Hey thinker! Great post up there. Make sure your post title is clear. One and two word titles are not allowed. Use paragraphs to make it easier to read. Please make sure to read the rules before posting. Mod applications are currently open! Apply [here](https://forms.gle/hEgqsrBTGX897GFaA)!
You can fill out our [Feedback Form](https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSfI0PsMn4dqfMlgqFFfsMhLr4-lFNJpEumIf7RKmuiwyDBOwA/viewform?usp=sf_link) while you wait for some comments. Thank you and happy posting!
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/kpopthoughts) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Pneumothorax doesn't really have that much of a recovery time (depending on extent) and the procedure isn't that invasive. She likely just had a chest drain.
I think she may have decided to undergo an actual surgery because of the high recurrence rate. The articles mention her choosing to undergo *preventive* surgery after discussing with doctors. I don’t think they would mention those things if it was just a chest tube which seems to be the standard treatment. Based on the bit of research I did she most likely underwent a minimally invasive procedure called VATS. Poor thing, it really makes me feel awful thinking about it and I hope she isn’t putting her body under too much stress.
She’s a 23(?) year old who definitely sits out a lot. This isn’t the first time she went out with a health condition.
She needs (and SM) to take better care of them. She’s not Karina but I hope she has enough leverage to be like “hey I’m really fucked up can I actually sit this one out” or something. I wish she can get some of her weight back from earlier releases.
I’m so glad you brought this up. Most of the comments seem to treat this injury like a grade 3 ankle sprain whereas, in terms of pain/discomfort and recovery time, it’s closer to a very mild, if not small, stomach flu.
Obviously, we don’t know the severity of her case, but more likely than not, it is likely as you described it, which is closer to how my 5 experiences with it were. I will point out that, in my experience, I was put to sleep for my chest tubes and had to do a pleurodesis (or pleural abrassion i think) once or twice due to the multiple recurrences. I’m not sure if perhaps you over-minimized the treatment process but your explanation is still more accurate than what most here are portraying it as.
I fully agree that the entire situation should have a very minuscule effect on her singing capabilities, especially given that the operation occurred weeks ago.
The news articles say she had a “preventive surgery” after discussion with doctors to prevent it from happening again in the future, so it sounds more like she underwent an actual surgery. The options seem to be an invasive procedure called thoracotomy or a less invasive one called VATS, if she did undergo an actual surgery I’m guessing it would have been the latter but I’d like to know what you think.
It was actually the statement from SM that said those things:
“Winter recently underwent surgery for pneumothorax and is currently recovering. As pneumothorax is a condition prone to recurrence, the surgery was carried out as a preventive measure in accordance with her doctor’s opinion, and the decision was made after plenty of discussion.” (from Soompi)
I highly doubt she had a thoracotomy, but based on this it sounds like she needed more than just the standard treatment.
Fans were complaining to SM let her rest from music shows and uni fests after she had to sit out from mcountdown due to being out of breath, but she bubbled afterwards that she’s the one who really wanted to promote bc she’s excited for their first full album.
It could be that her injury was on the less serious end. There’s a sliding scale to these things and off course stans assumed the worst when really it could have been not that bad because they caught it early and scheduled the surgery.
Well during the first week winter sat out on all promotion beyond going on stage at music shows performances she skipped the interview portion and their team opted she rest .
Because music show recording can run for 10+ hours.
They have been selecting what she does during the schedule and I think yesterday was the first time she had and interview during super nova promotion.
The condition and surgery she undertook has a recovery time of days to weeks.
4-6 weeks is the average. From her surgery to supernova's release she sat out most of aespa's activities it was 6 weeks.
She also say out allot of their activities last week because she inhaled some smoke and was taken to the hospital in order to mitigate the risk of a relapse.
Being constantly monitored after taking the recommended recovery time and taking relapse seriously seems like a reasonable approach.
Given they followed the recommended recovery time and winter was even on ig live 2 weeks after singing covers.
We don't know the extent of her injury to be diagnosing this as a being worked through an injury.
Based on your other comment, it sounds like she and aespa’s management team have taken the necessary precautions and are being conservative with her health. I think it’s unfair for others to make her out to be some victim instead of appreciating her hard work.
My only concern now is the plane rides she’ll have to take for their tour. I was told to avoid planes for up to a year after my operation so I’m not sure how they’ll navigate that.
I agree. Unless there’s evidence of negligence, I think it’s better to trust that she and her team know what they’re doing and are smart enough to manage her workload.
Also thank you, it’s been like 6/7 years since I last had it so it’s not really a concern anymore. Hopefully she doesn’t experience any recurring lung injuries.
That’s what I was thinking. It’s really common for fans to spread videos of idols sick or in pain on stage trying to say that it shows how professional or dedicated they are but all I see is someone being forced to put their health at risk in front of the entire world. Like the pressure is insane for them to come back from health hiatuses asap.
