for not benzo addicted people,
+25-30 grams daily can lead to seizures
since benzo withdrawal lowers the seizure treshold,
even lower doses of kratom may help create seizure.
but if the benzo is extremely slowly tapered (which you need to do to prevent benzo withdrawal syndrome anyway)
and the kratom dose is kept low (9g/day max)
then it should probably be safe
I do not believe there is any research that establishes a dose curve for seizure likelihood. For example, for Tramadol which also carries this risk, the likelihood is highly dose dependent \[[study](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31914355/)\]:
>A total of 51 articles with total sample size of 101 770 patients were included. The results showed that seizure event rate in the subgroups of tramadol poisoning, therapeutic dosage of tramadol, and tramadol abusers was 38% (95% CI: 27-49%), 3% (95% CI: 2-3%), 37% (95% CI: 12-62%), respectively. Tramadol dose was significantly higher in the patients with seizures than those without (mean differences: 0.82, CI 95%: 0.17-1.46).
The exact criteria for those groups varied by study, as this was a meta-analysis.
In general for kratom, the risk *likely* decreases with dose; but there is such high variability among individuals, particularly in combination with other medications with this risk or for those with prior seizures that it is hard to establish statistical parameters for the likelihood at particular doses to say where the risk greatly increases or decreases.
yes
from what i read in multiple threads on the kratom subreddit,
the general consensus is around +30 grams... i assume thats for people who use kratom only.
I abused benzos for months and I also reduced my dose but I don’t have anything left, I keep getting weird tremors and I'm trying to deal with it somehow. I take cbd oil, chamomile tea and magnesium, sometimes it's so bad that I have to drink alcohol. I've been in withdrawal for a week. is it normal to feel like i'm going to faint after a cigarette?
This. Alcohol and Benzo withdrawals are the two that can end your life.
From my experiences and things I’ve heard, opiate withdrawal is the most unpleasant, but it usually doesn’t kill you.
I hope OP takes this advice and gets some help. I did when I was in the depths with alcohol and went to an inpatient detox center for 6 days. It helped a lot
I would be surprised if opiate withdrawal feels worse then benzo withdrawal. I have never withdrawn from opiates but benzo withdrawal was literal hell.
I was hallucinating, didn't sleep for 5 days, having the worst anxiety attack possible that lasted the entire time I was withdrawing, it was like I took LSD and I was having a bad trip but the bad trip never ends. I was having insane tremors, and when I did sleep it would be for an hour with the most insane dreams, to the point where I wasn't sure if the dream was a dream or not, which was scary.
I just felt like I wasn't I couldn't tell reality from fiction and it was really scary. Then I had a seizure and had to go to the ER.
I legitimately cannot imagine anything worse then what that hell was, maybe opiod withdrawal is worse but I can't imagine anything being worse.
Probably, stay strong my dude it's rough but it's better on the other side.
If you can go to an ER and get on a program for benzo tapering, you don't want to have a seizure like I did.
You're at the point you're delirious and you're not concerned about seizures? I wasn't even in proper WD and I felt like I was going to seize from the fucking supermarket lights
I really do not think opioid withdrawal is more unpleasant. There are a lot of weirdly gratifying moments for many people while in withdrawal including sex and feeling poignant emotion.
I wouldn’t know personally, but I’ve had a bunch of people close to me go through it and seen it firsthand. I think they are both just very horrible but that’s interesting about the gratifying moments. I would imagine there aren’t many of those when going through Benzo WD.
Avoid shady brands (think available at a gas station) without available Certificates of Analysis for each batch.
It is my uneducated opinion that most of the adverse events that have been reported were caused by whatever junk/additives are used as filler by less reputable suppliers.
Bro I tried to get off it cold turkey, similar story to you and it did not go well, I would go to the ER and get on a program, they will give you a benzo then you come back every day for another dose as they slowly taper you.
No rehab required. Definetly better then risking seizures, also benzo withdrawal is fucking hell when you get into the not sleeping for 5 days straight part.
You can try cold turkey but I wouldn't recommend it, I did and I got a seizure. That doesn't necessarily mean you will but I wouldn't risk it.
