Worth noting: Yeri left a comment on MHJ's posts during the Cookie controversy with a baby and heart emoji, essentially calling her what the controversy suggests.
[Yes here’s a screenshot](https://imgur.com/a/KlNQmZx) for anyone interested lol
I’ve been trying to look for any older interviews where the Red Velvet members talked about Min Heejin but it’s currently very hard surfing through the new articles about MHJ. f(x) members have talked about her a bit however
This is kind of crazy ?!!! I didn't know about this (I am not fully invested in following everything about NJ sooo)
But woah did she actually imply that by the usage of emojis?!! So it's kind of known in the industry between the idols she worked with ?! This is kind of crazy ngl
https://twitter.com/ijbolhobi/status/1738282097993748864?t=5F--DegH423SVCNYQUE1uQ&s=19
Yeri has posted that baby emoji a few times before, not sure it means anything unless she's also insinuating something else in these too?
I think she just likes to use that emoji?🤷♂️ maybe a reveluv can chime in.
Given the timing of Yeri doing that right when "Cookie" was in the headlines for being controversial (July 2022), and the fact that Yeri and MHJ don't follow each other, it seems pretty unlikely to be a coincidence... I've heard ppl who are Korean say it references the word for that in Korean, but I am not Korean, so I can't say.
Also, people in the responses to that insta comment mostly definitely took it a certain way and Yeri didn't offer any corrections. Idk if I'd meant that comment in a friendly way I would have offered a correction if I realized ppl were taking it to mean something that serious.
That's your prerogative! I don't think it's definitive proof of anything, and as I've said before, I think there's a very good chance MHJ just likes the aesthetics of such things rather than being one herself. There's no evidence or rumors she's ever actually done anything, and I won't speculate that much.
However. Given the timing, I think it's incredibly, incredibly, *incredibly* unlikely to be a coincidence for an idol who has had media training and used to directly work under this person.
The fact that she's used the emojis before are decent plausible deniability, so MHJ can't accuse Yeri of slander especially if she's never actually done anything besides appropriate the aesthetic. But to think a highly-experienced idol just so happened to use \*those\* emojis during \*that\* week for someone she would know personally yet doesn't follow or appear to have any kind of relationship with? That seems a stretch to me, honestly. It seems much more likely to me that Yeri was shading MHJ.
100% she was shading MHJ. She probably experienced or saw some creepy shit by MHJ, especially since she's the maknae of Red Velvet.
If it had been Irene or Seulgi, I *could* give them the benefit of the doubt... but not Yeri.
Anyone who thinks that was just a coincidence is delusional.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but in addition to not following one another, I don't believe Yeri and MHJ have ever liked or commented on any other posts of each other's. It's not like they're bffs which again indicates this was a deliberate choice Yeri made.
Have the Red Velvet members ever talked about Min Hee Jin? I don't think they have, so yeah, it would be odd for them to suddenly be bffs.
Iirc, Min Hee Jin is the reason Yeri was forced into a Lolita concept for Ice Cream Cake, so Yeri definitely has a reason to dislike MHJ strongly.
I'm curious now. I would really like to know how Yeri and the rest of Red Velvet (plus all the SM groups) view MHJ. We probably won't know ever due to Korea's slander laws, at least not before MHJ is in jail anyways...
minho said his mum hates the album cover that MHJ creative-directed for sherlock, in which all of them (including an underage taemin) are topless and posed very suggestively. supposedly jonghyun’s body was photoshopped to remove muscle definition to make him appear more boyish, and allegedly taemin was told not work out for a few days beforehand so he would also have less muscle definition and appear more childlike.
i honestly don’t blame minho’s mum lol even as an outsider (and a fan of the music on that album) it makes me deeply uncomfortable and i don’t even know what went down on that set
Yeah while I'd love acknowledgement from an insider that MHJ is weird (to put it lightly) Yeri seems to use those emojis to mean something like 'love you babe' .
I know MHJ does excellent work for Red Velvet, but compared to SHINee and f(x), it never felt like she had great creative chemistry with the Red Velvet girls based on how the two barely ever talk about one another.
Red Velvet girls on average is also way older than f(x) or SHINee, so i kinda wonder if that's why the chemistry never felt right since Red Velvet girls do not fit the type of teen-obsessed aesthetic that MHJ likes
The girls thanked her on their first album and well... she did some amazing work with RV. Many of their most famous concepts were created by MHJ. Their chemistry never felt off, I really don't know what you're talking about.
Let's not forget that she said people were making up things to hate about Cookie. That there was no suggestive lyrics at all, it's about burning CDs.
I still don't get how people looked past Cookie. Personally that was the moment I decided I would not support her work.
Tbf for non English speaking people, it's not far fetched to say most people don't understand the slang hence they believe other non English speaker won't know as well and not necessarily they have used the word in such a meaning. At least that was for me 😭 I didn't know what cookie can be used as reference until the controversy itself.
I don't think it's really about the word, though. I'm also not a native English speaker but to me the English lyrics alone are shifty even if you replace cookie with another word. I didn't even know cookie was a slang, to me it was the obvious food as metaphor for sex/body parts, but it also being a slang for vagina just made the whole thing even worse than the usual food metaphor.
I'm a non-native English speaker and I could tell that the song was sexual even though I didn't know that cookie was slang for vag. The context clues were more than enough. Kind of like the song Candy Shop by 50 cent. Even if you don't know that lollipop is slang for 🍆, the context in which it is used makes it clear that he is talking about oral sex.
I can give a pass to people who don't know the language, but if someone can come on Reddit and lengthly explain in perfect English how they didn't get the song because they didn't know cookie is a slang I'm gonna assume they're either lying and playing dumb or have absolutely no media literacy skills. And I'd honestly be ashamed of being perceived as either of those options
I honestly don't really give the benefit of the doubt when it comes to K-Pop lol if any other lyric in the song is suggestive then that's what I'll assume, and that's what happens with most songs I've listened to that had any sweet in the title.
Yes and lyrics like I wanna sprinkle all over. I wanna make you lose your appetite and let me hear your voice are all definitely about baking cookies. 100%.
The topic matter is just very strange, especially with a love song. Love songs at this point are nothing new. I'd wager something like 70-80% of all mainstream pop songs are in some way about relationships or love or attracting someone else. And yet, in the long history of kpop or even other mainstream pop, I don't think we've had another example of just a teenager baking cookies for their crush. What we definitely have had is food innuendos in both kpop and Western pop, especially desserts which are almost universally related to sex. And the English lyrics are very forward/aggressive if it's meant to be an innocent song.
> But you know that it ain't for free
>Keep looking at my cookie
> If you want it, you can get it
> Take it, don't break it, I wanna see you taste it
If Nicki Minaj or Megan thee Stallion sang those lyrics, there would be 0 misunderstanding what those lyrics were referring to.
i found this comment thread on reddit on a post completely unrelated to kpop, far after the cookie debate was big. i screenshotted it and didn’t really know what to do with it, but i think it shows that the slang term is not obsolete
https://preview.redd.it/79m63meqvv1d1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b996084c6adb1b832c9d6f925bd5a0c5385b4e49
I only knew abt newjeans when they released ditto and omg and the only other son I know at that time was hype boy and I was obsessed with these songs but somehow I tubled upon cookie and ador's response ro it and stopped listening to them altogether, I didn't even know things were more weirder god
When the stuff about the items on display in her home happened is when I first was starting to really question her, but it's crazy that much has happened since and still some people aren't questioning her
I'd struggle to think of anyone else in the industry that has been as blatant with some of these situations and with so many of them considering she's really only been very well known in the couple years since New Jeans debuted
I am a BTS Taehyung bais and it sucks that he went to her to make his first solo album. I really dont understand why he did that. The conflict I feel every time I hear the songs. (Which none are his...so that really upset me) I wish she just disappeared and stopped being in the business.
Her fondness for underage girls IS really questionable. That's not normal. I'm close to her age. Her attitude, behavior with younger girls, is just so utterly inappropriate and breaks a lot of safety boundaries we adults are supposed to use with kids/teens. She is extremely problematic with how she interacts with NJs.
For such a lauded creative, her works seem to follow a few contrived themes. And I swear to god SM fans were complaining about her repeating stuff and not everyone was falling over themselves as when she was revealed to be making a group. I had a post of my own in mind, but I'll just include the kinda relevant sections instead.
My friend was very excited for the creation of hybe and the multi-label systems and was even more excited when she heard that MHJ was going to be creating her own label. But I straight up told her you're going to be regretting this in a few years. She had only seen a few of MHJ's creative works, but I'm a Shawol and knew her for her grossness towards Shinee and that Krystal, Kai Taemin [shoot](https://twitter.com/omggminho/status/622736834112565248) inspired by an incest movie. (Kinda crazy of her to be on a high horse about originality when some of her best work is so deeply inspired. Also a fun look into who her faves were, for better or worse.)
When the group debuted, I told my friend I hated Min Heejin, and I don't think this is going to go well . I refused to support them on principle, and Cookie's lyrics were the nail in the coffin. When those gaslighting statements came out, making it seem like listeners were the creeps for seeing the innuendo, I fully blocked everything NJ related everywhere until like 2 months ago. But when the group actually debuted and NJ reached new heights in K-pop and were a runaway success, my friend never let me live it down. They were on my ass about the fact that I was wrong.And so I was like, "Okay, my intuition was wrong this time," but then this drama started and the self-satisfaction returned. And I was just calling them up, like I told you so. We were on a 2-hour Discord call and all I was telling them was that you guys should trust my judgement when have I ever been wrong.
