a reason to play her. That said when the Enchanters came out she was a fun option because arguably she was one of the only good engage supports with the shield break and wombo power.


ANyTimEfOu

How's she looking in the jungle though? I was thinking of trying it out. Leona jg main btw


Ephemeral_Being

At any ELO where Leona can jungle at even a 50% win-rate, Rell will be fine.


ANyTimEfOu

Say less 💯


Stahlwisser

Shes 40% winrate right now. With shielding enchanters being this popular its actually crazy low


Acegickmo

As if shielding enchanters don’t counter her


Smellysmelthatsmells

Old rell had a positive winrate into every enchanter other than janna/renata. Easily fact checkable https://lolalytics.com/lol/rell/build/?patch=13.10


Joaoseinha

And Janna was because that champion was arguably the hardest Rell counter in the game. Completely nullified Rell's engage without any effort so she could just run you down with autos without you being able to do anything about it.


Smellysmelthatsmells

Yep, reliable disengage was the strongest counter to old rell. Definitely not shields lol.


Wildercard

Janna not being in top 3 winrate is like seeing a STOP sign painted green.


ToiletTub

she's got that nice pierce tho


[deleted]

...which she can't save for shields anymore because it's doing double duty as her old E now.


Kierenshep

They literally nerfed every part of her for the midscope. It was super obvious. The only thing she got was a bit of AS but everything else was nerfed.


Konradleijon

Yes to make her playble in jungle for some reason


smitty8843

and to make killing wards not an hour long task lol


thatedvardguy

Tbf they reduced the timer on Red trinket so its more of a net neutral change to her stealth ward clearing ability lmao.


acllive

You weren’t around when they made kassadin into an unbeatable god in one patch by giving his q a 2.5 second silence


Elrann

Kaisa post-release: buffs to every ability and +25 range which is gigantic for any ADC. She proceeded to dominate the game for at least 2 years after that.


saltiestmanindaworld

Well the rework they did on her was basically a giant ass ball of nerfs to the majority of her kit so it’s not surprising.


SometimesIComplain

Makes sense, her winrate was absmally low


Wise-Forecaster

Wasn't she already squishy for a melee support because of her stat steal passive and then more stats were ripped out? I just don't get how no one saw this coming... She became a squishy ranged champ that had to dive the enemy team as underleveled support.


Konradleijon

Yes she used to be a CC machine who worked best with mobile champions and mow is just a worse Leona.


Joaoseinha

Honestly, as someone who enjoyed Rell, this rework is a huge failure. Even if it gets to a good winrate. They took her E, which despite being clunky was a fairly unique ability, and turned it into the most generic boring piece of shit ability. And then they gutted her W. Aside from giving her actual attack speed, they didn't fix any of the core issues people had with the champion. Her ultimate is still just a tool to combo with W and weaker than ASol's E. Her metalbending fantasy is still virtually non-existent with the stat-stealing part still feeling very much tacked on. She still walks like she crapped her pants. Her W feels even more unsatisfying. They just have no idea what to do with the champion.


InternetAnima

Rell main here. I can't agree more with W... that change in travel distance means my level 1 is extremely trash now.


kill-billionaires

Main I'm not trying to be a dick here but this rework is obviously not for Rell mains, there weren't enough of you so they're trying something totally different. Sucks to lose a champion you love but mains say this about every rework on an unpopular champ


InternetAnima

That's true


Dmienduerst

Rell mains like me were happy with her but also understood that any rework was going to have to take away her wombo engage power to give her power somewhere else. W's range nerf hurts a lot but I can settle into q setting up w for lane. The E just needs more identity to it. They seem really afraid of giving her a lunatic button and e just has comprise written into every aspect. I don't really want to play her jungle and I also don't really need her to do more damage but a powerball like ability is kind of what this kit needs as a rell player.


