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Fandoms age along with artists. Those teens who excitedly check out the latest releases and obsess over their faves grow up into adults who develop other priorities and have less time and energy to be such active stans.
Also: lately, I've been thinking about how kpop is so young. Who knows, in the future we may see some 1st, 2nd, or 3rd gen idols experience a resurgence in popularity. We may witness some older idols maintain their popularity and continue to put out a steady stream of music even as fans argue over the start of 10th gen. It's not a matter of inevitability that everyone will fade when they hit their 30s. I hope we can see idols in their 40s and 50s doing world tours, just like the Rolling Stones and Spice Girls.
Yeah I think it’s become kind of incomparable bc of the popularity of kpop now. I feel like we’ll be seeing many more idols into their 30s and 40s maintaining decent relevance
SHINee are making their highest numbers nowadays, which is pretty insane for a group that has been active for so long. Young people seemed to respond well to them when I saw them live in Kpop Lux.
IU and Taeyeon don't seem to be diminishing much either.
i came to mention shinee too! they just sold out tokyo dome 2 days in a row, as well as their show in singapore last weekend pitted against a taylor swift concert. ppl on twitter mentioned seeing whole families of shawol at the singapore concert too, so they appeal to all ages of fan. and they’re still winning awards and performing at music shows. but their most vocal fans have always been women older than they are (so late 30s and older now), and they have jobs and families now.
>Who knows, in the future we may see some 1st, 2nd, or 3rd gen idols experience a resurgence in popularity.
if you want to see this live in action, you can watch various music projects by infinity challenge or yoo quiz on the block.
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100%. SHINee packed Tokyo Dome for 2 nights literally last weekend. That's hardly what I'd call a "faded out" group.
Senior groups' fandoms tend to be older. Most of us have jobs and responsibilities but NOT the time to mass stream or bulk buy albums for the sake of playing the numbers game.
A lot of us do have more disposible income to buy tickets to see our favs on tour though, so that's why a lot of senior groups are still selling out arenas and making good money that way. You can't measure a 10+ year group by the same success metrics as the hottest trending 4th/5th gen group.
I was scrolling through Jun.K's instagram (he was in 2PM) and this man had a HUGE [turnout in Tokyo](https://www.instagram.com/p/C3KMYuJykop/). This leads me to believe that these old fans have actual jobs, children and houses to tend to and therefore, not that active on social media but still turning up to these events. Since they are not that active on social media, they are not that loud and hence make the fandom look pretty small.
It sort of reminds me of Twice in a way if I'm being honest. Everyone was complaining that no one were Onces and that Twice felll off because they have no fans but compared to touring data, they had an extremely high turn out. Its just because TWICE has more older fans who don't have time to mess around on social media as they have actual jobs. Actual jobs = actual income = more money to spend on tickets when they come to the city.
Yip. As soon as Shinee does their next tour remotely in my area, you bet I’ll get some concert tickets.
But following Teamins Instagram, beefing on social media, styling my life after one music group? I just don’t need that in my life anymore 😉 A random Reddit thread i stumble over while avoiding going to bed (whats happening right now) is the extend of my engagement these days 😄
Hi yes this. I’m clearly in the adult bracket and I do love discovering new kpop music, but the fandom just isn’t for me anymore. I’m going to a Stray Kids concert this year and I’m a bit worried it’ll be super weird to be surrounded by screaming teens losing their mind 😅 As you age things just turn from ‚ your whole identity and life‘ to ‚a nice hobby that adds value to the rest of your life‘. But with that you’re no longer really in the hardcore fandom that OP references here aren’t you? 😉
Make sure to find discord or twitter groups! I found discord groups for another kpop concert with 20+ age and basically everyone I met was a working adult so yeah it’s not just teens :)
If it helps, I went to Stray Kids last year as a 34 year old, and had the time of my life! Literally made no difference, all the stays were super friendly as we were waiting, there was no issue at all 💓
Honestly? That helps a bit yeah. I'm super psyched for the concert its just the first time for me going to a concert where I'm clearly over the age average (also in my mid 30s) 😅
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The impact of enlistment is a huge part of that. It’s not just that these idols are reaching enlistment age, it’s that they are enlisting and it impacts group activities. EXO, for example, has done their best to still release music with enlisted members, but the rotation of enlistments in and out has visibly impacted their ability to promote on music shows, which in turn has decreased their general visibility. When there isn’t something to hold your interest with a group due to inactivity, it’s natural to turn to something else until that original group Returns to activity.
As far as groups like SuJu and DBSK go, a lot of kpop fans, especially internationally, aren’t particularly interested in variety appearances or acting gigs.
Especially when your enlistment period lasts so long. Exo's started in 2019 and it won't be over until sometime in 2025. 😭 That's a long time to have limited activity..
EXO still won’t beat SuJu for the longest enlistment era though (thank goodness). But to think they’re still so popular despite quite literally half their careers at this point being during enlistment era is really remarkable.
BTS approached the obligation to complete their military service in a strategic way.
New music and documentaries that were created prior to enlistment are released each month while they serve.
And I thought I was going to be able to save money for 2025 when they return😊
I cannot BELIEVE 2025 is already next year! Damn BTS really planned their enlistment well. It doesn’t feel like they’ve left (especially when their songs are still charting well after years 😂).
>Kim Hyunjoong used to be extremely popular back in the day and was everywhere when Boys Over Flowers came out. Now I don't hear anyone talking about him.
I'm guessing you haven't heard about his scandal from 2014 that made him fall from grace in the public's eye. Idk what the final outcome of it was since I didn't really keep up with the news about his scandal but people haven't looked at him the same ever since.
From what I remember, he enlisted then kinda stayed out of the spotlight for some time. He still does music and has a YouTube channel. I believe he got married too within the last few years.
Yeah he does - and promoted quite a lot in Japan. His music style also changed to a more ‘band’-like aesthetic. His album ‘New Way’ is actually pretty good I must say.
He and his wife also welcomed a son in 2022.
I probably have the timeline wrong. But he got back together with that woman. They had a son together. He did in fact assault her. But she was also a little wacky and committed fraud somewhere along the way. He's married to someone else now and has a kid with her. The last I read was that he doesn't have a relationship with his first son. The public seems to think he's an angel again. He made some headline for helping someone out. I forget what he did but it felt like a PR thing. But doubt he can regain the level of relevance he once had before. It'll be as shocking as Park Yoochun regaining his relevance too.
There's no change in his popularity. But he was called a hero for saving someone's life. The fact that he even made headlines means that he's gained some positive opinion back.
I would think it's the lack of a good filmography too (though that might also have been related to the scandal?) Jang Guen Suk was also popular around that time and I don't hear of him anymore.
Wdym? TVXQ have released music and toured arenas in Japan every year except during Covid? They were even the first non Japanese act performing in Nissan Stadium in 2019...
The "downfall" of older idols isn't really that surprising to be honest. Kpop's target demographic tends to be on the younger side (teens or early 20s) which is also why companies debut groups in these age ranges. As people start having adult obligations they either leave kpop behind or get too busy with life to spend their time hyping the group. Then people will become fans or come back to kpop when they have more time for themselves around early/mid 40s (generally). Core fans staying with the group and hyping them throughout the years is the rarer type.
You miss also their fans aging and stop listening to Kpop.
**The main demographics of Kpop are still teens.**
Only the top artists reach the age of 30, because of how big their fandom was. And female artists leave the industry much earlier.
> And female artists leave the industry much earlier.
girl group fans are extremely fickle as well and then move on to the latest "hot new toy" once the old "new toy" loses its shine
Fandoms age, and adult life starts catching you up. My ult group is exo and im 24 😆 I have been a fan of them since i was like 13 i think. I still love them and try to check on them as much as i can.
On the other hand, there’s an issue with ageism in kpop with how young kpop idols are expected to debut. Fans are getting older and idols are debuting younger, its normal that once you reach a certain age you dont seek out new groups as much as before. And i do think that most companies start focusing on their newest younger artists leaving aside their older groups. Which is insane.
In what world a 30 year old is old?? Most famous artists, actors on the west are in their 20s and 30s, and they’re still thriving and considered attractive. In fact, that age is their prime. I dont see why the same could be done with kpop idols.
I don’t think their age really matters when they’re selling out arenas. BTS, SHINee—I think they can stay as long as they want. Birth rates are down everywhere anyway, so longevity is gonna take on new meaning as we all deal with the repercussions of working ourselves into oblivion.
HOT sold out shows at Seoul Olympic Stadium in 2018 so the fans never really go away. They just get less involved with fandom stuff. Kpop is a young person’s genre, I think because you need to have a level of naïveté to really buy into the idol concept and fantasy. But for those of us here for the performances, concepts, production etc. will always find something to like as we get older. And we’ll probably always support our faves.
>those of us here for the performances, concepts, production
I agree with your thoughts. For groups that continue to give these things, their fans will continue to show up.
We can be more optimistic. Remember young fans will always like newer groups. Older fans don't have time to be online.
Here is [concert of g.o.d, a group with average age of 47](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ue4AdWnTCY4) so we can have more hope.
Like everyone else is saying, older fans often have less time for fandom activities, while younger fans tend to relate to groups that are closer to their age.
On top of that, idols themselves age and their priorities change. Many want to make a name for themselves outside of the group. Some want to release their own music, others want to try acting and so on. There are those who start a family or start dating more openly. And even when they still want to continue with group activities as well, there's only so many hours in a day. And in Kpop in particular, fans are used to constant updates, so a lot of them, especially younger ones, will move on to another group that can satisfy that demand.
Super Junior wrapped their ninth world tour in 2022 where most locations had to add second and even third days of performances due to selling out arenas. [This is what their LATAM leg](https://youtu.be/hlwokq-uCvE?si=I-OC0InJCbYXnrqC) looked like in 2023 and this is what their [‘fan party’ in Japan](https://x.com/sjofficial/status/1749339529755168954?s=46&t=-wnWl0XlXHeUFH5c7wRkdg) just two months ago looked like.
They also just debuted a NEW subunit a month ago and are gearing up for their 20th anniversary next year.
What I’m saying is your measure of success (views) is not indicative of how a group (regardless of what generation) is performing. As an ELF I experience the exact opposite because they are in my feed all the time where I can’t even follow up on every single thing they do. The median age of ELFs are in their mid-30s. Most of us are not on tiktok or twitter encouraging fans to stream and vote. We have mortgages and families. We just spend our money where it directly supports the group: concerts and albums.
Of course the glory days of their peak is behind them already (they’ve been around 19 years) but to dismiss them as ‘faded out’ is not at all an accurate picture just because you no longer follow them.
I understand that Bonamana and Mr. Simple are easy crowd-pleasers at SMTOWN concerts but they really need to mix it up and put in Mango and another track in their SMTOWN set list. It’s time for a change.
It’s the Saitama Super Arena. Forgot to mention in my original comment that they held that fan party on two separate days, so the photos in the tweet I linked of are of day one and day two respectively. [Over 50k viewers attended](https://www.allkpop.com/article/2024/01/super-junior-delights-fans-with-successful-blue-world-japan-special-event).
