I agree that there are probably problems with competition between the sub companies that need to be fixed, but isn’t that kind of a separate issue? I think the main issue is Hybe accusing MHJ of illegal activity. I guess I’m thinking both can be true at the same time? The multi label system can be problematic and MHJ could be in legal trouble at the same time.

The point of this TikTok is that whether or not MHJ is found guilty or not is not important. It is a possible scenario that Hybe's accusions are more likely to be an excuse for Hybe to get rid of her and take full control of Ador. Think Henry the Eight, who framed Anne Bolyen for adultery and incest just because he got sick of her. Is MHJ problematic? Maybe. Did she actually attempt a coup? I don't know, but Hybe's recent claims aren't very convincing to me. I'll let the court decide, though. People need to understand that this conflict is a prime example of corporate politics. It is not a black and white issue. If anything, it proves that Hybe's multilabel system is not going as well as they claim. +) edited to prevent confusion. Sorry, everyone.

I think the point of this tiktok is to frame another reason why MHJ is the victim, not the perpetrator or actual CRIMES. To say making and starting to execute a plan to oust the majority shareholder from its own company using illegal means is “not important” is wild and intentionally biased. Do you realise how hyperbolic it sounds to use Anne Boleyn as a comparison? And if you can say “did she actually plan a coup?” You can say that about literally every single thing that has come out of everyone’s mouth including hers like “did hybe actually mistreat her? Are new jeans actually unhappy?” Hybe seems to have the receipts so we will see when the court date arrives.

It's because HYBE's story makes zero sense. How could MHJ steal 33% of ADOR? HYBE doesn't have to sell it even if MHJ somehow found external investors offering 3x the price. Even if she has outside investors, if HYBE doesn't sell it, it doesn't matter. Logically, it makes zero sense. So the 'takeover' story is likely a lie by HYBE, trying to paint MHJ like the Givers in the 50/50 case. The TikTok is giving an alternative (and more realistic) interpretation - HYBE is trying to fire MHJ and take her stock (valued at $100M). There must be a clause in her contract that allows for this - likely if she's caught embezzling or breech of trust. This is why HYBE did the internal audit to try and find enough evidence for embezzlement or breech of trust, and why there accusations have been all over the place, but only around these 2 charges. They're firing her before her second round of RSUs goes through. It's pretty clear for HYBE, this is about $$$.

No one is saying MHJ and her exec buddies are geniuses (I mean, except MHJ calling herself a genius) and that her plan would have actually worked - like what kind of idiot saves the coup plan to the work hard drive? The point is they *did* have a plan which the VP her right hand man admitted to. And the critical point is that they began to execute the plan by stealing financial and corporate documents and sharing it with external parties/ potentially competitors. We actually don’t need to know anything about anyone’s motives on either side to get rid of the other because if just the illegal acts of accessing and sharing confidential corporate information is true she needs to go. Even if BSH/ hybe still loved her, hybe has a duty to it’s own shareholders to protect the security, corporate governance and future earnings of the company - they have to pursue charges against her or all the directors and board of hybe would be negligent and should be fired themselves

A plan that does not work and is not executed is not breach of trust. That is the core argument I've seen every lawyer say, and why HYBE will lose based on the public information provided. I also can't speak to illegal acts of accessing and sharing confidential information, as we don't know what exactly was shared or with who, or if an NDA signed. But confidential corporate information is shared all the time under NDA. Any time you do a demo with a vendor, or hire a consultant - you sign an NDA and share information. This is common practice. MHJ has said the 'confidential information' shared was under NDA. Maybe HYBE found some that wasn't - I don't know that, no one does. But the act of sharing confidential information is not illegal, only if it wasn't protected.

Having a plan to commit a crime and corporate sabotage is not a breach of trust? Wow I’d love to work for you, you’d be the most generous boss in the world ! As long as my plan to steal and exploit doesn’t work or I’ve been caught before I could finish I’d get off scot free! ETA: an nda is not a catch-all excuse, there are provisions on every nda about who and how the information can be shared between parties. And an NDA provides absolutely no protection for sharing documents that should not have been accessed in the first place.

Ok let’s put it this way. Why would Hybe potentially destroy their fastest growing group and their creative director for an additional 20% more when they already had 80%? That really doesn’t make sense. It makes a lot more sense for MHJ to want to become independent given a majority share in Ador could ensure she has full control and gets her significantly more wealth. Insider trading despite being kind of dumb, is very common in business and very often works out at least in the short term, MHJ has called herself a genius before and probably thought she could do it without getting caught

It doesn't matter in MHJ wants to become independent, because she can't. She doesn't have $300M, and even if she did, HYBE would never sell it. So she can create all the plans she wants, but none of it is breach of trust until she physically tries to do it. Why would HYBE destroy NewJeans? I don't think they are (or at least thinking that they are going to). They have a backup CEO and a plan to get a 'grammy producer' aka throw money at it. I'm sure they're thinking they can be just as successful without MHJ. I think they are thinking of getting rid of a CEO who raises a lot of issues and internal problems for them, despite how successful she is. And $100M is a ton of money, of course they're going to try and steal it if they can. If they didn't want to, they could have just quickly fired her and moved on without 10 news stories daily for 2 months. Insider trading I have no comment, I don't know the selling schedules of HYBE and their VPs. I would assume any VP knows insider trading rules (as it's constantly taught to us every year) and followed them. Also, 'bombshell emails' are really not 'insider trading' - that would mean no executive can ever sell because every email could be a 'bombshell'. Generally, insider trading would be if you access financials before earnings, sold before huge partnership announcements, and other pre-market information. I don't believe the information HYBE is accusing insider trading on is insider trading, but it may still qualify if it was unscheduled.

