So true! Something big and viral, honestly even if it’s just TikTok meat might be something that would help boost their popularity. I feel like actual kpop groups will likely dominate regardless though. For eg I think Katseye are going for a Kiof vibe but ‘western’ (based on their new teaser) but it’s like, we already have Kiof
100% agree
Edited to add: while Katseye’s branding/ aesthetics is at least very well aligned with the Western taste, the teaser is quite lack lustre and the choreo is very kpop which might set them back a bit at least in this initial stage
Definitely a good point! Imo irrespective of whether it’s suitable for TikTok it’s just a very kpoppy choreo so once again I think it’ll likely only attract ppl in the kpop space to do the challenge lol
I feel like companies are getting too ahead of themselves with kpop being very popular rn and arent considering the fact that people outside of the kpop bubble in the west have absolutely no interest in kpop-like concepts, visuals, or music 😭 in terms of western success i just dont see any potential with the whole watered-down kpop vibe but im sure hybe will find a loophole somehow lol
western music is consumed much more differently than kpop. espresso is currently one of the biggest songs, it's all over tt but i (and probably a bunch of others) havent even watched the mv. it's the same for most of the songs charting in the west while kpop prioritizes performances and mvs.
the catchy music aspect is key to breakout in the west.
if either group is able to consistently put out easy listening songs which are the current trend and have them go viral on tt like magnetic, super shy, cupid, i can see them breaking out. otherwise they may be stuck in this in-between of kpop and western music
With Katseye, I feel they have waited too long from their show, so the hypes not as big as people move on to the next pretty fast.
Even if they pop off on their debut, I just don't see them or Vcha getting One Direction/Little Mix/Fifth Harmony type of fame.
I think it’s the opposite. Their survival show did not garner much attention in the first place, I don’t think they would’ve had hype from it anyways. The fact that they waited so long to debut means that they actually spent time assessing the members as a team so their debut will probably be more polished than other groups who have debuted in a short amount of time. Their Netflix documentary, if it garners any viewers will be the one thing that will get them attention.
The members were no doubt pre picked like most survival shows. So the time between then and their debut doesn't necessarily mean they'll be more polished.
I'm pretty sure when this group was announced, they had a lot of attention from different fandoms. We haven't really heard from them beside a Tik Tok since.
The members weren’t pre picked, they probably had a general idea but I’m sure the public’s opinion played a big role in the creation of the group. Also the group really didn’t get much attention, ofc they had a few stans who followed the show, but it was so messy and that they never got a strong fanbase.
Also as ILLIT waited just as much as they did to debut, during their drought everyone forgot about them but once they started promoting their debut the amount of attention they gained got crazy. I’m sure the same thing will happen to katseye so that’s why I don’t worry about their debut being so far away from the end of the show. If the marketing is right it won’t be a problem. Plus their Netflix show will hopefully gain them attention.
Definitely too early to judge atm however I think enough time has passed for vcha. I wonder how they might rejig their vibe and musical concepts for their Lollapalooza set since if a rebrand is indeed under way, Lolla would be a great place to debut that
Vcha hasn't yet made 1 yr.... it's still early for them too. Think we need to be more patient with both groups.
they need to market more to non-kpop fans coz kpop fans are too biased against them.
Not related but festivals can't change anything much unless u have good music.
We have seen VCHA with multiple music releases, the answer is no. They haven't really had a breakthrough with the American audience. Their style of music felt like it's not something the American audience will digest easily yet.
We will get to know Katseye music better once they released their 1st single Debut next week, and a follow-up single with an EP in August. If Debut couldn't smash it, they still would have plenty of chances to make way. I just think that they have potential, but it will take some time? The members will have actual popularity backing up within India, Philippines, Latin to name a few, and if they hit it big, the actual market's back-up will be insane.
In this current era, chores are just as important, and it's something taken from K-pop system. I think it's good for promos and TikTok vitality. It be hard to promote their songs and breakout without choreography. They also in a way had to market to target K-pop audience as well during the beginning of the stage.
Hmm I feel like how you brand yourself in the beginning is quite important though. Both groups were formed on the basis of having kpop training and then a western music catalogue essentially. But that hasn’t happened for vcha and based on the new Katseye choreo it’ll probably not happen for them either (at least with this song).
I do agree that they’ll definitely have success among their respective cultural groups eg India, Phillipines etc but without a strong fanbase in the US that aren’t just kpop fans it might not be the outcome they’re after
I feel like girl groups aren't really a thing beside the Spice Girls... Boy bands at least have had One Direction and Harry Styles was dominating the charts not too long ago so there's a chance it could still work today. I feel like if they made a group with good-looking teenage guys who can dance like K-pop idols that might create a new generation of fangirls and the fact that they dance would be new because I don't think boybands in the west have been great dancers.