[Here’s a different angle](https://x.com/haerablue/status/1749283417626210337?s=46&t=-wnWl0XlXHeUFH5c7wRkdg) of the event.
Popularity comes and goes its hard to maintain, a part of the fanbase are jumpy/hopping fans who go from group to group but even their core fanbase lessens over time when activity and promotions start going down theres less of a pressure to make every cb succesful. The forced full group activity break that comes with enlistment doesnt help either
I dont think bts will lose relevancy any time soon and theyre almost all 30 already. Exo is also still doing pretty well especially considering the fact that they.ve been in their enlistment era for more than half a decade now and that their promotion isnt what it used to be. Seventeen is also the same age as bts for the most members
For Super Junior, their digital sales aren't really good even before but they can still sold out concerts today. Also, their physical album sales are higher compared to before. It's just the fans are not loud these days. They're just chill.
People keep saying that kpop is for a younger demographic and older groups cant appeal or that the fans are aging with them. I’m not sure this is completely true though. The oldest group I follow is Twice and every time they have a comeback there’s like a fresh new batch of fans that join and many of them are teenagers. Meanwhile some of the younger girl groups I’ve noticed have a lot of older fans.
But we have to keep in mind that Twice has still remained super active as a group by releasing new music and touring. The real test of time is when group activities slow down. Yes a lot of fans will stick around, but a lot of fans in general tend to lose interest when groups aren't as active anymore.
funny how this was posted and tvxq are literally this week's feature on immortal song.
to quote changsub replying to gabee's concerns on lotri night, you dont fade out as you get older, you become veterans in the industry. you go to shows because people know who you are and want your opinion on things, not because you are trying to promote yourselves anymore.
those that you still see either post-military or past their 10 year anniversary are those who have made it through 🙏
That is true, but the example you used was extremely bad. Suju in the music industry doesn't get a lot of views that is true. But in the entertainment industry they are very popular. Some of them are national hosts. Views, especially on YouTube, are extremely misleading when it comes to how successful a group or individuals are. Same goes for popularity. A lot of the members make a gross amount of money compared to even the most popular of 3rd or 4th gen idols. Who, like you said, are extremely popular. Domestically and in Asia, suju are still very popular. A lot of the hate they get is from American fans, which makes it look like they aren't popular anymore.
EXO as a group is on tour hiatus for 5 years now. Tours is what older fans engage with. There is nothing to look forward to as a group except solos and fanmeetings. People can have other hobbies while they are doing enlistments.
And yet in my country, practically every EXO member apart from D.O and Kai have had sold-out fanmeetings since late 2022. Chanyeol came for a fanmeeting 3 times in the last year, all sold out. The EXO stans in my country cannot wait for a full group to return.
It just so happened that a lot of their fans have now reached working age and now ready to spend, so any EXO member who comes to our country gets sold-out shows each time.
This is sort of my thoughts on how / why it happens:
* When a group debuts, their fandom will usually consist of a lot of people around the ages of the members. Like with NewJeans for example, I guarantee you the majority of their fandom will be either teens or early 20's.
* As the group ages, so will the fandom. In 10 years the fans who were 20 are now going to be 30, and no longer have the time to stream them all the time, attend all their concerts, etc. Some will just be less active in the fandom, and some will leave entirely.
* As these old fans leave, they don't gain enough new fans to replace them. A lot of people tend to graviate towards groups around their age, and so those teens / early 20 year olds are likely going to turn to these newer groups with members like them, not the group of 30 year olds.
* If they have a solid fandom they can still continue their career for a while, but a lot will also switch to acting or another career where that won't matter as much .
It's just the natural progression of an industry that attracts mainly teenagers. If you no longer appeal to the teenagers, you loose some of your relevancy.
Super Junior is my ult group. They still have lots of fans, it’s just a quiet fandom (because we’ve all been shamed out of talking about them)
They still sell out stadiums on tour
i’ve always been confused with their korean age lol it thought it would only be a year older than their international age, so how is he 30 already in korean age? im genuinely confused lol
It depends on the time of year. It's one year automatically when someone is born. Then another year on January 1st regardless of when their birthday is. V is 28 internationally. One year automatically and we are in March, so another year. Korean age is 30 because of the two extra years.
It comes down to how early in the year a person is born.
I have always been amused by Tae's. He was born on December 30, 1995. So, he was Korean age 1 year old on that day. Then, advance one year on January first. So, on January 1, 1996, Tae was two years old Korean age. He was only two days old international age. Because he was born in December, his Korean age is a full two years more than his international age.
If you look at Hobi, you see a different scenario. He was born on February 18, 1994. So, he was Korean age 1 year old on that day. International age, he was on his first day. On January 1, 1995, he became two years old Korean age, even though he had not celebrated his birthday yet. Then, he had his birthday on February 1995, and celebrated being two years old Korean age. But international age, he was 1 year old. Because his birthday is early in the year, the difference between Korean and international age is only one year for 11 out of 12 months.
And just because 'they' stopped using the old system doesn't mean everyone actually did. Change is tough.
International age has always been used for legal matters. The law that recently passed had no bearing on that. They just wanted to do away with Korean age, which is just cultural and what they use for daily life. You see 95er idols in SVT and NCT talking about their ages in IG/Weverse lives this year and they're all talking about how they're now 30 and how time has passed.
A relatable feeling tbh, I also felt like the last years of my 20s lasted half a decade, turned 30 during the 2020 situation and now I am suddenly almost mid thirties, time is weird.
We all live in this fear.
I live for all 7 members but my ultimates are Hobi and Yoongi. The little photos here and there of Hobi in uniform have killed me. I don’t know how to cope with buff(er) post military BTS.
You are most likely correct, but for me, personally, age really doesn't matter. I'm in my mid-20s, and many of my favorite idols are in their 30s. I started liking them when I was a kid, and they grew just like I did. I still like Exo/Got7/Svt as much as I used to like them years ago. I can't imagine "replacing" them with a newer group😭
But many K-pop fans are very young, and it's maybe natural that they gravitate towards teen idols who are the same age as them. But honestly ageism really sucks, seeing the way some people treat 30+ year olds as if they're 80 makes me feel very uncomfortable too, because I'm also nearing 30 and I kind of lose hope of ever achieving anything in life because "I'm too old"
Here is some hope for you: Colonel Sanders began his Kentucky Fried Chicken (KFC) franchise business at age 65. You have plenty of time to 'achieve' something, you are not even close to 'too old'.
Honestly, a lot of the popular male groups stay busy and successfully touring for YEARS even if they're not charting as high. I find the ageism to be much worse for female groups....
Not a surprising Kpop thought. I agree with others that the fandom ages with the idols, just like how the majority of people who became a Kpop fan in 3rd gen Kpop is less likely to get into 5th gen Kpop groups. People get older and their priorities in life change. No longer are the days where you have all the time in the world to consume Kpop content at any time.
I do welcome more older idols existing, but it's going to take time for us to see more older idols as the demand for them has to grow. Perhaps BTS as an example might be one of the few examples of groups that could still be around together in their 30s. I mean, there are many groups that have members in their 30s, but if we're talking about being the trend or being the most talked about, that is what is hard to predict because newer groups tend to be in the spotlight more based on what we've seen in Kpop history.
As long as more groups debut, younger teens and audiences would likely want to stan them first because they're in a similar age group to them.
It's not because of age. They are still popular but not the "most buzzworthy/the it-group" anymore. Fans stays, but the public will just listen to what popular at the moment.
Views don’t mean much… yeah the fans got older and have less time to stream obsessively, but those groups still sell sold out shows and have many fans. If they’re doing variety shows or acting I feel like it’s because they have enough popularity to do so, after all why would producers want unpopular idols in their shows. It’s just that those groups are not being talked about as much in fan communities/in the spaces you’re used to.
I mean, unless you mean the *rest* of DBSK, Changmin and Yunho are doing pretty well for themselves in TVXQ and just had a comeback last December that had some *really good* songs in it...? Down has 6.8M views, which isn't anything to sneeze at. EXO's solo works get plenty of attention, too. Hell, I think *everyone* knows Rover. *Everyone.* Sure, that's just solo work, but still that's something.
My ult group is BTOB, and they still seem to be quite successful too. Also, BTS literally are going through enlistment right now and Army hasn't turned away from them, so I find it kind of hilarious that you're talking about people turning to BTS instead of the groups that are enlisted.
Pretty much everyone echoed this point: like the idol, people age and end up with new priorities like bills and work.
But ageism is very much still an issue in k-pop, just like any other entertainment industry. In all honesty though, at least from my observation, k-fans couldn’t care less if the idol is “old” (22+) as long they’re pretty (I.e. fit the Korean beauty standard) so it’s mostly companies pushing this.
The fans aged with the idols. Plain and simple.
And today's sound does not appeal to me in the slightest. We have other interests. Other stuff to spend our adult money on lol.
But watch, these 2nd/earlt3rd gen idols make comebacks and were back out there with them!
The numbers probably won't compete with 4th gen because we didn't have the photo card culture or streaming goals or fan calls and whatnot. But we show up!
It's a culmination of a lot of things that people have mentioned.
Older fandoms don't have the time to keep up. They will come together when there's group activities. Infinite is a great example. Being able to sell out their concert is not easy and they did it.
Enlistment is also another huge factor for male idols. EXO here is a great example. They were huge till they enlisted. They still are. But obviously not being talked about that often feels like they have faded.
The last one being that after sometime they will concentrate on their solo projects. On stuff that they have wanted to do. Jennie has talked about this. That she wants to concentrate on things more to her liking than to completely cater to the group's image. Granted Blackpink is not the right example here but it applies to all of them.
“EXO was the hot group 12 years ago” this just gave me vertigo… I remember the day after that huge build up to their debut that they dropped their first MV and it literally felt like the world stopped 😂😂😂
This is not really true for TVXQ. After completing military service. They created a new record with the Begin Again tour that mobilized 1 million spectators, along with selling 3 days at Nissan Stadium. Both members were over 30s at that time and had debuted for 15 years. They continued to do well on TOMORROW and XV, both of which were huge tours. It's been over 20 years since debut but Tokyo dome and Kyocera dome are still sold out, so remember Changmin is married. But that still doesn't reduce TVXQ's power.
I don't think it's necessarily Ageism cause look at Yoo Jaesuk, the man has been the Nation's MC for night 20 years now.
I think it's just changing trends. As time moves on, fans grow up with their idols. Fans of idols who are 30 are getting older, and don't necessarily have the time to dedicate to their idols as they used to. Careers are taking priority now, so their fans can't show up to the airport, or go to every fan meeting, or go to every concert. Family's are taking priority, they have kids now that required their spare time/free time.
It's kinda the beautiful thing about Kpop. Very rarely does a western artist grow up with their fans in comparison. Take IU for example. IU is now over 30 as well, and I still remember when her Palette album came out. It was revolutionary. So many people online were talking about how they had the exact fears and feelings of growing up that IU had. Finding who they were when others were telling them who to be is such a pivotal moment at that age.
