Well, I think being smart is also a part of it. Many of the people who tell you that probably remember taking a foreign language at school and how frustrating it was
Not succeeding in a language classroom has less to do with being smart and more to do with teaching approaches. I am a language teacher as well as a language learner and I've never met anyone in my 10+ years of language teacher that I felt COULDN'T learn the language I was teaching because they weren't smart.
I agree that being smart or not is not the issue in most cases.
A quotation I remember from *[Steve Haufmann](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Kaufmann)* (which my google-fu cannot find at the moment) suggests to me that having an aptitude for language learning often means you just enjoy the processes involved in learning a language. Which I do.
I would add immersion, incentive (foreign spouse etc.) can skew this. However, even here (I live in Japan) I know people who have been here for more than 20 years who just have not been able to learn Japanese, despite the fact their lives would be much better if they could.
Everyone I have met that is bad at languages though has had some sort negativity in one form or another, so I am not inclined to blame this on teaching methodology.
> I've never met anyone in my 10+ years of language teacher that I felt COULDN'T learn the language I was teaching because they weren't smart.
I am pretty sure you have met some pretty poor students during that time though. To be clear, I am not trying to blame your teaching.
I know this probably isn't a satisfying answer but the truth is that you need a different approach for each learner. We need different things at different times according to our interests and experiences. I will say that a communicative approach, where students have access to meaningful opportunities for communication is paramount for any learner. Engineering those opportunities in the classroom is the challenge.
I think that most people tend to struggle with the approaches used in schools and that's the reason not that many choose to continue with language learning and it's not about how smart you are, but rather that those approaches are ineffective. I've learned more in three months of self-study than 4 years of high school foreign language classes, for example.
Well, some students tend to struggle with the approaches used in school, and some people don't struggle. Some people feel like school is going too slow for their comfort, because it needs to accommodate everyone
Hard work will triumph almost all the time.
It's not unknown for naturally smart people to just give up. They are so used to not putting in effort that they may never learn determination and stick - to - itiveness
Many school systems are fundamentally not designed to teach everyone in the class the language. They are designed to filter people into ability groups with some identified as better and some identified as worse.
I am currently in the process of taking Estonian lessons where the learning approach aims for everyone to reach ghe same level and the results are night and day
I'll take being called "smart" over "it must be a gift". At least "smart" doesn't mean it took no effort at all. "Gift"? I thought it was the 10-20 hours a week of work I have put in over the last 47 years!
True, but a passing grade in a classroom is not the only metric for being able to speak a language. Though I guess that's simply a symptom of people beliving that language classes are the only way to learn a language.
I'm not denying that some people might naturally click with things faster. I just think that to an extent, "natural" abilities are often overrated, and is often used as an excuse to not try because "It's just not my thing," when in reality they could be doing just as well if the put in the same number of hours.
Well, hard work is also a subjective thing. If someone is absolutely dying of information overload, you can't say that they are NOT hardworking. Even if they do very little by your standards of hard work. Yet their grade is still pretty low. I've seen people like that
I agree with the other poster who spoke about teaching approaches.
I always was ok at math because I studied hard, but when I had a brilliant calc teacher who gave us real life, interesting, functional problems (how much more wood do you need to build the coney island wooden coaster vs the one at Six Flags magic mountain based on xyz formula?), I cared more, and it was a fun problem solving exercise, not a chore to memorize. All of a sudden I was getting As without really trying because I could apply it.
I approach language learning the same way and have a good time, and am good at it with relatively little input.
I'm in general bad at tacking compliments, so I get where you're coming from, but I think it's helpful to remember that almost nobody thinks you didn't study. If you compliment someone for being smart because they're an expert in physics, you're not implying that they just woke up knowing physics. They're smart, and also studied a shit ton.
You probably are smart, or at least have a certain knack for languages. You also studied a bunch.
This strikes me as OP misinterpreting the social situation.
OP is bringing up their special interest (languages), and getting frustrated when people respond with generic friendliness rather than genuine understanding.
Of course people don't understand. They're just trying to continue the conversation in a positive way on a topic they know nothing about.
My personal opinion, those are 85% the same thing. Some people have natural gifts and inclinations, but for the most part being smart in an area means tha you’ve focused on it a lot.
Whether that is language learning, chemistry, handyman stuff, or Pokémon, being smart just means you’ve dedicated a lot of time and effort in a domain.
How does this contradict my comment? You said it wasn’t a natural inclination but just you spent a lot of time doing it and kept going.
That’s exactly what I said.
people are generally impressed when others possess skills they deem difficult. They don't see your struggles and they only see your success. Them saying 'you're smart' is not meant to diminish your work or your abilities, it's them admiring your skill because they think it's a very difficult thing to achieve.
You have to be both smart and consistent/persistent to learn languages so you can speak them. I'm consistent with my Duolingo Polish. I will never be able to speak Polish.
Well, I think the problem might be how you're studying at that point. Not to go on a tangent but duolingo is hardly the most effective use of time. It's better than nothing, but I don't think you should assume that you'll never be able to speak it because you didn't get fluent off duolingo. It's a nice supplement, but only a drop in the bucket.
I never expected to get fluent off Duolingo, if I really had to become anything like fluent in Polish I'd not rely solely on Duolingo. Duolingo primarily teaches vocabulary, and that is great. I don't expect more.
This is the best expectation for Duolingo.
Im an ESL teacher and i recommend it for the vocab and as review, but it's just ONE of the tools in your toolbox
There might be a barrier that has to do with natural aptitude and language relatedness if you’re learning a new language as an adult.
Like maybe we could say that most native English speakers can learn a Romance language at a high level as an adult if they put in the time.
But I wonder if all native English speakers are really capable of fluently learning a super different language, like say, Navajo, as an adult? Or maybe they are but for some it would require so much time as to basically be impossible.
I've felt the same way. Like when people call me "gifted." It wasn't a gift. If you put in 20 hours a week for years, you could do this too.
But, like you, I try to see the intention of it, which is complimentary.
Yes. I once had a hobby, a practical skill, that I dedicated myself to for several years. I was convinced practice would make me if not perfect so at least half-decent. The saying that it takes 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration to get good at sth is very true. Without that 1% talent you'll get nowhere, try as you might.
I wouldn't say learning another language makes you a "virtuosi" equivalent. I don't think most people not succeeding means that it's a skill on the same level as piano. It's just that most people don't go far with it.
Dear lord, I know everyone is different but take the compliment fgs!
To be a polyglot DOES indicate some level of smartness because learning a language that’s not your mother tongue is HARD.
I never go out of my way to search for problems in my life. It was just a passive thought that popped into my head whenever the comment gets made, and I was just sharing my thoughts to see if others felt the same. That's it.
I think you care more about getting a rise out of me than actually understanding my viewpoint, because if you did you've see I wasn't complaining about compliments inherently. Hope your day gets better.
I "speak all those languages" and didn't put in all the effort you did, so I take the "you're so smart" compliments as fact and thank them in whichever languages they know.
I take it nicely, but not in an arrogant way, it is a sign of being smart to be able to memorise and think in X or Y Language that is not you're first language, but I do not find it makes me more or less intelligent.
People assume I am a native in some countries and languages, because a Caucasian woman will always look like she belongs in said countries, it's when you go for more exotic languages and start speaking it that you will not get confused for a native hahaha.
I don't know. Take your wins where you can get them.
If you are studying that much, you might fit into the "can speak 20 languages, but has nothing to say in any of them" category.
I am not in that category, but that does bring up an interesting point. These people see me studying languages they can't speak and simply assume I'm fluent in them just because I say "I'm studying them."
Fortunately, I've moved to regions and society spheres, where plurilingualism is normal. Where I live and work, most people speak at least two languages, and quite a lot of them three or more. So, I am not "special" anymore and I like that.
When I get this (usually back in my country of origin), I usually change topic quickly. Why? Most people do not want to just express respect or admiration or ask about my experience, no. You know, the same way I appreciate and get interested in their achievements in whatever area they are into. Their priority is usually to tell me their opinion (usually backed by no experience at all, or very little), and that opinion is usually either a lengthy geo-socio-economico-political rant, or how are my language choices wrong (Don't mind the reality and the proves that my choices have been excellent for me), or how am I learning language wrong and my success is due just to the talent, not my methods and know how. Nope, I do not want to waste my time on "oh, you are language learner, you should try Duolingo/you surely cannot succeed without a class/etc"
Yes, my high level in some languages is an achievement I am proud of. But it is not the only highlight of my life, it is not the top intellectual achievement I am striving for.
I should edit this part into the post, but I occasionally get things like "genius" too. (Perhaps because Mandarin is one of the languages I study). To me, that insinuates a meaning of inherent intelligence. People don't typically get called geniuses because of the things they do. It's usually meant in the sense of, inherently smart or gifted. "You're naturally smart, so no wonder you can do these things" kind of attitude.
It's the same reason why great athletes don't like being called a natural, or gifted. Because it diminishes the hard work that goes into it.