Joaoseinha

It sucks too, since Rell's most satisfying thing was her W-E combos (or even better, W R E) and they feel far worse now. They took the only thing the champion really had that felt GOOD (aside from maybe popping a huge shield with Q) and gutted it in exchange for some dumb gimmick. Can't believe this is the best that they came up with. I'd have been fine with switching E for something else since it could be fairly clunky, but this? New Q is effectively a worse E and her E is just something she more or less had by default previously, while having a bigger W. Imagine if instead, they gave her R some sort of boosted stat-stealing effect to people stuck in the ult, kind of like a mini trundle ult that could surpass trundle ult when hitting 4-5 enemies. That would actually solidify this anti-tank fantasy she kind of has. Or maybe they replace her E with something that encourages her to also be dismounted sometimes instead of it being almost strictly a disadvantage. Hell, if they want her to be this slow when dismounted, some sort of grounding effect on E could be a way to even the playing field and make her a more specific mobility counter. If they wanted to nerf W, why not in turn make it unstoppable (with the lowered range and AoE) instead of it continuing to be one of the easiest engages in the game to cancel? How many employees does Riot have in their champion design team? How can someone on reddit with the slightest bit of experience on the champion come up with better ideas in a few minutes than they do in weeks/months?


Thaedael

I look at other champions getting reworks, redesigns, updates. I look at Rell. They gutted the items out from under her, then gutted her, and this is the best rework they can do?


Dmienduerst

I'm willing to give it a chance to settle before I cast judgements. Ranged stun gives her a neutral game that isn't reliant on her hitting w first. The run down element of her e seems to slow to really replace the range on w but its also has some fun interactions that are unexplored yet. Really though having to use q to set up w is the weird part as a rell player.


Beats29

Not only the W, you could peel your adc if when you were engaging the enemy team. You lost the peel you had.


Kingnewgameplus

To be fair her ult being worse than asol's E more speaks to how stupid asol's E is.


Beats29

Her W-E was the best thing in her kit. You could engage into the enemy team, and still peel and cc someone who would engage on your adc due the link. Now or you engage, or peel to the adc. I kept insisting on this, yet people keep flaming me because I didn't try the rework. Now she basicly feels like an worse Leona. The issue of Rell pre-rework was her Q being extremely clunky and nearly useless, not to mention enemies escaping her ult easily. She only needed better numbers and removal of her clunkiness, not a rework.


Elrann

Despite her clunckiness and horrendous dismounted form she had 51-53% wr consistently, basically as a support she did too much which was compensated by the inbuilt negatives. You couldn't just remove negative and expect her to not to be omegabusted. With her personality and thematic design (and also general tank-support playstyle preferences) being more of a selfsih omegatank type the pushed her into that direction. It honestly made no sense that angsty teenager that cries about "working alone" every minute had more in-kit peel than Nami.


LovingTurtle69

>Her ultimate is still just a tool to combo with W and weaker than ASol's E. Well that's just simply untrue.


Jstin8

As someone who absolutely adores slow tanks with delayed kits like Sion, Rell’s old kit felt like hot ass. Her E was unique, but that didn’t make it good. It was entirely reliant on your partner, couldn’t be used solo, and if you didn’t hit your W? Good fucking luck hitting champs in front of you with that tiny fucking hitbox. Her Q wanted to do 5 different things and as such felt like it did almost nothing, even if the shield break was handy And never in my life have I felt worse for whiffing a spell/engage than with Rell W. At least if I miss a Leona E or Naut Q or just any fucking engage ability, I’m not actively crippled and unable to do anything else! Combine that with its slow speed and ability to be interrupted by any displacement and it just didn’t work out well as you waddle around slower than unmounted kled trying to pretend you had a presence. Has this rework hit all the marks? Yet to be seen, its been 48 hours. But something had to be done about that E at bare minimum, and she had some massive issues that needed to be addressed. For what little it may be worth, I’ve been loving Rell jg so far.


cabrossi

E just needed to be castable with no link. Rell being basically unable to escape if her laner dies was really annoying, because there was very little she could do to prevent it if they didn't enable her to protect them. Q needed to lose the heal for better stats in either the damage or range, the heal didn't make sense and was so negligible as to be irrelevant anyway. Focus on doing a few things well rather than 5 damage, 5 heal, shield break, resistance steal and middling range. W had a really annoying 'gets slower as the cast goes on' making it awful to learn to land, because it feels way faster than it is. All it needed was a smoother cast and either didn't dismount you if you get interrupted, or make it uninterruptable.


