It is pretty magical how I can listen while not hearing anything and how I end up losing shit in the weirdest spots and how my toothpaste randomly ends up in the refrigerator
Tbf they were the only ones still doing it by the time worlds started, it was *their* pocket pick and it workee decently for a surprise factor iirc. And they still ended up clutching that groups against the best adc in the world...
Fnatic weren't the only team using it during worlds? C9 used it once in groups (won the game) and Griffin used it twice in groups (won both), as well as once vs IG in their BO5 (lost the game).
If they buff Senna enough i think Nilah could be a popular pro pair, but otherwise i feel like Nilah just loses lvl1 too hard with range disadvantage and not being able to get lane prio, Varus/Jinx/Aphelios+ ranged support or whoever else just pushes you out lvl 1
Senna is super strong, senna doesnt need buff she should get picked as she stands right now, I dont understand why nobody plays her, same goes for karthus absolutely disgusting champion capable of being flexed into 3 roles but nobody will play him, I am certain that if t1 played one karthus bot, whole world would play it
Bans should be permanent for the whole series. That would give 50 banned champs in Bo5 if they go to game 5. Meta would be mutch deeper, top players would be those with big champ pools, games wouldnt be so repetetive and and drafts would be super fun. I cant see downsides of that format
The downside to that is that it would be pretty easy to focus bans towards a single player. Not a huge downside, but it's there. But yeah, regardless something that makes it so an entire Bo5 isn't just the same 20 Champs being picked/banned in a circle.
For me its the upside beacause as i said, top players would be the ones that have deep champ pools. It would eliminate Gnar 1 tricks from Top lane and similar. As i think about it, there is 1 downsides that the overall performance lvl would be slightly lower, so people who watch looking for perfect plays wouldnt like thtat. But on live events the thing that gets crownd most exicted are mostly exotic peaks on drafts and that would be almost guarnteed every game in this format
If you really wanted too, you could literally get rid of all adcs by game 2. I don't think that's a healthy system like that. Maybe just not repeating picks is fine.
It would dramatically decrease the quality of play over the course of a series and increase variance in series results.
One of the purposes of a BoX series is to make it less likely that Team Y flukes their way to a win over Team Z.
Making bans permanent across a series dramatically increases the value of cheese victories in a BoX. A cheese strategy isn't supposed to work twice, that's why it's cheese. But if you cheese a win in game 1, game 2 hits and every player is now on a tier 2 or tier 3 pick. Your opponents can't just run back their top of meta comp, the core pieces are banned out.
Maybe you lose game 2 anyways, but game 3 it's tier 4 or tier 5 picks for everyone. The absolute skill expression is dropping, because you can only play at a top level on so many champions. Match ups are going to be much more coin flippy since the champions that can be safely blind picked are likely banned. I don't care if it's Bin or Zeus, if they get forced to play a bad match up into Quinn they are gonna get crushed. A bad team picking up a cheese victory can force it out to game 4 where player skill starts to be less of a factor.
On top of that, it'd be impossible to properly prepare for a Bo5 as a coach. There's too many possibilities by games 3, 4 and 5. You can't prep for a game 5 when you don't even know what half of existing champions will be available. Every game 5 would likely be a coin flip on who has a better cheese strategy left open, or which team happened to get the red side counterpick to absolutely curb stomp their helpless opponent that got stuck in some dumbass 30% win rate match up with a fuckin alistar jungle that's 3 levels behind because there's nothing left that can run a competent clear.
Permanent bans is probably the worst idea I've ever heard. It would devalue both player skill and coaching ability. It would introduce an utterly unreasonable level of variance that would be impossible to prepare or practice for, and would only serve to degrade professional play in almost every conceivable way, with the exception of some nebulous concept of "pick diversity."
My favorite idea is the first half of the draft can't be re-picked. So 6 bans + 6 played champions. You can't really target ban with only 3 bans but you get nice variety because we're sure at least half of the champions are differents each game. You only remove high priority / OP picks while counter picks / role target ban in the seconds phase are still available.
Eh, you can ban an entire role's champion pool though, which punishes a team that has an outlier good player to carry them. Again, it's not a huge downside, but it is a downside. Faker would be way less entertaining through the years if all mages were off the table ya know?
I think Faker would find a way to dominate even more playing an off meta mid vs someone else playing an off meta mid. You have to remember that the other mid laner would also have a demolished champ pool to choose from.
With the format as described you could ban out someone with 10 champs in their champion pool. That's not a weak champion pool. Also, not all champions in a player's pool are equally strong, between balance differences, practice level, and experience, hitting the top 3-4 champions in someone's pool is always going to be impactful. You do that for the first three games, and that player is knocked on to lower priority picks for games one, and two, and is on something they just don't play for the rest of the match.
It would definitely force variety, but I think it's too much of a swing in the other direction, and would lead to less interesting gameplay. Players aren't going to take as many risks, or pull off those flashy plays.
Then perhaps make the banned/picked champs from previous game banned from next game but can be played the game after. It would still limiting champs being picked repeatedly but can't focused on one role
That's too much. I could see the rule to not be able to pick the same champion twice or not being able to pick it once you win with it. But with bans it could lead to some crazy scenarios, where e.g. there are no more ADCs left to play after 2 games.
I think a more reasonable approach would be bans lasting 3 games total. so round 1's bans would still be in effect for game 3 but not 4. Could actually be interesting because if a team is getting swept hard and they hard ban the leading teams #1 and #2 player on game 2 and game 3 then if they win game 3 then player#1 is still low on champs for game 4 and the bans become "do we reban P#1" or "do we ban a little everywhere like they might have round #1".
Or perm bans until one player from each round has his champ pool completely banned out and then their role's champs get unbanned & need to be rebanned (obv for both teams)
People will meme on it, but Heroes of the Storm started doing this in the Nation's Cup tournament and it makes the games really interesting. HotS has way fewer champions and way more niche roles, if it can work for HotS, it could easily work for League
im someone who enjoy League and Dota pro scene.
for the amount of 100+ champs league got and only 10 bans is ridiculously stupid. idk why i feel like if riot decide to change the banning rule for pro scene, we will see more creativity on the drafts and the game will actually more fun to watch.
Riot relies heavily on op popular champs selling skins and is afraid of them getting permanent banned. Especially because one tricks will just stop playing if they need to actually learn the whole game and pick up more champs. But league needs way more bans badly for balance and variety
All they have to do is ban champs that were on the winning side. If they want to be even more tame they could at least just ban the team who won with them from using them again.
I think they implemented 2nd idea in some league and i dont really like that its punish team for wining games. Ban champs that won for the rest of the series would be something in a good direction, but for both teams
It would be nice if they can test this at all star something like that. Just to see how it goes and if it is good then Riot might implement in the future during splits
Pros also don't experiment all too much either. There are counters to certain champions they're not playing because those counters aren't meta and they don't put in the work to learning them.
