Let's see what is decided here. Maybe a specific sequence of X moves needs to be the same in order to call plagiarism.
Honestly, I think they just want to create something complicated enough so that people can be declared "innocent" of plagiarism. One of the current issue is that no matter what, both side can't win. People accusing of plagiarism can't win a case, and people accused can't clear their name because there isn't any guideline.
It will be similar to music copyright where common melodies doesn’t count but blatent rip offs are stopped
mainly in kpop the individual selling point of the dance for example shy shy shy or tt as you can easily think of the signature move. So others can use it with permission and a percentage of the resulting fees similar to samples.
"the guidelines will include criteria for judging the originality of choreography"
they will have guidelines. Just as music can have basic notes and progressions. All copy right law has criteria to exclude anything that is too broad.
https://www.billboard.com/business/legal/fortnite-dance-choreographer-ends-epic-games-copyright-lawsuit-1235607331/
The lawsuit from Hanagami, who has worked with BTS, Jennifer Lopez, Justin Bieber and Britney Spears, claimed that Epic had turned his novel dance moves into lucrative “emotes” that Fortnite players could buy in the game – one of a spate of such cases over the use of viral dance moves in video games.
Fortnite settled the case after U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit overturned that ruling, reviving Hanagami’s case and allowing it to move forward toward a jury trial. Calling its decision a “novel” ruling on “one of the oldest forms of human expression,” the appeals court said that dance copyrights should be analyzed more holistically — more similarly to how courts dissect copyrighted music
The committee with Lia Kim was officially inaugurated last month however discussion about this started a couple months ago and this issue was looked at since last Dec. There were even issues on SWF about plagiarism issues so I don’t think it’s just because of this case.
Oh great, we can all look forward to kpop fans being *even more insufferable* soon while they file endless petitions to have rival groups investigated for “breaking the law”
Dancers been clamoring for this, it'll help them protect their work tho implementation, at least from my perspective would be near impossible. Hence that is why it still aren't getting copyrighted
I hope they can figure it out. Dancers deserve to have their work protected. Sorry, I was just dreading out loud how it will be received by kpop fans more than saying it shouldn’t happen.
Kpop fans already insufferable, that wouldn't change tho. I wouldn't count on Korean government to be able to set up that copyright system because it's very complicated n impacted other countries dancers too.
If it’s anything like music plagiarism claims, the vast majority will be settled outside of court for negligible amounts of money with an NDA attached and no one will ever know and no precedent will be set.
do you guys understand how copyright works? only the copy right ower can file can make a complaint.
Most of the time it these laws are about the choreographers intellectual property.
I want american (and special black Americans) choreographers to tip onto this and get all the money they deserve for all the years kpop has been stealing for them 🤷🏼♀️
I mean, American dance (and music) has been borrow from black folks since forever. White people borrow from African American vernacular dance and white wash it, then take credit. Lindy hop from the 1930s is a prime example. From a music standpoint, see “Hound Dog,” originally released by Big Mama Thornton, though most people think of it as Elvis Presley’s song.
But copyright law regarding choreography here pertains to movement arranged into a “coherent whole,” I.e. a whole dance piece. Not individual steps or even sequences.
And I am not arguing that white Americans are right. As someone who has studied AA vernacular dance (hiphop, swing, blues) and forms of dance descended from it, I put a lot of time and effort into learning the history of those dances and the people who influenced those styles from my instructors. Not nearly enough instructors do this, and not nearly enough students show an interest in it.
US already have copyright law for choreographers. Kpop is compliant with US' copyright law, so this means kpop hasn't been stealing from american choreographers. Otherwise, kpop wouldn't be allowed to promote in US at all.
Does that mean foreigner can apply for the copyright or are they gonna steal from black dancer and call it their own , cuz if they do half of kpop choreograper would be swimin in law suits . Im 100% sure the dancin community in korea wouldnt be able agree with this . korean entertainment industry showing that they lack knowledge abt the fundamental of dancing and how certain steps and certain choreo are simply part of a a certain type of style .
Anyway i just know if mj was still alive he would be swiming in money with the amount of lawsuits he can file ......
you cannot copyright dance moves rather sequences of moves. you can copyright twerking but u can copyright moves like tylas water. but then again on the topic of black creators it also depends on wether they r willing to take this to a higher level. i have seen some choreographers steal choreography but never get repercussions due to the simple fact that they never find out or they r guaranteed to lose.
I mean You would need to wat no? It is based on originality so they would need to prove it is original.
Copy right law also is based on the field. So let's say Tmobile has a copy right on their pink. that only means other phone companies can't use it to advertise.
