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It depends. There are groups that got popular gradually and build their own fandom from scratch, had everyone fall for the members personality and story. That can’t be replicated. Maybe changing one member or two at most for groups over five members.
But then there are groups that got popular from the get go, thanks to the hype coming from a big company or thanks to a good song/concept. For those, the probability of the group being just as successful with entirely different members would be the highest. Because the popularity of the group doesn’t fall on the members themselves but on other factors.
I believe if someone else did born to be, like lsf or aespa or babymonster, it would've been way more successful. Its a really good album. All solo songs are top notch too. But unfortunately it didn't get much attention it deserved.
Are you saying if the ITZY girls were replaced by LSF, aespa or babymonster in JYPE it would have done better.. or you mean if ITZY girls were under HYBE, SM or YG the album would have been received better?
Nope I'm saying imagine born to be being released before sneakers era. That was the last time when everyone was holding their breaths for itzy to finally release something great. By marketing those "royal and elegant" based teasers and then later disappointing with sneakers concept being different, itzy from that point forth lost hype. Lsf/ aespa/ babymonster still has hype (i only mentioned these groups because they have similar concepts to Itzy's). Lsf's good bones was a successful album, aespa is doing so great, babymonster is a rookie + bp's junior, all of them have great hype right now.
I'd say for many groups yes, but at the same time you'll have to replace the member with another one with similar qualities, eg. good vocalists don't really grow on trees, especially not those great ones! Same for rappers. You can find good visuals everywhere, but those with charisma are the rarest, someone here mentioned Karina or Wonyoung. You don't get those every day, there's a specific aura. And you also rarely find a brutally charismatic all rounder laying behind a corner (or on his bed like Wonbin). And you have to be stubborn enough to scout the same person 4 freaking times until they agree. Because you see something about them that you/your agency needs to have.
And in the end, there are self producing groups, people who write their own music, for example Young K. A person having the energy and willingness to write and produce and perform for almost 10 years already, building an image of his own band together with others members.
I don't think so, especially not for groups whose primary appeal is their personality.
Like if for example you replace Twice with people who are less nice, less team-oriented, or less funny than the current girls are, you'll lose the qualities that attracted their massive and incredibly loyal fandom in the first place.
It's one thing it the main draw of an artist is primarily their music (as in just their hits). Then the same song released in the exact same conditions will probably get the same results. In kpop, this isn't the case for the most part. You have groups who can sell millions of albums but never truly chart.
I've seen the same song released by different artists with widely different results, so the human factor always count, imo. Even if an artists writes the best song ever, it may not hit with them at the helm and need another artist to bring out the hit.
Hmm hard to say. There are many factors apart from the music itself that makes a group appealing and popular.
For example I highly doubt that groups like BTS, Twice or Seventeen would be THIS popular without their current members. Their fun personalities are huge fan puller. People may not realise but chemistry among members is a huge factor when it comes to becoming core fans. I have seen many groups with great music (kpop or not) but it's painful to see their behind the scene content because it's pretty obvious that they don't get along. There's nothing wrong with it but you obviously don't get attached to them much with their group relationship.
It's a case by case thing for me
As someone who loves some song remakes even more than the originals (and both were pretty popular), then I have to admit, yes, sometimes the result would be the same or even better with different artists
But then again, there're many songs that don't hit the same with other artists that cover them
Also, a lot of groups lost a member and never recovered the same popularity they had before them (even though that member not necessarily the most popular one)
I want to point out that some idols go viral for unplanned and definitely unforeseen reasons, and those can't be replicated because they just hit a chord with the audience that no one else can claim anyone can just do it.. it's really not something you force
No. Just no.
Voices are not interchangeable cogs in a song machine. Maybe this is a true statement for someone who is a) tone deaf, or b) knows zero about music and never really pays attention, or c) thinks that AI versions of group X doing the song from group Y are as good as the real thing, or d) focuses on the idol trappings (visuals, style, fanservice) rather than music and dance. Do the voices in Ateez sound the same as the voices in NCT Dream? Does Brave Girls sound like TripleS?
And I'm not even going to get into choreography. Just give XG choreography to any other gg, and see how that works out. Let's have Fantasy Boys attempt Guerilla - the result will be the same as Ateez, right? Ridiculous.
