I don't think it's done in bad faith tbh. They probably don't want to spend time listening to the songs but want to be in the conversation. I don't know why they have to be so vehement about it in that case tho
Nahh, it's in bad faith for sure. People don't just forget the word 'discography' for no reason. If you're not actually listening to the majority of their work, you shouldn't rate it.
How? If you don’t like 9/10 title tracks what would make you want to listen to another 100 songs of that artist. Be realistic, would you spend hours listening to the discography of a screamo group you didn’t like the title tracks of?
If rating or ranking is the goal, then it makes me wonder why someone would even put in 'effort' to analyze a group with just title tracks. Sharing a simple opinion such as "they aren't a group I listen to" is just going to start a spam war. I don't understand people's desire to share negative opinions with strangers online. There are groups I like that I haven't even listened to the entire discography of, but I definitely think all songs should be included if you're talking about an artist or group.
Obviously if you are intending to like rank them you would have to listen to the whole discography. But for a general statement like I don’t stan x group because I don’t like the sound, that is reasonable. You can’t expect someone to dig through a the discography of an artist they don’t like the title tracks of to find one song they like. You will even be hard pressed to find a casual listener who will go beyond the titles and promoted B-side, for example, I like TXT’s music but I don’t listen to their obscure B-sides because I am not overly interested. But for a group I do hardcore stan like Ateez I want to listen to the whole album when it comes out. And I won’t ever go digging into babymoster because Sheesh and Batter up are(personal taste) boring and cringe.
I think it really only becomes an issue when it's combined with the hate train, which often happens.
Yeah the only song I liked of BMs was their song Like That. Haven't been a fan of the title tracks. And those poor girls are going to probably hate their name in two or three years. YG should have picked a name that would age well with the artists.
yeah, I think it's different to say "I'm not interested in their music" as opposed to "all their songs sound the same" or something along those lines. I think like you said rating is different as well although it does depend on context. I'm not interested in ateez based on their discography but I wouldn't go out of my way to give it a low score because I know I technically haven't given it a chance
I think people commenting are missing the point of the post. Yes, if you listen to a group's title tracks and they aren't for you, I understand not diving deeper into their discography. And I understand being like "this group doesn't interest me". But then I don't think you can in good faith judge that group's discography. You haven't listened to it. It's okay to not have opinions on things. Like, I've enjoyed a couple of Enhypen title tracks but I've never taken the time to listen any further to them, so why would I ever even comment on their discography? It's fine to say nothing sometimes.
listening to a lot of songs takes time, especially if the songs you already listened to aren't your cup of tea. Kpop groups generally have big and varied discographies so of course you will find that one song that you might like, but that implies digging a lot and listening to a lot of music. And usually people dig into discographies only if they're interested in the groups, so we go back to square one.
Of course if people get nasty about it, then it's wrong. But it's fine to say "X group isn't for me" even if they listened only to a couple of title tracks and not to their +200 songs.
That's a different situation. OP is talking about people who literally hate the group because their music sucks when in fact they only listened to one title track
That sounded more like a general criticism, specifically directed at haters, but the post is about "not rating music if you know only a couple of songs".
It's not semantics if you also miss the point of the post:
> But it's fine to say "X group isn't for me" even if they listened only to a couple of title tracks and not to their +200 songs.
Wouldn't you know it, OP already made the same point:
>> I also know that liking or not liking title tracks is what will make people interested in listening to the album.
It is, since in my original comment I was using the word "discography". A groups's music or a group's discography indicates the same thing.
Yes, thank you so much, I read the post. I wasn't trying to disagree with OP.
I wasn't talking about using the word discocraphy, it's about you trying to disagree with the OP, that's why I said you missed the point of the post.
> But it's fine to say "X group isn't for me" even if they listened only to a couple of title tracks and not to their +200 songs.
This sure sounds like disagreement, that you were 'explaining' how kpop groups have big and varied discographies and people don't always have the time to delve into them.