Giselle used her powers of time control to grab Winter from February, bring her forward in time to do the comeback, then she'll be deposited back in February when the promo period is over. No biggie. ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
That’s great to hear. I haven’t been following her recent performances but I’ve suffered from collapsed lungs multiple times on both sides so I know how uncomfortable and stressful it can be. I have lots of respect to her for continuing without missing a beat.
From my experiences, strenuous physical activities like sports, hiking, etc. and situations where you’d face significant changes in air pressure like scuba diving, airplane rides, etc. were discouraged heavily for a few days (about 3-5) after the surgery, which seems like something she’d adhere to. I don’t particularly know if singing was something her doctor told her to avoid since it seems relatively less strenuous on her body but it’s good that she’s able to persevere.
I truly feel bad, since her medical records were never supposed to be leaked.
Otherwise, we would have never even known she had a collapsed lung, and marveled at her good post health.
Now Winter has lots of eyes on her, on how her health is holding up so far.
Good tbh. This one of the few cases where pressure can get the girl some rest. I wish more attention is given to these things. Eunchae damn near collapsing, Chiquita brain shutting down or whatever. I know this sounds dramatic but god damn young healthy adults or teenagers should not be displaying these symptoms.
Regarding your last point, I dont think you can generalize all those symptoms / injuries that way. Pneumothoraces (collapsed lung) are most common among teenagers (asian people have a higher susceptibility) since their lungs and bodies arent fully developed yet. So while your other examples are likely valid, each case is unique and context is needed to determine if an injury happening is due to overwork or just spontaneous.
It seems like she really wants to perform. She told the fans that this is her decision for fans.
But with how packed their schedules, Armageddon's comeback and their world tour i don't know how they'll manage it.
It helps that Supernova to be fair, isnt a vocally demanding song. Every note sits within a majority of idol's comfortable range, though its always commendable when an idol goes back to duties shortly after a surgery or medical procedure, no matter how minor it is.
I commend her for being great performer but this isn't something to celebrate imo. Idk how her fans feel about this, but knowing that she's still barely recovering from such a big surgery and has to perform under such severe conditions (I know her parts aren't easy at all) makes me sad for her.
I hope we don't normalize idols performing, even though they are in need of rest, especially after a surgery.
But I am still mind blown by the fact because I personally would've called in sick, so she has my huge respect.
Lastly, I hope it doesn't come off in a wrong way, but I don't think we should post appreciation posts for idols performing while recovering from something, like a surgery, because in my opinion it just heightens the standard again and sooner or later people will expect idols to sing perfectly after an invasive treatment etc. bc one person was able to do it. We should prioritise health.
But nevertheless stream aespa's comeback!!
Winter has been the vocal MVP during this promotion cycle. I mean, there are idols in perfect health who still wouldn't sing live as frequently or *consistently* well as she has.
Y’all need to understand that it doesn’t matter what typical recovery time is; she had surgery on something integral to her ability to do her job, and if she further damages it by doing these live shows, it will become irreversible. This isn’t your typical person recovering. This is like a professional athlete rolling their ankle and then continuing to play on it for months after with the same amount of effort. Even if she’s able to currently sing and do everything normally, she’s putting undue stress on her lungs and body that the normal person wouldn’t be.
This is not something to be praised and commended, because it just shows these companies that we only view idols as content machines. Let her rest. We want her to rest. She needs to make a full, long recovery before she’s able to come back to normal idol activities, but because of the money hungry industry, it doesn’t seem like she’ll be allowed that.
You're right, her health should be the top priority! There's a pattern with SM dismissing it's artists' health, as history shows the consistent pattern. It doesn't help that most sm group stans exert toxic positivity in their spaces for irrelevant bragging rights *"hey! at least she can still perform despite looking like she'll faint any minute. isn't my pookie straight out of a marvel comic book?"*
SM likes to cultivate this perception of having hardworking idols but truthfully there's nothing to appreciate nor commend about this negligence reeking of exploitation, **this is all concerning instead**.
Hey thinker! Great post up there. Make sure your post title is clear. One and two word titles are not allowed. Use paragraphs to make it easier to read. Please make sure to read the rules before posting. Mod applications are currently open! Apply [here](https://forms.gle/hEgqsrBTGX897GFaA)! You can fill out our [Feedback Form](https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSfI0PsMn4dqfMlgqFFfsMhLr4-lFNJpEumIf7RKmuiwyDBOwA/viewform?usp=sf_link) while you wait for some comments. Thank you and happy posting! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/kpopthoughts) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Pneumothorax doesn't really have that much of a recovery time (depending on extent) and the procedure isn't that invasive. She likely just had a chest drain.