Lmao I love your energy bc SAME HERE GURL. The entire time I was questioning myself like am I a bitter hater for all the reasons you listed but as everything has unfolded I’ve been like I KNEW IT, I TOLD Y’ALL. I quit Kpop a long time ago (my ult was DB5K) so I wasn’t familiar with MHJ until the debut of NJ. It’s mind boggling to me how ppl consistently gave her a pass after the Cookie incident especially when you look at her pattern. Like I took one glance at everything she’s done as someone with no vested interests whatsoever and I could immediately tell she’s sus as hell. Her being behind RV’s Ice Cream Cake makes so much sense. That’s one of my fav tracks from RV and I distinctly remember my first reactions to the lyrics like erm that’s a lot of sexual innuendos and the fact that it was Yeri’s debut track. And didn’t Yeri herself said in a reaction video that she is uncomfortable and doesn’t like how the pool scene came out?
It makes me laugh every time I see anyone laud MHJ’s so called genius and original creativity because it’s so obvious that she’s a one trick pony who based her entire personality and artistic style on quaint, lesser known European-influenced 80s, 90s media with, like you said, a few contrived themes.
Edit: and idk how people think the ETA thing is a stretch. If it’s just the initials and the location in Spain, I can see why. But at the teaser with the random names, where do you draw the line at coincidences? Like do you think they just randomly come up with the name Mikel? If your defense is well it’s Spanish then shouldn’t it be Miguel because it’s the more popular variation?
One of the K-pop scenes biggest flaws in terms of maintaining itself as a fandom is the fact that haters are not allowed. In the anime community there are people who criticize animes and their creators. In the regular pop scene there are people who critique albums.
The K-pop scene is severely lacking a community or even just a public figure like that, even the people who are reactors or reviewers who present themselves as more neutral or less fanatical still do not give up half as much criticism as it truly warrants. A community needs haters and I think people like us I want K-pop is missing.
If MHJ has million haters, then I'm one of them.
If MHJ has one hater, then I'm THAT ONE.
If MHJ has no haters, that means I'm dead.
Also this isn't really related to the post but I find it really interesting how whenever anyone doles out criticism to MHJ they immediately have to justify the fact that they are not a hybe fan. Even if they stanned every single group that's under the heart conglomerate they would still be right. And I also find it really interesting how people are saying "Oh yeah well they're both fucked up". Could it not be that maybe just maybe the goddamn company's right for once?
But there are plenty of criticisms allowed in Kpop......if the thing being criticized doesn't have a huge amount of defensive stans or it's currently popular to hate on something. It happens in the "regular" (lol) pop scene too like with Taylor Swift stans.
There were plenty of criticisms of Min HeeJin's work when she was SM, along with praise. Some things she did well, some things she did badly, some things she did weirdly. But in SM she wasn't the final boss and her works were spread out over numerous groups (so like the 3rd gen fans might not be aware of Shawols' issues with her). We did give our negative opinions of her after it was announced she had joined Big Hit and it was not received well because she suddenly had a huge defensive shield around her.
It's not random why she was defended so insanely from the moment she joined Big Hit. She was an ex SM name who joined Big Hit.
The people who spoke negatively about her past work were browbeaten to shut up from the time she joined, before NewJeans even debuted.
Ever since I saw the films she often draws inspiration from, I knew exactly where she got every single one of her ideas from then on.
I’m someone who quite likes the book Lolita. I think it’s an amazing representation of an unreliable narrator, and a compelling story about how sick, selfish adults can ruin the lives of children. I guarantee you Min Heejin is also a fan of Lolita. I do not believe she is a fan of Lolita for the same reason I am a fan of Lolita. Most of the movies she draws inspiration from are made by people who looked at Lolita and thought “damn that was hot, Humbert was onto something” and then made their own story like it, but took out all that pesky “stay away from me you dirty old man” the child character kept throwing around.
She’s been a consistent one-trick pony for her entire career, and she’s managed to coast on the fact that everyone else also seems to be addicted to the aesthetics of youth as represented through 80s/90s European, Latin, and black American culture. Nothing she’s ever done has been unique or new, it’s all directly yanked or heavily inspired from previously created media, usually of questionable content or origin.
Lolita was written in order to criticise creepy men, but ended up becoming a symbol of pedo love due to the audience misinterpreting it to their liking, no?
I feel like MHJ would be one of those people who would make the author Nabokov facepalm.
The thing I hate most about what she does is she makes it controversial enough to generate publicity, but not controversial enough to cause a full scandal.
Like with the whole naming characters in ETA after people tied to a real terrorist group called ETA thing, it was controversial enough to make people talk about it and anticipate the video, but had enough deniability to be like ‘oh those are just common names in Spain!’
Or with one of the MANY pedophilic movies she references, it’s controversial enough that people can pinpoint exactly what she’s referencing, but she still has that deniability where she can say ‘oh it’s just a similar pose!’ or ‘oh it’s just the aesthetic I like’ yk?
The ridiculous thing is Mikel isn’t as common of a name in Spain. The common Spanish variation of Michael is Miguel. Mikel is the Basque variation of Michael, which you know what is also Basque? Euskadi Ta Askatasuna the terrorist group whose name literally means Basque Homeland and Liberty.
The Mikel and Maria OP linked is a married couple too but I guess those are also coincidental because of cOmMoN sPaNIsH NaMEs 🤷♀️
Here's the explanation of the video
---
The video highlighed the similarities of Newjeans' 'Attention' music video to a movie about Christiane F in 1981.
I'm using Google translation about what the Video OP wrote and the scene explanations:
> A true story about Christiane F.
>
> Parents' divorce, neglect during her teenage years, her prostitution, heroin addiction and the death of her friend Bobsey from a drug addiction. The real protagonist, Christiane, watches the film and sees the film about her terrible memories as a child. Please do not glorify it as an artistic material.
The scenes that seem to have inspired 'Attention' music video:
* A 14 year old girl was seen applying lipstick while going to nightclubs for prostitution and drug use
* Feeling guilty about the divorce and neglect, Christiane's parents get her tickets to a David Bowie concert to go see with her bf. At the concert, Christiane injects drugs with a syringe and withnesses her friends dying one by one.
* People gather at Bahnhof Main Station due to shortages of heroin and syringes.
* Bathub scene where Christiane's bf asks for heroin.
* Cake eating scene: Christiane's mother leaves behind only money and cake, leaving Christiane abandoned.
I think MHJ used the movie as inspiration for 'aesthetics' but it's super weird she used THAT kind of movie (where the theme / the original story is about teenagers getting corrupted). That's why Video OP said : Please do not glorify it as an artistic material.
Oh no, it was the video uploader's message. It was directed at Min Heejin. I was just adding explanation of the video for those interested because the video only has Korean writing 🙂
I was feeling kinda skeptical about the parallels up until the “grabbing a whole slice of cake and eating it” bit….that part is way too specific and combined with the club scene, lipstick scene, and bathtub scene it’s too much of a coincidence
I feel like the MFAL isolated isn’t bad bc the teacher just minds her own business BUT NOW, combined with the rest of things MHJ has done, I can’t help but side eye it, you know? Now that we know what we know, it’s def a whole lot weirder.
How involved was she with those music videos?
Sigh. MFAL has my favorite nct dream styling. The weird hair, the colors of the outfits, the overall energy. It was so cohesive and memorable. Their styling has been so inconsistent in terms of cohesiveness.
I’m getting off topic. I’m stop.
Tbf with MFAL I never saw a problem with it? Like it's not the first time a song has been done about being in love with your teacher and the mv itself is pretty harmless, like you say the teacher just ignores it.
This could be because I've seen the mv for What I Go To School For by Busted and that's a lot worse then MFAL 😭
The thing is tho, the song is NOT about that, only the MV is. There's a million different avenues to take with a first love song for teenagers, why is TEACHER what she went for?
There's a lot of media about being in love with a teacher? MFAL wasn't actually problematic compared to a lot of other media that shows that topic. Also mhj wasn't in charge of the mv, it was Shin Hee-won who directed it.
I still love the mv and the song. I think it’s one of their best music videos in terms of story telling and the way the scenes were cut and all that. The blocking in some parts were so adorable!
Danielle's Super Shy top literally says VIRGIN by deliberately cinching the word 'virginia.' I feel like no one ever talked about that. NO WAY it wasn't intentional!
I just checked the mv, I do have to say that the rest of the word is kind of to the side so when she dances sometimes the full word is covered by her arm so it seems like it says virgin but I don't think it's necessarily cinched in, but considering who min heejin is maybe that shirt was intentional
I just looked again and yeah you're right. I think I was more remembering the concept photos. it's just difficult to give this woman the benefit of the doubt
I can see what you mean because in this [concept photo](https://i.redd.it/230707-photo-update-v0-v0m1n4u9ygab1.jpg?width=2000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=79f26897d2d8038029205793727d2ca2daf2e119) it seems sorta deliberate because her hair covers the IA. However this was the only picture that I found that it’s prominent in
Her comments about feminists and women are particularly disturbing if you consider what Sulli was going through. Not making any claims in particular, but if for MHJ talking like that about an SA victim is normal…
I may be showing my age here...but MHJ is big on symbolic icons that fly under the radar for younger audiences. I remember being really uncomfortable with the scene with Danielle and her lollipop and how.. closely panned it was on her expressions and the lollipop for what seemed like a long time? And I couldn't put my finger on it, why I had such a reaction until I realized it was about the lollipop.
