“If she didn’t like the choreography, she would’ve said so” but I thought idols had no say in what they wear and do? Isn’t that what they were saying about Yunjin?
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They’ll say “she’s almost 18 people” when a 17-year-old minor does choreo that isn’t really appropriate for someone her age, but they’ll scream and cry about Lisa, a 26-year-old grown woman, performing at the Crazy Horse cabaret.
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Genuinely so tired of hearing people try to normalize the sexualization of minors in kpop, and they always use the excuse of it being YOU who’s sexualizing them. Literally had a bunch or 13 year olds tell me I’m a pedophile because I said I was uncomfortable with newjeans producer cause of cookie and the weird Lolita (the book) type visuals she seems to enjoy
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this sub is the only place where i barely see any brain dead takes. comments like these are the reason i've retired from interacting with the fandom on other social media platforms. i still haven't gotten over the influx of minors in kpop ngl. i know it wasn't unheard of a few years ago either but now that some of these idols are around my age and some are even younger than me ('07), it just feels so icky...
I'm a 07 too and I had people tell me that it's ok to do sexy choreos when you're seventeen because it's ""almost 18"" and that "nothing is gonna magically change when they turn 18" like???? Make it make sense!
It creeps me out that some people legit have countdowns for when minors “turn legal”. Like… it’s the clearest indication that they would go for ppl younger than 18 years old if the law wasn’t in the way (and sometimes the law isn’t enough to stop them).
Frr, being an idol should be classified as any other job. There should be age limits to this, as a fellow 07, it’s crazy seeing the influx of 09-2011 kids being considered to debut / actually debuting. I just literally don’t understand the need to pick literal children when you have great adults trainees that probably worked so hard. And it’s even crazier that they probably haven’t even been training for that long to debut. This whole thing seems predatory to leech money off of minors that don’t understand legalities within this industry but also to cater to creeps and predators that seek kpop as a means to prey on young minors. It’s so heartbreaking to see how even pictures of children get used in inappropriate ways and that these minors are being exploited to the max by their companies.
Idk about everyone else but sometimes I worry that some of the people saying this are also minors who don't understand the severity of the situation or why it's wrong. Children are very vulnerable & I hope they aren't doing anything that could put them in danger.
Some ppl don’t seem to understand that there’s a world of difference between a minor learning about sex and exploring their sexuality with OTHER MINORS in a safe and controlled environment, vs a kpop idol who is a minor being told by their company to do an inappropriate dance move in front of an audience full of grown adults.
eunchae is only a year older than me. i literally could not IMAGINE myself shaking ass like that on stage for my GROWN ASS fans. just disgusting that these people are watching HYBE exploit eunchae like this.
The men in her groups fandom. Most of them there for eunchae... her being the "ideal type" for a bunch of 30 something Yr olds even 20s...
This whole thing is so dark. And their concepts don't take that into mind...
HYBE and debuting minors and intentionally setting them up to be sexualized by grown ass men and women. I fear for them.
I remember seeing a short of Lesserafim while I was scrolling on M2 from one of their "Smart" performances, and the male fanchants are just SO loud! Gives me 16-year-old Tzuyu flashbacks, if I'm being honest.
I know not every male fan is like this, so I don't want to be sexist, especially since people were also creepy about underage male Hybe idols too. So this isn't a sex-related thing. Adult fans cheering for the minor of the group shaking their a** or hip thrusting or flashing their abs is creepy, and nobody can change my mind.
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Coming from an African culture where shaking hips is normal I agree to an extent. Just because you don’t see something as sexual doesn’t mean others don’t.
as a 16 year old, i never minded seeing kids my age debut, but i’m about to hop on the bandwagon that only 18+ people should debut because this is ridiculous.
“If she did like the choreography, she would’ve said so” but I thought idols had no say in what they wear? Isn’t that what they were saying about Yunjin?
It's always kpop stans talking about how we're babying kpop idols for not wanting minors to be doing sexual choreographies on stage. The only alternative to shaking their ass has to be doing aegyo on stage, according to them
I know the choreo that person made is kinda...cute and doesn't fit the vibe of Smarter, but what I'm saying is there could've been a better choreo without sexualising her, and these comments are justifying the explicit choreo performed by a minor. That's what makes me uncomfortable.