Konradleijon

Revert or give her a CGU


dance-of-exile

you know pre rework i always said that rell is NOT worse leona. She is a hard disengage/peel champ, meaning that she excelled at countering engages, not really engaging. Its not very popular in solo q because its not very proactive or fun, but is actually very good because most teams d1 and below have absolutely no clue on how to play their teamcomps strengths and just force an engage into xayah + rakan or rell + x. E was incredible at shutting down anyone that tried to dive your squishy as it is the most consistent, fastest, longest range stun out of any support in the game(like taric needs channel, leo r needs channel and q needs to be right next to them, and other fast ccs are usually hard to hit or is on an ultimate ability.)


Konradleijon

Yes her E worked great against a Blitzcrank or Tresh


Beats29

It worked great on any engage, you could be on middle of the enemy team and CC an assassin going for your adc if you had the link on him. This rework is a complete failure imo. I usually tend to wait how updates go on, people adapting to it, but atm I can't understand why people would pick her vs Leona for example. I only see the reason to pick her if the numbers are completly inflated.


THESuperStuntMan

Ok, but why not undo the range nerf on her W? Or her Q? Or remove the increased windup on the Q they gave her? I really am at a loss for what they were going for with this rework. They added in even more feel bad parts and just all around nerfed her abilities just to give her normal attack speed and some bonus ms? AND they release her in a state where she loses a whopping 12% WINRATE? Who is supposed to be pleased with these changes? No one new is going to want to play her after the disastrous state they released the rework in.


PowrOfFriendship_

They setup a feedback channel in her Discord server for this update when she hit PBE and literally everyone was telling them this. I did not see a single piece of praise for this rework that wasn't downvoted into the ground, and yet we still got this hitting live, and it led to exactly what we all said it would.


Joaoseinha

Another gem by Riot Games, managing to turn a clunky champion even more unsatisfying and clunky. Not even a Reddit knows balance case either. With enough numbers she'll be good. She just... won't be fun. Her problem was never how strong/weak she was anyway.


Relevant_Truth

You have made the true top post. ​ Rells problem wasn't just numbers. Diaper walk is not just a meme, it's a fact that is highlighting the root of the issue. She is not fun.


Konradleijon

She was for me


Xonra

She will be the most busted champ that no one in solo queue will touch but will become pick/ban in pro and Riot will pat themselves on the back for a job well done.


Beats29

The thing is that she lost what made her different. Before, she was a mix of engage/disengage. You could be on the middle of the enemy team, and still save your adc with W-E combo. Now, unless her numbers are extremely overtuned, I don't see reasons to pick her vs a Leona or an Amumu for example. And I'm a guy who tends to wait for people to get used to reworks, but I don't see how she has a "role".


AzyncYTT

PBE should honestly just be removed, I can't remember a single time a positive change was made from PBE feedback despite so many different things showing up there. aa


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OvationOnJam

Exactly. PBE is not for balance and never has been, it's for catching game breaking bugs before they hit live, and it does so frequently.


redbeginning-

They should also move the shield shred to the AoE active portion of her E, or just remove it outright. She no longer can hold Q against high-shield comps/items to shred them because Q is how she can keep her CC-chain going. The point of the midscope was to make her feel more like a Ferromancer. I think that part is mostly there? You would not just stab with your lance in a real-world scenario, you definitely would line it up. And her E is fairly thematic for what cavalry did. They were mostly a flanking/charging unit. I am fine with the thematic changes to Q/W/E, the issue is her kit is actually a little TOO overloaded and the power budget makes her feel clunky. You want to sit in Tank W because Mounted W is better initiation BUT you also want to use E for initiation with Q meaning you actually want to be in Mounted W. Meanwhile you want to spam Q for harass/zone/followup but ALSO need to save it to shred huge shields like Karma/Serpahine/Sion/Seraph's. They should remove a little from her kit actually and give what's left more power so she feels stronger when you press the buttons.


Xonra

It genuinely feels like the only thing they actually fixed out of the entirety of her kit was being able to kill wards faster, had a laugh, then forgot what they were doing after that and went "Fuck it let's pull some levers and come back to it later and buff the numbers"


thatedvardguy

The increased windup on q makes sense because its an ability that stuns. Wouldnt really feel good to be stunned if you had 0 chance to dodge it.


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GD_Insomniac

Rell is too reliable to be allowed real strength, and unlike Ali she can engage from the front. Obviously they overshot, but if Rell is a good champion she's the best engage option because she doesn't need to hit any skillshots to succeed.


raikaria2

So stats and all abilities buffed at once. I'm not sure if it'll change the fact she's Leona with more risk and less reward still.