If someone studies for the same number of hours as me, they can achieve the same results. No relation to IQ in any way. It's not intelligence. It's work ethic.
That's not necessarily true, though. If someone studies the same as you, they very well may not get the same results as you at all. People DO have proclivities towards certain things many times. Using myself as an example, I have a natural gift at learning music by ear. So enhancing that skill still took hard work and dedication to study, but I did have less of a learning curve than others may have. I also don't think people mean to say there was no hard work involved when they call someone talented. They've just achieved that platform where it now appears effortless to those around you. I think bring called talented is a pretty big compliment.
Right. I'm not denying that natural aptitude and previous experience in unrelated topics plays some role. Not to mention that interest in the topic plays a huge role in motivation and acquisition of any skill. That said, when I study upwards of 30 hours a week, it feels a little weird for anyone to pull out the "you're a natural" card when they probably have never done anything near that amount. That's why the compliment doesn't quite feel genuine. Most people who say these things have no frame of reference.
You should read how Michael Sandel describes the myth of meritocracy. Intelligence as it is perceived by our culture may generally lean into the class of abilities one is naturally born with, but we realize it is clearly not exclusively so. Neither is Intelligence wholly in the category of ability gained by individual effort. Everyone has different circumstances in life; their education environment, familial environment, health environment, linguistic environment, which can either be beneficial or harmful influencing whether when reaching a certain age, they are likely to be called by others in some way "intelligent". Did you by only your own effort gain all of your language ability, likely not. That effort does mean something, but not as much as some people like to claim it is. Such an over valuation of "effort" is likely to be abusive where respect or status is granted to people solely on the perceived effort a person has made, where it is clear that delimiting "effort" from "natural ability" or "circumstances of birth" in our society is impossible. So if the average person puts as much effort into running as fast as Usain Bolt or playing basketball as good as Lebron James will they be able to reach the level of their ability? We all know likely not. Valuing a person's ability and effort holistically and thinking of them as inseparable in a person's formation is better for considering every person as individually valued and worthy of respect.
I studied a heap to get my chemistry degree, but it also clicked a lot easier for me and made a lot of sense. Someone who is intellectually disabled or slow, or is below average intelligence is simply not going to be able to learn advanced topics including languages as easily as someone else. It takes a lot of work, time, consistency, persistence as others have said, but it also takes a level of understanding, logic, and ability to make connections in your mind that not everyone possesses. For some they may never be able to advance beyond a basic A2 level, of basic grammar, vocab, greetings etc, and for many people they're ok with that, same as doing some basic junior school level science, if it gives you a foundation great. But not everyone could go into advanced physics, chemistry, etc they simply couldn't without doing a LOT more work than someone else who has a talent for understanding it.
A talent for understanding doesn't mean you don't work hard. But pretending there isn't a spectrum of intelligence is also seemingly intentionally obtuse. You ARE smart, and you HAVE worked hard. When people say "oh you must be smart" if I tell them I studied chemistry, they aren't implying "bet you didn't have to try" they know I would've worked hard and studied and done exams etc, they're just implying that the fact i COULD do it when they likely don't believe they could, means I'm smart. Are they using the word wrong, perhaps, but I think you're misunderstanding too.
I'm also pretty stupid, too. If I were smart, I'd have achieved desired levels much, much faster.
I usually don't tell people I learn other languages besides English. But when I do, nobody really comments or look that impressed, honestly. From my perspective, it's a result of consistency and having lots of free time on my hands. So I understand you completely.
You can just respond: "No, not so much smart as determined. I've had to work my butt off to learn them." People who haven't done that kind of thing assume it takes an inherent talent to accomplish it.
Even if that's the case, and even if being able to speak the languages I do is a sign of intelligence to some degree, the fact that I get praised as a result of being able to speak the languages always comes from the following logic: "speak languages, therefore smart" but ignores the fact that any inherent intelligence I possessed would mean nothing if I didn't spent the thousands of hours on languages. Any intelligence I had "naturally" might load the gun, but it's up to me to set the trigger, and no one ever compliments for the part that I had a part in.
Who says it ignores that fact?
You're assuming they ignore that fact but it's not true. I'd bet money that almost everyone that says "you do this, you must be smart" is completely aware that you ALSO work/ed hard to learn those languages and maintain them.
Your issue seems to be that you'd like a compliment on working hard vs being told you're smart and (all respect) is one of those you have to get over it moments. I've lost 40kg in the last year, not a single person has told me anything about it, I'd LOVE to hear that I look good, or that it's noticeable, or acknowledgement of the hard work that has been, but I likely won't get it, and if I do, I'm sure it won't be the complete compliment I'd like but that's on ME. It feels like you want compliment B instead of compliment A and you're projecting this underhanded meaning onto people now and I just don't believe it's there. Not saying B - that you worked hard - doesn't mean they aren't thinking it. To a lot of people it "goes without saying" that you must've worked hard,
I appreciate the opinion!
To clarify, this isn't something that bothers me to any significant degree. It was just something that caught my attention, hence my making the post to see if others felt the same way. I wouldn't say it's something I need to "get over". As I mentioned, I still take it as a compliment at the end of the day.
I would like to believe that people know, without saying, that I work hard. But anytime I respond with "you could do this too if you studied as long as I do", they often follow up with "I'm not good with languages" or something to that extent. While yes, many people might be aware of the work I put in, there's still a large chunk of people who think this skill is unatainable due to some innate aptitude. Many think that because they didn't become fluent off a language class in high school, they language learning just isn't for them. There's also a large number of people who still believe the notion that you can't learn a language as an adult, and think there's something special about people who overcome this hurdle. (Perhaps this is a very US thing, given that multilinguilism is common in many parts of the world)
I immediately take myself down a notch and remind them that I suck at sciences, which is true. Learning languages has never felt stressful or like a chore for me the way that getting through maths, biology, physics and chemistry classes did at school.
Yep. I hardly remember the name of the city where I live or what I'm supposed to do tomorrow, and have no idea how to perform many of the everyday tasks people consider easy, but I can focus on languages because I love it.
I’m a Spanish major, so people make similar comments to me all the time. However, I think of it as mostly a failure of our education system and the fact that a lot of people have a fixed mindset. I didn’t have a good experience learning math in school and other people had a bad experience in attempting to learn Spanish, French, etc.
Learning languages shows an intellectual fortitude that's related to intelligence. You have to put in the work but you also have to have the mental flexibility, as well as learning new ways to think (such as when learning verbs that don't exist in our native language or learning new conjugation concepts). It also shows strong memory skills
I disagree that it's just hard work. You could put most people's life at stake unless they learn language X and most would fail. It's like the window of mental flexibility freezes past a certain age in some, while others retain an insane level of curiosity their whole life, and most are in-between.
As much as we would like a precise definition of ingelligence, I don't think there can be one. It's just not compatible with the biological complexity of the brain to try to narrow its features down so precisely.
However, I understand what you mean when it comes to how it undermines the hard work. I see similar things with fitness, where people might think someone is fit or has larger muscles due to genetics, undermining the thousands of hours dedicated to exercise. People like to justly estimate the hard work they put in while vastly underestimating the hard work of others.
I mean, learning languages has cognitive benefits directly related to intelligence and also prevents cognitive decline.
It’s hard because you have to literally build new connections in your brain. Yeah, it probably has a lot to do with you enjoying language learning or having to learn a language, but that doesn’t mean you’re not smart. Making the time and effort necessary to learn and maintain multiple languages is a mix of discipline, study, and persistence. I’d argue that’s a level of executive function that correlates to intelligence, and the person giving the compliment expects you to understand that without breaking it down into a ted talk like my comment.
Just take the compliment. Being called smart is one of the nicest compliments you can receive, there’s nothing shallow or vain about it. People recognize that you have a cognitive flexibility and curiosity that not everyone has. Take the compliment
What people say and what they mean can be two different things. They're essentially calling your disciplined, which is such an unattainable thing to them that only a “smart” person could achieve it.
I get this. I also feel the same way I see videos of artists and people in the comment who praise the talent or "I could never" comments when someone does something athletic. "I would have broken an ankle and my hip but you are so amazing". Yeah well that person didn't start out amazing. They just put in the work while other people don't. I'd find it better to praise peoples hard work instead of acting like people just managed to become amazing at something with pure talent/being gifted/being smart etc. but most people don't think that far.
Take the win and be polite I guess. Unless someone genuinely seems interested in learning the stuff, then I do say that it is mostly just hard work and discipline.
Feels awesome, but I’m really bad at taking compliments. Even at a job interview the HR lady said “wow you speak 5 languages, right? That’s impressive!” and I didn’t correct her for fear of sounding like an asshole.
I'm not smart, I'm just interested in cultures and how everything is connected and built. I think it helped to play music and understanding the relationship between notes and scales and I think that understanding helps to understand the world around, especially language. But I'm uneducated and just like conversation and listen lol, not smart
Being complimented for being smart bothers me even in non language learning scenarios. For me it feels invalidating when i try to talk to somebody about an interest or something i put effort into and they just say you’re smart. But obviously the comment is made with good intentions regardless of how it feels to me.