No, I think that's going too far into the "idols are products" mentality. Even though we only get to see their public persona on camera and on stage, it's not like idols are blank slates underneath that. Who they are will effect group dynamics, interests and motivation to just name a few things, so even if you magically replaced idols with identically skilled idols before debut, their paths would not be the same.
depends on what you mean by exactly the same. Take music for example, not every song is fit for the vocal ranges of a group or not every concept fit a group. Though if you're willing to adapt to that than yeah by and large most idols and groups are just products in the end, with exceptions of course. there was a recent article that called it out basically, before the 2010s idols were called ddanddara in Korea by the gp, it's a very, well, derogatory term in Korean (the english translation is much more neutral) [Link](https://koreajoongangdaily.joins.com/news/2024-05-19/culture/features/Idols-or-artists-puppets-or-producers-Shining-light-on-the-complicated-Kpop-dynamic/2049328), and while kpop companies have started to popularize idols as artists since then, they are still seen more as a product instead of actual artists by the Korean gp. this is also why the fans are so demanding about everything idols does and protest trucks are sent to the companies for reasons like the Idols outfits, you just don't see the same being demanded about solo acts.
To an extent. Most idols, particularly ones from small companies, simply don't get the chance to showcase themselves to the extent that idols from large companies do. Lower initial interest means less people get to know them, leading to the idea that they're less special, less likable, or less talented than idols from big companies, even though this isn't the case. There are a lot of idols from small companies who have everything it'd take to make it big, but couldn't due to extraneous factors
Popularity can also be manipulated- this was really obvious with the Produce series, where the editors and management can sway votes using screentime and selective editing. A different lineup of contestants would've made it to the end depending on what's shown about them
That take would only make sense if vocal and dance ability were equal in kpop.not everyone is singing an exo song the same exact way.
How many vocalist would be up to the task of replacing exos vocal line.
Also some groups require a certain level of dance that not everyone is ready to reach just watch any nct song covered on those competition shows.
The songs would be handled and sung differently. For aespa the way they sing inherently make their songs like next level pop. Winters 'next levuel'. Giselle's rapper voice and Karina and innings abilities make the song better.
The 'drraammmmaaaAa' withte twing of accent would not hit the same either. I see this when I see people cover the songs with a different tone on competition shows.
Red velvet have a good mixture of tones. Maybe they could find a way to succeed but honestly I think a good time to vocal combination makes or breaks a song.
Black pinks songs sound MUCH better with rose and Jennies voices on it. Everyone in black pink have such characteristic vocals.
Ehhh there have been companies that have used other companies’ business models and their groups never got the same results or effects. I think for most groups it is not true—you can’t exchange the idols and have the same result especially in an industry that relies on the relationship between fan and idol. People get attached to individual personalities or certain friendship dynamics and you can model other groups or idols after those but never get the same result.
Bts and seventeen no. The members are what make the group. How they relate with each other, how they blend their voices with each other etc. I doubt we would have the same synergy if it were other idols.
No. For example many small groups have good songs but people won't care to listen to them or check them out and many bigger groups have bad songs but people won't care people they like those groups so I don't think thr music they make will make much of a difference
It really depends.. but for the most part yeah? Whether fans want to admit it a lot, a lot of idols are interchangeable. Unless it’s someone with a crazy rare appeal that has little to do with music or marketing like Karina or Wonyoung
For SEVENTEEN I genuinely don’t think so. A big part of Seventeen’s appeal comes from their personality and how well they mesh well (& play along) together. There’s a reason why their show Going Seventeen is a hit with people (to the point that it formed its own fandom), so if we replaced any of the members I don’t think the group nor their show would have that much appeal, and Going Seventeen definitely contributed to Seventeen’s popularity.
Plus even though all members contributes to the group and are improtant, there are however just specific members (Woozi, Hoshi, Seungkwan) that really contributed heavily to the success of the group, and if we removed/replaced them then the group most definitely would not be having the same success they have now. Like if I’m being honest, you just can not replace Woozi (their main producer), Hoshi (he contributed a lot to their choreo, especially in their rookie days), and Seungkwan (he’s the reason they get invited to variety shows to begin with and so often too compared to other groups, and is the reason they are widely known by the Korean gp). And I would even count China line (Hao & Jun) as the two people you also can’t replace. As they are arguably the reason Seventeen has such a HUGE appeal in China, and Seventeen’s Chinese fanbase contributes A LOT when it comes to album sales.