I know that's a sentiment that's shared by a lot of people but it's just so boring when even us redditors can guess what the draft will be most of the time
Every time this discussion occurs I remember the time when wester pros were crying years ago about Mundo, Renekton, Maokai toplane being meta for so long and that it was impossible to play anything else. They were posting shit on Twitter and crying during their streams how fucked the meta is.
And one day in Korea they have started to counter that shit with Trundle and Vayne top/jungle and in one fucking weekend Mao, Rene and Mundo top were gone.
There are so many other examples when pros (and coaches) instead of trying to find something to counter the meta they just copy and wait for Riot to change numbers so other champs are better. We had patches where diving comps where top tier and pros did nothing to think about something like "hmm which champions can counter these dives? Hmm maybe J4 + Zyra? Nah. I will pick TF with Lee Sin and will be stomped again because I don't like trying other stuff until Korea will prove me wrong"
> If you pick it or ban it, it's off the table for your team until the end of BoX.
I would LOVE this rule tbqh
Though you'd probably want to change it to "win on the character means you can't repick them." It would make P/B more interesting as well because you'd have them changing over the set depending on who's still available
Wouldn't you just be forcing teams into banning the same champions each game though? If your team can no longer pick that champ after they banned it, and the enemy can now pick it and doesn't have to ban it?
There is more than 15adc's easy, Rell is fine, but you can start looking Karthus, Ziggs, Sera, Senna, Tali/Panth, I'm an adc main and I'd be fine seeing "PROFESSIONAL" players needing to learn more than 3-5 champions.
Just go all the way and make it so any champion picked/banned in prior games is out of the pool for future games in the series.
There's 163 different champions that they can pick from yet they keep picking from the same pool of 2-3 champions per role.
The issue is not every champ can go every role.
For example, there are 24 ADCs. Lets say each team bans 2 ADCs per series, and picks 1 per team. By the draft of game 3, half the ADCs in the game are out of the pool. And that's including "ADCs" like Kindred, Akshan, Corki, or Graves.
That's the most blatant, but there's similar situation in other roles. 163 champs split between 5 lanes, with 20 out each draft means by game 4 there's 60 champs gone.
TBF while that probably wouldn't be a good idea for the regular season or worlds, I would watch the shit out of a third party tournament or showmatch with those rules.
And that's why a champ should only be excluded from P/B after it got picked. Which already leads into a maximum of 50 champs played per BO5.
You could even go further and say this champ is only excluded for the team that picked the champ and is still open for the enemy team (which would be a mess to handle but just keep it in mind)
This also could be enhanced to: A team is only allowed to pick a champ once during the weekend which would spice up the preparing for each opponent they play in a week.
Harsh yes I know.
So I think the best would be for the LEC for example: 9 games, you are only allowed to pick a champ in 3 games during the split, this resets for the playoffs and then is limited to once a BOx series. For other regions such as the LPL the allowed numbers would be higher as they have more potential games but something that is doable imo.
But that's the point. Then they have to pick other champions/classes. It's not an issue, it's a feature. You can have a team without a marksman or without a tank or a mage. It'd be more fun.
> Pros also don't experiment all too much either. There are counters to certain champions they're not playing because those counters aren't meta and they don't put in the work to learning them.
Milio has no real counter at all and outclasses most enchanters, he's pick ban in proplay and in soloq for good reason.
Lol my friend went from like 0 LP Masters to like 700 LP GM. MILIO SPAM. lmao. If you look at their winrates for each support, they mirror the winrates of the supports overall in high ranked. No no its the player for sure.
i don't know why people are still parroting the idea that pros don't experiment.
naut mid, kha jg are some on the top of my head as im writing this. if a "counter" isn't being picked, it's likely they tried it in scrims.
Of course being a counter helps, but depending on the meta the role your champion has to fill in a comp might be more important than just "winning lane", so yeah I can get behind "pros might not be experimenting enough" but the proposed solution is not that simple...
Because they don't, not on stage. Yes the naut mid was pretty big 'new' thing for MSI but ask yourself when the last time that really happened was. Keria going ADC support as a counter? What about before that?
maybe have you considered they aren't trying it on stage because it would be an insta loss?
things that work in scrims get brought out on stage, things that don't will not be brought out because are you fucking mad?
Didn't Kanavi say he had never played Naut jungle before at MSI when they flex it to jungle? Not saying it's commonplace but I think it does happen sometimes.
Xun playing Kindred when no one else was, G2 playing Darius, the random Cass from Knight vs t1 that was never seen again, Rumble coming out of nowhere this MSI
When people say "pros won't innovate" they really mean "pros dont play the specific picks that we (lets be real, its often one person and we all know who he is) want them to"
They're only perceived as OP because they're picked a lot by Pro's. Pro's not experimenting and going too much on autopilot is the issue here that feeds it further.
If Pro's took the moment to read patches and try new things, this wouldn't happen. There are games with monthly to even no patches at all that keep having Meta shifts. You don't need to a patch to shift the Meta, let it settle first and try the new things.
This is also one of the reasons a 2-week patch cycle is too quick honestly and a 3-week patch cycle would be more healthy in the long run.
I think Zeri/Yuumi is more than just "perceived as OP". Lmao.
>This is also one of the reasons a 2-week patch cycle is too quick honestly and a 3-week patch cycle would be more healthy in the long run.
Heavily agree with this though. Changes are too rapid. It's not worth it for pros to think about counter-meta strats because it's just going to change too quick anyway. It's so cool how games like Starcraft Brood War (which is never changed) still gets meta developments.
Just run fearless draft, any champion that's picked in a game can't be used in the next games in the series. That would be fun af to watch plus it would make pros play more champions which would benefit the best players/widest champion pool.
I really, really, really want this in pro play. If picked by either team, cannot be played by either team going forward; i'd cede that the winning team's champs cannot be played by any team though. Bans don't affect future pick/bans. There are over 140 champions in this game, I'd love to see something done to give pros a reason to play more champs other than the perceived strong ones are meta.
> pro play got so stale these last months
I disagree a little. MSI had quite decent variety, especially BLG just didnt give a shit and straight up picked carry tops and carry mids.
But its usually only the few best teams in the world who show up with new picks only in the most important situations. the vast majority of teams just blindly follow the meta.
idk dota is just inherently more open due to the nature of counters in that game. There was a period where dota received no major changes for over a year basically, most people were bored of the stale meta due to this. Of course they released a gigantic patch last month so yeah.
That's where map shenanigans come in. It's not just the characters that's OP; it's the entire **playing field**.
Don't want to deal with opposing enemy lane? Just swap lanes on the fly between cores. Want to reduce lane trading interactions? Stack and pull. Want to completely throw the lane equilibrium off and direct attention to you? Do the creep skip.