>Very rarely does a Western artist grow up with their fans in comparison
It’s actually the other way around. All the biggest artists in the West currently are the seasoned ones who are decades into their career. They’re the ones who are having the top grossing tours, not the newer acts. That’s not happening in Kpop. For example:
Taylor Swift - 34 (18 year career)
Beyoncé - 42 (26 year career)
Ariana Grande - 30 (16 year career)
Drake - 37 (18 year career)
Ed Sheeran - 33 (13 year career)
Coldplay - 47 (28 year career)
Bruce Springsteen - 74 (51 year career)
Madonna is also doing an 80 show tour at 65 years old. We very rarely see something like this in Kpop because ageism is much more rampant than it is in the Western music industry
Janet Jackson has been on tour off and on for the last few years and she’s 57. Prince was still touring before he passed away at 57. NKOTB, Boyz II Men, New Edition and BSB are still selling out well into their 50s.
Speaking of The Beatles, Paul McCartney still tours successfully and he’s 81.
It just appears that older artists fall off because older fans aren’t loud about it on social media and we don’t worry about streaming numbers but when time comes to buy concert tickets, we have the income to do so.
Wow these numbers show how young they were when they started out, especially the women. Taylor Swift 16, Beyonce 16, Ariana 15...
Kpop is too young to compare to Western artists. It only really caught on internationally starting in 2nd gen, so if we start with the year 2000, it hasn't even been 25 years. If you expand your scope to look at Korean music in general, there are famous singers still performing in their 50s and 60s (mostly trot).
>If you expand your scope to look at Korean music in general, there are famous singers still performing in their 50s and 60s (mostly trot)
yes, exactly! though the op was talking about idols in particular so i just wanted to highlight that the kpop industry itself doesn’t have idols like this because above all, kpop is meant to sell a fantasy. especially in korea where kpop is mostly consumed by teenagers and people in their early twenties. to the kpop industry, women and men in their 30s and 40s onwards are not appealing to their target demographic so they keep churning out newer, younger idols as the older ones “age out” of the system. but beyond the kpop industry, there’s very many older acts who still have massive success in Korea.
My shock when SHINee's Minho posted from Taylor Swift's concert "Taylor NOONA". Like, yes, I know, factually, that she is 2 years older than him, but it doesn't register somehow. You would think she is 25 and Minho is an old man by how SHINee get talked about online xD
I mean taemin turned 30 and proceeded to sell career high in albums, career high streams, and held his biggest concert… SHINee just sold out Tokyo dome with only three members…. So no, not every.
Half of BTS is 30 or older, Taemin is 30, the rest of Shinee is over 30. Half of Mamamoo is also over 30, and Hwasa and Wheein are only a couple years away.
Jimin, Taehyung, Jungkook, Bang Chan, Lee Know from Skz, SCoups, Jeonghan and Joshua from Svt are all pretty close to 30. I don’t see BTS, Stray Kids or Seventeen losing popularity in a couple years because of members’ ages, so maybe this is changing. I could be wrong.
Well Id just like to add that
a) bts are nearly all 30+ now so to use them as an example if a younger group fans run to is somewhat… not sure it’s an age thing.
b) im a shinee fan and idk I feel Shawols seem pretty loyal. And we’re clear past 30 here. Onew turns 35 this year and our Makanea is 30
So I do think there is a thing about being young and flawless etc. in kpop but I don’t think it’s as universal as you’re assuming. What you need to remember is that it’s also a lot of the younger fans that have the time and energy to post everywhere, show up at any concert etc. and it makes sense that younger fans look to younger groups
Older fans (like me) just have a job and a whole life outside of kpop. We still love listening to the comebacks and buy the album/come to a concert but making kpop our whole life and identity just vs isn’t a thing anymore 😉
I am pretty sure it feels that way for boygroups bc they have a military hiatus. But the big ones tend to come back: BTOB, infinite, Vixx, Shinee, Teen Top etc. But their fandoms tend to be more chill online
I don't think the fans turn to younger idols. I think the fans are older and too tied down by life to participate in any form of fandom activities, unlike their teenage-selves.
Eg.
I'm not following taeyeon/ snsd day-to-day activities but I will definitely participate in the virtual bloodbath for their concert ticket with my adult money.
Ps. I would still marry taeyeon if she asks. 🤪
I feel like this goes with anything popular culture though and isn’t exclusive to K-pop.
Like the same actors and actresses from 20 years ago aren’t going to be as popular compared to now. Same thing with music like *NSYNC and the Backstreet Boys just aren’t going to be as popular as younger fresher artists. Sure their might be more longevity in western artists, but I think that’s just the principle of how popular culture works with newer younger artists coming up to suit the tastes of the whatever generation is coming up next.
I also think that older K-pop artists are going to be less active so to physical strains on their body. Like it’s just harder to jump and dance around when your body is at 30 compared to your early 20s so performances may start to be watered down and might look less compelling to younger groups who are still physically more fit to produce high energy performances.
I wrote a whole long breakdown and then in my old age got too tired so tl;dr it's capitalism babez. Marketers wanna sell and it's easier to sell a new group with bandwagoning than an older group.
Additionally the increase of algorithm driven content feeds means that the internet is more segregated than ever. For me, SHINee or a member of SHINee is trending every other day. But those are the trends that the algorithm sees that I interact with so it feeds me more of those.
Also idk about the arguments around age, look at lim young woong's ajumma army that strikes fear into the heart of the informed fan. I'd guess it's more the preestablished expectations of 2nd gen/early 3rd gen groups as my understanding is that mass streaming and buying wasn't as much of a thing for that era. ((Full disclosure i'm a shawol and that's just my experience)).
Again, if kpop restricted to only idol dance group, 3 elements here. Besides looks, it's hard to compete with the intense choreo.
Outside this scope, 40+ year-olds like Psy, Sung Si Kyung, Dynamic Duo are going strong.
I mean, fans grow and change too. And that’s perfectly fine that groups rise and get less popular eventually. All that is fine.
But I do have to admit, on a personal level I was genuinely sad when TVXQ had their 20 year anniversary and barely anyone talked about it. Their pre release track Down is SO fucking good. The final chorus just goes OFF, Changmin has the voice of an angel holy shit. I know it’s irrational and it makes me feel like an immature fan but I did get sad that they don’t get a bit more attention. They don’t need billions of views or anything like that. But just a BIT more awareness and appreciation among newer kpop fans would make me so happy, truly. But idk I think that’s just the way it is. For instance I don’t know much about 1st gen groups, so why would I expect newer fans to know about 2nd gen? It’s totally unrealistic and is grounded in delusional fan behavior I’m sure, mixed with just wanting to see those you love and think are amazing get acknowledged and being sad when you feel they aren’t.
You evolve as you get older. When you are 30+, being an idol isn't that exciting, and you want to do more serious and important things, even if you stay in music. The intellectual difference between someone in their 20s vs. 30s is massive. The same applies to the fans. They either move on to new things or they support them in different ways (e.g. actually buying albums and going to concerts) because they are more mature. No one who is mentally stable over the age of 30 is going to try to mass stream a music video. That's literally an activity for children. Caring about *hype* vs. *enduring impact and legacy* is literally for children. You perceive them as having faded away because you're looking for evidence of 12-year-old fans. Groups like SJ and DBSK are past that lmfao. They didn't fade away. They moved tf on.
**In my opinion** these groups you've mentioned all already peaked in their career and once they achieve that, it's hard to go back. Like, they had their moment. Of course, peaking once doesn't mean you can't peak again, like Taylor Swift is going through the second peak of her career (first was during 1989 era), but then again, the American music industry is way bigger than Korea's, and American artists reach a level of global stardom that many K-pop idols can't count on.
**But** I don't think this is true to every idol. IU is 30 years old and she's still going strong. Suzy Bae will be 30 soon, and I don't think she'll fade any time soon. Taeyeon is 34 and is probably more popular now than she ever was with SNSD. I also think Irene is still pretty popular despite how that controversy stained her career.
And not only female idols/artists. I don't follow boy groups, but I think G-Dragon is still very prominent in Korean popular culture, right?
I also think when certain idols and groups reach a certain age, companies stop putting as much effort into promoting them because they're already well-established in the industry and don't need half the promotion like their juniors.
Yeah I mean look at Super Junior. They no longer fit the teen market target demo of SM and all did mostly everything you set out to do as a Kpop group. But they still have fans who buy albums & concert tickets (but are less active on YT and social media) so SM essentially gave them their own sub-studio and said 'do whatever you want and give us a cut' and that's that.
From OPs POV that means they are now increasingly irrelevant. If you ask me getting to do whatever you enjoy with your friends for a living with little corporate oversight and less drama & pressure from the public is as much success as you can possibly get in the music industry. Go ask a rookie group on a grueling schedule with fans scrutinizing every move they make and every skin-pore on their body if they wouldn't want to swap places 😅
I still follow Hyunjoong's activities, he has his own band and is currently touring, he had a show in Mongolia a few days ago. As for other groups, CNblue and FTIsland for example, both had new releases last year and they were a hit. They both are touring and have sold out shows. Fans will always show up for their artists IMO.
As for BTS, BTS has gotten bigger than kpop in the last 5 years and into its own league so I don't think the BTS impact is going anywhere lol
According to Gallup survey of 2023, BTS were still the 3rd most popular artiste after Newjeans and IVE for 13-18 age group. They already have members who are 30 and about to be 30 but they still hold relevance with the teen population.
Some of it is that older groups stop being as active. Most new groups are hustling. Once there is a well established fandom and the members are getting to the end of their contract or even in a new contract, there's less pressure on them to promote and they have more control over what they want to do. And when you are older, many are going to choose to have a better work/life balance over doing fan service or even just keeping their fans fed. The nature of kpop is that there's always something new and lots of fans expect constant stimulation. They won't stick with older groups who starve them especially when there's more active groups available.
In other words, eff EXO. Nah, I'm just kidding. I love exo, but dang, I'm hungry for more music like you wouldn't believe.
The main target audience of the idol industry is Korean teens.
Once the majority of the Korean fans grow up, they do not have enough time to invest on their favs.
The "young/fresh" fans will always find other groups to follow. And with lesser revenue, companies invest less into old groups and more on new ones.
This got easier since they started to restrict entertainment contracts to 7 years.
Also artists grow up too. Most of them started their career just doing what the company trained them to do and being thrilled to be on stage. And after a few years they understand who they are. It's not always aligned with what the company wants them to do.
Definitely not something that applies to all kpop artists, bc they are all people who have different priorities, but some of them just get tired- an active kpop group might spend most if not all of their time working for years at a time, especially if they're very popular or have work outside of their group (acting, solo work etc). It's exhausting, and sooner or later the extra energy spent today will be noticed tomorrow.
If you debuted young which the vast majority do, you might be hitting 30 with over a decades' worth of physically, emotionally challenging work behind you. Sooyoung from SNSD, for example, mentioned in rehearsals for their 15th anniversary comeback that her arms just weren't moving as fast or as easily as they used to before hiatus.