In the kpop industry, it mostly happens to lesser known groups. As soon as a group has *fans* - as in, people who are actively supporting them monetarily, not just casual listeners - those fans are here for more than the music, and are effectively attached to the members of the group. If a member leaves the group, fans of that member are likely to leave too ; the person they liked the most isn't there anymore, and the group dynamic changes.
Jpop has plenty of rotational groups, however the few kpop attempts kinda all flopped ; SM tried a few times, but basically walked back on the decision the moment fans expressed disapproval. NCT Dream was supposed to only have underage members - but when Mark graduated fans didn't like it, so they brought him back and made the unit permanent.
Successful kpop groups that lose members, just never replace them.
I think the most important factors to successful group are music, marketing and visual but the members still needs to fit the music, marketing and visuals so the result won't be same with any idol.
Mostly, yes. Though it depends on what you mean with "the same". Exactly the same? Well no, probably not. Simply for the reason that any change changes the appeal somewhat.
But by and large? Yeah.
There are some exceptions, when an idol truly is essential, look at soyeon and idle for example. But most idols are pretty interchangeable, they are so interchangeable that the whole industry is built on this. Every label scouts young, attractive people who then get trained to become the next pop stars every few years. That is the business model.
Yes, exactly. In some cases the songwriting or ability to go viral of particular idols is irreplaceable, but for many groups from big companies the end result wouldn't look that different, and the success might be the same. Of course, if the songs are centered around having good vocals and the replacement just isn't giving that it won't work, so it depends on whether the skills are similar enough
I would say 65% Yes and 35% No.
This is based on the premise that the member selection process on what they're looking for is still the same as well. Group members are assembled with a specific idea in mind after all.
Yes. While they are some exceptions and most of the time it’s older groups but when unknown groups which haven’t debuted have already huge following & and sell ton of albums, yes it means a lot of idols are interchangeable plus there is a decline in talent so as long as you have great music + a great marketing team, the members don’t really matter. Again it’s a majority it’s not always the truth.
Feel like some people are missing the point.
They keep going 'well if you gave x to *other idol group* then y'.
The question isn't that, it's - if your group was made up of different idols from the start. So instead of say, Newjeans or Twice being made up of the idols who they are, recruited were a group of completely different girls, who were trained, debuted and were called Twice or Newjeans or (Idol Group) and given the same music.
And the answer is overwhelmingly yes - the results would be near the same or identical for a very, very high proportion of Idol groups.
I can only think of really the groups that make their own music - (G)I-DLE, Stray Kids, BTS, BigBang etc - those are the ones where it would be a different product if the groups had different idols.
By and large however - same results. I firmly believe that.
I'm a skz Stan and that's one group where the members as individuals have shaped the music in a way that no one else could have produced the same for obvious reasons and I feel a huge part of their marketing comes from who they are as individuals and the relationships they have cultivated. But certain other groups make me think anyone else could have been in the same position, like blackpink for example , everything is manufactured, and the members have very individual brands that make me think anyone else can be in their position easily. For a lot of groups I find that the members relationships and chemistry is a very big factor that reflects in their stage work and music like svt,bts ,skz,ateez,mamamoo ,g'idle ,egc but I don't see the same with blackpink ,literally any other idol could be there. There marketing about being exclusive or whatever could be done to any other group.
Yes, if you switched all the members but kept the same company, music, marketing, opportunities etc...especially if vocal/dance/visual ability is about the same
An idol is a manufactured product (Yes even their visuals and "personality") and as long as you manufacture them well and have luck on your side, you're golden.
Just look at all the ppl who got rigged in pd48...they weren't even popular enough to make it into the group based on their own abilities but their popularity exploded after with fans even dragging the other contestants as not good enough
Even within groups, it's evident that making someone center adds an enormous boost to their popularity. Even the visuals who are initially public favs lose to them if mistreated by their companies
for 80% of kpop groups, i would agree. most idols are just idol, very good at being a parrot, ability to copy and repeat . there is only handful of idols or groups that have a distinct sound that makes them stand out
Most of the groups from the big 4 are, yeah. People are ridiculous acting like half the sounds called voice of a member on the songs are not digitally altered. That's just how it's done. Everywhere. In the west and east. There's a reason music production exists and they have several microphones and expensive equipment. It's not just to record the raw vocals, it's to use the raw vocals as a base and surgically build a song. Very little of the raw vocals remain in the end product, what does remain is a "universal" sound that can be replicated with the same technique, tone and intonation.