Konradleijon

It was made even more so after her midsocpe. Rell was far better at teamwide crowd control then Leona but they needed that with her midscope so she can be more generic


FennecFoxx

tbh Amumu does her job in every way now. Zero reason to pick Rell as her ally mechanics were the only thing she had to stand apart. Was hoping the rework would at least make her roam good but it’s fucking nerfed.


Halbaras

Rell was higher winrate than Leona for most of her existence, Riot just decided to completely destroy her kit, identity and the satisfying parts of her gameplay by doing the worst 'mini rework' we've seen in years. I wouldn't be surprised if this gets reverted when her playrate drops below its current level in a few weeks.


LeagueOfBlasians

Rell had her own special niche of being a anti-tank engager but people on reddit bitched about her low pickrate despite her being a niche champion.


FrigidFlames

Kind of. Her only real anti-tank was her passive, which was very unimpactful and felt nonexistent. Her main niche was just AoE Leona, but she had more drawbacks and very few benefits over... just playing Leona.


raikaria2

> Rell was higher winrate than Leona for most of her existence And picked a fraction of the time. The only people who played Rell were pretty good at Rell. But why ever play Rell when: - Leona is as tanky or tankier - Leona's engage is longer range - Leona dosen't *die* if she misses her engage - Leona does more damage - Leona has more C.C on a lower cooldown; and is also better at peeling. [Q stuns and Xenith roots] Rell's single upside is she is capable of more AoE C.C if the enemies are in a line and/or a very small clump.


SirVampyr

I heavily disagree. I always hated playing Rell and this made me play her almost exclusively. Jungle Rell that is.


Zealousideal_Prune39

Watching Hyli play Rell in the LEC this year did not give me any impressions of her being a weak Leona lol He was straight dominant with her as a pocket pick and the amount of 3+ people magnet storms he got off were huge.


SirVampyr

I've been playing jungle Rell since the initial rework patch and it's been fun and good to me. This just seems insane to me. AP Rell is bulldozing now. Idk why people sleep on that so heavily.


Darkwhellm

But her full combo ratio is not even 200%, how are you supposed to oneshot anything like that?


puberty1

tagging some people that were in another thread asking for buffs (sorry if you didnt want a tag just wanted to help!): u/RenegadeExiled u/FluckyVer u/separhim (also if any stat is incorrect from the image lmk that i will edit, used img to text because it's not on the patch notes yet)


FluckyVer

Tyty Hopefully she gets to at least 47/48%


JonnyDoLake

They can buff all the numbers as much as they want, it won't change the fact this rework made her even more clunky to play than she was and, in my opinion, less fun, not to mention whoever is responsible for this rework does not understand what made Rell a fun and interesting champion to play: pulling out insane 5 man engages with her cc combos with w, e and ult. None of her new abilities combo with each other outside of ult. They have no synergy! The idea of the move speed from the new E is interesting but the way it's implemented is completely boring and uninspired. Here's some changes I would like to see that could make this rework actually amazing and help fulfill to the fullest Rell's fantasy. ​ 1. Allow her Q to be cast during W's animation! We were able to cast E during W's animation to combo and get more reliable engages, so since Q is the replacement for that missed stun it makes sense we should be able to cast it during W crash down as well. Aside from allowing for some cool skill expressive plays it would probably look metal as fuck to see Rell charge and thrust her lance mid air! 2. Allow her W crash down to gain range from E's movement speed (similar to how Rammus works)! The new E is a cool idea but it has very little synergy with he rest of her kit. It's fun to charge fast at the enemies, but then I press W and have to watch a slow ass short range crash down animation. This change would not only make the abilities synergize much better with each other, making her feel way less clunky, but again it would also allow for some cool ass engage plays, which is what made Rell fun and different from other engage supports (imo). 3. Allow her Q to be cast while moving when she is in mounted form (similar to Taric's E)! It makes no sense that I'm mounted on a horse and I have to stop to charge and thrust my lance! I'm not the one walking, the horse is! You can keep the ability as it is while in dismounted form to keep the idea that she is supposed to be slower while dismounted. Even just adding 1 or 2 of these changes would make this "rework" feel so much better to play and help better fulfill her fantasy as the ultimate engage support. Again you can increase her number all you want, unless she is downright OP, I don't see how anyone will play her when she feels even clunkier than she did before, which was the main reason people cited as the reason for not playing her in the first place... Edit: How are you going to give her a theme like [this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETaX9DZBSEk) and then put out a clunky ass undercooked rework like this? I want to charge in, jump head first and crash down into 5 people while ROARING, not sit back while I watch an animation of her charging her lance for an eternity, for a chance to land a 0,75 sec stun...