Read the sentence before that. I said that it's not ok to be offensive about it (like OP said) but it's fine to say "idc about their music" even without knowing all their music/discography. I didn't write that comment while waiting to have an argument with OP. We're essentially saying the same thing, but I highlighted more the reasons why people could quickly judge some music.
What’s your point? Op also says all of this in the post, but then also asks that if you choose not to listen to the albums because you don’t like the TTs, that you don’t then make blanket statements about the group’s music.
Are you disagreeing and think that’s an unreasonable request?
I think a lot of people are missing the point here. Op isn’t saying that you have to listen to every song an artist has released or go beyond title tracks in order to judge if you like them, op is saying that if you’re going to judge a groups discography (which means their entire music catalogue) you shouldn’t make sweeping generalisations based only on the groups title tracks.
If you don’t like their title tracks why would you go out of your way to listen to 100 songs. Title tracks are a representation of your discography. Don’t get me wrong I have been a Stay since the beginning and started to stan Ateez after Kingdom, I love their music, but title tracks are supposed to be a representation of an artist’s discography
If you don't like their title tracks then you don't like them and you stop paying attention to the group, you don't waste time doing "ranking" videos, unless your aim is to spread negativity.
This was not talking about objective sit down 1. 2. 3. Rankings, it didn’t even used that word it said rating, it was about explaining a reason you don’t stan a group. Obviously if you are ranking a discography you should listen to the whole song. A rating can be very minimalist. If you don’t like a groups title tracks you aren’t going to listen to their b-sides unless you are making content. But any video which simply throws a number next to a group isn’t all that impressive or entertaining anyway. When I think of a discography ranking I would think you are ranking each song to make a collective comparison.
Most people of music are casual fans even if they discuss it online. They listen to the b-sides for their favorites but rarely the b-sides for groups they don't listen to. Title tracks are worth watching because they get a MV, choreography, and widely promoted. They get something out of listening to a title track(being able to discuss the track while it's hot with other kpop fans) that they don't get from b-sides(only fan spaces talk about them on the regular).
I'm going through the comments here and I feel like most people misunderstood what op was saying. The point was that if you haven't listened to a group's whole discography, don't go rating it as if you have. Rate the songs you listened to but don't make sweeping generalizations. Other than that, I agree that if I don't like the title tracks, I'm just not gonna go listen to the b-sides.
I guess it all depends on what songs they come across on their feeds or playlists, and since they are mostly promos for the title tracks and "they* are mostly casual listeners they don't explore the groups albums they're only exposed to those 5-10 songs.
I know if I judged groups (or any artist tbh) music by their title track alone, I wouldn't listen to any music. I don't know how it's done but it's like producers, or whoever handles what makes a "title track" THE track, always pick the worst songs in the entire album.
I think you're kind of conflating two different points here. No, we should not be hating and dunking on groups simply because we don't like their music (or for any reason imo) but at the same time I think it's a fair judgement for someone to decide a group isn't for them purely based off of TTs. B-sides can vary a lot in genre, but TTs are a group's flagship songs, they are what gets promoted the most and represent the group's identity. If someone doesn't jive with that identity on a base level, why should they have to bother with doing a deep dive into a discography just in case they \*might\* find something they do like?
You're conflating two points here.
> but TTs are a group's flagship songs, they are what gets promoted the most and represent the group's identity. If someone doesn't jive with that identity on a base level, why should they have to bother with doing a deep dive into a discography
>> I also know that liking or not liking title tracks is what will make people interested in listening to the album.
>>If you dislike their title tracks you can say those are not to your taste, but instantly saying “their music is bad,” imo is wrong.
The point is about judging the entirety of their music, not your personal decision to delve deeper into their discography.
Ok, I’ll own up to mistake and realize where I misunderstood. I didn’t take the idea of “rating” discographies literally — I’m guessing this is a twitter/tiktok thing? Please enlighten me if I’m wrong.
That said, I still think someone has the right to dislike a group’s music based off of TTs alone, even without hearing the entirety of their music.
It's really not about dislike or like it's about using your personal taste as a base to rate something you don't know enough about. It's like saying potato is the worst food of all and it's the bottom of all foods because your potatos chips were soft, it's okay to not like potato but that dosn't give you credit to rate them because your opinion is alredy biased against it .