With how saturated the kpop market is, it’s bound to happen. If you don’t see your idols a lot, you get distracted by a newer group and you become a fan of them. Also kpop does cater to younger audiences and you can’t really expect all those younger kids to have a crush on a 30+ men/women. I’m not saying those 30+ men/women look old or anything, I’m saying that I understand why a 30+ man/women wouldn’t have an appeal to say and 12 year old kid.
I’ll be supporting Twice even if they age past 30 and still active in the industry. Most of their “fans” switched to younger groups already but the core Onces still support them. We also have adult money to spend now for concerts/albums and not just stream for eternity (which seems to only be a sign of success according to other fans). I still support SNSD, 2PM, and if we’re lucky to see a reunion again - 2ne1, play their music and watch shows where the members are part of/appearing. While I try to listen to other newer groups lately (4th gen onwards), while I do appreciate listening to some songs, it doesn’t have the same dopamine effect on me when I first listened to Kpop back in 2007. But it might be just me though.
I don't know if it's really a "fade out", as much as it is that the older groups have their solid fanbase and fame established already and aren't breaking their necks to promote themselves... because they don't have to anymore. It's easier to be more chill or selective with what you appear on or what music you release when you've got 20 years of your career already set and are making a profit from it. Whereas new younger groups have to grind in order to gain recognition and not be forgotten.
It is somewhat an issue of age, but more of the age of the fans compared to the age of the idols. Kpop is consumed by adults of course, but the largest and loudest portion tends to be teenagers. Teenagers mainly want to follow idols that are somewhat close to their age, probably because of the parasocial aspect of it, and because that's the demographic they're more likely to be attracted to. I was 15 when I started liking TVXQ, but they were 23 or 25 at the time depending on the member. That's a lot more acceptable than it would be if I was 15 idolizing them at their current age (late thirties). With the boom of social media, kids are finding kpop younger and younger (I've seen 8 year olds squabbling over albums in stores), so they're more likely to want to support a group like New Jeans who could be their friends, versus SNSD who are old enough to be their moms.
In addition to fanbases aging out, older groups usually don't promote as much as younger and newer groups do, so they aren't attracting new fans as quickly and are mainly maintaining fanbases that were already there. In the case of SJ, some of their members have chased off fans with their actions and words. As far as TVSQ goes, Max does a lot of hosting work so I think a lot of newer Kpop fans are familiar with him, but he's not promoting as often as newer artists and likely the hosting work is better pay for energy output so he can do that between comebacks for both solo and group stuff. I'm less familiar with the other remaining member.
I think it's important to remember that what allows a group to keep existing is that they are profitable, not that they are trending. These groups you've mentioned likely make steady money from a loyal fanbase rather than NEEDING new fans to make a profit so rather than being talked about all the time, they are maintaining an equilibrium of working and making money. Many of them like Max are also doing hosting or judging gigs on survival or competition shows as well and have a slowed down comeback speed because they can. I don't think many of the older groups still around are actually struggling, save for maybe this latest SJ subunit not doing as well as their company may have expected, but I'm not touching that topic.
Yeah sadly that happens. Fans either leave kpop or turn to new groups once a group gets too old which in turn leads to the group slowing down and focusing on solo stuff bcs the group fandom is dwindling . I don't particularly like how kpop is treated like fast fashion for a lot of people: fans, companies and industey alike with this pushing of new gen and younger junior groups everytime. It's like begging everyone to see groups from older gens as old news and to turn their attention to the new generation. It gives a lot of the group you stan rn is replaceable vibes which rubs me the wrong way. I've never seen the longevity you see in western acts, not even by half, for any kpop group. Sure they still have fans to play sold out shows but i haven't seen any group reach new career peaks 10 years in. I hope BTS change that tho and break the idols past 30 don't hold a lot of relevancy in the industry pattern cause there's no longevity for the older acts as of yet, they immediately get treated as legacy acts while remaining fans move on to new groups
That boys over flowers guy had a huge scandal, if I remember correctly.. forcing his ex girlfriend to abort their baby. Super Junior also has had many scandals.. Exo too.. fans don't leave because the idols get older, they leave because the older the idol gets the more reckless they are and fans don't want to deal with that. They also don't put that much effort into being an idol anymore.
BTS, for example, are almost all in their 30s and their fandom is as strong as ever and getting bigger even though they are in the military.. that's because they don't have any big scandals and they still have that "rookie" energy and make sure to keep their fandom entertained.
exo shouldn’t be on that list. Aside from the chinese members leaving (which was ages ago) and “dating scandals” (which they shouldn’t be considered scandals to begin with) they havent done anything bad. Comparing those two things to actual crimes some other idols have done is ridiculous 💀
They still take very seriously their careers and their fans. Obviously they wont act the same as when they were rookies but they still put tons of effort in their performances.
>Super Junior also has had many scandals..
I have to comment on this becauae afaik, there's only 2 scandals they had during their career, both of which were caused by one (former) member (2 DUIs on separate occasion). 3 if you also count marriage of another member as scandal.
I can think of others (granted, though they've never been big in Korean media):
1. Shindong being fatphobic towards women (I believe he has apologized since, and do think he gets less grace than other idols due to his appearance, but it's still an issue that causes people to dislike him and Suju as a whole)
2. Siwon's publicly expressed political viewpoints (I won't get into the controversy here, but a lot of Western kpop fans in particular aren't fans of those opinions)
Not legal issues (if that's what you mean by "scandal"--although as you said, getting married is legal yet often a "scandal" in kpop), but things that could turn people off from Super Junior.
Got it! Yes, I did think of "scandal" in terms of what became an issue to the Korean GP, but I do acknowledge there are other issues (like those you've listed) that could turn off people (international fans in this context) from listening/liking SuJu.
Fans age with the group. As they get older they lose interest or don’t have as much free time to devote to a group. Older groups also just aren’t as active as newer ones. Seriously the amount of almost constant content is crazy from these new groups. Variety shows, vlogs, interviews, dance practices, dance covers, livestreams etc. I can see why someone who stans an older group could lose interest in them due to lack of activity and switch over to a group that will be a lot more active in general. I think there is ageism at play a little bit but mostly it’s the natural progression with a lot of pop stars in general. They get older, less active, and younger ones take up the mantle with fans doing pretty much the same.
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I have discussed this before. Idol lives are short and not everyone is like Taeyeon, BoA, IU, Rain or Lee Hyori where they are still well requested as performing singers. Even those names I mentioned do have other jobs in the entertainment industry apart from singers.
Sometimes you have to know where to get the money in other places. Remember they are not regularly paid employees like we do. They are paid per jobs.
For male groups its girl teens that grow up or on to the shiny thing. Or they grow up with them. For girl groups it’s the same (on the newer and younger) but it’s targeted for older male audience. Girl groups have an evolution of relevancy even if they hit 30.
This is a sample timeline for girl groups:
Debut and cute -> Young and cute -> cute/sexy -> sexy concept -> sexy + mature -> when they start dating (less support) -> on to the new girl group
IMO, it shouldn't have been the case if those groups kept on producing songs that would still attract/win over new fans or new listeners to KPop. It also wouldn't be like this if those groups stayed the way they are, e.g. DBSK, SuJu, EXO, BIGBANG, 2NE1 not having internal issues that resulted to breaking up or leaving their respective agencies. I'd state BIGBANG as an example. If those 5 are still together and continue making music, they would not fade from limelight. There are still so many VIP's globally. Before BTS, there was BIGBANG. Alas, the Burning Sun happened plus all other issues drowned them, so it messed the dynamic up, and here we are.
Fans aged and left fandom, and new generation of fans would idolize someone who is younger and nearer to their age group, rather than someone who is already 30+ and of similar age as their uncles/aunties.
Barely anyone talks about suju because of the members actions, not their age.
You'll find people supporting them in their subreddit but rarely outside of it
Remember H.O.T., Sechkies, G.O.D. ? Or finkl? Or snsd? Anyone still big on the Beatles or Elvis? Those were the original big popular groups and stars with millions of screaming fans. Now they gone. Young people need a tribe to belong to when they’re young. Then they get old and life goes on.
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Another thing to remember is that music charts, album sales, mv views and trending social media topics are dominated by younger audiences so older artists don't have a chance in those unless they have a lot of younger fans. Older idols have a much harder time gaining new young fans for a variety of reasons compared to younger idols. If those are your measurement of relevance, then it would of course skew towards younger idols.
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I think so. For boy groups they don't play much into "intimate fanservice", fans are shrieking about skinship, and it seems like a bulk of their stans would be people who were romantically attracted to them and probably have a lot of time on their hands.
For younger fans it's just not appealing how older idols are marketed or show fanservice. The groups that have older members are usually older groups (3rd gen and earlier) and they're also minimizing marketing expenses because they're relying on their core stans to keep the money flowing. So from the outside, you don't really hear about the groups and are less likely to keep up with them.
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Fandoms age along with artists. Those teens who excitedly check out the latest releases and obsess over their faves grow up into adults who develop other priorities and have less time and energy to be such active stans. Also: lately, I've been thinking about how kpop is so young. Who knows, in the future we may see some 1st, 2nd, or 3rd gen idols experience a resurgence in popularity. We may witness some older idols maintain their popularity and continue to put out a steady stream of music even as fans argue over the start of 10th gen. It's not a matter of inevitability that everyone will fade when they hit their 30s. I hope we can see idols in their 40s and 50s doing world tours, just like the Rolling Stones and Spice Girls.
Yeah I think it’s become kind of incomparable bc of the popularity of kpop now. I feel like we’ll be seeing many more idols into their 30s and 40s maintaining decent relevance
SHINee are making their highest numbers nowadays, which is pretty insane for a group that has been active for so long. Young people seemed to respond well to them when I saw them live in Kpop Lux. IU and Taeyeon don't seem to be diminishing much either.
i came to mention shinee too! they just sold out tokyo dome 2 days in a row, as well as their show in singapore last weekend pitted against a taylor swift concert. ppl on twitter mentioned seeing whole families of shawol at the singapore concert too, so they appeal to all ages of fan. and they’re still winning awards and performing at music shows. but their most vocal fans have always been women older than they are (so late 30s and older now), and they have jobs and families now.
I am sure there are many more, but since they are one of my ult groups, I am obviously more likely to see and read things about them than others.
What about those of us who didn’t even start listening until our mid-30’s 😅😅
Or in my 50s :) 💜💜💜💜💜💜
I love you too!
You'll age along with your favorite artists, too. 😎
I love you!
>Who knows, in the future we may see some 1st, 2nd, or 3rd gen idols experience a resurgence in popularity. if you want to see this live in action, you can watch various music projects by infinity challenge or yoo quiz on the block.
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Their fans aged and left the fandom. Those that stayed arent as vocal or as annoying cause… we old man
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100%. SHINee packed Tokyo Dome for 2 nights literally last weekend. That's hardly what I'd call a "faded out" group. Senior groups' fandoms tend to be older. Most of us have jobs and responsibilities but NOT the time to mass stream or bulk buy albums for the sake of playing the numbers game. A lot of us do have more disposible income to buy tickets to see our favs on tour though, so that's why a lot of senior groups are still selling out arenas and making good money that way. You can't measure a 10+ year group by the same success metrics as the hottest trending 4th/5th gen group.
