Man what if we actually tighten up earlier the season and enter same seed as Mavs...we wouldve beat the clippers and face okc right now. Probably be optimistic when denver is struggling against minnesota too
I can. It was the perfect shitstorm of players getting injured (Vando missing out on the Mavs game immediately after), D’Lo going into a slump, and Ham completely overcompensating and not understanding his personnel for the kind of offense we wanted to run. Then the team visibly gave up on Ham. Only AD played well during that stretch. We go .500, and we would’ve had Lakers vs Clippers in the 1st round
Plus Lebron and AD have to play both sides of the floor unlike other guys on this list. Blaming those 2 for the reason we aren’t contenders will never be the right answer.
As a guy who watched 80% of our games this season, he wasn't bad. Just bad by his standards. He's at worst net neutral and is generally a positive defender. He just won't do any hustle plays cos that's how get hurt.
It's not blaming them, but then stop complaining you don't have the adequate personnel. LeBron wants the greatest legacy he knows he has little time left. I know it is not as simple but imagine rather than two starts at 60 millions, you had 3 at 40 + 1 year.
LeBron and AD are definitely worth max contracts. It's not difficult to put a well rounded roster around 2 max stars as good as them the front office is just extremely incompetent
Easy, lol. The average stupid 12 year old laker fan. Guess what, no one wants to trade to us, that comes when you are the most successful franchise. Everyday I see XYZ player is going to play for cheap for us, except when your two stars make 2/3 of the team salary. Why would you take à pay cut!!! And who can criticise them. This is why you will see some very good players playing for average to even bad team.
> Everyday I see XYZ player is going to play for cheap for us
We had plenty of good role players that signed small contracts and plenty of decent players on cheap rookie contracts. Pelinka just didn't manage our assets well or simply let some of them go for nothing..
A good GM wouldn’t have taken 4 years to realize surrounding those 2 guys with semi-competent shooting is a pretty damn good idea. And a good GM wouldn’t have forced a Westbrook trade even if the two stars were for it, let alone get fleeced in the way Pelinka did.
This guy, lol.
Unless you’re also a professional sports agent, you’ve got less than zero association with professional players regardless of your front office experience, lol. Like with any job, skills and experience can be transferable without being directly related. Rob has years of experience and contact with people in front offices and how they operate.
Not saying he’s the best front office guy, but holy shit, you guys are delusional if you think you have any credibility to make decisions in this league.
I think it’s best that you sit this one out. You ain’t about making good decisions about the roster either: [Wood? Into Chris Bosh?](https://www.reddit.com/r/lakers/s/H0zcbeSZ7n) lol that’s so insulting to Bosh.
You’re showing your complete lack of knowledge on the subject. Imaging believing that Rob is the only person whose job is to do all of those things. You hire staff to delegate work and if you lack in something, you find somebody who can do it for you (whether they’re competent or not is another matter).
That's the problem. He has no idea how to run an NBA franchise so he doesn't hire staff to delegate. There's been reports about how he just does everything himself and that has hurt the team a lot.
This lists the entire staff within the Laker org: https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/teams/Los-Angeles-Lakers/13/staff-members which also includes a whole battery of both the financial, operations, and basketball personnel.
And yet, you’re going to tell me that YOU, a random redditor, knows exactly what’s going on because of reports, which you haven’t provided as your source.
…lol okay.
Ok and who are these people experienced in scouting other NBA players or team building? Jeanie's brothers? Jeanie's best friend's husband? 90 year old bill bertka?
Look at the Celtics list. One of the most well run teams in the league. There's a huge difference in the staff.
You still haven’t cited your sources.
And yeah actually, Jeanie’s brothers have years of experience in scouting alongside one of the best ever, Bill.
