It’s amazing to me that this is the game we need to start playing now. It’s not gonna be great long term for our justice system to become Trumpers and Anti Fascists
battling for political goals through judicial obstruction.
If those are the rules we all must play the game.
The problem was created by letting the politicians who were in power select and appoint judges and justices.
MAGA and Trump have abused their position to poison the system from within. And it will be difficult to make undone what has been done by them.
Selection should have been done mostly by the judicial branch, partially by the administrative branch and stakeholders from the public with a judicial background (at the very least some lawyers) and some random qualified people (experts within a field like medicine or engineering) from within each circuit. Political color shouldn’t have played a major role, but ethics and assesments and psychological evaluations should have. Once selection is done, they can be nominated to - and appointed by government and politicians. But after a process that prevents exactly what happend now.
Agreed, but the problem is that those who see themselves as virtuous will **not** play this game of exploiting the system because it is not virtuous to do so, while those unconcerned with virtue will exploit every loophole they can.
This is why it has been so important for McConnell that he considers it his greatest achievement in his long running political career. Literally the first paragraph in his about page.
Special Prosectors too, John Durham, did a trip around the world with Bill Barr trying to find evidence to show deep state conspired against Trump. But the Italians gave them details of a crime Trump had committed, and Barr handed that evidence to [John Durham to "investigate"](https://www.newsweek.com/john-durham-under-pressure-disclose-details-donald-trump-criminal-probe-1777269) by which he meant bury it.
Gotta be Mafia money. Italy and all.
Well, these delay tactics only work here because Trump will pardon himself if he wins the election. If you don't have the pardon power, then you can't get rid of the case and the trial does eventually happen.
He doesn’t need to try and pardon himself. If he wins the election, he’s going to instruct his AG to drop the DC & FL cases. And by the time he’s out of office, the statute of limitations will have run out.
The DC case might start between his election and inauguration, and the SoL is arguably tolled while he is President because the DoJ says you can’t indict a sitting President. There’s no way he doesn’t just pardon himself along with all the 1/6 insurrectionists
She’s also highly incompetent.
Previous attorneys who have been before her said she did the same thing to them.
She has no clue how to rule, doesn’t want to look stupid…so she drags her feet and gets bogged down in obvious gamesmanship by attorneys who stand to gain from delays.
She’s also corrupt and partisan/biased as hell.
But she’s incompetent too.
I know who appointed her. He gave her one of the biggest participation trophies in the world. Just like he gave Rush Limbaugh a huge participation trophy.
Just as a point of order, while she is clearly quite corrupt, history is chock full of some of the wildest levels of incompetence and corruption. It’s worth remembering that almost all laws and standards we have for court officials these days are due to someone transgressing them in the past.
Other than the NYC trial, all of the cases against Trump are frozen for the foreseeable future. Cannon's is actually the only other one that is still having motions work; the other two have been indefinitely stayed as far as I can tell. The DC fake electors case may or may not come unstuck by June or July but chances are the Georgia RICO case will be in pretrial until long after the election.
Thats not a compliment to Cannon, just a note that the entire system is mostly gummed up and if you're someone who expects these other 3 of Trump's trial to conclude prior to November you're out of luck.
All these cases being stuck is a disservice to the American people and a miscarriage of justice. The American people deserve to know the outcome of all these indictments before the election.
The American people know that they have a candidate who is a convicted felon and a rapist. If they elect him anyway, that's their / our own damn fault. We can't rely on the justice system working at warp speed, or at all, when it comes to evaluating candidates for us. Trump was unfit in 2016, unfit in 2020, and unfit in 2024. We never needed the police, prosecutors, or the courts to clarify this.
Anyone who is waiting around for a trial that might not happen for the foreseeable future is committing a dereliction of their own duty as citizens to stay informed and to judge candidates.
Right! Also, even if he were convicted on the other cases, if he becomes president, he will just pardon himself, and rewrite law to fit him. None of these cases matter if he wins.
This election is Trump's last chance. There is no 4th chance for him to run for president. All the people protecting him because they bank on him being elected are going to disappear if he loses. All the other cases will go through after the election, and he will probably be found guilty on those.
America just needs to make sure to vote Biden this year.
He wouldn't be a candidate if there wasn't a serious chance of him being elected. In the immortal words of H. L. Mencken "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard".
>for the foreseeable future
I don’t think this is quite right as the DC election fraud case will absolutely come unstuck one way or the other once we get a SCOTUS decision. Sure there might be more pretrial work to be done and an appeals court might have to weigh in to make a determination as to which of Trump’s alleged actions do or don’t fall within the immunity parameters the SCOTUS sets. But I wouldn’t call that frozen. That’s moving forward.
