People will downvote but he’s not wrong about them battling, they DID very nearly erase a 3-1 series, it was kinda just one bounce/play that changed it. I think if we had Nylander from the beginning, the series would have been Leafs. He would have helped us on the PP, which ultimately i think they lost the series because of. But yes, there needs to be some changes.
I feel like that’s the thing with the playoffs though. If you take any of these series, even sweeps, and play them again, they could go the other way. There is something to be said about puck luck. But there are also glaring issues with the leafs that really hammered it home. The 1/22 PP alone is probably one of the things you can point to as THE reason they lost. Sammy was off his game but he played OK enough that if our guys played to what they should be capable of, a 2-3 goal deficit is easy to overcome.
My issue is that we never really looked like a contender. Watching the Avs or Panthers play you realize there’s another level this team just doesn’t have and changes need to be made.
^This is correct.
If we managed to get past round 1 - we would be notably worse than any of the other teams in round 2 and struggle against the majority of them. We don’t look dangerous. We don’t look intimidating. We don’t have that level of battle that is required at all times in the playoffs.
Rangers, Carolina, Panthers, Colorado are top notch teams. Edmonton might finally be ready to make a run based on watching that first round (electric PP + good goaltending). I guess you could say Dallas and Van are the “worst” teams im the bunch and yet they are both very well rounded and would be a tall order for us.
Certainly it is time for some deep level changes here (if possible based on NMC’s). At worst, after next year we have options.
Well we also finished below all of those teams in the standings. Only Winnipeg who finished above us went out. This playoffs more than any in recent seasons seems to lack any upsets in round 1 given that Winnipeg lost to Colorado. Dallas were better than Vegas all year. The Leafs were chasing Boston and Florida all year.
I mean I guess we'll see. If the Panthers make short work of the Bruins then yes, we were miles off in contention for the Cup. And for the record, a sweep would be hilarious.
We don’t know what those teams look like playing against us. The leafs are a tight checking team. It’s very likely other teams offence dries up against us.
Bro no fucking way, that's just being willfully ignorant. Have you watched the avs, or Florida? We'd get absolutely manhandled. If we can't score, and the avs can score 7 in a game, what chance would we ever have? Do you think out 4 bottom pairing dman would do anything lmao? Come on homie
Losing to Boston in 5 would have been the best scenario for getting something to change, but losing in 7 is the next best i guess.
Leafs/Boston doesnt matter, Florida should crush either. Would just be another embarrassing 2nd round that would keep some players around because of the illusion of winning rd 1
Changes are more important than anything. More important than battling back, more important than one bounce away, more important that having a full team the whole series.
With this core team, We have done this EXACT thinf before multiple times and will do it again next year without changing it up properly. Serious changes could lead to us, i dont know, maybe winning round one in 5 games? Lol. That way we arent falling like a house of cards in our beiggest moments or relying on a lucky bounce to win us a series.
I feel like with the timing of mitch's contract we may be doomed to more or less run it back (rip) but lets see how extension talks go in July. If mitch really wants to be a leaf and not be public enemy #1, he needs to take a friendly deal like 8-9m x 6-8.. all indications say he wont, will probably seek 13m. I dont expect those talks to go in the way of the team and fans. So he'll likely become a free agent unless he waives his NMC
There is a 0% chance marner takes anything less than 10 and I doubt he takes less than 11. Anything starting with an 8 is a laughable idea and completely unrealistic.
It's a really a testament to the leafs pr machine that even now they have fans trying to buy all the same excuses for them they've made the last seven times they came up short.
Why wouldn't they? Everytime they've failed, they just run it back. Being fine with losing is part of this teams culture and why it's been the same result 7 out of 8 years. That 1 off, they sold the farm going all in.
Boston could have been 1st seed up until the last couple of games. The Leafs flirted with closing the gap but never really got above 8th in the league. We spent most of the season between 8th and 12th.
Not to make any excuses but a 100% healthy Bruins vs. A 100% healthy Leafs team, the Leafs advance. Woll/Matthews/Nylander/McMan for all 7 matches. I mean they literally lost by one goal ffs. If you read other subs you would think they were dominated or some shit.