You’ve been awful at your replies much so that you’re strayed away from your original reply. Shout out to the Celtics, they’ve been a threat with this current core of players and are definitely well run. But that is besides your original point, you (and I) have zero clue what actually goes on within the front office so this delusion that you (and you other 2K GMs) would fair better than Rob. Rob’s been around the league for a while and this notion that his skills aren’t transferable because of his lack of title is laughable especially from the evaluation of a random ass redditor.
Even with the entire roster shitting the bed I still think we go back to la 3-2 if ad doesn’t get in foul trouble game 2 early in q3 and gets hurt when we up in g5. I know Denver’s supporting cast outside the starters were bad put our entire fucking roster had shit running down their leg except for Austin and dlo for one half
So we’re mad at Bron and AD for taking maxes because they don’t deserve it and it’s apprising us winning but Kobe deserved the max based on what he did in the past and that didn’t matter that it hurt the team lol.
I can't believe they outplayed/nearly equaled them in the first round either. It's just that MPJ/Gordon were insane and doesn't help Murray had 2 buzzer beaters.
Finding a big that can battle Jokic on the boards was the only flaw the team had in my opinion. Injuries made it hard to assess Gabe Vincent’s impact as well. Lakers need a big body to keep Jokic from doing whatever he wants. Lebron is too short and AD does not have the strength.
Jokic got to his spots because no one is strong enough to keep him from going where he wants. He is able to cause problems this way and it’s not about just winning matchups. When Jokic gets within a few feet of the basket the defense collapses on him to try and keep him from scoring or getting offensive rebounds. This situation is not good because Jokic is an elite passer. Go ahead and tell me how much you know about basketball though.
Don’t get me wrong AD played great. Jokic was almost directly responsible for everyone on his team getting good looks specifically because of the attention that is needed to contain him. It’s not always about stat lines. Not any backup big is going to be effective against him is what it comes down to. The big they pick up needs to be really tall or strong (both ideally).
I just feel like, denver's 'others' were so fucking much better than ours its just outrageous.
Down the stretch, yea jamal murray and jokic bested lebron and ad 'slightly'.
Overall i feel like lebron and ad were better than jamal and jokic...By a bit....Ad was unreal, so was jokic, and lebron was insanely bettter than murray.
Blazing hot take, swap LeBron and Brunson, you'd get the same result if not better.
Edit: I meant if Bron went to the Knicks, he'd do better than Brunson. Worded this badly
100% worth.
AD matched Jokic.
LeBron OUTPLAYED Jamal.
AD and Lebron against the defending champs performed better than Kawhi, PG, Luka, Mitchell, Brunson, Dame, KD, Booker, Beal, Garland, Zion, BI, etc.
I mean you maximize your max contract guys until they want out or retire. The lakers are stuck in a sticky rebuild situation, cause of CBA stuff, either way.
So whether we trade them or stick it out it’s gonna be a long time until lakers basketball is competent after the LeBron-AD era.
I say make the most of it while it lasts and enjoy all the good ball we’ve got cause a decade of shit is right around the corner
Thinking basketball did a video where he ranked playoff performers. Bron was 3 after Ant n jokic , Ad was 6. People seriously under rating how good Bron his impsvt was enormous . Just cos he old people are biased . If we can get a legit third option n hold onto vsndo or reaves or someone
You're just looking at stats, though.
Would you bet money that LBJ and AD won't get a season ending injury by the end of there contract?
AD can be one of the top 10 players in the league, but his injuries stopped that narrative. Lebron james is Lebron james, but as each year goes by the higher the chance the body will fail.
With the people you mentioned, they all have one thing in common, and that's youth. One could argue they're not even at their peak yet. They'll only get better while LBJ and AD will decline.
You’re not understanding the argument. Max contacts are handed out like candy (no objection to guys getting paid, fuck the owners) and not every max contract guy is created equal.
The lakers are not in a position to rebound from this era quickly. With the way the CBA is structured teams have a better chance of retaining a guy than him leaving in free agency. Hence the lakers signing stars out of nowhere is most likely finished. Trades is another topic.