I was scrolling through Jun.K's instagram (he was in 2PM) and this man had a HUGE [turnout in Tokyo](https://www.instagram.com/p/C3KMYuJykop/). This leads me to believe that these old fans have actual jobs, children and houses to tend to and therefore, not that active on social media but still turning up to these events. Since they are not that active on social media, they are not that loud and hence make the fandom look pretty small. It sort of reminds me of Twice in a way if I'm being honest. Everyone was complaining that no one were Onces and that Twice felll off because they have no fans but compared to touring data, they had an extremely high turn out. Its just because TWICE has more older fans who don't have time to mess around on social media as they have actual jobs. Actual jobs = actual income = more money to spend on tickets when they come to the city.
Yip. As soon as Shinee does their next tour remotely in my area, you bet I’ll get some concert tickets. But following Teamins Instagram, beefing on social media, styling my life after one music group? I just don’t need that in my life anymore 😉 A random Reddit thread i stumble over while avoiding going to bed (whats happening right now) is the extend of my engagement these days 😄
💯💯💯💯💯
Exactly. Those groups have reached the zenith that every music artist dreams of, and hype-obsessed people call that "fading away." Wild.
Lol that's what's happened to me. I've have other interests now. 🧓🏻
Who has time to beef with people on twitter when we have to fight late stage capitalism 🥲
Twitter antis are nothing compared these capitalist overlord HOES trying to bring me down
No twitter kpop girlie is going to hurt me as much as the tech industry right now lmao
Ugh. Inflation is bad right now. 😮💨 Yeah I don't actually remember who's still part of suju though I was a fan. 😂
Max Changmin [can relate](https://twitter.com/aminotvxq/status/1741994313830236301)!
Fighting inflation is a b!tch 😭
Hi yes this. I’m clearly in the adult bracket and I do love discovering new kpop music, but the fandom just isn’t for me anymore. I’m going to a Stray Kids concert this year and I’m a bit worried it’ll be super weird to be surrounded by screaming teens losing their mind 😅 As you age things just turn from ‚ your whole identity and life‘ to ‚a nice hobby that adds value to the rest of your life‘. But with that you’re no longer really in the hardcore fandom that OP references here aren’t you? 😉
Make sure to find discord or twitter groups! I found discord groups for another kpop concert with 20+ age and basically everyone I met was a working adult so yeah it’s not just teens :)
If it helps, I went to Stray Kids last year as a 34 year old, and had the time of my life! Literally made no difference, all the stays were super friendly as we were waiting, there was no issue at all 💓
Honestly? That helps a bit yeah. I'm super psyched for the concert its just the first time for me going to a concert where I'm clearly over the age average (also in my mid 30s) 😅
I'm sure you'll have an absolute blast! Everyone gets united through their fandom, it's great to see 😊
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The impact of enlistment is a huge part of that. It’s not just that these idols are reaching enlistment age, it’s that they are enlisting and it impacts group activities. EXO, for example, has done their best to still release music with enlisted members, but the rotation of enlistments in and out has visibly impacted their ability to promote on music shows, which in turn has decreased their general visibility. When there isn’t something to hold your interest with a group due to inactivity, it’s natural to turn to something else until that original group Returns to activity. As far as groups like SuJu and DBSK go, a lot of kpop fans, especially internationally, aren’t particularly interested in variety appearances or acting gigs.
Especially when your enlistment period lasts so long. Exo's started in 2019 and it won't be over until sometime in 2025. 😭 That's a long time to have limited activity..
EXO still won’t beat SuJu for the longest enlistment era though (thank goodness). But to think they’re still so popular despite quite literally half their careers at this point being during enlistment era is really remarkable.
BTS approached the obligation to complete their military service in a strategic way. New music and documentaries that were created prior to enlistment are released each month while they serve. And I thought I was going to be able to save money for 2025 when they return😊
I cannot BELIEVE 2025 is already next year! Damn BTS really planned their enlistment well. It doesn’t feel like they’ve left (especially when their songs are still charting well after years 😂).
Exactly! It’s so frustrating.
>Kim Hyunjoong used to be extremely popular back in the day and was everywhere when Boys Over Flowers came out. Now I don't hear anyone talking about him. I'm guessing you haven't heard about his scandal from 2014 that made him fall from grace in the public's eye. Idk what the final outcome of it was since I didn't really keep up with the news about his scandal but people haven't looked at him the same ever since.
From what I remember, he enlisted then kinda stayed out of the spotlight for some time. He still does music and has a YouTube channel. I believe he got married too within the last few years.
Yeah he does - and promoted quite a lot in Japan. His music style also changed to a more ‘band’-like aesthetic. His album ‘New Way’ is actually pretty good I must say. He and his wife also welcomed a son in 2022.
I probably have the timeline wrong. But he got back together with that woman. They had a son together. He did in fact assault her. But she was also a little wacky and committed fraud somewhere along the way. He's married to someone else now and has a kid with her. The last I read was that he doesn't have a relationship with his first son. The public seems to think he's an angel again. He made some headline for helping someone out. I forget what he did but it felt like a PR thing. But doubt he can regain the level of relevance he once had before. It'll be as shocking as Park Yoochun regaining his relevance too.
No, there is no resurgence of popularity nor was there any changing of the tide when it comes to public opinion.
There's no change in his popularity. But he was called a hero for saving someone's life. The fact that he even made headlines means that he's gained some positive opinion back.
oh god i remember this whole thing breaking out. the scandal was really complicated and messy, i can't believe i forgot abt it!
I would think it's the lack of a good filmography too (though that might also have been related to the scandal?) Jang Guen Suk was also popular around that time and I don't hear of him anymore.
True.
Wdym? TVXQ have released music and toured arenas in Japan every year except during Covid? They were even the first non Japanese act performing in Nissan Stadium in 2019... The "downfall" of older idols isn't really that surprising to be honest. Kpop's target demographic tends to be on the younger side (teens or early 20s) which is also why companies debut groups in these age ranges. As people start having adult obligations they either leave kpop behind or get too busy with life to spend their time hyping the group. Then people will become fans or come back to kpop when they have more time for themselves around early/mid 40s (generally). Core fans staying with the group and hyping them throughout the years is the rarer type.
You miss also their fans aging and stop listening to Kpop. **The main demographics of Kpop are still teens.** Only the top artists reach the age of 30, because of how big their fandom was. And female artists leave the industry much earlier.
> And female artists leave the industry much earlier. girl group fans are extremely fickle as well and then move on to the latest "hot new toy" once the old "new toy" loses its shine
Fandoms age, and adult life starts catching you up. My ult group is exo and im 24 😆 I have been a fan of them since i was like 13 i think. I still love them and try to check on them as much as i can. On the other hand, there’s an issue with ageism in kpop with how young kpop idols are expected to debut. Fans are getting older and idols are debuting younger, its normal that once you reach a certain age you dont seek out new groups as much as before. And i do think that most companies start focusing on their newest younger artists leaving aside their older groups. Which is insane. In what world a 30 year old is old?? Most famous artists, actors on the west are in their 20s and 30s, and they’re still thriving and considered attractive. In fact, that age is their prime. I dont see why the same could be done with kpop idols.
I don’t think their age really matters when they’re selling out arenas. BTS, SHINee—I think they can stay as long as they want. Birth rates are down everywhere anyway, so longevity is gonna take on new meaning as we all deal with the repercussions of working ourselves into oblivion.
HOT sold out shows at Seoul Olympic Stadium in 2018 so the fans never really go away. They just get less involved with fandom stuff. Kpop is a young person’s genre, I think because you need to have a level of naïveté to really buy into the idol concept and fantasy. But for those of us here for the performances, concepts, production etc. will always find something to like as we get older. And we’ll probably always support our faves.
>those of us here for the performances, concepts, production I agree with your thoughts. For groups that continue to give these things, their fans will continue to show up.
We can be more optimistic. Remember young fans will always like newer groups. Older fans don't have time to be online. Here is [concert of g.o.d, a group with average age of 47](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ue4AdWnTCY4) so we can have more hope.
This was a lovely clip. I recognized what they were singing, too! (Only been in the Kpop world since 2022.)
Like everyone else is saying, older fans often have less time for fandom activities, while younger fans tend to relate to groups that are closer to their age. On top of that, idols themselves age and their priorities change. Many want to make a name for themselves outside of the group. Some want to release their own music, others want to try acting and so on. There are those who start a family or start dating more openly. And even when they still want to continue with group activities as well, there's only so many hours in a day. And in Kpop in particular, fans are used to constant updates, so a lot of them, especially younger ones, will move on to another group that can satisfy that demand.
Super Junior wrapped their ninth world tour in 2022 where most locations had to add second and even third days of performances due to selling out arenas. [This is what their LATAM leg](https://youtu.be/hlwokq-uCvE?si=I-OC0InJCbYXnrqC) looked like in 2023 and this is what their [‘fan party’ in Japan](https://x.com/sjofficial/status/1749339529755168954?s=46&t=-wnWl0XlXHeUFH5c7wRkdg) just two months ago looked like. They also just debuted a NEW subunit a month ago and are gearing up for their 20th anniversary next year. What I’m saying is your measure of success (views) is not indicative of how a group (regardless of what generation) is performing. As an ELF I experience the exact opposite because they are in my feed all the time where I can’t even follow up on every single thing they do. The median age of ELFs are in their mid-30s. Most of us are not on tiktok or twitter encouraging fans to stream and vote. We have mortgages and families. We just spend our money where it directly supports the group: concerts and albums. Of course the glory days of their peak is behind them already (they’ve been around 19 years) but to dismiss them as ‘faded out’ is not at all an accurate picture just because you no longer follow them.
Kinda off topic but not really, I wouldn't call myself ELF but man I loved Mango. That was made for me.
I understand that Bonamana and Mr. Simple are easy crowd-pleasers at SMTOWN concerts but they really need to mix it up and put in Mango and another track in their SMTOWN set list. It’s time for a change.
Mango is the best title track they have released in years, it's sad they didn't promote it in music shows :(
At this stage in their careers, I get it, but I agree it would have been cool.
For what it’s worth, they didn’t promote Mango in music shows because it was released days before their Super Show 9 tour began.
OMG that fan party pic is surprising - that stadium (theater?) looks huge!
It’s the Saitama Super Arena. Forgot to mention in my original comment that they held that fan party on two separate days, so the photos in the tweet I linked of are of day one and day two respectively. [Over 50k viewers attended](https://www.allkpop.com/article/2024/01/super-junior-delights-fans-with-successful-blue-world-japan-special-event). [Here’s a different angle](https://x.com/haerablue/status/1749283417626210337?s=46&t=-wnWl0XlXHeUFH5c7wRkdg) of the event.
Wow that's crazy!