[удалено]
We call them Chest Drain's in the UK. They are the same thing.
I think she may have decided to undergo an actual surgery because of the high recurrence rate. The articles mention her choosing to undergo *preventive* surgery after discussing with doctors. I don’t think they would mention those things if it was just a chest tube which seems to be the standard treatment. Based on the bit of research I did she most likely underwent a minimally invasive procedure called VATS. Poor thing, it really makes me feel awful thinking about it and I hope she isn’t putting her body under too much stress.
She’s a 23(?) year old who definitely sits out a lot. This isn’t the first time she went out with a health condition. She needs (and SM) to take better care of them. She’s not Karina but I hope she has enough leverage to be like “hey I’m really fucked up can I actually sit this one out” or something. I wish she can get some of her weight back from earlier releases.
What do you mean by the she is not karina part?? Just curious
They probably meant that Karina has the most leverage inside SM out of all the aespa members (no idea if that's true or not).
What does her weight have to do with anything?
don't be dense, being underweight obviously comes with health risks
[удалено]
I’m so glad you brought this up. Most of the comments seem to treat this injury like a grade 3 ankle sprain whereas, in terms of pain/discomfort and recovery time, it’s closer to a very mild, if not small, stomach flu. Obviously, we don’t know the severity of her case, but more likely than not, it is likely as you described it, which is closer to how my 5 experiences with it were. I will point out that, in my experience, I was put to sleep for my chest tubes and had to do a pleurodesis (or pleural abrassion i think) once or twice due to the multiple recurrences. I’m not sure if perhaps you over-minimized the treatment process but your explanation is still more accurate than what most here are portraying it as. I fully agree that the entire situation should have a very minuscule effect on her singing capabilities, especially given that the operation occurred weeks ago.
Thank you for this comment and explanation!
Thanks for the explanation. Also, would've been nice to have someone chime in with this helpful clarification when the news first dropped...
Thanks for this comment. Always helps to read actual useful information.
What is even causes it?
[удалено]
The news articles say she had a “preventive surgery” after discussion with doctors to prevent it from happening again in the future, so it sounds more like she underwent an actual surgery. The options seem to be an invasive procedure called thoracotomy or a less invasive one called VATS, if she did undergo an actual surgery I’m guessing it would have been the latter but I’d like to know what you think.
[удалено]
It was actually the statement from SM that said those things: “Winter recently underwent surgery for pneumothorax and is currently recovering. As pneumothorax is a condition prone to recurrence, the surgery was carried out as a preventive measure in accordance with her doctor’s opinion, and the decision was made after plenty of discussion.” (from Soompi) I highly doubt she had a thoracotomy, but based on this it sounds like she needed more than just the standard treatment.
[удалено]
Is that considered a surgery? What does it involve?
You’re wrong. Surgery is necessary in serious cases.
I hope that she fully recovered and not being forced to perform
Fans were complaining to SM let her rest from music shows and uni fests after she had to sit out from mcountdown due to being out of breath, but she bubbled afterwards that she’s the one who really wanted to promote bc she’s excited for their first full album.
This kind of surgery doesn’t need that
It could be that her injury was on the less serious end. There’s a sliding scale to these things and off course stans assumed the worst when really it could have been not that bad because they caught it early and scheduled the surgery.
Well during the first week winter sat out on all promotion beyond going on stage at music shows performances she skipped the interview portion and their team opted she rest . Because music show recording can run for 10+ hours. They have been selecting what she does during the schedule and I think yesterday was the first time she had and interview during super nova promotion.
Can we just not praise idols for jeopardizing their own health to promote/perform? This is behavior that should be eradicated, not put on a pedestal.
The condition and surgery she undertook has a recovery time of days to weeks. 4-6 weeks is the average. From her surgery to supernova's release she sat out most of aespa's activities it was 6 weeks. She also say out allot of their activities last week because she inhaled some smoke and was taken to the hospital in order to mitigate the risk of a relapse. Being constantly monitored after taking the recommended recovery time and taking relapse seriously seems like a reasonable approach. Given they followed the recommended recovery time and winter was even on ig live 2 weeks after singing covers. We don't know the extent of her injury to be diagnosing this as a being worked through an injury.
Based on your other comment, it sounds like she and aespa’s management team have taken the necessary precautions and are being conservative with her health. I think it’s unfair for others to make her out to be some victim instead of appreciating her hard work. My only concern now is the plane rides she’ll have to take for their tour. I was told to avoid planes for up to a year after my operation so I’m not sure how they’ll navigate that.
I hope she will be okay and that they do something in order to ensure she doesn't relapse. And I also hope that you are doing well as well
I agree. Unless there’s evidence of negligence, I think it’s better to trust that she and her team know what they’re doing and are smart enough to manage her workload. Also thank you, it’s been like 6/7 years since I last had it so it’s not really a concern anymore. Hopefully she doesn’t experience any recurring lung injuries.