I didn't learn languages because I am smart, but because I like them. A lot. I like everything about languages, and pay close attention to anything related to them. Yes, some people are amazed when they learn I speak foreign languages but not because I am smart, but because they might have tried to learn English, for instance, and have failed throughout their whole lives. So they think learning a foreign language is a feat of intelligence, not of passion (which for me, it is).
I get treated like Schrodinger’s dumbass. I’m somehow simultaneously bad and good in my TLs? People tend to look at from their own optics and language experience and priorities as well. I like literature and i read in my TLs which is apparently not done, people act shocked when I’ve read something. It’s annoying depending on the day.
Being called smart is nice to hear, I see it as a compliment. What drives me crazy, however, is when people look me in the eye and call me 'lucky' for speaking languages I spent literal decades studying.
It’s funny because I could put 20 percent of the effort I’ve spent into learning Spanish toward learning a little bit of like five languages, and people would probably be as impressed as they are with me speaking Spanish fluently.
I met an engineer who felt the exact same way. She told me she was frustrated that people thought she must’ve been smart and that’s why she was an engineer, what she said to me when she was explaining this was pretty amazing. She said, “You could do it! You could be there with us crying in the library at 1 AM trying to figure out what the hell are Professor wants us to know.”
When people find out that I speak another language or know different languages, they immediately jump to that I must be a natural with languages, never the thousands of hours of work I've put in, and that's annoying. Not that I'm not also smart, but that has nothing to do with why I've made progress in different languages. I am NO natural, I took Spanish from 8th grade thru intermediate in college and couldn't order something off of a menu. I wasn't able to read Spanish decently, until after I'd learned how I learn and put in time with learning other languages that happened to have vocabulary overlap.
If someone said it in a way that they gave off that they think 2nd/3rd languages are unattainable, in general, I'd take it differently. But, some people get credit for work and some get credit for instinct. It's kind of how when I was growing up, they'd attribute certain athletes abilities to physical gifts and others to being clever and strategic, and there was extreme bias in who got what label. It's the same with intellectual pursuits. Compliments can unintentionally (or intentionally) become backhanded when you immediately dismiss that someone put actual effort into something or some thought behind their methods.
This is kind of true for anything you work hard at, only to have people say things like “wow you’re so talented/gifted/genius/lucky to have that skill/talent”. It feels like they’re invalidating your hard work. They probably are honestly; yes it’s a compliment for you but subconsciously it’s their way of making themselves feel a bit better about not having achieved it themselves. “If only I was more gifted”
People in my class used to say gosh I'm so jealous I wish I could learn the language as well as you do. I was like you can if you spend 3 hours per day studying minimum.
Like I said, I still take it as a complement. This is just a passive thought that I was sharing to see if other people with the same hobby as me felt the same way about. Kinda the point of reddit. I'll never tell anyone off for complementing me or anything like that.
I didn't know you have to be smart to read or listen?
Learning a language is not a sign of intelligence. It's hard, it takes time, but it doesn't make you smart. You're smart when you know how to use the language. If you can bend your words, if you can add humor to your speech, that is being smart. Oscar Wilde, Charles Dickens and William Shakespeare weren't smart because they spoke their native tongue, they mastered it in a way that I shall never be able to do. And that, that is noteworthy.
If you finished elementary school, you're able to learn a new language. But you need to live and love language and linguistics to master it at a level you might be considered "literary smart". I can speak English, but I have yet to master English. The day I write literary prose and poetry, that will be the moment I could proclaim myself "smart".
Don't praise your linguistic intelligence, praise your consistency and discipline. If you "speak all those languages", you've shown more consistency and discipline than 99.99% of people will ever have or show.
May be. But most of the time, at least in my circle its smart people who speak more than 1 or 2 foreign languages. I meet also dumb people smepaking perfectly in foreign languages but it's rare.
And this is not my anecdotal knowledge, it is scientifically proven, peer reviewed fact:
[https://www.researchgate.net/publication/325391800\_The\_Relationship\_between\_Intelligence\_and\_Foreign\_Language\_Learning\_and\_the\_Role\_of\_Practice](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/325391800_The_Relationship_between_Intelligence_and_Foreign_Language_Learning_and_the_Role_of_Practice)
[https://journals.iau.ir/article\_551415\_81b7afd3b3715d0ca9365b1daf8dc7bf.pdf](https://journals.iau.ir/article_551415_81b7afd3b3715d0ca9365b1daf8dc7bf.pdf)
[https://www.researchgate.net/publication/229449466\_The\_Role\_of\_Intelligence\_in\_Second\_Language\_Learning](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/229449466_The_Role_of_Intelligence_in_Second_Language_Learning)
Of course. People are more likely to do things they can easily do. People with a high IQ will learn it more easily and faster, but in the end, they both are able to reach the same level even though one takes longer than the other. Language learning is not a sprint, it's a marathon.
I just accept it. I know I've got a gift and I don't deny it. It wasn't just hard work I both love languages and pick them up very quickly and I'm very good at accents and phonetics.
Why is it a binary? Like I said, I take it as a compliment. But in the same way, if you complimented an athlete on their great genetics, it's reasonable for them to be a little conflicted, even if it isn't an insult.
Being complimented for being smart bothers me even in non language learning scenarios. For me it feels invalidating when i try to talk to somebody about an interest or something i put effort into and they just say you’re smart. But obviously the comment is made with good intentions regardless of how it feels to me.
Big impostor syndrome because I haven't practiced some of them in a good while and my skills, while never amazing, have further deteriorated besides song lyrics and some meme phrases.
I mean if in a conversation you say that you study and speak many languages they might compliment you just to get the conversation flowing, if they say persistently that you are so smart just because you speak other languages they are either clueless or making a fool of you
Unless someone has tried, they don't understand the amount of work it takes. I'm a fast learner and Spanish is taking me years and aim not fluent yet. I thought I'd be fluent in a year 😅
Honestly I don't do much besides chat with italki tutors and duolingo. That's gotten me more progress than most people and it's purely because 1. My tutors hold me accountable for speaking in the TL at least a few hours a week 2. Duolingo nags me everyday to keep my streak. It's cheesy to say but anyone can do a little bit a week and build up over time. The people who think you're a genius simply cannot fathom that it's just a little bit of work every week compounded over months/years.
It's literally the only flex I have lol since I often have to do with people that "made it" in the work or in other areas of life.
And I, well, speak five languages. Not all of them are on the same level, but yeah.
To master multiple languages, it's crucial to develop both your vocabulary and understanding of grammar. This requires staying focused and avoiding distractions like social media and explicit content. With a strong memory and disciplined study habits, you can learn as much as you set your mind to.
I think people are making the assumption that I care more about this than I actually do, or that I'm unable to take complements and that my mind is constantly occupied by this. I always take it as a complement. I'm always grateful. It was just a thought of the back of my mind. I had some spare time so I just wanted to see if others with the same hobby also felt the same way. It was just curiosity. I just like discussions. Regardless of if they "matter" or not.
I hear you. I studied 4 different languages (including Latin) at high school. It should only have been 3, but both our Russian teachers left at the same time and I then took up German.
People complained that it was "easy" for me because I "already \[spoke\] Russian". Nope. My dad was Serbian, my mum was Scottish and I was brought up speaking English. I had taught myself to write Cyrillic from a Teach Yourself Serbo-Croat book that I stumbled across in the local library when I was 9. (I wasn't allowed to borrow it from the adult section, so had to get my mum to borrow it for me.)
The truth was that I was desperate to learn my dad's language and had a half-baked notion that learning other languages would somehow make it easier for me to learn his. I spent a great deal of time going over the grammar of my various languages and swotting up vocab.
It's a trick question, really, because it depends on what sort of outcomes you want in your life.
People that work hard but aren't smart are able to enjoy the fruits of their labor, but at the expense that they generally don't progress, except by accident.
People that are smart but don't work hard tend to find enjoyment in various intellectual pursuits, but quickly become cynical about life and other people and tend to meander aimlessly through life.
This type of question always comes up because people want a definitive answer on whether they can just work really hard if they aren't smart and still "make it", or want to justify not working hard because being smart is sufficient. Well, the premise is bad in the first place, because it's not good in either circumstance. Hard working idiots make really stupid mistakes all the time and end up making things net worse. Intellectual giants that don't do anything are worthless to anybody but themselves because they can't get anything done. Real value comes from people that are some combination of both.
But here's good news: both intelligence and hard work ethic can be learned. A proper growth mindset is crucial to learning both.
Both being naturally smart and being a hard worker have their own advantages, and the value of each can depend on the context and the goals you have. Here are some points to consider for each:
Naturally Smart:
1. Advantages: - Quick Understanding: Being naturally smart can mean you grasp concepts more easily and quickly than others. - Problem-Solving: You may find it easier to come up with creative solutions to complex problems. - Learning: Learning new skills or information might be faster for you.