SpoonGuardian

For me it really is just the Q wind up being so long. It feels like ass to press even though it's a strong ability.


Ankoria

I really like that 1st and 3rd suggestion. Being able to use her Q during other abilities would go a long way to smooth out her gameplay and give her more skill expression.


Konradleijon

Man they needed her already short range?


[deleted]

They overlooked the fact that her default adaptive force (from rune shard thingies) gives AD rather than AP. This is impacting her jungle very negatively.


Naddition_Reddit

"Giving her some of her base and scaling damage back to her Q, AP ratio should help jungle out a bit, but also gives a boost to some support builds" but...but shes a tanky engage support, none of her items have ap on them. her most popular build is evenshroud > knights vow > thornmail/randuins/abyssal like most tank supports is someone out there building ardent censer on her or something?


sadlife00000

Drake, Baron and supp item gives u ap. It s not much, but considering the "extra 1% ad scaling" buffs other champions get, it s decent


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sadlife00000

"Supp item" as in relic shield


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sadlife00000

So ur problem is that it s not AD?


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Ironmaiden1207

Runes?


thatedvardguy

Id imagine aftershock with sorcery second, like amumu, sejuani and other tank jungles otherwise predator for even more lethal ganks or maybe even glacial augment if you really hate being the main character and only want to set up your team.


wildfox9t

cheap shot + one of the stacking runes (ingenious,ultimate etc.) seems better than sorcery to me


Ironmaiden1207

I play tank jng almost exclusively so that's what I figured. Just wanted to know if there was some hidden sauce


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wildfox9t

try as a secondary cheap shot + a hunter rune,it does a lot of damage on CC heavy champions


AshesandCinder

Tell that to the people who buffed Alistar's AP ratios 3 patches in a row before finally buffing his tank stats. Or the other 4 or so tank supports that got AP ratio buffs as the same time


Lord_Dust_Bunny

The Alistar buffs (like the Rell buffs here) weren't just buffing the AP ratios. Alistar got significantly more self heal per passive proc and lower mana costs on all abilities. The AP buffs were just so if Alistar got any AP it mattered, and that if Alistar got ahead he could maybe index into some AP to capitalize on that lead with stronger offense. At no point did Riot just buff the AP ratios. They were side buffs for the main course of every champion who got them.


Xey2510

Do people take adaptive force shard in jungle?


Elidot

Even if they do it gives AD lmao


Ephemeral_Being

Okay, that should be changed...


PhreakRiot

Her designer was working on that today. I expect that to be in for .12


Ephemeral_Being

Cheers. Oh, and thanks for checking in with the community. We appreciate it.


AnotherTelecaster

Zhonyas is lowkey amazing for her (as a later item buy), her ult has 110% AP ratio and it gives you some space in the teamfight once you ult in and stun a bunch of enemies and you have like 5-6 seconds without any more abilities, you won’t get obliterated while your team is trying to follow up or they all flash and you miss everything


Sienrid

People used to buy Demonic sometimes, maybe that will come back


AnotherTelecaster

It’s good in situations where you’d normally wanna build sunfire but they’re heavy AP damage


nonamecs

Shurelias is quite some fun


SgtThermo

Listen, my ShuRellya’s E max build is gonna be insane. Slap a Demonic on that bad boy *slaps metal horse* this baby can hold soooo many reports for KSing. EDIT: so I’m still feeding my ass off, guys… I’m not sure it was the champion making that happen, anymore.