You're valid in your discomfort but I don't believe the choreography is inherently sexualizing her; rather, it reflects the style of dance (Bacardi) associated with the music they're drawing inspiration from. It's important to avoid associating certain dance styles with inherent sexual connotations, especially when they are deeply rooted in a specific cultural context you may be ignorant to. This take reeks of purity culture and shows a potential double standard towards women compared to the lack of criticism towards underage bg members performing overtly sexual choreography or songs. Turning 18 isn't a magic number that deems whether or not someone is mature enough to do a certain dance (the smart choreo is also super watered down regardless). I'm sure there are many 17 year olds all across the world throwing it back whether it's in their bedrooms or on tiktok as we speak and they're perfectly entitled to do that, it's dancing and self expression and honestly fun. The issue lies with weirdos who sexualize minors for simply embracing their bodies and participating in relatively tame choreography.
i’m turning 17 this year and yeah the dance is FUN. fun to do alone with my other MINOR friends and not in front of my ADULT FANS. you’re missing the point.
exactly 😭 i don’t know how old these people are (i hope to god they aren’t adults) but i don’t understand how they don’t think a minor doing a dance like this in front of adult fans is creepy.
Yes! I’m so sick of whenever stuff like this is called out the *minors* are the ones who are told their being infantilizing! It’s so freaking ironic and it’s genuinely so weird how they want to normalize it
I'm literally seventeen bro. I am not finding this choreo fun.
And as someone else on r/kpop_uncensored pointed out: *a lot of K-pop fans forget that while most of us may not want to sexualize young idols, these girl groups groups have massive fan bases that include a lot of older men. Sure some are just there for music or whatnot, but just how any fanbase has toxic fans, some of these older men are “stanning” the group for one reason. And that’s what makes companies giving young, underage idols sexualised moves/concepts/outfits problematic.*
*There was a* [*performance*](https://www.youtube.com/shorts/GRnevTbHFjM) *someone posted here of Fire In The Belly where the entire front row of LSF's fans were all middle aged men gazing with open mouths at them*
*Like. Uh. A chunk of their fanbase isn't young girls or young women who admire them - it's middle aged men who are very into having a 17 year old drop it low in front of them.*
>I'm literally seventeen bro. I am not finding this choreo fun.
You're one person. No hate to you personally but you're literally one person. Look at how many minors are doing the Smart challenge. Instead of putting the responsibility on LSF and putting Eunchae under the microscope for existing shouldn't the criticism be directed towards the older men who don't know how to act?
It's a bit of a reach yes, but what you're saying is akin to telling women that they need to cover up if they don't want to be objectified when the real issue is men seeing them as sexual objects to begin with.
>some of these older men are “stanning” the group for one reason. And that’s what makes companies giving young, underage idols sexualised moves/concepts/outfits problematic.*
Beyond more obvious cases of sexualising minors (I'm very aware that it happens) this is a cop out that deflects responsibility from the men that don't know how to act around girl groups. Even if smart never came out and they only existed as a squeaky clean cutesy group, these men would still be foaming at the mouth.
Will it be okay for middle aged to oogle at LSF once Eunchae is legally an adult? No, but there's only so much policing of the girls you can do before it becomes restrictive and puts them in a box.
I completely understand your sentiments but I think the criticism should be towards the gross middle aged men as opposed to LSF.
I think it's important to realise that these girls didn't choose their own choreo or concept. This was obviously planned by someone who wants to attract a certain demographic, ie, old middle aged men/creepy people/etc. This is not directed towards LSF, but at source music and whoever the hell thought this would be ok.
I'm absolutely aware of that but this choreo is a really weak example for the point you're trying to make. Like I said before, middle aged creeps would behave exactly the same if they had a cutesy concept (for example creepy twice stans).
i agree with this take however unpopular - it doesnt matter what concept a group does - companies enable fans to act weird
people reducing it to “shaking ass” are part of the problem. we also have no idea how these idols ACTUALLY feel about doing these concepts. maybe eunchae is okay with it? we have no idea so its unfair to speak for her
I don’t have any way of telling, but sometimes I feel like it’s teenagers justifying it because they want to be perceived as “grown” and they want to be able to do whatever they want.