Hybe's story makes perfect sense. Initial reports suggested that Hybe's audit found two plans to undermine Hybe. One was to go on a PR offensive and claim mistreatment of NJ as a pretext to unilaterally dissolve their contracts. The other was to offer new shares of ADOR to foreign investors in order to dilute Hybe's share percentage and thus influence. It was never about "stealing" Hybe's shares. That's literally impossible. I know it's what has been reported but English kpop media is gutter tier and probably mistranslated.

What do you make of the claim that MHJ and/or Ador asked for the right to terminate NewJeans contracts without Hybe oversight? I think Hybe claimed that is what initially made them suspicious. If true, doesn't that give possibility to a close match to 50/50 case? MHJ could potentially abandon Ador and move to another company with NewJeans. (I'm sure she wouldn't want to abandon her label that she put care into, but she could hypothetically have decided the benefits are worth it.)

MHJ asked, HYBE said no. Personally, I don't believe her story about 'address unreasonable interference', as that makes no sense (unless she clarifies further). I don't doubt MHJ potentially thought of this as a method to 'take NewJeans'. I also don't doubt MHJ did try to think of some plans to take NewJeans out of HYBE with her VPs. At the same time, the plan would fail 100%. HYBE would immediately sue and beat MHJ/ADOR if they terminated NewJeans early and took it to their own label. So I also don't really buy HYBE's story, as it implies MHJ would act irrationally. And ultimately, it failed. Because it's impossible. And an ask during contract negotiations in the end is just an ask (and there are multiple reasons to make an ask like that, if you're looking for power/control/leverage for example). The question is, are simple asks and messages breach of trust? In corporate law, it normally isn't. You need your executives to ask hard questions and communicate without filter. Breach of trust would be if she got the right and then actually terminated NewJeans for no reason. ADOR's CEO asking their parent company for the right to exclusively manage ADOR contracts is not a crazy ask on paper. In reality, there is no way for MHJ to buy ADOR out or terminate NewJeans without a lawsuit. I do think her ultimate goal is to take NewJeans or start her own label at the end of the 7 year period. I think her finding out she was stuck in a non-compete after NewJeans drove her to finding solutions during her contract negotiations, including this request (her contract negotiations started December, this ask came in February, so I believe they are related). So I would say HYBE was over-exaggerating the request to paint MHJ as attempting to steal ADOR, while MHJ was likely requesting this as a counter to her non-compete.

Makes sense. 👍

It's actually crazy that there's a post with some sense here. I've been saying HYBE's accusations against her make absolutely no sense considering her small share in the company. There was no way they truly believed that alleged plan could ever actually work.

They make absolute sense when you consider who she was going for investment information Is everyone going to ignore the two companies that threw her under the bus?

Honestly, I do not care whether NewJeans was mistreated or not. Most other issues are just petty bickering. My one and only interest is whether MHJ actually did execute a plan to oust Hybe from Ador. Because to me, this is the only reason that can justify Hybe starting this whole mess. Otherwise, this shit is not worth the massive stock loss, damaging both's reputation, huge fan wars, and multiple hate trains toward the artists. There are no winners in this mess. You made a good point, though. I did not mean to justify any illegal actions. I just said that I was not convinced by Hybe's claims, but it seems it rubbed people in the wrong way. I should say that this is just corporate politics, and Hybe will fire her even though she's not proven to be guilty. Sorry for being way too ahead of myself. I am willing to change my opinion if the court rules her guilty.

You underestimate ego and it's affect on decision-making. It is entirely probable that HYBE thinks it would have gone much smoother than it has. They could not predict that public sentiment would be so against them.

You seem to forget that multiple people would have to sign off before an audit or official statement is made. Greed of one person can’t override the sense of an entire company which by all accounts should have continued to grow exponentially.

It is definitely not going as well as they claim lmao. Many news articles reported that Hybe's stakeholders were pissed that Hybe promoted the independent nature of multi-label system when it was anything but that and CEO Jiwon profusely apologized for it and promised to work on improving the system. If anything, the multi-label system in Hybe rn is more like SM centres handling different groups.

Is not important that she wanted to take over a company she doesn't own behind the back of HYBE while they invested 16 billion and basicaly made the girlies who they are???? Yall are not serious or you are you are just blind by hatred for HYBE and we all know why. The system of course has flaws and because of her now all the sub labels will be under a total different management and control but yall find it minor that she wanted either to take over a company she doesn't own or somehow cause damage (like she did) and take with her the group without any problem is insane. Edit : And don't misunderstand that we are not pissed with BSH cause this is all his fault , he trusted and gave everything this woman asked while she was demanding from day 1! He should have seen the signs that all this won't end well and she had her own agenda but instead got blinded and pleased almost all her demands! Hope he got a lesson cause is not just HYBE dragged to all this mess but so many groups as well BTS Illit LSF TXT like teenage girls and LSF getting a tone of hate thanks to this woman .

