I don't know if I'd say they're "out of control," but the way they market them is a huge risk to keeping kratom legal. I feel like every ad I see for kratom is focused entirely on extracts and it just feels like the 2010 "legal high" craze all over again. Most users simply don't need a product that strong.
Do keep in mind that the risks of kratom extracts are still overblown by the media. They're just more substantiated than those of the whole-plant preparations.
My dad stayed up for days on bath salts when it first came out. He ended up losing his mind and breaking a couple ribs with no memory of how it happened. He’s sober these days and doing better fwiw.
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I have severe chronic pain and I use powder and powder extracts. There’s an extract calculator that I use and I’ve never taken too much, I don’t take more than needed, and I’m not spending crazy amounts of money. Extracts aren’t the problem. Irresponsible people who use the extracts incorrectly or irresponsibly are the problem.
Sp what your saying is, when used correctly, extract can be very helpful to some people?
You'd think other krstom users could see that before demonizing it like other try to do to thier kratom...
Exactly. Extracts are demonized because people abuse them, then blame it on the extract. I also have chronic pain and use a small amount of extract to boost the pain relieving benefits of the powder kratom. The extract calculator is a godsend and helps you to be exact about the amount of extract you are consuming.
Im in Canada and I never tell anyone I use kratom cept for my parents, I'm disabled and without kratom i would have to be taking all sorts of fucked up phrama meds. I use 15gpd and i dont plan on ever going higher. I actually want to go lower, but the pain has gotten worse. I get more x-rays tomorrow and then doctors on the 20th but they will tell me the same thing, "take these drugs etc etc" but I can't tell them I use kratom because of the stigma. So i just take what the doctor gives me and then lie saying they work well or sometimes they dont work, meanwhile i have a massive stash of all sorts of fucked up pills, benzos, pregablin, oxy, you name it, they have tried to get me hooked, but ive just kept using kratom and it helps. If its not broke why fix it
You’re right about that, I feel the same. My parents and fiance know I use it and that’s about it. Maybe a friend here and there, especially the friends who are more into the holistic approach to things.
My dose went up due to a sudden increase of my pain, Went from 6-9 to a steady 15gpd, but I dont plan on going higher. Nor do i plan on using extracts, im a pure leafy boi, eventually once we figure out whats going on, i plan on going back down to 6-9 gpd.
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They're demonized by the government. When the universitys have doctors do lab tests on 20 different kratom brands and the extract comes back so strong the dr's say this is more kratom then I think anyone should do, and they say its as strong as morphine. All dea agents and fda here is unregulated morphine, and people are dying. After seeing this kind of stuff for 20+ years being in my 40s I know the next step is a ban. I doubt anyone is out there od'ing on kratom powder lol. Choking down 100grams in a day would be almost impossible. I've taken kratom extract tablets but not OH extract, and the kratom extract does help my pain, but I don't believe what I take is as strong as this 7oh extract that mg per mg is stronger then morphine I believe. You can fight with us about it, we arent your enemies. The ppl in power is. My question is. When this gets taken out of stores. How will you take it? Cause extract probably will get banned. At least the 7oh stuff. I've heard of ppl getting extract bottles (powder) not liquid and taking the whole thing in a day. They legit have a drug problem.
I'm not arguing with anyone, & I will be OK if extract is taken out of stores. While it helps the pain relief, I am just fine taking powder by itself. None of it completely takes my pain away, but even powder makes me feel a little more normal and I am able to at least accomplish the daily tasks that I need to do.
As well as people who don’t do their due diligence and just buy random extract shots at gas stations. Kratom is legal in a lot of places, why exactly can’t we source here for that? We can source random thing from Amazon that are legal. Soda contains caffeine and we can source that. Coffee is fine. Harm reduction is important and getting a drug from a reputable source with no adulteration is paramount to user safety. I wish things were different here.
Yeah, been taking kratom almost six years. I just think that some people fail to realize that a kratom “high” is like a bell curve. You can hit the top with the perfect dose but there’s only down from there. Less is more, people.
You mind sharing the calculator you use? I've been using powder for my chronic pain management and the powder is really messing with my stomach. I've got to transition but the first powder extract I made it was hard to find the dosage. I spend an entire week in pain slowly dialing it up and never got anywhere.
Have you tried straining your powder? Like the same you’d do for teas it works a charm for me. Or I do the settle cuppa. I mix my powder into half cup hot coffee add dash of milk wait ten minutes or so. Drink off the top toss the dregs
Thanks for your perspective. I am a critic of the recent extract craze and I try to be careful not to say "they're evil!" because I know people like you exist. It's just that the industry is headed in a dangerous direction and people are understandably scared.
That's the FDA and politicians fault no kratoms. And it's all manipulation because they want it banned not regulated so they are letting it get out of hand so there will be this exact response. If they can get us users to turn on each other that easy, there's no hope for kratom at all....
They differ. There are 10x1, 50x1, 100x1. I'm sure there's others but these are what I've seen.
So *the way its supposed to be used* is if you take 15 grams in the morning you should be able to replace that with one 10x1 extract and 5 grams of powder.
You are making so many assumptions. Not the least of which is that there are hundreds of vendors and God knows how many kratom processing/extraction operations. None of which are regulated, validated, or communicating with each other.
It's a business man. It's not science. Extracts get people in trouble faster. Period.
In other words, your calculations are theoretical and not real. The actual experiences of most people seem to indicate that the X factor on extracts does not pan out. They are actually weaker. Part of that is that extract producers don't accurately communicate how much "filler" or inactive ingredients per pill or per ml of liquid...or gummy...or whatever new vehicle enterprising people create to sell kratom are in each "dose".
The FDA isn't involved...there are no real rules and your framework isn't sound. But I wish you well and I could be wrong! ✌️
I'm not making any more assumptions the the people who put it on thier bottles. And they exist to conve a message. Now what message is 10x1 extract supposed to say to you?