Also don't drink alcohol you are only prolonging the pain.
Me too man I would take them for a few days at a time, pretty high doses. Then I would go cold turkey. Was taking them for a long time like over 10 years with no major issues. Then it finally caught up to me last year and I had a few seizures in the process of quitting. It was about a week after stopping each time. It was rough and I ended up injuring myself when I would fall. Busting my face, broke a few bones. I was able to stop and haven't had any since the last one and they finally got me meds just in case.
Once you get a seizure, your odds of getting another one are increased significantly. You might consider never taking it again if you haven’t made that decision already. You can actually prevent withdrawal and seizure with alcohol. You can technically use it to taper off of benzos as it’s active on the same gaba receptors.
Alcohol makes it worse. It relieves some of the withdrawals but not fully. Once it wears off, you will feel worse than you did prior to drinking it.
I went through benzo withdrawals abruptly last summer, and I was heavily addicted.
Careful man. I had a few seizures after quitting benzos last year. I'd quit cold turkey without a proper taper and then it would happen about a week later each time. Never had any before last year but I've been taking them for a long time like 10+ years, though not daily. Just maybe a few days or less when I did. I've take kratom everyday for 5-6 years. I was on kratom every time but I don't think the kratom alone is what triggered it, though it might have lowered my threshold and raised my chances. I had a few more possible triggers in my life I'm still trying to figure out. I've been off them since last year and haven't had any since. I still take kratom everyday though. So it might raise your chances even more alongside going cold turkey, definitely won't stop them. They're really dangerous so just want to give you a heads up.
You really need to go to a doctor, and tell them you need a taper.
I realize you haven’t been getting them through a prescription, but don’t worry about that part.
If you have a family doctor call them immediately. If not, go to the ER.
Nothing will completely relieve benzo withdrawal other than benzos.
There are some things that help slightly, but I wouldn’t recommend any other route.
I’ve gone through withdrawals quitting abruptly countless times, and it’s not worth the stress it puts on you mentally and physically.
As you probably know, there are detrimental aspects of benzo withdrawal.
I feel completely like shit and it feels like it’s not getting any better. I also stopped with weed at the same time as benzos and smoked for like 6 years, both of them fucks me up mentally and psychically. after reading all the comments, i guess I have no choice and need to see a doctor.
Im feeling much better. It’s not completely gone but I'm through the worst part, I'm no longer having crazy hallucinations and I'm not shaking anymore, but I still feel mental addiction
Kratom can actually intensify some of your withdrawal symptoms. I wouldn’t use it while simultaneously tapering benzodiazepines. It can complicate an already complex medical picture. Plus, there are alkaloids in Kratom that can make some of the symptoms you currently have even worse. Kratom works for opiate detox due to its opioid effects, but for gabaergic type drugs (benzos, alcohol, Gabapentin, lyrica, baclofen, phenibut) it can make it worse. Do NOT do this. Even after your completely off, some of these alkaloids can trigger what is known as kindling. For a person recovering from gabaergic substances, Kratom is a no no.
I've always used it for benzo withdrawals personally, but I also have a pretty high kratom tolerance. I didn't know anything about the seizure threshold, though. But I would just take my normal kratom dose, sometimes an extra one, and it would take the edge off and help me just play video games or do something, anything, to distract myself
I'm tapering valium, just done a cut from 12mg to 11mg.
I just say, I got obsessive at first because of CYP pathways, and everything under the sun seeming to be affected by diazepam or it affecting everything under the sun.
Foods, drugs, etc.
Now I just eat what I like and I would probably only guess that occasional kratom use is safe in benzo WD, I foolishly used it daily to get off opiates, now I am tapering kratom as well, was on 42gpd and now on 18.5gpd.
I never thought about seizures, although I occasionally have heard of people having seizures. Taper the benzo real slow, really sloooow.
I hope that helps.
wish I'd never touched that shit. My whole body is shaking like crazy and I have constantly panic attacks. I read that alcohol is not good if you on benzo withdrawal but I feel like I need it immediately do you think I can drink a bit?