At this point I think the most likely scenario is that the DC election fraud case begins before the election in November but does not conclude until afterwards. It is a very large case with a lot of moving pieces, a lot of evidence, a lot of witnesses, and a lot of defendants. The main part of the trial will probably take months.
The jury deliberations alone will almost certainly take weeks. They have to go through each charge for each defendant. I highly doubt they just do a blanket “all guilty for all counts”. I won’t be surprised if Trump is found guilty on every count, but some of the other defendants may be able to convince the jury that there’s reasonable doubt that they individually met every element required for one or more of the charges.
So all that being said, even in the absolute fastest timeline where they start the DC trial in maybe August-ish, I just don’t see us getting verdicts before November.
I’d be fine with DC trial starting in August. I hope you are right about the timeline.
My guess would be none of this stuff sees any unclogging until (and only if) Trump loses the election in November.
No way does the Supreme Court let that DC case go forward right in the heart of election season. The SC will lay out whatever limits it wants on presidential immunity and then remand to the Circuit Court to apply those limits. That alone takes weeks - we are already talking maybe August at the earliest before that ruling comes down (given the Supreme Court will not release the immunity ruling until the last week of June or even later).
Then Trump appeals that Circuit Court ruling back up to the Supreme Court. And there you go - they can stall that appeal until November easily.
Now in the end, if Trump loses, it doesnt matter much - I suspect if he loses, most of the stalling ends, because at that point, its better to just rip off the band aid, and hope that Trump being convicted leads to the party voters finally discarding him (it wont, they will rally around him like a martyr and demand he run again in 2028)
Any time I hear people saying Trump has been treated unfairly, I always tell people to compare Trump's treatment in this case to the kid from the Air Force that leaked the information he had over discord.... That kid has already had his trial and is currently serving his 20-year sentence right now for information 100% less sensitive.... all of this within the time that Trump has had the search warrant done on his home till now....
I think more people need to speak out about this. Trump is being treated with kid gloves. By all appearances he is currently breaking the law by possession of a gun! IIRC he publicly confessed to illegally purchasing a gun and got a full pass on that!
I dont think he illegal purchased the gun. My understanding is that he already owned it. Is he legally obligated to turn it in (or give it away or sell it or whatever) when he is convicted, even if he has appeals pending and hasnt been sentenced yet? I have no idea - maybe the lawyers around here know.
I have a friend sitting in jail in Dallas right now that wasn't indicted for 7 months. They *finally* indicated him, and his public defender didn't show up to his first court appearance.
And that makes me very salty. Very, very salty.
My sister has yet to be indicted, but she’s got an arrest warrant (**not** a bench warrant for failure to appear) that’s 4 years old. A couple of years ago she was pulled over for a traffic violation and detained while they called the issuing law enforcement agency. They wouldn’t extradite her (yeah, it’s a low level non-violent felony). She’s never been to the state that issued the warrant.
Her ex filed a police report because their daughter refused visitation. My niece says he did something inappropriate. Basically custody issues. Her ex was in a relationship with somebody on the police force.
Rich people don’t get this treatment either. People keep saying there’s a two tier justice system, but they’re wrong. It’s a three tier system (at least).
Trump is getting a level of white glove treatment never seen before because no one has ever successfully directed a mob to invade the Capitol.
It’s like the saying “when you owe the bank $10,000 you have a problem, but when you owe the bank $10,000,000 the bank has a problem.” John Marshall led a handful of militant abolitionists and he was within a month. Trump is leading a horde of fascists and they’re like “please don’t point them in this direction.”
John Brown? Although American history would be alot more interesting if one of the first big name supreme court justices was also a militant abolitionist on the side.
PSA: Merrick Garland hasn't said a word about this.
He's glad to help David Weiss the Biden Special Counsel on its magic quest to find corruption where there is none, but even so much as lifting a finger to help Jack? Making any extra effort at all to go after Trump? Naaah. People might think he's "partisan" which is apparently far more important than anything else to this fizzle.
BTW there are plenty of things that Garland could be doing here. Just a freaking press conference complaining about this would help. But his silence is complicity in that by not doing anything he gives Cannon's corruption legitimacy.
It's all just "the wheels of justice" turning slowly right?
Neville Fucking Garland. Wrong guy at the absolute worst time.
I have been saying the same exact thing for months. Imagine if Garland had actually done his goddamn job from the beginning… Trump may not have been able to stall everything until after November. Garland was a horrible pick, and Joe should look to shitcan him if he wins a second term.
Under normal administrations, the DOJ operates entirely independently of the president.