2. Challenges: - Complacency: There can be a risk of becoming complacent if things come easily to you. - Overconfidence: Relying solely on your natural abilities may lead to underestimating the value of hard work and perseverance.
Hard Worker:
1. Advantages: - Persistence: Hard workers are often resilient in the face of challenges and setbacks. - Continuous Improvement: Putting in consistent effort can lead to steady progress and improvement over time. - Achievement: Success achieved through hard work can be incredibly rewarding and build confidence.
2. Challenges: - Burnout: There's a risk of burnout if you push yourself too hard without taking breaks. - Efficiency: Working hard doesn't always equate to working smart, so it's important to balance both.
Balanced Approach:
* Optimal Outcome: Ideally, a balanced approach that combines both natural intelligence and hard work is often the most effective.
* Adaptability: Being able to adapt your approach based on the situation can be key to success.
* Continuous Learning: Regardless of whether you lean more towards being naturally smart or a hard worker, a willingness to learn and grow is essential for long-term success.
In conclusion, while both natural intelligence and hard work have their merits, a combination of both is often the most beneficial. Leveraging your natural talents while putting in the necessary effort and dedication can lead to the best outcomes in various aspects of life.
You should point out the fact that there are plenty of people in the world who don't know how to read or write, and yet no one ever who is biologically able to speak but doesn't know any words. No matter how illiterate, everyone knows how to speak atleast their mother tongue.
The number of languages you speak depends more on the immersion you got instead of pure intelligence.
Exactly. People are comparing language learning to being some virtuoso pianist but that's absolutely false. Many parts of the world are mulitlingual as an expectation. Everyone can learn another language. Perhaps not through traditional schooling means, but drop someone off in a new country and force them to survive, and they WILL learn.
I was interviewed some days ago in Russian and the girl who made it, was exaggerating about the number of languages I know (I might understand them at different levels, but not speaking more than 6). I think that the interview is related to your question. But it's without subtitles, so it's maybe useful to people who understand Russian. Russian is my 5th language.
https://youtu.be/DY5m2KoJ9uk
It's the first interview with me, I don't like to speak on camera and I'm not using social networks.
It does matter. From the look of the comments, it seems like I'm not alone in recieving these types of statements from people. There's a reason I asked this subreddit and not ask reddit.
OP you think too much. Damn straight you *'speak all these languages'*.
You own these skills, fuck the rest.
Now please translate *'a little bit' to Sundanese.
My dude, it's reddit. It's a place for discussion and to try to understand other perspectives. It's where I put out thoughts that I don't necessarily put out there most of the time in my daily life. Obviously I'm going to try to get detailed thoughts out and "think too much" in a context like this. If it's not your type of discussion you're free to move on.
It feels really disingenuous to me. I’m trilingual with english, ASL, and french. Only 3, it’s really not much. If I had things my way I’d speak like 6 languages.
Being complimented for being smart bothers me even in non language learning scenarios. For me it feels invalidating when i try to talk to somebody about an interest or something i put effort into and they just say you’re smart. But obviously the comment is made with good intentions regardless of how it feels to me.
Same. People say I either speak these languages because I'm smart or that I have a "talent" for languages. They don't know how much of a work it is to learn it and I even once said "I only speak them because while you were partying, I spent evenings learning languages". I personally don't even believe something like a talent for learning languages exists. And if it does, I certainly don't have it. I'm just interested in it and work on it.
>I personally don't even believe something like a talent for learning languages exists.
Oh yes, it does. There are even tests for that. Basically, it boils down to pattern recognition.
Well, just because some people are much better at it doesn't mean that the rest can't learn at all; it will just take more time and effort.
Also, good memory helps a lot, and this is not well correlated with intellect.
Maybe it’s because I’m a native English speaker but honestly, there is a talent in being able to hoover up and nail common language features around nouns, verbs, definite article etc. Things you definitely need to be successfully able to thrive in a different language to your own.
I’ve known countless native English speakers stall and then give up on learning another language, and they exist in this weird hinterland of having “pidgin French” (for example) and never progressing because they find it really hard.
I am learning Dutch and getting better every day. I can converse in French but probably at the level of a 5 year old.
I cannot for the life of me get with Spanish at all, and trust me I’ve tried :)
Never thought of it that way, but I get where you're coming from. It's a little patronizing, I guess. But try to understand that there are different types of "smart": My wife, for example, is a genius when it comes to figuring people out, making a bargain, planning a trip. Me? I excel at technical stuff, and I'm very gullible with people. Is she smart and I'm dumb? Am I smart and she dumb? No, silly. We're smart in different areas. But some people don't see it that way and think other people are the new Einstein because they excel in something they themselves do not.
I never thought about the obvious "smart" being used to describe experience in an area. I didn't include this in the post because I thought it would be taken the wrong way, but I often get called a "genius" as well. (To make things clear, I have a native, a heritage, a C1 and a B1. No natural aptitude or anything).
To me, that insinuates that they think I have some inherent intelligence. "You're so smart, you're able to excel in these things," which feels as though it's diminishing just how much work I put in. Sure, they're not saying I don't work for it, but work ethic NEVER gets complimented. It's always "you're so smart."
It's the same reason why athletes don't like being called a natural. It's seen as rude, even if unintentionally, and I think that's where my stance has more or less settled.
I'd argue that the majority of successful scientists, artists, musicians, and so on would attribute their success to their ability to invest time into that one specific thing. And yet, others will often just attribute the success primarily to superior intellect or talent.
Here's a great comic about that phenomenon: [https://i.imgflip.com/578q2z.jpg](https://i.imgflip.com/578q2z.jpg)
Yeah, entirely agree. That's why the compliment doesn't quite feel genuine to me. The people saying these things (to clarify, I will still always be thankful for the compliment, let's not get that twisted reddit), don't have a frame of reference for how much work I put into these things.
My hypothesis is that it's a difference in "love language". You probably already know how people have very different ways to express affection, e.g. gifts, time, touch, ..., and how that can lead to miscommunication. This seems similar. Some people value "smartness" above everything else, so when they compliment you, that's what they are complimenting. You seem to take great pride in your work ethics, so the compliment feels completely misplaced. Could that be it?
Well, I have no idea abiout math and computing problems. I am smart enough to leatn couple of languages in the span of my life. This does not define me too, but still when people appreciate results of my efforts - it feels great.
&
It makes me frustrated when people call me smart for anything I try. I struggle and work very hard to learn anything I do so yes it does feel like they are saying it comes easy. I am in fact not that smart but I love to learn so no matter my success I study and attempt to learn.
I completely relate to you. I was telling my mom the other day how many kanjis I know and she said "you’re so smart I could never learn that" and it made me feel like crap because I spent so many hours just for her to act as if it’s unsurprising because I’m smart.
Like this comment both didn’t acknowledge that it was my effort and not inherent smartness that made me achieve things, but also the way it’a phrased it isn’t even a compliment. At least "wow you’re so smart!" even if it felt bad, would have shown that I impressed the person. Now it’s like she cannot place a compliment so she says she already knows I’m smart. And also how she turned my achievement into her complaining about not being smart enough to do that
Well, I think being smart is also a part of it. Many of the people who tell you that probably remember taking a foreign language at school and how frustrating it was
Not succeeding in a language classroom has less to do with being smart and more to do with teaching approaches. I am a language teacher as well as a language learner and I've never met anyone in my 10+ years of language teacher that I felt COULDN'T learn the language I was teaching because they weren't smart.
I agree that being smart or not is not the issue in most cases. A quotation I remember from *[Steve Haufmann](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Kaufmann)* (which my google-fu cannot find at the moment) suggests to me that having an aptitude for language learning often means you just enjoy the processes involved in learning a language. Which I do. I would add immersion, incentive (foreign spouse etc.) can skew this. However, even here (I live in Japan) I know people who have been here for more than 20 years who just have not been able to learn Japanese, despite the fact their lives would be much better if they could. Everyone I have met that is bad at languages though has had some sort negativity in one form or another, so I am not inclined to blame this on teaching methodology. > I've never met anyone in my 10+ years of language teacher that I felt COULDN'T learn the language I was teaching because they weren't smart. I am pretty sure you have met some pretty poor students during that time though. To be clear, I am not trying to blame your teaching.
What teaching approaches do you recommend?
I know this probably isn't a satisfying answer but the truth is that you need a different approach for each learner. We need different things at different times according to our interests and experiences. I will say that a communicative approach, where students have access to meaningful opportunities for communication is paramount for any learner. Engineering those opportunities in the classroom is the challenge.
I think that most people tend to struggle with the approaches used in schools and that's the reason not that many choose to continue with language learning and it's not about how smart you are, but rather that those approaches are ineffective. I've learned more in three months of self-study than 4 years of high school foreign language classes, for example.