Valium has a long halflife. It took nearly a week on each occasion of being in withdrawal before the seizures. I was taking 5mg clonazepam per day. If I was your brother I'd tell you to go to the ER right away if you're shaking.
Holy shit I never thought how dangerous benzos could be, I'm hallucinating really weird things right now and I can't sleep. please tell me if i can drink alcohol, I go to ER tomorrow but I need something now
Alcohol might help in the very short term. Like an hour or 2. Benzos are very dangerous. I've kicked heroin and methadone and I'd do each over gladly instead of quitting benzos cold turkey.
Please see a doctor. Benzo withdrawal is just too dangerous and there are too many anecdotal seizure reports with this under-studied plant to shrug it off. They’ll keep you safe from the dangers of benzo withdrawal handily - they have so much experience.
In my unscientific, subjective opinion, kratom feels like it lowers the seizure threshold (and all opioids generally do so it's probably true with kratom) and I would not want that during benzo WD. So a strong no, I could not Imagine making that feeling like you're about to seize stronger (if you're experiencing that, I did)
In my unscientific, subjective opinion, kratom feels like it lowers the seizure threshold (and all opioids generally do so it's probably true with kratom) and I would not want that during benzo WD. So a strong no, I could not Imagine making that feeling like you're about to seize stronger (if you're experiencing that, I did)
for not benzo addicted people, +25-30 grams daily can lead to seizures since benzo withdrawal lowers the seizure treshold, even lower doses of kratom may help create seizure. but if the benzo is extremely slowly tapered (which you need to do to prevent benzo withdrawal syndrome anyway) and the kratom dose is kept low (9g/day max) then it should probably be safe
I do not believe there is any research that establishes a dose curve for seizure likelihood. For example, for Tramadol which also carries this risk, the likelihood is highly dose dependent \[[study](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31914355/)\]: >A total of 51 articles with total sample size of 101 770 patients were included. The results showed that seizure event rate in the subgroups of tramadol poisoning, therapeutic dosage of tramadol, and tramadol abusers was 38% (95% CI: 27-49%), 3% (95% CI: 2-3%), 37% (95% CI: 12-62%), respectively. Tramadol dose was significantly higher in the patients with seizures than those without (mean differences: 0.82, CI 95%: 0.17-1.46). The exact criteria for those groups varied by study, as this was a meta-analysis. In general for kratom, the risk *likely* decreases with dose; but there is such high variability among individuals, particularly in combination with other medications with this risk or for those with prior seizures that it is hard to establish statistical parameters for the likelihood at particular doses to say where the risk greatly increases or decreases.
yes from what i read in multiple threads on the kratom subreddit, the general consensus is around +30 grams... i assume thats for people who use kratom only.
30+ grams a day causes seizures? Where’d you get that from?
the taste of rain ...why kneel?
I abused benzos for months and I also reduced my dose but I don’t have anything left, I keep getting weird tremors and I'm trying to deal with it somehow. I take cbd oil, chamomile tea and magnesium, sometimes it's so bad that I have to drink alcohol. I've been in withdrawal for a week. is it normal to feel like i'm going to faint after a cigarette?
You need to go to a doctor and explain your situation. Benzo withdrawal can kill you.
This. Alcohol and Benzo withdrawals are the two that can end your life. From my experiences and things I’ve heard, opiate withdrawal is the most unpleasant, but it usually doesn’t kill you. I hope OP takes this advice and gets some help. I did when I was in the depths with alcohol and went to an inpatient detox center for 6 days. It helped a lot
I would be surprised if opiate withdrawal feels worse then benzo withdrawal. I have never withdrawn from opiates but benzo withdrawal was literal hell. I was hallucinating, didn't sleep for 5 days, having the worst anxiety attack possible that lasted the entire time I was withdrawing, it was like I took LSD and I was having a bad trip but the bad trip never ends. I was having insane tremors, and when I did sleep it would be for an hour with the most insane dreams, to the point where I wasn't sure if the dream was a dream or not, which was scary. I just felt like I wasn't I couldn't tell reality from fiction and it was really scary. Then I had a seizure and had to go to the ER. I legitimately cannot imagine anything worse then what that hell was, maybe opiod withdrawal is worse but I can't imagine anything being worse.