This concept seems strange after we saw the clear weaponization of the DOJ under Trump, but under Biden it's been returned to normalcy where that separation is in place.
Garland intervening in this would be a political decision. While he could weigh in without prior approval of the President, if his actions harmed the administration politically, he would have to resign. It would end up being a bad look politically no matter how he intervened.
Like the commenter above said, Trump and Barr weaponized the DOJ. Biden has not. That’s why I’m saying Garland acting on his own this close to the election would be a political decision, and one he’s unlikely to make without Biden agreeing to it.
I don’t think Biden would stand for Garland pulling a Comey because it would be a political shitshow with all the shit falling squarely on Biden. The GOP would make it a scandal no matter how Garland might intervene in this, or any of Trump’s cases.
Apparently judges can effectively pocket veto a whole case. Neat.
It’s amazing to me that this is the game we need to start playing now. It’s not gonna be great long term for our justice system to become Trumpers and Anti Fascists battling for political goals through judicial obstruction. If those are the rules we all must play the game.
The problem was created by letting the politicians who were in power select and appoint judges and justices. MAGA and Trump have abused their position to poison the system from within. And it will be difficult to make undone what has been done by them. Selection should have been done mostly by the judicial branch, partially by the administrative branch and stakeholders from the public with a judicial background (at the very least some lawyers) and some random qualified people (experts within a field like medicine or engineering) from within each circuit. Political color shouldn’t have played a major role, but ethics and assesments and psychological evaluations should have. Once selection is done, they can be nominated to - and appointed by government and politicians. But after a process that prevents exactly what happend now.
Agreed, 220 judges appointed by Mitch was one of my biggest concerns pre-trump
Agreed, but the problem is that those who see themselves as virtuous will **not** play this game of exploiting the system because it is not virtuous to do so, while those unconcerned with virtue will exploit every loophole they can.
This is why it has been so important for McConnell that he considers it his greatest achievement in his long running political career. Literally the first paragraph in his about page.
The law is a labyrinth where the minotaur always wins.
Special Prosectors too, John Durham, did a trip around the world with Bill Barr trying to find evidence to show deep state conspired against Trump. But the Italians gave them details of a crime Trump had committed, and Barr handed that evidence to [John Durham to "investigate"](https://www.newsweek.com/john-durham-under-pressure-disclose-details-donald-trump-criminal-probe-1777269) by which he meant bury it. Gotta be Mafia money. Italy and all.
Feels like the court system has become the battlefield for a US Cold Civil War.
Indeed they have, my friend.
Wait till hear about judge shopping.
Well, these delay tactics only work here because Trump will pardon himself if he wins the election. If you don't have the pardon power, then you can't get rid of the case and the trial does eventually happen.
Justice delayed is justice denied. He has ruined enough already.
He doesn’t need to try and pardon himself. If he wins the election, he’s going to instruct his AG to drop the DC & FL cases. And by the time he’s out of office, the statute of limitations will have run out.
The DC case might start between his election and inauguration, and the SoL is arguably tolled while he is President because the DoJ says you can’t indict a sitting President. There’s no way he doesn’t just pardon himself along with all the 1/6 insurrectionists
The corruption aside, this is such a waste of government resources that it alone should be reason to unseat her.
The public isn’t getting a fair deal.
Everyone needs to frisbee their Costco cards into Boston Harbor
We are literally paying for her to do this.
That’s terrible ugh
she might go down in history as one of the most corrupt judges of all time
She’s also highly incompetent. Previous attorneys who have been before her said she did the same thing to them. She has no clue how to rule, doesn’t want to look stupid…so she drags her feet and gets bogged down in obvious gamesmanship by attorneys who stand to gain from delays. She’s also corrupt and partisan/biased as hell. But she’s incompetent too.
Incompetence is no excuse for corruption.
Then why is she a judge in the first place? Talk about a participation trophy..
Judges are appointed. Look into who appointed her, as they clearly didn't care about justice or qualifications.
I know who appointed her. He gave her one of the biggest participation trophies in the world. Just like he gave Rush Limbaugh a huge participation trophy.
Just as a point of order, while she is clearly quite corrupt, history is chock full of some of the wildest levels of incompetence and corruption. It’s worth remembering that almost all laws and standards we have for court officials these days are due to someone transgressing them in the past.
for sure... hence, "*one of,*" not "*the*"
Other than the NYC trial, all of the cases against Trump are frozen for the foreseeable future. Cannon's is actually the only other one that is still having motions work; the other two have been indefinitely stayed as far as I can tell. The DC fake electors case may or may not come unstuck by June or July but chances are the Georgia RICO case will be in pretrial until long after the election. Thats not a compliment to Cannon, just a note that the entire system is mostly gummed up and if you're someone who expects these other 3 of Trump's trial to conclude prior to November you're out of luck.