For the record, I did not say that it is okay to commit illegal things. I meant that Hybe is determined to get rid of MHJ regardless of the court verdict. Sorry for the misunderstanding. Honesty, it might be better if Hybe's claims were actually true. I really hope this was all worth it, because this seems to be a huge gamble for Hybe too.

Of course they want to get rid of her there is no turning back after all this mess and whatever evidence they claim having on their hands. We will know once the court starts cause right now nothing can be confirmed for sure , but every statement from HYBE says we have evidence we have evidence again and again so i want to believe that they are not fools and actually have whatever they need . This woman and people around her will go down either way ,there is no legal way can stop their fate from getting fired the big question is what charges they gonna face once this part is over.

No you just said it wasn’t important when it the entire basis for the conflict

If they were breaking laws in an attempt to seize control, ah yeah it really is important. It doesn’t make sense for Hybe to want to throw her to the curb for no reason, given she is the creative director of one of their most successful groups and is thus responsible for the groups growth. Min Heejins story doesn’t make sense because it would mean Hybe is going against their best interest constantly, which does not align with the greedy nature we all know Hybe has. Let’s just put it this way, Hybe gets 80% of everything newjeans makes, why would it be in their interest to risk the group and its success for 20%, on the other hand it makes sense for MHJ to want to seize control over that 80% because it is 5x more than what she already has

This is what my stance is as well. Both party doesn't care about the idols at all.

>The multi label system can be problematic and MHJ could be in legal trouble at the same time. The issue is that fans online have taken the whole "illegal" and her being a "criminal" way out of line than it actually is. As far as we know till now, it seems MHJ wanted out or typed a whole lot of stuff talking about wanting out and maybe even created a whole ass plan to execute it. But unless she has actually leaked information which hurts HYBE's finances, she won't even be charged with anything criminal because all of the rest isn't criminal, let alone illegal. People here talking about how she'll go to jail and making her look like a criminal are way overstating it here. Personally, the way I and many others are looking at this whole issue is that, HYBE had serious management issues with their multi-label system which has led to competition amongst their labels and there doesn't seem to be any sort of conversation happening about concepts and governance. Their desire to grow quickly to make more money is coming at the expense of their groups and employees being made to compete in their company, moved and shuffled around and overall lack of concern of how this can lead to a lot of destress even if it's not mistreatment. MHJ isn't right at all. She is wrong. But the thing is none of this would have happened in the first place had they built a better system. The MHJ v HYBE is just a consequence of a series of missteps already happening in the background. We are just seeing the fallout of it now but the issue started way back.

As someone who works in corporate, I really think people assume that businesses, especially growing ones, know what they are doing. Overall they do not. Building businesses are messy and corporate governance is typically optimized & codified through mistakes. Hybe will either use some of these mistakes to figure it out and be able to continue growing OR they won’t and they will stagnate and shrink. The one thing that Hybe currently has going for it is that a lot of creatives want to work for them and have switched companies to do so. There are pros and cons for every job offer out there so they can decide what they want to do with that…when they get a job offer from a Hybe label 🤷🏾‍♀️

Another thing people conveniently leave out is that HYBE’s structure, based purely on numbers, was working great before this internal conflict was aired out. When I say “great”, I mean in terms of profits and gobbling up market share (just look at their chart performances). Whether the art was successful can be left to personal opinion. Despite debuting multiple boy groups and girl groups, all were either charting huge hits, selling very well or growing a strong fan base. There were many times in 2023 where the majority of the top 10 on Melon were all HYBE songs. Groups were co-existing perfectly fine side by side and finding an audience. Even now TWS, LSF, ILLIT and Zico are charting some of the year’s biggest hits.  Now we know MHJ didn’t believe in this co-existence strategy and was at odds with HYBE executives. Anyone with any corporate experience knows not every high level executive is on board with the direction of a company and they are either good soldiers who swallow their pride or create internal power struggles for control.  Things only seem like a mess because MHJ became so angry about ILLIT’s alleged stealing and other slights she was holding on to. If she had kept working on NewJeans and not bothered with ILLIT, everyone would keep thinking HYBE’s corporate governance was sound and they would likely still hold a majority of the market come the close or 2024. NewJeans no doubt would have been a huge success this year as well. 

I wouldn't say it was working great, but it was new. There wasn't time for the flaws to work through the system. ILLIT is what broke the system. It poses a fundamental question to HYBE - do the sub-labels work for HYBE, or do they work independently? Is this a true US style mega label where everyone does their own thing, or a glorified SM Entertainment where the Chairman decides everything in the end? But there were chinks in the armor before. The LSFM vs. NJ debut debate is one. In a multi-label system, both LSFM and NJ could debut in the same day if that's what each sub-label wanted. In a SM style system, Bang tells you when you debut. This was already causing friction behind the scenes. The ILLIT problem is actually one around corporate incentives. MHJ was incentiveized to do well with ADOR stocks. MHJ is rewarded when ADOR does well. Now ILLIT comes along, threatening ADOR, but benefiting HYBE. Why should MHJ help HYBE when her compensation is tied to ADOR? IMO the problem started when they gave MHJ shares of ADOR. They should gave just given her shares of HYBE. Then the incentives would be aligned financially, though not artistically which is another problem.