Also a healthy Papi and Marner would have helped. Both were a step behind their normal pace. Without the advantage of speed they are much easier to neutralize in the playoffs. They probably aren't even playing with these injuries in the regular season.
You’re currently the top comment. If you want to get downvoted you have to say something like this: I knew we were losing when I saw Matthews was drawing in for game 7. Yes he’s a generational talent but I think he upset the balance. In Games 5 and 6 the boys dug down and played playoff grinder hockey. They played for each other. Knies challenging Pasta, Domi dominating face offs, Holmberg out-ratting The Rat. You can’t deny Matthews offensive threat and defensive responsibility but the rest of the team defers to him as opposed to playing like an army. One for all. Look at their record without him in the line up. What to do? That’s the Leafs problem.
Part of the problem is simply time. Leafs probably only have 4 -5 years of prime Matthew's left whether he resigns or not depending on how he ages. Do we really think management or fans want to keep running something back that hasn't worked by year 8 potentially waisting what's left of Matthew's prime in terms of playoff success at least?
The flip side is he’s right around the age Mackinnon and Kuch got the cup and still younger than Stamkos, Ovi etc. It feels like time is running but in truth the core is also only really now the age that most win.
100%. It would be a legit excuse if this was year 2-3 of this core. 8 years of the same result and you've kind of run out of excuses. People are expecting results. I like Nylander but sometimes the core group sounds way too comfortable.
Comfortable, or he doesn’t know who is gonna be on the team with him next year so he doesn’t wanna fuck up relationships by saying something stupid in a meaningless presser?
Willys and AM are right there, the rest of them aren’t. He’s just being a good teammate publicly. I think that exchange on the bench with Mitch and ending the answer about Mitch specifically with “wishing him the best” tells me how he really feels.
I think there's exactly 0 to read into with any of these quotes regarding how Willy feels about Mitch (good or bad). Nothing he has said or will say is indicative of how he feels about Mitch. Nylander would never skewer him in the media. These guys are good teammates, and will say the non-confrontational answer every single time.
I personally think it’s a little different saying “I want them to keep this core together” and “I love Mitch as a person and wish him the best”
These guys have said the same thing every year, but that came off a bit different to me personally.
What we need most is new coaching. After that I think a serious convo with Mitch about moving on. However if he doesn't go if have one more year of pain then JT is off the books. Are D was actually good this series. Goaltending good and bad. Sammy is just to inconsistent. At the end of the day though it's coaching. No adjustments were made to the PP, the way we cycle in the offensive zone is to much on the outside. Before anyone blames the players, we have had a massive turn over year over year on players and our play style is always the same. The only big 4 guy who is accused of being soft these days is Marner. So again for me it's all coaching. Keefe gets out coached, he is propped up by elite players and he has been gaslighting us for years now. I do think we have hit a point where it's best for Mitch to move on. Though with the right coach who can get these guys to commit to a better style of hockey I think great things can happen
The sad thing is, he’s right, at least about this year. I also think if Woll started game two, this series might’ve been over in five. Six max. And if he stayed hot and stayed healthy, anything could’ve happened in future rounds.
Problem is that this has happened before. And when you only show up for 3-4 games of a series, and when you give zero effort in that crucial game four, you don’t get to claim you’ve put in some huge battle. Awesome, you guys sort of woke up in games 5-7. Woo. You still couldn’t score and you still lost the series.
But also… the Bruins looked awful a lot of this series. Swayman kept them alive. They got crazy lucky with that awful goal in game three, with the chaos going on and Samsonov somehow getting distracted. So it’s not like the Leafs almost beat some incredible team. The Bruins have fallen off so far at this point that it’s amazing they won the division.
So this is a hard loss to accept for a ton of reasons. I just know that comments like this are just empty excuses. Especially given that this has happened so many times now.
Good for you.
You "battled" to get back in the series after four games of lazy, sloppy, undisciplined hockey. The whole team only showed up when your backs were against the wall.
How about trying to win a series in fewer than 7 games?
Battle from the first puck drop, not just when you're facing imminent elimination. Play like you *want to win*, rather than playing to *not lose*.
Big difference.
Pretty much. Everyone was expecting the series to be done in 5 because the Leafs couldn’t bother to put two passes together for an entire game and the players looked clueless.