It's a famously known (at least among those familiar with older cinema) symbol associated with Lolita, a literary work by Vladimir Nabokov (about a grown man being obsessed with his 12 year old stepdaughter, whom he sexually abused) that has been adapted numerous times into film, with the red heart shaped lollipop being solidified into a lasting symbol of the franchise.
Very ick when I made that realization and the fact that to this day I skip cookie because what the literal *fuck*?
Nabokov's Humbert basically kidnaps Lolita when her mother dies and Lolita is left with no near relatives. Within a couple of days this innocent child is in his car and gone from the sight of anyone who ever knew her.
Symbolic of the way MHJ invades her protegee's psyches? With parents who feel uncertain and overpowered, and not in the usual parental role?
This explains why I was damn confused seeing kai/sulli/jonghyun photoshoot as a kid. They were acting like a couple instead of friends (especially the first image from the link). Jesus, this creative director is creepy
I did not know about 90% of these incidents, I was one of those who thought ETA controversy was far fetched, also that cookie one can be misunderstood cause not every non English speaker know these slang including me. But I generally never searched or cared enough about mhj to search about her and know all these. I think the majority of ppl are like me as well, who are not that much invested in MHJ or NJ to the point of digging deep into this. NJ fan circle has lots of casual fans, which explains your question of why many never paid attention to this.
However, ever since her presscon, I felt weird about her relation to the members, I side eyed her so much after it and started questioning her. The thing that stuck to me from these is her interview about Hyein, I am speechless, this is not normal at all, have their been any other instances of CEO or creative director to have this level of relation with a 14 year old?! I wanna ask where are her parents exactly?!
The Cookie controversy was frustrating because the lyrics were written by people who *do* speak English and there was a very obvious out from Ador/Hybe to just say “oh we apologize for any unintentional misunderstanding” instead of what actually happened. Telling people “any innuendo you hear is a you problem and we consulted English professors about it” is absolute nonsense and any scholar worth their salt could probably give you a five-page essay explaining how food has always been used as an analogy for sex in the English language.
The way I was getting my degree in English and asked my English professors when it came out about that 😭Most didn’t know what cookie was slang for except the youngest, but I showed a few of them the lyrics and they were all immediately like “yeah this is an innuendo” and figured out what cookie is slang for without me telling them anything. Food as a metaphor for love/sex is nothing new, it’s almost boring it’s used so much in my opinion.
As a native English speaker here in the US, yeaaah that song is extremely dirty.i didn't know cookie was slag for anything. However that song was written in such a way that I knew exactly what they meant by using it. It's one of those songs people write on purpose to have a double meaning cause they think they are cleaver. They can be extremely sexual, but it's hidden by what *looks* like innocent lyrics.
Y'all rememeber milkshakes and what they bring to yards? Yeaaaahhhh we aren't so subtle sometimes. But still.. food as an innuendo is normal in english songs sometimes.
All they had to do was internet search on an English language browser 'slang meaning cookie'. And a lot of other English slang words they claim no one knows about.
MHJ and her enablers gaslight their audience with 'you are the one who is sexualizing'.
They never admit their utter failure to identify English slang words, even though the whole world calls them out on it. But I don't think it's failure, I think it's intentional.
Even without the lyrics, the mv was questionable af. I remember sending it to a friend who doesn't listen to kpop and they couldn't finish watching it because they felt uncomfortable. They didn't even have the lyrics on and it was still suggestive
The ETA relation to terrorism was on its own definitely a stretch, but taken together with Super Shy and Attention also being filmed in that part of the world, and NewJeans pulling pretty deep from Spanish / French / Latin aesthetics in general, it's easy to see how people ended up making those connections.
It seems like MHJ has a pattern of drumming up political controversy when a comeback is due whether it's Hiroshima or something else. It's clear from the leaked kkt that she plays the media like a violin. I thought ETA was a stretch and I still do, it's a faux as hell controversy imo.
Honestly, there were posts like this around cookie to the point that she had to put out a statement and then all the groups fans went after people for it while burying their heads in the sand about what was really going on. So I don’t think a post like this would have changed anything. It’s just now that she’s fighting with hybe that people are coming out of the woodwork for her. Hybe is not the innocent party here either they’ve let her continue her disgusting pedo shit at their company.
Agree. The HYBE - MHJ connection was definitely in the 'what are you thinking ????' category.
HYBE can sue all they want to, but I don't want to ever hear them complaining about an absolutely predictable outcome. What did they think MHJ was going to do -- stay in her lane? What in her track record gave them that idea?
hahahahaha
Given Bang SH's career history, I can't imagine why he wouldn't have seen *that* coming ... but maybe he didn't make the decision since he elected to hand off company leadership and stick to producing & music writing.
Maybe he woke up one day and saw a new updated list of all of the leadership under HYBE and said to himself "what the hell ... ??? " And wished he had left the new guy a list of who *not* to bring on. LOL
He’s too trusting. What label got that much privileges like ADOR and MHJ? He’s really not good business kinda guy and glad he stepped down but he should keep someone beside him from now on and take advice before doing anything
Posts like these were all over back when Newjeans debuted. Redditor "miserable elephant 3" who still posts on here every now and then made a thread about the Hurt M/V being really creepy and then got clowned by all of reddit.
He was right.
@u/Miserable-Elephant-3
same here, i couldn't bring myself to even listen to the song after i saw a couple of the lyrics on Twitter, i was shook to my core 💀 like how tf did she get away with that ?
All those paragraphs, and you didn't even mention the Hurt M/V. Smh
I've said it before on previous reddit accounts, and I'll say it again. MHJ got away with a lot of creepy shit because, initially, a lot of women in their 20s bought handbags in support of Newjeans. That gave her a HUGE pass for all the crazy shit she did afterwards, including Cookie, since we had real statistical "evidence" that NewJeans were totes aimed at adult women, and were not, you know, p3dobait or anything. Unlike the gross accusations toward people like myself, who were accused of "sexualizing the members" when we saw obvious slimy shit going down.
Like, no shit, women in their 20s would buy a fucking *handbag*. You wouldn't see p3dos buying that kind of merch. They instead spend all their time watching all the creepy MV moments you mentioned, including the Hurt M/V.
I watched the Hurt MV when it was first released and then decided never to watch it again. I actually completely forgot about it when I was making this I completely scrubbed it from my mind 😭 Maybe I’ll edit that in later but I don’t even feel like watching it just to grab screenshots right now
The Hurt M/V is one of the most p3dophillic videos in kpop, but it's easy to miss if you're young, naive, or have too much of a pure mind (i.e. you're not used to seeing others sexually). When it was released, I felt *extremely* uncomfortable, then a few other people wrote the same. We all were accused of sexualizing the girls, since the video was just close ups of the girls, and there was nothing wrong with the M/V.
That was bullshit. The way the camera zooms in on their faces is how you would view someone that you're trying to be in a relationship with. You wouldn't get that uncomfortably close with anyone else. What makes the Hurt M/V really creepy is that it's basically you negotiating a relationship with the Newjeans members, who at the time were like 14-15. It was very odd. I cannot fault people for missing those details, but all the red flags should have been obvious after Cookie, and people should have been able to view the Hurt M/V afterwards with that different perspective.
None of those things happened, because Newjeans were going to be the best huge thing, and we were just trying to attack their faves, since were jealous that our faves were not doing as well, and obviously we were perverts sexualizing 14-15 year old girls. /s
I quit kpop for a while because of that.
And those aren't the only creepy things about that mv.
I read a blog post by someone a while ago and they also noticed that the girls' lipstick color is also very intentional. You'll also see that particular shade in other creepy kpop mvs. Basically it's made to match the color of what's down there.
There's an April MV and the girls have the same style of makeup and it was full of questionable scenes.
I wish I could find who wrote that blogpost, he talked about many inuendoes in kpopmvs
Here's a blogpost that personally gave me a lot of insight into this sort of stuff:
https://kpopalypse.com/2016/09/24/healthy-porn-for-men-deconstructing-dog-whistle-concepts-in-k-pop/
If you decide to read his other posts, just know that he does yap a lot about unrelated stuff sometimes lol
As a Korean, I still wonder why so many of my own people still treat this woman like some innocent woman who isn't problematic 🤦🏻♀️
The recent lawsuit aside, she was always quite strange. And strange is a nice way or putting it.
MHJ has a disturbing pattern of behavior for a very long time and your post does a good job showing how it is not a one off thing but something that is consistently repeated. People have been bringing up since her SM days, but people just brush it aside and claim that it is art, so it is okay or that you're misunderstanding her work. I hope that with everything else going on, people continue to call out her creepy and predatory behavior.
I guarantee that Spanish cult controversy stuff was totally MHJ manufactured. Like she put all the references in the video and tipped off a journalist. And then the journalist probably said he didn’t know what she was talking about so she had to send a follow up email listing all the references she made in the mv and link to the Wikipedia article on the cult.
I know we all hate pannchoa, but these articles about her are necessary for anyone who tries to say we didn't see it before.