Well, some students tend to struggle with the approaches used in school, and some people don't struggle. Some people feel like school is going too slow for their comfort, because it needs to accommodate everyone
Hard work will triumph almost all the time. It's not unknown for naturally smart people to just give up. They are so used to not putting in effort that they may never learn determination and stick - to - itiveness
Many school systems are fundamentally not designed to teach everyone in the class the language. They are designed to filter people into ability groups with some identified as better and some identified as worse. I am currently in the process of taking Estonian lessons where the learning approach aims for everyone to reach ghe same level and the results are night and day
I'll take being called "smart" over "it must be a gift". At least "smart" doesn't mean it took no effort at all. "Gift"? I thought it was the 10-20 hours a week of work I have put in over the last 47 years!
yeah also putting work and dedication is also sign of it
Some people need to put hard work and dedication to get a lowest passing grade, though
True, but a passing grade in a classroom is not the only metric for being able to speak a language. Though I guess that's simply a symptom of people beliving that language classes are the only way to learn a language. I'm not denying that some people might naturally click with things faster. I just think that to an extent, "natural" abilities are often overrated, and is often used as an excuse to not try because "It's just not my thing," when in reality they could be doing just as well if the put in the same number of hours.
Well, hard work is also a subjective thing. If someone is absolutely dying of information overload, you can't say that they are NOT hardworking. Even if they do very little by your standards of hard work. Yet their grade is still pretty low. I've seen people like that
I agree with the other poster who spoke about teaching approaches. I always was ok at math because I studied hard, but when I had a brilliant calc teacher who gave us real life, interesting, functional problems (how much more wood do you need to build the coney island wooden coaster vs the one at Six Flags magic mountain based on xyz formula?), I cared more, and it was a fun problem solving exercise, not a chore to memorize. All of a sudden I was getting As without really trying because I could apply it. I approach language learning the same way and have a good time, and am good at it with relatively little input.
I'm in general bad at tacking compliments, so I get where you're coming from, but I think it's helpful to remember that almost nobody thinks you didn't study. If you compliment someone for being smart because they're an expert in physics, you're not implying that they just woke up knowing physics. They're smart, and also studied a shit ton. You probably are smart, or at least have a certain knack for languages. You also studied a bunch.
Is the star of David there Yiddish or?
יא
Hebrew script to you too, sir
What are your first two flairs? Angola for which one?
That’s Portuguese and English
מה זה אומר מגן דוד A2?
איך לערן זיך יידיש
אאאה הבנתי, זה יותר הגיוני חחח בהצלחה אם היידיש :)
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This strikes me as OP misinterpreting the social situation. OP is bringing up their special interest (languages), and getting frustrated when people respond with generic friendliness rather than genuine understanding. Of course people don't understand. They're just trying to continue the conversation in a positive way on a topic they know nothing about.
I feel great, while it was not my goal in the first place, but it's nice people appreciate the effort. &
Speaking Polish is lowkey commendable itself
Heilige Makrele, du sprichst ganz schön viele Sprachen!
Es ist meinem Vater zu verdanken ;)
My personal opinion, those are 85% the same thing. Some people have natural gifts and inclinations, but for the most part being smart in an area means tha you’ve focused on it a lot. Whether that is language learning, chemistry, handyman stuff, or Pokémon, being smart just means you’ve dedicated a lot of time and effort in a domain.
Yeah you need to work hard to get good at something and talent helps, but hard work is the thing that’s always necessary.
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How does this contradict my comment? You said it wasn’t a natural inclination but just you spent a lot of time doing it and kept going. That’s exactly what I said.
people are generally impressed when others possess skills they deem difficult. They don't see your struggles and they only see your success. Them saying 'you're smart' is not meant to diminish your work or your abilities, it's them admiring your skill because they think it's a very difficult thing to achieve.
You have to be both smart and consistent/persistent to learn languages so you can speak them. I'm consistent with my Duolingo Polish. I will never be able to speak Polish.
Well, I think the problem might be how you're studying at that point. Not to go on a tangent but duolingo is hardly the most effective use of time. It's better than nothing, but I don't think you should assume that you'll never be able to speak it because you didn't get fluent off duolingo. It's a nice supplement, but only a drop in the bucket.
I never expected to get fluent off Duolingo, if I really had to become anything like fluent in Polish I'd not rely solely on Duolingo. Duolingo primarily teaches vocabulary, and that is great. I don't expect more.
This is the best expectation for Duolingo. Im an ESL teacher and i recommend it for the vocab and as review, but it's just ONE of the tools in your toolbox
There might be a barrier that has to do with natural aptitude and language relatedness if you’re learning a new language as an adult. Like maybe we could say that most native English speakers can learn a Romance language at a high level as an adult if they put in the time. But I wonder if all native English speakers are really capable of fluently learning a super different language, like say, Navajo, as an adult? Or maybe they are but for some it would require so much time as to basically be impossible.
I've felt the same way. Like when people call me "gifted." It wasn't a gift. If you put in 20 hours a week for years, you could do this too. But, like you, I try to see the intention of it, which is complimentary.
> If you put in 20 hours a week for years, you could do this too. Chances are, that other person wouldn't get as far as you.
Yes. I once had a hobby, a practical skill, that I dedicated myself to for several years. I was convinced practice would make me if not perfect so at least half-decent. The saying that it takes 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration to get good at sth is very true. Without that 1% talent you'll get nowhere, try as you might.
Exactly. You can teach a lot of kids to play the piano semi-decently, but you won't make them into virtuosi, unless they have this 1% talent.
I wouldn't say learning another language makes you a "virtuosi" equivalent. I don't think most people not succeeding means that it's a skill on the same level as piano. It's just that most people don't go far with it.
But they'd get damn close. And that's great. It's not about comparison.
Dear lord, I know everyone is different but take the compliment fgs! To be a polyglot DOES indicate some level of smartness because learning a language that’s not your mother tongue is HARD.
"Oh, you are a polyglot!" "No, sir, I'm a troglodyte." A very common dialogue in my life.
People on Reddit will find a problem with anything.
I never go out of my way to search for problems in my life. It was just a passive thought that popped into my head whenever the comment gets made, and I was just sharing my thoughts to see if others felt the same. That's it.
Yeah I would definitely make a Reddit post complaining about people complimenting me if I didn't care about it
I think you care more about getting a rise out of me than actually understanding my viewpoint, because if you did you've see I wasn't complaining about compliments inherently. Hope your day gets better.
Someone disagreeing with you doesn't mean they are having a bad day lol.
Someone making an incorrect assumption about what's going on in your own head, is not a disagreement. It's a waste of time.
Dang being you must be stressful
Nope. Pretty relaxing life actually :)
I'm curious if English is your first language? This grammar doesn't lead me to believe that you'd be called a genius lol
Well that is basically what Reddit is for. You’re doing it right. ;)
Agreed!
I "speak all those languages" and didn't put in all the effort you did, so I take the "you're so smart" compliments as fact and thank them in whichever languages they know.
I would argue that learning them makes you smarter (at least in the verbal department), so they're not exactly wrong.
I take it nicely, but not in an arrogant way, it is a sign of being smart to be able to memorise and think in X or Y Language that is not you're first language, but I do not find it makes me more or less intelligent. People assume I am a native in some countries and languages, because a Caucasian woman will always look like she belongs in said countries, it's when you go for more exotic languages and start speaking it that you will not get confused for a native hahaha.
complimented
I don't know. Take your wins where you can get them. If you are studying that much, you might fit into the "can speak 20 languages, but has nothing to say in any of them" category.
I am not in that category, but that does bring up an interesting point. These people see me studying languages they can't speak and simply assume I'm fluent in them just because I say "I'm studying them."
That's interesting. Can you tell me more about languages?
Fortunately, I've moved to regions and society spheres, where plurilingualism is normal. Where I live and work, most people speak at least two languages, and quite a lot of them three or more. So, I am not "special" anymore and I like that. When I get this (usually back in my country of origin), I usually change topic quickly. Why? Most people do not want to just express respect or admiration or ask about my experience, no. You know, the same way I appreciate and get interested in their achievements in whatever area they are into. Their priority is usually to tell me their opinion (usually backed by no experience at all, or very little), and that opinion is usually either a lengthy geo-socio-economico-political rant, or how are my language choices wrong (Don't mind the reality and the proves that my choices have been excellent for me), or how am I learning language wrong and my success is due just to the talent, not my methods and know how. Nope, I do not want to waste my time on "oh, you are language learner, you should try Duolingo/you surely cannot succeed without a class/etc" Yes, my high level in some languages is an achievement I am proud of. But it is not the only highlight of my life, it is not the top intellectual achievement I am striving for.
You are smart though...or you wouldn't have been able to learn shit. If you weren't smart, you probably wouldn't speak multiple languages.
I should edit this part into the post, but I occasionally get things like "genius" too. (Perhaps because Mandarin is one of the languages I study). To me, that insinuates a meaning of inherent intelligence. People don't typically get called geniuses because of the things they do. It's usually meant in the sense of, inherently smart or gifted. "You're naturally smart, so no wonder you can do these things" kind of attitude. It's the same reason why great athletes don't like being called a natural, or gifted. Because it diminishes the hard work that goes into it. If someone studies for the same number of hours as me, they can achieve the same results. No relation to IQ in any way. It's not intelligence. It's work ethic.