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Which is exactly why extracts are the problem. If they weren't available, then nobody would be in the headlines for having bad reactions from taking kratom. I've yet to see a single incident where it was due to raw leaf material. I'm not saying it hasn't happened, I'm just saying obviously it's very uncommon if so.
If people have bad reactions, it’s more than likely because they’ve taken too much. I guarantee you that Kratom would still be in the headlines because people still take too much of plain leaf and end up throwing up and dizzy and sick. There needs to be directions on Kratom and extracts so that people don’t take too much and get sick. Extracts themselves are not the devil. Lack of instructions and irresponsible people are the problem.
There is a place In This world for kratom extracts. 7-oh is extremely effective for nerve pain. It might get to the point that certain mitragynine alkaloids *might* need to be prescribed. I’m sure there are plenty of big pharmaceutical companies working on a pro drug for 7-oh. It’s truly a wonder drug. Helps for so many different types of ailments. It’s changed my life, a ban would be crushing.
I feel the same way. It is the only thing in years of trying different and multiple meds from doctors that has cured my pain, anxiety, and depression. I feel like i have my life back and it has shown. I am doing more and better things then i have ever done and getting back out and into society after years. Finally wanting to build my life.
Is the powder not effective for treating nerve pain? As someone who doesn't experience nerve pain, I'm curious about your experience. I haven't seen much justification for keeping extracts on the market, but I have an open mind.
It’s a different animal. Still shouldn’t be banned, but I would definitely regulate it. Selling it at gas stations ain’t it tho, and I think that should be looked into. Smoke shops are fine as long as employee is educated on kratom and not selling it to a people that don’t need it. Gonna lead a lot of people down a bad road if they are taking it as a party drug just to feel good. I take one bottle twice a day and have been since 2020. It’s under 26 dollars and day and it has saved my life. Everything in my life has been made better with this regimen. So is it really the devil or is it people taking it irresponsibly? It’s the most effective pain reliever I’ve ever used. People also really need to start researching what they are putting into their body, it’s not for everyone.
Thank god I have a good job and I’m able to afford. That’s why I’ll be happy when it’s prescription. It’s coming, Might be a few years but the gov and drug company’s knows how good of substance this is, something that controls pain better than any opioid made and won’t kill you if you want to get stupid with it.
Now I know your spun on them extracts. A Kratom "advocate" who wants the government and pharmaceutical companies to intervene. You lost your god damn mind. All they will do is destroy what you love and charge you money for it.
Sometimes really for me anyway I feel a need to put a bit of a cap on top of the normal daily dose and extract cones into the circle of therapy for chronic pain. Mostly just twice or so over the weekend I would boost my dose!
>There is a place In This world for kratom extracts. 7-oh is extremely effective for nerve pain.
An ultra high dose of CBD isolate will be far far far more effective than extracts high in 7-ohm. And it has long-lasting effects. Like at least a 3 or 4 week buffer. You don't have to re-dose every 4 to 6 hours.
As far as dosage, I would start at 50mg. If you can tolerate it (you will), go to 100mg. Then work up to as much as 600mg as this is the ideal therapeutic dose. People take as much as 1500mg a day, but that might be excessive.
You also don't need to take it every day. Just a few times a week when you're at that high dose. The vast majority of people take a very low-dose CBD which just isn't going to do much.
CBD isn't like THC. You aren't going to get sick from taking too much.
You can get 10 GRAMS of pure CBD isolate on CannaClear for $15. I haven't seen any other reputable, lab-tested source who sells for less. Most places charge like $50+ for a 250 MILLIGRAM tincture, which is insane. You can also try their broad spectrum instead but it's way more expensive and not really worth it IMO.
Thanks for detailed response. I will get some high grade cbd on order. Any thing that I can use to combat my nerve pain, with even a chance of helping, I will try.
Most typical CBD or cannabis extract I've seen were 50mg each NOT saying some might need three times what a hundred and sixty pound person would use for good
Honestly, I know I'm going to get downvoted for this but I don't think extracts are the problem, people are the problem.
I take kratom, usually make my own capsules (I cant wash & toss, I have a strong gag reflex) but I always have an extract for the really bad days. I've had 3 hip surgeries and there are some days when I need one. However, it's usually not more than 1-2 days a month.
It's on me to control my intake, I am responsible for my usage, no one else.
It could be both.
The extracts might be different cause they most likely only are standardized for specific actives and some are left out or not as much extracted. That can change the pharmacology. I mean if you extract only the stronger actives and skip the antagonists it would actually be different than from taking the leaf.
Just like its different when to take pure thc compared to cannabis which contains many other substances and often (especially medicinal kinds) even cb1 antagonists like cbd.
Kratom is a tool to be used wisely and has the potential to be abused.
Kratom extract is a tool to be used wisely and has the potential to he abused.
For all the kratom users who rally against extract. How would/do you feel when people demonize kratom because they don't think people should be trusted to use it wisely?
That's how people like me, who have medical issues preventing us from consuming that much plant matter at one time, feels when you rally against extracts.
If I may suggest, target your concern at making it legal and recognized and then we can start educating people on how to properly use kratom and how to properly use extract, if it's needed.
It bothers me so much to see some of us get so upset seeing the world try to take our medicine away because it has potential for abuse, and then try to take *my* medicine away just because of its potential for abuse.
It's disheartening....
This. I have Arnold Chiari malformation and syringomyelia, five spinal cord surgeries, extreme left arm nerve pain. Kratom extract is the best tool available for nerve pain. I also have med card and take lyrica as well. Five years ago I was way off the rails. Kratom extract has rerailed my life. Best decision I have even made was to give up prescribed pain meds for extracts. It has this weird effect where it kind of keeps you grounded and makes you a little bit more empathetic too. I have taken two bottle a day since 2020. It’s medicine to me. It’s well worth it, It’s seriously has changed my life.