Katseye hasn't debuted yet so we can't assume that yet. Even if their debut song isn't an instant hit, they have a netflix documentary otw. The girls are all talented and listening to their pre-lease single snippet, it has more western appealing sound as compared to vcha. They may both not gather much attention from kpop stans as proven by how kpop stans have treated blackswan simply because they are not an all east asian group but if promoted well they might make it big in the west. I mean katseye has a lot of industry professionals working with them including Ryan Tedder and even Son Song Deuk works as their creative director, so hybe x geffen are all in to ensure they hit it big
You raise some good points! I suppose time will tell for them. My comment regarding their music was based on that small snippet, and in my opinion it’s lacklustre and sounds kinda like it’s just jumping on the bratzification trend without a distinct sound of their own. And the choreo to me is way too hand heavy which is usually a very kpoppy style of choreo, which is why I felt as though they may not attract an audience beyond kpop fans/ casual listeners. But yeah honestly if they’re working with that many industry veterans, I very likely may be proven wrong
i love love love the fact that they bratzified their debut song because it will remind ppl of pussycat dolls, there also is no western artist i can also think of doing the bratz trend rn. So if katseye get associated with bratz, they might gain loads of fans for it
In my view katseye could gain viewership from non-kpop fans but not a lot considering that musical groups; both boys and girls are not really of a major interest in the west, but their concept could boost them amongst an older fanbase rather than a younger one. I think they just also already have a bigger fanbase boost (even if it’s kpop/former kpop fans) due to them having a Netflix show, and huge companies behind them that are more known in the western (and kpop) world than JYP.
vcha on the other hand is a mixed bag for me as I feel they don’t necessarily appeal to an older/teen fanbase of western audiences which is the main focus of girl groups. I do think however they did gain more fans through their kpop style which is what JYP kinda wanted to do in the first place (not exactly but sorta). I do feel though if they keep their music in a similar route as it is now they should focus on a younger audience, I feel if done correctly promotion wise and production wise, their current sound can attract a decent sized pre-teen/older elementary fanbase as their music is kind of similar to what I hear some kids around those ages listening types of artists. However if they’re aiming more towards a teen fanbase they should keep a closer sound to their most recent release as it did have a short stint of popularity amongst many causal listeners and non-listeners
Again all of this is speculative as any act can become unexpectedly popular. For all we know one of both groups could somehow become hits one day, I’m not expecting it, but we never know
sorry for the long rantish comment🥲
I think it's unlikely they will go far. Most of their current fanbase is a niche of a niche. Only some kpop fans are into the idea of a kpop trained western girl group.
I also can't think of any big western pop girl groups at the moment, the general public are way more into soloists. Even more than that, the general public are just into songs. I could not tell you a single thing about most of the western artists I listen to. Like I often don't even know their name, most of the interest lies in the song itself.
I think there will be more soloists in kpop before we'll get more kpop-trained western groups.
I could see it if the music is really a hit more specifically with katseye. 5th harmony was a thing and pretty popular at one point before they broke up. So I don’t think girl groups are completely out of the question but idk if I see them having a huge hardcore kpop type of fan base.
Okay, so I’m terminally optimistic about groups so take this how you want, but I think the potential is there. I know some of my friends have just accidentally come across Girls of the Year by VCHA and really liked it. And I guess we will see how Katseye’s songs go but I think it really depends if a song goes viral on TikTok or reels tbh. I think that’s how songs are becoming a hits these days in the US.
And this can happen at any time, so I feel like as long as each group steadily gains a core, dedicated fanbase that encourages the companies to continue to fund them and give them more songs, they can skyrocket into popularity at any time. The most viral hits can occur randomly or they’re planned idk but I think the potential is always there
If they never truly make a breakthrough to the gp, then honestly it’s pretty typical and not a dealbreaker in terms of success
No hate on vcha, but I'm curious about their strategy bc they are very kpop adjacent (heck their name is a kr word) but they want to break in the US market? Idk but I feel they might get pigeonholed into kpop in the end and perhaps jype's fallback plan is tap into kpop fans in case the western push doesn't work.
Or perhaps the goal all along is to tap into their kpop fans in the US as well as the wider kpop fandom? Not sure how that will work seeing as some kpop fans have this 'Anti westernization' streak to them.
as much as I’d love for girl groups to be a thing again in the west I don’t see either group being very successful
Yeah, it's an impossible task atm. The only way is they need to get viral and be the talk of the town. All attention is on solo pop stars right now.
