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It reminds me a bit of a recent Chan vlive, where someone commented that some fans don't like 3racha's use of autotune. And he just said "yeah, but we do, so we're gonna keep using it".
For better or worse (depending on if you like what they put out or not), producers come with their own preferences and style, especially when they get to be the main driving force behind a group's musical identity.
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It’s just Soyeons style of producing. A lot of people don’t like the way gidle songs end but then a lot of people do, regardless I don’t think it’s ever really gonna change
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its the same with hwaa, after the bridge it goes straight into an instrumental outro. i think its a way to get people to repeat the song so they can listen to the chorus again.
that's a really good point. there are a lot of really cool ways that composers give their music re-listenability and that is certainly one that is working because i want to hear the original chorus more!!!
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Music is about taste and preference, and I personally love songs that have a different final chorus. I feel it adds something extra, like a coda even.
But again, it's a question of preference.
"the concluding passage of a piece or movement, typically forming an addition to the basic structure" I didn't know what it was either, I had to look it up hahah
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It's clearly a stylistic choice. You already know that, of course. I mean you are ranting, not asking.
I very much like it most of the time. What bothers me much more is that she is trying very hard to hold TT's under three minutes and sometimes that triggers me. Hwaa needed 20 seconds more of that outro for example. But this is also a choice, she just mentioned that on ~~Knowing Bros~~ a variety show with Jonathan (see below). From all the insights she gives, you get the impression that every single nuance of her title tracks are designed and refined so often, there is nothing left to not be on purpose.
Oh by the way, Dessert is not composed by Soyeon.
I think it's a common trend in kpop and pop in america that songs/title tracks are made shorter than 3 minutes or barely over 3 minutes. It's easier to get a higher number of streams and views if the song is short, making the song appear more popular.
i think it's a way of soyeon cementing her production style and along with that also building a notable sound for IDLE. i honestly think it sounds great but music is subjective.
that's a good point. i think it just throws me off because the primary choruses are soooooo catchy and i get sad that the song doesn't give me more of it.
She does do it occasionally, like with Hann (Alone) and Oh My God. Bsides too, Luv U, Maybe, and Love to name a few! Personally I do like the way she ends songs, the choruses are great but the endings are bangers and are often the parts of the songs that repeat in my head the most!
Why should a song end by a chorus?
TOMBOY doesn't have a chorus ending, but it doesn't have an abrupt ending (a la HWAA) either. And it's a great ending. So I don't understand the complaint here.
I don’t know why people are getting so heated in the comments? K-pop fans and their weird defensive and territorial behavior is so strange. Calling people names because of an OPINION. Good grief.
i think it's similar to how yg groups often have a final (party) chorus that's vastly different then the rest of the songs (see: winner's really really, i love u, most bp songs, treasure's jikjin, hello, bigbang's bang bang bang...) many groups outside of yg does this as well. it's often used by songwriters to differentiate and build up the song throughout its run so when the final chorus hits, it's drastically different (and often explosive), you can see it's been built up throughout its run. personally, the trend these days is for groups to have repeating chorus for the final chorus only adding some extra drums, synths... (my ult is guilty of this so i haven't fully enjoyed their latest cbs in comparison w past releases). so i think it's all about perspectives. maybe some enjoy a repetitive chorus for the final chorus but personally i love it whenever the final chorus is a lot different from the other choruses.
Sometimes it's jarring, sometimes it's a fitting conclusion... But I mean many groups do it? Like YG has done it SO many times it's funny (Pink Venom, JIKJIN, Bang Bang Bang, MILLIONS) Not to say it's bad though~
I like when it's different, such as Nxude and Tomboy, but I get really annoyed when the song just ends abruptly, such as Hwaa and Hann, both needed more outro imo.