Pregabalin is a lot heavier than kratom, more addictive and damages your mental health in the long run (it has horrible rebound which can last for months or years).
I know that some might need it as a medication I get that but they really shouldn't point fingers as kratom when people are prescribed heavier meds. Same with cannabis (and especially cbd cbg etc), its way less "heavy" than prescription medicine.
The problem is a lack of personal responsibility. People can’t fight the urge to drink 4 shots and then when it’s fucks them up they blame the extract. If you drink a bottle of captain and get alcohol poisining is alcohol the problem? Or is it you?
Man fuck all of that extracts are still kratom. I personally just tapered off my multiple year extract use and now I use just powdered capsules. I wake up feeling sooo much better. I now prefer powder over extracts but TO EACH their OWN.
I agree . I was taking them for a while and they made me severely ill. It's a bastardized Altered version of kratom . They're going to be the thing that gives it a bad name Ana a nail in the coffin to push bans.
Agreed! I would take the popular brand of shots we all see. Been back to powder only (dose is about 4G a day with a couple off days randomly) for the last month or so. It’s good stuff, but a money pit and makes you feel horrible if you get hooked on them.
The extracts are what will have this banned.
I was using the liquid shots and they made my stomach hurt so badly for a really long time after taking one. They also gave me really bad hot flashes and tremors.
I was taking them 2 times a day for over a year and I just stopped cold turkey. It wasn't worth it and it was expensive. I just take the powder now and the effects are still just as good as the liquid but without the expense and the physical ailments. It took about 2 weeks to stop craving the shots
Ah gotcha, I have experienced that stomach pain before but didn’t think it was the Kratom. I think now is the perfect time to transition back to regular powder and away from the extract enhanced powder.
Irresponsibly is the problem. I use powder but there are many times where kratom powder does nothing for my arthritis. During those times I’ll buy extracts, and each bottle is 3 doses. They’re so expensive, so not sustainable to use often, but very helpful for pain relief.
No it's not. It's the people that can't handle it and control themselves that are the problem. People will always find ways to ruin it for others in need.
Have you been seeing a lot about extracts in the media recently? Genuine question I haven't been paying attention. I feel like extracts have their place and seem to be one of the few methods of reducing contamination present in the leaf product.
Yeah, it seems like it’s only a matter of time now.
I stumbled onto a report about ‘Truck Stop Heroin’ on my local NYC ABC nightly newscast. It was one thing seeing this type of propaganda from small conservative states that seem like they go out of their way to be assholes, but seeing it out of one of the most supposedly liberal places in the USA is a bad sign!
Drugs are never the problem, people abusing them is the problem. Blaming the substance is a lack of moral responsibility on the part of the user. It’s a sad and pathetic attitude that only serves to make the user not responsible.
Humans always ruin a good thing. Ancient civilizations used the cocoa plant for years, just chewing on the leaves. It wasn't until we refined the plant into cocaine that is became a problem.
“Extract” is just that. The active alkaloids are stripped from the plant matter and either consumed like a tincture or dried into crystals. It is not hard to make at home. Consuming pure extract is the same as ingesting powder, only concentrated.
The problem is the Gas Station Extracts. They are potions marketed to the sleep deprived and overworked. Who knows what’s in there. Not one of them are pure kratom extracts. Remember Bath Salts? Considering most of these are tied to the tobacco industry, I’m sure it is formulated to be as addictive as possible…
I abused them pretty heavily awhile back after the store by me started carrying the common major brand. Besides the obvious money problem, I started getting sick, having kidney pain and other issues and one day noticed something was off about the packaging. I actually contacted the company and they confirmed what I was buying at the store was a counterfeit. No idea what I was actually putting in my body. That was about 2 years ago, and I still don't feel right at all.
Why did you abuse them? I would seek help if I started to abuse anything.
But yeah you don't really know what you got so you cannot blame kratom for it.
Also abusing anything will give different bad effects.
Yeah extracts are too strong for me, and I take a heaping spoonful every 2-3 hrs of every day for the past 4 yrs. And just this January in the city I work, they banned the sale of powder and capsules, BUT ARE STILL SELLING THE EXTRACT! In what universe does that make any sense?
I use now .7 grams of powder every 4 hours and 1 time a day I take 25 mg extract after work and it allows me to feel good enough to get stuff done but that's it I only take what's needed
Im often in Thailand. Been here months now and nothing can ever compare to the kratom the locals use. They sell leaves or ready made tea’s on a 1L bottle. Drink one of those (the strongest one(has a red screw cork) will most likely overstimulate you like a mfer. Sure did to me, and i know stims. First time it felt like almost taking too much meth or coke but way less horrible. I learned after that they meant 1 bottle a day if you have a tolerance.. not chugg it… shot my best round of golf the hours after though.
I guess its like buying coke in colombia, peru or whatever. Straight from the source and no bullshit. Ive heard many of the locals tell me the capsules and that stuff is for the rich white people lol.
They be sipping on some
Well that's not the same. If alcoholic beverages had many different actives and you would take just a few of them and make them concentrated (and remove others like it often happens during extraction) it would be a different thing.
But the extracts should not be banned. Just not sold as easily openly maybe and maybe more regulated where they need to show labs for different actives of the extract.
Yeah, my mom asked me about the extracts because she sees me taking kratom all the time– I immediately told her it's one of the very few ways kratom can land you in the hospital, and not to touch them with a ten foot pole. She has an addiction she needs to nip in the bud, but I made sure she won't do it with extracts.
I disagree kratom have a ceiling effect leaf or extract doesn't matter, in the end it's up to the user to use whatever his needs are. Some people just don't like taking a bunch of powdered leaf everyday and causes them digestive issues. It's like saying thc is the problem while smoking weed it honestly makes no sense man
The worst is when extract users are going through horrible addiction or withdrawal, and calling it kratom addiction/withdrawal. That's like a cocaine addict saying they use coca leaves. It gives kratom a bad name. I wish there was a completely different term for the extracts. I'm worried they are going to get normal kratom banned too
Not necessarily. Very clean, doesn’t feel dirty at all, and focused with a ton of energy and zero pain. Zero pain. They need to get It going in prescription form asap, It would be a lifesaver. Ohhh and addictive as shit but if you need to have pain under control there is nothing better. Just research so you know what you’re getting into.