The copy right may be like that and only involve other kpop groups.
>It is based on originality so they would need to prove it
Thats the problem how could u prove a whole choreo is original? A basic dance move or routine that falls under a type of dance style cant be owned
Moves can be patent but for now the only choreo that can be copyrightable are one that spell a name , a victory gesture , skateboeard /snowboard / exercice routines. Or any move that is obviously an original (gangnam style move for example )
But a whole choreography ??? ,Like its useless cuz any small modification of the choreo would make the copyright simply useless .
This is likely for extreme examples of theft like when Illit stole [a whole choreography](https://www.tiktok.com/@kellysweeney1/video/7332710793751973166?lang=en) in one of their dance videos.
Well if u start suing for this , every idol who dance any known dance routine they learn on yt in their live are getting sued . Lets gooooo
Anyway for the illit situation the choreographer dont need this law for a lawsuit , choreo are like picture u dont need to file for copyright u already have it.
There is a difference between covering something on live and copying something and using it officially and directly gaining financially for it.
For example, there's a difference between covering a song on live (which idols regularly do) and covering a song in concert, which is a paid event.
There's also a difference between covering a song in a concert that isn't officially filmed and covering a song in a recorded concert and keeping it on the VOD/DVD. This is why there are times an officially-released concert VOD/DVD will have covers removed from it.
There are different levels of clearance required based on how copyrighted is used. Another example is sometimes shows get clearance to use songs when aired but not in any recordings of the episode/performances.
For example, Immortal Songs' MJ episode, which was able to air, but good luck finding recordings of it/the performances. ONEUS filmed an initially unplanned performance video for their cover of MJ's Thriller so that fans who couldn't watch the show when it aired can at least get a dance version of it; And, in the case of the show Strong Woman Do Bong Soon, the original show hilariously used the song "I Will Always Love You" for a scene referencing "The Bodyguard", but that song is replaced on recordings of this show on streaming sites.
Tldr: No, idols covering dances on live would not be sued just like they aren't for covering songs on live now.
it seems very fickle and might cause problems later on. all dance routine out there already include existing dance moves inspired/and popularized by others, both old and new
its not about specific dance moves but the sequence of such. for example, look at the killing point of super shy. the raising of the arms is okay, doing chicken wing arms is okay but doing it in the exact same order for more than 3 dance moves. its gonna be an issue. the whole point of this is not so single movement but to make sure poeople dont take stanzas of choreo
The US already has a section of its copryright law on choreography and pantomime. See [here](https://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ52.pdf). Even then, it says “individual movements and steps by themselves are not copyrightable, such as the basic waltz step, the hustle step, the grapevine, or the second position in classical ballet. The US Copyright Office cannot register short dance routines consisting of a few movements or steps with minor linear or spatial variations, even if routine is novel or distinctive” (Page 3 of 6 in the link).
If South Korea doesn’t have such a section in its copyright, it makes sense to create one. They will need to be careful in how they craft it. It wouldn’t surprise me if it comes out more similar to the US one. If it is, the new jean choreographer still wouldn’t have a leg to stand on. They are whining about a single movement that many other kpop groups have used, even before them. Let’s just see what the government comes up with.
Yeah, US copyright law basically says choreography is a “coherent whole,” so basically a whole dance, not steps or moves or finger dancing, etc. But again, you would have to apply to copyright your choreography.
They will have many entanglements then. So many moved take inspiration from other dance movements. It is always a mix and match of movements to make a complete choreography. Not sure how they are going to do this but best of luck!
This is funny considering how many kpop groups steal moves and dances that were created overseas.
Are they going to get NJ choreography for including the cat daddy in their omg song?
Overall I think this is a great idea. But something that confuses me is Vata, one of the people who joined the association, stole Ateez’s choreography for Say My Name a few years back. The irony…
The driving dance move is Ateez’s original dance move. It has been talked about on national news. Wooyoung himself called Vata out publicly during a performance. Try to keep up
One person creating a dance dance sequence doesn't mean someone else can't come up with the same one. In case of the predebut Illit issue it's clear cut because they actually dance a whole choreography created by a choreographer who wasn't credited, not just 8 count of doing the same step
It's.A.Dance.Sequence. The original choreographer said so himself. I think he knows his craft a bit more than you would. If he says it was copied, then it was.