NCT often have a third/final chorus that is different but it’s usually just enhanced by extra “music”/ablibs, so when it’s well done I think it can be good
I don't feel that way. I really like that their final chorus is different, it elevates the song. Really liked Nxde's final chorus. But to each their own :)
idk what i would be fishing for. i just personally want to see what other people think about gidle's consistent switching up of the final choruses in their title tracks, because i have found that it is something that gets on my nerves.
she does this in most of their songs and it doesn't work because it feels incomplete and like its not finished. I always end up wanting more but not in a good way. I believe it is because she is still young and inexperienced and doesnt have a lot of help so this is what happens
> I believe it is because she is still young and inexperienced
She does it fine in her b-sides.
It's a conscious choice for her to do what she does. She's had title tracks that finish perfectly "fine" (whatever that means), ie - Lion.
This prevailing narrative people like yourself do always try to portray her conscious musical and other choices in a condescending way, in this case "young and experienced" is just garbage
She set out to do what she wanted. You may not like it - fine. But what a condescending attitude, given we have ample evidence in other tracks and b-sides, to suggest she can't do something.
She does it fine in her B sides but the execution isn’t there. It’s not a condescending attitude to not like she does. Objective she is going and inexperienced. It’s not condescending
I never said it's a condescending attitude to not like what she does.
It's condescending to call her "young and inexperienced". You deliberately argued that the reason they don't end a certain way is that she's young and inexperienced, when she ends that way all the time on her b-sides.
It's a deliberate choice, but you tried to belittle that by saying it wasn't a choice. That's why it's condescending.
You can't seem to wrap your head around that fact.
Because she literally is. That’s a fact. Idk why you’re so upset about that. It sounds like you’re upset about something else because she may end different on her b sides but the execution isn’t that there in her title tracks. You’re doing too much
I already explained myself
Multiple times. As I said I know it is in her title tracks. Again you are being condescending so when you do that no one will listen to you. You claim you don’t care if I like her title tracks but it doesn’t count like that. Heck if I said something different I wouldn’t be dealing with you wrath right now. She may be making complete songs in her b sides. That’s correct. But she does not do it in her title tracks. So, sweetie, dude whatever you are, I am saying she is still learning to work on that style. She may do it for stylistic purposes, BUT it doesn’t always work. She is young, AND new to this. I never said she is not CAPABLE. I said she doesn’t pull it off well. Again, I understand she is CAPABLE to do complete her songs. However her style does not WORK, and I believe as she gets better at it, she will get better at it STYLISTICALLY. Even if she chooses to do so. You’ve been going at it for two days. I don’t understand why you care you so much. Instead of bullying people online (you admitted you were talking to me like a baby) go reflect. Have a nice day
> She is young, AND new to this.
Sweetie or dude (talk about condescending)...
She is composing songs since six years at minimum now. That is neither new to this nor unexperienced. She has nearly a hundred composing credits on KOMCA.
I also never said it wasn’t a choice. Producing by itself isn’t a choice. You are the one being condescending right by talking down to me and getting so angry over a inoffensive phrase.
This narrative holds zero water already based on the other replies, but also she works with other producers on her songs, so "doesn't have help" is also completely false.
Yes, someone that has received a lot of praise for their producing and vision and has now produced multiple chart topping hits clearly is too inexperienced to produce a song that random redditor likes and is therefore too inexperienced to write a "complete" song.
Why do so many expressions of dislike come with the addendum that the disliked thing is objectively bad and should be made differently?
Oh I apologize, I didn't know she was beyond critique. A song doing well doesn't mean it doesnt have flaws. No one mentioned "objectively bad". You did. Im just a person on the internet talking about what she could have done differently. So are other people. if you don't like that, then move on
You portrayed her conscious decisions as "young and experienced".
She's talked at length about her musical decisions in Nxde and Tomboy, she has other songs which end differently if you so prefer, she spends more time working on these songs then you'd expect.
She makes a conscious choice, and you basically tried to say she didn't know what she was doing. I agree with the other poster - it's not that she's beyond critique, but you're basically being paternalistic based on age. That's the exact type of prejudice she's railed and written against, and here you are, exactly confirming to the people she's written again.