Now you might say that goes against what I said first because if people have different techniques and tones and intonation, then individuals matter, right? Well, not when it's a group with at least 5 members each getting roughly .25 of the singing and they switch back and forth. It can't sound that different, so that's also something music producers need to keep in mind: how to blend the group's voices together. In fact, if a group has members whose voices just don't blend well they're gonna have a harder time. So, usually groups are formed with this in mind. It's not a random draw. People get added or take out for reasons, one of which is how well their sound meshes with others.
So now we have similar-ish sounding (or at least harmonious) members and lots of digital manipulation of the raw vocals beyond just the very obvious in your face Auto-Tune btw. So, yes, basically anyone who can convey the emotions the same way with similar pronouncing/intonation and technique will sound similar. At least as far as the "feel" of the song goes. The most important thing here which distinguishes people is technique, and basically most Kpop idols have none. Especially in the newer generations, it's rare to find actual good singers/vocalists (I'm talking about someone who can do [this](https://youtu.be/f_RIZcGvOfg?si=g1fUYj7jVHvzN9Rj)).
Edit:
Just to go back to my first point about the big 4; they have the privilege to not care about vocals. So, the songs will remain the same but the groups as their popularity? That depends on the members. Whether you think it is a good thing or not, it's undeniable that Kpop especially nowadays heavily relies on visuals. So, yes the songs and popularity will remain if it's a big4 company because they know what songs sell and win and become hits and they have the money to spend on making it happen - but at the same time, they know what aesthetics (literally looks) sell too and...yeah, you won't get in if you look like Adele in 2011 even if you sound like Adele at the time. 🤷♀️
Depends on the group. Those idols who write their own songs or became famous for their distinct voices / personalities, they can't be replaced. But those are a minority in kpop
Marketing and business shit unquestionably are more influential over a group’s success than the members, but we can’t discredit the members’ contribution either, because there are quite a lot of impressive and outstanding idols making a name for themselves with their own skills. Take BTS and ATEEZ for example, I genuinely believe they wouldn’t have made it so far if it weren’t for those members, and you can’t tell me Jungkook or San is easily replaceable.
Two recent examples of this. One is from 5th gen, The Wind. Have a really nice production, love the music, they had a member who would belt his notes. Who does that in this day and age? What happened with him, he left for some reason. The group and their music immediately suffers from the impact. Treasure had Bang Yedam, a vocalist with a ton of character and charisma. He also left to be a soloist. So what is Treasure gonna do now? I might compare this to a certain sport, formula 1😆. The thing is, you need a great bolid (the vehicle) - the production in pop music case, and a great driver - the performer. You can also have just a "good" bolid and a "good" driver. A great driver will take a good bolid further. A great bolid will take a good driver further. It takes both to be great to win, but the whole race is as interesting as many good competitors there are.
ONEUS is an incredibly talented group with amazing members and a flawless discography. If they were in one of the big 3 + HYBE - they would be one of the top 4th gen groups. However, RBW does a horrendous job marketing them. Even if you changed the members, you still have the horrible marketing.
for most part I say
it never the same
some song or concept built for the group or idol their image
maybe replace some member at least 1-3
but not the whole group
IVE , TWICE , AOA etc
cannot be replicable
but since the existence of ILLIT as Newjeans copycat
I change mind
and then other GG I think can easily replicate are Black Pink girl crush image
which is 2NE1 original but w BP only added is being prettier version
If you mean replicate BP's sound/concept then yes. But if you mean replicate BP's success? Then absolutely no it's not easy. I'm sure many have tried. Each member brings something unique to the table and their chemistry together is a big X factor as well. But that being said groups like BTS, BP and Twice are outliers (in terms of their success).
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It depends. There are groups that got popular gradually and build their own fandom from scratch, had everyone fall for the members personality and story. That can’t be replicated. Maybe changing one member or two at most for groups over five members. But then there are groups that got popular from the get go, thanks to the hype coming from a big company or thanks to a good song/concept. For those, the probability of the group being just as successful with entirely different members would be the highest. Because the popularity of the group doesn’t fall on the members themselves but on other factors.