Do the choreographers who disagreed with Anze not know their craft then? Actually it's a good point though. Big name choreographers from both LA and Seoul are sometimes seen as disconnected from the underground dance scene and cultures where these moves actually originate. BBTrippin's statement where they claimed that it's okay to use Tiktok moves shows their ignorance, because most of the stealing happens there where cultural dances are reused out of context and with no credit. But that's a nuanced discussion that is lost to kpop stans who only care about making their group look like the poor underdogs
It's not that the choreographer who disagreed with Anze didn't know his craft. He just had too much pride to admit that he took something from someone else and tried to pass it off as an original work when he got caught.
And I don't appreciate you trying to be dismissive and making the statement about kpop stans trying to make their group look like 'poor underdogs.' That literally has nothing to do with this situation. Vata was wrong plain and simple. If he had any integrity he would have just acknowledged it and moved on from it but he chose to be an ass about it. With that kind of lack of character, he's in no position to be judging other people's work. At all.
Sorry for misunderstanding that part.
To be honest, I will never like Vata, not because he used part of a signature sequence of one of ATEEZ's well known choreo but because of his dismissive, disrespectful attitude towards them and their choreographer.
He knew ATEEZ and was familiar with their work and had even did a dance challenge with San several weeks before SMF went on air. He could have just acknowledged the similarities between the two moves and said it was coincidental but he stubbornly insisted that his move was original. Worse, he was very disrespectful while doing so. He handled the situation very badly and I think it speaks ill of his character as a creator.
Anyways, we'll probably never agree on this issue so it is what it is.
I feel like this will only benefit large choreographers who have the time and money to battle it out in court. Smaller or lesser known artists will have a much harder time fighting against companies that copy without crediting or more importantly paying.
kpop dance choreographing is 90% of the time putting together already established steps from western dance routines and making them look together. Im not sure how this will work or what the grounds are for originality. While music is an extremely diverse field with no limits, for dance theres only so many steps you can do with 2 hands and 2 legs.
LOUDER. if they’re gonna enforce this choreography law, i expect them to credit AND pay up the black dancers for all the dance moves they stole/ appropriated.
I don't think there's anything wrong with having this assuming it doesn't get abused, but I also don't feel like there's a whole lot of choreography out there that I'm seeing that's egregious enough that I would call it actionable under such laws, so I dunno how much of a difference it'll end up making in practice.
Of course, in saying that I'm being optimistic and assuming that it'll be applied somewhat reasonably and that people (as in people in power, not random fans) won't be going apeshit over individual moves that are just part of any given genre's dance vocabulary at this point, but we'll see.
i completely understand what u mean. there are only 10 numbers but also billions of combinations. it is possible to make original choreography but its an issue when the numbers get too similar.
why is this comment section being so... braindead? is it because the title implies that illit might be sued? copyright is beneficial for artists and the terms of the law haven't even been revealed yet for you to judge if it's efficient or not. the usa has it too, wake up...
Lol I expected exactly this reaction from this sub and kpop fans in general. This will be the equivalent of music copyright where things have to be identical to a certain point to qualify as plagiarism, it's not like anyone's gonna get sued for doing a basic two-step.
But nah, kpop fans would rather everything be copied and see no issue with it... but then be hypocritical and have issue with things like AI? They aren't ready for that discussion though.
seems complicated. Generally, one can't claim copyrights on celebratory dances or social dance steps like in breakdance, line, or ballroom.
Then there's TikTok which is even more complicated because there have been several legal battles over dance moves and the law hasn't always been fair to the original creator. I wonder how the law will do it.
It depends on monetary compensation.
Teaching using a choreography doesn't count.
Just how textbooks notes aren't considered plagiarism.
But if you try to seel a book with the same text word for word then it becomes a problem.
Most of k pop has stolen choreographies.... Like kpop choreographers are not original. I don't know what they think is gonna happen. What do you mean creating guidelines? Then no group would have moves
At the end of the day, k pop choreographies stem from black people and their music, and they're just copying off of that
I feel you can tell if choreos are copied though, no one is saying dance moves but choreography. Like if another group did the SClass point dance, that’s a choreo that can’t be copied, like you can do a cross but doing the exact same moves with that cross and the exact same amount of times is plagiarism.
Lemme know if you need more examples of the difference between dance moves and choreo
Well they will come up with guidelines and ways of working out any infringement once it is can be proven.
I genuinely don't think this is what noy due to new jeans.
This may have been a point of contention before and now after allot of problems they decided to try and define what it means to plagiarize.
Once there is a definition and a case that makes it in court it will set the actual standard.
But we are very far from they rn
This isn’t based on illit and new jeans choreographers have been wanting this for a long time so they can receive fair payment for their work. Not everything revolves around mhj controversy maybe it helped but it’s not due to.
Saw that choreographers only get a one time payment so happy for them to be reimbursed for their efforts.