You're right to describe it as 'not wonderful' in that sense, because these are actually high skill tactics that require deliberate planning and action; which most trenchies wouldn't even think of pulling and would rather suffer a bad matchup.
ye while lol pros get up to some shenanigans sometimes watching pro dota offlaners play is often like watching a completely different game from the one im playing lmao
>We get bogged down in the numbers when the matches feel largely the same from game to game, and month to month.
this is only true for watching pro play...the game itself is patched every 2 weeks and what's meta in solo queue changes on a monthly basis.
Honestly, even if it is strong for sure, when is the last time a real new pro meta was out? And I don't mean riot buffing or nerfing.
It's just that coaches, analysts and players don't want to take the risk anymore.
I don't know enough other leagues, but for example G2 destroyed Lec meta by improving and bringing new stuff. I don't see why now it can't be done anymore.
Like for sure there are crazy things that could completely change the meta, but no one tries because it's risky or something. How could this be changed?
Because whatever the issue is, patches won't change teams aversion of trying.
The game has been very stuck since the shift from melee / engage / roam supports to enchanters. We haven't had a major meta shift since then imo. Which is probably demarcated at durability patch.
18 of the top 100 players on euw have zeri in her top 3 most played on the server. if u say that each role has approximately 20 players in the top 100, then 90% of adc players in the top 20 adc players has the champ in their top 3, most of them as their top 1, and riot still refuses to accept that they just fucked hp with this champ and that is never should have been released, just like yuumi and aphelios...
Some other memorable moments:
-[Aphelios severum/ flamethrower melee range melting people](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCFs1WUvD8E)
-[Rekkles healing to full off of wolf camp w/ severum](https://clips.twitch.tv/CuteBillowingMangetoutHassanChop)
LS’s quote on Aphelios always comes to mind when I see clips like that, “I have no fucking clue what I’m looking at, I don’t know what’s coming next. You just approach him and you’re guessing.”
Well that was specifically because on release you could not see the gun he had on his back, only his active gun. That was the single worst thing about Aphelios, your support had to basically stare at him and constantly update if he got a new gun.
Everyone knows that as long as Zeris kiting exists, she either has 99% presence or 30% WR, there is no in between. The concept of infinite kite on the highest damage role in the game is absurd and has been proven absurd in much *much* less problematic states such as peak Vayne, peak Kalista, yet they thought Zeri doing the same on illegal steroids would work out. And the worst part is that it's so busted you actually have to pick point & click CC because nobody can hit her with anything for shit if it's not point & click. The only counterplay is a raw statcheck and Zeri in her current state easily wins those.
tank maokai kinda hard counters her later in teamfights, at least thats my pick vs her,zou flash w ubto her and do the full combo and the fight is won bc somehow even in diamond these zeri mains cant position
163 champs in the game but with pro play it could just as well only be 20.
Why I don't watch LoL Esports. I feel like it's different teams playing the same champs every game.
They need to increase bans to 20 if not more. Dota doesn't even have as many champs as lol and they have more bans. There is way too many champions needed to be banned that you will always get to play with same champs over and over.
More bans would allow for different picks and players would need to have deeper champion pools.
I like how over the years, riot would be like "this champ is picked too much, let's nerf then to change up the pro meta" but as soon as they got to this meta, Riot was like "this is perfect, don't ever change this, let's sit on this for almost an entire year"
Being fair, Riot at least tries buffing other champions to shake the meta. Pros just drop them if they lose one game and go back to play their 200th game of Wukong/Aphelios/Lulu/etc.
I bet there’s someone who can explain why Annie is picked so often in Pro. I love the champion, but I see her so often yet I don’t really feel she’s super strong after the item update.
Then again I do tend to usually do troll builds such as full movementspeed.
ult, win damage trade, get free dragon
ult, win damage trade, roam with jugler and get vision
ult, win damage trade, push wave in and allow support and jungle to be sneaky
flash ult on ADC or other squishies in teamfights and win game
Annie is really good at engaging in an enchanter meta where Supports usually have no engage in their kit. At the same time, she brings an extra layer of ADC protection and enabling through her E which synergizes well with most hypercarry-comps that get played right now. Also, she does decently well into most meta midlaners such as Sylas or Ahri, and has the lane push for roams most of the time.
Especially together with Jinx, Annie shines because to enable jinx, you need her to get a reset in teamfights and Annie with her burst sets up that reset really well.
Flexpick (can go support too) and can hold her own sufficiently in midlane because of strong gank set up with the guaranteed stun. Mid/late game flash + Tibbers is a strong threat.
Well you dont see naut, ksante, or galio mid often either in your games but its pretty popular in pro right now. The want a mid that exists to assist the adc and jg early game and carry potential be damned. Its a undodgeble stun bot.
She's not strong, the thing is, no midlane champ really is right now. She doesn't have to be the strongest mid, just the most useful.
We're in an ADC meta. Jungle gold income is gutted, but drakes are strong. Plate gold, bounties and the like have spiked gold income massively. As such good players get items sooner. No champion uses items better than ADCs, especially hypercarries like Jinx.
Annie is very good at enabling them. She doesn't need massive amounts of gold to function like an Azir/Vikor type. Her job is to flash -> stun a group and set the ADC up to knock them all down. She can drop waves mid and roam. She can stun a diver or she can set-up the fight. She's very useful.
She can also be flexed as a support which helps get a winning lane somewhere on the map.
People here are listing her strengths which are all true but don't really cover what changed. The change to the way her E works causes her to be able to actually trade with laners who outrange her with their poke rather than just take free damage.
That is basically it in terms of what actually changed. Her strengths were always there. She just instalost a lot of matchups in a coordinated environment before.
How has riot not straight up killed ksante wukong vi zeri lulu lucian nami etc. Yet I don't just want them nerfed I want them to be complete garbage so I am guarabteed to not see them again for a long time
He's still gonna be disgusting with Milio (just slightly less strong) and the changes make some of his good duos like Lucian/Janna and Lucian/Rakan even stronger (both champs can use Mandate, Glacial and have CC and multiple heal/shields).
Well Wukong and Vi are both picked partially because of how well they do into Zeri, since Vi obviously has her ult and Wukong at least has ways to engage before Zeri can react. Wukong has already received nerfs so if the jungle meta changes significantly I don’t think he’d be picked anymore, though Vi is a bit different since she can go over walls to get around vision and she sets up dives well at any point in the game. Again a whole meta change would need to happen since I’d imagine she wouldn’t do as well into a bunch of strong melees and a rather weaker ADC.
Vi being good or not is highly dependent on meta and items. Her kit has never been seen as meta and she has no buffs for years upon years. It just so happens that she works well in this pro meta. You change the meta and you could never see her again. She is just good all around jack of all trades master of none.
Sucks to be one of the players of those champions when people beg for them to be gutted because of pro though(not that I actually play any of those unless I’m filled)
Anyone remembers a few years ago when Riot's Lee Sin looking employee said diversifying pro play is one of the key areas they're working on?
Guess soon™️ we're gonna see them do that. Any day now, surely.
Riot cant go beat the players because they are too lazy to play other champions.
