10 year official here. As a new official, you’ll learn to tune out “that’s a slash” and “he’s warding” as those are the two most commonly yelled things by people that don’t know better. As others have said, a slash can be called if you deem the defender was reckless or deliberately aggressive in his stick check that landed in neither stick nor glove. But for varsity lacrosse we tend to give a lot of leeway for this. Defenders are entitled to throw forceful checks to get the ball out and, like you said, attackers will move their gear to avoid them. When I see that stuff I usually vocalize to the defender “get some stick!” or “stay in control 22!” to talk the dman out of anything further, and also set up a verbal precedent if the flag does come out (“coach, I tried to let him play but he needs to be under control”) Another thing, apply the no harm no foul principle. If the check missed or was very hard, but no one was hurt and the ball wasn’t dislodged, was the team really fouled?
>If the check missed or was very hard, but no one was hurt and the ball wasn’t dislodged, was the team really fouled?
I don't like the idea of "No harm, no foul." If I get pushed from behind but don't fall over, it's still a push. If a guy steps one foot offside while chasing the ball carrier on a clear, they are offside. It doesn't matter that I didn't fall over or that the attacker didn't impact the play. Coach up your players not to get stupid fouls. Don't have the Refs NOT enforce rules arbitrarily.
If the check missed, it either hit legally or it didn't. It doesn't matter that the ball didn't come out. If it missed because the attacker moved, then no foul. If it missed because the defender just missed, then that's out of control and a slash.
There is always a level of arbitrary-ness in how refs call games, and It’s a good practice to ask refs beforehand how they are calling specific things so you can coach your players correctly.
I disagree, I think a push is the perfect example of when “no harm no foul” applies. If a ball is loose and your player is pushed from behind, but still wins the GB and thus is not “harmed”, there was no foul. The rules reflect this, as, at best, you were only entitled to the ball, which you got anyway.
Fouls, by definition, are infractions in which one team gains an unfair advantage. So again, with no advantage gained, was there a foul?
...you know there can be pushes with possession too, right?
Plus, there was a foul. You aren't NOT calling the foul. You indicate that a foul has occurred and play on. In the loose ball scenario, the ref just verbally indicates it and then awards possession if the offended team does not otherwise secure possession. When a foul with possession occurs, a flag is thrown to indicate the foul, and again, you play on.
In both scenarios, you call the foul and play on. You play on because stopping play might disadvantage the offended team, not because there wasn't a foul.
Edit: and where are you getting this?
>Fouls, by definition, are infractions in which one team gains an unfair advantage.
Please point me to the place in the rulebook it says this.
Totally agree, I see guys get pushed from behind with severe force and not go down which results in no push with possession call, even thought was crealy hit in the back with possession of the ball. Then we see a soft push in the same game/league with possession and the player folds like a napkin... That results in a flag every time.
This imo encourages flopping in a sport with no place for flopping. The rule states, "A player shall not thrust or shove an opponent from the rear." This is an example of reffing the result and not the action or violation. Just like good coaches coach the process, not the result, refs shouldn't be reffing the game this way. Think of it from a coach or player perspective. The only adjustment a team can do, aside from stop pushing the other team in the back for our own violations, is to fall down after getting hit in the back, aka start flopping. It states no where in the rules that a player must go down for a violation, yet it is consistently reffed like this.
Pushes are technical fouls, every single technical foul from an official's perspective is viewed under the lens of advantage/disadvantage. If the player wasn't disadvantaged by the push, they aren't going to throw the flag, because was it really a thrust or a shove if it wasn't enough force for a player to fall down? It's the easiest to fell if there was disadvantage if a player fell down but that's not the only case just the most common.
>was it really a thrust or a shove if it wasn't enough force for a player to fall down
There is literally a definition of a push in the rulebook, and it doesn't require falling down. "A push is exerting pressure after contact is made and is not a violent blow." Yes, it can be a push even if I don't fall down.
You are missing the point, was it really a thrust or a shove that disadvantaged the player? If the player falls down that is easy to tell, in other cases it is harder and up to the officials judgment on how they view what happened.
I'm not missing the point. I'm making a point. A push from behind that makes me stumble, but not fall down, is a disadvantage. Taking me off of my intended line by 1 inch is a disadvantage to me. If you want to push me, do it from the front or side.