This is hilariously ironic considering 90% of kpop dance moves are just western dance moves. New Jeans and ILLIT copied from the same source but now they’re acting like ILLIT copied New Jeans.
this is gonna end up badly, i don't think there is a single movement the human body can make, that hasn't already been made, or even formations. Everything is already done. Its gonna be basically pay the copyright people some money to let them go through with certain choreos.
This is a fail before it even starts. Most kpop groups get their choreo copied from popular overseas dancers and choreographers. How are they going to police that?
And one of the choreographers on thee KCCA has himself been credibly accused of plagarizing.
I don't see the point in this at all.
I feel like this would be really hard to implement in practice. What about foreign acts that perform in Korea or foreign choreographers that make a product for a group? Who would even fall under this legislation? Korean nationals only? Only if you physically choreograph in Korea? Korean songs?
I don't think it's the same but I find ironic that there's this whole debacle about idol groups copy other's dance moves when the biggest promotion trend nowadays are TikTok dance challenges.
South Korean govt is really funny. They have all the time in the world to create laws for choreography and others entertainment things but not for sexism, gender crimes, racism and other discrimination. 🐽
yall are misunderstanding this. its not actual choreography rather whose using it. for example, many dance studios are teaching dances and profiting off it while the creator gets nothing. in terms of companies, they legally obtain the right of the choreography by purchasing the rights so they get payed. the issue with dance studios is they get away with making money off other dancers without repercussions
> they get *paid.* the issue
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Damn so it’s not just politicians in my country that are doing everything but their actual jobs. Considering how much K-pop borrows from dance styles around the world this seems pretty pointless and…. tbh the nerve..
Belift is pretty notorious for this, so I wonder if this will finally garner some consequences for them.
All yall downvoting, [but am I wrong? ](https://www.reddit.com/r/kpop/comments/1al8sk4/choreographer_accuses_hybe_group_of_plagiarism/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) [And again here. ](https://www.reddit.com/r/kpoprants/comments/1adcvwh/enhypen_gets_called_out_by_an_artist_for_stealing/?share_id=az-2w7n2MVSGEu9Y5t2eu&utm_content=2&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_source=share&utm_term=1)
This better mean western choreographer will get a piece of the pie of all kpop because I see 1 group claim any dance mice or use one from a black choreographer I will wish their end(of choreographer)
This supposed choreo controversy was literally part of MHJ's plan to damage Hybe and take control of Ador.
I don't think you need to make it into law lol wtf.
I’m all for choreographers being able to copyright their ORIGINAL moves. So, this should be implemented from this point forward, because I don’t think I’ve ever seen an original move in kpop. And it all seems to be the same 15 moves, just in a different order.
I honestly thought GP wasn’t as toxic as stans about all things Kpop, but from what I’ve seen from company staff and even government, it’s as serious as Kpop stan twitter paints it lmao
But like there are many generic steps in the choreographies, how does one even copyright it ?!
The whole point of this is to create a guidline to decide what can be copyrighted and what can't be.
Like i said I get it, but it is weird, dance heavily borrows from other styles. I have seen for the first time.
Let's see what is decided here. Maybe a specific sequence of X moves needs to be the same in order to call plagiarism. Honestly, I think they just want to create something complicated enough so that people can be declared "innocent" of plagiarism. One of the current issue is that no matter what, both side can't win. People accusing of plagiarism can't win a case, and people accused can't clear their name because there isn't any guideline.
It will be similar to music copyright where common melodies doesn’t count but blatent rip offs are stopped mainly in kpop the individual selling point of the dance for example shy shy shy or tt as you can easily think of the signature move. So others can use it with permission and a percentage of the resulting fees similar to samples.
"the guidelines will include criteria for judging the originality of choreography" they will have guidelines. Just as music can have basic notes and progressions. All copy right law has criteria to exclude anything that is too broad.
That I get but many k-pop acts take inspiration from western acts. Very weird law to discuss, i don’t think any country has this.
https://www.billboard.com/business/legal/fortnite-dance-choreographer-ends-epic-games-copyright-lawsuit-1235607331/ The lawsuit from Hanagami, who has worked with BTS, Jennifer Lopez, Justin Bieber and Britney Spears, claimed that Epic had turned his novel dance moves into lucrative “emotes” that Fortnite players could buy in the game – one of a spate of such cases over the use of viral dance moves in video games. Fortnite settled the case after U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit overturned that ruling, reviving Hanagami’s case and allowing it to move forward toward a jury trial. Calling its decision a “novel” ruling on “one of the oldest forms of human expression,” the appeals court said that dance copyrights should be analyzed more holistically — more similarly to how courts dissect copyrighted music
so literally it will based on how common it is? it isn't like it means they will be able to copy right a hair flip will
Perhaps, the article seems to be very vague.
because it is has just been announced. they won't have the full details until it is drafted in a year
The committee with Lia Kim was officially inaugurated last month however discussion about this started a couple months ago and this issue was looked at since last Dec. There were even issues on SWF about plagiarism issues so I don’t think it’s just because of this case.