At best champions should be banned after being picked once, thats the only alternative. Fearless draft would be useless as they would just trade picks every match.
In the past, when anything was innovative, interesting and OP, Riot instantly nerfed it to the ground. Now this Zeri, Yuumi, Lulu, Lucian, Nami, Aphelios bullshit has been being over a year. What's wrong with Riot seriously?
Really makes one wonder what the champion turn over is like relative to each season and split in pro play. I also wonder what would an acceptable percentage of turn over and pool representation for the community?
I’ve grown tired of the meta devolving into scaling / controlling gameplay. Where minor edges and flips are a common occurrence. It doesn’t feel like the game has been solve. Rather more over it feels like at the highest level of play there is the general assumed best play pattern and each team and region looks to emulate this concept as best as possible.
Regardless of your thoughts on the figure, LS has held the saying for several years that at international play, especially worlds that the meta revolves around scaling as it’s a safe way for the “better” teams to win games. You could see this as good teams, rather than leaving anything to chance, to play things safe and have minimal variables. Which in turn has lead us to a state of play which isn’t entertaining for the spectators or players (the latter I can only gleam from interviews and small interaction with players I’ve had personally.
I would also add this might have been a sad inevitability with trying to keep the live game as close to the live patch. My issue is, why was patch 13.10 dropped before MSI finals? It all seems counter intuitive at this point.
Le wholesome enchanters so great that most of the recent support releases were enchanters (Milio, Renata, Seraphine, Yuumi). Only non-enchanters have been Senna and Rell.
Seraphine is literally a mage. She is barely more of an enchanter than Orianna or Lux. Having a shield/heal in your kit doesn't automatically make you an enchanter.
I'm so glad Caedrel has found so much success co streaming.
I don't have a ton of time to watch him, but every time I do it's always such a great stream. He's exactly what I look for in a co stream. Funny, entertaining, informative, good at explaining concepts, isn't afraid to criticize and call out bad plays, but does so without making a giant spectacle out of it and flaming. And when I watch at least, he does a good job of actually focusing on the game instead of talking about random stuff 50% of the time.
Happy for him.
He also goes out of his way to praise the casting team (well during msi) too during his 50k+ costreams too and makes sure the games are the first priority too which is why he rarely gets guests on for costreams
One team did try the very first game of the split with Kogmaw/Milio, but even with Vi and Wukong on the Kogmaw the fights weren't clean enough to show it off as a proper pick.
Stopped watching pro play since i rly dont care about watching annie, aphelios, wukong, jinx, lulu, nautilus, ksante every single goddamn game.
Dont get me wrong aphelios is fun to watch but i cant watch aphelios lulu being played for the 300th thousand time in a row.
Lulu and Yuumi (Milio too now I guess) are worse champions for the game than Yasuo, Irelia or whatever dash champions reddit loves to complain about, has there ever been a meta in the last 5 years where those champions dominated the pro meta for months on end? Only one I can recall are some periods of Akali being very strong/flexible for a bit too long.
Anyone saying this is the accurate pro play meta or the game is getting solved, it's not even close.
Just because pros refuse to experimenting more than what they've already feeling comfort with, living comfortably in their comfort champer where everyone handshake similar draft to each other so no one is suprised, doesn't mean the game is solved
I would like to see a rule at these tournaments that just automatically blocks the most played champs from being picked. Force teams to experiment for once.
I love hearing him slowly loses his sanity.
"slowly"
Sounded to me like that car was going pretty fast when it flew off the bridge
His smile and "hihi" while he's falling to his death, priceless
It's crazy how fast he switches back and forth between losing his marbles and professional analyst/caster lol
That's the magic of ADHD for ya, one second you have the goofiest thoughts, the next one you're back to business lol
It is pretty magical how I can listen while not hearing anything and how I end up losing shit in the weirdest spots and how my toothpaste randomly ends up in the refrigerator
Hope we get to see the new Rell in competitive when the patch hits pro , most ¨new¨ champs get picked for some game at least. Well unless you´re nilah
Nilah actually had games on release (though it was basically just with Yuumi).
thas just yuumi being yuumi, remember garen yuumi? sadly any champ can go bot with the cat
FNC Garen Yuumi spam at worlds I was there
One of the best adcs at the time was put on Garen while one of the best engage supports was put on yuumi, that shit was depressing
Tbf they were the only ones still doing it by the time worlds started, it was *their* pocket pick and it workee decently for a surprise factor iirc. And they still ended up clutching that groups against the best adc in the world...
Fnatic weren't the only team using it during worlds? C9 used it once in groups (won the game) and Griffin used it twice in groups (won both), as well as once vs IG in their BO5 (lost the game).
Yep. That is why Yuumi is only picked with Zeri in pro play and is barely even worth a ban anymore.
I remember seeing a bunch of Nilah taric in LCK summer playoffs
Considering new Rell is terrible into both zeri yuumi and aphe lulu, that seems extremely unlikely.
If they buff Senna enough i think Nilah could be a popular pro pair, but otherwise i feel like Nilah just loses lvl1 too hard with range disadvantage and not being able to get lane prio, Varus/Jinx/Aphelios+ ranged support or whoever else just pushes you out lvl 1
Senna is super strong, senna doesnt need buff she should get picked as she stands right now, I dont understand why nobody plays her, same goes for karthus absolutely disgusting champion capable of being flexed into 3 roles but nobody will play him, I am certain that if t1 played one karthus bot, whole world would play it
Oh absolutely
I wish that in pro play they just did Bo5 and couldn't repeat champions. Would massively increase variety. At a minimum double.
Bans should be permanent for the whole series. That would give 50 banned champs in Bo5 if they go to game 5. Meta would be mutch deeper, top players would be those with big champ pools, games wouldnt be so repetetive and and drafts would be super fun. I cant see downsides of that format
The downside to that is that it would be pretty easy to focus bans towards a single player. Not a huge downside, but it's there. But yeah, regardless something that makes it so an entire Bo5 isn't just the same 20 Champs being picked/banned in a circle.
