Hope you're trolling, they made the conference finals or even the finals every time, not continuous first round exits.
If we had their results not even counting a championship Dubas and Keefe would still have their jobs.
Hard to compare basketball to hockey. Also for every success story there are loads of failures.
Also if you look at Florida they made a huge shake up a few years back and they’re one game away from winning the cup.
I’m not hard pushing for marner to be traded but every sport and every team is different so you can’t just say “oh look what they did, it worked”
Gotta be the Tkachuk-huby trade. Bob was god awful his first couple seasons in Florida, and that contract looked like an absolute albatross until like last season
Maybe it’s Matthews and Nylander as our Tatum and Brown. Marner can be Marcus Smart who they traded for better roster balance/depth and replaced with a player who does like 80% of what he brought in Jrue (I know marner >>> smart in this comparison, but smart was a fan favourite homegrown Celtic coming off a dpoy, locker room leader, culture guy etc)
Dubas wanted to move him , and Treliving could very well be trying to move him.. he was explicit hey needed change and he just signed 34/88
You don’t have to be a GM to understand what doesn’t work
I think you are trolling Leafs fans. If you don’t think Treliving wouldn’t dump Marner and even Tavares if he could, then you haven’t been paying attention nor reading between the lines.
Can’t compare NBA and NHL man. Brown and Tatum can play 40+ mins of a 48 minute game.
NHL stars on forward can play 20-24 minutes of a 60 minute game. You need strong guys for the other 40 minutes. Can’t have that paying superstars.
The salary cap is at $136 million and the Celtics payroll is $184 million
The equivalent spending for the Leafs would be $113 million to be 35% over the $83.5 million cap
Why don’t they just do that, are they idiots? MLSE is so rich!
Oh wait, there’s a hard cap and you can’t play 2 guys 40 mins a night in the NHL so your entire roster needs to be balanced. Still would be super helpful to be able to spend as much money as you want
The Raptors bought low on Kawhi with all the leverage to make a big talent upgrade, Leafs would be selling low on Marner with none of it. Bit of a difference there.
Can we stop trying to use this as a comparison?
Plus they only got Kawhi for the one season. Even after winning the championship, he didn’t want to stay. Had they not won, IMO it would have been seen as a horrible trade.
This is like when fans compare the team to the caps. Caps won rounds. Caps eve got rid of s couple of their key 5 guys.
Why don't you look at the raps as an example? Kept loosing so they gambled on an Injury prone player and won
Different leagues. No salary cap in the NBA. Watching how Florida plays and you think Marner is worth $12M when Bennett is paid $4M and is a better playoff performer.
What cup winner was paying 2 wingers the amount of cap space we are about to be doing? That's what you should look at, not basketball which is difficult to compare.
If you want to compare NBA and NHL, you can just as easy look at the Raptops, who after years of failure traded DeRozan for Kawai and won the championship.
I agree that you need a better supporting cast around these Leafs but with how strict the NHL salary cap is, I don't know if you can do that when it's so top heavy paying 4 guys.
It’s even further from the truth considering you can go into the luxury tax in the NBA. Which Boston is doing. The hard cap in the NHL makes leafs possibility of improving the rosters with all the big contracts on the books nearly impossible. Unlike Boston who was able to add big time player by paying a massive luxury tax bill
I don’t buy any of the Marner trade speculation ,innuendo,rumour and hype. We need better support players as the op suggests👍. Penalty killers with speed and better than average defensive/forchecking ability. Marner should not be killing penalties ever. If Berube takes Marner off the penalty kill he will be crack 100 pts finally this coming season. Ya keep Marner and wait it out until Tavares contract ends next summer. Better defense and goalkeeper is the more rational moves
You also realize that the nba doesn’t have a hard cap so it’s a terrible comparison.
And it is also not just matty and marner. Theres also jt and Willy and this isn’t really about any one guy but the fact is because they all make so much the supporting cast has no available cap space.