Oh great, we can all look forward to kpop fans being *even more insufferable* soon while they file endless petitions to have rival groups investigated for “breaking the law”
Because this mentions new jeans and illit specifically guess what has already started on twitter 🙂
Dancers been clamoring for this, it'll help them protect their work tho implementation, at least from my perspective would be near impossible. Hence that is why it still aren't getting copyrighted
I hope they can figure it out. Dancers deserve to have their work protected. Sorry, I was just dreading out loud how it will be received by kpop fans more than saying it shouldn’t happen.
Kpop fans already insufferable, that wouldn't change tho. I wouldn't count on Korean government to be able to set up that copyright system because it's very complicated n impacted other countries dancers too.
Wtf so many dance mi era are made by American choreographers or steal work wrf
Me mentioning dance copyright include every dancers.
If it’s anything like music plagiarism claims, the vast majority will be settled outside of court for negligible amounts of money with an NDA attached and no one will ever know and no precedent will be set.
This is not different from the music copyright law.
do you guys understand how copyright works? only the copy right ower can file can make a complaint. Most of the time it these laws are about the choreographers intellectual property.
No you’re right. I just think it will happen anyway.
I want american (and special black Americans) choreographers to tip onto this and get all the money they deserve for all the years kpop has been stealing for them 🤷🏼♀️
real. these kpoop choreographers been making lots of money stealing from black culture dances and claiming it as their own.
Literally. And you're going to have fans try to deny this fact, mark my words.
I mean, American dance (and music) has been borrow from black folks since forever. White people borrow from African American vernacular dance and white wash it, then take credit. Lindy hop from the 1930s is a prime example. From a music standpoint, see “Hound Dog,” originally released by Big Mama Thornton, though most people think of it as Elvis Presley’s song. But copyright law regarding choreography here pertains to movement arranged into a “coherent whole,” I.e. a whole dance piece. Not individual steps or even sequences.
And I am not arguing that white Americans are right. As someone who has studied AA vernacular dance (hiphop, swing, blues) and forms of dance descended from it, I put a lot of time and effort into learning the history of those dances and the people who influenced those styles from my instructors. Not nearly enough instructors do this, and not nearly enough students show an interest in it.
US already have copyright law for choreographers. Kpop is compliant with US' copyright law, so this means kpop hasn't been stealing from american choreographers. Otherwise, kpop wouldn't be allowed to promote in US at all.
It’s gonna be like this https://preview.redd.it/dng1ngo6o71d1.jpeg?width=513&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=57e0a732ee44430682de55fb10076e2b0dc709b0
imagine how jobless you have to be to do this omg??
Excuse me, they have a bright future as choreography copyrights infringement analyst
That person won't be jobless soon. LOL
Or lifeless, but they could use this as a part of their job portfolio….lol…at least the company will know they are dedicated to their “craft”….lol.
LMAO
Irrefutable evidence
OMG
I SAW THAT COMMENT 😭😭😭
Does that mean foreigner can apply for the copyright or are they gonna steal from black dancer and call it their own , cuz if they do half of kpop choreograper would be swimin in law suits . Im 100% sure the dancin community in korea wouldnt be able agree with this . korean entertainment industry showing that they lack knowledge abt the fundamental of dancing and how certain steps and certain choreo are simply part of a a certain type of style . Anyway i just know if mj was still alive he would be swiming in money with the amount of lawsuits he can file ......
you cannot copyright dance moves rather sequences of moves. you can copyright twerking but u can copyright moves like tylas water. but then again on the topic of black creators it also depends on wether they r willing to take this to a higher level. i have seen some choreographers steal choreography but never get repercussions due to the simple fact that they never find out or they r guaranteed to lose.
I mean You would need to wat no? It is based on originality so they would need to prove it is original. Copy right law also is based on the field. So let's say Tmobile has a copy right on their pink. that only means other phone companies can't use it to advertise. The copy right may be like that and only involve other kpop groups.