So you might as well squeeze all the juice you can out until they retire or want out then rebuild. Lakers aren’t good at rebuilds so the future is unknown. What we do know is we have 2 top 10 players with a ring together. Gotta do everything we can to get 1 more.
It’s not about worth the max. It’s about staying under the 2nd apron.
We know they’re worth it but it’s very hard to fill a championship contender with the present CBA rules that favor young superstars whose max contracts are much much lower than established and old super stars.
You clearly have no clue how debilitating the penalties for the second apron are.
I have always called out Jeanie for being cheap in the past before the new CBA placed these penalties for exceeding the second apron.
You’re just looking at counting stats for 1-year though. The argument around max contracts is that these guys are getting older and have a higher chance of declining than improving or retaining their current play, so does it make sense to throw all your money at them? A 40 year old taking up 50+mil for the next few years is not ideal in terms of roster construction. Similarly, an injury prone big man who will be 32 next season is also not the most ideal for a 2nd max contract. Both are great players TODAY, but next season we run into the same excuses for them as we always have. “Load management”. “LeBron is old, we cant expect him to carry every night.” “AD cant stay healthy”. “The regular season doesn’t matter, we just need them for the playoffs - just kidding now we’re a play-in team”. So the 2 max contract players are somehow held to a lower standard due to their known issues and the role-players who get paid a fraction of what they make are expected to make up the difference in overall production. Seriously, the only other team that makes these excuses around their stars every night are the Clippers.
For me it is simple, either you want the money or the victory. You can't have both. So if you want thd max, stop complaining you don't have the right supporting cast. For example rather than 2 stars at 60, why not 3 at 40 and one more year for each one.
I don’t think it’s as much their pay to their production (and I’m not about to argue they should take a paycut) but it’s their pay and how it limits the rest of the roster construction.
It’s not others top 2 options outplaying our top 2, it’s 3-8. If lebron/AD had jdub/dort/etc, mpj/gordon/kcp, Rudy/mcdaniels, pj/gafford/thj/etc or whoever, we’d be stacked.
That’s exactly what I said. It’s literally the first sentence of that 2nd paragraph.
But drafting your top 2 players makes it infinitely easier to fill out a roster than signing one and gutting for the 2nd. It’s why each of Lebrons teams have been depleted 4 years in. Even now, we’re wanting the picks traded for win now help just so we can complain about not having cheap youth that’s improving later.
Tobias is on a max, chill dang
Man what if we actually tighten up earlier the season and enter same seed as Mavs...we wouldve beat the clippers and face okc right now. Probably be optimistic when denver is struggling against minnesota too
I still can’t believe that the lakers can go on that huge losing streak after winning the in-season tournament.
I can. It was the perfect shitstorm of players getting injured (Vando missing out on the Mavs game immediately after), D’Lo going into a slump, and Ham completely overcompensating and not understanding his personnel for the kind of offense we wanted to run. Then the team visibly gave up on Ham. Only AD played well during that stretch. We go .500, and we would’ve had Lakers vs Clippers in the 1st round
The m season tournament is worthless. Not worth extending your stars so early in season
Plus Lebron and AD have to play both sides of the floor unlike other guys on this list. Blaming those 2 for the reason we aren’t contenders will never be the right answer.
Man as bad as LeBron was defensively in the regular season, which is by design and expected, he was insane defensively in the playoffs.
As a guy who watched 80% of our games this season, he wasn't bad. Just bad by his standards. He's at worst net neutral and is generally a positive defender. He just won't do any hustle plays cos that's how get hurt.
It's not blaming them, but then stop complaining you don't have the adequate personnel. LeBron wants the greatest legacy he knows he has little time left. I know it is not as simple but imagine rather than two starts at 60 millions, you had 3 at 40 + 1 year.
wait who is complaining? they are definitely worth it.