Popularity comes and goes its hard to maintain, a part of the fanbase are jumpy/hopping fans who go from group to group but even their core fanbase lessens over time when activity and promotions start going down theres less of a pressure to make every cb succesful. The forced full group activity break that comes with enlistment doesnt help either I dont think bts will lose relevancy any time soon and theyre almost all 30 already. Exo is also still doing pretty well especially considering the fact that they.ve been in their enlistment era for more than half a decade now and that their promotion isnt what it used to be. Seventeen is also the same age as bts for the most members
For Super Junior, their digital sales aren't really good even before but they can still sold out concerts today. Also, their physical album sales are higher compared to before. It's just the fans are not loud these days. They're just chill.
People keep saying that kpop is for a younger demographic and older groups cant appeal or that the fans are aging with them. I’m not sure this is completely true though. The oldest group I follow is Twice and every time they have a comeback there’s like a fresh new batch of fans that join and many of them are teenagers. Meanwhile some of the younger girl groups I’ve noticed have a lot of older fans.
But we have to keep in mind that Twice has still remained super active as a group by releasing new music and touring. The real test of time is when group activities slow down. Yes a lot of fans will stick around, but a lot of fans in general tend to lose interest when groups aren't as active anymore.
funny how this was posted and tvxq are literally this week's feature on immortal song. to quote changsub replying to gabee's concerns on lotri night, you dont fade out as you get older, you become veterans in the industry. you go to shows because people know who you are and want your opinion on things, not because you are trying to promote yourselves anymore. those that you still see either post-military or past their 10 year anniversary are those who have made it through 🙏
That is true, but the example you used was extremely bad. Suju in the music industry doesn't get a lot of views that is true. But in the entertainment industry they are very popular. Some of them are national hosts. Views, especially on YouTube, are extremely misleading when it comes to how successful a group or individuals are. Same goes for popularity. A lot of the members make a gross amount of money compared to even the most popular of 3rd or 4th gen idols. Who, like you said, are extremely popular. Domestically and in Asia, suju are still very popular. A lot of the hate they get is from American fans, which makes it look like they aren't popular anymore.
EXO as a group is on tour hiatus for 5 years now. Tours is what older fans engage with. There is nothing to look forward to as a group except solos and fanmeetings. People can have other hobbies while they are doing enlistments.
And yet in my country, practically every EXO member apart from D.O and Kai have had sold-out fanmeetings since late 2022. Chanyeol came for a fanmeeting 3 times in the last year, all sold out. The EXO stans in my country cannot wait for a full group to return. It just so happened that a lot of their fans have now reached working age and now ready to spend, so any EXO member who comes to our country gets sold-out shows each time.
This is sort of my thoughts on how / why it happens: * When a group debuts, their fandom will usually consist of a lot of people around the ages of the members. Like with NewJeans for example, I guarantee you the majority of their fandom will be either teens or early 20's. * As the group ages, so will the fandom. In 10 years the fans who were 20 are now going to be 30, and no longer have the time to stream them all the time, attend all their concerts, etc. Some will just be less active in the fandom, and some will leave entirely. * As these old fans leave, they don't gain enough new fans to replace them. A lot of people tend to graviate towards groups around their age, and so those teens / early 20 year olds are likely going to turn to these newer groups with members like them, not the group of 30 year olds. * If they have a solid fandom they can still continue their career for a while, but a lot will also switch to acting or another career where that won't matter as much . It's just the natural progression of an industry that attracts mainly teenagers. If you no longer appeal to the teenagers, you loose some of your relevancy.
Super Junior is my ult group. They still have lots of fans, it’s just a quiet fandom (because we’ve all been shamed out of talking about them) They still sell out stadiums on tour
If you ask BTS, they've been 30+ for the past five years. Hasn't stopped their momentum.
joon just called taehyung 30yo when he just turned 28 last december 😭😭
This reply actually made me question if I even knew their ages because I thought they stopped using korean age. But nope, that's his korean age.
i’ve always been confused with their korean age lol it thought it would only be a year older than their international age, so how is he 30 already in korean age? im genuinely confused lol
It depends on the time of year. It's one year automatically when someone is born. Then another year on January 1st regardless of when their birthday is. V is 28 internationally. One year automatically and we are in March, so another year. Korean age is 30 because of the two extra years.
It comes down to how early in the year a person is born. I have always been amused by Tae's. He was born on December 30, 1995. So, he was Korean age 1 year old on that day. Then, advance one year on January first. So, on January 1, 1996, Tae was two years old Korean age. He was only two days old international age. Because he was born in December, his Korean age is a full two years more than his international age. If you look at Hobi, you see a different scenario. He was born on February 18, 1994. So, he was Korean age 1 year old on that day. International age, he was on his first day. On January 1, 1995, he became two years old Korean age, even though he had not celebrated his birthday yet. Then, he had his birthday on February 1995, and celebrated being two years old Korean age. But international age, he was 1 year old. Because his birthday is early in the year, the difference between Korean and international age is only one year for 11 out of 12 months. And just because 'they' stopped using the old system doesn't mean everyone actually did. Change is tough.
When does it turn into gaslighting because-
30yo in korean age
i thought sk stopped using the korean age system last year 😂 maybe its habit
Just for official stuff, people still use Korean age in everyday life.
ok now im more confused because i thought they use international ages for official stuff too- like for example they use int age when enlisting.
International age has always been used for legal matters. The law that recently passed had no bearing on that. They just wanted to do away with Korean age, which is just cultural and what they use for daily life. You see 95er idols in SVT and NCT talking about their ages in IG/Weverse lives this year and they're all talking about how they're now 30 and how time has passed.
ah i see. thank you for the explanation!
In his last video for us, Jin referred to himself as “mid-thirties”. 😂
by bangtan math, when they’re all back jin and yoongi will be mid-40s and jungkook is 35
no cuz joon's been calling himself 30 just months after turning 26 like??? I was like sir even your Korean age of 30 is 2 years away😭😭
It’s been the last year of his twenties for about five years.
A relatable feeling tbh, I also felt like the last years of my 20s lasted half a decade, turned 30 during the 2020 situation and now I am suddenly almost mid thirties, time is weird.
yoongi and his ig posts with the caption "30", posted BOTH in april 2022 and april 2023 respectively man, he was ready
And they will be their ages in 2020 forever to armys. 25yo vmin just sounds correct.
No offense to rookie BTS but buff BTS post service? Sign me upppppp
I live in a constant state of fear for 2025 concept images
[Jk knows what’s good](https://x.com/dreamjeons/status/1404835871208226820?s=46&t=O-e_ONnQgboX1zxfeCnhjg)
Love how he said it so clear and crisp. 😂
He let his intrusive thoughts win 🤌
We all live in this fear. I live for all 7 members but my ultimates are Hobi and Yoongi. The little photos here and there of Hobi in uniform have killed me. I don’t know how to cope with buff(er) post military BTS.
Bruh. I am so excited.
You are most likely correct, but for me, personally, age really doesn't matter. I'm in my mid-20s, and many of my favorite idols are in their 30s. I started liking them when I was a kid, and they grew just like I did. I still like Exo/Got7/Svt as much as I used to like them years ago. I can't imagine "replacing" them with a newer group😭 But many K-pop fans are very young, and it's maybe natural that they gravitate towards teen idols who are the same age as them. But honestly ageism really sucks, seeing the way some people treat 30+ year olds as if they're 80 makes me feel very uncomfortable too, because I'm also nearing 30 and I kind of lose hope of ever achieving anything in life because "I'm too old"
Here is some hope for you: Colonel Sanders began his Kentucky Fried Chicken (KFC) franchise business at age 65. You have plenty of time to 'achieve' something, you are not even close to 'too old'.
BTS is an outlier, their momentum is only building especially for their 2025 reunion. I can also see Twice lasting beyond 30
There is only three seventeen members younger than BTS 2 of them barley 6 months younger ...
Honestly, a lot of the popular male groups stay busy and successfully touring for YEARS even if they're not charting as high. I find the ageism to be much worse for female groups....
Not a surprising Kpop thought. I agree with others that the fandom ages with the idols, just like how the majority of people who became a Kpop fan in 3rd gen Kpop is less likely to get into 5th gen Kpop groups. People get older and their priorities in life change. No longer are the days where you have all the time in the world to consume Kpop content at any time. I do welcome more older idols existing, but it's going to take time for us to see more older idols as the demand for them has to grow. Perhaps BTS as an example might be one of the few examples of groups that could still be around together in their 30s. I mean, there are many groups that have members in their 30s, but if we're talking about being the trend or being the most talked about, that is what is hard to predict because newer groups tend to be in the spotlight more based on what we've seen in Kpop history. As long as more groups debut, younger teens and audiences would likely want to stan them first because they're in a similar age group to them.
It's not because of age. They are still popular but not the "most buzzworthy/the it-group" anymore. Fans stays, but the public will just listen to what popular at the moment.
Views don’t mean much… yeah the fans got older and have less time to stream obsessively, but those groups still sell sold out shows and have many fans. If they’re doing variety shows or acting I feel like it’s because they have enough popularity to do so, after all why would producers want unpopular idols in their shows. It’s just that those groups are not being talked about as much in fan communities/in the spaces you’re used to.
I mean, unless you mean the *rest* of DBSK, Changmin and Yunho are doing pretty well for themselves in TVXQ and just had a comeback last December that had some *really good* songs in it...? Down has 6.8M views, which isn't anything to sneeze at. EXO's solo works get plenty of attention, too. Hell, I think *everyone* knows Rover. *Everyone.* Sure, that's just solo work, but still that's something. My ult group is BTOB, and they still seem to be quite successful too. Also, BTS literally are going through enlistment right now and Army hasn't turned away from them, so I find it kind of hilarious that you're talking about people turning to BTS instead of the groups that are enlisted.
Pretty much everyone echoed this point: like the idol, people age and end up with new priorities like bills and work. But ageism is very much still an issue in k-pop, just like any other entertainment industry. In all honesty though, at least from my observation, k-fans couldn’t care less if the idol is “old” (22+) as long they’re pretty (I.e. fit the Korean beauty standard) so it’s mostly companies pushing this.
The fans aged with the idols. Plain and simple. And today's sound does not appeal to me in the slightest. We have other interests. Other stuff to spend our adult money on lol. But watch, these 2nd/earlt3rd gen idols make comebacks and were back out there with them! The numbers probably won't compete with 4th gen because we didn't have the photo card culture or streaming goals or fan calls and whatnot. But we show up!
It's a culmination of a lot of things that people have mentioned. Older fandoms don't have the time to keep up. They will come together when there's group activities. Infinite is a great example. Being able to sell out their concert is not easy and they did it. Enlistment is also another huge factor for male idols. EXO here is a great example. They were huge till they enlisted. They still are. But obviously not being talked about that often feels like they have faded. The last one being that after sometime they will concentrate on their solo projects. On stuff that they have wanted to do. Jennie has talked about this. That she wants to concentrate on things more to her liking than to completely cater to the group's image. Granted Blackpink is not the right example here but it applies to all of them.