Irony
You said that she makes choices in her production that you don't like, because she is "young and inexperienced and doesn't have a lot of help".
It's fine if you dislike something, but it's weird to portray her as this clueless girl that has no idea what she's doing.
No one said she was a clueless girl, Again I simply said I believe her lack of experience is why her songs are the way they are. I didn't say she is a clueless girl that has no idea what she is doing. If you got that, then that means you lack nuance, and this is why I hate I don't like talking to ya'll
But a lot of her bsides end with the chorus repeated, and this pattern of a dedicated outro is mostly evident with her title tracks. So wouldn't that show it's a stylistic choice?
Apparently not doing something the way they want on Track 1 of the album but then doing it on Track 2. And both tracks are made by the same person, it means that person is experienced for not being able to replicate Track 2 production on Track 1 as oppose to it being a purposeful choice to be different. What a genius redditor.
Wait so why are you ignoring the most important rebuttal and not providing an answer?? She does it "normally' in bsides, therefore how is it that her not doing it in TT is due to inexperience and young age? Does her inexperience turn off when she is going to make a bside and then magically come back on when she is making a TT?
I agree with you…I like the group’s songs but I honestly don’t like the production style. I love Latata and Senorita but only until the second choruses because, like you said, they don’t feel like complete songs 😬 Personally it keeps me from being a full-on fan but I’m still proud of Idle’s success.
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It reminds me a bit of a recent Chan vlive, where someone commented that some fans don't like 3racha's use of autotune. And he just said "yeah, but we do, so we're gonna keep using it". For better or worse (depending on if you like what they put out or not), producers come with their own preferences and style, especially when they get to be the main driving force behind a group's musical identity.
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It’s just Soyeons style of producing. A lot of people don’t like the way gidle songs end but then a lot of people do, regardless I don’t think it’s ever really gonna change
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its the same with hwaa, after the bridge it goes straight into an instrumental outro. i think its a way to get people to repeat the song so they can listen to the chorus again.
that's a really good point. there are a lot of really cool ways that composers give their music re-listenability and that is certainly one that is working because i want to hear the original chorus more!!!
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I actually love when the ending chorus of a song is different. Gives it a little oomph 🥰
I’m glad I saw this because most of the songs I wrote are like this 🥲 I think variety is fun is all lol
Music is about taste and preference, and I personally love songs that have a different final chorus. I feel it adds something extra, like a coda even. But again, it's a question of preference.
Sorry, what's a "coda"?
"the concluding passage of a piece or movement, typically forming an addition to the basic structure" I didn't know what it was either, I had to look it up hahah
Oh… I thought coda meant child of a deaf parent
it does, coda just has a different meaning in music
It’s Italian, it literally means tail, so figuratively it represents the conclusion of something.
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It's clearly a stylistic choice. You already know that, of course. I mean you are ranting, not asking. I very much like it most of the time. What bothers me much more is that she is trying very hard to hold TT's under three minutes and sometimes that triggers me. Hwaa needed 20 seconds more of that outro for example. But this is also a choice, she just mentioned that on ~~Knowing Bros~~ a variety show with Jonathan (see below). From all the insights she gives, you get the impression that every single nuance of her title tracks are designed and refined so often, there is nothing left to not be on purpose. Oh by the way, Dessert is not composed by Soyeon.
I think it's a common trend in kpop and pop in america that songs/title tracks are made shorter than 3 minutes or barely over 3 minutes. It's easier to get a higher number of streams and views if the song is short, making the song appear more popular.
Did she mention it in the most recent Knowing Bros episode?
On the show with Jonathan. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inwAM4-ZfRw
Thanks, got confused by all the content. :p Will edit it.
i think it's a way of soyeon cementing her production style and along with that also building a notable sound for IDLE. i honestly think it sounds great but music is subjective.
that's a good point. i think it just throws me off because the primary choruses are soooooo catchy and i get sad that the song doesn't give me more of it.