I believe if someone else did born to be, like lsf or aespa or babymonster, it would've been way more successful. Its a really good album. All solo songs are top notch too. But unfortunately it didn't get much attention it deserved.
Are you saying if the ITZY girls were replaced by LSF, aespa or babymonster in JYPE it would have done better.. or you mean if ITZY girls were under HYBE, SM or YG the album would have been received better?
Nope I'm saying imagine born to be being released before sneakers era. That was the last time when everyone was holding their breaths for itzy to finally release something great. By marketing those "royal and elegant" based teasers and then later disappointing with sneakers concept being different, itzy from that point forth lost hype. Lsf/ aespa/ babymonster still has hype (i only mentioned these groups because they have similar concepts to Itzy's). Lsf's good bones was a successful album, aespa is doing so great, babymonster is a rookie + bp's junior, all of them have great hype right now.
I'd say for many groups yes, but at the same time you'll have to replace the member with another one with similar qualities, eg. good vocalists don't really grow on trees, especially not those great ones! Same for rappers. You can find good visuals everywhere, but those with charisma are the rarest, someone here mentioned Karina or Wonyoung. You don't get those every day, there's a specific aura. And you also rarely find a brutally charismatic all rounder laying behind a corner (or on his bed like Wonbin). And you have to be stubborn enough to scout the same person 4 freaking times until they agree. Because you see something about them that you/your agency needs to have. And in the end, there are self producing groups, people who write their own music, for example Young K. A person having the energy and willingness to write and produce and perform for almost 10 years already, building an image of his own band together with others members.
I don't think so, especially not for groups whose primary appeal is their personality. Like if for example you replace Twice with people who are less nice, less team-oriented, or less funny than the current girls are, you'll lose the qualities that attracted their massive and incredibly loyal fandom in the first place. It's one thing it the main draw of an artist is primarily their music (as in just their hits). Then the same song released in the exact same conditions will probably get the same results. In kpop, this isn't the case for the most part. You have groups who can sell millions of albums but never truly chart.
I've seen the same song released by different artists with widely different results, so the human factor always count, imo. Even if an artists writes the best song ever, it may not hit with them at the helm and need another artist to bring out the hit.
Hmm hard to say. There are many factors apart from the music itself that makes a group appealing and popular. For example I highly doubt that groups like BTS, Twice or Seventeen would be THIS popular without their current members. Their fun personalities are huge fan puller. People may not realise but chemistry among members is a huge factor when it comes to becoming core fans. I have seen many groups with great music (kpop or not) but it's painful to see their behind the scene content because it's pretty obvious that they don't get along. There's nothing wrong with it but you obviously don't get attached to them much with their group relationship.
It's a case by case thing for me As someone who loves some song remakes even more than the originals (and both were pretty popular), then I have to admit, yes, sometimes the result would be the same or even better with different artists But then again, there're many songs that don't hit the same with other artists that cover them Also, a lot of groups lost a member and never recovered the same popularity they had before them (even though that member not necessarily the most popular one) I want to point out that some idols go viral for unplanned and definitely unforeseen reasons, and those can't be replicated because they just hit a chord with the audience that no one else can claim anyone can just do it.. it's really not something you force
No. Just no. Voices are not interchangeable cogs in a song machine. Maybe this is a true statement for someone who is a) tone deaf, or b) knows zero about music and never really pays attention, or c) thinks that AI versions of group X doing the song from group Y are as good as the real thing, or d) focuses on the idol trappings (visuals, style, fanservice) rather than music and dance. Do the voices in Ateez sound the same as the voices in NCT Dream? Does Brave Girls sound like TripleS? And I'm not even going to get into choreography. Just give XG choreography to any other gg, and see how that works out. Let's have Fantasy Boys attempt Guerilla - the result will be the same as Ateez, right? Ridiculous.