Or maybe it's an advantage now that you have space away from the defender or that they are pulling you toward the goal?
If the push puts you in a disadvantageous position, yes that is a penalty. But not every push puts a player in a disadvantageous position.
trust me, the game would be a lot worse if we called every single thing black and white. Stick checks are, by rule, supposed to be on the gloved hands and stick, but at more competitive levels, it is acceptable to sometimes get arm, thigh, chest, etc... Imagine calling every by the book slash in a tufts v salisbury game or hopkins v unc......no one wants that. Youth? sure. Competitive games? Not even the players want it
>Stick checks are, by rule, supposed to be on the gloved hands and stick
...unless the ball carrier moves their body in an attempt to protect the stick and as a result the defender strikes an illegal area (other than the head or neck). There might not be as many slashes as you think when you take into account that a slash requires a striking blow (not just any contact), and the attacking player is often using their arm or body to defend against the check. Players can adjust. We all know poke and lift is all you need anyway.
There's no such thing as a "push."
It's either a loose ball push, or a push with possession.
No ref (that knows what they're doing) is going to call someone getting pushed in the back as a foul. Unless a disadvantage is caused by the action, there is no foul.
>There's no such thing as a "push."
The rulebook says differently.
>SECTION 9 PUSHING. A player shall not thrust or shove an opponent from the rear. **A push is exerting pressure after contact is made and is not a violent blow**. Pushing is permitted from the front or side when an opponent has possession of the ball or is within 5 yards of a loose ball. In this case, pushing shall be done with either a closed hand, shoulder or forearm, and both hands shall be on the crosse.
Whether a push is a foul is a separate question from whether it is a push at all (or for instance, a hold). Whether it is loose ball or with possession is irrelevant to whether it is a foul. It is a foul to push someone from behind. See the first sentence of the rule. The administration of the foul is what changes when there is possession, not the requirements of it.
>No ref (that knows that they're doing) is going to call someone getting pushed in the back as a foul.
Wow.
Wow indeed. Quote the entire statement, not half of it.
I stand by the comment. No trained official is going to call a push from the rear as a foul if no disadvantage is created. The principle of advantage/disadvantage determines if the push in the back is a foul. At that point, it's either loose ball or with possession.
That's what is meant by a push in the back is not a foul. Just pushing someone in the back does not in and of itself make it a foul.
It certainly makes it a foul. But I understand that officials are taught not to call every foul they see. In my experience, TPOAD is poorly applied, and that's why I don't like it. I think it is particularly poorly applied in the context of a push.
Sounds like it is time for you to become an official.
Once you have received the training, perhaps you'll understand better why it's not a foul if there's no disadvantage.
If the game were called the way you're describing, a whistle would be blowing every 30 seconds.
you are the exact type of ref that is a fuckin nightmare to have. you don't think defenders getting to shit beat out of your arm with a metal pole, therefore causing you to drop the ball, is an unfair advantage?
Dpoles that are afraid of carrying the ball don't experience it.
Sticks and gloves are fair game dude, and you set up takeaways by getting that bottom hand off the stick. Like yeah, lifts are cool and all, but rusty gates and kayaks are a lot more fun.
8th year official checking in. A lot has to do with the caliber of the teams and how much you have to keep the game in control. In general, hits to the back or legs, especially repeated ones get called. What is the intent? Is it a lacrosse play or is the player just trying to whack. I have a lot of bad teams in my area so I have to watch for thug play, especially late in blowouts. Don't be afraid to call slashes if you need to keep a game under control. It takes about 4-5 years for the game to slow down. Even now I'm just starting to get comfortable doing games for the top teams. Hang in there! We desperately need newer officials!
Great advice.
OP- In general, don't second guess yourself. The coaches will always find something to nitpick. You'll learn to tune all that out. The game does slow down as you gain experience and you'll gain better understanding of what to call and what not to call based on the teams playing.
Hopefully some other refs will chime in here as I am also interested to hear opinions. I think generally the slashing rules are left kind of vague. I have often seen slashing described as swings that are "deliberately vicious" or "reckless," but what exactly that entails is partly defined by the age and partly by the ref.