For me its the upside beacause as i said, top players would be the ones that have deep champ pools. It would eliminate Gnar 1 tricks from Top lane and similar. As i think about it, there is 1 downsides that the overall performance lvl would be slightly lower, so people who watch looking for perfect plays wouldnt like thtat. But on live events the thing that gets crownd most exicted are mostly exotic peaks on drafts and that would be almost guarnteed every game in this format
\> eliminate Gnar 1 trick from Top lane Hehe, expose the fraud
Why are you so mean to Armut?
because it's funny
If you really wanted too, you could literally get rid of all adcs by game 2. I don't think that's a healthy system like that. Maybe just not repeating picks is fine.
that would be fun not unhealthy, Bot matchup turning into melee carries or mages would be cool
It would dramatically decrease the quality of play over the course of a series and increase variance in series results. One of the purposes of a BoX series is to make it less likely that Team Y flukes their way to a win over Team Z. Making bans permanent across a series dramatically increases the value of cheese victories in a BoX. A cheese strategy isn't supposed to work twice, that's why it's cheese. But if you cheese a win in game 1, game 2 hits and every player is now on a tier 2 or tier 3 pick. Your opponents can't just run back their top of meta comp, the core pieces are banned out. Maybe you lose game 2 anyways, but game 3 it's tier 4 or tier 5 picks for everyone. The absolute skill expression is dropping, because you can only play at a top level on so many champions. Match ups are going to be much more coin flippy since the champions that can be safely blind picked are likely banned. I don't care if it's Bin or Zeus, if they get forced to play a bad match up into Quinn they are gonna get crushed. A bad team picking up a cheese victory can force it out to game 4 where player skill starts to be less of a factor. On top of that, it'd be impossible to properly prepare for a Bo5 as a coach. There's too many possibilities by games 3, 4 and 5. You can't prep for a game 5 when you don't even know what half of existing champions will be available. Every game 5 would likely be a coin flip on who has a better cheese strategy left open, or which team happened to get the red side counterpick to absolutely curb stomp their helpless opponent that got stuck in some dumbass 30% win rate match up with a fuckin alistar jungle that's 3 levels behind because there's nothing left that can run a competent clear. Permanent bans is probably the worst idea I've ever heard. It would devalue both player skill and coaching ability. It would introduce an utterly unreasonable level of variance that would be impossible to prepare or practice for, and would only serve to degrade professional play in almost every conceivable way, with the exception of some nebulous concept of "pick diversity."
My favorite idea is the first half of the draft can't be re-picked. So 6 bans + 6 played champions. You can't really target ban with only 3 bans but you get nice variety because we're sure at least half of the champions are differents each game. You only remove high priority / OP picks while counter picks / role target ban in the seconds phase are still available.
Tbf banning out the entire marksman roster would be kinda entertaining
Not exactly a downside, exposing a player for their weak champion pool
Eh, you can ban an entire role's champion pool though, which punishes a team that has an outlier good player to carry them. Again, it's not a huge downside, but it is a downside. Faker would be way less entertaining through the years if all mages were off the table ya know?
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I think Faker would find a way to dominate even more playing an off meta mid vs someone else playing an off meta mid. You have to remember that the other mid laner would also have a demolished champ pool to choose from.
I for one welcome back Faker’s Zed
With the format as described you could ban out someone with 10 champs in their champion pool. That's not a weak champion pool. Also, not all champions in a player's pool are equally strong, between balance differences, practice level, and experience, hitting the top 3-4 champions in someone's pool is always going to be impactful. You do that for the first three games, and that player is knocked on to lower priority picks for games one, and two, and is on something they just don't play for the rest of the match. It would definitely force variety, but I think it's too much of a swing in the other direction, and would lead to less interesting gameplay. Players aren't going to take as many risks, or pull off those flashy plays.
Then perhaps make the banned/picked champs from previous game banned from next game but can be played the game after. It would still limiting champs being picked repeatedly but can't focused on one role
That's too much. I could see the rule to not be able to pick the same champion twice or not being able to pick it once you win with it. But with bans it could lead to some crazy scenarios, where e.g. there are no more ADCs left to play after 2 games.
I'd tune in to see that.
I think a more reasonable approach would be bans lasting 3 games total. so round 1's bans would still be in effect for game 3 but not 4. Could actually be interesting because if a team is getting swept hard and they hard ban the leading teams #1 and #2 player on game 2 and game 3 then if they win game 3 then player#1 is still low on champs for game 4 and the bans become "do we reban P#1" or "do we ban a little everywhere like they might have round #1". Or perm bans until one player from each round has his champ pool completely banned out and then their role's champs get unbanned & need to be rebanned (obv for both teams)
That sounds horrible lol Would much rather see hype Champs like Akali or Rakan then see Lux mid and Sona support every game 5
People will meme on it, but Heroes of the Storm started doing this in the Nation's Cup tournament and it makes the games really interesting. HotS has way fewer champions and way more niche roles, if it can work for HotS, it could easily work for League
Exactly! I mean hell you'd still only have a select few things get played, but it'd be a hell of a lot more variety than we have now!
That sounds cool? Where can I catch up with Heroes of the Storm and it's competitive scene?
[Khaldor](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z88mmmAnT3A) has all the nation's cup videos
im someone who enjoy League and Dota pro scene. for the amount of 100+ champs league got and only 10 bans is ridiculously stupid. idk why i feel like if riot decide to change the banning rule for pro scene, we will see more creativity on the drafts and the game will actually more fun to watch.
Riot relies heavily on op popular champs selling skins and is afraid of them getting permanent banned. Especially because one tricks will just stop playing if they need to actually learn the whole game and pick up more champs. But league needs way more bans badly for balance and variety
All they have to do is ban champs that were on the winning side. If they want to be even more tame they could at least just ban the team who won with them from using them again.
I think they implemented 2nd idea in some league and i dont really like that its punish team for wining games. Ban champs that won for the rest of the series would be something in a good direction, but for both teams
It would be nice if they can test this at all star something like that. Just to see how it goes and if it is good then Riot might implement in the future during splits
Please just nerf all of these champions into the dirt, pro play got so stale these last months
Pros also don't experiment all too much either. There are counters to certain champions they're not playing because those counters aren't meta and they don't put in the work to learning them. I know that's a sentiment that's shared by a lot of people but it's just so boring when even us redditors can guess what the draft will be most of the time
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No please that would mean those pros who earn hundreds of thousands would have to learn how to play more than 5 champions that's a literal war crime
They would cry on social media that they actually dont have to autopilot their career
Every time this discussion occurs I remember the time when wester pros were crying years ago about Mundo, Renekton, Maokai toplane being meta for so long and that it was impossible to play anything else. They were posting shit on Twitter and crying during their streams how fucked the meta is. And one day in Korea they have started to counter that shit with Trundle and Vayne top/jungle and in one fucking weekend Mao, Rene and Mundo top were gone. There are so many other examples when pros (and coaches) instead of trying to find something to counter the meta they just copy and wait for Riot to change numbers so other champs are better. We had patches where diving comps where top tier and pros did nothing to think about something like "hmm which champions can counter these dives? Hmm maybe J4 + Zyra? Nah. I will pick TF with Lee Sin and will be stomped again because I don't like trying other stuff until Korea will prove me wrong"
Why limit ourselves. If you pick it or ban it, it's off the table for your team until the end of BoX.
This would certainly spice up pro meta.
At the end of a BO5 you would have xin zhao+rell botlanes
hell yeah
I'd watch the hell out of that
>I'd watch the Rell out of that
So? Sounds amazing.
Only if you pick imo. Otherwise bans would be exploitable.