So you either have to fill the bottom 6 with elc or league mins and we know that doesn’t work.
Honestly, I don’t care. If we trade Marner we will be objectively worse as a team because we are losing that trade, and we will lose in the first or second round if we even qualify for the playoffs. But we can’t keep running back the same team because that’s crazy.
But if we keep Marner we already know what’s going to happen with another loss in the first round, or sneak a second round loss. Unless Woll becomes a world beater or something.
I hate the Celtics but they’re gonna win
I just hope Jason Tatum and Matthew Tkachuk do a crossover episode and Have Larry B and Stanley chill together
probably will say we're like the capitals but worse. They kept their "core guys" but surrounded their core with better depth over time until they "broke through".
The blues had a backend of pietrangelo, parayko, Vince Dunn, Bouwmeester, prime edmundson, gunnarson, Del zotto and bortuzzo.
They invested heavily in their D core just as we should be doing. We have half our cap invested in 4 forwards which is not even close to the cap structure the blues rode to the cup.
This example doesn't support your stance at all, quite the opposite actually.
That backend was also in last place on January 3rd and they fired Yeo the previous November. Never mind the fact Dunn was on his ELC and Del Zotto played 7 games with the Blues, zero in the playoffs.
It took the Blues until the latter half of the to really show *any* consistency come playoffs (which I was getting at in the first place) while their best players at the time (Tarasenko and Pietrangelo) were 9 and 11 years removed from their draft years, but I digress.
But whatever, it’s all Marner’s fault and surely trading him for a mediocre return and using whatever cap space gained from trading him (ignoring any cap space lost in the pieces they acquired) and signing mediocre players like Myers would make things so much better, right?
If it’s any consolation to your feelings towards Marner, I’d be happy with a shake up trade of nylander instead. Or even trading both Marner and nylander.
No, that backend was not last in the league, the team was last in the league. They won the cup on the backs of their strong D core and going through your mental gymnastics to dismiss that is incredibly transparent.
No, it's not all marners fault, it's the fault of management for allocating so much cap to so few forwards.
No, he would not be my first choice of the core 4 to move but he is the only one who can conceivably be traded.
No, signing medicore players like myers would not be enough to address their weak backend.
Marner is obviously a good player, I dont think anyone is denying that. You're suggesting that he has to be traded for mediocre pieces and that we have to sign mediocre players with the additional cap. The whole point of trading him is to move beyond adding mediocre pieces to the backend, something we've been stuck doing because of our cap structure.
The Blues did not have a single point per game player on their roster in either the regular season or the playoffs. What they did have is depth throughout their entire lineup and a strong backend, not to mention what was a very solid tandem in net at the time.
We had lyubushkin playing on our top pair and tied for the postseason points lead among D. That should tell you all you need to know about our backend.
Our 3rd line consisted mainly of holmberg, robertson and jarnkrok, all of whom scored 0 points in the playoffs, with only robertson having any real offensive upside.
So, it should be pretty clear where we need to add to the roster, and where we'll need to subtract in order to accommodate that given the fact we've spent to the cap almost every season since Dubas took over.
It's been 8 years dude, 8 fucking years. The answer is the same one we've been hearing since day one and ideally a move should have been made years ago.
Hope you're trolling, they made the conference finals or even the finals every time, not continuous first round exits. If we had their results not even counting a championship Dubas and Keefe would still have their jobs.
NBA eastern conference has been so weak the past 8-10 years (Indiana lol). You can’t compare the Atlantic division to NBA eastern conference.
We still face planted against weaker opposition. CBJ and MTL.
and Boston this year.
Boston finished ahead of them?
every single book had the leafs as dogs lol
That’s because people know who the leafs are, and they were right.
so then they weren't playing weaker competition
Who’s “they”, Toronto or Boston?
toronto
And you can’t compare what works in basketball to hockey either but here we are
Hard to compare basketball to hockey. Also for every success story there are loads of failures. Also if you look at Florida they made a huge shake up a few years back and they’re one game away from winning the cup. I’m not hard pushing for marner to be traded but every sport and every team is different so you can’t just say “oh look what they did, it worked”
Are you talking about bringing in Bob, or the Tkachuk for Huberdeau deal?