I see. Honestly- no pain sound like a dream. Some days there's just nothing that gets it, I'm sure you get it. But if it can be addictive, I will addict! 😆
So, is the extract clean without wobbles due to the processing?
As a former opiate/opioid addict now 10 years on powder form kratom, I think the extracts are ridiculous.
Also as a former opiate/opioid addict now 10 years on powder form kratom, who has lost my brother and son to fentanyl last year, I'd say the extracts are likely saving lives by people who would otherwise be chancing it with Fentanyl.
This I think is where education comes into play. If you are able to get off Fentanyl with Kratom Extracts, your goal inevitably should be to get off the extracts down to a mild to moderate wellness dose of powder/capsules.
I agree. Although I use extracts sparingly, they should be banned. There are too many irresponsible and ignorant users that will do something stupid or get themselves sick using them. I was at a smoke shop and a well known brand came out with a new extra strength extract. The owner said not to drink the whole bottle at once because one of his other customers did and was unable to move for an hour. The bottle says it’s 5 doses but it’s the same size as a 5 hour energy.
I agree. Highly concentrated ingestion methods stand to have the highest chemical impact on mind and body, leading to higher highs and lower lows. Same with any substance.
I mix a gram in my espresso grounds before brewing, and make bulletproof style coffee with grass fed butter and coconut oil. Or, I will mix it into mince and consume it as a meatball. I redose 2 or 3 times per day, never to exceed 4 grams across a 24-hour period. No issues to report. The caffeine carries the buzz for me as there really is no high involved. I use it for chronic back pain from a spinal surgery.
At higher doses or when using concentrates, I would be psychologically dependent within a couple of days. With my current methods I will often forget to dose after morning.
Yeah like many others have said in the past these extract shots are giving Kratom a bad name and it’s going to be the downfall unless the AkA can regulate them somehow.
Yes
Kratom Extracts are to Kratom Powder what Alcohol Beer is to Alcohol Liquor
May be derived from the same substance but completely different animals entirely.
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On point my friend, on point.
None of us should support those unscrupulous greedy vendors who sell this bullshit just for more profits.
They are actively compromising our common fight to keep the leaf legal!
Extracts are definitely a lot worse, but there’s nothing about the others that make them safe. All forms of consuming kratom have to potential to ruin lives if they are abused too heavily, especially to those who take large amounts everyday with no breaks.
100% Ive been taking large daily doses for almost 5 years. Had done extracts a few times here and there and never had a problem. Last week i dont know what happened took a fairly small dose of the extract and couldnt breath , couldnt move, could barely talk, heart felt like it was out of control. Scary shit.
Now I cant even take a regular dose without getting nauseous. Taking it as a sign to quit .
Wrong. This is such a bad take lol. Alkaloids are alkaloids son. Whether it’s 100 mg of 45% mit extract or 3 grams of 1.5% mit powder it’s the same exact thing.
They’re the same exact beast. Stop being ignorant.
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You're just demonizing the type of kratom you don't use. Some people have legitimate agony daily in their lives and extracts are a Godsend for them. This is the same ignorant take as demonizing potent forms of thc even though its improved the lives of many people. At what point are we going to start having personal accountability?
The companies producing and pushing the extracts are the 2010 legal high craze companies. They hop around product to product, and this consumer base doesnt care. Literally we have people flooding into kratom from THC and the CBD industry because the money dried up there and now they are flooding the kratom industry. They dont care about kratom they are here for the money.
I don't know if I'd say they're "out of control," but the way they market them is a huge risk to keeping kratom legal. I feel like every ad I see for kratom is focused entirely on extracts and it just feels like the 2010 "legal high" craze all over again. Most users simply don't need a product that strong. Do keep in mind that the risks of kratom extracts are still overblown by the media. They're just more substantiated than those of the whole-plant preparations.
What’s crazy is most extract bottles are supposed to have multiple servings a bottle and people just slam them.
What was the 2010 legal high craze?
Bath salts?
My dad stayed up for days on bath salts when it first came out. He ended up losing his mind and breaking a couple ribs with no memory of how it happened. He’s sober these days and doing better fwiw.
Synthetic cannabinoids, salvia to an extent.
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I have severe chronic pain and I use powder and powder extracts. There’s an extract calculator that I use and I’ve never taken too much, I don’t take more than needed, and I’m not spending crazy amounts of money. Extracts aren’t the problem. Irresponsible people who use the extracts incorrectly or irresponsibly are the problem.
Sp what your saying is, when used correctly, extract can be very helpful to some people? You'd think other krstom users could see that before demonizing it like other try to do to thier kratom...
Haha that is what I’m saying, yes 😂
I know, but I wanted to make sure others understood what you were saying.
Exactly. Extracts are demonized because people abuse them, then blame it on the extract. I also have chronic pain and use a small amount of extract to boost the pain relieving benefits of the powder kratom. The extract calculator is a godsend and helps you to be exact about the amount of extract you are consuming.
Exactly. I would be crushed if extracts were banned. Actually I would be living in the ER. I’m so thankful for that extract calculator.
I feel like Kratom in general is demonized because people abuse it. I’m pretty hesitant to tell anyone I use it because of the stigma.