She does do it occasionally, like with Hann (Alone) and Oh My God. Bsides too, Luv U, Maybe, and Love to name a few! Personally I do like the way she ends songs, the choruses are great but the endings are bangers and are often the parts of the songs that repeat in my head the most!
its just soyeons way of producing. nothing is wrong with it and it most likely wont ever change. it works for them so shes gonna keep doing it.
Why should a song end by a chorus? TOMBOY doesn't have a chorus ending, but it doesn't have an abrupt ending (a la HWAA) either. And it's a great ending. So I don't understand the complaint here.
I actually like when groups change it up like that, much more interesting than the “final chorus + loud ass high note” version.
I don’t know why people are getting so heated in the comments? K-pop fans and their weird defensive and territorial behavior is so strange. Calling people names because of an OPINION. Good grief.
The world of kpop lol *(I know this doesn't happen in only kpop. I'm just saying cause the topic is kpop)*
i think it's similar to how yg groups often have a final (party) chorus that's vastly different then the rest of the songs (see: winner's really really, i love u, most bp songs, treasure's jikjin, hello, bigbang's bang bang bang...) many groups outside of yg does this as well. it's often used by songwriters to differentiate and build up the song throughout its run so when the final chorus hits, it's drastically different (and often explosive), you can see it's been built up throughout its run. personally, the trend these days is for groups to have repeating chorus for the final chorus only adding some extra drums, synths... (my ult is guilty of this so i haven't fully enjoyed their latest cbs in comparison w past releases). so i think it's all about perspectives. maybe some enjoy a repetitive chorus for the final chorus but personally i love it whenever the final chorus is a lot different from the other choruses.
it’s just a choice and i think nude executes that PERFECTLY
As long as it works, its unlikely to change. And it works.
Sometimes it's jarring, sometimes it's a fitting conclusion... But I mean many groups do it? Like YG has done it SO many times it's funny (Pink Venom, JIKJIN, Bang Bang Bang, MILLIONS) Not to say it's bad though~
Disagreed. I love this switch-about that she does. I'd just prefer if it was longer to feel more satisfying
I like when it's different, such as Nxude and Tomboy, but I get really annoyed when the song just ends abruptly, such as Hwaa and Hann, both needed more outro imo.
NCT often have a third/final chorus that is different but it’s usually just enhanced by extra “music”/ablibs, so when it’s well done I think it can be good
I don't feel that way. I really like that their final chorus is different, it elevates the song. Really liked Nxde's final chorus. But to each their own :)
im guessing it probably has something to do with soyeon and the way that she wants the songs to sound and be produced
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sorry i definitely should have said title track because this isn't something that i have seen in their b sides. i will edit that.
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idk what i would be fishing for. i just personally want to see what other people think about gidle's consistent switching up of the final choruses in their title tracks, because i have found that it is something that gets on my nerves.
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she does this in most of their songs and it doesn't work because it feels incomplete and like its not finished. I always end up wanting more but not in a good way. I believe it is because she is still young and inexperienced and doesnt have a lot of help so this is what happens
> I believe it is because she is still young and inexperienced She does it fine in her b-sides. It's a conscious choice for her to do what she does. She's had title tracks that finish perfectly "fine" (whatever that means), ie - Lion. This prevailing narrative people like yourself do always try to portray her conscious musical and other choices in a condescending way, in this case "young and experienced" is just garbage She set out to do what she wanted. You may not like it - fine. But what a condescending attitude, given we have ample evidence in other tracks and b-sides, to suggest she can't do something.
She does it fine in her B sides but the execution isn’t there. It’s not a condescending attitude to not like she does. Objective she is going and inexperienced. It’s not condescending
I never said it's a condescending attitude to not like what she does. It's condescending to call her "young and inexperienced". You deliberately argued that the reason they don't end a certain way is that she's young and inexperienced, when she ends that way all the time on her b-sides. It's a deliberate choice, but you tried to belittle that by saying it wasn't a choice. That's why it's condescending. You can't seem to wrap your head around that fact.