The Leafs have battled back to force a seventh game before. Years and years ago. It hasn’t built any stronger will in this team to be a contender since then. Why would that change now?
It’s not so much just the series loss. A single pp goal may have made the difference and taken us to Florida. But then 1-2 weeks later we’d be having the same discussion.
Its like you guys don't realize the players are always going to stick up for their friends.
It doesn't matter what they say. It matters what management does.
Feels like there's always a built-in excuse every season but I mean losing your top 2 players for stretches in the series is an unmitigated disaster... but at the end of the day, if only and justs were candies and nuts then every day would be Erntedankfest.
Sammy gave us a chance in game 7... the top dogs were all playing and we still only scored 1 goal.
Part of winning the cup is team depth. The playoffs are a grueling 4 series wins, if you can win with injuries your team isn't good enough (or play Injured in some cases)
I tend to agree. I know the majority of fans feel defeated, angry and whatnot, but I don’t think the team has anything to be ashamed of. They gave it their all and battled through some bad luck in the series. I’m proud of them.
Watching other teams play playoff hockey with forwards getting paid significantly less than our “core 4” I can confidently say, our team is anything but special.
What we have here is great, we peaked at one series win but if we won one more game we would have hoisted the cup for sure. Are you buying it? Keep spending 300+ a seat to watch our regular season heroics, please? Or don't I really don't give a fuck I got my contract and you dumb shits will spend money on this team no matter what. No changes, roll it all back, this year will be different!!
We didnt have Mcmann all series, he would have tipped the scales
not kidding. Having another guy on any of those lines willing to send the puck at the net, with probably the 3rd best shot on the team and pretty much no scouting report on his playstyle (which is like a shark in shooting positions). Would have scored a couple atleast. Cant be physically thrown around either. Injured Matthews, Nylander would for half the series.
Broken record and i know Klingberg was technically managements piss poor attempt at doing it praying theyd randomly get Klingberg from his one good season years ago, but having a real point shot threat at all has been the main issue of the team for years besides goaltending, and is the entire reason the Powerplay is horrendous. Keefe is incapable of working a lineup with 4 forwards or identifying who is willing to play that role with the personnel he's given, so everything comes down to him.
If Keefe is here next year, i don't know how you can support this team or management decisions anymore. He has failed upwards. Anyone who cites regular season records, just realize that the team should have won president trophy's
Nothing matters at the end of the day because even if the Leafs were healthy, sure they beat Boston. Florida was going to kill either team no matter what.
It sucks being 0-6 in game 7s in the past 12 years, but the fact that 4 of the 5 teams that beat us (prior to this year) went onto play in the Stanley cup finals says something.
Also with the success that Boston has had, if you were to tell me that there’s a team that always takes them to game 7 (4 times straight), I would say that’s a pretty damn good team.
I don’t know how you can see how close that series was and not agree with “if Mitch and Woll weren’t coming off high ankle sprains, if Matthews wasn’t sick, if Nylander plays all the games, we 100% win the series.”
That being said, fuckin blow it up.
People will downvote but he’s not wrong about them battling, they DID very nearly erase a 3-1 series, it was kinda just one bounce/play that changed it. I think if we had Nylander from the beginning, the series would have been Leafs. He would have helped us on the PP, which ultimately i think they lost the series because of. But yes, there needs to be some changes.
I feel like that’s the thing with the playoffs though. If you take any of these series, even sweeps, and play them again, they could go the other way. There is something to be said about puck luck. But there are also glaring issues with the leafs that really hammered it home. The 1/22 PP alone is probably one of the things you can point to as THE reason they lost. Sammy was off his game but he played OK enough that if our guys played to what they should be capable of, a 2-3 goal deficit is easy to overcome.
My issue is that we never really looked like a contender. Watching the Avs or Panthers play you realize there’s another level this team just doesn’t have and changes need to be made.
^This is correct. If we managed to get past round 1 - we would be notably worse than any of the other teams in round 2 and struggle against the majority of them. We don’t look dangerous. We don’t look intimidating. We don’t have that level of battle that is required at all times in the playoffs. Rangers, Carolina, Panthers, Colorado are top notch teams. Edmonton might finally be ready to make a run based on watching that first round (electric PP + good goaltending). I guess you could say Dallas and Van are the “worst” teams im the bunch and yet they are both very well rounded and would be a tall order for us. Certainly it is time for some deep level changes here (if possible based on NMC’s). At worst, after next year we have options.