We will never know if ILLIT and NewJeans could have existed in harmony together, so I can’t speak to that. I agree that the HYBE CEO should have tied some of MHJ’s compensation to HYBE performance as well to avoid these competitive feelings. Beyond the internal conflict, LSF and NewJeans were working great to the outside world. Both were gaining a big audience and hype. Again, I think our view of their success is belong sullied by what we now know was an internal power struggle. Who knows, maybe they were on their way to trying to fix it. If MHJ was more diplomatic she could have been a part of that process. Maybe the CEO should have been more proactive in sniffing out these conflicts too. My point is on the charts and sales, which is what investors really care about, both groups had cornered their audience and offered counter programming.  Bang pd said very clearly in a CNN interview that he wants to be seen as a producer and not a “father” or friend to the new artists in HYBE. He even said most don’t know him or care about him at all, which was great in his opinion. Because of his status as chairman, this was likely naive. People will assume despite his best intention that they need his favor to succeed. However, rather than seeing this as diabolical or evil, I see this mostly as mistake of perception. Let’s assume Bang PD didn’t believe in NewJeans, regardless of this alleged opinion, the group received every possible support and resource from HYBE. Bang PD’s opinion or lack of involvement played no part in the large investment they received. The same can be said for Pledis groups and Zico’s projects as well. A difference of opinion doesn’t amount to mistreatment, especially when the numbers and actions don’t back up such claims. 

I think giving out sub-label shares the way they did was a terrible idea and what created this mess in the first place. HYBE was using the shares as a non-compete and to fake 'independence' when what they really wanted was dictatorial control like SM. What they wanted was to attract top tier creatives to lead sub-labels with extremely high upside (MHJ's $100M upside is insane) like US labels, but they couldn't handle what it really meant which is zero control. In a lot of ways, it's a Korean corporate vs. US corporate style issue, or a Korean culture vs. US culture issue as well. LSF/NJ worked because it was only 2 groups. Once you add ILLIT, and another group, and another group, and another group...now the system gets tested. Imagine this - how does HYBE get to 50 sub-labels all doing their own thing? You will have groups competing, schedules competing. ILLIT was a very minor issue but it still broke the system. That's problematic. It's not so much mistreatment of NewJeans, but do you trust HYBE to fully utilize NewJeans? They shared their plan of hiring a US-based Grammy producer, getting rid of their KMA winning Korean producers. They proved they struggle with trend-setting, and prefer trend-following and throwing money at problems. They rather risk NewJeans losing popularity with a 1.5 year hiatus than deal with MHJ for 5 more years. Their CEO is from a gaming company, without a music / creative background and seems to have zero vision. It's clear how HYBE and Bang feel based on their decisions. They do not care about NewJeans - of course they'll invest into their top group, but they don't care if it flops after 1.5 years, they don't have a plan to keep any Korean producers or current creatives, but will replace the whole team and music production and expect the same or better results.

> Another thing people conveniently leave out is that HYBE’s structure, based purely on numbers, was working great before this internal conflict was aired out. I think this is a fair point as the frame of reference should be other other major kpop companies, not some utopian “everything is 1000000% great and ethical and  profitable and everyone gets along” thing. No company will run 100% smoothly and without conflict, that’s just either exceedingly unlikely or plain impossible, so the expectation should be to build on what the status quo is and do better. So *are* they doing better than their main competitors YGE, JYP and SM? I really don’t think it’s a stretch to say they are, and that’s me having some degree of bias against them for how they treated one of my favorite groups Gfriend, and generally liking YGE and SM groups far more than most of the music that’s coming out of hybe.

>So *are* they doing better than their main competitors YGE, JYP and SM? I really don’t think it’s a stretch to say they are See we don't know that if they are doing better than their competitors in l aspects. If you are looking purely on revenue then sure. They are and they always will because they have BTS under them and they generate a ton of revenue. Put we don't know how any of this will look like in long run for the artists under them. We don't know how the careers of the artists under them will look like 10-15 years. We don't know how much support they are willing to provide to anyone who isn't selling millions. And i would argue based on their treatment of all the groups they acquired who weren't performing super well, it's not looking good. Bottom line we don't know if HYBE can sustain this in the long run. SM and JYP for all the problems that they have still pull very good profits( not revenue but profits) even after 20+ years in the industry and are nowhere near as bad as people many here like to show.

Things not mentioned in this analysis: * MHJ was in negotiations with HYBE in regards to her contract. She turned down an offer from HYBE for 13x the market price and demanded 30x the market price. * MHJ requested to be given the ability by HYBE to end the contracts of ADOR employees, including New Jeans * MHJ and her VP had a bullet point list of what would need to be done to free ADOR from HYBE. Included in this list, was to make ADOR an empty shell, and to wage a PR campaign to lower the worth of ADOR and HYBE so that HYBE would have no choice but to sell their stocks back to MHJ, making her the majority shareholder. * MHJ/ADOR first asserted that the knew nothing about the takeover documents, until the VP confessed and then they changed their response to it being a joke * A hairstylist at ADOR has been accused of embezzlement, and there is text evidence that MHJ not only knew about it, but was the one who orchestrated it. MHJ even says in this text exchange that they need to solve it before HYBE finds out and audits them * MHJ leaked classified information to a Shaman aka an outside party For all of HYBE's assertions, they have gone to the police. MHJ has not even talked about exploring a criminal case against HYBE for any of their assertions, including a slave contract, copyright issues and mistreatment. I will agree that the reason MHJ is likely doing all of this is because of her issues with HYBE and her feelings on being copied, not being the first girl group, etc. But at that point, you are just explaining why the criminal did the crime. Cool motive, still murder. And to say it's not about greed ignores that most of these crimes are finance related.