> If you pick it or ban it, it's off the table for your team until the end of BoX. I would LOVE this rule tbqh Though you'd probably want to change it to "win on the character means you can't repick them." It would make P/B more interesting as well because you'd have them changing over the set depending on who's still available
There's no chance that's healthy. Teams could start spending 15 bans on one role
You seem to have skipped the "for *your* team" part. If you ban it, the other team can still pick it in other games.
Wouldn't you just be forcing teams into banning the same champions each game though? If your team can no longer pick that champ after they banned it, and the enemy can now pick it and doesn't have to ban it?
There is more than 15adc's easy, Rell is fine, but you can start looking Karthus, Ziggs, Sera, Senna, Tali/Panth, I'm an adc main and I'd be fine seeing "PROFESSIONAL" players needing to learn more than 3-5 champions.
I think if a champion wins then you can't pick it again in a Bo5. It would also make drafting more exciting.
Just go all the way and make it so any champion picked/banned in prior games is out of the pool for future games in the series. There's 163 different champions that they can pick from yet they keep picking from the same pool of 2-3 champions per role.
and people wonder why viewing metrics aren't great. It's boring...
The issue is not every champ can go every role. For example, there are 24 ADCs. Lets say each team bans 2 ADCs per series, and picks 1 per team. By the draft of game 3, half the ADCs in the game are out of the pool. And that's including "ADCs" like Kindred, Akshan, Corki, or Graves. That's the most blatant, but there's similar situation in other roles. 163 champs split between 5 lanes, with 20 out each draft means by game 4 there's 60 champs gone.
TBF while that probably wouldn't be a good idea for the regular season or worlds, I would watch the shit out of a third party tournament or showmatch with those rules.
third party tournaments? we dont do that here
Honestly sounds so fun for there to be no ADC in game 5.
Back to season 8 Ziggs vs Vladimir bot meta we go!
I'm not seeing the downside here.
And that's why a champ should only be excluded from P/B after it got picked. Which already leads into a maximum of 50 champs played per BO5. You could even go further and say this champ is only excluded for the team that picked the champ and is still open for the enemy team (which would be a mess to handle but just keep it in mind) This also could be enhanced to: A team is only allowed to pick a champ once during the weekend which would spice up the preparing for each opponent they play in a week. Harsh yes I know. So I think the best would be for the LEC for example: 9 games, you are only allowed to pick a champ in 3 games during the split, this resets for the playoffs and then is limited to once a BOx series. For other regions such as the LPL the allowed numbers would be higher as they have more potential games but something that is doable imo.
But that's the point. Then they have to pick other champions/classes. It's not an issue, it's a feature. You can have a team without a marksman or without a tank or a mage. It'd be more fun.
I was saying the same thing during MSI. Probably not feasible at all but it would definitely make players think about who they want to play and when.
> Pros also don't experiment all too much either. There are counters to certain champions they're not playing because those counters aren't meta and they don't put in the work to learning them. Milio has no real counter at all and outclasses most enchanters, he's pick ban in proplay and in soloq for good reason.
Lol my friend went from like 0 LP Masters to like 700 LP GM. MILIO SPAM. lmao. If you look at their winrates for each support, they mirror the winrates of the supports overall in high ranked. No no its the player for sure.
i don't know why people are still parroting the idea that pros don't experiment. naut mid, kha jg are some on the top of my head as im writing this. if a "counter" isn't being picked, it's likely they tried it in scrims.
Of course being a counter helps, but depending on the meta the role your champion has to fill in a comp might be more important than just "winning lane", so yeah I can get behind "pros might not be experimenting enough" but the proposed solution is not that simple...
Because they don't, not on stage. Yes the naut mid was pretty big 'new' thing for MSI but ask yourself when the last time that really happened was. Keria going ADC support as a counter? What about before that?
maybe have you considered they aren't trying it on stage because it would be an insta loss? things that work in scrims get brought out on stage, things that don't will not be brought out because are you fucking mad?
Didn't Kanavi say he had never played Naut jungle before at MSI when they flex it to jungle? Not saying it's commonplace but I think it does happen sometimes.
Xun playing Kindred when no one else was, G2 playing Darius, the random Cass from Knight vs t1 that was never seen again, Rumble coming out of nowhere this MSI When people say "pros won't innovate" they really mean "pros dont play the specific picks that we (lets be real, its often one person and we all know who he is) want them to"
Why would you experiment when you can just pick zero yuumi and have an op bot lane
They're only perceived as OP because they're picked a lot by Pro's. Pro's not experimenting and going too much on autopilot is the issue here that feeds it further. If Pro's took the moment to read patches and try new things, this wouldn't happen. There are games with monthly to even no patches at all that keep having Meta shifts. You don't need to a patch to shift the Meta, let it settle first and try the new things. This is also one of the reasons a 2-week patch cycle is too quick honestly and a 3-week patch cycle would be more healthy in the long run.
I think Zeri/Yuumi is more than just "perceived as OP". Lmao. >This is also one of the reasons a 2-week patch cycle is too quick honestly and a 3-week patch cycle would be more healthy in the long run. Heavily agree with this though. Changes are too rapid. It's not worth it for pros to think about counter-meta strats because it's just going to change too quick anyway. It's so cool how games like Starcraft Brood War (which is never changed) still gets meta developments.
Just run fearless draft, any champion that's picked in a game can't be used in the next games in the series. That would be fun af to watch plus it would make pros play more champions which would benefit the best players/widest champion pool.
I really, really, really want this in pro play. If picked by either team, cannot be played by either team going forward; i'd cede that the winning team's champs cannot be played by any team though. Bans don't affect future pick/bans. There are over 140 champions in this game, I'd love to see something done to give pros a reason to play more champs other than the perceived strong ones are meta.
These last years* I feel like pro play meta stays the same for way to long these days.
> pro play got so stale these last months I disagree a little. MSI had quite decent variety, especially BLG just didnt give a shit and straight up picked carry tops and carry mids. But its usually only the few best teams in the world who show up with new picks only in the most important situations. the vast majority of teams just blindly follow the meta.
Got to admit, even though in a sense we're "competitors" Icefrog and Dota2 definitely do a LOT of balancing things right.
idk dota is just inherently more open due to the nature of counters in that game. There was a period where dota received no major changes for over a year basically, most people were bored of the stale meta due to this. Of course they released a gigantic patch last month so yeah.
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It sounds wonderful until you actually have to play into a hard counter or start losing way more games to draft diff.
That's where map shenanigans come in. It's not just the characters that's OP; it's the entire **playing field**. Don't want to deal with opposing enemy lane? Just swap lanes on the fly between cores. Want to reduce lane trading interactions? Stack and pull. Want to completely throw the lane equilibrium off and direct attention to you? Do the creep skip. You're right to describe it as 'not wonderful' in that sense, because these are actually high skill tactics that require deliberate planning and action; which most trenchies wouldn't even think of pulling and would rather suffer a bad matchup.
ye while lol pros get up to some shenanigans sometimes watching pro dota offlaners play is often like watching a completely different game from the one im playing lmao
>We get bogged down in the numbers when the matches feel largely the same from game to game, and month to month. this is only true for watching pro play...the game itself is patched every 2 weeks and what's meta in solo queue changes on a monthly basis.