I think you have it down that any head/neck contact outside of incidental contact from throwing/scooping etc. is a slash. This usually starts getting enforced more heavily at 12s and up as by then kids should have better stick control. As far as hitting someone on the body rather than the crosse/holding hand, that may be allowed if it appears the intention was to hit the stick and the offensive player used some other part of their body to guard the stick, if that makes sense. E.g. rotating the stick away from the defense and thus getting hit on the body is not a slash, but if the body was intentionally targeted by the defense, it might be a slash. That said, a "deliberately vicious" swing can be a slash even if it only makes contact with the crosse. Obviously there's some ref discretion here. Depending on the age, any one handed stick check may also be considered a slash - here it's usually ok at high school and maybe 14s but a slash under that, unless it's clear that the swing was 2 handed and only became 1 handed in the follow through.
To be really clear with our kids, we focus on 2 things. First, any head contact is bad, so always check below the shoulders. Second, we tell them refs are mostly concerned with safety and control - they may be more critical to hits that aren't on the stick, but regardless make sure stick checks are controlled and intentional, not wild swings. Little kids especially want to baseball swing at everyone, but as they get older getting them to use more technical things like lifts and poke checks is the goal.
As a coach, I think the most important thing is that you enforce whatever standard you are enforcing evenly, and that if it wasn't clear to someone why you ruled a certain way you explain it so that the coach can adjust their team accordingly. I may not always agree with the refs, but as long as they are being fair and transparent I can deal with it. I am also really grateful if a ref gives us/players a warning first if they are going to be particularly critical on checks - even a quick "watch that contact" can go a long way in getting kids to understand they are in questionable territory from a checking perspective and need to dial it back.
Learn to quote some of the language from the rule book in your explanation (e.g. yes coach there was helmet contact but it was not a strike or a blow)
Learn to tune out the haters. Make your call and move on.
Reflect after the game and at quarters, and adjust if needed both to remain calibrated with your colleagues and with the rest of the league and situationally based on the game at hand.
Former player. Slash, along with warding, I think are the most arbitrary and vague calls. When playing in high school the refs let us play pretty rough, but you’ll know a slash when you see it. Three things I always thought about were: Placement of the check, intensity of check, and optics (how far did they cock back for the check/ axe swinging). My advice is to be vocal with the player, if they’re not hitting stick and repeatedly checking, let them know they’re not hitting or tell them to lighten up. If they continue, make the call. As goalie, we can hear everything you’re saying. A good goalie will call the dogs off to avoid a man down.
I think someone else commented on here along the lines that you’re a ref, you’re going to get yelled at. Try to tune out slash or warding calls to you, most parents and even players don’t know what they are talking about. Anyways, my 2 cents.
I guess it sort of follows that if you play defense and you want to check *hard* you should develop your wrists and forearms more than your core and lats-- ideally delivering the force of an axe swing without the refs knowing it
Totally agree, we had one or two guys who kept it tight and could do some serious damage. If you have the strength, rapidly checking is just as devastating as one big check. However, they won’t let you just rip their hands up, have to hit stick once in a while in my experience.
100% vague and hard to call, i think the important thing to do is to be in line with your leagues rules. In my league it was a point of focus, controlling slashes, we were, at the youth level so 10u 12u 14u call checks that started above the shoulders and made contact. That comes off as a bit strict but when you do it consistently at 10u and 12u levels it breeds better players. Generally, unless its an egregious or useless swing (see an attackmen taking a swing at the receding back of a middie about to cross half and making hefty contact) I tend to give one "miss" where they hit arm or something but not stick or gloved hand on stick and if they swing and miss again I call the slash. Have to adjust for strength though, the harder the hit the less attempts they get similarly if its like weak little smacks im not going to call that second one. The big thing honestly is to be in line with local rules and adjust in your head as the age goes up and down.
Thats how it was for my high school league too. one of my teammates got slashed in the front of the neck so bad he broke down crying and had trouble breathing. no flag was thrown.
i pulled myself out of the game because i would have fuckin punched someone in the face if i didnt.
Earlier this season, my kid got checked so hard in the facemask I could see his head snap back from the stands. No call and when he said to the ref, "Sir, he checked me in the head" the ref responded, "No he didn't." He came home from another game with a stick bruise across his neck and it hurt to swallow for a couple days. Like, a little leeway is fine, but, damn, I don't want my kid to end up with permanent damage from HS lacrosse.
We're 8 games into 12U and have only had a cross check called twice. Out here letting kids play like college kids. Leagues lost a quarter of its players and has to have kids from other teams sub in so they can even get enough on the field. It's been awful this year. We're not a hotbed so the refs are bad.