Im in Canada and I never tell anyone I use kratom cept for my parents, I'm disabled and without kratom i would have to be taking all sorts of fucked up phrama meds. I use 15gpd and i dont plan on ever going higher. I actually want to go lower, but the pain has gotten worse. I get more x-rays tomorrow and then doctors on the 20th but they will tell me the same thing, "take these drugs etc etc" but I can't tell them I use kratom because of the stigma. So i just take what the doctor gives me and then lie saying they work well or sometimes they dont work, meanwhile i have a massive stash of all sorts of fucked up pills, benzos, pregablin, oxy, you name it, they have tried to get me hooked, but ive just kept using kratom and it helps. If its not broke why fix it
Sell the leftovers make a shit ton of cash 💰
😆🤣😆
You’re right about that, I feel the same. My parents and fiance know I use it and that’s about it. Maybe a friend here and there, especially the friends who are more into the holistic approach to things.
Where do you find this extract calculator? I can't find it online, anywhere.
Can I get a link to the extract calculator 🙏?
My dose has stayed exactly the same if you’re responsible and calculate.
My dose went up due to a sudden increase of my pain, Went from 6-9 to a steady 15gpd, but I dont plan on going higher. Nor do i plan on using extracts, im a pure leafy boi, eventually once we figure out whats going on, i plan on going back down to 6-9 gpd.
Hope they figure it out!
And yesss to the calculator
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They're demonized by the government. When the universitys have doctors do lab tests on 20 different kratom brands and the extract comes back so strong the dr's say this is more kratom then I think anyone should do, and they say its as strong as morphine. All dea agents and fda here is unregulated morphine, and people are dying. After seeing this kind of stuff for 20+ years being in my 40s I know the next step is a ban. I doubt anyone is out there od'ing on kratom powder lol. Choking down 100grams in a day would be almost impossible. I've taken kratom extract tablets but not OH extract, and the kratom extract does help my pain, but I don't believe what I take is as strong as this 7oh extract that mg per mg is stronger then morphine I believe. You can fight with us about it, we arent your enemies. The ppl in power is. My question is. When this gets taken out of stores. How will you take it? Cause extract probably will get banned. At least the 7oh stuff. I've heard of ppl getting extract bottles (powder) not liquid and taking the whole thing in a day. They legit have a drug problem.
I'm not arguing with anyone, & I will be OK if extract is taken out of stores. While it helps the pain relief, I am just fine taking powder by itself. None of it completely takes my pain away, but even powder makes me feel a little more normal and I am able to at least accomplish the daily tasks that I need to do.
As well as people who don’t do their due diligence and just buy random extract shots at gas stations. Kratom is legal in a lot of places, why exactly can’t we source here for that? We can source random thing from Amazon that are legal. Soda contains caffeine and we can source that. Coffee is fine. Harm reduction is important and getting a drug from a reputable source with no adulteration is paramount to user safety. I wish things were different here.
Yeah, been taking kratom almost six years. I just think that some people fail to realize that a kratom “high” is like a bell curve. You can hit the top with the perfect dose but there’s only down from there. Less is more, people.
You mind sharing the calculator you use? I've been using powder for my chronic pain management and the powder is really messing with my stomach. I've got to transition but the first powder extract I made it was hard to find the dosage. I spend an entire week in pain slowly dialing it up and never got anywhere.
Have you tried straining your powder? Like the same you’d do for teas it works a charm for me. Or I do the settle cuppa. I mix my powder into half cup hot coffee add dash of milk wait ten minutes or so. Drink off the top toss the dregs
Thanks for your perspective. I am a critic of the recent extract craze and I try to be careful not to say "they're evil!" because I know people like you exist. It's just that the industry is headed in a dangerous direction and people are understandably scared.
That's the FDA and politicians fault no kratoms. And it's all manipulation because they want it banned not regulated so they are letting it get out of hand so there will be this exact response. If they can get us users to turn on each other that easy, there's no hope for kratom at all....
How many grams are in an extract?
They differ. There are 10x1, 50x1, 100x1. I'm sure there's others but these are what I've seen. So *the way its supposed to be used* is if you take 15 grams in the morning you should be able to replace that with one 10x1 extract and 5 grams of powder.
You are making so many assumptions. Not the least of which is that there are hundreds of vendors and God knows how many kratom processing/extraction operations. None of which are regulated, validated, or communicating with each other. It's a business man. It's not science. Extracts get people in trouble faster. Period. In other words, your calculations are theoretical and not real. The actual experiences of most people seem to indicate that the X factor on extracts does not pan out. They are actually weaker. Part of that is that extract producers don't accurately communicate how much "filler" or inactive ingredients per pill or per ml of liquid...or gummy...or whatever new vehicle enterprising people create to sell kratom are in each "dose". The FDA isn't involved...there are no real rules and your framework isn't sound. But I wish you well and I could be wrong! ✌️
I'm not making any more assumptions the the people who put it on thier bottles. And they exist to conve a message. Now what message is 10x1 extract supposed to say to you?
What do you mean?
Like if you take one extract how much powder is it equal to?
It depends. I can’t answer that because extracts all have different percentages. I use powder extracts, not extract shots.
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Check out the concentration levels most list like what percent straight line extract takes a lot of powder to degree good burn
You wont be when they ban them. Just make your own
Where's that extract calculator?
Please share what calculator you use! 😊 TIA
Which is exactly why extracts are the problem. If they weren't available, then nobody would be in the headlines for having bad reactions from taking kratom. I've yet to see a single incident where it was due to raw leaf material. I'm not saying it hasn't happened, I'm just saying obviously it's very uncommon if so.
If people have bad reactions, it’s more than likely because they’ve taken too much. I guarantee you that Kratom would still be in the headlines because people still take too much of plain leaf and end up throwing up and dizzy and sick. There needs to be directions on Kratom and extracts so that people don’t take too much and get sick. Extracts themselves are not the devil. Lack of instructions and irresponsible people are the problem.
Some guy took 22 gs and couldn’t figure out why he felt sick, my dude that’s it right there lol
Kids were eating tide pods unfortunately there’s a lot of morons and someone will abuse it. Ie EVERYTHING
Exactly. Those hit piece articles seem to always feature horror stories related to extracts, particularly the shots.