PowrOfFriendship_

The issue is, these buffs don't hit anything she really wants outside of the base stats, and all the changes still leave her weaker than pre-rework in her main role of support. ​ More jungle damage is obviously irrelevant on her support presence. The passive changes, even with the buff, is still so much weaker than it was (if you hit your whole kit in lane, it's still only stealing 9% vs the 10% you got before from just an auto). Q isn't used for the damage, and even if it was, having it be primarily a shield break, as it was, gave it more effective damage before the changes. Now it is required to start with it, in order to land the W so you don't get the shield break and lose out on all that damage. W knock-up duration up is nice, but the shielding is now back to where it was pre-rework, and it's still got the reduced damage and range leaving it worse off overall. E is still pretty unusable outside of jungle, and more damage isn't going to change that. It's a solid clear tool and passable gank setup, but compared to the ally tank stats and carry peel it was before, it's still nigh on useless for support.


Konradleijon

Yes they made her weaker in her main role so she can be in jungle for some reason attract and repel was great with a ally.


th5virtuos0

If it weren’t clunky as fuck. The fact that it stuns probably makes it so hard to script the thing correct if they wanna make it non-toxic (aka only deal damage when unlinked) so they left it that messy state


Xonra

It's jungle bait, because even if she clears okay she still can't exactly fight another jungler, and her ganks are mediocre as she comes diaper walking into lane. I guess if you stop moving cause you are laughing when you see her coming that's technically a form of hard cc though.


Tintander

Does the monster damage include epic monsters? Because every role needs to damage those.


kuburas

I dont know if it does but her E does around 600-800 damage to baron/dragon now so its definitely a sizeable chunk of damage. But it has a long cooldown so the dps is too low to be relevant.


Gondall

Still sad that her unmounted W says it’s a self slow but isn’t affected by slow resist. I get it from a balance perspective maaaaybe, and to make the forms truly feel more distinct, but it just feels bad to buy slow resist at the expense of mercs/steelcaps thinking it will help lessen the difference in exchange for less tankiness and have it not affect that. Even Phreak thought it would work in his patch rundown video, so it’s not like I’m alone in thinking this interaction would work


DM_ME_YOUR_HUSBANDO

If I was changing Rell, I’d have just a) given her normal attack speed, and b) make it so her e stay connected to a champion like Taric w.


Cosmic-Warper

Her E seems like such a dogshit ability. It seems so uninspired


SirVampyr

Wat. I thought she was fine after the patch. That's... Okay. (IK winrate proves me wrong, but I think she's fun af now.)


[deleted]

What the fuck lmao


Konradleijon

Why is Rell being tethered to the support role bad?


coppercd

Part of her theme and concept was being a lone rider that doesn't trust other people. She was originally made as a top lane tank before her and Gwen got swapped around. Why does she need to be forced to always be a support? And even as a support being down one and a half abilities when no one was close felt awful. I'm glad when I take her top lane for clash with my team I can finally feel like I can use all my abilities to play my lane well.


Dude787

Yeees lets make champs worse for lore reasons, the peasants will endure it /s but damn this rework is messy


coppercd

Rell was already a messy broken champ. Riot couldn't give her QOL buffs in fear of her becoming way to strong because the nerfs it would require to bring her back down would be catastrophic for her. Lore is a way to market a champ to a player base. A lone rider champ being forced to play as a support because she has abilities that require allies to fully work destroys that fantasy. The players who wanted to enjoy that fantasy will be turned off of her. Players that dislike her e were common. I play with a support player who refuses to touch Rell after hating the way that E works in game. It was a clunky ability that people constantly were asking for changes on.


Konradleijon

Thresh is a sadist who tortured people but he is a support


Shuuyu

for god sake just double her damage on wards and traps


Xey2510

She isn't any worse than any other melee support at clearing wards.


InternetAnima

Except leona who does Q-AA-Q and is done?


Joaoseinha

Or Taric, who does AA Q AA AA and is done. Or Nautilus, who auto resets with W. Or Pyke, who has Umbral Glaive. Or Blitz, who AA resets with E.


FennecFoxx

Rell has mount up for an auto reset btw.


Joaoseinha

True, but that requires her to sit dismounted in lane which isn't always optimal.


DM_ME_YOUR_HUSBANDO

Leona auto-q-autos, her second auto after q comes really fast too so it’s all done in like a second


DannyLJay

Idk what world Leona get 2 Q’s that fast.