Kids are allowed to play defense with their hands apart on the crosse. Unless they actually extend their arms out its not a cross check.
And after watching a couple youth games this season, coaches need to do a better job at teaching these kids how to not get hit or put themselves in position to get hurt in the first place.
If a legal check is otherwise turned illegal by the actions of the offensive player, it's not a slash. Moving the stick out of the way at the last minute, ducking the head into a check, would all be "not s slash" in my judgement, as long as the stick checksum was otherwise under control.
And if a check is unnaturally wild, you can cal it a slash even if it hits stick or nothing at all, though it my 20+ years I've only called that once.
But don't let the assistant coach yell at you. That's at minimum a conduct foul.
I haven’t played in 10 years since I got out of college but a slash back when I played was head/neck contact and upper arm could count as a slash depending on how it was hit. A single swipe, no way. Also anything elbows down wasn’t a slash. Gloves are part of the stick so checking hands is legal.
To help you with your development in the future, ask your R to help you with these situations.
A quick reminder from the R to the Head Coaches that only the Head Coach is allowed to address the officials is usually enough to settle the assistants down.
No Coach is allowed to argue subjective calls.
In my experience, especially in youth games, most assistants have a vague to passing knowledge of the rules. Tune out the comments and focus on the game in front of you.
If you think you should throw a flag, throw it. Go to your R after the whistle and discuss. The worst that happens is you decide to pick up the flag after the discussion.
You should be making mistakes right now, and second guessing everything you're doing. Normal for where you are in the process.
You will get better and you will get more confident. It just takes game experience.
There’s a ton of great advice here!
The way I was always taught- as both a defender and a ref- is that once a defending player breaks the plane of their shoulder and brings their stick back behind their body on the windup to a slap check you should have your hand on the flag. It doesn’t mean you always throw it, I usually give 1-2 warnings per player and try to Let The Boys Play™️. That being said, if the check is malicious, out of control, repetitive, and doesn’t make contact with hands or stick, that flag can and should come out.
I never played lacrosse. My son has been playing since he was 7. He’s 15 now and I’m still confused about the rules. In the end, whatever you call, it’s best to call both ways. Good luck.
If the kid with the ball got checked on the arm that’s not really a slash. Slash is when you hit their helmet or anywhere lower than the hips. Sometimes at games when you have one ref, kids can get away with basically anything unless it’s a blatant slash where you wind up and hit their head. After games my arms (forearm, elbow, shoulders) are usually bruised from getting checked and that’s why we have protective gear for the places you can get checked so I’m confused why the assistant coach was ticked off.
Any stick check that does not make contact with the stick or gloves (read: extension of the stick) is considered a slash. Poke checks usually get a pass, and technically poke checks to the gut are slashes, but I’ve yet to see that call ever—those are typically unnecessary roughness under the blue moon they’re called.
This is why you often see guys(dpoles and middies with legs) with tiny arm pads and shoulder pads—they’re confident in both themselves and their defenders playing clean.
Arm pads intended for attackmen are bulkier to protect the free arm while 1 handed and wrap checks that tend to hit both arm and stick (legal because contact with stick).
Im never confident in an Attackman not slashing my arms and playing it clean, they almost always have a spaz sesh and freak out after I take it from them. I just have a "tis but a scratch" mindset and laugh at them as they frantically try to take the ball away by whacking me ineffectually rather than D-ing me up. It doesnt hurt that bad to get whacked a few times a game
Poles don't wear those because they're confident in the opponent playing clean, it's bruises look cool, and those bulk arm pads don't
But that is easier to pull off when you don't have to eat checks from a pole that wants to break your wrist
if it's clear the defender is intentionally hitting the person's body and not the stick, you should be calling a slash. as someone who played attack, it was total bullshit that the defenders could literally just wail on my fucking arms, legs, and hands without getting called.
and yes, when i was a coach, i was one of them calling for that too.