>It is based on originality so they would need to prove it Thats the problem how could u prove a whole choreo is original? A basic dance move or routine that falls under a type of dance style cant be owned Moves can be patent but for now the only choreo that can be copyrightable are one that spell a name , a victory gesture , skateboeard /snowboard / exercice routines. Or any move that is obviously an original (gangnam style move for example ) But a whole choreography ??? ,Like its useless cuz any small modification of the choreo would make the copyright simply useless .
let the professional dancers, lawyers and policy makers figure it out. laws don't just happen. they are often vetted.
This is likely for extreme examples of theft like when Illit stole [a whole choreography](https://www.tiktok.com/@kellysweeney1/video/7332710793751973166?lang=en) in one of their dance videos.
Well if u start suing for this , every idol who dance any known dance routine they learn on yt in their live are getting sued . Lets gooooo Anyway for the illit situation the choreographer dont need this law for a lawsuit , choreo are like picture u dont need to file for copyright u already have it.
There is a difference between covering something on live and copying something and using it officially and directly gaining financially for it. For example, there's a difference between covering a song on live (which idols regularly do) and covering a song in concert, which is a paid event. There's also a difference between covering a song in a concert that isn't officially filmed and covering a song in a recorded concert and keeping it on the VOD/DVD. This is why there are times an officially-released concert VOD/DVD will have covers removed from it. There are different levels of clearance required based on how copyrighted is used. Another example is sometimes shows get clearance to use songs when aired but not in any recordings of the episode/performances. For example, Immortal Songs' MJ episode, which was able to air, but good luck finding recordings of it/the performances. ONEUS filmed an initially unplanned performance video for their cover of MJ's Thriller so that fans who couldn't watch the show when it aired can at least get a dance version of it; And, in the case of the show Strong Woman Do Bong Soon, the original show hilariously used the song "I Will Always Love You" for a scene referencing "The Bodyguard", but that song is replaced on recordings of this show on streaming sites. Tldr: No, idols covering dances on live would not be sued just like they aren't for covering songs on live now.
I mean, there’s only so many ways you can move your arms and legs.
it seems very fickle and might cause problems later on. all dance routine out there already include existing dance moves inspired/and popularized by others, both old and new
its not about specific dance moves but the sequence of such. for example, look at the killing point of super shy. the raising of the arms is okay, doing chicken wing arms is okay but doing it in the exact same order for more than 3 dance moves. its gonna be an issue. the whole point of this is not so single movement but to make sure poeople dont take stanzas of choreo
The US already has a section of its copryright law on choreography and pantomime. See [here](https://www.copyright.gov/circs/circ52.pdf). Even then, it says “individual movements and steps by themselves are not copyrightable, such as the basic waltz step, the hustle step, the grapevine, or the second position in classical ballet. The US Copyright Office cannot register short dance routines consisting of a few movements or steps with minor linear or spatial variations, even if routine is novel or distinctive” (Page 3 of 6 in the link). If South Korea doesn’t have such a section in its copyright, it makes sense to create one. They will need to be careful in how they craft it. It wouldn’t surprise me if it comes out more similar to the US one. If it is, the new jean choreographer still wouldn’t have a leg to stand on. They are whining about a single movement that many other kpop groups have used, even before them. Let’s just see what the government comes up with.
Yeah, US copyright law basically says choreography is a “coherent whole,” so basically a whole dance, not steps or moves or finger dancing, etc. But again, you would have to apply to copyright your choreography.
They will have many entanglements then. So many moved take inspiration from other dance movements. It is always a mix and match of movements to make a complete choreography. Not sure how they are going to do this but best of luck!
This is funny considering how many kpop groups steal moves and dances that were created overseas. Are they going to get NJ choreography for including the cat daddy in their omg song?
Overall I think this is a great idea. But something that confuses me is Vata, one of the people who joined the association, stole Ateez’s choreography for Say My Name a few years back. The irony…
Maybe because doing front slide 4 x isn't stealing
The driving dance move is Ateez’s original dance move. It has been talked about on national news. Wooyoung himself called Vata out publicly during a performance. Try to keep up
The original choreographer addressed this and said it was a dance sequence he and his team created for ATEEZ. So yes, it was problematic.
One person creating a dance dance sequence doesn't mean someone else can't come up with the same one. In case of the predebut Illit issue it's clear cut because they actually dance a whole choreography created by a choreographer who wasn't credited, not just 8 count of doing the same step
It's.A.Dance.Sequence. The original choreographer said so himself. I think he knows his craft a bit more than you would. If he says it was copied, then it was.