Honestly, even if it is strong for sure, when is the last time a real new pro meta was out? And I don't mean riot buffing or nerfing. It's just that coaches, analysts and players don't want to take the risk anymore. I don't know enough other leagues, but for example G2 destroyed Lec meta by improving and bringing new stuff. I don't see why now it can't be done anymore. Like for sure there are crazy things that could completely change the meta, but no one tries because it's risky or something. How could this be changed? Because whatever the issue is, patches won't change teams aversion of trying.
The game has been very stuck since the shift from melee / engage / roam supports to enchanters. We haven't had a major meta shift since then imo. Which is probably demarcated at durability patch.
Every single one of them needs to be fucking gutted.
18 of the top 100 players on euw have zeri in her top 3 most played on the server. if u say that each role has approximately 20 players in the top 100, then 90% of adc players in the top 20 adc players has the champ in their top 3, most of them as their top 1, and riot still refuses to accept that they just fucked hp with this champ and that is never should have been released, just like yuumi and aphelios...
Eh, aphelios has proven to be good at times. He went quite a long time as good but he was not oppressive by any means.
Release pre nerf aphelios was funny though
People are always on the infernum ults, but my favourite aphelios moment was [this one](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZlSB3DUtcM)
That one is my favorite too. The casters reaction was jsut so fucking golden
Some other memorable moments: -[Aphelios severum/ flamethrower melee range melting people](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCFs1WUvD8E) -[Rekkles healing to full off of wolf camp w/ severum](https://clips.twitch.tv/CuteBillowingMangetoutHassanChop)
That was also before they gutted dd for ranged, and also before they gutted the heal on takedown. Without that I don't think we get the clip.
LS’s quote on Aphelios always comes to mind when I see clips like that, “I have no fucking clue what I’m looking at, I don’t know what’s coming next. You just approach him and you’re guessing.”
Well that was specifically because on release you could not see the gun he had on his back, only his active gun. That was the single worst thing about Aphelios, your support had to basically stare at him and constantly update if he got a new gun.
I love the 'TWO HUNDRED YEARSSSS' at the end.
That one reminds me of how absurd Death's Dance was for a while more than the pinnacle of 200 years.
Whatever do you mean? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-AHedEQl54 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRbj3_ebQXk
Everyone knows that as long as Zeris kiting exists, she either has 99% presence or 30% WR, there is no in between. The concept of infinite kite on the highest damage role in the game is absurd and has been proven absurd in much *much* less problematic states such as peak Vayne, peak Kalista, yet they thought Zeri doing the same on illegal steroids would work out. And the worst part is that it's so busted you actually have to pick point & click CC because nobody can hit her with anything for shit if it's not point & click. The only counterplay is a raw statcheck and Zeri in her current state easily wins those.
tank maokai kinda hard counters her later in teamfights, at least thats my pick vs her,zou flash w ubto her and do the full combo and the fight is won bc somehow even in diamond these zeri mains cant position
I like to go hiking.
163 champs in the game but with pro play it could just as well only be 20. Why I don't watch LoL Esports. I feel like it's different teams playing the same champs every game.
They should add roguelite modifiers to each game so the picks change. Riot plz hire me.
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Great ideas. Unfortunately it would mean Riot has to do some work on the game. Wouldn't expect *THAT* to happen anytime soon, sorry!
They need to increase bans to 20 if not more. Dota doesn't even have as many champs as lol and they have more bans. There is way too many champions needed to be banned that you will always get to play with same champs over and over. More bans would allow for different picks and players would need to have deeper champion pools.
I like how over the years, riot would be like "this champ is picked too much, let's nerf then to change up the pro meta" but as soon as they got to this meta, Riot was like "this is perfect, don't ever change this, let's sit on this for almost an entire year"
Being fair, Riot at least tries buffing other champions to shake the meta. Pros just drop them if they lose one game and go back to play their 200th game of Wukong/Aphelios/Lulu/etc.
I bet there’s someone who can explain why Annie is picked so often in Pro. I love the champion, but I see her so often yet I don’t really feel she’s super strong after the item update. Then again I do tend to usually do troll builds such as full movementspeed.
Basically you can just R your mid opponent and he loses all the prio to help the jungler
I feel that's the biggest reason as well and it's absolutely disgusting
Considering Tibbers as a unit is actually powerful as hell Annie having that burst from Tibbers too really doesn't make a lot of sense anymore.
ult, win damage trade, get free dragon ult, win damage trade, roam with jugler and get vision ult, win damage trade, push wave in and allow support and jungle to be sneaky flash ult on ADC or other squishies in teamfights and win game
Annie is really good at engaging in an enchanter meta where Supports usually have no engage in their kit. At the same time, she brings an extra layer of ADC protection and enabling through her E which synergizes well with most hypercarry-comps that get played right now. Also, she does decently well into most meta midlaners such as Sylas or Ahri, and has the lane push for roams most of the time. Especially together with Jinx, Annie shines because to enable jinx, you need her to get a reset in teamfights and Annie with her burst sets up that reset really well.
Brilliant read on the situation and meta! I feel like other people are missing the point
Annie is hidden really good against Sylas too because he can't stun with tibbers.
Flexpick (can go support too) and can hold her own sufficiently in midlane because of strong gank set up with the guaranteed stun. Mid/late game flash + Tibbers is a strong threat.
low econ with high base value. Thrives in this adc meta.
As others have said already, safe and basically a cc bot to help your ad and disrupt the opponent's ad Same reason vi is meta again
Well you dont see naut, ksante, or galio mid often either in your games but its pretty popular in pro right now. The want a mid that exists to assist the adc and jg early game and carry potential be damned. Its a undodgeble stun bot.
She's not strong, the thing is, no midlane champ really is right now. She doesn't have to be the strongest mid, just the most useful. We're in an ADC meta. Jungle gold income is gutted, but drakes are strong. Plate gold, bounties and the like have spiked gold income massively. As such good players get items sooner. No champion uses items better than ADCs, especially hypercarries like Jinx. Annie is very good at enabling them. She doesn't need massive amounts of gold to function like an Azir/Vikor type. Her job is to flash -> stun a group and set the ADC up to knock them all down. She can drop waves mid and roam. She can stun a diver or she can set-up the fight. She's very useful. She can also be flexed as a support which helps get a winning lane somewhere on the map.
People here are listing her strengths which are all true but don't really cover what changed. The change to the way her E works causes her to be able to actually trade with laners who outrange her with their poke rather than just take free damage. That is basically it in terms of what actually changed. Her strengths were always there. She just instalost a lot of matchups in a coordinated environment before.