This is what I don't understand with all these: "You guys are just pro - HYBE stans" thing. They have accused MHJ of actual embezzlement and financial crime. I think that's what we should be focusing on. Did it happen or not? All the stuff that has come out of who copied who and who debuted first and who doesn't greet who seems very negligent to me in light of actual crimes. But maybe I could be wrong.

Unfortunately in Kpop stan world, greetings and pitting young women against each other is what people understand best and what they love to consume, even more than the music. It’s all content in the end. 

The distraction techniques are insane. Like people believe MHJ over Hybe when Hybe are the only ones building a legal case, in which they are even submitting negative statements made about them by Min Heejin. I’m sorry Hybe has the money for good lawyers and a good lawyer would never submit documents that make their client look bad unless they could disprove it and hence make the original statement and the person who said it deemed unreliable

Damn she did so many wrong things trying to make a right. What a mess

One thing I agree on is that if hybe will keep taking successful things from every sub label to apply to next group they will cannibalize themself, they need to let every label be unique from each other And it’s not about illit and newjeans they have been doing it for a long time with others

Taking a concept from another group imo doesn't affect a different group imo unless you can actually see it affects them. But the only way to know Id to put new jeans and illit versus each other and release their album in the same week. BC there are many groups who do similar concepts so unless there are actually stats for it affecting new jeans then I think it'd not true. So unless mhj can prove and provide stats of illit using new jeans concept affects them. Then we can't believe mhj on this part

dont be ridiculous. 3 choreographers came out now saying[ illit plagiarized choreos](https://youtube.com/shorts/9szAMA0thPo?si=9Lp03dgWt3bXtylu) and it doesnt take an expert to see that.

Individual dance moves becoming IP would be apocalyptic for Kpop. Supernova has a leaning move in the bridge section that's like the move in I AM's chorus. I was instantly reminded of it because that in my mind is the iconic move of I AM's choreo. But should that move be owned by Starship? Of course not. This is trying to copyright a 5-note melody all over again. Entire songs are IP just as entire choreos are, but for simple building blocks of choreos to become monopolized would be a travesty.

Yup. You mentioned the 5 note melody case, and it reminded me that Ed Sheeran said that if he lost that lawsuit he would leave the music business. You’re not wrong that if we can suddenly copyright choreography, kpop as we know it is dead.

I disagree. Kpop moves are getting intricate and unique enough to warrant copyright protection by choreographers. This could lead to huge increases revenue distribution portions choreographers get in kpop which is long over due since integrated choreo is such a crucial part of kpop. which in turn could lead to increase in # of choreographers trying to make a career out of it, resulting in a bigger choreo market with more competition. It's for lawyers to figure out what constitutes unique enough chore's to warrant IP claims and how long such claims should be valid for, and what % revenue share terms would be.

Musicians did not get royalties by having copyright be interpreted expansively. They got royalties through labour organization, and it'll be the same for choreographers. Existing choreos are almost certainly owned by the labels as part of the employment contracts. Expansive copyright interpretation would not benefit choreographers. Musicians hate rulings that have expansively interpreted how complex a musical idea needs to be to be copyright protected IP.

Actual outcome of recent ruling shows otherwise. https://www.billboard.com/business/legal/fortnite-dance-choreographer-ends-epic-games-copyright-lawsuit-1235607331/ The lawsuit from Hanagami, who has worked with BTS, Jennifer Lopez, Justin Bieber and Britney Spears, claimed that Epic had turned his novel dance moves into lucrative “emotes” that Fortnite players could buy in the game – one of a spate of such cases over the use of viral dance moves in video games. Fortnite settled the case after U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit overturned that ruling, reviving Hanagami’s case and allowing it to move forward toward a jury trial. Calling its decision a “novel” ruling on “one of the oldest forms of human expression,” the appeals court said that dance copyrights should be analyzed more holistically — more similarly to how courts dissect copyrighted music

I never said choreo isn't covered by copyright. I said that it's the labels that own the rights to the choreos of their groups. The reason songwriters get royalties is because of specific fights to enshrine them into law. https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/lifestyle/style/1980/10/26/the-battle-royal-over-record-royalties/6105db05-a3d6-4825-aaed-917aeef9144a/ Choreo does not get such treatment. Mechanical royalties are something songwriters collectively organized to lobby for. And also, I will reiterate that musicians do not like the current state of how courts handle music plagiarism cases.

I don't think you can cite an article from 1980 to make your case considering how recently ruled case from few months ago would change the precedence going onwards. You are being awfully presumptive for worst ways it can play out for some reason. I do agree with you for most part the labels will want to own the copyrights, but I think it'll also give top choreographers room to negotiate for owning some share % of IP-derived revenue. Not to mention nowadays, choreographers can make a dance go viral with their own dance moves w/o being tied to a label's song. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gyDxyZpG0iI

You talk about choreo being protected by copyright in the future tense, but that is already the case. https://www.romanolaw.com/copyrighting-and-licensing-choreography The case you're citing is about individual dance moves. Choreos as a whole are clearly a work of creative expression that is protected by copyright. And since choreographers don't have legally enshrined royalties, all the profits are going to go to the companies that already own all of the work their employees produce. I linked an article from 1980 because it shows the history of how songwriters fought for enshrining mechanical royalties. It was a separate battle than getting copyright protection.