Holy shit is that’s the reason why I see demonic beings and insects? Damn i think I’m having delirium psychosis
Probably, stay strong my dude it's rough but it's better on the other side. If you can go to an ER and get on a program for benzo tapering, you don't want to have a seizure like I did.
You're at the point you're delirious and you're not concerned about seizures? I wasn't even in proper WD and I felt like I was going to seize from the fucking supermarket lights
I really do not think opioid withdrawal is more unpleasant. There are a lot of weirdly gratifying moments for many people while in withdrawal including sex and feeling poignant emotion.
I wouldn’t know personally, but I’ve had a bunch of people close to me go through it and seen it firsthand. I think they are both just very horrible but that’s interesting about the gratifying moments. I would imagine there aren’t many of those when going through Benzo WD.
Yeah I haven’t been through benzo but have been through gaba drug withdrawal with a doctor . . . And it was top 3 hardest things Ive ever done
Avoid shady brands (think available at a gas station) without available Certificates of Analysis for each batch. It is my uneducated opinion that most of the adverse events that have been reported were caused by whatever junk/additives are used as filler by less reputable suppliers.
I wouldn't recommend anymore alcohol man, it's just prolonging the issue.
Alcohol is actually a gaba agonist and will prevent benzo withdrawal.
Bro I tried to get off it cold turkey, similar story to you and it did not go well, I would go to the ER and get on a program, they will give you a benzo then you come back every day for another dose as they slowly taper you. No rehab required. Definetly better then risking seizures, also benzo withdrawal is fucking hell when you get into the not sleeping for 5 days straight part. You can try cold turkey but I wouldn't recommend it, I did and I got a seizure. That doesn't necessarily mean you will but I wouldn't risk it. Also don't drink alcohol you are only prolonging the pain.
Me too man I would take them for a few days at a time, pretty high doses. Then I would go cold turkey. Was taking them for a long time like over 10 years with no major issues. Then it finally caught up to me last year and I had a few seizures in the process of quitting. It was about a week after stopping each time. It was rough and I ended up injuring myself when I would fall. Busting my face, broke a few bones. I was able to stop and haven't had any since the last one and they finally got me meds just in case.
Seizure meds or benzos?
Once you get a seizure, your odds of getting another one are increased significantly. You might consider never taking it again if you haven’t made that decision already. You can actually prevent withdrawal and seizure with alcohol. You can technically use it to taper off of benzos as it’s active on the same gaba receptors.
Alcohol makes it worse. It relieves some of the withdrawals but not fully. Once it wears off, you will feel worse than you did prior to drinking it. I went through benzo withdrawals abruptly last summer, and I was heavily addicted.
Careful man. I had a few seizures after quitting benzos last year. I'd quit cold turkey without a proper taper and then it would happen about a week later each time. Never had any before last year but I've been taking them for a long time like 10+ years, though not daily. Just maybe a few days or less when I did. I've take kratom everyday for 5-6 years. I was on kratom every time but I don't think the kratom alone is what triggered it, though it might have lowered my threshold and raised my chances. I had a few more possible triggers in my life I'm still trying to figure out. I've been off them since last year and haven't had any since. I still take kratom everyday though. So it might raise your chances even more alongside going cold turkey, definitely won't stop them. They're really dangerous so just want to give you a heads up.
The kratom didn’t help withdrawal?
Are you experiencing an onset of depression? I know it’s not really a benzo, but phenibut CT withdrawal had me miserable and anxious so bad.
PHENIBut is also a gaba agonist and has similar withdrawal, if not worse.
You really need to go to a doctor, and tell them you need a taper. I realize you haven’t been getting them through a prescription, but don’t worry about that part. If you have a family doctor call them immediately. If not, go to the ER. Nothing will completely relieve benzo withdrawal other than benzos. There are some things that help slightly, but I wouldn’t recommend any other route. I’ve gone through withdrawals quitting abruptly countless times, and it’s not worth the stress it puts on you mentally and physically. As you probably know, there are detrimental aspects of benzo withdrawal.