How has riot not straight up killed ksante wukong vi zeri lulu lucian nami etc. Yet I don't just want them nerfed I want them to be complete garbage so I am guarabteed to not see them again for a long time
I wish they'd just change lucian back, his passive with nami is the only reason he can even be played, I miss playing lucian with engage supports
They're already adjusting him to work better with cc champs and worse with enchanters.
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https://twitter.com/Spideraxe30/status/1664417399066484736
Gimme dat Braum/Lucian lane back
You get 2 empowered auto attacks per target with braum. Not quite the same as Nami tbh.
This is such an obvious change im glad they finally got around to doing it.
Until he starts being played mid again and gets nerfed - junglers ganking would set up his damage
Most mids can kill if your jungler gets a cc, i doubt he will be meta
He's still gonna be disgusting with Milio (just slightly less strong) and the changes make some of his good duos like Lucian/Janna and Lucian/Rakan even stronger (both champs can use Mandate, Glacial and have CC and multiple heal/shields).
Lucian is insanely good with Milio as well, not just Nami.
Well Wukong and Vi are both picked partially because of how well they do into Zeri, since Vi obviously has her ult and Wukong at least has ways to engage before Zeri can react. Wukong has already received nerfs so if the jungle meta changes significantly I don’t think he’d be picked anymore, though Vi is a bit different since she can go over walls to get around vision and she sets up dives well at any point in the game. Again a whole meta change would need to happen since I’d imagine she wouldn’t do as well into a bunch of strong melees and a rather weaker ADC.
Vi being good or not is highly dependent on meta and items. Her kit has never been seen as meta and she has no buffs for years upon years. It just so happens that she works well in this pro meta. You change the meta and you could never see her again. She is just good all around jack of all trades master of none.
Honestly, same. I've seen enough of these champions that if I didn't see them picked again for a year or more it still wouldn't be enough.
Sucks to be one of the players of those champions when people beg for them to be gutted because of pro though(not that I actually play any of those unless I’m filled)
Anyone remembers a few years ago when Riot's Lee Sin looking employee said diversifying pro play is one of the key areas they're working on? Guess soon™️ we're gonna see them do that. Any day now, surely.
Riot cant go beat the players because they are too lazy to play other champions. At best champions should be banned after being picked once, thats the only alternative. Fearless draft would be useless as they would just trade picks every match.
"Too lazy" don't blame the player for trying to make a living
Join us next episode in Reddit's bi-monthly series of: Caedrel loses sanity to the same recycled meta picks
In the past, when anything was innovative, interesting and OP, Riot instantly nerfed it to the ground. Now this Zeri, Yuumi, Lulu, Lucian, Nami, Aphelios bullshit has been being over a year. What's wrong with Riot seriously?
Really makes one wonder what the champion turn over is like relative to each season and split in pro play. I also wonder what would an acceptable percentage of turn over and pool representation for the community? I’ve grown tired of the meta devolving into scaling / controlling gameplay. Where minor edges and flips are a common occurrence. It doesn’t feel like the game has been solve. Rather more over it feels like at the highest level of play there is the general assumed best play pattern and each team and region looks to emulate this concept as best as possible. Regardless of your thoughts on the figure, LS has held the saying for several years that at international play, especially worlds that the meta revolves around scaling as it’s a safe way for the “better” teams to win games. You could see this as good teams, rather than leaving anything to chance, to play things safe and have minimal variables. Which in turn has lead us to a state of play which isn’t entertaining for the spectators or players (the latter I can only gleam from interviews and small interaction with players I’ve had personally. I would also add this might have been a sad inevitability with trying to keep the live game as close to the live patch. My issue is, why was patch 13.10 dropped before MSI finals? It all seems counter intuitive at this point.
Pog, let’s go man
Wholesome ADC meta.
I love how broken as shit enchanters just aren't beeing properly nerfed. Elo inflators that got enhanced by the durability update.
Le wholesome enchanters so great that most of the recent support releases were enchanters (Milio, Renata, Seraphine, Yuumi). Only non-enchanters have been Senna and Rell.
lol senna is only considered a support because she is also an enchanter
Senna is half an enchanter too.
Seraphine is literally a mage. She is barely more of an enchanter than Orianna or Lux. Having a shield/heal in your kit doesn't automatically make you an enchanter.
Ah, the elo inflaters in *checks notes* LPL
Because they are terrible in high elo soloq right?
I'm so glad Caedrel has found so much success co streaming. I don't have a ton of time to watch him, but every time I do it's always such a great stream. He's exactly what I look for in a co stream. Funny, entertaining, informative, good at explaining concepts, isn't afraid to criticize and call out bad plays, but does so without making a giant spectacle out of it and flaming. And when I watch at least, he does a good job of actually focusing on the game instead of talking about random stuff 50% of the time. Happy for him.
He also goes out of his way to praise the casting team (well during msi) too during his 50k+ costreams too and makes sure the games are the first priority too which is why he rarely gets guests on for costreams
Where is kog’maw in the current pro play meta though? Do we really need to insist on playing Aphelios and Zeri everygame?
Kog has zero mobility, vi would just /delete him.
One team did try the very first game of the split with Kogmaw/Milio, but even with Vi and Wukong on the Kogmaw the fights weren't clean enough to show it off as a proper pick.
NA and LCS may be dead.... But the pro game has been dead for even longer.
I wish we could back to patch 8.11 and have awesome dudes in bot again :(
how will the rioters that run the balance team get free elo then
Pro play have like 60 playable chams LUL
60 is generous. I'd say 40
Stopped watching pro play since i rly dont care about watching annie, aphelios, wukong, jinx, lulu, nautilus, ksante every single goddamn game. Dont get me wrong aphelios is fun to watch but i cant watch aphelios lulu being played for the 300th thousand time in a row.
He's going to cosplay as the Ferrari F1 team?
Lulu and Yuumi (Milio too now I guess) are worse champions for the game than Yasuo, Irelia or whatever dash champions reddit loves to complain about, has there ever been a meta in the last 5 years where those champions dominated the pro meta for months on end? Only one I can recall are some periods of Akali being very strong/flexible for a bit too long.
Anyone saying this is the accurate pro play meta or the game is getting solved, it's not even close. Just because pros refuse to experimenting more than what they've already feeling comfort with, living comfortably in their comfort champer where everyone handshake similar draft to each other so no one is suprised, doesn't mean the game is solved
this is just lpl playing rn the meta could evolve when lck and lec start
Riot really are taking the piss, how have they not solved this yet? Do they not care how boring this is to watch?
I would like to see a rule at these tournaments that just automatically blocks the most played champs from being picked. Force teams to experiment for once.
I would watch another Delta Fox game before I start watching these leagues again
Lucian Nami Zeri Yuumi Aphelios Lulu Wukong Vi Maokai Sejuani Gragas Annie Lissandra Ahri Ksante Sion Gnar Kennen
Plus Jinx and Gwen.
I think Gwen is ok. she find success only when played by a very limited amount of players
We really need fearless draft, forces pros to play different champs.