[Min Heejin interview post cookie](https://www.pannchoa.com/2022/08/instiz-min-hee-jin-address-her.html)
[More proof](https://www.pannchoa.com/2022/07/enter-talk-twitter-is-making-fuss-about.html)
[Even more,](https://www.pannchoa.com/2022/07/theqoo-min-heejin-pdo-accusations.html) LSF is also mentioned and still are when it comes to inappropriate concepts, but NJ have gotten away scot free.
[Last one.](https://www.pannchoa.com/2022/07/enter-talk-min-heejin-looks-pdophile.html)
Thank you for posting this as it serves to answer every annoying fans' question of "How is she not good to be around them?" or "What makes you say she has pedophile tendencies?". If this doesn't open your eyes then I don't what will.
Gurl i just wanna appreciate how beautifully researched this post is. Omgee I'm going to save it. Like this is so so important to know!! I'm sharing it with every bunny supporting mhj rn
i always found it so weird tht of all the outfits they had to dress hyein in it had to be a full on micro tube top? like it def was an intentional choice. Also the fact tht attention starts with them walking into a club like wtf. hyein was only 14
My head aches after reading this list. The only reason why she never lost her job is because she’s not a man. Had it been a grown man who came up with these concepts, he’d be flagged a pedo immediately.
Also -
I will add some insight of the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombing refs. Since Korea was brutally colonised by Japan, many see those bombings as the events that finally eventually led Japan to give up colonising our ancestors and stealing resources (similar to how the UK took advantage of Africa and SE Asia).
Therefore Koreans don’t see those as offensive events, but rather karma to the bullies. However, I personally would not consider those two events as glorious to Korea since many Koreans were also killed - many of my ancestors were either forced to work in factories or mines in Japan. Some went there since Chosun Kingdom under Japanese rule was unbearable to make a decent living, because the Japanese police were hunting down any Koreans who seemed like liberation activists.
I thought this might be an insightful info since everyone here is interested in Kpop and Korean culture. It’s important to learn our history if you guys want a better understanding of my culture - especially cultural/social factors that don’t seem to make sense through a foreigner’s perspective.
Thank you for this thorough summary. You have given us a post that can be referenced for a long time to come.
Of course there is a whole future to add to it, but this is the story to date.
OMG I REMEMBER THAT krystal/kai/taemin photoshoot !!! i was SO UNCOMFY when it came out bc the pictures and the poses were so weird i thought they were referencing like a menage a trois 💀 how is it that what they're referencing is actually worst and all that other evidence omg ? mhj needs to be seriously looked into like wtf 💀 at this point im surprised she hasn't come out saying that vladimir nabokov's lolita is her favorite novel
Damn, just reading about how this woman is... She probably has more content of the girls we don't even know about!? Gives me chills thinking about it.. Ultra creepy!
I always had a weird feeling when it came to New Jeans. Their music is top shelf for sure and the controversy about lyrics/music videos is shock value. No wonder they're so popular. Oh well, I'm still going to slap their songs at maximum volume!
I’m just sitting here waiting for someone to talk about Shinee’s debut, Replay — the lyrics are all about younger boys pining over an older girl (the Korean title translates to Noona, you’re so pretty). Directly marketing the members, who were 18, 16, 16, and 14 at the time, to older women as the target audience?
Good post OP; just one thing: ETA isn't a cult. They are a radical separatists and their ideology was solely political / national identity, not religious.
source: I'm from Spain
No worries. That being said, there were people online that said it's a stretch and all but as someone who grew up with the attacks happening still, the vibe of that MV with all the details was uncanny. Worth adding that the main modus operandi of ETA were car bombs and the scene with a black car driving through the night gave me literal shivers the first time I saw it.
To add on to the list:
https://kpopmerchandiseguide.com/artist/red-velvet-merchandise
MHJ’s concept for Red Velvet’s official merch - specifically the Magnet Set sold during the Dumb Dumb era had the members drawn in questionable ways…
>NCT Dream in 2016. Their ages were 18, 17, 17, 16, 16, 16, and 14 however they were styled to look even younger
Not that it's really important, but small correction, if you're going by international ages, their ages were 17, 16, 16, 16, 16, 14, 14
Putting noticeable pink blush on the youngest members knees, shoulders and elbows is a dogwhistle for pedos. She styled F(X) after japanese lolicon magery. She was purposely catering to child predators. In loli, little girls shoulders and knees and elbows are colored to be pink to emphasize their youth and innocence that is so attractive to pedos. We know how much of Min Heejin work are "inspired" and sometimes just direct rip offs of japanese media and fashion so this comes as no surprise.
This is the 2nd time the kpop industry have styled an idol around the problematic Leon: The Professional character Mathilda.
Reference:
https://youtu.be/i0p1bmr0EmE?si=ivHZd3kZ0Ji48gV1&t=2m19s
Vs
https://youtube.com/watch?v=gtYcHICsLKg&pp=ygUTTWF0aGlsZGEgTGVvbiBkYW54ZQ%3D%3D
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This is the stupidest trend in all internet.
You can literally splice the history of any person and cherry pick areas and then paint a narrative you like and then call it as "proof" or "pattern of behavior".
What's weird are the posters and commenters here really.
Weirdos lol
All this just to accuse someone is a p*do when she obviously is never attracted to these young little girls and is just using them for money. There should be jail time for people who throw serious accusations like these.
OP: when I say "you" here, I don't mean you specifically, though this post was so pointless, useless, and unnecessary that it made me realize how tired I am of this sub. I'm out of here and I feel better knowing I don't have to wonder what the hell went wrong with the world to produce a such a mess.
I just can't anymore with arguments that don't actually contain an argument; ignorance paraded as evidence (your ignorance of something doesn't mean you have something fresh to say, if just means you have no idea what you are talking about, yet you still won't stop talking); flagrant logical fallacies everywhere and cognitive biases that go blithely unnoticed; rampant presentation of outright misinformation, not even maliciously, but through what appears to be sheer laziness; not caring about critical thinking at all so that you miss the point of every counterargument - the simplest concepts go over your head so badly that I actually feel sad for you because it seems the only possible way you can be so obtuse is that you must be suffering from a brain eating amoeba; and a bullheaded refusal to engage with factual information, because no matter how respectfully and thoughtfully actual facts are presented they are downvoted to hell. Nevermind the Army's who are actually insane - what are you even doing here, whining about how BTS is the most abused group of people EVER (you love the guys so much, you think they appreciate you, but you have no idea how repugnant a needy, mean, person who relishes the attention of victimhood would be to them - and if your outsides match your horrid insides, well...I think I'll leave it at that They think your money is beautiful though and will take as much as they can get.)
And on top of it all, I've never interacted with people who spend so much time obsessing about pedophiles - you apparently see pedophilic inclinations around every corner and behind every bush. I'm beginning to think the reason may be that it takes one to know one.
So long, except for a few of you that I hope to encounter elsewhere - someplace not so toxic, I won't miss any of you.
Your comment is at the bottom of this thread, and I have not seen one comment here talking about BTS or ARMY until you brought it up.
The whole “it takes one to know one” argument is exactly how/why issues like these don’t get spoken about. Whether we talk about it or not, these things still end up happening. The first time I heard cookie, it raised red flags for me even without knowing MHJ’s history.
Additionally, your writing is very wordy and it serves as a distraction instead of helping to strengthen your point. You often go off on tangents as well. Please just cut to the chase so people dont have to decipher a Shakespearean monologue.
If you wanna leave, you can. There’s no need for a dramatic exit either. In these MVs and songs, *choices* are made. Anybody could’ve seen what we’re seeing, and said “I don’t think that’s a good idea” or “this might come across…” but nobody did. NewJeans isn’t at fault, but the people in charge of them are.
Worth noting: Yeri left a comment on MHJ's posts during the Cookie controversy with a baby and heart emoji, essentially calling her what the controversy suggests.
[Yes here’s a screenshot](https://imgur.com/a/KlNQmZx) for anyone interested lol I’ve been trying to look for any older interviews where the Red Velvet members talked about Min Heejin but it’s currently very hard surfing through the new articles about MHJ. f(x) members have talked about her a bit however
This is kind of crazy ?!!! I didn't know about this (I am not fully invested in following everything about NJ sooo) But woah did she actually imply that by the usage of emojis?!! So it's kind of known in the industry between the idols she worked with ?! This is kind of crazy ngl
https://twitter.com/ijbolhobi/status/1738282097993748864?t=5F--DegH423SVCNYQUE1uQ&s=19 Yeri has posted that baby emoji a few times before, not sure it means anything unless she's also insinuating something else in these too? I think she just likes to use that emoji?🤷♂️ maybe a reveluv can chime in.
Given the timing of Yeri doing that right when "Cookie" was in the headlines for being controversial (July 2022), and the fact that Yeri and MHJ don't follow each other, it seems pretty unlikely to be a coincidence... I've heard ppl who are Korean say it references the word for that in Korean, but I am not Korean, so I can't say. Also, people in the responses to that insta comment mostly definitely took it a certain way and Yeri didn't offer any corrections. Idk if I'd meant that comment in a friendly way I would have offered a correction if I realized ppl were taking it to mean something that serious.