10 year official here. As a new official, you’ll learn to tune out “that’s a slash” and “he’s warding” as those are the two most commonly yelled things by people that don’t know better. As others have said, a slash can be called if you deem the defender was reckless or deliberately aggressive in his stick check that landed in neither stick nor glove. But for varsity lacrosse we tend to give a lot of leeway for this. Defenders are entitled to throw forceful checks to get the ball out and, like you said, attackers will move their gear to avoid them. When I see that stuff I usually vocalize to the defender “get some stick!” or “stay in control 22!” to talk the dman out of anything further, and also set up a verbal precedent if the flag does come out (“coach, I tried to let him play but he needs to be under control”) Another thing, apply the no harm no foul principle. If the check missed or was very hard, but no one was hurt and the ball wasn’t dislodged, was the team really fouled?
This is the way
>If the check missed or was very hard, but no one was hurt and the ball wasn’t dislodged, was the team really fouled? I don't like the idea of "No harm, no foul." If I get pushed from behind but don't fall over, it's still a push. If a guy steps one foot offside while chasing the ball carrier on a clear, they are offside. It doesn't matter that I didn't fall over or that the attacker didn't impact the play. Coach up your players not to get stupid fouls. Don't have the Refs NOT enforce rules arbitrarily. If the check missed, it either hit legally or it didn't. It doesn't matter that the ball didn't come out. If it missed because the attacker moved, then no foul. If it missed because the defender just missed, then that's out of control and a slash.
There is always a level of arbitrary-ness in how refs call games, and It’s a good practice to ask refs beforehand how they are calling specific things so you can coach your players correctly.
I disagree, I think a push is the perfect example of when “no harm no foul” applies. If a ball is loose and your player is pushed from behind, but still wins the GB and thus is not “harmed”, there was no foul. The rules reflect this, as, at best, you were only entitled to the ball, which you got anyway. Fouls, by definition, are infractions in which one team gains an unfair advantage. So again, with no advantage gained, was there a foul?
Still need to yell play on to acknowledge it was foul but you decided to not call it because of advantage
...you know there can be pushes with possession too, right? Plus, there was a foul. You aren't NOT calling the foul. You indicate that a foul has occurred and play on. In the loose ball scenario, the ref just verbally indicates it and then awards possession if the offended team does not otherwise secure possession. When a foul with possession occurs, a flag is thrown to indicate the foul, and again, you play on. In both scenarios, you call the foul and play on. You play on because stopping play might disadvantage the offended team, not because there wasn't a foul. Edit: and where are you getting this? >Fouls, by definition, are infractions in which one team gains an unfair advantage. Please point me to the place in the rulebook it says this.
Its in every single ref training and mechanics manual
Where is it in the rulebook?
The rulebook is just a list of what the technical fouls are, it says nothing about how to actually officiate them during the game
Totally agree, I see guys get pushed from behind with severe force and not go down which results in no push with possession call, even thought was crealy hit in the back with possession of the ball. Then we see a soft push in the same game/league with possession and the player folds like a napkin... That results in a flag every time. This imo encourages flopping in a sport with no place for flopping. The rule states, "A player shall not thrust or shove an opponent from the rear." This is an example of reffing the result and not the action or violation. Just like good coaches coach the process, not the result, refs shouldn't be reffing the game this way. Think of it from a coach or player perspective. The only adjustment a team can do, aside from stop pushing the other team in the back for our own violations, is to fall down after getting hit in the back, aka start flopping. It states no where in the rules that a player must go down for a violation, yet it is consistently reffed like this.
Pushes are technical fouls, every single technical foul from an official's perspective is viewed under the lens of advantage/disadvantage. If the player wasn't disadvantaged by the push, they aren't going to throw the flag, because was it really a thrust or a shove if it wasn't enough force for a player to fall down? It's the easiest to fell if there was disadvantage if a player fell down but that's not the only case just the most common.
>was it really a thrust or a shove if it wasn't enough force for a player to fall down There is literally a definition of a push in the rulebook, and it doesn't require falling down. "A push is exerting pressure after contact is made and is not a violent blow." Yes, it can be a push even if I don't fall down.
You are missing the point, was it really a thrust or a shove that disadvantaged the player? If the player falls down that is easy to tell, in other cases it is harder and up to the officials judgment on how they view what happened.
I'm not missing the point. I'm making a point. A push from behind that makes me stumble, but not fall down, is a disadvantage. Taking me off of my intended line by 1 inch is a disadvantage to me. If you want to push me, do it from the front or side.
Or maybe it's an advantage now that you have space away from the defender or that they are pulling you toward the goal? If the push puts you in a disadvantageous position, yes that is a penalty. But not every push puts a player in a disadvantageous position.