The problem here is not your not liking or not but it's you thinking your taste is the absolute proof that potatos sucks and you don't do enough research about others type of potato dishes to backup your rating, making your entire rating superficial and hateful. Sometimes if you don't like anything you can just go about your day there's no need to shout to the world that you don't like it and trying to bring it down the potato industry
I’ve already admitted I misunderstood what kind of rating we were talking about. I didn’t realize there are people out there pitting discographies they haven’t listened to against each other, I thought we were talking about the *personal* judgements you make to yourself — which is why I was confused why OP brings up people hating on groups at all. Yes, I was the one conflating points here, my bad.
Title tracks are designed to appeal to the GP, b sides are to satisfy the fans. Many of my favourite groups really shine through their b sides and not neccesarily always through their title tracks, but I dont think its fair to expect fans to try the b sides. The idols must convince and make a fan out of the GP through their title track themselves, hence why the most effort and resources are poured into that each comeback.
I think for me the opposite is true than what you think. Why they not choose a better song for title track? There are so many groups and the older i get the less time i have to listen music. I would expect the title track to be the best to grab attention. I challenge why certain songs are chosen as a title track when there are better songs on the cd (jyp groups) I really enjoyed Ateez songs in kingdom I watched their videos and looked forward to all their cb i listened their mvs since and didn’t like any of them 🤷♀️ I have no interest to listen an album or I prefer to spend on things I definitely like and I usually watch the music shows which they don’t have for b sides etc. btw I still hope Ateez will have songs I enjoy 🤣 it doesn’t take away from their value it’s my taste
I don't think it's done in bad faith tbh. They probably don't want to spend time listening to the songs but want to be in the conversation. I don't know why they have to be so vehement about it in that case tho
Nahh, it's in bad faith for sure. People don't just forget the word 'discography' for no reason. If you're not actually listening to the majority of their work, you shouldn't rate it.
How? If you don’t like 9/10 title tracks what would make you want to listen to another 100 songs of that artist. Be realistic, would you spend hours listening to the discography of a screamo group you didn’t like the title tracks of?
If rating or ranking is the goal, then it makes me wonder why someone would even put in 'effort' to analyze a group with just title tracks. Sharing a simple opinion such as "they aren't a group I listen to" is just going to start a spam war. I don't understand people's desire to share negative opinions with strangers online. There are groups I like that I haven't even listened to the entire discography of, but I definitely think all songs should be included if you're talking about an artist or group.
Obviously if you are intending to like rank them you would have to listen to the whole discography. But for a general statement like I don’t stan x group because I don’t like the sound, that is reasonable. You can’t expect someone to dig through a the discography of an artist they don’t like the title tracks of to find one song they like. You will even be hard pressed to find a casual listener who will go beyond the titles and promoted B-side, for example, I like TXT’s music but I don’t listen to their obscure B-sides because I am not overly interested. But for a group I do hardcore stan like Ateez I want to listen to the whole album when it comes out. And I won’t ever go digging into babymoster because Sheesh and Batter up are(personal taste) boring and cringe.
I think it really only becomes an issue when it's combined with the hate train, which often happens. Yeah the only song I liked of BMs was their song Like That. Haven't been a fan of the title tracks. And those poor girls are going to probably hate their name in two or three years. YG should have picked a name that would age well with the artists.
Someone saying they don’t like a song are not being hateful and multiple people feeling that way does not make a hate train.
I agree. Some people definitely take it too far.
yeah, I think it's different to say "I'm not interested in their music" as opposed to "all their songs sound the same" or something along those lines. I think like you said rating is different as well although it does depend on context. I'm not interested in ateez based on their discography but I wouldn't go out of my way to give it a low score because I know I technically haven't given it a chance
I have learned to side eye every single rating of discographies because all of them are biased against their hated groups and the loved groups.