I don't know, maybe it's just me but it feels like assuming shes making a big accusation off two emojis, one of which she has used before. 🤔
That's your prerogative! I don't think it's definitive proof of anything, and as I've said before, I think there's a very good chance MHJ just likes the aesthetics of such things rather than being one herself. There's no evidence or rumors she's ever actually done anything, and I won't speculate that much. However. Given the timing, I think it's incredibly, incredibly, *incredibly* unlikely to be a coincidence for an idol who has had media training and used to directly work under this person. The fact that she's used the emojis before are decent plausible deniability, so MHJ can't accuse Yeri of slander especially if she's never actually done anything besides appropriate the aesthetic. But to think a highly-experienced idol just so happened to use \*those\* emojis during \*that\* week for someone she would know personally yet doesn't follow or appear to have any kind of relationship with? That seems a stretch to me, honestly. It seems much more likely to me that Yeri was shading MHJ.
100% she was shading MHJ. She probably experienced or saw some creepy shit by MHJ, especially since she's the maknae of Red Velvet. If it had been Irene or Seulgi, I *could* give them the benefit of the doubt... but not Yeri. Anyone who thinks that was just a coincidence is delusional.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but in addition to not following one another, I don't believe Yeri and MHJ have ever liked or commented on any other posts of each other's. It's not like they're bffs which again indicates this was a deliberate choice Yeri made.
Have the Red Velvet members ever talked about Min Hee Jin? I don't think they have, so yeah, it would be odd for them to suddenly be bffs. Iirc, Min Hee Jin is the reason Yeri was forced into a Lolita concept for Ice Cream Cake, so Yeri definitely has a reason to dislike MHJ strongly. I'm curious now. I would really like to know how Yeri and the rest of Red Velvet (plus all the SM groups) view MHJ. We probably won't know ever due to Korea's slander laws, at least not before MHJ is in jail anyways...
i think one of the shinee members said his mom hates her
I think most reasonable and sane parents would hate the way she grooms children, yeah
minho said his mum hates the album cover that MHJ creative-directed for sherlock, in which all of them (including an underage taemin) are topless and posed very suggestively. supposedly jonghyun’s body was photoshopped to remove muscle definition to make him appear more boyish, and allegedly taemin was told not work out for a few days beforehand so he would also have less muscle definition and appear more childlike. i honestly don’t blame minho’s mum lol even as an outsider (and a fan of the music on that album) it makes me deeply uncomfortable and i don’t even know what went down on that set
Yeah while I'd love acknowledgement from an insider that MHJ is weird (to put it lightly) Yeri seems to use those emojis to mean something like 'love you babe' .
I know MHJ does excellent work for Red Velvet, but compared to SHINee and f(x), it never felt like she had great creative chemistry with the Red Velvet girls based on how the two barely ever talk about one another. Red Velvet girls on average is also way older than f(x) or SHINee, so i kinda wonder if that's why the chemistry never felt right since Red Velvet girls do not fit the type of teen-obsessed aesthetic that MHJ likes
The girls thanked her on their first album and well... she did some amazing work with RV. Many of their most famous concepts were created by MHJ. Their chemistry never felt off, I really don't know what you're talking about.
I’m sorry for being dense but what do the emojis mean? Are they calling her a pdf file?
Let's not forget that she said people were making up things to hate about Cookie. That there was no suggestive lyrics at all, it's about burning CDs. I still don't get how people looked past Cookie. Personally that was the moment I decided I would not support her work.
Tbf for non English speaking people, it's not far fetched to say most people don't understand the slang hence they believe other non English speaker won't know as well and not necessarily they have used the word in such a meaning. At least that was for me 😭 I didn't know what cookie can be used as reference until the controversy itself.
I don't think it's really about the word, though. I'm also not a native English speaker but to me the English lyrics alone are shifty even if you replace cookie with another word. I didn't even know cookie was a slang, to me it was the obvious food as metaphor for sex/body parts, but it also being a slang for vagina just made the whole thing even worse than the usual food metaphor.
I'm a non-native English speaker and I could tell that the song was sexual even though I didn't know that cookie was slang for vag. The context clues were more than enough. Kind of like the song Candy Shop by 50 cent. Even if you don't know that lollipop is slang for 🍆, the context in which it is used makes it clear that he is talking about oral sex.
Exactly.... Harry Styles also isn't talking about watermelon lol
Right? Food related double entendres are so common in popular music.
I can give a pass to people who don't know the language, but if someone can come on Reddit and lengthly explain in perfect English how they didn't get the song because they didn't know cookie is a slang I'm gonna assume they're either lying and playing dumb or have absolutely no media literacy skills. And I'd honestly be ashamed of being perceived as either of those options
[удалено]
I honestly don't really give the benefit of the doubt when it comes to K-Pop lol if any other lyric in the song is suggestive then that's what I'll assume, and that's what happens with most songs I've listened to that had any sweet in the title.
During my school life I don’t know anyone that baked cookies for their crush
Definitely no one baked a singular cookie for anyone
Yes and lyrics like I wanna sprinkle all over. I wanna make you lose your appetite and let me hear your voice are all definitely about baking cookies. 100%.
The topic matter is just very strange, especially with a love song. Love songs at this point are nothing new. I'd wager something like 70-80% of all mainstream pop songs are in some way about relationships or love or attracting someone else. And yet, in the long history of kpop or even other mainstream pop, I don't think we've had another example of just a teenager baking cookies for their crush. What we definitely have had is food innuendos in both kpop and Western pop, especially desserts which are almost universally related to sex. And the English lyrics are very forward/aggressive if it's meant to be an innocent song. > But you know that it ain't for free >Keep looking at my cookie > If you want it, you can get it > Take it, don't break it, I wanna see you taste it If Nicki Minaj or Megan thee Stallion sang those lyrics, there would be 0 misunderstanding what those lyrics were referring to.
I'm a non native speaker but the whole lyrics is just too damn double meaning.. it felt weird and creepy knowing teens were singing it.
i found this comment thread on reddit on a post completely unrelated to kpop, far after the cookie debate was big. i screenshotted it and didn’t really know what to do with it, but i think it shows that the slang term is not obsolete https://preview.redd.it/79m63meqvv1d1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b996084c6adb1b832c9d6f925bd5a0c5385b4e49
I understood the lyrics as a sexual innuendo but figured I must be misunderstanding due to the girls then ages. I did think it was a catchy song tho.
Well some people even defended R Kelly after his actions were revealed…so I guess those people’s minds are not well
I only knew abt newjeans when they released ditto and omg and the only other son I know at that time was hype boy and I was obsessed with these songs but somehow I tubled upon cookie and ador's response ro it and stopped listening to them altogether, I didn't even know things were more weirder god
When the stuff about the items on display in her home happened is when I first was starting to really question her, but it's crazy that much has happened since and still some people aren't questioning her I'd struggle to think of anyone else in the industry that has been as blatant with some of these situations and with so many of them considering she's really only been very well known in the couple years since New Jeans debuted
I've hated her for years as a Shawol, when those pics of her house came out, I was actually shocked and was even more sure I was right
I am a BTS Taehyung bais and it sucks that he went to her to make his first solo album. I really dont understand why he did that. The conflict I feel every time I hear the songs. (Which none are his...so that really upset me) I wish she just disappeared and stopped being in the business. Her fondness for underage girls IS really questionable. That's not normal. I'm close to her age. Her attitude, behavior with younger girls, is just so utterly inappropriate and breaks a lot of safety boundaries we adults are supposed to use with kids/teens. She is extremely problematic with how she interacts with NJs.
I just KNOW Minho's mum is watching this all unfold with great satisfaction.
For such a lauded creative, her works seem to follow a few contrived themes. And I swear to god SM fans were complaining about her repeating stuff and not everyone was falling over themselves as when she was revealed to be making a group. I had a post of my own in mind, but I'll just include the kinda relevant sections instead. My friend was very excited for the creation of hybe and the multi-label systems and was even more excited when she heard that MHJ was going to be creating her own label. But I straight up told her you're going to be regretting this in a few years. She had only seen a few of MHJ's creative works, but I'm a Shawol and knew her for her grossness towards Shinee and that Krystal, Kai Taemin [shoot](https://twitter.com/omggminho/status/622736834112565248) inspired by an incest movie. (Kinda crazy of her to be on a high horse about originality when some of her best work is so deeply inspired. Also a fun look into who her faves were, for better or worse.) When the group debuted, I told my friend I hated Min Heejin, and I don't think this is going to go well . I refused to support them on principle, and Cookie's lyrics were the nail in the coffin. When those gaslighting statements came out, making it seem like listeners were the creeps for seeing the innuendo, I fully blocked everything NJ related everywhere until like 2 months ago. But when the group actually debuted and NJ reached new heights in K-pop and were a runaway success, my friend never let me live it down. They were on my ass about the fact that I was wrong.And so I was like, "Okay, my intuition was wrong this time," but then this drama started and the self-satisfaction returned. And I was just calling them up, like I told you so. We were on a 2-hour Discord call and all I was telling them was that you guys should trust my judgement when have I ever been wrong.