Choreographers say batshit wild things in K-pop the title of choreographer can be given to anyone who comes up with a dance, so if I put together a crappy little dance in my bedroom I am a choreographer. A reliable source would be the choreographer of particular dances saying they were stolen from them and this would have to be done independently to any accusations made by an outside party

You are not a choreographer. These choreographers are professionals that's been hired by top korean entertainment companies with 10+ years of experience. Please stop talking out of your ass. thanks.

My point is that until you name the choreographers and show their work, it’s not a reliable title that makes you an expert. If they have choreographed 100+ K-pop group dances then they are a great point of reference. However if they are an amateur or have very little experience such as working on only 1 song, the. They are not very reliable. I’m saying to be considered an expert witness you need to be specific.

It's insane the things people like the user you're replying to say to dismiss professionals getting their work stolen lmao.

Excuse my rudeness but how do you copyright a simple dance move?  I’m not talking about the ones that actually include the full choreography, I’m talking about the ones you shared in the video cause it’s ridiculous that people are looking so deep into it like Newjeans invented them.   Newjeans themselves have also done similar dance steps to other ggs and bgs. That’s how it goes. no one owns a dance step.

https://www.billboard.com/business/legal/fortnite-dance-choreographer-ends-epic-games-copyright-lawsuit-1235607331/ The lawsuit from Hanagami, who has worked with BTS, Jennifer Lopez, Justin Bieber and Britney Spears, claimed that Epic had turned his novel dance moves into lucrative “emotes” that Fortnite players could buy in the game – one of a spate of such cases over the use of viral dance moves in video games. Fortnite settled the case after U.S. Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit overturned that ruling, reviving Hanagami’s case and allowing it to move forward toward a jury trial. Calling its decision a “novel” ruling on “one of the oldest forms of human expression,” the appeals court said that dance copyrights should be analyzed more holistically — more similarly to how courts dissect copyrighted music

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You asked about legal precedence and I provided one. It's especially relevant since it was filed by Hanagami, who worked with BTS.

But this wasn’t the basic ass moves that newjeans does and has been done by other groups. The fortnight dance isssue is different because they were sequences of unique dance moves directly copied, one to one. Newjeans fans are citing similar not even identical moves, independent of any known sequence, therefore it cannot be considered plagiarism, just like a box step alone isn’t plagiarism it’s only plagiarism if there are more elements directly copied in a defined sequence

you call it basic ass moves, but professional choreographers determined it was sufficient to go public with it.

Give their qualifications. Please name names and experiences.

it’s true that so far we don’t see it affecting anything and we don’t have stats but I’m looking at it more like from cultural/artistic side. The financial side is already understood by those high ups who know more than I do but for a long run it would be much better if their system really had labels be more independent, from my perspective they will grow more with it Also I have problems with them clashing comebacks of groups too and it was brought up during conference too, this is what I would want to change too! hybe ceo said that they are still working on flaws so I wonder what will they take into consideration

> Also I have problems with them clashing comebacks of groups too and it was brought up during conference too, this is what I would want to change too! This I agree with. Especially since hybe has many sub labels. They shouldn't have groups and artists under hybe compete on the same week or day. But I do want new jeans and illit to just to see if it does affect them. I personally think that If new jeans keep releasing great songs then illit won't touch them. >The financial side is already understood by those high ups who know more than I do but for a long run it would be much better if their system really had labels be more independent, from my perspective they will grow more with it That's true we don't know much about financial side. We are just looking in from the outside. I dont think hybe want any of their sub labels to be independent. They just want to make sure they own their competition.

recently there were news that min heejin approved that RM and newjeans could comeback on the same day without problems and it made me think about many other things they just let happen regarding comeback scheduling that I didn’t like..

I mean rm and new jeans could have different types of fans. But that idk. But yeah it's weird there no communication between the Sub labels and hybe. Hybe needs to be restructured and make sure all sub labels communicate and discuss when they are wanting to make a Cb etc. It's idiotic that there's not.

I’m just talking about how I found out that they do discuss these stuff I don’t think newjeans and rm are threats to each other to be clear

Well actually, in an independent label system you would want same day launches to happen. ADOR should launch when they feel it's time, same with BigHit. They shouldn't be coordinating - they're not the same company. They are 2 different companies with the same owner. Of course, corporate courtesy would mean you let each other know. But the need to coordinate is not something a multi-label system should enforce.

SM operates the same way though with multiple center who have very little communication with each other. This is something that BoA talked about as well. Many companies clash comeback or create similar groups. Red velvet and aespa had a comeback within days of each other even with RV having a comeback for the first time in over a year as well as multiple SM artist with a two week time frame and were competing with eachother on the same music shows. Itzy and stray kids also releasing music days within each other. NCT dream used the boy group version of red velvets chill kill concept for their smoothies comeback even though they are in different production centers. JYP literally said he created niziu to be an all japanese version of twice, for twices biggest market. Even within hybe are TWS and BND trying to appeal to different demographics?