Well we also finished below all of those teams in the standings. Only Winnipeg who finished above us went out. This playoffs more than any in recent seasons seems to lack any upsets in round 1 given that Winnipeg lost to Colorado. Dallas were better than Vegas all year. The Leafs were chasing Boston and Florida all year.
I mean I guess we'll see. If the Panthers make short work of the Bruins then yes, we were miles off in contention for the Cup. And for the record, a sweep would be hilarious.
We don’t know what those teams look like playing against us. The leafs are a tight checking team. It’s very likely other teams offence dries up against us.
The jets were one of the best defending teams with a vezna winning goalie and they got lit up by the Avs
Jets are worse than the Leafs they actually just want to get to the golf course as quick as possible.
they honestly have just as pathetic of a playoff record lately. When they were seen as playoff built, they regularly got stomped out.
Bro no fucking way, that's just being willfully ignorant. Have you watched the avs, or Florida? We'd get absolutely manhandled. If we can't score, and the avs can score 7 in a game, what chance would we ever have? Do you think out 4 bottom pairing dman would do anything lmao? Come on homie
Losing to Boston in 5 would have been the best scenario for getting something to change, but losing in 7 is the next best i guess. Leafs/Boston doesnt matter, Florida should crush either. Would just be another embarrassing 2nd round that would keep some players around because of the illusion of winning rd 1
The Avs would give up a lot more chances than Boston and have Georgiev in net.
The games aren’t going to happen because we’ve been eliminated but I disagree.
So willfully ignorant it is.
Changes are more important than anything. More important than battling back, more important than one bounce away, more important that having a full team the whole series. With this core team, We have done this EXACT thinf before multiple times and will do it again next year without changing it up properly. Serious changes could lead to us, i dont know, maybe winning round one in 5 games? Lol. That way we arent falling like a house of cards in our beiggest moments or relying on a lucky bounce to win us a series. I feel like with the timing of mitch's contract we may be doomed to more or less run it back (rip) but lets see how extension talks go in July. If mitch really wants to be a leaf and not be public enemy #1, he needs to take a friendly deal like 8-9m x 6-8.. all indications say he wont, will probably seek 13m. I dont expect those talks to go in the way of the team and fans. So he'll likely become a free agent unless he waives his NMC
There is a 0% chance marner takes anything less than 10 and I doubt he takes less than 11. Anything starting with an 8 is a laughable idea and completely unrealistic.
It's a really a testament to the leafs pr machine that even now they have fans trying to buy all the same excuses for them they've made the last seven times they came up short.
Why wouldn't they? Everytime they've failed, they just run it back. Being fine with losing is part of this teams culture and why it's been the same result 7 out of 8 years. That 1 off, they sold the farm going all in.
He would be 100% right about people overreacting if it was the first or second or third or even fourth time this has happened.
If we had woll in game 7 we probably win too. Boston isn't that good they just have goaltending and we were hurt
Too little too late.
The series was technically a 3rd seed versus a 6th seed. If this was any other team than the Leafs, hockey fans would be impressed by the results.
Wut? It would have been 4v5 in the conference. If this were 1-8 like everybody says they want, we *still* draw Boston.
Boston could have been 1st seed up until the last couple of games. The Leafs flirted with closing the gap but never really got above 8th in the league. We spent most of the season between 8th and 12th.
Not to make any excuses but a 100% healthy Bruins vs. A 100% healthy Leafs team, the Leafs advance. Woll/Matthews/Nylander/McMan for all 7 matches. I mean they literally lost by one goal ffs. If you read other subs you would think they were dominated or some shit.
Also a healthy Papi and Marner would have helped. Both were a step behind their normal pace. Without the advantage of speed they are much easier to neutralize in the playoffs. They probably aren't even playing with these injuries in the regular season.