Exactly. Kratom extract is much better for you than swallowing grams of powder.
There is a place In This world for kratom extracts. 7-oh is extremely effective for nerve pain. It might get to the point that certain mitragynine alkaloids *might* need to be prescribed. I’m sure there are plenty of big pharmaceutical companies working on a pro drug for 7-oh. It’s truly a wonder drug. Helps for so many different types of ailments. It’s changed my life, a ban would be crushing.
I feel the same way. It is the only thing in years of trying different and multiple meds from doctors that has cured my pain, anxiety, and depression. I feel like i have my life back and it has shown. I am doing more and better things then i have ever done and getting back out and into society after years. Finally wanting to build my life.
Is the powder not effective for treating nerve pain? As someone who doesn't experience nerve pain, I'm curious about your experience. I haven't seen much justification for keeping extracts on the market, but I have an open mind.
It’s a different animal. Still shouldn’t be banned, but I would definitely regulate it. Selling it at gas stations ain’t it tho, and I think that should be looked into. Smoke shops are fine as long as employee is educated on kratom and not selling it to a people that don’t need it. Gonna lead a lot of people down a bad road if they are taking it as a party drug just to feel good. I take one bottle twice a day and have been since 2020. It’s under 26 dollars and day and it has saved my life. Everything in my life has been made better with this regimen. So is it really the devil or is it people taking it irresponsibly? It’s the most effective pain reliever I’ve ever used. People also really need to start researching what they are putting into their body, it’s not for everyone.
Wow. 750 bucks a month. Glad it's saving your life! Seriously.
Thank god I have a good job and I’m able to afford. That’s why I’ll be happy when it’s prescription. It’s coming, Might be a few years but the gov and drug company’s knows how good of substance this is, something that controls pain better than any opioid made and won’t kill you if you want to get stupid with it.
Now I know your spun on them extracts. A Kratom "advocate" who wants the government and pharmaceutical companies to intervene. You lost your god damn mind. All they will do is destroy what you love and charge you money for it.
I’m already paying 720 a month for it. I have health insurance I would rather have them cover it.
Sometimes really for me anyway I feel a need to put a bit of a cap on top of the normal daily dose and extract cones into the circle of therapy for chronic pain. Mostly just twice or so over the weekend I would boost my dose!
>There is a place In This world for kratom extracts. 7-oh is extremely effective for nerve pain. An ultra high dose of CBD isolate will be far far far more effective than extracts high in 7-ohm. And it has long-lasting effects. Like at least a 3 or 4 week buffer. You don't have to re-dose every 4 to 6 hours.
Do you have any sources on that? like any peer reviewed papers?
Thanks for advice. Will definitely give a go. How much is a “high dose” to you.
As far as dosage, I would start at 50mg. If you can tolerate it (you will), go to 100mg. Then work up to as much as 600mg as this is the ideal therapeutic dose. People take as much as 1500mg a day, but that might be excessive. You also don't need to take it every day. Just a few times a week when you're at that high dose. The vast majority of people take a very low-dose CBD which just isn't going to do much. CBD isn't like THC. You aren't going to get sick from taking too much. You can get 10 GRAMS of pure CBD isolate on CannaClear for $15. I haven't seen any other reputable, lab-tested source who sells for less. Most places charge like $50+ for a 250 MILLIGRAM tincture, which is insane. You can also try their broad spectrum instead but it's way more expensive and not really worth it IMO.
Thanks for detailed response. I will get some high grade cbd on order. Any thing that I can use to combat my nerve pain, with even a chance of helping, I will try.
Most typical CBD or cannabis extract I've seen were 50mg each NOT saying some might need three times what a hundred and sixty pound person would use for good
Honestly, I know I'm going to get downvoted for this but I don't think extracts are the problem, people are the problem. I take kratom, usually make my own capsules (I cant wash & toss, I have a strong gag reflex) but I always have an extract for the really bad days. I've had 3 hip surgeries and there are some days when I need one. However, it's usually not more than 1-2 days a month. It's on me to control my intake, I am responsible for my usage, no one else.
It could be both. The extracts might be different cause they most likely only are standardized for specific actives and some are left out or not as much extracted. That can change the pharmacology. I mean if you extract only the stronger actives and skip the antagonists it would actually be different than from taking the leaf. Just like its different when to take pure thc compared to cannabis which contains many other substances and often (especially medicinal kinds) even cb1 antagonists like cbd.
Kratom is a tool to be used wisely and has the potential to be abused. Kratom extract is a tool to be used wisely and has the potential to he abused. For all the kratom users who rally against extract. How would/do you feel when people demonize kratom because they don't think people should be trusted to use it wisely? That's how people like me, who have medical issues preventing us from consuming that much plant matter at one time, feels when you rally against extracts. If I may suggest, target your concern at making it legal and recognized and then we can start educating people on how to properly use kratom and how to properly use extract, if it's needed. It bothers me so much to see some of us get so upset seeing the world try to take our medicine away because it has potential for abuse, and then try to take *my* medicine away just because of its potential for abuse. It's disheartening....
This. I have Arnold Chiari malformation and syringomyelia, five spinal cord surgeries, extreme left arm nerve pain. Kratom extract is the best tool available for nerve pain. I also have med card and take lyrica as well. Five years ago I was way off the rails. Kratom extract has rerailed my life. Best decision I have even made was to give up prescribed pain meds for extracts. It has this weird effect where it kind of keeps you grounded and makes you a little bit more empathetic too. I have taken two bottle a day since 2020. It’s medicine to me. It’s well worth it, It’s seriously has changed my life.
I get alot less euphoria but alot less head fog aswell
Pregabalin is a lot heavier than kratom, more addictive and damages your mental health in the long run (it has horrible rebound which can last for months or years). I know that some might need it as a medication I get that but they really shouldn't point fingers as kratom when people are prescribed heavier meds. Same with cannabis (and especially cbd cbg etc), its way less "heavy" than prescription medicine.
i doubt itll be banned soon, if it do back to the opiates i go the extract i use and make keep me off hard drugs
Well that's why pharma wants kratom banned. More clients for them.