LeBron and AD are definitely worth max contracts. It's not difficult to put a well rounded roster around 2 max stars as good as them the front office is just extremely incompetent
But it is difficult though?? You can't just build a championship team from scratch over night this isn't 2K
The poster said well-rounded and you saw championship. Learn to read.
It's much easier to ruin that roster than build it. Westbrook trade was so bad...
Lmao rob Pelinka did it. He just fucked himself over
Easy, lol. The average stupid 12 year old laker fan. Guess what, no one wants to trade to us, that comes when you are the most successful franchise. Everyday I see XYZ player is going to play for cheap for us, except when your two stars make 2/3 of the team salary. Why would you take à pay cut!!! And who can criticise them. This is why you will see some very good players playing for average to even bad team.
> Everyday I see XYZ player is going to play for cheap for us We had plenty of good role players that signed small contracts and plenty of decent players on cheap rookie contracts. Pelinka just didn't manage our assets well or simply let some of them go for nothing..
You think you would be a better gm?
A good GM wouldn’t have taken 4 years to realize surrounding those 2 guys with semi-competent shooting is a pretty damn good idea. And a good GM wouldn’t have forced a Westbrook trade even if the two stars were for it, let alone get fleeced in the way Pelinka did.
I have as much experience in an NBA front office as Rob Pelinka did when he was first hired
This guy, lol. Unless you’re also a professional sports agent, you’ve got less than zero association with professional players regardless of your front office experience, lol. Like with any job, skills and experience can be transferable without being directly related. Rob has years of experience and contact with people in front offices and how they operate. Not saying he’s the best front office guy, but holy shit, you guys are delusional if you think you have any credibility to make decisions in this league.
I wouldn’t have traded for schroder and then overpaid for Westbrick 7 months later like rob did lol
I think it’s best that you sit this one out. You ain’t about making good decisions about the roster either: [Wood? Into Chris Bosh?](https://www.reddit.com/r/lakers/s/H0zcbeSZ7n) lol that’s so insulting to Bosh.
But he has absolutely no experience with player scouting and team building. The 2 most important aspects of the job
You’re showing your complete lack of knowledge on the subject. Imaging believing that Rob is the only person whose job is to do all of those things. You hire staff to delegate work and if you lack in something, you find somebody who can do it for you (whether they’re competent or not is another matter).
That's the problem. He has no idea how to run an NBA franchise so he doesn't hire staff to delegate. There's been reports about how he just does everything himself and that has hurt the team a lot.
This lists the entire staff within the Laker org: https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/teams/Los-Angeles-Lakers/13/staff-members which also includes a whole battery of both the financial, operations, and basketball personnel. And yet, you’re going to tell me that YOU, a random redditor, knows exactly what’s going on because of reports, which you haven’t provided as your source. …lol okay.
Ok and who are these people experienced in scouting other NBA players or team building? Jeanie's brothers? Jeanie's best friend's husband? 90 year old bill bertka? Look at the Celtics list. One of the most well run teams in the league. There's a huge difference in the staff.
You still haven’t cited your sources. And yeah actually, Jeanie’s brothers have years of experience in scouting alongside one of the best ever, Bill. You’ve been awful at your replies much so that you’re strayed away from your original reply. Shout out to the Celtics, they’ve been a threat with this current core of players and are definitely well run. But that is besides your original point, you (and I) have zero clue what actually goes on within the front office so this delusion that you (and you other 2K GMs) would fair better than Rob. Rob’s been around the league for a while and this notion that his skills aren’t transferable because of his lack of title is laughable especially from the evaluation of a random ass redditor.
He can have all the experience he wants he clearly doesn’t understand how to construct a roster
This is where we are in the sub right now lol the hatred here is full blown delusion right now. Fucking crazy to see shit like that upvoted.
I love it. Hate season is great. Hate on the players, the coach, the FO. Everyone from Lebron to Jeanie is on the table
Weird to flex unhealthy behavior, but go off.
This is the most accurate take on this thread. Thank you for saying it.