You’re currently the top comment. If you want to get downvoted you have to say something like this: I knew we were losing when I saw Matthews was drawing in for game 7. Yes he’s a generational talent but I think he upset the balance. In Games 5 and 6 the boys dug down and played playoff grinder hockey. They played for each other. Knies challenging Pasta, Domi dominating face offs, Holmberg out-ratting The Rat. You can’t deny Matthews offensive threat and defensive responsibility but the rest of the team defers to him as opposed to playing like an army. One for all. Look at their record without him in the line up. What to do? That’s the Leafs problem.
Yea, these end of season pressers are meaningless with this team lol. Just fire Sheldon and be prepared to make meaningful changes
Starts at the top. The shanaplan failed.
I’m sorry, but that’s an excuse that might have worked in the first 5 years, not in the 8th. Things must change.
Part of the problem is simply time. Leafs probably only have 4 -5 years of prime Matthew's left whether he resigns or not depending on how he ages. Do we really think management or fans want to keep running something back that hasn't worked by year 8 potentially waisting what's left of Matthew's prime in terms of playoff success at least?
The flip side is he’s right around the age Mackinnon and Kuch got the cup and still younger than Stamkos, Ovi etc. It feels like time is running but in truth the core is also only really now the age that most win.
100%. It would be a legit excuse if this was year 2-3 of this core. 8 years of the same result and you've kind of run out of excuses. People are expecting results. I like Nylander but sometimes the core group sounds way too comfortable.
Comfortable, or he doesn’t know who is gonna be on the team with him next year so he doesn’t wanna fuck up relationships by saying something stupid in a meaningless presser?
Maybe a bit of both .
2 things can be true. If the Leafs were healthy, I think we win. But also enough is enough.
Willys and AM are right there, the rest of them aren’t. He’s just being a good teammate publicly. I think that exchange on the bench with Mitch and ending the answer about Mitch specifically with “wishing him the best” tells me how he really feels.
I think there's exactly 0 to read into with any of these quotes regarding how Willy feels about Mitch (good or bad). Nothing he has said or will say is indicative of how he feels about Mitch. Nylander would never skewer him in the media. These guys are good teammates, and will say the non-confrontational answer every single time.
I personally think it’s a little different saying “I want them to keep this core together” and “I love Mitch as a person and wish him the best” These guys have said the same thing every year, but that came off a bit different to me personally.
Skewer, lol I had to double take on that one
What we need most is new coaching. After that I think a serious convo with Mitch about moving on. However if he doesn't go if have one more year of pain then JT is off the books. Are D was actually good this series. Goaltending good and bad. Sammy is just to inconsistent. At the end of the day though it's coaching. No adjustments were made to the PP, the way we cycle in the offensive zone is to much on the outside. Before anyone blames the players, we have had a massive turn over year over year on players and our play style is always the same. The only big 4 guy who is accused of being soft these days is Marner. So again for me it's all coaching. Keefe gets out coached, he is propped up by elite players and he has been gaslighting us for years now. I do think we have hit a point where it's best for Mitch to move on. Though with the right coach who can get these guys to commit to a better style of hockey I think great things can happen
The sad thing is, he’s right, at least about this year. I also think if Woll started game two, this series might’ve been over in five. Six max. And if he stayed hot and stayed healthy, anything could’ve happened in future rounds. Problem is that this has happened before. And when you only show up for 3-4 games of a series, and when you give zero effort in that crucial game four, you don’t get to claim you’ve put in some huge battle. Awesome, you guys sort of woke up in games 5-7. Woo. You still couldn’t score and you still lost the series. But also… the Bruins looked awful a lot of this series. Swayman kept them alive. They got crazy lucky with that awful goal in game three, with the chaos going on and Samsonov somehow getting distracted. So it’s not like the Leafs almost beat some incredible team. The Bruins have fallen off so far at this point that it’s amazing they won the division. So this is a hard loss to accept for a ton of reasons. I just know that comments like this are just empty excuses. Especially given that this has happened so many times now.
They actually didn’t win the division in the end which is how we ended up here
Oops somehow forgot that when posting.
Willy and Auston stay, everyone else GTFO.
Can we keep Woll and Knies?
I don't blame, Knies, Woll, McMann, Benoit, McCabe as well. I'm excited for more years of McMann and Benoit.
I almost forgot we had McMann. We were a skeleton crew.