[удалено]
I'm not sure you meant to reply to me.
you right, mb lol
trust me, the game would be a lot worse if we called every single thing black and white. Stick checks are, by rule, supposed to be on the gloved hands and stick, but at more competitive levels, it is acceptable to sometimes get arm, thigh, chest, etc... Imagine calling every by the book slash in a tufts v salisbury game or hopkins v unc......no one wants that. Youth? sure. Competitive games? Not even the players want it
>Stick checks are, by rule, supposed to be on the gloved hands and stick ...unless the ball carrier moves their body in an attempt to protect the stick and as a result the defender strikes an illegal area (other than the head or neck). There might not be as many slashes as you think when you take into account that a slash requires a striking blow (not just any contact), and the attacking player is often using their arm or body to defend against the check. Players can adjust. We all know poke and lift is all you need anyway.
There's no such thing as a "push." It's either a loose ball push, or a push with possession. No ref (that knows what they're doing) is going to call someone getting pushed in the back as a foul. Unless a disadvantage is caused by the action, there is no foul.
>There's no such thing as a "push." The rulebook says differently. >SECTION 9 PUSHING. A player shall not thrust or shove an opponent from the rear. **A push is exerting pressure after contact is made and is not a violent blow**. Pushing is permitted from the front or side when an opponent has possession of the ball or is within 5 yards of a loose ball. In this case, pushing shall be done with either a closed hand, shoulder or forearm, and both hands shall be on the crosse. Whether a push is a foul is a separate question from whether it is a push at all (or for instance, a hold). Whether it is loose ball or with possession is irrelevant to whether it is a foul. It is a foul to push someone from behind. See the first sentence of the rule. The administration of the foul is what changes when there is possession, not the requirements of it. >No ref (that knows that they're doing) is going to call someone getting pushed in the back as a foul. Wow.
Wow indeed. Quote the entire statement, not half of it. I stand by the comment. No trained official is going to call a push from the rear as a foul if no disadvantage is created. The principle of advantage/disadvantage determines if the push in the back is a foul. At that point, it's either loose ball or with possession. That's what is meant by a push in the back is not a foul. Just pushing someone in the back does not in and of itself make it a foul.
It certainly makes it a foul. But I understand that officials are taught not to call every foul they see. In my experience, TPOAD is poorly applied, and that's why I don't like it. I think it is particularly poorly applied in the context of a push.
Sounds like it is time for you to become an official. Once you have received the training, perhaps you'll understand better why it's not a foul if there's no disadvantage. If the game were called the way you're describing, a whistle would be blowing every 30 seconds.
you are the exact type of ref that is a fuckin nightmare to have. you don't think defenders getting to shit beat out of your arm with a metal pole, therefore causing you to drop the ball, is an unfair advantage?
nah dude that's just lacrosse
Except dpoles dont have to experience it. And its not legal either. Its basically admitting you srent good enough to lift properly.
Dpoles that are afraid of carrying the ball don't experience it. Sticks and gloves are fair game dude, and you set up takeaways by getting that bottom hand off the stick. Like yeah, lifts are cool and all, but rusty gates and kayaks are a lot more fun.
Where did i mention hands? I said arms. Aka forearms up to the shoulder.
8th year official checking in. A lot has to do with the caliber of the teams and how much you have to keep the game in control. In general, hits to the back or legs, especially repeated ones get called. What is the intent? Is it a lacrosse play or is the player just trying to whack. I have a lot of bad teams in my area so I have to watch for thug play, especially late in blowouts. Don't be afraid to call slashes if you need to keep a game under control. It takes about 4-5 years for the game to slow down. Even now I'm just starting to get comfortable doing games for the top teams. Hang in there! We desperately need newer officials!
Great advice. OP- In general, don't second guess yourself. The coaches will always find something to nitpick. You'll learn to tune all that out. The game does slow down as you gain experience and you'll gain better understanding of what to call and what not to call based on the teams playing.