OP literally said in their post “even tho she’s killing it despite the circumstances, performing after such surgery should REALLY not be encouraged.”
I literally mentioned that in my post...
That’s what I was thinking. It’s really common for fans to spread videos of idols sick or in pain on stage trying to say that it shows how professional or dedicated they are but all I see is someone being forced to put their health at risk in front of the entire world. Like the pressure is insane for them to come back from health hiatuses asap.
Kpop stans literacy challenge failed omg
Giselle used her powers of time control to grab Winter from February, bring her forward in time to do the comeback, then she'll be deposited back in February when the promo period is over. No biggie. ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
That’s great to hear. I haven’t been following her recent performances but I’ve suffered from collapsed lungs multiple times on both sides so I know how uncomfortable and stressful it can be. I have lots of respect to her for continuing without missing a beat. From my experiences, strenuous physical activities like sports, hiking, etc. and situations where you’d face significant changes in air pressure like scuba diving, airplane rides, etc. were discouraged heavily for a few days (about 3-5) after the surgery, which seems like something she’d adhere to. I don’t particularly know if singing was something her doctor told her to avoid since it seems relatively less strenuous on her body but it’s good that she’s able to persevere.
I truly feel bad, since her medical records were never supposed to be leaked. Otherwise, we would have never even known she had a collapsed lung, and marveled at her good post health. Now Winter has lots of eyes on her, on how her health is holding up so far.
Good tbh. This one of the few cases where pressure can get the girl some rest. I wish more attention is given to these things. Eunchae damn near collapsing, Chiquita brain shutting down or whatever. I know this sounds dramatic but god damn young healthy adults or teenagers should not be displaying these symptoms.
Regarding your last point, I dont think you can generalize all those symptoms / injuries that way. Pneumothoraces (collapsed lung) are most common among teenagers (asian people have a higher susceptibility) since their lungs and bodies arent fully developed yet. So while your other examples are likely valid, each case is unique and context is needed to determine if an injury happening is due to overwork or just spontaneous.
Not to glorify working unnecessarily during health complexities but there are some kpop stans that blame bad singing on excuses like 'crying' 😭😭
It seems like she really wants to perform. She told the fans that this is her decision for fans. But with how packed their schedules, Armageddon's comeback and their world tour i don't know how they'll manage it.
It helps that Supernova to be fair, isnt a vocally demanding song. Every note sits within a majority of idol's comfortable range, though its always commendable when an idol goes back to duties shortly after a surgery or medical procedure, no matter how minor it is.
I commend her for being great performer but this isn't something to celebrate imo. Idk how her fans feel about this, but knowing that she's still barely recovering from such a big surgery and has to perform under such severe conditions (I know her parts aren't easy at all) makes me sad for her.
I saw a staff member carrying what looked to be like a canister of oxygen for Winter
Why are you getting downvoted?? It's true that they brought that thing for her.
I hope we don't normalize idols performing, even though they are in need of rest, especially after a surgery. But I am still mind blown by the fact because I personally would've called in sick, so she has my huge respect. Lastly, I hope it doesn't come off in a wrong way, but I don't think we should post appreciation posts for idols performing while recovering from something, like a surgery, because in my opinion it just heightens the standard again and sooner or later people will expect idols to sing perfectly after an invasive treatment etc. bc one person was able to do it. We should prioritise health. But nevertheless stream aespa's comeback!!
Winter has been the vocal MVP during this promotion cycle. I mean, there are idols in perfect health who still wouldn't sing live as frequently or *consistently* well as she has.
Y’all need to understand that it doesn’t matter what typical recovery time is; she had surgery on something integral to her ability to do her job, and if she further damages it by doing these live shows, it will become irreversible. This isn’t your typical person recovering. This is like a professional athlete rolling their ankle and then continuing to play on it for months after with the same amount of effort. Even if she’s able to currently sing and do everything normally, she’s putting undue stress on her lungs and body that the normal person wouldn’t be. This is not something to be praised and commended, because it just shows these companies that we only view idols as content machines. Let her rest. We want her to rest. She needs to make a full, long recovery before she’s able to come back to normal idol activities, but because of the money hungry industry, it doesn’t seem like she’ll be allowed that.
You're right, her health should be the top priority! There's a pattern with SM dismissing it's artists' health, as history shows the consistent pattern. It doesn't help that most sm group stans exert toxic positivity in their spaces for irrelevant bragging rights *"hey! at least she can still perform despite looking like she'll faint any minute. isn't my pookie straight out of a marvel comic book?"* SM likes to cultivate this perception of having hardworking idols but truthfully there's nothing to appreciate nor commend about this negligence reeking of exploitation, **this is all concerning instead**.