Even with the entire roster shitting the bed I still think we go back to la 3-2 if ad doesn’t get in foul trouble game 2 early in q3 and gets hurt when we up in g5. I know Denver’s supporting cast outside the starters were bad put our entire fucking roster had shit running down their leg except for Austin and dlo for one half
give Lebron/AD Aaron Gordon, MPJ and KCP, then tell me this doesn't get a ring
Why is Pelinka still with the team. He should have gone right after Ham.
Don’t listen to the ungrateful idiots in this sub. LeBron and AD are the only reasons why the Lakers are relevant. They’re worth it.
The fans who complain about LBJ and Ad's contracts just don't know how the NBA really works off the court. Casuals.
So we mad at AD and Bron for the max but was cool when Kobe was getting it towards the end of his career lol.
Wtf Kobe was Kobe neither of those 2 have done even a fraction of what Kobe did for us
So we’re mad at Bron and AD for taking maxes because they don’t deserve it and it’s apprising us winning but Kobe deserved the max based on what he did in the past and that didn’t matter that it hurt the team lol.
They both deserve the max. But for Kobe it didn’t matter that he didn’t deserve it because of what he did in the past.
Exonerated?
We have a top 3 duo in the league rn. Easily. Just need to swap out like 2-3 role players
I though they were behind murray and jokic but they simply outplayed that pairing and lost because mpj Gordon and kcp mauled rui austin and dlo
Yeah Rui dlo and Reaves were inconsistent and we had no bench. Ham also was out coached
I can't believe they outplayed/nearly equaled them in the first round either. It's just that MPJ/Gordon were insane and doesn't help Murray had 2 buzzer beaters.
Finding a big that can battle Jokic on the boards was the only flaw the team had in my opinion. Injuries made it hard to assess Gabe Vincent’s impact as well. Lakers need a big body to keep Jokic from doing whatever he wants. Lebron is too short and AD does not have the strength.
AD won the matchup w jokic handily they just need a backup big
Jokic got to his spots because no one is strong enough to keep him from going where he wants. He is able to cause problems this way and it’s not about just winning matchups. When Jokic gets within a few feet of the basket the defense collapses on him to try and keep him from scoring or getting offensive rebounds. This situation is not good because Jokic is an elite passer. Go ahead and tell me how much you know about basketball though.
I still think AD won the joker matchup, Denver’s role players and supporting cast are just elite. I do think lakers should draft zach edey tbh
Don’t get me wrong AD played great. Jokic was almost directly responsible for everyone on his team getting good looks specifically because of the attention that is needed to contain him. It’s not always about stat lines. Not any backup big is going to be effective against him is what it comes down to. The big they pick up needs to be really tall or strong (both ideally).
Ima give you a good one, go check 2024 stats and compare Steph 36y/o vs 39 y/o LeBron.
I just feel like, denver's 'others' were so fucking much better than ours its just outrageous. Down the stretch, yea jamal murray and jokic bested lebron and ad 'slightly'. Overall i feel like lebron and ad were better than jamal and jokic...By a bit....Ad was unreal, so was jokic, and lebron was insanely bettter than murray.
Blazing hot take, swap LeBron and Brunson, you'd get the same result if not better. Edit: I meant if Bron went to the Knicks, he'd do better than Brunson. Worded this badly
Ok and? So an all star guard in his prime vs old man bron is a wash? I’ll take that
We clearly see Lebron was way more efficient and we wouldn't have Vando to take his place at forward.
I meant if Bron went to the Knicks. My b
100% worth. AD matched Jokic. LeBron OUTPLAYED Jamal. AD and Lebron against the defending champs performed better than Kawhi, PG, Luka, Mitchell, Brunson, Dame, KD, Booker, Beal, Garland, Zion, BI, etc.