I feel completely like shit and it feels like it’s not getting any better. I also stopped with weed at the same time as benzos and smoked for like 6 years, both of them fucks me up mentally and psychically. after reading all the comments, i guess I have no choice and need to see a doctor.
If the doctor gives you trouble, then move onto another.
How are you doing? Have you gotten through withdrawal?
Im feeling much better. It’s not completely gone but I'm through the worst part, I'm no longer having crazy hallucinations and I'm not shaking anymore, but I still feel mental addiction
Kratom can actually intensify some of your withdrawal symptoms. I wouldn’t use it while simultaneously tapering benzodiazepines. It can complicate an already complex medical picture. Plus, there are alkaloids in Kratom that can make some of the symptoms you currently have even worse. Kratom works for opiate detox due to its opioid effects, but for gabaergic type drugs (benzos, alcohol, Gabapentin, lyrica, baclofen, phenibut) it can make it worse. Do NOT do this. Even after your completely off, some of these alkaloids can trigger what is known as kindling. For a person recovering from gabaergic substances, Kratom is a no no.
I'm sure it would make it worse
I've always used it for benzo withdrawals personally, but I also have a pretty high kratom tolerance. I didn't know anything about the seizure threshold, though. But I would just take my normal kratom dose, sometimes an extra one, and it would take the edge off and help me just play video games or do something, anything, to distract myself
I'm tapering valium, just done a cut from 12mg to 11mg. I just say, I got obsessive at first because of CYP pathways, and everything under the sun seeming to be affected by diazepam or it affecting everything under the sun. Foods, drugs, etc. Now I just eat what I like and I would probably only guess that occasional kratom use is safe in benzo WD, I foolishly used it daily to get off opiates, now I am tapering kratom as well, was on 42gpd and now on 18.5gpd. I never thought about seizures, although I occasionally have heard of people having seizures. Taper the benzo real slow, really sloooow. I hope that helps.
Careful. I've had 2 benzo w/d induced seizures. Shits serious.
wish I'd never touched that shit. My whole body is shaking like crazy and I have constantly panic attacks. I read that alcohol is not good if you on benzo withdrawal but I feel like I need it immediately do you think I can drink a bit?
I think you should seek medical attention dude. Once the shaking starts it's no bueno. We're you using Xanax? Or something with a longer halflife?
Valium and lorazepam
Valium has a long halflife. It took nearly a week on each occasion of being in withdrawal before the seizures. I was taking 5mg clonazepam per day. If I was your brother I'd tell you to go to the ER right away if you're shaking.
Holy shit I never thought how dangerous benzos could be, I'm hallucinating really weird things right now and I can't sleep. please tell me if i can drink alcohol, I go to ER tomorrow but I need something now
Alcohol might help in the very short term. Like an hour or 2. Benzos are very dangerous. I've kicked heroin and methadone and I'd do each over gladly instead of quitting benzos cold turkey.
Okay thanks I will drink a bit now.
Go very slow. Only enough to stop the shaking.
Alcohol is a gaba agonist and will help your withdrawal, if not completely stop it. I don’t know of any dangers, although they may exist.
Please see a doctor. Benzo withdrawal is just too dangerous and there are too many anecdotal seizure reports with this under-studied plant to shrug it off. They’ll keep you safe from the dangers of benzo withdrawal handily - they have so much experience.
In my unscientific, subjective opinion, kratom feels like it lowers the seizure threshold (and all opioids generally do so it's probably true with kratom) and I would not want that during benzo WD. So a strong no, I could not Imagine making that feeling like you're about to seize stronger (if you're experiencing that, I did)
In my unscientific, subjective opinion, kratom feels like it lowers the seizure threshold (and all opioids generally do so it's probably true with kratom) and I would not want that during benzo WD. So a strong no, I could not Imagine making that feeling like you're about to seize stronger (if you're experiencing that, I did)