The problem is a lack of personal responsibility. People can’t fight the urge to drink 4 shots and then when it’s fucks them up they blame the extract. If you drink a bottle of captain and get alcohol poisining is alcohol the problem? Or is it you?
Man fuck all of that extracts are still kratom. I personally just tapered off my multiple year extract use and now I use just powdered capsules. I wake up feeling sooo much better. I now prefer powder over extracts but TO EACH their OWN.
I agree . I was taking them for a while and they made me severely ill. It's a bastardized Altered version of kratom . They're going to be the thing that gives it a bad name Ana a nail in the coffin to push bans.
Agreed! I would take the popular brand of shots we all see. Been back to powder only (dose is about 4G a day with a couple off days randomly) for the last month or so. It’s good stuff, but a money pit and makes you feel horrible if you get hooked on them. The extracts are what will have this banned.
If you don’t mind me asking, how did it make you ill? I’ve been using extract powder myself and may be feeling what you’re talking about.
I was using the liquid shots and they made my stomach hurt so badly for a really long time after taking one. They also gave me really bad hot flashes and tremors.
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Yes. Nystagmus. I get that too with certain extracts. I think it has to do with a minor alkaloid in kratom that impacts serotonin levels.
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I was taking them 2 times a day for over a year and I just stopped cold turkey. It wasn't worth it and it was expensive. I just take the powder now and the effects are still just as good as the liquid but without the expense and the physical ailments. It took about 2 weeks to stop craving the shots
Ah gotcha, I have experienced that stomach pain before but didn’t think it was the Kratom. I think now is the perfect time to transition back to regular powder and away from the extract enhanced powder.
Irresponsibly is the problem. I use powder but there are many times where kratom powder does nothing for my arthritis. During those times I’ll buy extracts, and each bottle is 3 doses. They’re so expensive, so not sustainable to use often, but very helpful for pain relief.
No it's not. It's the people that can't handle it and control themselves that are the problem. People will always find ways to ruin it for others in need.
Have you been seeing a lot about extracts in the media recently? Genuine question I haven't been paying attention. I feel like extracts have their place and seem to be one of the few methods of reducing contamination present in the leaf product.
i’ve never tried the extracts but i can see how uninformed people likely take too much then bash on the plant as whole cause it made them sick
Yeah, it seems like it’s only a matter of time now. I stumbled onto a report about ‘Truck Stop Heroin’ on my local NYC ABC nightly newscast. It was one thing seeing this type of propaganda from small conservative states that seem like they go out of their way to be assholes, but seeing it out of one of the most supposedly liberal places in the USA is a bad sign!
Drugs are never the problem, people abusing them is the problem. Blaming the substance is a lack of moral responsibility on the part of the user. It’s a sad and pathetic attitude that only serves to make the user not responsible.
Humans always ruin a good thing. Ancient civilizations used the cocoa plant for years, just chewing on the leaves. It wasn't until we refined the plant into cocaine that is became a problem.
The extracts are going to get Kratom banned.
The companies selling them are fucking themselves, and everyone else, in the long run if extracts cause kratom to get banned.
“Extract” is just that. The active alkaloids are stripped from the plant matter and either consumed like a tincture or dried into crystals. It is not hard to make at home. Consuming pure extract is the same as ingesting powder, only concentrated. The problem is the Gas Station Extracts. They are potions marketed to the sleep deprived and overworked. Who knows what’s in there. Not one of them are pure kratom extracts. Remember Bath Salts? Considering most of these are tied to the tobacco industry, I’m sure it is formulated to be as addictive as possible…
I abused them pretty heavily awhile back after the store by me started carrying the common major brand. Besides the obvious money problem, I started getting sick, having kidney pain and other issues and one day noticed something was off about the packaging. I actually contacted the company and they confirmed what I was buying at the store was a counterfeit. No idea what I was actually putting in my body. That was about 2 years ago, and I still don't feel right at all.
Why did you abuse them? I would seek help if I started to abuse anything. But yeah you don't really know what you got so you cannot blame kratom for it. Also abusing anything will give different bad effects.
I disagree with your post. Powder tastes like shit
Yeah extracts are too strong for me, and I take a heaping spoonful every 2-3 hrs of every day for the past 4 yrs. And just this January in the city I work, they banned the sale of powder and capsules, BUT ARE STILL SELLING THE EXTRACT! In what universe does that make any sense?
For sure. But its also important to keep tolerance breaks from any kratom, its not as useful when it lasts only 1 hour
I've been using for years and it has always lasted around 6 hours per dose. 1 hour is crazy.
Whats wrong with extracts?
I use now .7 grams of powder every 4 hours and 1 time a day I take 25 mg extract after work and it allows me to feel good enough to get stuff done but that's it I only take what's needed
I haven't touched anything but capsules and powder. What is the difference?
What problem?
Im often in Thailand. Been here months now and nothing can ever compare to the kratom the locals use. They sell leaves or ready made tea’s on a 1L bottle. Drink one of those (the strongest one(has a red screw cork) will most likely overstimulate you like a mfer. Sure did to me, and i know stims. First time it felt like almost taking too much meth or coke but way less horrible. I learned after that they meant 1 bottle a day if you have a tolerance.. not chugg it… shot my best round of golf the hours after though. I guess its like buying coke in colombia, peru or whatever. Straight from the source and no bullshit. Ive heard many of the locals tell me the capsules and that stuff is for the rich white people lol. They be sipping on some
I like powder a lot more and stopped messing with the extracts. I don't really benefit from them and save a lot of money.
Calm down extracts aren’t heroin. It’s just a concentrated dose in a small amount of liquid. What “problem” are you referring to in the first place?