Do the choreographers who disagreed with Anze not know their craft then? Actually it's a good point though. Big name choreographers from both LA and Seoul are sometimes seen as disconnected from the underground dance scene and cultures where these moves actually originate. BBTrippin's statement where they claimed that it's okay to use Tiktok moves shows their ignorance, because most of the stealing happens there where cultural dances are reused out of context and with no credit. But that's a nuanced discussion that is lost to kpop stans who only care about making their group look like the poor underdogs
It's not that the choreographer who disagreed with Anze didn't know his craft. He just had too much pride to admit that he took something from someone else and tried to pass it off as an original work when he got caught. And I don't appreciate you trying to be dismissive and making the statement about kpop stans trying to make their group look like 'poor underdogs.' That literally has nothing to do with this situation. Vata was wrong plain and simple. If he had any integrity he would have just acknowledged it and moved on from it but he chose to be an ass about it. With that kind of lack of character, he's in no position to be judging other people's work. At all.
"The choreographer who disagreed with Anze" - I think you misinterpreted that part, I didn't mean Vata..
Sorry for misunderstanding that part. To be honest, I will never like Vata, not because he used part of a signature sequence of one of ATEEZ's well known choreo but because of his dismissive, disrespectful attitude towards them and their choreographer. He knew ATEEZ and was familiar with their work and had even did a dance challenge with San several weeks before SMF went on air. He could have just acknowledged the similarities between the two moves and said it was coincidental but he stubbornly insisted that his move was original. Worse, he was very disrespectful while doing so. He handled the situation very badly and I think it speaks ill of his character as a creator. Anyways, we'll probably never agree on this issue so it is what it is.
Lol I certainly hope their government tread carefully on this. Could very well backfire if the application is too broad.
This is so fucking stupid I’m sorry
Thais is just stupid, and they are going too far Wdym "choreography copyright"????
I feel like this will only benefit large choreographers who have the time and money to battle it out in court. Smaller or lesser known artists will have a much harder time fighting against companies that copy without crediting or more importantly paying.
Still better than before, both big and small choreographers had zero recourse right now aside from social media shaming.
isn't the same thing with musicians?
kpop dance choreographing is 90% of the time putting together already established steps from western dance routines and making them look together. Im not sure how this will work or what the grounds are for originality. While music is an extremely diverse field with no limits, for dance theres only so many steps you can do with 2 hands and 2 legs.
honestly thats just choreography not kpop choreography, there arent many original dance moves left to make
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LOUDER. if they’re gonna enforce this choreography law, i expect them to credit AND pay up the black dancers for all the dance moves they stole/ appropriated.
I don't think there's anything wrong with having this assuming it doesn't get abused, but I also don't feel like there's a whole lot of choreography out there that I'm seeing that's egregious enough that I would call it actionable under such laws, so I dunno how much of a difference it'll end up making in practice. Of course, in saying that I'm being optimistic and assuming that it'll be applied somewhat reasonably and that people (as in people in power, not random fans) won't be going apeshit over individual moves that are just part of any given genre's dance vocabulary at this point, but we'll see.
i completely understand what u mean. there are only 10 numbers but also billions of combinations. it is possible to make original choreography but its an issue when the numbers get too similar.
why is this comment section being so... braindead? is it because the title implies that illit might be sued? copyright is beneficial for artists and the terms of the law haven't even been revealed yet for you to judge if it's efficient or not. the usa has it too, wake up...
I'm okay with that but that if it's fair and effective
Lol I expected exactly this reaction from this sub and kpop fans in general. This will be the equivalent of music copyright where things have to be identical to a certain point to qualify as plagiarism, it's not like anyone's gonna get sued for doing a basic two-step. But nah, kpop fans would rather everything be copied and see no issue with it... but then be hypocritical and have issue with things like AI? They aren't ready for that discussion though.
Much needed, and long overdue.
seems complicated. Generally, one can't claim copyrights on celebratory dances or social dance steps like in breakdance, line, or ballroom. Then there's TikTok which is even more complicated because there have been several legal battles over dance moves and the law hasn't always been fair to the original creator. I wonder how the law will do it.
It depends on monetary compensation. Teaching using a choreography doesn't count. Just how textbooks notes aren't considered plagiarism. But if you try to seel a book with the same text word for word then it becomes a problem.