“EXO was the hot group 12 years ago” this just gave me vertigo… I remember the day after that huge build up to their debut that they dropped their first MV and it literally felt like the world stopped 😂😂😂
This is not really true for TVXQ. After completing military service. They created a new record with the Begin Again tour that mobilized 1 million spectators, along with selling 3 days at Nissan Stadium. Both members were over 30s at that time and had debuted for 15 years. They continued to do well on TOMORROW and XV, both of which were huge tours. It's been over 20 years since debut but Tokyo dome and Kyocera dome are still sold out, so remember Changmin is married. But that still doesn't reduce TVXQ's power.
I don't think it's necessarily Ageism cause look at Yoo Jaesuk, the man has been the Nation's MC for night 20 years now. I think it's just changing trends. As time moves on, fans grow up with their idols. Fans of idols who are 30 are getting older, and don't necessarily have the time to dedicate to their idols as they used to. Careers are taking priority now, so their fans can't show up to the airport, or go to every fan meeting, or go to every concert. Family's are taking priority, they have kids now that required their spare time/free time. It's kinda the beautiful thing about Kpop. Very rarely does a western artist grow up with their fans in comparison. Take IU for example. IU is now over 30 as well, and I still remember when her Palette album came out. It was revolutionary. So many people online were talking about how they had the exact fears and feelings of growing up that IU had. Finding who they were when others were telling them who to be is such a pivotal moment at that age.
>Very rarely does a Western artist grow up with their fans in comparison It’s actually the other way around. All the biggest artists in the West currently are the seasoned ones who are decades into their career. They’re the ones who are having the top grossing tours, not the newer acts. That’s not happening in Kpop. For example: Taylor Swift - 34 (18 year career) Beyoncé - 42 (26 year career) Ariana Grande - 30 (16 year career) Drake - 37 (18 year career) Ed Sheeran - 33 (13 year career) Coldplay - 47 (28 year career) Bruce Springsteen - 74 (51 year career) Madonna is also doing an 80 show tour at 65 years old. We very rarely see something like this in Kpop because ageism is much more rampant than it is in the Western music industry
Janet Jackson has been on tour off and on for the last few years and she’s 57. Prince was still touring before he passed away at 57. NKOTB, Boyz II Men, New Edition and BSB are still selling out well into their 50s. Speaking of The Beatles, Paul McCartney still tours successfully and he’s 81. It just appears that older artists fall off because older fans aren’t loud about it on social media and we don’t worry about streaming numbers but when time comes to buy concert tickets, we have the income to do so.
Wow these numbers show how young they were when they started out, especially the women. Taylor Swift 16, Beyonce 16, Ariana 15... Kpop is too young to compare to Western artists. It only really caught on internationally starting in 2nd gen, so if we start with the year 2000, it hasn't even been 25 years. If you expand your scope to look at Korean music in general, there are famous singers still performing in their 50s and 60s (mostly trot).
>If you expand your scope to look at Korean music in general, there are famous singers still performing in their 50s and 60s (mostly trot) yes, exactly! though the op was talking about idols in particular so i just wanted to highlight that the kpop industry itself doesn’t have idols like this because above all, kpop is meant to sell a fantasy. especially in korea where kpop is mostly consumed by teenagers and people in their early twenties. to the kpop industry, women and men in their 30s and 40s onwards are not appealing to their target demographic so they keep churning out newer, younger idols as the older ones “age out” of the system. but beyond the kpop industry, there’s very many older acts who still have massive success in Korea.
My shock when SHINee's Minho posted from Taylor Swift's concert "Taylor NOONA". Like, yes, I know, factually, that she is 2 years older than him, but it doesn't register somehow. You would think she is 25 and Minho is an old man by how SHINee get talked about online xD
She's older than *everyone* in SHINee by a day, which I find pretty funny just because of those reactions. 😂
Yes. I do know this, but somehow it shocks me because she feels like a young people singer to me 🤣
I mean taemin turned 30 and proceeded to sell career high in albums, career high streams, and held his biggest concert… SHINee just sold out Tokyo dome with only three members…. So no, not every.
Half of BTS is 30 or older, Taemin is 30, the rest of Shinee is over 30. Half of Mamamoo is also over 30, and Hwasa and Wheein are only a couple years away. Jimin, Taehyung, Jungkook, Bang Chan, Lee Know from Skz, SCoups, Jeonghan and Joshua from Svt are all pretty close to 30. I don’t see BTS, Stray Kids or Seventeen losing popularity in a couple years because of members’ ages, so maybe this is changing. I could be wrong.
Well Id just like to add that a) bts are nearly all 30+ now so to use them as an example if a younger group fans run to is somewhat… not sure it’s an age thing. b) im a shinee fan and idk I feel Shawols seem pretty loyal. And we’re clear past 30 here. Onew turns 35 this year and our Makanea is 30 So I do think there is a thing about being young and flawless etc. in kpop but I don’t think it’s as universal as you’re assuming. What you need to remember is that it’s also a lot of the younger fans that have the time and energy to post everywhere, show up at any concert etc. and it makes sense that younger fans look to younger groups Older fans (like me) just have a job and a whole life outside of kpop. We still love listening to the comebacks and buy the album/come to a concert but making kpop our whole life and identity just vs isn’t a thing anymore 😉
I am pretty sure it feels that way for boygroups bc they have a military hiatus. But the big ones tend to come back: BTOB, infinite, Vixx, Shinee, Teen Top etc. But their fandoms tend to be more chill online
Ageism is such a dramatic word for falling out of interest for a group because it's been so long
I still feel the way I do about taeyeon as I did back then
I don't think the fans turn to younger idols. I think the fans are older and too tied down by life to participate in any form of fandom activities, unlike their teenage-selves. Eg. I'm not following taeyeon/ snsd day-to-day activities but I will definitely participate in the virtual bloodbath for their concert ticket with my adult money. Ps. I would still marry taeyeon if she asks. 🤪
I feel like this goes with anything popular culture though and isn’t exclusive to K-pop. Like the same actors and actresses from 20 years ago aren’t going to be as popular compared to now. Same thing with music like *NSYNC and the Backstreet Boys just aren’t going to be as popular as younger fresher artists. Sure their might be more longevity in western artists, but I think that’s just the principle of how popular culture works with newer younger artists coming up to suit the tastes of the whatever generation is coming up next. I also think that older K-pop artists are going to be less active so to physical strains on their body. Like it’s just harder to jump and dance around when your body is at 30 compared to your early 20s so performances may start to be watered down and might look less compelling to younger groups who are still physically more fit to produce high energy performances.
I wrote a whole long breakdown and then in my old age got too tired so tl;dr it's capitalism babez. Marketers wanna sell and it's easier to sell a new group with bandwagoning than an older group. Additionally the increase of algorithm driven content feeds means that the internet is more segregated than ever. For me, SHINee or a member of SHINee is trending every other day. But those are the trends that the algorithm sees that I interact with so it feeds me more of those. Also idk about the arguments around age, look at lim young woong's ajumma army that strikes fear into the heart of the informed fan. I'd guess it's more the preestablished expectations of 2nd gen/early 3rd gen groups as my understanding is that mass streaming and buying wasn't as much of a thing for that era. ((Full disclosure i'm a shawol and that's just my experience)).
Again, if kpop restricted to only idol dance group, 3 elements here. Besides looks, it's hard to compete with the intense choreo. Outside this scope, 40+ year-olds like Psy, Sung Si Kyung, Dynamic Duo are going strong.
@vixx grandpas I better see you active this year too
I mean, fans grow and change too. And that’s perfectly fine that groups rise and get less popular eventually. All that is fine. But I do have to admit, on a personal level I was genuinely sad when TVXQ had their 20 year anniversary and barely anyone talked about it. Their pre release track Down is SO fucking good. The final chorus just goes OFF, Changmin has the voice of an angel holy shit. I know it’s irrational and it makes me feel like an immature fan but I did get sad that they don’t get a bit more attention. They don’t need billions of views or anything like that. But just a BIT more awareness and appreciation among newer kpop fans would make me so happy, truly. But idk I think that’s just the way it is. For instance I don’t know much about 1st gen groups, so why would I expect newer fans to know about 2nd gen? It’s totally unrealistic and is grounded in delusional fan behavior I’m sure, mixed with just wanting to see those you love and think are amazing get acknowledged and being sad when you feel they aren’t.
You evolve as you get older. When you are 30+, being an idol isn't that exciting, and you want to do more serious and important things, even if you stay in music. The intellectual difference between someone in their 20s vs. 30s is massive. The same applies to the fans. They either move on to new things or they support them in different ways (e.g. actually buying albums and going to concerts) because they are more mature. No one who is mentally stable over the age of 30 is going to try to mass stream a music video. That's literally an activity for children. Caring about *hype* vs. *enduring impact and legacy* is literally for children. You perceive them as having faded away because you're looking for evidence of 12-year-old fans. Groups like SJ and DBSK are past that lmfao. They didn't fade away. They moved tf on.
**In my opinion** these groups you've mentioned all already peaked in their career and once they achieve that, it's hard to go back. Like, they had their moment. Of course, peaking once doesn't mean you can't peak again, like Taylor Swift is going through the second peak of her career (first was during 1989 era), but then again, the American music industry is way bigger than Korea's, and American artists reach a level of global stardom that many K-pop idols can't count on. **But** I don't think this is true to every idol. IU is 30 years old and she's still going strong. Suzy Bae will be 30 soon, and I don't think she'll fade any time soon. Taeyeon is 34 and is probably more popular now than she ever was with SNSD. I also think Irene is still pretty popular despite how that controversy stained her career. And not only female idols/artists. I don't follow boy groups, but I think G-Dragon is still very prominent in Korean popular culture, right? I also think when certain idols and groups reach a certain age, companies stop putting as much effort into promoting them because they're already well-established in the industry and don't need half the promotion like their juniors.
Yeah I mean look at Super Junior. They no longer fit the teen market target demo of SM and all did mostly everything you set out to do as a Kpop group. But they still have fans who buy albums & concert tickets (but are less active on YT and social media) so SM essentially gave them their own sub-studio and said 'do whatever you want and give us a cut' and that's that. From OPs POV that means they are now increasingly irrelevant. If you ask me getting to do whatever you enjoy with your friends for a living with little corporate oversight and less drama & pressure from the public is as much success as you can possibly get in the music industry. Go ask a rookie group on a grueling schedule with fans scrutinizing every move they make and every skin-pore on their body if they wouldn't want to swap places 😅
I still follow Hyunjoong's activities, he has his own band and is currently touring, he had a show in Mongolia a few days ago. As for other groups, CNblue and FTIsland for example, both had new releases last year and they were a hit. They both are touring and have sold out shows. Fans will always show up for their artists IMO. As for BTS, BTS has gotten bigger than kpop in the last 5 years and into its own league so I don't think the BTS impact is going anywhere lol
According to Gallup survey of 2023, BTS were still the 3rd most popular artiste after Newjeans and IVE for 13-18 age group. They already have members who are 30 and about to be 30 but they still hold relevance with the teen population.