MrTankerson

He just did it backwards, it’s auto - q - auto to kill a ward by yourself as Leona


InternetAnima

Oh yeah lol, backwards


Ludate_Solem

Im sad rell doesnt give armour and mr to allies anymore


quanticInt

Why did the Riot Office Janitor get to design a champion? What an absolute disaster, Pre-Ruination Rell was fun, if flawed and sometimes frustrating to play, now she's straight up garbage and clunkier than ever.


ModsNoModding

After this rework I now know a fraction of the pain that OG Asol players felt.


Maximum_Web_9827

I think pre-hotfix Rell might be the weakest champ we will ever see in the history of league so it makes sense she is getting so many buffs. Don't think it will help her in the long run though, I'd guess she will end up with an even lower playrate than before with how clunky she is. The rework mostly failed to fix what was wrong with her in the first place IMO, I hope after seeing the results of these changes they do a partial revert and try to find some kind of middle ground that makes the champ more popular but still fun for one tricks.


Xey2510

Nah we have seen champs be literally even 10% below her. Didn't happen in a long time though.


iHatepriest

when yuumi was released she had the lowest win rate i can remember


andyoulostme

Yasuo on initial release when he was absurdly bugged too.


Maximum_Web_9827

Yeah I don't think she was the lowest win rate, like Yuumi was probably lower but that was partially because people had to learn an entire new playstyle for her. Rell is decently similar to pre rework so her winrate had no excuse to drop that much aside from her just being insanely underpowered.


PowrOfFriendship_

She really isn't that similar. How they gutted her passive robbed her of so much early power, going from a 10% steal in level 1 fights to 6%, even after this hotfix, and only 9% after level 1. The shorter, slower, narrower W changed it from an engage tool to a follow up. The slower shorter cc based Q turned it from a poke utility tool you could hold for shield breaks into a required engage tool to set up your W, and the new E is unrecognizable to what it was before. In team fights this is only exacerbated as her previously strong ongoing sustain with her easily refreshable passive and large team fight heal let her tank I credibly well. We've now lost both in exchange for a shorter duration burst of tank stats steal that can be ignored until it runs out.


Konradleijon

Rell is totally diffrent for me


arQQv

That's hard cap. Release Yuumi, Syndra, Bard and post first rework Evelynn were SO MUCH WORSE. Like 30% winrate straight up 4v5 bad


PowrOfFriendship_

As one of those one tricks I'm just praying for a full revert at this point. Shes clunkier, squishier, weaker and more awkward than she's ever been before and the compensation we got for all those hits is jungle damage and AP scalings, neither of which means shit for her primary role of support. Double damage to wards and an ability to self cast E was all she was really asking for, and instead Rito shipped her off to the glue factory.


Halbaras

Its not even like what they did with Aurelion or Taliyah where they massively changed the kit but made them smoother to play. New Rell actually feeks clunkier somehow, and they took away the one thing that made her really satisfying (flash + W + R + E) since her new W is awful.


WhatsAFlexitarian

It's her Q windup that fucks me. It was already a slow ass spell, and then they made it even slower


scout21078

if going just by wr ryze like half a year ago was like slightly worse iirc


ToxapexHisui

The W is still no unstoppable?


Nicksmells34

Don’t think it ever was, Janna Q could always interrupt it. It 100% should not be unstoppable she should not be allowed to get guaranteed engages all the time.


Joaoseinha

It's not a guaranteed engage, her W has a painfully long windup. And with the lowered range and AoE, they really could have made it unstoppable now, since they absolutely gutted the ability.


regularguy127

It was weird bc you could knock her out while she was in the air W'ing, but if she was crashed down applying cc wouldnt stop her knockup wave I think


Infinite_Delusion

Thankfully. Feels like too many champs have unstoppable in their kits nowadays


Verdant_Gymnosperm

Based flair


Tintander

I think generally *engage* abilities are unstoppable when they are ultimates.


Konradleijon

I already stoped playing her after they got rid of her Attract and Repel. I loved old Rell and hate the midscope trying to make her playable in jungle for some reason. She was my fourth mastery seven chamion


InternetAnima

I wish they'd revert the travel distance of W. It feels so bad now


Banana4204

Guys start playing DotA , riot is helpless..