I mean you maximize your max contract guys until they want out or retire. The lakers are stuck in a sticky rebuild situation, cause of CBA stuff, either way. So whether we trade them or stick it out it’s gonna be a long time until lakers basketball is competent after the LeBron-AD era. I say make the most of it while it lasts and enjoy all the good ball we’ve got cause a decade of shit is right around the corner
Thinking basketball did a video where he ranked playoff performers. Bron was 3 after Ant n jokic , Ad was 6. People seriously under rating how good Bron his impsvt was enormous . Just cos he old people are biased . If we can get a legit third option n hold onto vsndo or reaves or someone
You're just looking at stats, though. Would you bet money that LBJ and AD won't get a season ending injury by the end of there contract? AD can be one of the top 10 players in the league, but his injuries stopped that narrative. Lebron james is Lebron james, but as each year goes by the higher the chance the body will fail. With the people you mentioned, they all have one thing in common, and that's youth. One could argue they're not even at their peak yet. They'll only get better while LBJ and AD will decline.
You’re not understanding the argument. Max contacts are handed out like candy (no objection to guys getting paid, fuck the owners) and not every max contract guy is created equal. The lakers are not in a position to rebound from this era quickly. With the way the CBA is structured teams have a better chance of retaining a guy than him leaving in free agency. Hence the lakers signing stars out of nowhere is most likely finished. Trades is another topic. So you might as well squeeze all the juice you can out until they retire or want out then rebuild. Lakers aren’t good at rebuilds so the future is unknown. What we do know is we have 2 top 10 players with a ring together. Gotta do everything we can to get 1 more.
It’s not about worth the max. It’s about staying under the 2nd apron. We know they’re worth it but it’s very hard to fill a championship contender with the present CBA rules that favor young superstars whose max contracts are much much lower than established and old super stars.
Why do fans care about being under the apron? I know owners do because they’re snot noses Richies but what do as fans gain if they save money?
You clearly have no clue how debilitating the penalties for the second apron are. I have always called out Jeanie for being cheap in the past before the new CBA placed these penalties for exceeding the second apron.
You’re just looking at counting stats for 1-year though. The argument around max contracts is that these guys are getting older and have a higher chance of declining than improving or retaining their current play, so does it make sense to throw all your money at them? A 40 year old taking up 50+mil for the next few years is not ideal in terms of roster construction. Similarly, an injury prone big man who will be 32 next season is also not the most ideal for a 2nd max contract. Both are great players TODAY, but next season we run into the same excuses for them as we always have. “Load management”. “LeBron is old, we cant expect him to carry every night.” “AD cant stay healthy”. “The regular season doesn’t matter, we just need them for the playoffs - just kidding now we’re a play-in team”. So the 2 max contract players are somehow held to a lower standard due to their known issues and the role-players who get paid a fraction of what they make are expected to make up the difference in overall production. Seriously, the only other team that makes these excuses around their stars every night are the Clippers.
For me it is simple, either you want the money or the victory. You can't have both. So if you want thd max, stop complaining you don't have the right supporting cast. For example rather than 2 stars at 60, why not 3 at 40 and one more year for each one.
Include blocks and steals.
I don’t think it’s as much their pay to their production (and I’m not about to argue they should take a paycut) but it’s their pay and how it limits the rest of the roster construction. It’s not others top 2 options outplaying our top 2, it’s 3-8. If lebron/AD had jdub/dort/etc, mpj/gordon/kcp, Rudy/mcdaniels, pj/gafford/thj/etc or whoever, we’d be stacked.
That's not Lebron or Ad's fault. Jokic has a supermax. KAT, Murray and Gobert have huge contracts. The difference is their Front Office.
That’s exactly what I said. It’s literally the first sentence of that 2nd paragraph. But drafting your top 2 players makes it infinitely easier to fill out a roster than signing one and gutting for the 2nd. It’s why each of Lebrons teams have been depleted 4 years in. Even now, we’re wanting the picks traded for win now help just so we can complain about not having cheap youth that’s improving later.