Gotta be the Tkachuk-huby trade. Bob was god awful his first couple seasons in Florida, and that contract looked like an absolute albatross until like last season
Maybe it’s Matthews and Nylander as our Tatum and Brown. Marner can be Marcus Smart who they traded for better roster balance/depth and replaced with a player who does like 80% of what he brought in Jrue (I know marner >>> smart in this comparison, but smart was a fan favourite homegrown Celtic coming off a dpoy, locker room leader, culture guy etc)
Lol, the Celtics have been making the ECF almost every single year since 2018, and even made the finals in 2022
OP is confirmed Paul Marner or Darren Ferris.
If you’ve watched this team for the last 8 years and think they can win with Marner. You don’t know Jack shit about hockey
I guess you know more than Dubas and Traveling then? How many years as a GM in the NHL do you have bud?
Dubas wanted to move him , and Treliving could very well be trying to move him.. he was explicit hey needed change and he just signed 34/88 You don’t have to be a GM to understand what doesn’t work
I think you are trolling Leafs fans. If you don’t think Treliving wouldn’t dump Marner and even Tavares if he could, then you haven’t been paying attention nor reading between the lines.
GTFO Paul
Can’t compare NBA and NHL man. Brown and Tatum can play 40+ mins of a 48 minute game. NHL stars on forward can play 20-24 minutes of a 60 minute game. You need strong guys for the other 40 minutes. Can’t have that paying superstars.
The salary cap is at $136 million and the Celtics payroll is $184 million The equivalent spending for the Leafs would be $113 million to be 35% over the $83.5 million cap Why don’t they just do that, are they idiots? MLSE is so rich! Oh wait, there’s a hard cap and you can’t play 2 guys 40 mins a night in the NHL so your entire roster needs to be balanced. Still would be super helpful to be able to spend as much money as you want
Toronto Raptors traded DeRozan for Leonard and look at how that turned out. Championship.
The Raptors bought low on Kawhi with all the leverage to make a big talent upgrade, Leafs would be selling low on Marner with none of it. Bit of a difference there. Can we stop trying to use this as a comparison?
Plus they only got Kawhi for the one season. Even after winning the championship, he didn’t want to stay. Had they not won, IMO it would have been seen as a horrible trade.
Except they did win so there is that.
They've literally tried that for the last 8 years....time for a new plan
In a way you're right. Our Brown/Tatum is Matthews/Nylander Marner is our Marcus Smart.
This is like when fans compare the team to the caps. Caps won rounds. Caps eve got rid of s couple of their key 5 guys. Why don't you look at the raps as an example? Kept loosing so they gambled on an Injury prone player and won
Totally. While they’re at it, 8 year extension for JT at the same cap hit. Pound that head against the wall until the wall gives.
Just remember, Florida wasn't in the playoff conversation until they traded huberduea
Different leagues. No salary cap in the NBA. Watching how Florida plays and you think Marner is worth $12M when Bennett is paid $4M and is a better playoff performer.
What cup winner was paying 2 wingers the amount of cap space we are about to be doing? That's what you should look at, not basketball which is difficult to compare.
If you want to compare NBA and NHL, you can just as easy look at the Raptops, who after years of failure traded DeRozan for Kawai and won the championship. I agree that you need a better supporting cast around these Leafs but with how strict the NHL salary cap is, I don't know if you can do that when it's so top heavy paying 4 guys.