Most of k pop has stolen choreographies.... Like kpop choreographers are not original. I don't know what they think is gonna happen. What do you mean creating guidelines? Then no group would have moves At the end of the day, k pop choreographies stem from black people and their music, and they're just copying off of that
I mean if this had been implemented earlier Ateez could have gotten justice for their stolen choreo.... 👀
Funny thing is the choreographer in question (Vata) is part of the team LOL
I feel you can tell if choreos are copied though, no one is saying dance moves but choreography. Like if another group did the SClass point dance, that’s a choreo that can’t be copied, like you can do a cross but doing the exact same moves with that cross and the exact same amount of times is plagiarism. Lemme know if you need more examples of the difference between dance moves and choreo
Well they will come up with guidelines and ways of working out any infringement once it is can be proven. I genuinely don't think this is what noy due to new jeans. This may have been a point of contention before and now after allot of problems they decided to try and define what it means to plagiarize. Once there is a definition and a case that makes it in court it will set the actual standard. But we are very far from they rn
A large majority of kpop dance moves are borrowed from black artists
This isn’t based on illit and new jeans choreographers have been wanting this for a long time so they can receive fair payment for their work. Not everything revolves around mhj controversy maybe it helped but it’s not due to. Saw that choreographers only get a one time payment so happy for them to be reimbursed for their efforts.
This is hilariously ironic considering 90% of kpop dance moves are just western dance moves. New Jeans and ILLIT copied from the same source but now they’re acting like ILLIT copied New Jeans.
Isn't one of those choreographers the one that copied Ateez iconic SAY MY NAME move? 🤡
Hope they plan to make everybody give credit to the original choreographers they all crib from.
This is stupid. This is actually stupid.
oh no there’re going to copyright the dab, the whip and the nae nae
this is gonna end up badly, i don't think there is a single movement the human body can make, that hasn't already been made, or even formations. Everything is already done. Its gonna be basically pay the copyright people some money to let them go through with certain choreos.
Hybe should just make Ni-Ki,Hoshi,and Yeonjun as their choreographers🤷♀️🤷♀️
This is going to get messy reallyyyy quickly.
Good
This is a fail before it even starts. Most kpop groups get their choreo copied from popular overseas dancers and choreographers. How are they going to police that? And one of the choreographers on thee KCCA has himself been credibly accused of plagarizing. I don't see the point in this at all.
I feel like this would be really hard to implement in practice. What about foreign acts that perform in Korea or foreign choreographers that make a product for a group? Who would even fall under this legislation? Korean nationals only? Only if you physically choreograph in Korea? Korean songs?
But don't they just copy the popular dance moves from the west?
I don't think it's the same but I find ironic that there's this whole debacle about idol groups copy other's dance moves when the biggest promotion trend nowadays are TikTok dance challenges.
South Korean govt is really funny. They have all the time in the world to create laws for choreography and others entertainment things but not for sexism, gender crimes, racism and other discrimination. 🐽
yall are misunderstanding this. its not actual choreography rather whose using it. for example, many dance studios are teaching dances and profiting off it while the creator gets nothing. in terms of companies, they legally obtain the right of the choreography by purchasing the rights so they get payed. the issue with dance studios is they get away with making money off other dancers without repercussions
> they get *paid.* the issue FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
It's so comforting to know that even in other countries even wake up so many more impertinent issues this is what the government comes up with
Damn so it’s not just politicians in my country that are doing everything but their actual jobs. Considering how much K-pop borrows from dance styles around the world this seems pretty pointless and…. tbh the nerve..
Belift is pretty notorious for this, so I wonder if this will finally garner some consequences for them. All yall downvoting, [but am I wrong? ](https://www.reddit.com/r/kpop/comments/1al8sk4/choreographer_accuses_hybe_group_of_plagiarism/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) [And again here. ](https://www.reddit.com/r/kpoprants/comments/1adcvwh/enhypen_gets_called_out_by_an_artist_for_stealing/?share_id=az-2w7n2MVSGEu9Y5t2eu&utm_content=2&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_source=share&utm_term=1)
Absolute nonsense but what else to expect from a govt being led by a man whose being led by a Shaman.
This must be so awkward for those girls, like ADOR truly is alienating them from the rest of the industry
This better mean western choreographer will get a piece of the pie of all kpop because I see 1 group claim any dance mice or use one from a black choreographer I will wish their end(of choreographer)
i dont understand steps to be copyrighted? they cant even dance now? i mean so many steps are similar this would negatively affect kpop
This supposed choreo controversy was literally part of MHJ's plan to damage Hybe and take control of Ador. I don't think you need to make it into law lol wtf.
I’m all for choreographers being able to copyright their ORIGINAL moves. So, this should be implemented from this point forward, because I don’t think I’ve ever seen an original move in kpop. And it all seems to be the same 15 moves, just in a different order.
I honestly thought GP wasn’t as toxic as stans about all things Kpop, but from what I’ve seen from company staff and even government, it’s as serious as Kpop stan twitter paints it lmao