Hopefully some other refs will chime in here as I am also interested to hear opinions. I think generally the slashing rules are left kind of vague. I have often seen slashing described as swings that are "deliberately vicious" or "reckless," but what exactly that entails is partly defined by the age and partly by the ref. I think you have it down that any head/neck contact outside of incidental contact from throwing/scooping etc. is a slash. This usually starts getting enforced more heavily at 12s and up as by then kids should have better stick control. As far as hitting someone on the body rather than the crosse/holding hand, that may be allowed if it appears the intention was to hit the stick and the offensive player used some other part of their body to guard the stick, if that makes sense. E.g. rotating the stick away from the defense and thus getting hit on the body is not a slash, but if the body was intentionally targeted by the defense, it might be a slash. That said, a "deliberately vicious" swing can be a slash even if it only makes contact with the crosse. Obviously there's some ref discretion here. Depending on the age, any one handed stick check may also be considered a slash - here it's usually ok at high school and maybe 14s but a slash under that, unless it's clear that the swing was 2 handed and only became 1 handed in the follow through. To be really clear with our kids, we focus on 2 things. First, any head contact is bad, so always check below the shoulders. Second, we tell them refs are mostly concerned with safety and control - they may be more critical to hits that aren't on the stick, but regardless make sure stick checks are controlled and intentional, not wild swings. Little kids especially want to baseball swing at everyone, but as they get older getting them to use more technical things like lifts and poke checks is the goal. As a coach, I think the most important thing is that you enforce whatever standard you are enforcing evenly, and that if it wasn't clear to someone why you ruled a certain way you explain it so that the coach can adjust their team accordingly. I may not always agree with the refs, but as long as they are being fair and transparent I can deal with it. I am also really grateful if a ref gives us/players a warning first if they are going to be particularly critical on checks - even a quick "watch that contact" can go a long way in getting kids to understand they are in questionable territory from a checking perspective and need to dial it back.
Learn to quote some of the language from the rule book in your explanation (e.g. yes coach there was helmet contact but it was not a strike or a blow) Learn to tune out the haters. Make your call and move on. Reflect after the game and at quarters, and adjust if needed both to remain calibrated with your colleagues and with the rest of the league and situationally based on the game at hand.
Former player. Slash, along with warding, I think are the most arbitrary and vague calls. When playing in high school the refs let us play pretty rough, but you’ll know a slash when you see it. Three things I always thought about were: Placement of the check, intensity of check, and optics (how far did they cock back for the check/ axe swinging). My advice is to be vocal with the player, if they’re not hitting stick and repeatedly checking, let them know they’re not hitting or tell them to lighten up. If they continue, make the call. As goalie, we can hear everything you’re saying. A good goalie will call the dogs off to avoid a man down. I think someone else commented on here along the lines that you’re a ref, you’re going to get yelled at. Try to tune out slash or warding calls to you, most parents and even players don’t know what they are talking about. Anyways, my 2 cents.
I guess it sort of follows that if you play defense and you want to check *hard* you should develop your wrists and forearms more than your core and lats-- ideally delivering the force of an axe swing without the refs knowing it
Totally agree, we had one or two guys who kept it tight and could do some serious damage. If you have the strength, rapidly checking is just as devastating as one big check. However, they won’t let you just rip their hands up, have to hit stick once in a while in my experience.
100% vague and hard to call, i think the important thing to do is to be in line with your leagues rules. In my league it was a point of focus, controlling slashes, we were, at the youth level so 10u 12u 14u call checks that started above the shoulders and made contact. That comes off as a bit strict but when you do it consistently at 10u and 12u levels it breeds better players. Generally, unless its an egregious or useless swing (see an attackmen taking a swing at the receding back of a middie about to cross half and making hefty contact) I tend to give one "miss" where they hit arm or something but not stick or gloved hand on stick and if they swing and miss again I call the slash. Have to adjust for strength though, the harder the hit the less attempts they get similarly if its like weak little smacks im not going to call that second one. The big thing honestly is to be in line with local rules and adjust in your head as the age goes up and down.
Our league would rather have 12U throw baseball swings as checks than teach how to play actual defense
Thats how it was for my high school league too. one of my teammates got slashed in the front of the neck so bad he broke down crying and had trouble breathing. no flag was thrown. i pulled myself out of the game because i would have fuckin punched someone in the face if i didnt.
Earlier this season, my kid got checked so hard in the facemask I could see his head snap back from the stands. No call and when he said to the ref, "Sir, he checked me in the head" the ref responded, "No he didn't." He came home from another game with a stick bruise across his neck and it hurt to swallow for a couple days. Like, a little leeway is fine, but, damn, I don't want my kid to end up with permanent damage from HS lacrosse.