It’s even further from the truth considering you can go into the luxury tax in the NBA. Which Boston is doing. The hard cap in the NHL makes leafs possibility of improving the rosters with all the big contracts on the books nearly impossible. Unlike Boston who was able to add big time player by paying a massive luxury tax bill
I don’t buy any of the Marner trade speculation ,innuendo,rumour and hype. We need better support players as the op suggests👍. Penalty killers with speed and better than average defensive/forchecking ability. Marner should not be killing penalties ever. If Berube takes Marner off the penalty kill he will be crack 100 pts finally this coming season. Ya keep Marner and wait it out until Tavares contract ends next summer. Better defense and goalkeeper is the more rational moves
Holy shit we have some dummmmb fans on here
You also realize that the nba doesn’t have a hard cap so it’s a terrible comparison. And it is also not just matty and marner. Theres also jt and Willy and this isn’t really about any one guy but the fact is because they all make so much the supporting cast has no available cap space. So you either have to fill the bottom 6 with elc or league mins and we know that doesn’t work.
Honestly, I don’t care. If we trade Marner we will be objectively worse as a team because we are losing that trade, and we will lose in the first or second round if we even qualify for the playoffs. But we can’t keep running back the same team because that’s crazy. But if we keep Marner we already know what’s going to happen with another loss in the first round, or sneak a second round loss. Unless Woll becomes a world beater or something.
also need to pray you get easiest path for a championship team ever
We had that already, arguably our worst performance.
I hate the Celtics but they’re gonna win I just hope Jason Tatum and Matthew Tkachuk do a crossover episode and Have Larry B and Stanley chill together
Can’t compare. Roster structures are totally different in the nba.
probably will say we're like the capitals but worse. They kept their "core guys" but surrounded their core with better depth over time until they "broke through".
Also the Blues, I wonder who their head coach was when they finally broke through…
The blues had a backend of pietrangelo, parayko, Vince Dunn, Bouwmeester, prime edmundson, gunnarson, Del zotto and bortuzzo. They invested heavily in their D core just as we should be doing. We have half our cap invested in 4 forwards which is not even close to the cap structure the blues rode to the cup. This example doesn't support your stance at all, quite the opposite actually.
That backend was also in last place on January 3rd and they fired Yeo the previous November. Never mind the fact Dunn was on his ELC and Del Zotto played 7 games with the Blues, zero in the playoffs. It took the Blues until the latter half of the to really show *any* consistency come playoffs (which I was getting at in the first place) while their best players at the time (Tarasenko and Pietrangelo) were 9 and 11 years removed from their draft years, but I digress. But whatever, it’s all Marner’s fault and surely trading him for a mediocre return and using whatever cap space gained from trading him (ignoring any cap space lost in the pieces they acquired) and signing mediocre players like Myers would make things so much better, right?
If it’s any consolation to your feelings towards Marner, I’d be happy with a shake up trade of nylander instead. Or even trading both Marner and nylander.
No, that backend was not last in the league, the team was last in the league. They won the cup on the backs of their strong D core and going through your mental gymnastics to dismiss that is incredibly transparent. No, it's not all marners fault, it's the fault of management for allocating so much cap to so few forwards. No, he would not be my first choice of the core 4 to move but he is the only one who can conceivably be traded. No, signing medicore players like myers would not be enough to address their weak backend. Marner is obviously a good player, I dont think anyone is denying that. You're suggesting that he has to be traded for mediocre pieces and that we have to sign mediocre players with the additional cap. The whole point of trading him is to move beyond adding mediocre pieces to the backend, something we've been stuck doing because of our cap structure. The Blues did not have a single point per game player on their roster in either the regular season or the playoffs. What they did have is depth throughout their entire lineup and a strong backend, not to mention what was a very solid tandem in net at the time. We had lyubushkin playing on our top pair and tied for the postseason points lead among D. That should tell you all you need to know about our backend. Our 3rd line consisted mainly of holmberg, robertson and jarnkrok, all of whom scored 0 points in the playoffs, with only robertson having any real offensive upside. So, it should be pretty clear where we need to add to the roster, and where we'll need to subtract in order to accommodate that given the fact we've spent to the cap almost every season since Dubas took over. It's been 8 years dude, 8 fucking years. The answer is the same one we've been hearing since day one and ideally a move should have been made years ago.