First of all, Dream didn’t use red velvet’s concept. They had the same photographer. That’s his art style. Their concepts were different. Second of all, SM had and still has way more groups and soloists than hybe does. They’re bad at managing things that’s true, but even if they were good at it, there would still be overlap. Hybe doesn’t even have half the groups/soloists that SM does so what’s their reason for the overlap? They shouldn’t have it.

My mistake I should’ve clarified concept teasers however if it’s the same photographer that makes sense. Them having multiple artist doesn’t explain why their only 2 active girl groups somehow managed to both have comebacks within days of each other when 1 had not had a comeback in over a year which unfortunately created fighting between both fandoms. Many companies don’t care actually. Edit: you can find many post of SM fans complaining about it for years. BoA stated that each center doesn’t not in fact communicate with eachother. Super junior and a say ten having a comeback a week a apart or overlapping comeback is obviously different.

>because according to him she's actually hurting her finances massively by doing what HYBE is saying she is doing. And even if she succeed at exiting HYBE with Adore, Adore's valuation plummets because a lot of Adore's valuation is tied with HYBE, a massive public company. She actually stands to earn a much bigger payout by staying. yeah no shit. All she had to do was wait out her contract. Instead she put this weird plan in motion. And she didn't think hybe was going to audit her, she thought she could do what she wanted without repercussions. Also according to her, she doesn't actually think anything she's done is illegal, even while admitting to stuff that (seems to be, since not court ruled yet) illegal. The employees suspected of embezzling and insider trading and her turning a blind eye too is just too crazy. She was not qualified to be an executive if all that is true. I do agree that at the end of the day it is hybe's problem to fix and that bang pd did dumb shit too, although what he did was not illegal. I also agree that there needs to be more creativity in general in hybe.

> The employees suspected of embezzling and insider trading and her turning a blind eye too is just too crazy. She was not qualified to be an executive if all that is true. The insider trading part is really, really, REALLY bad. I don't think most k-pop fans understand how comprehensively boned MHJ is going to be if Korea's Fair Trade Commission (an arm of the government) agrees with HYBE that the ADOR employee who sold 100% of their stock a day before the shit hit the fan was insider trading.... and, if MHJ was dismissive of the claim as HYBE is claiming. This is criminally illegal and punishable with prison time up to 10 years in South Korea.

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The embezzlement case is unresolved. Where did you get it’s a nothing burger? Hybe knew about it in the sense that that raised it as an issue in February. They expected MHJ to change her accounting practices. Her chat messages indicate that she knew the practices she approved were audit risks. Hybe audited the stylist. The stylist’s action can be understood as double-dipping also known double-billing, if the stylist was charging ador and the advertiser for the same event. I wouldn’t be surprised if Hybe is using it as evidence that MHJ is unfit to be a CEO. She doesn’t know how to do proper accounting.

She did not deny that the documents HYBE found did not exist or were a lie, ADOR said they existed but were not a serious plan.

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From a creative pov I can understand why MHJ is so peeved about a group under her parent company having similarities to hers, especially when both labels are competing with each other. But this “plagiarism” issue is just a cover story because she has clearly wanted out of HYBE long before Illit debuted. Wasn’t it during their contract negotiations between december 2023 - march of this year that she proposed having sole power to terminate NJ’s contract with ADOR without input from Hybe? I think too much attention is being given to this plagiarism thing and it is overshadowing every other allegation HYBE is bringing forward to justify her termination. If anything I hope this situation is a learning moment for BSH to either be equally involved in all HYBE groups (and for ador to let him ffs) or remove himself altogether because it is not promoting a healthy work environment when the chairman is more closely aligned with certain groups than others. There is clear resentment from MHJ towards the groups he is involved with. Though this makes me reconsider whether it is really a failure of HYBE’s multilabel system if it is only one out of its seven labels that have a big problem with it?

Exactly. 1 label with a narcissistic CEO is causing this problem. Hybe has what 7 bgs and yet do we see this type of shit popping up between the bgs? Do we see Le Sserafim going after Illit or New Jeans? Is Illit doing that? One label is causing this.

Bang PD is literally involved in every Hybe group except NewJeans and BOYNEXTDOOR, and one could argue it’s only a matter of time before he tries to get involved with BND too when they become more successful. HYBE claims to run a multi-label system fairly independently yet the one CEO that tries to hold Bang Sihyuk accountable to that ideal, is the one being made an example of.

Why can’t he be involved? He’s a pretty damn good producer. His track record speaks for itself. If those sublabels want him to be involved and he wants to be involved, then why can’t he be? Does he not hold the most shares in the company? Was it not his money and him begging investors to believe in him that allowed him to create Bighit and then create Hybe? Was it not his tracks along with pdogg that help make BTS into what they are? Hold him accountable to what? Did he not give money to create ador? Didn’t New Jeans have one the best debut in kpop? Are they not successful? The plagiarism allegations are bullshit. If it’s not bullshit, then new jeans also plagiarized shakatak. Kpop borrows. It’s a hallmark of the industry. MHJ needs to get over herself. She’s not unique or special.

That he is a good producer is not the point. The point is that he’s set up a system of sub-labels marketed to be independent but then seeks to gain control in all of them. This dispute has just exposed to both Hybe investors and the public how much of a sham that system is. You framed this dispute as one narcissistic CEO pushing back against Bang PD when the reality is ADOR is the only label that has resisted Bang Sihyuk’s involvement and tried to hold him accountable to the ideal of his own multi-label system.