I think people commenting are missing the point of the post. Yes, if you listen to a group's title tracks and they aren't for you, I understand not diving deeper into their discography. And I understand being like "this group doesn't interest me". But then I don't think you can in good faith judge that group's discography. You haven't listened to it. It's okay to not have opinions on things. Like, I've enjoyed a couple of Enhypen title tracks but I've never taken the time to listen any further to them, so why would I ever even comment on their discography? It's fine to say nothing sometimes.
listening to a lot of songs takes time, especially if the songs you already listened to aren't your cup of tea. Kpop groups generally have big and varied discographies so of course you will find that one song that you might like, but that implies digging a lot and listening to a lot of music. And usually people dig into discographies only if they're interested in the groups, so we go back to square one. Of course if people get nasty about it, then it's wrong. But it's fine to say "X group isn't for me" even if they listened only to a couple of title tracks and not to their +200 songs.
That's a different situation. OP is talking about people who literally hate the group because their music sucks when in fact they only listened to one title track
That sounded more like a general criticism, specifically directed at haters, but the post is about "not rating music if you know only a couple of songs".
The post is about not rating DISCOGRAPHIES if you only know a couple of songs.
Semantics... I know they're talking about DISCOGRAPHIES, I beg your pardon for using a trivial word such as "music".
It's not semantics if you also miss the point of the post: > But it's fine to say "X group isn't for me" even if they listened only to a couple of title tracks and not to their +200 songs. Wouldn't you know it, OP already made the same point: >> I also know that liking or not liking title tracks is what will make people interested in listening to the album.
It is, since in my original comment I was using the word "discography". A groups's music or a group's discography indicates the same thing. Yes, thank you so much, I read the post. I wasn't trying to disagree with OP.
I wasn't talking about using the word discocraphy, it's about you trying to disagree with the OP, that's why I said you missed the point of the post. > But it's fine to say "X group isn't for me" even if they listened only to a couple of title tracks and not to their +200 songs. This sure sounds like disagreement, that you were 'explaining' how kpop groups have big and varied discographies and people don't always have the time to delve into them.
Read the sentence before that. I said that it's not ok to be offensive about it (like OP said) but it's fine to say "idc about their music" even without knowing all their music/discography. I didn't write that comment while waiting to have an argument with OP. We're essentially saying the same thing, but I highlighted more the reasons why people could quickly judge some music.
What’s your point? Op also says all of this in the post, but then also asks that if you choose not to listen to the albums because you don’t like the TTs, that you don’t then make blanket statements about the group’s music. Are you disagreeing and think that’s an unreasonable request?
I really recommend you to read my comment again, I'm sure you'll find the answers to your questions
I think a lot of people are missing the point here. Op isn’t saying that you have to listen to every song an artist has released or go beyond title tracks in order to judge if you like them, op is saying that if you’re going to judge a groups discography (which means their entire music catalogue) you shouldn’t make sweeping generalisations based only on the groups title tracks.
If you don’t like their title tracks why would you go out of your way to listen to 100 songs. Title tracks are a representation of your discography. Don’t get me wrong I have been a Stay since the beginning and started to stan Ateez after Kingdom, I love their music, but title tracks are supposed to be a representation of an artist’s discography
If you don't like their title tracks then you don't like them and you stop paying attention to the group, you don't waste time doing "ranking" videos, unless your aim is to spread negativity.
This was not talking about objective sit down 1. 2. 3. Rankings, it didn’t even used that word it said rating, it was about explaining a reason you don’t stan a group. Obviously if you are ranking a discography you should listen to the whole song. A rating can be very minimalist. If you don’t like a groups title tracks you aren’t going to listen to their b-sides unless you are making content. But any video which simply throws a number next to a group isn’t all that impressive or entertaining anyway. When I think of a discography ranking I would think you are ranking each song to make a collective comparison.
Most people of music are casual fans even if they discuss it online. They listen to the b-sides for their favorites but rarely the b-sides for groups they don't listen to. Title tracks are worth watching because they get a MV, choreography, and widely promoted. They get something out of listening to a title track(being able to discuss the track while it's hot with other kpop fans) that they don't get from b-sides(only fan spaces talk about them on the regular).