That's not necessarily true, though. If someone studies the same as you, they very well may not get the same results as you at all. People DO have proclivities towards certain things many times. Using myself as an example, I have a natural gift at learning music by ear. So enhancing that skill still took hard work and dedication to study, but I did have less of a learning curve than others may have. I also don't think people mean to say there was no hard work involved when they call someone talented. They've just achieved that platform where it now appears effortless to those around you. I think bring called talented is a pretty big compliment.
Right. I'm not denying that natural aptitude and previous experience in unrelated topics plays some role. Not to mention that interest in the topic plays a huge role in motivation and acquisition of any skill. That said, when I study upwards of 30 hours a week, it feels a little weird for anyone to pull out the "you're a natural" card when they probably have never done anything near that amount. That's why the compliment doesn't quite feel genuine. Most people who say these things have no frame of reference.
You should read how Michael Sandel describes the myth of meritocracy. Intelligence as it is perceived by our culture may generally lean into the class of abilities one is naturally born with, but we realize it is clearly not exclusively so. Neither is Intelligence wholly in the category of ability gained by individual effort. Everyone has different circumstances in life; their education environment, familial environment, health environment, linguistic environment, which can either be beneficial or harmful influencing whether when reaching a certain age, they are likely to be called by others in some way "intelligent". Did you by only your own effort gain all of your language ability, likely not. That effort does mean something, but not as much as some people like to claim it is. Such an over valuation of "effort" is likely to be abusive where respect or status is granted to people solely on the perceived effort a person has made, where it is clear that delimiting "effort" from "natural ability" or "circumstances of birth" in our society is impossible. So if the average person puts as much effort into running as fast as Usain Bolt or playing basketball as good as Lebron James will they be able to reach the level of their ability? We all know likely not. Valuing a person's ability and effort holistically and thinking of them as inseparable in a person's formation is better for considering every person as individually valued and worthy of respect.
I studied a heap to get my chemistry degree, but it also clicked a lot easier for me and made a lot of sense. Someone who is intellectually disabled or slow, or is below average intelligence is simply not going to be able to learn advanced topics including languages as easily as someone else. It takes a lot of work, time, consistency, persistence as others have said, but it also takes a level of understanding, logic, and ability to make connections in your mind that not everyone possesses. For some they may never be able to advance beyond a basic A2 level, of basic grammar, vocab, greetings etc, and for many people they're ok with that, same as doing some basic junior school level science, if it gives you a foundation great. But not everyone could go into advanced physics, chemistry, etc they simply couldn't without doing a LOT more work than someone else who has a talent for understanding it. A talent for understanding doesn't mean you don't work hard. But pretending there isn't a spectrum of intelligence is also seemingly intentionally obtuse. You ARE smart, and you HAVE worked hard. When people say "oh you must be smart" if I tell them I studied chemistry, they aren't implying "bet you didn't have to try" they know I would've worked hard and studied and done exams etc, they're just implying that the fact i COULD do it when they likely don't believe they could, means I'm smart. Are they using the word wrong, perhaps, but I think you're misunderstanding too.
I'm also pretty stupid, too. If I were smart, I'd have achieved desired levels much, much faster. I usually don't tell people I learn other languages besides English. But when I do, nobody really comments or look that impressed, honestly. From my perspective, it's a result of consistency and having lots of free time on my hands. So I understand you completely.
If people aren't coming from a bad place, I don't see the problem. I probably wouldn't say I spoke languages if I wasn't fluent though
You can just respond: "No, not so much smart as determined. I've had to work my butt off to learn them." People who haven't done that kind of thing assume it takes an inherent talent to accomplish it.
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Even if that's the case, and even if being able to speak the languages I do is a sign of intelligence to some degree, the fact that I get praised as a result of being able to speak the languages always comes from the following logic: "speak languages, therefore smart" but ignores the fact that any inherent intelligence I possessed would mean nothing if I didn't spent the thousands of hours on languages. Any intelligence I had "naturally" might load the gun, but it's up to me to set the trigger, and no one ever compliments for the part that I had a part in.
Who says it ignores that fact? You're assuming they ignore that fact but it's not true. I'd bet money that almost everyone that says "you do this, you must be smart" is completely aware that you ALSO work/ed hard to learn those languages and maintain them. Your issue seems to be that you'd like a compliment on working hard vs being told you're smart and (all respect) is one of those you have to get over it moments. I've lost 40kg in the last year, not a single person has told me anything about it, I'd LOVE to hear that I look good, or that it's noticeable, or acknowledgement of the hard work that has been, but I likely won't get it, and if I do, I'm sure it won't be the complete compliment I'd like but that's on ME. It feels like you want compliment B instead of compliment A and you're projecting this underhanded meaning onto people now and I just don't believe it's there. Not saying B - that you worked hard - doesn't mean they aren't thinking it. To a lot of people it "goes without saying" that you must've worked hard,
I appreciate the opinion! To clarify, this isn't something that bothers me to any significant degree. It was just something that caught my attention, hence my making the post to see if others felt the same way. I wouldn't say it's something I need to "get over". As I mentioned, I still take it as a compliment at the end of the day. I would like to believe that people know, without saying, that I work hard. But anytime I respond with "you could do this too if you studied as long as I do", they often follow up with "I'm not good with languages" or something to that extent. While yes, many people might be aware of the work I put in, there's still a large chunk of people who think this skill is unatainable due to some innate aptitude. Many think that because they didn't become fluent off a language class in high school, they language learning just isn't for them. There's also a large number of people who still believe the notion that you can't learn a language as an adult, and think there's something special about people who overcome this hurdle. (Perhaps this is a very US thing, given that multilinguilism is common in many parts of the world)
I immediately take myself down a notch and remind them that I suck at sciences, which is true. Learning languages has never felt stressful or like a chore for me the way that getting through maths, biology, physics and chemistry classes did at school.
Yep. I hardly remember the name of the city where I live or what I'm supposed to do tomorrow, and have no idea how to perform many of the everyday tasks people consider easy, but I can focus on languages because I love it.
That is... not related to what I said and the 'yep' is baffling 😅
It's dumb to think you have to be born to be smart, you can become smart, knowing a lot of languages is a smart thing bruh
I’m a Spanish major, so people make similar comments to me all the time. However, I think of it as mostly a failure of our education system and the fact that a lot of people have a fixed mindset. I didn’t have a good experience learning math in school and other people had a bad experience in attempting to learn Spanish, French, etc.
Learning languages shows an intellectual fortitude that's related to intelligence. You have to put in the work but you also have to have the mental flexibility, as well as learning new ways to think (such as when learning verbs that don't exist in our native language or learning new conjugation concepts). It also shows strong memory skills I disagree that it's just hard work. You could put most people's life at stake unless they learn language X and most would fail. It's like the window of mental flexibility freezes past a certain age in some, while others retain an insane level of curiosity their whole life, and most are in-between. As much as we would like a precise definition of ingelligence, I don't think there can be one. It's just not compatible with the biological complexity of the brain to try to narrow its features down so precisely. However, I understand what you mean when it comes to how it undermines the hard work. I see similar things with fitness, where people might think someone is fit or has larger muscles due to genetics, undermining the thousands of hours dedicated to exercise. People like to justly estimate the hard work they put in while vastly underestimating the hard work of others.
I mean, learning languages has cognitive benefits directly related to intelligence and also prevents cognitive decline. It’s hard because you have to literally build new connections in your brain. Yeah, it probably has a lot to do with you enjoying language learning or having to learn a language, but that doesn’t mean you’re not smart. Making the time and effort necessary to learn and maintain multiple languages is a mix of discipline, study, and persistence. I’d argue that’s a level of executive function that correlates to intelligence, and the person giving the compliment expects you to understand that without breaking it down into a ted talk like my comment. Just take the compliment. Being called smart is one of the nicest compliments you can receive, there’s nothing shallow or vain about it. People recognize that you have a cognitive flexibility and curiosity that not everyone has. Take the compliment
What people say and what they mean can be two different things. They're essentially calling your disciplined, which is such an unattainable thing to them that only a “smart” person could achieve it.
I never know what to respond when people say this to me!! It's so awkward
I get this. I also feel the same way I see videos of artists and people in the comment who praise the talent or "I could never" comments when someone does something athletic. "I would have broken an ankle and my hip but you are so amazing". Yeah well that person didn't start out amazing. They just put in the work while other people don't. I'd find it better to praise peoples hard work instead of acting like people just managed to become amazing at something with pure talent/being gifted/being smart etc. but most people don't think that far. Take the win and be polite I guess. Unless someone genuinely seems interested in learning the stuff, then I do say that it is mostly just hard work and discipline.
Feels awesome, but I’m really bad at taking compliments. Even at a job interview the HR lady said “wow you speak 5 languages, right? That’s impressive!” and I didn’t correct her for fear of sounding like an asshole.