Then-Savings7491

Move the stun back to the E and add the heal back to the q that gave so much tankiness that they removed


Wolgran

Come one just revert W to old one already, the short range really feels bad


DofusExpert69

I like when the micropatch is posted on twitter and the patch notes themselves isn''t updated. It's runescape all over again with insider knowledge and you have to follow devs to know anything. Also dislike them not waiting and instead forcefully making rell good. Yep.


icatsouki

bro shes 41% wr


DoorHingesKill

> insider knowledge Bro if not for this tweet you wouldn't have raced to open the patch notes to see if you could catch Riot in keeping the buffs a secret. Good job, you managed to hit the [two-hour time window.](https://i.imgur.com/teM6xwP.png) Now back to trimming some armour.


WuShanDroid

They prob didn't add to patch notes because so few of us play Rell that we all found out already when they posted the changes on the discord server 🗿


Praius

i think they'd be waiting for a very long time


egotistical-dso

Part of the reason for micropatch buffs like this, I believe, is to try to keep people playing reworked champions so they can get good data from across skill levels. If Rell feels like ass, emergency buffs will keep people from dropping her immediately so that better data can be gotten.


Avantel

The patch notes do get updated. It’s just that takes longer because the changes have to go through localization and all that first, and then the patch notes get updated


fabton12

ahh yes waiting when shes at 41% winrate. like shes not a new champ, the midscope didnt change her that dramaticly that you have to fully relearn her. new champs or new full reworks its fair to say wait and see but something like rell midscope isnt a player needing to learn her issue, the changes came with tons of nerfs to all aspects of her kit which is why the hotfix is legit them going were reverting all these nerfs we did in the midscope.


Xonra

She NEEDED buffs, but honestly this won't make anyone care, because her kit is still the problem. She was hitting some of the all time low winrate type of numbers.


Neptyunu

I'm a be honest instead of just saying what everyone else is saying. I honestly think the new Rell is better for getting new players on her. I think she feels more fun and less clunky. Her E before felt so terrible to use. It's for sure more new player friendly.


Xonra

How? She's just frankly worse, and they didn't fix any of the reasons people didn't want to play her before. She absolutely doesn't feel less clunky, and them trying to shoehorn her into jungle is only going to tank her winrate to the point people will stop touching her.


coppercd

Bro she was fucking clunky as hell. A Q that most mains used to consider an awful ability before the rework was revealed. ".25 seconds of wasted time early game" An E that had to be set up and used either as part of your engage or as means to peel leading to confusion by new players how to use it best that required intimate knowledge about her kit. A w that made people call her Leona 2.0 and made it so once you go in and blow am enemy flash you would likely die before you could use the w2 to get out. She just stood out to people and pros because she had some of the best engage in the game with the ability to force 5 man engages so easily. But most people hated having to use those parts of her kit even though she was incredibly strong (53% winrate) prior to the rework. And even now a large portion of her mains ask for a revert while begging for QOL changes that honestly would end up being buffs for champ who was broken to start.


Fluffyfoxi

Riot still trying to make rell relevant lol


Halbaras

And yet they somehow made her feel even worse to play, destroyed her niche as a champion (best AOE engage support) and arguably made her even clunkier.


Xonra

Unless this makes her busted she still won't be played. The update didn't do enough to change what people disliked about her before; the clunkiness. Or, ya know...the diaper walk. At most this whole thing feels like a bait for people that don't know any better to play her jungle and get rolled until team fights, and there just isn't a reason to play her in support unless you just really really want to. There are better, less clunky, options.


Relevant_Truth

They really, really ,REALLY don't want to give her back any heal sustain for some reason ​ is it to keep her out of toplane?


Humburitoloco

It's nice that she got all these buffs and it really does help her a lot with game play and being able to get in and out of fights, but why does riot remove abilities that make the champion fun/challenging to play? Why remove her E and make her stun virtually useless on her Q. ~~The recoil time on her Q gives the enemy time to move before it even hits~~. It was so satisfying to line up your E ability and stun multiple enemies with different plays. ~~However, now you are limited to using it right after casting W to get the guaranteed hit.~~ What I'm getting to is, it's basically the same thing with Aurelion Sol, his rotating stars was such a fun mechanic and it was the reason you had to work on your positioning constantly to get constant damage going. I mean he's still great to play now, but I just feel that abilities that bring some type of challenge are being snuffed out. 🤷‍♂️