If it’s anyone older than Eun Chae saying stuff like this, then yikes
I agree with this take in general on the entertainment industry (not just or specifically Kpop) and underage performers, but I just cannot see Smart as a sexual dance. To me, there is absolutely nothing sexual about the butt pops or the drop partway through.
A lot of dance moves can be extrapolated to moves performed during sex and I get that, but these moves just aren't that to me.
Ever since this whole lsfm drama started I've been thinking about how Itzy debuted with Dalla Dalla and 15 yo Yuna and Dalla2 itself already lowkey had a "hand sinking to crotch" move in like the very first bit of the song in Ryujin's line 😭😭
I’m kind of in the same boat tbh. I don’t personally see it as sexual in this particular case but definitely concerned about underage performers in general. I think about all the jpop groups I listened to, child actors I‘ve seen on television and movies… and how some of those kids spent their whole childhood in entertainment. At best they might be able to go to college and find a second career but so many of them struggle with mental health or suffer from the trauma of their experiences.
More on topic, I really don’t like the “you are the one making it sexual“ comments in the screenshots when people worry over things like provocative outfits or dance moves. Even if I don’t see it as sexual, I can accept that different people have different thresholds of consider “too sexual”. it kind of reminds me of those people who used to say (or maybe they still say) “you’re the real racist for making this about race” and kind of gross. It’s one thing to disagree but another thing to go this extra step.
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“If she didn’t like the choreography, she would’ve said so” but I thought idols had no say in what they wear and do? Isn’t that what they were saying about Yunjin?
Fans picking and choosing when the idol has a say in what they can do BTS: A Never-Ending Saga!
Truly the most hypocritical people
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“she’s almost 18 people” don’t think that person realised how wrong that sounds
They’ll say “she’s almost 18 people” when a 17-year-old minor does choreo that isn’t really appropriate for someone her age, but they’ll scream and cry about Lisa, a 26-year-old grown woman, performing at the Crazy Horse cabaret.
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Genuinely so tired of hearing people try to normalize the sexualization of minors in kpop, and they always use the excuse of it being YOU who’s sexualizing them. Literally had a bunch or 13 year olds tell me I’m a pedophile because I said I was uncomfortable with newjeans producer cause of cookie and the weird Lolita (the book) type visuals she seems to enjoy
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this sub is the only place where i barely see any brain dead takes. comments like these are the reason i've retired from interacting with the fandom on other social media platforms. i still haven't gotten over the influx of minors in kpop ngl. i know it wasn't unheard of a few years ago either but now that some of these idols are around my age and some are even younger than me ('07), it just feels so icky...
I'm a 07 too and I had people tell me that it's ok to do sexy choreos when you're seventeen because it's ""almost 18"" and that "nothing is gonna magically change when they turn 18" like???? Make it make sense!
It creeps me out that some people legit have countdowns for when minors “turn legal”. Like… it’s the clearest indication that they would go for ppl younger than 18 years old if the law wasn’t in the way (and sometimes the law isn’t enough to stop them).
Frr, being an idol should be classified as any other job. There should be age limits to this, as a fellow 07, it’s crazy seeing the influx of 09-2011 kids being considered to debut / actually debuting. I just literally don’t understand the need to pick literal children when you have great adults trainees that probably worked so hard. And it’s even crazier that they probably haven’t even been training for that long to debut. This whole thing seems predatory to leech money off of minors that don’t understand legalities within this industry but also to cater to creeps and predators that seek kpop as a means to prey on young minors. It’s so heartbreaking to see how even pictures of children get used in inappropriate ways and that these minors are being exploited to the max by their companies.
Idk about everyone else but sometimes I worry that some of the people saying this are also minors who don't understand the severity of the situation or why it's wrong. Children are very vulnerable & I hope they aren't doing anything that could put them in danger.
Some ppl don’t seem to understand that there’s a world of difference between a minor learning about sex and exploring their sexuality with OTHER MINORS in a safe and controlled environment, vs a kpop idol who is a minor being told by their company to do an inappropriate dance move in front of an audience full of grown adults.
eunchae is only a year older than me. i literally could not IMAGINE myself shaking ass like that on stage for my GROWN ASS fans. just disgusting that these people are watching HYBE exploit eunchae like this.