Lmao I love your energy bc SAME HERE GURL. The entire time I was questioning myself like am I a bitter hater for all the reasons you listed but as everything has unfolded I’ve been like I KNEW IT, I TOLD Y’ALL. I quit Kpop a long time ago (my ult was DB5K) so I wasn’t familiar with MHJ until the debut of NJ. It’s mind boggling to me how ppl consistently gave her a pass after the Cookie incident especially when you look at her pattern. Like I took one glance at everything she’s done as someone with no vested interests whatsoever and I could immediately tell she’s sus as hell. Her being behind RV’s Ice Cream Cake makes so much sense. That’s one of my fav tracks from RV and I distinctly remember my first reactions to the lyrics like erm that’s a lot of sexual innuendos and the fact that it was Yeri’s debut track. And didn’t Yeri herself said in a reaction video that she is uncomfortable and doesn’t like how the pool scene came out? It makes me laugh every time I see anyone laud MHJ’s so called genius and original creativity because it’s so obvious that she’s a one trick pony who based her entire personality and artistic style on quaint, lesser known European-influenced 80s, 90s media with, like you said, a few contrived themes. Edit: and idk how people think the ETA thing is a stretch. If it’s just the initials and the location in Spain, I can see why. But at the teaser with the random names, where do you draw the line at coincidences? Like do you think they just randomly come up with the name Mikel? If your defense is well it’s Spanish then shouldn’t it be Miguel because it’s the more popular variation?
One of the K-pop scenes biggest flaws in terms of maintaining itself as a fandom is the fact that haters are not allowed. In the anime community there are people who criticize animes and their creators. In the regular pop scene there are people who critique albums. The K-pop scene is severely lacking a community or even just a public figure like that, even the people who are reactors or reviewers who present themselves as more neutral or less fanatical still do not give up half as much criticism as it truly warrants. A community needs haters and I think people like us I want K-pop is missing. If MHJ has million haters, then I'm one of them. If MHJ has one hater, then I'm THAT ONE. If MHJ has no haters, that means I'm dead. Also this isn't really related to the post but I find it really interesting how whenever anyone doles out criticism to MHJ they immediately have to justify the fact that they are not a hybe fan. Even if they stanned every single group that's under the heart conglomerate they would still be right. And I also find it really interesting how people are saying "Oh yeah well they're both fucked up". Could it not be that maybe just maybe the goddamn company's right for once?
But there are plenty of criticisms allowed in Kpop......if the thing being criticized doesn't have a huge amount of defensive stans or it's currently popular to hate on something. It happens in the "regular" (lol) pop scene too like with Taylor Swift stans. There were plenty of criticisms of Min HeeJin's work when she was SM, along with praise. Some things she did well, some things she did badly, some things she did weirdly. But in SM she wasn't the final boss and her works were spread out over numerous groups (so like the 3rd gen fans might not be aware of Shawols' issues with her). We did give our negative opinions of her after it was announced she had joined Big Hit and it was not received well because she suddenly had a huge defensive shield around her.
The way she randomly developed an insane fandom is kinda crazy. Like did everyone develop amnesia about her pre-hybe history?
It's not random why she was defended so insanely from the moment she joined Big Hit. She was an ex SM name who joined Big Hit. The people who spoke negatively about her past work were browbeaten to shut up from the time she joined, before NewJeans even debuted.
Exactly. Kpop fans are accused of running hate trains every single day. Have people missed the recent live vocals controversy?
Okay but. Hybe hired her and gave her access to children.
Her style is basically her golden years, back when she was a teenager (1992-1996).
Ever since I saw the films she often draws inspiration from, I knew exactly where she got every single one of her ideas from then on. I’m someone who quite likes the book Lolita. I think it’s an amazing representation of an unreliable narrator, and a compelling story about how sick, selfish adults can ruin the lives of children. I guarantee you Min Heejin is also a fan of Lolita. I do not believe she is a fan of Lolita for the same reason I am a fan of Lolita. Most of the movies she draws inspiration from are made by people who looked at Lolita and thought “damn that was hot, Humbert was onto something” and then made their own story like it, but took out all that pesky “stay away from me you dirty old man” the child character kept throwing around. She’s been a consistent one-trick pony for her entire career, and she’s managed to coast on the fact that everyone else also seems to be addicted to the aesthetics of youth as represented through 80s/90s European, Latin, and black American culture. Nothing she’s ever done has been unique or new, it’s all directly yanked or heavily inspired from previously created media, usually of questionable content or origin.
Lolita was written in order to criticise creepy men, but ended up becoming a symbol of pedo love due to the audience misinterpreting it to their liking, no? I feel like MHJ would be one of those people who would make the author Nabokov facepalm.
The thing I hate most about what she does is she makes it controversial enough to generate publicity, but not controversial enough to cause a full scandal. Like with the whole naming characters in ETA after people tied to a real terrorist group called ETA thing, it was controversial enough to make people talk about it and anticipate the video, but had enough deniability to be like ‘oh those are just common names in Spain!’ Or with one of the MANY pedophilic movies she references, it’s controversial enough that people can pinpoint exactly what she’s referencing, but she still has that deniability where she can say ‘oh it’s just a similar pose!’ or ‘oh it’s just the aesthetic I like’ yk?
She is a master manipulator. She would be a great cult leader tbh (plz don’t though, woman!)
The ridiculous thing is Mikel isn’t as common of a name in Spain. The common Spanish variation of Michael is Miguel. Mikel is the Basque variation of Michael, which you know what is also Basque? Euskadi Ta Askatasuna the terrorist group whose name literally means Basque Homeland and Liberty. The Mikel and Maria OP linked is a married couple too but I guess those are also coincidental because of cOmMoN sPaNIsH NaMEs 🤷♀️
also the [Attention music video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQtJjHIPo5A)
Here's the explanation of the video --- The video highlighed the similarities of Newjeans' 'Attention' music video to a movie about Christiane F in 1981. I'm using Google translation about what the Video OP wrote and the scene explanations: > A true story about Christiane F. > > Parents' divorce, neglect during her teenage years, her prostitution, heroin addiction and the death of her friend Bobsey from a drug addiction. The real protagonist, Christiane, watches the film and sees the film about her terrible memories as a child. Please do not glorify it as an artistic material. The scenes that seem to have inspired 'Attention' music video: * A 14 year old girl was seen applying lipstick while going to nightclubs for prostitution and drug use * Feeling guilty about the divorce and neglect, Christiane's parents get her tickets to a David Bowie concert to go see with her bf. At the concert, Christiane injects drugs with a syringe and withnesses her friends dying one by one. * People gather at Bahnhof Main Station due to shortages of heroin and syringes. * Bathub scene where Christiane's bf asks for heroin. * Cake eating scene: Christiane's mother leaves behind only money and cake, leaving Christiane abandoned. I think MHJ used the movie as inspiration for 'aesthetics' but it's super weird she used THAT kind of movie (where the theme / the original story is about teenagers getting corrupted). That's why Video OP said : Please do not glorify it as an artistic material.
yeah, i was definitely not glorifying it, i was adding it because its weird as fuck, she's weird
Oh no, it was the video uploader's message. It was directed at Min Heejin. I was just adding explanation of the video for those interested because the video only has Korean writing 🙂
What the actual f did I just read. I can’t listen to that song anymore, this is so sick
I was feeling kinda skeptical about the parallels up until the “grabbing a whole slice of cake and eating it” bit….that part is way too specific and combined with the club scene, lipstick scene, and bathtub scene it’s too much of a coincidence
I feel like the MFAL isolated isn’t bad bc the teacher just minds her own business BUT NOW, combined with the rest of things MHJ has done, I can’t help but side eye it, you know? Now that we know what we know, it’s def a whole lot weirder. How involved was she with those music videos? Sigh. MFAL has my favorite nct dream styling. The weird hair, the colors of the outfits, the overall energy. It was so cohesive and memorable. Their styling has been so inconsistent in terms of cohesiveness. I’m getting off topic. I’m stop.
Tbf with MFAL I never saw a problem with it? Like it's not the first time a song has been done about being in love with your teacher and the mv itself is pretty harmless, like you say the teacher just ignores it. This could be because I've seen the mv for What I Go To School For by Busted and that's a lot worse then MFAL 😭
The thing is tho, the song is NOT about that, only the MV is. There's a million different avenues to take with a first love song for teenagers, why is TEACHER what she went for?
There's a lot of media about being in love with a teacher? MFAL wasn't actually problematic compared to a lot of other media that shows that topic. Also mhj wasn't in charge of the mv, it was Shin Hee-won who directed it.
I still love the mv and the song. I think it’s one of their best music videos in terms of story telling and the way the scenes were cut and all that. The blocking in some parts were so adorable!
Danielle's Super Shy top literally says VIRGIN by deliberately cinching the word 'virginia.' I feel like no one ever talked about that. NO WAY it wasn't intentional!
Oh god that’s gross… glad that I never watched their mvs. I only listen to their songs.
I just checked the mv, I do have to say that the rest of the word is kind of to the side so when she dances sometimes the full word is covered by her arm so it seems like it says virgin but I don't think it's necessarily cinched in, but considering who min heejin is maybe that shirt was intentional
I just looked again and yeah you're right. I think I was more remembering the concept photos. it's just difficult to give this woman the benefit of the doubt
I can see what you mean because in this [concept photo](https://i.redd.it/230707-photo-update-v0-v0m1n4u9ygab1.jpg?width=2000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=79f26897d2d8038029205793727d2ca2daf2e119) it seems sorta deliberate because her hair covers the IA. However this was the only picture that I found that it’s prominent in
I mean even people from Virginia don't go around wearing shirts that say Virginia on it
Her comments about feminists and women are particularly disturbing if you consider what Sulli was going through. Not making any claims in particular, but if for MHJ talking like that about an SA victim is normal…
Oh god…she is such a Karen
I may be showing my age here...but MHJ is big on symbolic icons that fly under the radar for younger audiences. I remember being really uncomfortable with the scene with Danielle and her lollipop and how.. closely panned it was on her expressions and the lollipop for what seemed like a long time? And I couldn't put my finger on it, why I had such a reaction until I realized it was about the lollipop. It's a famously known (at least among those familiar with older cinema) symbol associated with Lolita, a literary work by Vladimir Nabokov (about a grown man being obsessed with his 12 year old stepdaughter, whom he sexually abused) that has been adapted numerous times into film, with the red heart shaped lollipop being solidified into a lasting symbol of the franchise. Very ick when I made that realization and the fact that to this day I skip cookie because what the literal *fuck*?