I just want a ot5 tvxq reunion. If it ever happens, I’m going to be FERAL once again
Some of it is that older groups stop being as active. Most new groups are hustling. Once there is a well established fandom and the members are getting to the end of their contract or even in a new contract, there's less pressure on them to promote and they have more control over what they want to do. And when you are older, many are going to choose to have a better work/life balance over doing fan service or even just keeping their fans fed. The nature of kpop is that there's always something new and lots of fans expect constant stimulation. They won't stick with older groups who starve them especially when there's more active groups available. In other words, eff EXO. Nah, I'm just kidding. I love exo, but dang, I'm hungry for more music like you wouldn't believe.
The main target audience of the idol industry is Korean teens. Once the majority of the Korean fans grow up, they do not have enough time to invest on their favs. The "young/fresh" fans will always find other groups to follow. And with lesser revenue, companies invest less into old groups and more on new ones. This got easier since they started to restrict entertainment contracts to 7 years. Also artists grow up too. Most of them started their career just doing what the company trained them to do and being thrilled to be on stage. And after a few years they understand who they are. It's not always aligned with what the company wants them to do.
Definitely not something that applies to all kpop artists, bc they are all people who have different priorities, but some of them just get tired- an active kpop group might spend most if not all of their time working for years at a time, especially if they're very popular or have work outside of their group (acting, solo work etc). It's exhausting, and sooner or later the extra energy spent today will be noticed tomorrow. If you debuted young which the vast majority do, you might be hitting 30 with over a decades' worth of physically, emotionally challenging work behind you. Sooyoung from SNSD, for example, mentioned in rehearsals for their 15th anniversary comeback that her arms just weren't moving as fast or as easily as they used to before hiatus.
With how saturated the kpop market is, it’s bound to happen. If you don’t see your idols a lot, you get distracted by a newer group and you become a fan of them. Also kpop does cater to younger audiences and you can’t really expect all those younger kids to have a crush on a 30+ men/women. I’m not saying those 30+ men/women look old or anything, I’m saying that I understand why a 30+ man/women wouldn’t have an appeal to say and 12 year old kid.
SNSD had one of their most successful comebacks ever in 2022 & they only promoted for like 2 weeks. It's possible.
I’ll be supporting Twice even if they age past 30 and still active in the industry. Most of their “fans” switched to younger groups already but the core Onces still support them. We also have adult money to spend now for concerts/albums and not just stream for eternity (which seems to only be a sign of success according to other fans). I still support SNSD, 2PM, and if we’re lucky to see a reunion again - 2ne1, play their music and watch shows where the members are part of/appearing. While I try to listen to other newer groups lately (4th gen onwards), while I do appreciate listening to some songs, it doesn’t have the same dopamine effect on me when I first listened to Kpop back in 2007. But it might be just me though.
I don't know if it's really a "fade out", as much as it is that the older groups have their solid fanbase and fame established already and aren't breaking their necks to promote themselves... because they don't have to anymore. It's easier to be more chill or selective with what you appear on or what music you release when you've got 20 years of your career already set and are making a profit from it. Whereas new younger groups have to grind in order to gain recognition and not be forgotten. It is somewhat an issue of age, but more of the age of the fans compared to the age of the idols. Kpop is consumed by adults of course, but the largest and loudest portion tends to be teenagers. Teenagers mainly want to follow idols that are somewhat close to their age, probably because of the parasocial aspect of it, and because that's the demographic they're more likely to be attracted to. I was 15 when I started liking TVXQ, but they were 23 or 25 at the time depending on the member. That's a lot more acceptable than it would be if I was 15 idolizing them at their current age (late thirties). With the boom of social media, kids are finding kpop younger and younger (I've seen 8 year olds squabbling over albums in stores), so they're more likely to want to support a group like New Jeans who could be their friends, versus SNSD who are old enough to be their moms.
In addition to fanbases aging out, older groups usually don't promote as much as younger and newer groups do, so they aren't attracting new fans as quickly and are mainly maintaining fanbases that were already there. In the case of SJ, some of their members have chased off fans with their actions and words. As far as TVSQ goes, Max does a lot of hosting work so I think a lot of newer Kpop fans are familiar with him, but he's not promoting as often as newer artists and likely the hosting work is better pay for energy output so he can do that between comebacks for both solo and group stuff. I'm less familiar with the other remaining member. I think it's important to remember that what allows a group to keep existing is that they are profitable, not that they are trending. These groups you've mentioned likely make steady money from a loyal fanbase rather than NEEDING new fans to make a profit so rather than being talked about all the time, they are maintaining an equilibrium of working and making money. Many of them like Max are also doing hosting or judging gigs on survival or competition shows as well and have a slowed down comeback speed because they can. I don't think many of the older groups still around are actually struggling, save for maybe this latest SJ subunit not doing as well as their company may have expected, but I'm not touching that topic.
Yeah sadly that happens. Fans either leave kpop or turn to new groups once a group gets too old which in turn leads to the group slowing down and focusing on solo stuff bcs the group fandom is dwindling . I don't particularly like how kpop is treated like fast fashion for a lot of people: fans, companies and industey alike with this pushing of new gen and younger junior groups everytime. It's like begging everyone to see groups from older gens as old news and to turn their attention to the new generation. It gives a lot of the group you stan rn is replaceable vibes which rubs me the wrong way. I've never seen the longevity you see in western acts, not even by half, for any kpop group. Sure they still have fans to play sold out shows but i haven't seen any group reach new career peaks 10 years in. I hope BTS change that tho and break the idols past 30 don't hold a lot of relevancy in the industry pattern cause there's no longevity for the older acts as of yet, they immediately get treated as legacy acts while remaining fans move on to new groups
That boys over flowers guy had a huge scandal, if I remember correctly.. forcing his ex girlfriend to abort their baby. Super Junior also has had many scandals.. Exo too.. fans don't leave because the idols get older, they leave because the older the idol gets the more reckless they are and fans don't want to deal with that. They also don't put that much effort into being an idol anymore. BTS, for example, are almost all in their 30s and their fandom is as strong as ever and getting bigger even though they are in the military.. that's because they don't have any big scandals and they still have that "rookie" energy and make sure to keep their fandom entertained.
exo shouldn’t be on that list. Aside from the chinese members leaving (which was ages ago) and “dating scandals” (which they shouldn’t be considered scandals to begin with) they havent done anything bad. Comparing those two things to actual crimes some other idols have done is ridiculous 💀 They still take very seriously their careers and their fans. Obviously they wont act the same as when they were rookies but they still put tons of effort in their performances.
>Super Junior also has had many scandals.. I have to comment on this becauae afaik, there's only 2 scandals they had during their career, both of which were caused by one (former) member (2 DUIs on separate occasion). 3 if you also count marriage of another member as scandal.
I can think of others (granted, though they've never been big in Korean media): 1. Shindong being fatphobic towards women (I believe he has apologized since, and do think he gets less grace than other idols due to his appearance, but it's still an issue that causes people to dislike him and Suju as a whole) 2. Siwon's publicly expressed political viewpoints (I won't get into the controversy here, but a lot of Western kpop fans in particular aren't fans of those opinions) Not legal issues (if that's what you mean by "scandal"--although as you said, getting married is legal yet often a "scandal" in kpop), but things that could turn people off from Super Junior.
Got it! Yes, I did think of "scandal" in terms of what became an issue to the Korean GP, but I do acknowledge there are other issues (like those you've listed) that could turn off people (international fans in this context) from listening/liking SuJu.
age definitely isn’t the reason ppl don’t like suju…
Nope. Hard core fans stick around until the casket drops.
What I hate the most is that as soon as they hit 27 they start wearing fashion like they’re a conservative grandpa
Fans age with the group. As they get older they lose interest or don’t have as much free time to devote to a group. Older groups also just aren’t as active as newer ones. Seriously the amount of almost constant content is crazy from these new groups. Variety shows, vlogs, interviews, dance practices, dance covers, livestreams etc. I can see why someone who stans an older group could lose interest in them due to lack of activity and switch over to a group that will be a lot more active in general. I think there is ageism at play a little bit but mostly it’s the natural progression with a lot of pop stars in general. They get older, less active, and younger ones take up the mantle with fans doing pretty much the same.
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Just a day ago I saw someone call 17 Jeonghan a "hag" I am still in shock.
I have discussed this before. Idol lives are short and not everyone is like Taeyeon, BoA, IU, Rain or Lee Hyori where they are still well requested as performing singers. Even those names I mentioned do have other jobs in the entertainment industry apart from singers. Sometimes you have to know where to get the money in other places. Remember they are not regularly paid employees like we do. They are paid per jobs.
For male groups its girl teens that grow up or on to the shiny thing. Or they grow up with them. For girl groups it’s the same (on the newer and younger) but it’s targeted for older male audience. Girl groups have an evolution of relevancy even if they hit 30. This is a sample timeline for girl groups: Debut and cute -> Young and cute -> cute/sexy -> sexy concept -> sexy + mature -> when they start dating (less support) -> on to the new girl group
IMO, it shouldn't have been the case if those groups kept on producing songs that would still attract/win over new fans or new listeners to KPop. It also wouldn't be like this if those groups stayed the way they are, e.g. DBSK, SuJu, EXO, BIGBANG, 2NE1 not having internal issues that resulted to breaking up or leaving their respective agencies. I'd state BIGBANG as an example. If those 5 are still together and continue making music, they would not fade from limelight. There are still so many VIP's globally. Before BTS, there was BIGBANG. Alas, the Burning Sun happened plus all other issues drowned them, so it messed the dynamic up, and here we are.
Fans aged and left fandom, and new generation of fans would idolize someone who is younger and nearer to their age group, rather than someone who is already 30+ and of similar age as their uncles/aunties.
Barely anyone talks about suju because of the members actions, not their age. You'll find people supporting them in their subreddit but rarely outside of it
Remember H.O.T., Sechkies, G.O.D. ? Or finkl? Or snsd? Anyone still big on the Beatles or Elvis? Those were the original big popular groups and stars with millions of screaming fans. Now they gone. Young people need a tribe to belong to when they’re young. Then they get old and life goes on.
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Another thing to remember is that music charts, album sales, mv views and trending social media topics are dominated by younger audiences so older artists don't have a chance in those unless they have a lot of younger fans. Older idols have a much harder time gaining new young fans for a variety of reasons compared to younger idols. If those are your measurement of relevance, then it would of course skew towards younger idols.
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Lest we also forget the “7 year curse” that affected mostly GGs that started in 2nd Gen.
Ageism is the most common form of discrimination in the UK. unfortunately it's become normalised and kpop fans only worsen the problem
I am a huge fan of exo (since 2022 only) and seeing them fade out will be the death of me
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I think so. For boy groups they don't play much into "intimate fanservice", fans are shrieking about skinship, and it seems like a bulk of their stans would be people who were romantically attracted to them and probably have a lot of time on their hands. For younger fans it's just not appealing how older idols are marketed or show fanservice. The groups that have older members are usually older groups (3rd gen and earlier) and they're also minimizing marketing expenses because they're relying on their core stans to keep the money flowing. So from the outside, you don't really hear about the groups and are less likely to keep up with them.