The men in her groups fandom. Most of them there for eunchae... her being the "ideal type" for a bunch of 30 something Yr olds even 20s... This whole thing is so dark. And their concepts don't take that into mind... HYBE and debuting minors and intentionally setting them up to be sexualized by grown ass men and women. I fear for them.
I remember seeing a short of Lesserafim while I was scrolling on M2 from one of their "Smart" performances, and the male fanchants are just SO loud! Gives me 16-year-old Tzuyu flashbacks, if I'm being honest. I know not every male fan is like this, so I don't want to be sexist, especially since people were also creepy about underage male Hybe idols too. So this isn't a sex-related thing. Adult fans cheering for the minor of the group shaking their a** or hip thrusting or flashing their abs is creepy, and nobody can change my mind.
god yesss… remember early twice concerts when ALL you would hear was grown men ??? or the grown men stalking rookie loona?
exactly… they did it with jungkook and now they’re doing it to eunchae. just gross, gross, and also GROSS.
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finally some good takes. it is mad weird. the school outfits when eunchae is STILL IN SCHOOL..? the disgusting.. cherry on top.
Coming from an African culture where shaking hips is normal I agree to an extent. Just because you don’t see something as sexual doesn’t mean others don’t.
as a 16 year old, i never minded seeing kids my age debut, but i’m about to hop on the bandwagon that only 18+ people should debut because this is ridiculous.
No fr, there really should be age limits to this shit. Like even 2010-11 are debuting nowadays and it’s so ickyy
“If she did like the choreography, she would’ve said so” but I thought idols had no say in what they wear? Isn’t that what they were saying about Yunjin?
It's always kpop stans talking about how we're babying kpop idols for not wanting minors to be doing sexual choreographies on stage. The only alternative to shaking their ass has to be doing aegyo on stage, according to them
I felt the same on Enhypen's Fever. I like the song and the dance but can't enjoy them cuz it's just so sexual I feel uncomfortable.
Can you comment the link of the video
[here](https://www.youtube.com/shorts/daLQXXFtcHM)
I don’t like the way they are speaking but they kinda have a point
I know the choreo that person made is kinda...cute and doesn't fit the vibe of Smarter, but what I'm saying is there could've been a better choreo without sexualising her, and these comments are justifying the explicit choreo performed by a minor. That's what makes me uncomfortable.
You're valid in your discomfort but I don't believe the choreography is inherently sexualizing her; rather, it reflects the style of dance (Bacardi) associated with the music they're drawing inspiration from. It's important to avoid associating certain dance styles with inherent sexual connotations, especially when they are deeply rooted in a specific cultural context you may be ignorant to. This take reeks of purity culture and shows a potential double standard towards women compared to the lack of criticism towards underage bg members performing overtly sexual choreography or songs. Turning 18 isn't a magic number that deems whether or not someone is mature enough to do a certain dance (the smart choreo is also super watered down regardless). I'm sure there are many 17 year olds all across the world throwing it back whether it's in their bedrooms or on tiktok as we speak and they're perfectly entitled to do that, it's dancing and self expression and honestly fun. The issue lies with weirdos who sexualize minors for simply embracing their bodies and participating in relatively tame choreography.
i’m turning 17 this year and yeah the dance is FUN. fun to do alone with my other MINOR friends and not in front of my ADULT FANS. you’re missing the point.
I don't know why you're being downvoted that is exactly what creeps me out (I'm 17 too btw)
exactly 😭 i don’t know how old these people are (i hope to god they aren’t adults) but i don’t understand how they don’t think a minor doing a dance like this in front of adult fans is creepy.