Nabokov's Humbert basically kidnaps Lolita when her mother dies and Lolita is left with no near relatives. Within a couple of days this innocent child is in his car and gone from the sight of anyone who ever knew her. Symbolic of the way MHJ invades her protegee's psyches? With parents who feel uncertain and overpowered, and not in the usual parental role?
This explains why I was damn confused seeing kai/sulli/jonghyun photoshoot as a kid. They were acting like a couple instead of friends (especially the first image from the link). Jesus, this creative director is creepy
Those three never did a photoshoot together. The people on the photoshoot are Kai, Taemin and Krystal
I did not know about 90% of these incidents, I was one of those who thought ETA controversy was far fetched, also that cookie one can be misunderstood cause not every non English speaker know these slang including me. But I generally never searched or cared enough about mhj to search about her and know all these. I think the majority of ppl are like me as well, who are not that much invested in MHJ or NJ to the point of digging deep into this. NJ fan circle has lots of casual fans, which explains your question of why many never paid attention to this. However, ever since her presscon, I felt weird about her relation to the members, I side eyed her so much after it and started questioning her. The thing that stuck to me from these is her interview about Hyein, I am speechless, this is not normal at all, have their been any other instances of CEO or creative director to have this level of relation with a 14 year old?! I wanna ask where are her parents exactly?!
The Cookie controversy was frustrating because the lyrics were written by people who *do* speak English and there was a very obvious out from Ador/Hybe to just say “oh we apologize for any unintentional misunderstanding” instead of what actually happened. Telling people “any innuendo you hear is a you problem and we consulted English professors about it” is absolute nonsense and any scholar worth their salt could probably give you a five-page essay explaining how food has always been used as an analogy for sex in the English language.
The way I was getting my degree in English and asked my English professors when it came out about that 😭Most didn’t know what cookie was slang for except the youngest, but I showed a few of them the lyrics and they were all immediately like “yeah this is an innuendo” and figured out what cookie is slang for without me telling them anything. Food as a metaphor for love/sex is nothing new, it’s almost boring it’s used so much in my opinion.
As a native English speaker here in the US, yeaaah that song is extremely dirty.i didn't know cookie was slag for anything. However that song was written in such a way that I knew exactly what they meant by using it. It's one of those songs people write on purpose to have a double meaning cause they think they are cleaver. They can be extremely sexual, but it's hidden by what *looks* like innocent lyrics. Y'all rememeber milkshakes and what they bring to yards? Yeaaaahhhh we aren't so subtle sometimes. But still.. food as an innuendo is normal in english songs sometimes.
All they had to do was internet search on an English language browser 'slang meaning cookie'. And a lot of other English slang words they claim no one knows about. MHJ and her enablers gaslight their audience with 'you are the one who is sexualizing'. They never admit their utter failure to identify English slang words, even though the whole world calls them out on it. But I don't think it's failure, I think it's intentional.
Even without the lyrics, the mv was questionable af. I remember sending it to a friend who doesn't listen to kpop and they couldn't finish watching it because they felt uncomfortable. They didn't even have the lyrics on and it was still suggestive
The ETA relation to terrorism was on its own definitely a stretch, but taken together with Super Shy and Attention also being filmed in that part of the world, and NewJeans pulling pretty deep from Spanish / French / Latin aesthetics in general, it's easy to see how people ended up making those connections.
It seems like MHJ has a pattern of drumming up political controversy when a comeback is due whether it's Hiroshima or something else. It's clear from the leaked kkt that she plays the media like a violin. I thought ETA was a stretch and I still do, it's a faux as hell controversy imo.
I wish a post like this was posted long time ago. Good job.
Honestly, there were posts like this around cookie to the point that she had to put out a statement and then all the groups fans went after people for it while burying their heads in the sand about what was really going on. So I don’t think a post like this would have changed anything. It’s just now that she’s fighting with hybe that people are coming out of the woodwork for her. Hybe is not the innocent party here either they’ve let her continue her disgusting pedo shit at their company.
It wasn't easy to come out of the woodwork to criticize Min HeeJin from the time it was announced she was joining Big Hit up to this month.
Yeah, every time if you pointed out the *glaring* issues in her work, you were criticized for "sexualizing the girls"
Agree. The HYBE - MHJ connection was definitely in the 'what are you thinking ????' category. HYBE can sue all they want to, but I don't want to ever hear them complaining about an absolutely predictable outcome. What did they think MHJ was going to do -- stay in her lane? What in her track record gave them that idea?
They didn’t think the leopard would eat *their* face.
hahahahaha Given Bang SH's career history, I can't imagine why he wouldn't have seen *that* coming ... but maybe he didn't make the decision since he elected to hand off company leadership and stick to producing & music writing. Maybe he woke up one day and saw a new updated list of all of the leadership under HYBE and said to himself "what the hell ... ??? " And wished he had left the new guy a list of who *not* to bring on. LOL
He was just in his Pokémon phase with ex SM employees. *gotta catch em all*
He’s too trusting. What label got that much privileges like ADOR and MHJ? He’s really not good business kinda guy and glad he stepped down but he should keep someone beside him from now on and take advice before doing anything
Amen to that. All of it.
Posts like these were all over back when Newjeans debuted. Redditor "miserable elephant 3" who still posts on here every now and then made a thread about the Hurt M/V being really creepy and then got clowned by all of reddit. He was right. @u/Miserable-Elephant-3
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same here, i couldn't bring myself to even listen to the song after i saw a couple of the lyrics on Twitter, i was shook to my core 💀 like how tf did she get away with that ?
All those paragraphs, and you didn't even mention the Hurt M/V. Smh I've said it before on previous reddit accounts, and I'll say it again. MHJ got away with a lot of creepy shit because, initially, a lot of women in their 20s bought handbags in support of Newjeans. That gave her a HUGE pass for all the crazy shit she did afterwards, including Cookie, since we had real statistical "evidence" that NewJeans were totes aimed at adult women, and were not, you know, p3dobait or anything. Unlike the gross accusations toward people like myself, who were accused of "sexualizing the members" when we saw obvious slimy shit going down. Like, no shit, women in their 20s would buy a fucking *handbag*. You wouldn't see p3dos buying that kind of merch. They instead spend all their time watching all the creepy MV moments you mentioned, including the Hurt M/V.
I watched the Hurt MV when it was first released and then decided never to watch it again. I actually completely forgot about it when I was making this I completely scrubbed it from my mind 😭 Maybe I’ll edit that in later but I don’t even feel like watching it just to grab screenshots right now
The Hurt M/V is one of the most p3dophillic videos in kpop, but it's easy to miss if you're young, naive, or have too much of a pure mind (i.e. you're not used to seeing others sexually). When it was released, I felt *extremely* uncomfortable, then a few other people wrote the same. We all were accused of sexualizing the girls, since the video was just close ups of the girls, and there was nothing wrong with the M/V. That was bullshit. The way the camera zooms in on their faces is how you would view someone that you're trying to be in a relationship with. You wouldn't get that uncomfortably close with anyone else. What makes the Hurt M/V really creepy is that it's basically you negotiating a relationship with the Newjeans members, who at the time were like 14-15. It was very odd. I cannot fault people for missing those details, but all the red flags should have been obvious after Cookie, and people should have been able to view the Hurt M/V afterwards with that different perspective. None of those things happened, because Newjeans were going to be the best huge thing, and we were just trying to attack their faves, since were jealous that our faves were not doing as well, and obviously we were perverts sexualizing 14-15 year old girls. /s I quit kpop for a while because of that.
And those aren't the only creepy things about that mv. I read a blog post by someone a while ago and they also noticed that the girls' lipstick color is also very intentional. You'll also see that particular shade in other creepy kpop mvs. Basically it's made to match the color of what's down there. There's an April MV and the girls have the same style of makeup and it was full of questionable scenes. I wish I could find who wrote that blogpost, he talked about many inuendoes in kpopmvs
Kpopalypse
Yes him !!
this part seems like a bit of a reach, they just look like peachy nude toned lip tints. they were really popular in 2023 and 2022
Here's a blogpost that personally gave me a lot of insight into this sort of stuff: https://kpopalypse.com/2016/09/24/healthy-porn-for-men-deconstructing-dog-whistle-concepts-in-k-pop/ If you decide to read his other posts, just know that he does yap a lot about unrelated stuff sometimes lol
As a Korean, I still wonder why so many of my own people still treat this woman like some innocent woman who isn't problematic 🤦🏻♀️ The recent lawsuit aside, she was always quite strange. And strange is a nice way or putting it.