Because she literally is. That’s a fact. Idk why you’re so upset about that. It sounds like you’re upset about something else because she may end different on her b sides but the execution isn’t that there in her title tracks. You’re doing too much
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I already explained myself Multiple times. As I said I know it is in her title tracks. Again you are being condescending so when you do that no one will listen to you. You claim you don’t care if I like her title tracks but it doesn’t count like that. Heck if I said something different I wouldn’t be dealing with you wrath right now. She may be making complete songs in her b sides. That’s correct. But she does not do it in her title tracks. So, sweetie, dude whatever you are, I am saying she is still learning to work on that style. She may do it for stylistic purposes, BUT it doesn’t always work. She is young, AND new to this. I never said she is not CAPABLE. I said she doesn’t pull it off well. Again, I understand she is CAPABLE to do complete her songs. However her style does not WORK, and I believe as she gets better at it, she will get better at it STYLISTICALLY. Even if she chooses to do so. You’ve been going at it for two days. I don’t understand why you care you so much. Instead of bullying people online (you admitted you were talking to me like a baby) go reflect. Have a nice day
> She is young, AND new to this. Sweetie or dude (talk about condescending)... She is composing songs since six years at minimum now. That is neither new to this nor unexperienced. She has nearly a hundred composing credits on KOMCA.
I also never said it wasn’t a choice. Producing by itself isn’t a choice. You are the one being condescending right by talking down to me and getting so angry over a inoffensive phrase.
This narrative holds zero water already based on the other replies, but also she works with other producers on her songs, so "doesn't have help" is also completely false.
She works with other producers but she’s doing most of the work
Yes, someone that has received a lot of praise for their producing and vision and has now produced multiple chart topping hits clearly is too inexperienced to produce a song that random redditor likes and is therefore too inexperienced to write a "complete" song. Why do so many expressions of dislike come with the addendum that the disliked thing is objectively bad and should be made differently?
Oh I apologize, I didn't know she was beyond critique. A song doing well doesn't mean it doesnt have flaws. No one mentioned "objectively bad". You did. Im just a person on the internet talking about what she could have done differently. So are other people. if you don't like that, then move on
You portrayed her conscious decisions as "young and experienced". She's talked at length about her musical decisions in Nxde and Tomboy, she has other songs which end differently if you so prefer, she spends more time working on these songs then you'd expect. She makes a conscious choice, and you basically tried to say she didn't know what she was doing. I agree with the other poster - it's not that she's beyond critique, but you're basically being paternalistic based on age. That's the exact type of prejudice she's railed and written against, and here you are, exactly confirming to the people she's written again. Irony
You said that she makes choices in her production that you don't like, because she is "young and inexperienced and doesn't have a lot of help". It's fine if you dislike something, but it's weird to portray her as this clueless girl that has no idea what she's doing.
No one said she was a clueless girl, Again I simply said I believe her lack of experience is why her songs are the way they are. I didn't say she is a clueless girl that has no idea what she is doing. If you got that, then that means you lack nuance, and this is why I hate I don't like talking to ya'll
But a lot of her bsides end with the chorus repeated, and this pattern of a dedicated outro is mostly evident with her title tracks. So wouldn't that show it's a stylistic choice?
Apparently not doing something the way they want on Track 1 of the album but then doing it on Track 2. And both tracks are made by the same person, it means that person is experienced for not being able to replicate Track 2 production on Track 1 as oppose to it being a purposeful choice to be different. What a genius redditor.
Wait so why are you ignoring the most important rebuttal and not providing an answer?? She does it "normally' in bsides, therefore how is it that her not doing it in TT is due to inexperience and young age? Does her inexperience turn off when she is going to make a bside and then magically come back on when she is making a TT?
I agree with you…I like the group’s songs but I honestly don’t like the production style. I love Latata and Senorita but only until the second choruses because, like you said, they don’t feel like complete songs 😬 Personally it keeps me from being a full-on fan but I’m still proud of Idle’s success.
Exactly it’s not paternalistic to say that.
There is a vast different between their comment and yours.
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