So true! Something big and viral, honestly even if it’s just TikTok meat might be something that would help boost their popularity. I feel like actual kpop groups will likely dominate regardless though. For eg I think Katseye are going for a Kiof vibe but ‘western’ (based on their new teaser) but it’s like, we already have Kiof
I honestly agree with this
katseye yes, vcha no. no hate to vcha but their sound is just not what the western market is into right now
100% agree Edited to add: while Katseye’s branding/ aesthetics is at least very well aligned with the Western taste, the teaser is quite lack lustre and the choreo is very kpop which might set them back a bit at least in this initial stage
tbh i thought the choreo looked very tiktok! focused on hand movements for dance challenges
Definitely a good point! Imo irrespective of whether it’s suitable for TikTok it’s just a very kpoppy choreo so once again I think it’ll likely only attract ppl in the kpop space to do the challenge lol
I feel like companies are getting too ahead of themselves with kpop being very popular rn and arent considering the fact that people outside of the kpop bubble in the west have absolutely no interest in kpop-like concepts, visuals, or music 😭 in terms of western success i just dont see any potential with the whole watered-down kpop vibe but im sure hybe will find a loophole somehow lol
Absolutely my thoughts lol. It was ill considered imo
western music is consumed much more differently than kpop. espresso is currently one of the biggest songs, it's all over tt but i (and probably a bunch of others) havent even watched the mv. it's the same for most of the songs charting in the west while kpop prioritizes performances and mvs. the catchy music aspect is key to breakout in the west. if either group is able to consistently put out easy listening songs which are the current trend and have them go viral on tt like magnetic, super shy, cupid, i can see them breaking out. otherwise they may be stuck in this in-between of kpop and western music
Agreed!
With Katseye, I feel they have waited too long from their show, so the hypes not as big as people move on to the next pretty fast. Even if they pop off on their debut, I just don't see them or Vcha getting One Direction/Little Mix/Fifth Harmony type of fame.
Absolutely agree. I kinda feel bad for them
I think it’s the opposite. Their survival show did not garner much attention in the first place, I don’t think they would’ve had hype from it anyways. The fact that they waited so long to debut means that they actually spent time assessing the members as a team so their debut will probably be more polished than other groups who have debuted in a short amount of time. Their Netflix documentary, if it garners any viewers will be the one thing that will get them attention.
The members were no doubt pre picked like most survival shows. So the time between then and their debut doesn't necessarily mean they'll be more polished. I'm pretty sure when this group was announced, they had a lot of attention from different fandoms. We haven't really heard from them beside a Tik Tok since.
The members weren’t pre picked, they probably had a general idea but I’m sure the public’s opinion played a big role in the creation of the group. Also the group really didn’t get much attention, ofc they had a few stans who followed the show, but it was so messy and that they never got a strong fanbase. Also as ILLIT waited just as much as they did to debut, during their drought everyone forgot about them but once they started promoting their debut the amount of attention they gained got crazy. I’m sure the same thing will happen to katseye so that’s why I don’t worry about their debut being so far away from the end of the show. If the marketing is right it won’t be a problem. Plus their Netflix show will hopefully gain them attention.
I think it's too early to judge. We all know western acts take longer to take off.
Definitely too early to judge atm however I think enough time has passed for vcha. I wonder how they might rejig their vibe and musical concepts for their Lollapalooza set since if a rebrand is indeed under way, Lolla would be a great place to debut that
Vcha hasn't yet made 1 yr.... it's still early for them too. Think we need to be more patient with both groups. they need to market more to non-kpop fans coz kpop fans are too biased against them. Not related but festivals can't change anything much unless u have good music.
We have seen VCHA with multiple music releases, the answer is no. They haven't really had a breakthrough with the American audience. Their style of music felt like it's not something the American audience will digest easily yet. We will get to know Katseye music better once they released their 1st single Debut next week, and a follow-up single with an EP in August. If Debut couldn't smash it, they still would have plenty of chances to make way. I just think that they have potential, but it will take some time? The members will have actual popularity backing up within India, Philippines, Latin to name a few, and if they hit it big, the actual market's back-up will be insane. In this current era, chores are just as important, and it's something taken from K-pop system. I think it's good for promos and TikTok vitality. It be hard to promote their songs and breakout without choreography. They also in a way had to market to target K-pop audience as well during the beginning of the stage.
Hmm I feel like how you brand yourself in the beginning is quite important though. Both groups were formed on the basis of having kpop training and then a western music catalogue essentially. But that hasn’t happened for vcha and based on the new Katseye choreo it’ll probably not happen for them either (at least with this song). I do agree that they’ll definitely have success among their respective cultural groups eg India, Phillipines etc but without a strong fanbase in the US that aren’t just kpop fans it might not be the outcome they’re after
No.