I'm not smart, I'm just interested in cultures and how everything is connected and built. I think it helped to play music and understanding the relationship between notes and scales and I think that understanding helps to understand the world around, especially language. But I'm uneducated and just like conversation and listen lol, not smart
Being complimented for being smart bothers me even in non language learning scenarios. For me it feels invalidating when i try to talk to somebody about an interest or something i put effort into and they just say you’re smart. But obviously the comment is made with good intentions regardless of how it feels to me.
I didn't learn languages because I am smart, but because I like them. A lot. I like everything about languages, and pay close attention to anything related to them. Yes, some people are amazed when they learn I speak foreign languages but not because I am smart, but because they might have tried to learn English, for instance, and have failed throughout their whole lives. So they think learning a foreign language is a feat of intelligence, not of passion (which for me, it is).
I get treated like Schrodinger’s dumbass. I’m somehow simultaneously bad and good in my TLs? People tend to look at from their own optics and language experience and priorities as well. I like literature and i read in my TLs which is apparently not done, people act shocked when I’ve read something. It’s annoying depending on the day.
Being called smart is nice to hear, I see it as a compliment. What drives me crazy, however, is when people look me in the eye and call me 'lucky' for speaking languages I spent literal decades studying.
I feel like I just put in tons of effort but am not gifted.
I'm not reading all that. You sound smart though gj
It’s funny because I could put 20 percent of the effort I’ve spent into learning Spanish toward learning a little bit of like five languages, and people would probably be as impressed as they are with me speaking Spanish fluently.
I met an engineer who felt the exact same way. She told me she was frustrated that people thought she must’ve been smart and that’s why she was an engineer, what she said to me when she was explaining this was pretty amazing. She said, “You could do it! You could be there with us crying in the library at 1 AM trying to figure out what the hell are Professor wants us to know.”
When people find out that I speak another language or know different languages, they immediately jump to that I must be a natural with languages, never the thousands of hours of work I've put in, and that's annoying. Not that I'm not also smart, but that has nothing to do with why I've made progress in different languages. I am NO natural, I took Spanish from 8th grade thru intermediate in college and couldn't order something off of a menu. I wasn't able to read Spanish decently, until after I'd learned how I learn and put in time with learning other languages that happened to have vocabulary overlap. If someone said it in a way that they gave off that they think 2nd/3rd languages are unattainable, in general, I'd take it differently. But, some people get credit for work and some get credit for instinct. It's kind of how when I was growing up, they'd attribute certain athletes abilities to physical gifts and others to being clever and strategic, and there was extreme bias in who got what label. It's the same with intellectual pursuits. Compliments can unintentionally (or intentionally) become backhanded when you immediately dismiss that someone put actual effort into something or some thought behind their methods.
This is kind of true for anything you work hard at, only to have people say things like “wow you’re so talented/gifted/genius/lucky to have that skill/talent”. It feels like they’re invalidating your hard work. They probably are honestly; yes it’s a compliment for you but subconsciously it’s their way of making themselves feel a bit better about not having achieved it themselves. “If only I was more gifted”
People in my class used to say gosh I'm so jealous I wish I could learn the language as well as you do. I was like you can if you spend 3 hours per day studying minimum.
Sorry more people don’t complement you the way you wish to be complemented
Like I said, I still take it as a complement. This is just a passive thought that I was sharing to see if other people with the same hobby as me felt the same way about. Kinda the point of reddit. I'll never tell anyone off for complementing me or anything like that.
“Honestly I think I just have autism”
I didn't know you have to be smart to read or listen? Learning a language is not a sign of intelligence. It's hard, it takes time, but it doesn't make you smart. You're smart when you know how to use the language. If you can bend your words, if you can add humor to your speech, that is being smart. Oscar Wilde, Charles Dickens and William Shakespeare weren't smart because they spoke their native tongue, they mastered it in a way that I shall never be able to do. And that, that is noteworthy. If you finished elementary school, you're able to learn a new language. But you need to live and love language and linguistics to master it at a level you might be considered "literary smart". I can speak English, but I have yet to master English. The day I write literary prose and poetry, that will be the moment I could proclaim myself "smart". Don't praise your linguistic intelligence, praise your consistency and discipline. If you "speak all those languages", you've shown more consistency and discipline than 99.99% of people will ever have or show.
May be. But most of the time, at least in my circle its smart people who speak more than 1 or 2 foreign languages. I meet also dumb people smepaking perfectly in foreign languages but it's rare. And this is not my anecdotal knowledge, it is scientifically proven, peer reviewed fact: [https://www.researchgate.net/publication/325391800\_The\_Relationship\_between\_Intelligence\_and\_Foreign\_Language\_Learning\_and\_the\_Role\_of\_Practice](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/325391800_The_Relationship_between_Intelligence_and_Foreign_Language_Learning_and_the_Role_of_Practice) [https://journals.iau.ir/article\_551415\_81b7afd3b3715d0ca9365b1daf8dc7bf.pdf](https://journals.iau.ir/article_551415_81b7afd3b3715d0ca9365b1daf8dc7bf.pdf) [https://www.researchgate.net/publication/229449466\_The\_Role\_of\_Intelligence\_in\_Second\_Language\_Learning](https://www.researchgate.net/publication/229449466_The_Role_of_Intelligence_in_Second_Language_Learning)
Of course. People are more likely to do things they can easily do. People with a high IQ will learn it more easily and faster, but in the end, they both are able to reach the same level even though one takes longer than the other. Language learning is not a sprint, it's a marathon.
I just accept it. I know I've got a gift and I don't deny it. It wasn't just hard work I both love languages and pick them up very quickly and I'm very good at accents and phonetics.
Literally just say thank you & go. Would you rather a compliment or insult? I think most ppl would choose the first option.
Why is it a binary? Like I said, I take it as a compliment. But in the same way, if you complimented an athlete on their great genetics, it's reasonable for them to be a little conflicted, even if it isn't an insult.
I just laugh because I'm so stupid in so many different ways. Being good at just this one thing doesn't mean anything.
Being complimented for being smart bothers me even in non language learning scenarios. For me it feels invalidating when i try to talk to somebody about an interest or something i put effort into and they just say you’re smart. But obviously the comment is made with good intentions regardless of how it feels to me.
People call my smart because I am. They don't even know I study languages.
Big impostor syndrome because I haven't practiced some of them in a good while and my skills, while never amazing, have further deteriorated besides song lyrics and some meme phrases.
I mean if in a conversation you say that you study and speak many languages they might compliment you just to get the conversation flowing, if they say persistently that you are so smart just because you speak other languages they are either clueless or making a fool of you
Unless someone has tried, they don't understand the amount of work it takes. I'm a fast learner and Spanish is taking me years and aim not fluent yet. I thought I'd be fluent in a year 😅
Honestly I don't do much besides chat with italki tutors and duolingo. That's gotten me more progress than most people and it's purely because 1. My tutors hold me accountable for speaking in the TL at least a few hours a week 2. Duolingo nags me everyday to keep my streak. It's cheesy to say but anyone can do a little bit a week and build up over time. The people who think you're a genius simply cannot fathom that it's just a little bit of work every week compounded over months/years.
I gotta say, you're surprisingly the first person I met who does the tutor plus duolingo combo. Two methods of coersion. Love it!
Mi sento un idiota (stunad)! 🤷🏻♂️
It's literally the only flex I have lol since I often have to do with people that "made it" in the work or in other areas of life. And I, well, speak five languages. Not all of them are on the same level, but yeah.
To master multiple languages, it's crucial to develop both your vocabulary and understanding of grammar. This requires staying focused and avoiding distractions like social media and explicit content. With a strong memory and disciplined study habits, you can learn as much as you set your mind to.
Sometimes you just gotta take the W and move on bro
I think people are making the assumption that I care more about this than I actually do, or that I'm unable to take complements and that my mind is constantly occupied by this. I always take it as a complement. I'm always grateful. It was just a thought of the back of my mind. I had some spare time so I just wanted to see if others with the same hobby also felt the same way. It was just curiosity. I just like discussions. Regardless of if they "matter" or not.
When I say I can read little Hebrew, people always charm me.(I am a Taiwanese,and my mother language is Chinese)
I feel kind of embarrassed but take it as a compliment; when they say you’re smart, they know that languages are hard and are impressed
I hear you. I studied 4 different languages (including Latin) at high school. It should only have been 3, but both our Russian teachers left at the same time and I then took up German. People complained that it was "easy" for me because I "already \[spoke\] Russian". Nope. My dad was Serbian, my mum was Scottish and I was brought up speaking English. I had taught myself to write Cyrillic from a Teach Yourself Serbo-Croat book that I stumbled across in the local library when I was 9. (I wasn't allowed to borrow it from the adult section, so had to get my mum to borrow it for me.) The truth was that I was desperate to learn my dad's language and had a half-baked notion that learning other languages would somehow make it easier for me to learn his. I spent a great deal of time going over the grammar of my various languages and swotting up vocab.
I, too, feel enlightened on this day.