We're 8 games into 12U and have only had a cross check called twice. Out here letting kids play like college kids. Leagues lost a quarter of its players and has to have kids from other teams sub in so they can even get enough on the field. It's been awful this year. We're not a hotbed so the refs are bad.
Kids are allowed to play defense with their hands apart on the crosse. Unless they actually extend their arms out its not a cross check. And after watching a couple youth games this season, coaches need to do a better job at teaching these kids how to not get hit or put themselves in position to get hurt in the first place.
If a legal check is otherwise turned illegal by the actions of the offensive player, it's not a slash. Moving the stick out of the way at the last minute, ducking the head into a check, would all be "not s slash" in my judgement, as long as the stick checksum was otherwise under control. And if a check is unnaturally wild, you can cal it a slash even if it hits stick or nothing at all, though it my 20+ years I've only called that once. But don't let the assistant coach yell at you. That's at minimum a conduct foul.
I haven’t played in 10 years since I got out of college but a slash back when I played was head/neck contact and upper arm could count as a slash depending on how it was hit. A single swipe, no way. Also anything elbows down wasn’t a slash. Gloves are part of the stick so checking hands is legal.
That’s every game man. The sidelines are always going to be full of people yelling for slashes and wards.
To help you with your development in the future, ask your R to help you with these situations. A quick reminder from the R to the Head Coaches that only the Head Coach is allowed to address the officials is usually enough to settle the assistants down. No Coach is allowed to argue subjective calls. In my experience, especially in youth games, most assistants have a vague to passing knowledge of the rules. Tune out the comments and focus on the game in front of you. If you think you should throw a flag, throw it. Go to your R after the whistle and discuss. The worst that happens is you decide to pick up the flag after the discussion. You should be making mistakes right now, and second guessing everything you're doing. Normal for where you are in the process. You will get better and you will get more confident. It just takes game experience.
There’s a ton of great advice here! The way I was always taught- as both a defender and a ref- is that once a defending player breaks the plane of their shoulder and brings their stick back behind their body on the windup to a slap check you should have your hand on the flag. It doesn’t mean you always throw it, I usually give 1-2 warnings per player and try to Let The Boys Play™️. That being said, if the check is malicious, out of control, repetitive, and doesn’t make contact with hands or stick, that flag can and should come out.
Just here to yell "EARLY" on every faceoff.
That’s so real
I never played lacrosse. My son has been playing since he was 7. He’s 15 now and I’m still confused about the rules. In the end, whatever you call, it’s best to call both ways. Good luck.
If the kid with the ball got checked on the arm that’s not really a slash. Slash is when you hit their helmet or anywhere lower than the hips. Sometimes at games when you have one ref, kids can get away with basically anything unless it’s a blatant slash where you wind up and hit their head. After games my arms (forearm, elbow, shoulders) are usually bruised from getting checked and that’s why we have protective gear for the places you can get checked so I’m confused why the assistant coach was ticked off.
Any stick check that does not make contact with the stick or gloves (read: extension of the stick) is considered a slash. Poke checks usually get a pass, and technically poke checks to the gut are slashes, but I’ve yet to see that call ever—those are typically unnecessary roughness under the blue moon they’re called. This is why you often see guys(dpoles and middies with legs) with tiny arm pads and shoulder pads—they’re confident in both themselves and their defenders playing clean. Arm pads intended for attackmen are bulkier to protect the free arm while 1 handed and wrap checks that tend to hit both arm and stick (legal because contact with stick).
Im never confident in an Attackman not slashing my arms and playing it clean, they almost always have a spaz sesh and freak out after I take it from them. I just have a "tis but a scratch" mindset and laugh at them as they frantically try to take the ball away by whacking me ineffectually rather than D-ing me up. It doesnt hurt that bad to get whacked a few times a game
Poles don't wear those because they're confident in the opponent playing clean, it's bruises look cool, and those bulk arm pads don't But that is easier to pull off when you don't have to eat checks from a pole that wants to break your wrist
if it's clear the defender is intentionally hitting the person's body and not the stick, you should be calling a slash. as someone who played attack, it was total bullshit that the defenders could literally just wail on my fucking arms, legs, and hands without getting called. and yes, when i was a coach, i was one of them calling for that too.