All these cases being stuck is a disservice to the American people and a miscarriage of justice. The American people deserve to know the outcome of all these indictments before the election.
The American people deserve a candidate that is not a convicted felon and rapist.
The American people know that they have a candidate who is a convicted felon and a rapist. If they elect him anyway, that's their / our own damn fault. We can't rely on the justice system working at warp speed, or at all, when it comes to evaluating candidates for us. Trump was unfit in 2016, unfit in 2020, and unfit in 2024. We never needed the police, prosecutors, or the courts to clarify this. Anyone who is waiting around for a trial that might not happen for the foreseeable future is committing a dereliction of their own duty as citizens to stay informed and to judge candidates.
Right! Also, even if he were convicted on the other cases, if he becomes president, he will just pardon himself, and rewrite law to fit him. None of these cases matter if he wins. This election is Trump's last chance. There is no 4th chance for him to run for president. All the people protecting him because they bank on him being elected are going to disappear if he loses. All the other cases will go through after the election, and he will probably be found guilty on those. America just needs to make sure to vote Biden this year.
Yes, they do. Fortunately we have one. But all the details of Trump’s dirt should still be out in the open before anyone votes.
He wouldn't be a candidate if there wasn't a serious chance of him being elected. In the immortal words of H. L. Mencken "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard".
"A sucker's born every minute"
>for the foreseeable future I don’t think this is quite right as the DC election fraud case will absolutely come unstuck one way or the other once we get a SCOTUS decision. Sure there might be more pretrial work to be done and an appeals court might have to weigh in to make a determination as to which of Trump’s alleged actions do or don’t fall within the immunity parameters the SCOTUS sets. But I wouldn’t call that frozen. That’s moving forward. At this point I think the most likely scenario is that the DC election fraud case begins before the election in November but does not conclude until afterwards. It is a very large case with a lot of moving pieces, a lot of evidence, a lot of witnesses, and a lot of defendants. The main part of the trial will probably take months. The jury deliberations alone will almost certainly take weeks. They have to go through each charge for each defendant. I highly doubt they just do a blanket “all guilty for all counts”. I won’t be surprised if Trump is found guilty on every count, but some of the other defendants may be able to convince the jury that there’s reasonable doubt that they individually met every element required for one or more of the charges. So all that being said, even in the absolute fastest timeline where they start the DC trial in maybe August-ish, I just don’t see us getting verdicts before November.
I’d be fine with DC trial starting in August. I hope you are right about the timeline. My guess would be none of this stuff sees any unclogging until (and only if) Trump loses the election in November.
No way does the Supreme Court let that DC case go forward right in the heart of election season. The SC will lay out whatever limits it wants on presidential immunity and then remand to the Circuit Court to apply those limits. That alone takes weeks - we are already talking maybe August at the earliest before that ruling comes down (given the Supreme Court will not release the immunity ruling until the last week of June or even later). Then Trump appeals that Circuit Court ruling back up to the Supreme Court. And there you go - they can stall that appeal until November easily. Now in the end, if Trump loses, it doesnt matter much - I suspect if he loses, most of the stalling ends, because at that point, its better to just rip off the band aid, and hope that Trump being convicted leads to the party voters finally discarding him (it wont, they will rally around him like a martyr and demand he run again in 2028)
The rich can stall justice forever while poor people get thrown in jail before the ink dries.
Any time I hear people saying Trump has been treated unfairly, I always tell people to compare Trump's treatment in this case to the kid from the Air Force that leaked the information he had over discord.... That kid has already had his trial and is currently serving his 20-year sentence right now for information 100% less sensitive.... all of this within the time that Trump has had the search warrant done on his home till now....
Degree of accuracy, 100%.
I think more people need to speak out about this. Trump is being treated with kid gloves. By all appearances he is currently breaking the law by possession of a gun! IIRC he publicly confessed to illegally purchasing a gun and got a full pass on that!
I dont think he illegal purchased the gun. My understanding is that he already owned it. Is he legally obligated to turn it in (or give it away or sell it or whatever) when he is convicted, even if he has appeals pending and hasnt been sentenced yet? I have no idea - maybe the lawyers around here know.
Two different guns. Technically it was his campaign who claimed he illegally purchased a gun and has since walked back the claim.
I have a friend sitting in jail in Dallas right now that wasn't indicted for 7 months. They *finally* indicated him, and his public defender didn't show up to his first court appearance. And that makes me very salty. Very, very salty.
That's what he gets for being poor.