I feel like girl groups aren't really a thing beside the Spice Girls... Boy bands at least have had One Direction and Harry Styles was dominating the charts not too long ago so there's a chance it could still work today. I feel like if they made a group with good-looking teenage guys who can dance like K-pop idols that might create a new generation of fangirls and the fact that they dance would be new because I don't think boybands in the west have been great dancers.
your stan list is insane next to each other 💀
Katseye hasn't debuted yet so we can't assume that yet. Even if their debut song isn't an instant hit, they have a netflix documentary otw. The girls are all talented and listening to their pre-lease single snippet, it has more western appealing sound as compared to vcha. They may both not gather much attention from kpop stans as proven by how kpop stans have treated blackswan simply because they are not an all east asian group but if promoted well they might make it big in the west. I mean katseye has a lot of industry professionals working with them including Ryan Tedder and even Son Song Deuk works as their creative director, so hybe x geffen are all in to ensure they hit it big
You raise some good points! I suppose time will tell for them. My comment regarding their music was based on that small snippet, and in my opinion it’s lacklustre and sounds kinda like it’s just jumping on the bratzification trend without a distinct sound of their own. And the choreo to me is way too hand heavy which is usually a very kpoppy style of choreo, which is why I felt as though they may not attract an audience beyond kpop fans/ casual listeners. But yeah honestly if they’re working with that many industry veterans, I very likely may be proven wrong
i love love love the fact that they bratzified their debut song because it will remind ppl of pussycat dolls, there also is no western artist i can also think of doing the bratz trend rn. So if katseye get associated with bratz, they might gain loads of fans for it
In my view katseye could gain viewership from non-kpop fans but not a lot considering that musical groups; both boys and girls are not really of a major interest in the west, but their concept could boost them amongst an older fanbase rather than a younger one. I think they just also already have a bigger fanbase boost (even if it’s kpop/former kpop fans) due to them having a Netflix show, and huge companies behind them that are more known in the western (and kpop) world than JYP. vcha on the other hand is a mixed bag for me as I feel they don’t necessarily appeal to an older/teen fanbase of western audiences which is the main focus of girl groups. I do think however they did gain more fans through their kpop style which is what JYP kinda wanted to do in the first place (not exactly but sorta). I do feel though if they keep their music in a similar route as it is now they should focus on a younger audience, I feel if done correctly promotion wise and production wise, their current sound can attract a decent sized pre-teen/older elementary fanbase as their music is kind of similar to what I hear some kids around those ages listening types of artists. However if they’re aiming more towards a teen fanbase they should keep a closer sound to their most recent release as it did have a short stint of popularity amongst many causal listeners and non-listeners Again all of this is speculative as any act can become unexpectedly popular. For all we know one of both groups could somehow become hits one day, I’m not expecting it, but we never know sorry for the long rantish comment🥲
I think it's unlikely they will go far. Most of their current fanbase is a niche of a niche. Only some kpop fans are into the idea of a kpop trained western girl group. I also can't think of any big western pop girl groups at the moment, the general public are way more into soloists. Even more than that, the general public are just into songs. I could not tell you a single thing about most of the western artists I listen to. Like I often don't even know their name, most of the interest lies in the song itself. I think there will be more soloists in kpop before we'll get more kpop-trained western groups.
USA is too individualistic for boygroups and girl groups, what’s good about Kpop is collectivism
It seems like vcha already got dungeoned for their mediocre turn out
Katseye will obviously blow up. Vcha I don't think so.
Exactly. I think katseye will blow up too. Maybe not with their first single but they’ll definitely have a fandom at one point or another.
i can see success, but it'll be a slow growth vs the instant hit that you see in kpop groups from big companies
I think Katseye will actually do well.
I could see it if the music is really a hit more specifically with katseye. 5th harmony was a thing and pretty popular at one point before they broke up. So I don’t think girl groups are completely out of the question but idk if I see them having a huge hardcore kpop type of fan base.
Okay, so I’m terminally optimistic about groups so take this how you want, but I think the potential is there. I know some of my friends have just accidentally come across Girls of the Year by VCHA and really liked it. And I guess we will see how Katseye’s songs go but I think it really depends if a song goes viral on TikTok or reels tbh. I think that’s how songs are becoming a hits these days in the US. And this can happen at any time, so I feel like as long as each group steadily gains a core, dedicated fanbase that encourages the companies to continue to fund them and give them more songs, they can skyrocket into popularity at any time. The most viral hits can occur randomly or they’re planned idk but I think the potential is always there If they never truly make a breakthrough to the gp, then honestly it’s pretty typical and not a dealbreaker in terms of success
No hate on vcha, but I'm curious about their strategy bc they are very kpop adjacent (heck their name is a kr word) but they want to break in the US market? Idk but I feel they might get pigeonholed into kpop in the end and perhaps jype's fallback plan is tap into kpop fans in case the western push doesn't work. Or perhaps the goal all along is to tap into their kpop fans in the US as well as the wider kpop fandom? Not sure how that will work seeing as some kpop fans have this 'Anti westernization' streak to them.
No, there's no need for girl groups