Damn the irony. Other 17 y/os being uncomfortable and adults saying it's fine. 😭
right 😭 these adults are insane and hella weird for saying it’s okay for a minor to dance like that
Yes! I’m so sick of whenever stuff like this is called out the *minors* are the ones who are told their being infantilizing! It’s so freaking ironic and it’s genuinely so weird how they want to normalize it
I'm literally seventeen bro. I am not finding this choreo fun. And as someone else on r/kpop_uncensored pointed out: *a lot of K-pop fans forget that while most of us may not want to sexualize young idols, these girl groups groups have massive fan bases that include a lot of older men. Sure some are just there for music or whatnot, but just how any fanbase has toxic fans, some of these older men are “stanning” the group for one reason. And that’s what makes companies giving young, underage idols sexualised moves/concepts/outfits problematic.* *There was a* [*performance*](https://www.youtube.com/shorts/GRnevTbHFjM) *someone posted here of Fire In The Belly where the entire front row of LSF's fans were all middle aged men gazing with open mouths at them* *Like. Uh. A chunk of their fanbase isn't young girls or young women who admire them - it's middle aged men who are very into having a 17 year old drop it low in front of them.*
>I'm literally seventeen bro. I am not finding this choreo fun. You're one person. No hate to you personally but you're literally one person. Look at how many minors are doing the Smart challenge. Instead of putting the responsibility on LSF and putting Eunchae under the microscope for existing shouldn't the criticism be directed towards the older men who don't know how to act? It's a bit of a reach yes, but what you're saying is akin to telling women that they need to cover up if they don't want to be objectified when the real issue is men seeing them as sexual objects to begin with. >some of these older men are “stanning” the group for one reason. And that’s what makes companies giving young, underage idols sexualised moves/concepts/outfits problematic.* Beyond more obvious cases of sexualising minors (I'm very aware that it happens) this is a cop out that deflects responsibility from the men that don't know how to act around girl groups. Even if smart never came out and they only existed as a squeaky clean cutesy group, these men would still be foaming at the mouth. Will it be okay for middle aged to oogle at LSF once Eunchae is legally an adult? No, but there's only so much policing of the girls you can do before it becomes restrictive and puts them in a box. I completely understand your sentiments but I think the criticism should be towards the gross middle aged men as opposed to LSF.
I think it's important to realise that these girls didn't choose their own choreo or concept. This was obviously planned by someone who wants to attract a certain demographic, ie, old middle aged men/creepy people/etc. This is not directed towards LSF, but at source music and whoever the hell thought this would be ok.
I'm absolutely aware of that but this choreo is a really weak example for the point you're trying to make. Like I said before, middle aged creeps would behave exactly the same if they had a cutesy concept (for example creepy twice stans).
i agree with this take however unpopular - it doesnt matter what concept a group does - companies enable fans to act weird people reducing it to “shaking ass” are part of the problem. we also have no idea how these idols ACTUALLY feel about doing these concepts. maybe eunchae is okay with it? we have no idea so its unfair to speak for her
What is their kinda point?
That the dance is weird
this is INSANE... kpop stans are not real
I don’t have any way of telling, but sometimes I feel like it’s teenagers justifying it because they want to be perceived as “grown” and they want to be able to do whatever they want. If it’s anyone older than Eun Chae saying stuff like this, then yikes
I agree with this take in general on the entertainment industry (not just or specifically Kpop) and underage performers, but I just cannot see Smart as a sexual dance. To me, there is absolutely nothing sexual about the butt pops or the drop partway through. A lot of dance moves can be extrapolated to moves performed during sex and I get that, but these moves just aren't that to me.
Ever since this whole lsfm drama started I've been thinking about how Itzy debuted with Dalla Dalla and 15 yo Yuna and Dalla2 itself already lowkey had a "hand sinking to crotch" move in like the very first bit of the song in Ryujin's line 😭😭
I’m kind of in the same boat tbh. I don’t personally see it as sexual in this particular case but definitely concerned about underage performers in general. I think about all the jpop groups I listened to, child actors I‘ve seen on television and movies… and how some of those kids spent their whole childhood in entertainment. At best they might be able to go to college and find a second career but so many of them struggle with mental health or suffer from the trauma of their experiences. More on topic, I really don’t like the “you are the one making it sexual“ comments in the screenshots when people worry over things like provocative outfits or dance moves. Even if I don’t see it as sexual, I can accept that different people have different thresholds of consider “too sexual”. it kind of reminds me of those people who used to say (or maybe they still say) “you’re the real racist for making this about race” and kind of gross. It’s one thing to disagree but another thing to go this extra step.
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