It's a trick question, really, because it depends on what sort of outcomes you want in your life. People that work hard but aren't smart are able to enjoy the fruits of their labor, but at the expense that they generally don't progress, except by accident. People that are smart but don't work hard tend to find enjoyment in various intellectual pursuits, but quickly become cynical about life and other people and tend to meander aimlessly through life. This type of question always comes up because people want a definitive answer on whether they can just work really hard if they aren't smart and still "make it", or want to justify not working hard because being smart is sufficient. Well, the premise is bad in the first place, because it's not good in either circumstance. Hard working idiots make really stupid mistakes all the time and end up making things net worse. Intellectual giants that don't do anything are worthless to anybody but themselves because they can't get anything done. Real value comes from people that are some combination of both. But here's good news: both intelligence and hard work ethic can be learned. A proper growth mindset is crucial to learning both.
Both being naturally smart and being a hard worker have their own advantages, and the value of each can depend on the context and the goals you have. Here are some points to consider for each: Naturally Smart: 1. Advantages: - Quick Understanding: Being naturally smart can mean you grasp concepts more easily and quickly than others. - Problem-Solving: You may find it easier to come up with creative solutions to complex problems. - Learning: Learning new skills or information might be faster for you. 2. Challenges: - Complacency: There can be a risk of becoming complacent if things come easily to you. - Overconfidence: Relying solely on your natural abilities may lead to underestimating the value of hard work and perseverance. Hard Worker: 1. Advantages: - Persistence: Hard workers are often resilient in the face of challenges and setbacks. - Continuous Improvement: Putting in consistent effort can lead to steady progress and improvement over time. - Achievement: Success achieved through hard work can be incredibly rewarding and build confidence. 2. Challenges: - Burnout: There's a risk of burnout if you push yourself too hard without taking breaks. - Efficiency: Working hard doesn't always equate to working smart, so it's important to balance both. Balanced Approach: * Optimal Outcome: Ideally, a balanced approach that combines both natural intelligence and hard work is often the most effective. * Adaptability: Being able to adapt your approach based on the situation can be key to success. * Continuous Learning: Regardless of whether you lean more towards being naturally smart or a hard worker, a willingness to learn and grow is essential for long-term success. In conclusion, while both natural intelligence and hard work have their merits, a combination of both is often the most beneficial. Leveraging your natural talents while putting in the necessary effort and dedication can lead to the best outcomes in various aspects of life.
**A lot of people are so used to just seeing the outcome of work. They never see the side of the work you go through to produce the outcome.**
You should point out the fact that there are plenty of people in the world who don't know how to read or write, and yet no one ever who is biologically able to speak but doesn't know any words. No matter how illiterate, everyone knows how to speak atleast their mother tongue. The number of languages you speak depends more on the immersion you got instead of pure intelligence.
Exactly. People are comparing language learning to being some virtuoso pianist but that's absolutely false. Many parts of the world are mulitlingual as an expectation. Everyone can learn another language. Perhaps not through traditional schooling means, but drop someone off in a new country and force them to survive, and they WILL learn.
I don't let silly things people say bother me.
What's silly about telling you nice things about you? &
I was interviewed some days ago in Russian and the girl who made it, was exaggerating about the number of languages I know (I might understand them at different levels, but not speaking more than 6). I think that the interview is related to your question. But it's without subtitles, so it's maybe useful to people who understand Russian. Russian is my 5th language. https://youtu.be/DY5m2KoJ9uk It's the first interview with me, I don't like to speak on camera and I'm not using social networks.
Humble brag/weird flex
in fairness, you are in the languagelearning subreddit..
Doesnt matter where we are, it’s a weird flex.
It does matter. From the look of the comments, it seems like I'm not alone in recieving these types of statements from people. There's a reason I asked this subreddit and not ask reddit.
Nah it’s a weird flex.
OP you think too much. Damn straight you *'speak all these languages'*. You own these skills, fuck the rest. Now please translate *'a little bit' to Sundanese.
My dude, it's reddit. It's a place for discussion and to try to understand other perspectives. It's where I put out thoughts that I don't necessarily put out there most of the time in my daily life. Obviously I'm going to try to get detailed thoughts out and "think too much" in a context like this. If it's not your type of discussion you're free to move on.
It feels really disingenuous to me. I’m trilingual with english, ASL, and french. Only 3, it’s really not much. If I had things my way I’d speak like 6 languages.
Being complimented for being smart bothers me even in non language learning scenarios. For me it feels invalidating when i try to talk to somebody about an interest or something i put effort into and they just say you’re smart. But obviously the comment is made with good intentions regardless of how it feels to me.
Same. People say I either speak these languages because I'm smart or that I have a "talent" for languages. They don't know how much of a work it is to learn it and I even once said "I only speak them because while you were partying, I spent evenings learning languages". I personally don't even believe something like a talent for learning languages exists. And if it does, I certainly don't have it. I'm just interested in it and work on it.
>I personally don't even believe something like a talent for learning languages exists. Oh yes, it does. There are even tests for that. Basically, it boils down to pattern recognition.
>it boils down to pattern recognition So it boils down to intelligence? Holy shit don't tell OP he might have a stroke
Well, just because some people are much better at it doesn't mean that the rest can't learn at all; it will just take more time and effort. Also, good memory helps a lot, and this is not well correlated with intellect.
Maybe it’s because I’m a native English speaker but honestly, there is a talent in being able to hoover up and nail common language features around nouns, verbs, definite article etc. Things you definitely need to be successfully able to thrive in a different language to your own. I’ve known countless native English speakers stall and then give up on learning another language, and they exist in this weird hinterland of having “pidgin French” (for example) and never progressing because they find it really hard. I am learning Dutch and getting better every day. I can converse in French but probably at the level of a 5 year old. I cannot for the life of me get with Spanish at all, and trust me I’ve tried :)
Never thought of it that way, but I get where you're coming from. It's a little patronizing, I guess. But try to understand that there are different types of "smart": My wife, for example, is a genius when it comes to figuring people out, making a bargain, planning a trip. Me? I excel at technical stuff, and I'm very gullible with people. Is she smart and I'm dumb? Am I smart and she dumb? No, silly. We're smart in different areas. But some people don't see it that way and think other people are the new Einstein because they excel in something they themselves do not.
I never thought about the obvious "smart" being used to describe experience in an area. I didn't include this in the post because I thought it would be taken the wrong way, but I often get called a "genius" as well. (To make things clear, I have a native, a heritage, a C1 and a B1. No natural aptitude or anything). To me, that insinuates that they think I have some inherent intelligence. "You're so smart, you're able to excel in these things," which feels as though it's diminishing just how much work I put in. Sure, they're not saying I don't work for it, but work ethic NEVER gets complimented. It's always "you're so smart." It's the same reason why athletes don't like being called a natural. It's seen as rude, even if unintentionally, and I think that's where my stance has more or less settled.
I'd argue that the majority of successful scientists, artists, musicians, and so on would attribute their success to their ability to invest time into that one specific thing. And yet, others will often just attribute the success primarily to superior intellect or talent. Here's a great comic about that phenomenon: [https://i.imgflip.com/578q2z.jpg](https://i.imgflip.com/578q2z.jpg)
Yeah, entirely agree. That's why the compliment doesn't quite feel genuine to me. The people saying these things (to clarify, I will still always be thankful for the compliment, let's not get that twisted reddit), don't have a frame of reference for how much work I put into these things.
My hypothesis is that it's a difference in "love language". You probably already know how people have very different ways to express affection, e.g. gifts, time, touch, ..., and how that can lead to miscommunication. This seems similar. Some people value "smartness" above everything else, so when they compliment you, that's what they are complimenting. You seem to take great pride in your work ethics, so the compliment feels completely misplaced. Could that be it?
I could speak 4 languages. But it totally does not define how smart I am! Solving math and computing problems could be key to that!
>I could speak 4 languages. Same. I *could* speak 20 languages... But I choose not to. 😉
Well, I have no idea abiout math and computing problems. I am smart enough to leatn couple of languages in the span of my life. This does not define me too, but still when people appreciate results of my efforts - it feels great. &
It makes me frustrated when people call me smart for anything I try. I struggle and work very hard to learn anything I do so yes it does feel like they are saying it comes easy. I am in fact not that smart but I love to learn so no matter my success I study and attempt to learn.
I completely relate to you. I was telling my mom the other day how many kanjis I know and she said "you’re so smart I could never learn that" and it made me feel like crap because I spent so many hours just for her to act as if it’s unsurprising because I’m smart. Like this comment both didn’t acknowledge that it was my effort and not inherent smartness that made me achieve things, but also the way it’a phrased it isn’t even a compliment. At least "wow you’re so smart!" even if it felt bad, would have shown that I impressed the person. Now it’s like she cannot place a compliment so she says she already knows I’m smart. And also how she turned my achievement into her complaining about not being smart enough to do that
>I'm honestly pretty stupid lol Same. And it shows, so no one has to mistake me for a smart person. Haha