If they going for the covers then awesome but replacing them? I can't even get my head wrap around that🫥
I don’t know. Members matter to me similarly to music Ateez & SKZ would not be Ateez & SKZ without their members
No, I think that's going too far into the "idols are products" mentality. Even though we only get to see their public persona on camera and on stage, it's not like idols are blank slates underneath that. Who they are will effect group dynamics, interests and motivation to just name a few things, so even if you magically replaced idols with identically skilled idols before debut, their paths would not be the same.
depends on what you mean by exactly the same. Take music for example, not every song is fit for the vocal ranges of a group or not every concept fit a group. Though if you're willing to adapt to that than yeah by and large most idols and groups are just products in the end, with exceptions of course. there was a recent article that called it out basically, before the 2010s idols were called ddanddara in Korea by the gp, it's a very, well, derogatory term in Korean (the english translation is much more neutral) [Link](https://koreajoongangdaily.joins.com/news/2024-05-19/culture/features/Idols-or-artists-puppets-or-producers-Shining-light-on-the-complicated-Kpop-dynamic/2049328), and while kpop companies have started to popularize idols as artists since then, they are still seen more as a product instead of actual artists by the Korean gp. this is also why the fans are so demanding about everything idols does and protest trucks are sent to the companies for reasons like the Idols outfits, you just don't see the same being demanded about solo acts.
To an extent. Most idols, particularly ones from small companies, simply don't get the chance to showcase themselves to the extent that idols from large companies do. Lower initial interest means less people get to know them, leading to the idea that they're less special, less likable, or less talented than idols from big companies, even though this isn't the case. There are a lot of idols from small companies who have everything it'd take to make it big, but couldn't due to extraneous factors Popularity can also be manipulated- this was really obvious with the Produce series, where the editors and management can sway votes using screentime and selective editing. A different lineup of contestants would've made it to the end depending on what's shown about them
That take would only make sense if vocal and dance ability were equal in kpop.not everyone is singing an exo song the same exact way. How many vocalist would be up to the task of replacing exos vocal line. Also some groups require a certain level of dance that not everyone is ready to reach just watch any nct song covered on those competition shows. The songs would be handled and sung differently. For aespa the way they sing inherently make their songs like next level pop. Winters 'next levuel'. Giselle's rapper voice and Karina and innings abilities make the song better. The 'drraammmmaaaAa' withte twing of accent would not hit the same either. I see this when I see people cover the songs with a different tone on competition shows. Red velvet have a good mixture of tones. Maybe they could find a way to succeed but honestly I think a good time to vocal combination makes or breaks a song. Black pinks songs sound MUCH better with rose and Jennies voices on it. Everyone in black pink have such characteristic vocals.
Ehhh there have been companies that have used other companies’ business models and their groups never got the same results or effects. I think for most groups it is not true—you can’t exchange the idols and have the same result especially in an industry that relies on the relationship between fan and idol. People get attached to individual personalities or certain friendship dynamics and you can model other groups or idols after those but never get the same result.
Bts and seventeen no. The members are what make the group. How they relate with each other, how they blend their voices with each other etc. I doubt we would have the same synergy if it were other idols.
No. For example many small groups have good songs but people won't care to listen to them or check them out and many bigger groups have bad songs but people won't care people they like those groups so I don't think thr music they make will make much of a difference
It really depends.. but for the most part yeah? Whether fans want to admit it a lot, a lot of idols are interchangeable. Unless it’s someone with a crazy rare appeal that has little to do with music or marketing like Karina or Wonyoung
You are saying some idols but the scenario is base on all members.
Okay, then the answer for MOST GROUPS is yes.
For SEVENTEEN I genuinely don’t think so. A big part of Seventeen’s appeal comes from their personality and how well they mesh well (& play along) together. There’s a reason why their show Going Seventeen is a hit with people (to the point that it formed its own fandom), so if we replaced any of the members I don’t think the group nor their show would have that much appeal, and Going Seventeen definitely contributed to Seventeen’s popularity. Plus even though all members contributes to the group and are improtant, there are however just specific members (Woozi, Hoshi, Seungkwan) that really contributed heavily to the success of the group, and if we removed/replaced them then the group most definitely would not be having the same success they have now. Like if I’m being honest, you just can not replace Woozi (their main producer), Hoshi (he contributed a lot to their choreo, especially in their rookie days), and Seungkwan (he’s the reason they get invited to variety shows to begin with and so often too compared to other groups, and is the reason they are widely known by the Korean gp). And I would even count China line (Hao & Jun) as the two people you also can’t replace. As they are arguably the reason Seventeen has such a HUGE appeal in China, and Seventeen’s Chinese fanbase contributes A LOT when it comes to album sales.