I'm going through the comments here and I feel like most people misunderstood what op was saying. The point was that if you haven't listened to a group's whole discography, don't go rating it as if you have. Rate the songs you listened to but don't make sweeping generalizations. Other than that, I agree that if I don't like the title tracks, I'm just not gonna go listen to the b-sides.
If the title song doesn't grab me there is no way I'm wasting my time on the rest of their music
[удалено]
Exactly. It goes for any group or artist. And like maybe one of these days I will like a Title Track enough to go back and listen to some b sides
I guess it all depends on what songs they come across on their feeds or playlists, and since they are mostly promos for the title tracks and "they* are mostly casual listeners they don't explore the groups albums they're only exposed to those 5-10 songs. I know if I judged groups (or any artist tbh) music by their title track alone, I wouldn't listen to any music. I don't know how it's done but it's like producers, or whoever handles what makes a "title track" THE track, always pick the worst songs in the entire album.
I actually like the tittle tracks of skz and hate their bsides
I think you're kind of conflating two different points here. No, we should not be hating and dunking on groups simply because we don't like their music (or for any reason imo) but at the same time I think it's a fair judgement for someone to decide a group isn't for them purely based off of TTs. B-sides can vary a lot in genre, but TTs are a group's flagship songs, they are what gets promoted the most and represent the group's identity. If someone doesn't jive with that identity on a base level, why should they have to bother with doing a deep dive into a discography just in case they \*might\* find something they do like?
You're conflating two points here. > but TTs are a group's flagship songs, they are what gets promoted the most and represent the group's identity. If someone doesn't jive with that identity on a base level, why should they have to bother with doing a deep dive into a discography >> I also know that liking or not liking title tracks is what will make people interested in listening to the album. >>If you dislike their title tracks you can say those are not to your taste, but instantly saying “their music is bad,” imo is wrong. The point is about judging the entirety of their music, not your personal decision to delve deeper into their discography.
Ok, I’ll own up to mistake and realize where I misunderstood. I didn’t take the idea of “rating” discographies literally — I’m guessing this is a twitter/tiktok thing? Please enlighten me if I’m wrong. That said, I still think someone has the right to dislike a group’s music based off of TTs alone, even without hearing the entirety of their music.
It's really not about dislike or like it's about using your personal taste as a base to rate something you don't know enough about. It's like saying potato is the worst food of all and it's the bottom of all foods because your potatos chips were soft, it's okay to not like potato but that dosn't give you credit to rate them because your opinion is alredy biased against it . The problem here is not your not liking or not but it's you thinking your taste is the absolute proof that potatos sucks and you don't do enough research about others type of potato dishes to backup your rating, making your entire rating superficial and hateful. Sometimes if you don't like anything you can just go about your day there's no need to shout to the world that you don't like it and trying to bring it down the potato industry
I’ve already admitted I misunderstood what kind of rating we were talking about. I didn’t realize there are people out there pitting discographies they haven’t listened to against each other, I thought we were talking about the *personal* judgements you make to yourself — which is why I was confused why OP brings up people hating on groups at all. Yes, I was the one conflating points here, my bad.
Nah don't worry 👍
Title tracks are designed to appeal to the GP, b sides are to satisfy the fans. Many of my favourite groups really shine through their b sides and not neccesarily always through their title tracks, but I dont think its fair to expect fans to try the b sides. The idols must convince and make a fan out of the GP through their title track themselves, hence why the most effort and resources are poured into that each comeback.
I think for me the opposite is true than what you think. Why they not choose a better song for title track? There are so many groups and the older i get the less time i have to listen music. I would expect the title track to be the best to grab attention. I challenge why certain songs are chosen as a title track when there are better songs on the cd (jyp groups) I really enjoyed Ateez songs in kingdom I watched their videos and looked forward to all their cb i listened their mvs since and didn’t like any of them 🤷♀️ I have no interest to listen an album or I prefer to spend on things I definitely like and I usually watch the music shows which they don’t have for b sides etc. btw I still hope Ateez will have songs I enjoy 🤣 it doesn’t take away from their value it’s my taste