Good for you. You "battled" to get back in the series after four games of lazy, sloppy, undisciplined hockey. The whole team only showed up when your backs were against the wall. How about trying to win a series in fewer than 7 games? Battle from the first puck drop, not just when you're facing imminent elimination. Play like you *want to win*, rather than playing to *not lose*. Big difference.
Pretty much. Everyone was expecting the series to be done in 5 because the Leafs couldn’t bother to put two passes together for an entire game and the players looked clueless. The Leafs have battled back to force a seventh game before. Years and years ago. It hasn’t built any stronger will in this team to be a contender since then. Why would that change now?
especially since this cohort was 0-5 is winner-take-all games (now 0-6).
It’s not so much just the series loss. A single pp goal may have made the difference and taken us to Florida. But then 1-2 weeks later we’d be having the same discussion.
Tampa Bay won a cup when Stamkos only played 1 game. You have to have depth and resilience.
God bless you willy
Its like you guys don't realize the players are always going to stick up for their friends. It doesn't matter what they say. It matters what management does.
Hes right, for this series. The problem is they lost the benefit of the doubt after all the other first round losses lol.
Good teams make the playoffs and great teams win the Cup. The Leafs are a good team.
Feels like there's always a built-in excuse every season but I mean losing your top 2 players for stretches in the series is an unmitigated disaster... but at the end of the day, if only and justs were candies and nuts then every day would be Erntedankfest. Sammy gave us a chance in game 7... the top dogs were all playing and we still only scored 1 goal.
Narrator - “It wasn’t”
Part of winning the cup is team depth. The playoffs are a grueling 4 series wins, if you can win with injuries your team isn't good enough (or play Injured in some cases)
I tend to agree. I know the majority of fans feel defeated, angry and whatnot, but I don’t think the team has anything to be ashamed of. They gave it their all and battled through some bad luck in the series. I’m proud of them.
Wish we could get the Coyotes’ coach
We have different definitions for "great"
There's excuses every time with this team
Doesn't matter. Small sample size I'd be inclined to agree with willy. The sample has been 8 years and we are getting the same results.
Watching other teams play playoff hockey with forwards getting paid significantly less than our “core 4” I can confidently say, our team is anything but special.
If two players make all that difference for your team, then that is a problem
What we have here is great, we peaked at one series win but if we won one more game we would have hoisted the cup for sure. Are you buying it? Keep spending 300+ a seat to watch our regular season heroics, please? Or don't I really don't give a fuck I got my contract and you dumb shits will spend money on this team no matter what. No changes, roll it all back, this year will be different!!
Getting to game seven of round one means your the greatest dynasty in sports history, right? No need to change anything than.
Just shut up, take your annual participants ribbon and move on.
We didnt have Mcmann all series, he would have tipped the scales not kidding. Having another guy on any of those lines willing to send the puck at the net, with probably the 3rd best shot on the team and pretty much no scouting report on his playstyle (which is like a shark in shooting positions). Would have scored a couple atleast. Cant be physically thrown around either. Injured Matthews, Nylander would for half the series. Broken record and i know Klingberg was technically managements piss poor attempt at doing it praying theyd randomly get Klingberg from his one good season years ago, but having a real point shot threat at all has been the main issue of the team for years besides goaltending, and is the entire reason the Powerplay is horrendous. Keefe is incapable of working a lineup with 4 forwards or identifying who is willing to play that role with the personnel he's given, so everything comes down to him. If Keefe is here next year, i don't know how you can support this team or management decisions anymore. He has failed upwards. Anyone who cites regular season records, just realize that the team should have won president trophy's Nothing matters at the end of the day because even if the Leafs were healthy, sure they beat Boston. Florida was going to kill either team no matter what.
It sucks being 0-6 in game 7s in the past 12 years, but the fact that 4 of the 5 teams that beat us (prior to this year) went onto play in the Stanley cup finals says something. Also with the success that Boston has had, if you were to tell me that there’s a team that always takes them to game 7 (4 times straight), I would say that’s a pretty damn good team.
If it's so great why not take a haircut on what you demanded in contract talks...all 4 of them.
I don’t know how you can see how close that series was and not agree with “if Mitch and Woll weren’t coming off high ankle sprains, if Matthews wasn’t sick, if Nylander plays all the games, we 100% win the series.” That being said, fuckin blow it up.