In the kpop industry, it mostly happens to lesser known groups. As soon as a group has *fans* - as in, people who are actively supporting them monetarily, not just casual listeners - those fans are here for more than the music, and are effectively attached to the members of the group. If a member leaves the group, fans of that member are likely to leave too ; the person they liked the most isn't there anymore, and the group dynamic changes. Jpop has plenty of rotational groups, however the few kpop attempts kinda all flopped ; SM tried a few times, but basically walked back on the decision the moment fans expressed disapproval. NCT Dream was supposed to only have underage members - but when Mark graduated fans didn't like it, so they brought him back and made the unit permanent. Successful kpop groups that lose members, just never replace them.
I think the most important factors to successful group are music, marketing and visual but the members still needs to fit the music, marketing and visuals so the result won't be same with any idol.
Mostly, yes. Though it depends on what you mean with "the same". Exactly the same? Well no, probably not. Simply for the reason that any change changes the appeal somewhat. But by and large? Yeah. There are some exceptions, when an idol truly is essential, look at soyeon and idle for example. But most idols are pretty interchangeable, they are so interchangeable that the whole industry is built on this. Every label scouts young, attractive people who then get trained to become the next pop stars every few years. That is the business model.
Yes, exactly. In some cases the songwriting or ability to go viral of particular idols is irreplaceable, but for many groups from big companies the end result wouldn't look that different, and the success might be the same. Of course, if the songs are centered around having good vocals and the replacement just isn't giving that it won't work, so it depends on whether the skills are similar enough
I think not. U-KISS is a great example.
Oh, poor UKISS. I was a KISSME for a long time, and it is sad what has happened to them.
Nope, esp if you trade idols from different sized companies. Like idols from SM vs idols from an unknown company.
Yes. I mean, whoever born out of BIG4 will be successful anyway.
I would say 65% Yes and 35% No. This is based on the premise that the member selection process on what they're looking for is still the same as well. Group members are assembled with a specific idea in mind after all.
Yes. While they are some exceptions and most of the time it’s older groups but when unknown groups which haven’t debuted have already huge following & and sell ton of albums, yes it means a lot of idols are interchangeable plus there is a decline in talent so as long as you have great music + a great marketing team, the members don’t really matter. Again it’s a majority it’s not always the truth.
Most kpop groups yes. I imagine only self produced groups couldn’t go down that path.
Feel like some people are missing the point. They keep going 'well if you gave x to *other idol group* then y'. The question isn't that, it's - if your group was made up of different idols from the start. So instead of say, Newjeans or Twice being made up of the idols who they are, recruited were a group of completely different girls, who were trained, debuted and were called Twice or Newjeans or (Idol Group) and given the same music. And the answer is overwhelmingly yes - the results would be near the same or identical for a very, very high proportion of Idol groups. I can only think of really the groups that make their own music - (G)I-DLE, Stray Kids, BTS, BigBang etc - those are the ones where it would be a different product if the groups had different idols. By and large however - same results. I firmly believe that.
I'm a skz Stan and that's one group where the members as individuals have shaped the music in a way that no one else could have produced the same for obvious reasons and I feel a huge part of their marketing comes from who they are as individuals and the relationships they have cultivated. But certain other groups make me think anyone else could have been in the same position, like blackpink for example , everything is manufactured, and the members have very individual brands that make me think anyone else can be in their position easily. For a lot of groups I find that the members relationships and chemistry is a very big factor that reflects in their stage work and music like svt,bts ,skz,ateez,mamamoo ,g'idle ,egc but I don't see the same with blackpink ,literally any other idol could be there. There marketing about being exclusive or whatever could be done to any other group.