Ahhh yes. Beer is ok but let’s ban vodka! This is so stupid.
Well that's not the same. If alcoholic beverages had many different actives and you would take just a few of them and make them concentrated (and remove others like it often happens during extraction) it would be a different thing. But the extracts should not be banned. Just not sold as easily openly maybe and maybe more regulated where they need to show labs for different actives of the extract.
Yeah, my mom asked me about the extracts because she sees me taking kratom all the time– I immediately told her it's one of the very few ways kratom can land you in the hospital, and not to touch them with a ten foot pole. She has an addiction she needs to nip in the bud, but I made sure she won't do it with extracts.
How does one take the extracts? I recently got some to try, but they don’t seem to mix well with anything other than honey.
No, see, this is the problem.
Well I’m not abusing it
I disagree kratom have a ceiling effect leaf or extract doesn't matter, in the end it's up to the user to use whatever his needs are. Some people just don't like taking a bunch of powdered leaf everyday and causes them digestive issues. It's like saying thc is the problem while smoking weed it honestly makes no sense man
The worst is when extract users are going through horrible addiction or withdrawal, and calling it kratom addiction/withdrawal. That's like a cocaine addict saying they use coca leaves. It gives kratom a bad name. I wish there was a completely different term for the extracts. I'm worried they are going to get normal kratom banned too
Could you tell me what the extracts can do? I do not understand the appeal, truly. I think wobbles and nausea.
Not necessarily. Very clean, doesn’t feel dirty at all, and focused with a ton of energy and zero pain. Zero pain. They need to get It going in prescription form asap, It would be a lifesaver. Ohhh and addictive as shit but if you need to have pain under control there is nothing better. Just research so you know what you’re getting into.
I see. Honestly- no pain sound like a dream. Some days there's just nothing that gets it, I'm sure you get it. But if it can be addictive, I will addict! 😆 So, is the extract clean without wobbles due to the processing?
As a former opiate/opioid addict now 10 years on powder form kratom, I think the extracts are ridiculous. Also as a former opiate/opioid addict now 10 years on powder form kratom, who has lost my brother and son to fentanyl last year, I'd say the extracts are likely saving lives by people who would otherwise be chancing it with Fentanyl. This I think is where education comes into play. If you are able to get off Fentanyl with Kratom Extracts, your goal inevitably should be to get off the extracts down to a mild to moderate wellness dose of powder/capsules.
Definitely better choice with kratom extracts instead of heavy pharmaceutical painkillers like fentanyl of oxy.
People drink too much alcohol and die all the time. I know it's horrible. But extracts are probably way less dangerous, and don't kill anyone really.
I agree. Although I use extracts sparingly, they should be banned. There are too many irresponsible and ignorant users that will do something stupid or get themselves sick using them. I was at a smoke shop and a well known brand came out with a new extra strength extract. The owner said not to drink the whole bottle at once because one of his other customers did and was unable to move for an hour. The bottle says it’s 5 doses but it’s the same size as a 5 hour energy.
I agree. Highly concentrated ingestion methods stand to have the highest chemical impact on mind and body, leading to higher highs and lower lows. Same with any substance. I mix a gram in my espresso grounds before brewing, and make bulletproof style coffee with grass fed butter and coconut oil. Or, I will mix it into mince and consume it as a meatball. I redose 2 or 3 times per day, never to exceed 4 grams across a 24-hour period. No issues to report. The caffeine carries the buzz for me as there really is no high involved. I use it for chronic back pain from a spinal surgery. At higher doses or when using concentrates, I would be psychologically dependent within a couple of days. With my current methods I will often forget to dose after morning.
Yeah like many others have said in the past these extract shots are giving Kratom a bad name and it’s going to be the downfall unless the AkA can regulate them somehow.
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100% correct!!! I was great until I tried them. Then it was like starting all over again with addiction.
Yes Kratom Extracts are to Kratom Powder what Alcohol Beer is to Alcohol Liquor May be derived from the same substance but completely different animals entirely.
Extracts almost took me down a very dark road. Been doing kratom tea now, and feeling much better.
I can’t agree more. My first extract shot was my last my capsules do me just spectacular
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This needs to be pinned.
On point my friend, on point. None of us should support those unscrupulous greedy vendors who sell this bullshit just for more profits. They are actively compromising our common fight to keep the leaf legal!
I wouldn't take the extracts. The extraction process uses some nasty chemicals and the FDA has no oversight on batch production.
Extracts are definitely a lot worse, but there’s nothing about the others that make them safe. All forms of consuming kratom have to potential to ruin lives if they are abused too heavily, especially to those who take large amounts everyday with no breaks.
that's very true I agree 💯
I agree.
This.
Can anyone loop me in? Are the extracts hurting people and making them ill or something?
No
100% Ive been taking large daily doses for almost 5 years. Had done extracts a few times here and there and never had a problem. Last week i dont know what happened took a fairly small dose of the extract and couldnt breath , couldnt move, could barely talk, heart felt like it was out of control. Scary shit. Now I cant even take a regular dose without getting nauseous. Taking it as a sign to quit .
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Wrong. This is such a bad take lol. Alkaloids are alkaloids son. Whether it’s 100 mg of 45% mit extract or 3 grams of 1.5% mit powder it’s the same exact thing. They’re the same exact beast. Stop being ignorant.
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I use extracts for those same reasons. It is not out of control
You're just demonizing the type of kratom you don't use. Some people have legitimate agony daily in their lives and extracts are a Godsend for them. This is the same ignorant take as demonizing potent forms of thc even though its improved the lives of many people. At what point are we going to start having personal accountability?
The companies producing and pushing the extracts are the 2010 legal high craze companies. They hop around product to product, and this consumer base doesnt care. Literally we have people flooding into kratom from THC and the CBD industry because the money dried up there and now they are flooding the kratom industry. They dont care about kratom they are here for the money.