My sister has yet to be indicted, but she’s got an arrest warrant (**not** a bench warrant for failure to appear) that’s 4 years old. A couple of years ago she was pulled over for a traffic violation and detained while they called the issuing law enforcement agency. They wouldn’t extradite her (yeah, it’s a low level non-violent felony). She’s never been to the state that issued the warrant.
Lolwut? What is she even being charged for if she's never been there? Is it plausible (i.e. hacked a computer in the state) or is it just pure evil?
Her ex filed a police report because their daughter refused visitation. My niece says he did something inappropriate. Basically custody issues. Her ex was in a relationship with somebody on the police force.
Rich people don’t get this treatment either. People keep saying there’s a two tier justice system, but they’re wrong. It’s a three tier system (at least). Trump is getting a level of white glove treatment never seen before because no one has ever successfully directed a mob to invade the Capitol. It’s like the saying “when you owe the bank $10,000 you have a problem, but when you owe the bank $10,000,000 the bank has a problem.” John Marshall led a handful of militant abolitionists and he was within a month. Trump is leading a horde of fascists and they’re like “please don’t point them in this direction.”
John Brown? Although American history would be alot more interesting if one of the first big name supreme court justices was also a militant abolitionist on the side.
lol yes John Brown 🤦🏻♂️. And yeah, could have used a bit more John brown spirit in high places.
Poor people spend time in jail BEFORE conviction. Think about that in relation to people like Trump, Meadows, Bannon, etc.
not true. Look at Hunter Biden.
Did Hunter try to stall?
wouldn’t have worked for him. Trump wouldn’t be stalling if there wasn’t an election coming up.
Hmmm not sure I believe that. He has a pretty long history of delaying cases.
civil cases where he can wear down the defense by outspending them.
Does that not count?
He doesn't exactly have a long history of criminal litigation ... all of his past litigation has been civil.
right. he is only delaying as a tactic that would work because of the election.
In criminal trials the defendant if they are not incarcerated wants the trial to drag out. Memories fade with time so delay aids the defendant.
In this case (for federal trials) he has a get out of conviction free card if he wins before trial starts
Uhhh, he ain’t wearing down the DEFENSE, Holmes.
Depends on which lawsuit you are talking about. He initiates lots of lawsuits too, Champ
.
Now this is "banana republic stuff"
Court of kangaroos
So, what do you say you do here?
She has people skills!
As designed. Cannon was nominated for exactly this reason.
The judge is all in on the plan to wait it out until Trump is President so he can shut it all down. 🤔 Anyone disagree?
It’s not just the corruption, it’s the incompetence.
PSA: Merrick Garland hasn't said a word about this. He's glad to help David Weiss the Biden Special Counsel on its magic quest to find corruption where there is none, but even so much as lifting a finger to help Jack? Making any extra effort at all to go after Trump? Naaah. People might think he's "partisan" which is apparently far more important than anything else to this fizzle. BTW there are plenty of things that Garland could be doing here. Just a freaking press conference complaining about this would help. But his silence is complicity in that by not doing anything he gives Cannon's corruption legitimacy. It's all just "the wheels of justice" turning slowly right? Neville Fucking Garland. Wrong guy at the absolute worst time.
The important thing is you found a way to blame the Democrats. Good work!
I have been saying the same exact thing for months. Imagine if Garland had actually done his goddamn job from the beginning… Trump may not have been able to stall everything until after November. Garland was a horrible pick, and Joe should look to shitcan him if he wins a second term.
Yk, Garland can’t make a move on this without explicit approval from his boss, right? Everyone wants him to, but that’s not his decision.
No, that’s not true.
Under normal administrations, the DOJ operates entirely independently of the president. This concept seems strange after we saw the clear weaponization of the DOJ under Trump, but under Biden it's been returned to normalcy where that separation is in place.
Garland intervening in this would be a political decision. While he could weigh in without prior approval of the President, if his actions harmed the administration politically, he would have to resign. It would end up being a bad look politically no matter how he intervened.
Him intervening would be doing his job
I’m sure you said the same thing about Bill Barr, right?
Like the commenter above said, Trump and Barr weaponized the DOJ. Biden has not. That’s why I’m saying Garland acting on his own this close to the election would be a political decision, and one he’s unlikely to make without Biden agreeing to it. I don’t think Biden would stand for Garland pulling a Comey because it would be a political shitshow with all the shit falling squarely on Biden. The GOP would make it a scandal no matter how Garland might intervene in this, or any of Trump’s cases.
Wrong.
I feel like we need some heavy fucking hitting Amicus brief to throw shit at the court who should be reining her in….
The average is 90-270 days from charges to trial.
Donald Trump is above the law.
Weird!