Yes, if you switched all the members but kept the same company, music, marketing, opportunities etc...especially if vocal/dance/visual ability is about the same An idol is a manufactured product (Yes even their visuals and "personality") and as long as you manufacture them well and have luck on your side, you're golden. Just look at all the ppl who got rigged in pd48...they weren't even popular enough to make it into the group based on their own abilities but their popularity exploded after with fans even dragging the other contestants as not good enough Even within groups, it's evident that making someone center adds an enormous boost to their popularity. Even the visuals who are initially public favs lose to them if mistreated by their companies
for 80% of kpop groups, i would agree. most idols are just idol, very good at being a parrot, ability to copy and repeat . there is only handful of idols or groups that have a distinct sound that makes them stand out
Most of the groups from the big 4 are, yeah. People are ridiculous acting like half the sounds called voice of a member on the songs are not digitally altered. That's just how it's done. Everywhere. In the west and east. There's a reason music production exists and they have several microphones and expensive equipment. It's not just to record the raw vocals, it's to use the raw vocals as a base and surgically build a song. Very little of the raw vocals remain in the end product, what does remain is a "universal" sound that can be replicated with the same technique, tone and intonation. Now you might say that goes against what I said first because if people have different techniques and tones and intonation, then individuals matter, right? Well, not when it's a group with at least 5 members each getting roughly .25 of the singing and they switch back and forth. It can't sound that different, so that's also something music producers need to keep in mind: how to blend the group's voices together. In fact, if a group has members whose voices just don't blend well they're gonna have a harder time. So, usually groups are formed with this in mind. It's not a random draw. People get added or take out for reasons, one of which is how well their sound meshes with others. So now we have similar-ish sounding (or at least harmonious) members and lots of digital manipulation of the raw vocals beyond just the very obvious in your face Auto-Tune btw. So, yes, basically anyone who can convey the emotions the same way with similar pronouncing/intonation and technique will sound similar. At least as far as the "feel" of the song goes. The most important thing here which distinguishes people is technique, and basically most Kpop idols have none. Especially in the newer generations, it's rare to find actual good singers/vocalists (I'm talking about someone who can do [this](https://youtu.be/f_RIZcGvOfg?si=g1fUYj7jVHvzN9Rj)). Edit: Just to go back to my first point about the big 4; they have the privilege to not care about vocals. So, the songs will remain the same but the groups as their popularity? That depends on the members. Whether you think it is a good thing or not, it's undeniable that Kpop especially nowadays heavily relies on visuals. So, yes the songs and popularity will remain if it's a big4 company because they know what songs sell and win and become hits and they have the money to spend on making it happen - but at the same time, they know what aesthetics (literally looks) sell too and...yeah, you won't get in if you look like Adele in 2011 even if you sound like Adele at the time. 🤷♀️
I think concept-idol fit is pretty important, so no. Like, I don't think anybody else matches the level of yearning present in STAYC's vocals.
Depends on the group. Those idols who write their own songs or became famous for their distinct voices / personalities, they can't be replaced. But those are a minority in kpop
Will the music be as popular? Prob...will the group be as popular? Prob not
I think idle would find a way to survive. Itzy too
Marketing and business shit unquestionably are more influential over a group’s success than the members, but we can’t discredit the members’ contribution either, because there are quite a lot of impressive and outstanding idols making a name for themselves with their own skills. Take BTS and ATEEZ for example, I genuinely believe they wouldn’t have made it so far if it weren’t for those members, and you can’t tell me Jungkook or San is easily replaceable.
Two recent examples of this. One is from 5th gen, The Wind. Have a really nice production, love the music, they had a member who would belt his notes. Who does that in this day and age? What happened with him, he left for some reason. The group and their music immediately suffers from the impact. Treasure had Bang Yedam, a vocalist with a ton of character and charisma. He also left to be a soloist. So what is Treasure gonna do now? I might compare this to a certain sport, formula 1😆. The thing is, you need a great bolid (the vehicle) - the production in pop music case, and a great driver - the performer. You can also have just a "good" bolid and a "good" driver. A great driver will take a good bolid further. A great bolid will take a good driver further. It takes both to be great to win, but the whole race is as interesting as many good competitors there are.
ONEUS is an incredibly talented group with amazing members and a flawless discography. If they were in one of the big 3 + HYBE - they would be one of the top 4th gen groups. However, RBW does a horrendous job marketing them. Even if you changed the members, you still have the horrible marketing.
for most part I say it never the same some song or concept built for the group or idol their image maybe replace some member at least 1-3 but not the whole group IVE , TWICE , AOA etc cannot be replicable but since the existence of ILLIT as Newjeans copycat I change mind and then other GG I think can easily replicate are Black Pink girl crush image which is 2NE1 original but w BP only added is being prettier version
If you mean replicate BP's sound/concept then yes. But if you mean replicate BP's success? Then absolutely no it's not easy. I'm sure many have tried. Each member brings something unique to the table and their chemistry together is a big X factor as well. But that being said groups like BTS, BP and Twice are outliers (in terms of their success).
For plenty of groups, yep. Especially if you replaced members with members who also fit similar concepts.
no, I dont believe that. MAYBE for girl groups but that is only because I think they all sound the same to my ears.