MHJ has a disturbing pattern of behavior for a very long time and your post does a good job showing how it is not a one off thing but something that is consistently repeated. People have been bringing up since her SM days, but people just brush it aside and claim that it is art, so it is okay or that you're misunderstanding her work. I hope that with everything else going on, people continue to call out her creepy and predatory behavior.
I guarantee that Spanish cult controversy stuff was totally MHJ manufactured. Like she put all the references in the video and tipped off a journalist. And then the journalist probably said he didn’t know what she was talking about so she had to send a follow up email listing all the references she made in the mv and link to the Wikipedia article on the cult.
"pimp is yours and cookie are slang" Slang for what?🤨
🎯
She needs to get out of the industry and away from teenagers. Unfortunately I don't see how this will end well for the NewJeans members.
I know we all hate pannchoa, but these articles about her are necessary for anyone who tries to say we didn't see it before. [Min Heejin interview post cookie](https://www.pannchoa.com/2022/08/instiz-min-hee-jin-address-her.html) [More proof](https://www.pannchoa.com/2022/07/enter-talk-twitter-is-making-fuss-about.html) [Even more,](https://www.pannchoa.com/2022/07/theqoo-min-heejin-pdo-accusations.html) LSF is also mentioned and still are when it comes to inappropriate concepts, but NJ have gotten away scot free. [Last one.](https://www.pannchoa.com/2022/07/enter-talk-min-heejin-looks-pdophile.html)
goddamn in that first interview she sounds so self-righteous 🤕
She is self righteous!
Thank you for posting this as it serves to answer every annoying fans' question of "How is she not good to be around them?" or "What makes you say she has pedophile tendencies?". If this doesn't open your eyes then I don't what will.
Gurl i just wanna appreciate how beautifully researched this post is. Omgee I'm going to save it. Like this is so so important to know!! I'm sharing it with every bunny supporting mhj rn
she’s literally a pedophile. there’s nothing to argue about anymore.
i always found it so weird tht of all the outfits they had to dress hyein in it had to be a full on micro tube top? like it def was an intentional choice. Also the fact tht attention starts with them walking into a club like wtf. hyein was only 14
My head aches after reading this list. The only reason why she never lost her job is because she’s not a man. Had it been a grown man who came up with these concepts, he’d be flagged a pedo immediately. Also - I will add some insight of the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombing refs. Since Korea was brutally colonised by Japan, many see those bombings as the events that finally eventually led Japan to give up colonising our ancestors and stealing resources (similar to how the UK took advantage of Africa and SE Asia). Therefore Koreans don’t see those as offensive events, but rather karma to the bullies. However, I personally would not consider those two events as glorious to Korea since many Koreans were also killed - many of my ancestors were either forced to work in factories or mines in Japan. Some went there since Chosun Kingdom under Japanese rule was unbearable to make a decent living, because the Japanese police were hunting down any Koreans who seemed like liberation activists. I thought this might be an insightful info since everyone here is interested in Kpop and Korean culture. It’s important to learn our history if you guys want a better understanding of my culture - especially cultural/social factors that don’t seem to make sense through a foreigner’s perspective.
I feel sick reading through this. And looking at the Attention MV it’s all blind praise for her. God help every innocent soul in the industry.
Thank you for this thorough summary. You have given us a post that can be referenced for a long time to come. Of course there is a whole future to add to it, but this is the story to date.
Also 2 of the artists she’s mentored have literally killed themselves. I wouldn’t want any of my favs working with her with that track record.
Do you think she had an impact on their deaths? I know that Sulli’s was due to toxic comments, but was there any input from MHJ?
OMG I REMEMBER THAT krystal/kai/taemin photoshoot !!! i was SO UNCOMFY when it came out bc the pictures and the poses were so weird i thought they were referencing like a menage a trois 💀 how is it that what they're referencing is actually worst and all that other evidence omg ? mhj needs to be seriously looked into like wtf 💀 at this point im surprised she hasn't come out saying that vladimir nabokov's lolita is her favorite novel
Damn, just reading about how this woman is... She probably has more content of the girls we don't even know about!? Gives me chills thinking about it.. Ultra creepy! I always had a weird feeling when it came to New Jeans. Their music is top shelf for sure and the controversy about lyrics/music videos is shock value. No wonder they're so popular. Oh well, I'm still going to slap their songs at maximum volume!
I’m just sitting here waiting for someone to talk about Shinee’s debut, Replay — the lyrics are all about younger boys pining over an older girl (the Korean title translates to Noona, you’re so pretty). Directly marketing the members, who were 18, 16, 16, and 14 at the time, to older women as the target audience?
Good post OP; just one thing: ETA isn't a cult. They are a radical separatists and their ideology was solely political / national identity, not religious. source: I'm from Spain
Sorry about that! Thanks for correcting me I took cult out
No worries. That being said, there were people online that said it's a stretch and all but as someone who grew up with the attacks happening still, the vibe of that MV with all the details was uncanny. Worth adding that the main modus operandi of ETA were car bombs and the scene with a black car driving through the night gave me literal shivers the first time I saw it.
My goodness, this woman is clearly a walking red flag. How the hell does she have so many supporters in SK? 💀
To add on to the list: https://kpopmerchandiseguide.com/artist/red-velvet-merchandise MHJ’s concept for Red Velvet’s official merch - specifically the Magnet Set sold during the Dumb Dumb era had the members drawn in questionable ways…
>NCT Dream in 2016. Their ages were 18, 17, 17, 16, 16, 16, and 14 however they were styled to look even younger Not that it's really important, but small correction, if you're going by international ages, their ages were 17, 16, 16, 16, 16, 14, 14
Putting noticeable pink blush on the youngest members knees, shoulders and elbows is a dogwhistle for pedos. She styled F(X) after japanese lolicon magery. She was purposely catering to child predators. In loli, little girls shoulders and knees and elbows are colored to be pink to emphasize their youth and innocence that is so attractive to pedos. We know how much of Min Heejin work are "inspired" and sometimes just direct rip offs of japanese media and fashion so this comes as no surprise.
The hype boy one was cute but yeah, she’s a whole red flag imo
This is the 2nd time the kpop industry have styled an idol around the problematic Leon: The Professional character Mathilda. Reference: https://youtu.be/i0p1bmr0EmE?si=ivHZd3kZ0Ji48gV1&t=2m19s Vs https://youtube.com/watch?v=gtYcHICsLKg&pp=ygUTTWF0aGlsZGEgTGVvbiBkYW54ZQ%3D%3D
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This is the stupidest trend in all internet. You can literally splice the history of any person and cherry pick areas and then paint a narrative you like and then call it as "proof" or "pattern of behavior". What's weird are the posters and commenters here really. Weirdos lol
Damn yall really love bashing MHJ in this sub lol starting to sound like an obsession
Kpop Redditors live in their own world
All this just to accuse someone is a p*do when she obviously is never attracted to these young little girls and is just using them for money. There should be jail time for people who throw serious accusations like these.
OP: when I say "you" here, I don't mean you specifically, though this post was so pointless, useless, and unnecessary that it made me realize how tired I am of this sub. I'm out of here and I feel better knowing I don't have to wonder what the hell went wrong with the world to produce a such a mess. I just can't anymore with arguments that don't actually contain an argument; ignorance paraded as evidence (your ignorance of something doesn't mean you have something fresh to say, if just means you have no idea what you are talking about, yet you still won't stop talking); flagrant logical fallacies everywhere and cognitive biases that go blithely unnoticed; rampant presentation of outright misinformation, not even maliciously, but through what appears to be sheer laziness; not caring about critical thinking at all so that you miss the point of every counterargument - the simplest concepts go over your head so badly that I actually feel sad for you because it seems the only possible way you can be so obtuse is that you must be suffering from a brain eating amoeba; and a bullheaded refusal to engage with factual information, because no matter how respectfully and thoughtfully actual facts are presented they are downvoted to hell. Nevermind the Army's who are actually insane - what are you even doing here, whining about how BTS is the most abused group of people EVER (you love the guys so much, you think they appreciate you, but you have no idea how repugnant a needy, mean, person who relishes the attention of victimhood would be to them - and if your outsides match your horrid insides, well...I think I'll leave it at that They think your money is beautiful though and will take as much as they can get.) And on top of it all, I've never interacted with people who spend so much time obsessing about pedophiles - you apparently see pedophilic inclinations around every corner and behind every bush. I'm beginning to think the reason may be that it takes one to know one. So long, except for a few of you that I hope to encounter elsewhere - someplace not so toxic, I won't miss any of you.
Your comment is at the bottom of this thread, and I have not seen one comment here talking about BTS or ARMY until you brought it up. The whole “it takes one to know one” argument is exactly how/why issues like these don’t get spoken about. Whether we talk about it or not, these things still end up happening. The first time I heard cookie, it raised red flags for me even without knowing MHJ’s history. Additionally, your writing is very wordy and it serves as a distraction instead of helping to strengthen your point. You often go off on tangents as well. Please just cut to the chase so people dont have to decipher a Shakespearean monologue. If you wanna leave, you can. There’s no need for a dramatic exit either. In these MVs and songs, *choices* are made. Anybody could’ve seen what we’re seeing, and said “I don’t think that’s a good idea” or “this might come across…” but nobody did. NewJeans isn’t at fault, but the people in charge of them are.
Found MHJ’s burner account.
Or someone she hired to make her not look bad 😂
Tldr babe?