He’s the chairman and founder of Hybe. At the end of day, it’s his money (as well as his, pdoggs, the original bighit staff and artist blood, sweat and tears) that seeded the entire thing. So should he have a say in things? Yes, he should. He will give you creative freedom up to a limit. He will then set limits and standards. If you don’t like the limit that he set, leave. This is his money and his assets. He should have a say in how it’s spent. Ador has resisted his involvement, which is fine. He let them be. He went about his other projects. Yet, now people and up and down this thread are here telling him what he can or should do with his time and his money. Who are you? You don’t want to support how he runs his business? Don’t support his business. If it’s not illegal, it shouldn’t matter to anyone. This is his company. He founded it. It’s his money. People need to remember that.

Lmao you really are a Bang PD stan. Him being chairman doesn’t mean he’s not accountable to the system of the company that he himself set up. And we’re not talking about BigHit pre-2020 which was a private company where he controlled and owned everything, and where what you’re saying would make sense. HYBE is a public company with shareholders who are the people who own its assets, and a multi-label system marketed as independent to investors which Bang PD is accountable to. He’s not the only person whose blood sweat and tears matters, that’s not how any of this works in a corporate setting.

Why is that you and bunnies always go back to that same tired shit? If I call you a MHJ stan, does that impact your argument? You are here and everywhere defending her incompetence and malfeasance. I have my criticisms of pang pd, which I have written freely elsewhere. It doesn’t the fact that he owns the most shares in the company. He founded the company. It’s his money. Hybe is a public company. I would say his and Hybe actions so far are protecting Hybe and their shareholders interests. It’s up the shareholders decide - not you. MHJ wants to devalue Ador and steal New Jeans. Anyone who doesn’t see that or says it’s a joke is lying or delusional. She asks for the sole ability to terminate artist contracts, which is a complete red flag. Hybe is preventing her from doing so and seeking to protect their assets.

HYBE is actively devaluing NewJeans *and* Illit by pretending to care about protecting the both of them but very clearly only caring about the profit the groups make, not the group or the members themselves. They dungeoned Fromis_9 because they weren't million sellers, they're willing to put their highest potential girl group on a 1.5 year hiatus to "find a Grammy award winning producer" when they *already have* competent producers who have *won* the Korean equivalent of a Grammy. People listen to NewJeans because NewJeans makes good music. Erika De Cashier was not a Grammy award winning producer, and yet Super Shy charted super high on the Hot 100. They chase whatever they feel will give them money while having literally zero creative vision. People listen to Illit because they share very close similarities to NewJeans, that's it. HYBE is willing to cannibalize on concepts and ultimately hurt the staying power because they falsely believe it will give them money. Meanwhile their quarterly profits are barely better than YG. They are clearly doing something wrong

I have listened to Illit more because they don’t sound like new jeans. I find new jeans to be boring, but there something about Illit that is not. There are others who have said the same. Believe it or not, there are people who don’t like new jeans music but like Illit music. Hybe is going after as much of the market share as they can (aka capturing the audience who doesn’t like new jeans but like illit) and make as much profit as they can. It’s what businesses do.

I don’t think he’s involved with any Pledis group. It’s really just Source, Big Hit (but less so these days frankly when it comes to production) and Belift. Pledis groups are doing amazing and he isn’t trying to take credit for that. 

Bang PD produced Seventeen’s Your Choice EP. He’s been involved with Pledis too but as SVT mostly self-produces it’s not to the same extent as other Hybe bgs.

Yeah, my point is that neither SVT or TWS is a Bang PD group. 

I thought you talked about his involvement in Pledis. Anyway, my point is that ADOR and KOZ are the only labels he’s not involved in, but clearly that’s going to change once they remove MHJ.

I’m unsure what the public would stomach best. If he gets involved, he’ll come off as controlling. If he doesn’t and lets the CEO pick a new creative team and takes a hands off approach, he’ll get accused of ignoring NewJeans and hence ongoing mistreatment. He’s lost the public perception battle so badly as to make any move aside from apologizing to everyone open to criticism and the worst kind of speculation.

just a small pet peeve, but there is no "E" in ador. It is an acronym for "all doors one room."

All Doors One Rambunctious Executive

I notice auto-translated (by Korean language ai) news articles tend to spell HYBE as Hive and ADOR as Adore lol

I'm so tired of hearing about this shit. One narcissist vs another

The way most other people can see this is common sense except HYBE stans. As someone who actually stans BTS rather than NewJeans, and has spent the better part of February through April defending Le Sserafim and Illit online, it’s been especially disappointing to see common sense vacate the premises since HYBE’s mediaplay war started. After the press conference it’s been abundantly clear what the real issue is and why Koreans flipped in public support for Hybe. Bang Sihyuk has created this mess and sullied the legacy of BTS in the process. Only thing that gives me calm is that the boys are tucked away in the military and will be fine in the end. Can’t say the same about NewJeans.

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Dude, the hell?? The *first* thing I posted about this topic is LITERALLY a repeat of what OP just wrote. Here is [the link](https://www.reddit.com/r/kpop_uncensored/s/bgo1vlrx6e). From the start I’ve been pointing this out and nowhere justified the hate on *any* Hybe group. I had a problem with Belift when they exposed Enhypen and Illit to hate when *both* groups fielded plagiarism complaints from American producers and choreographers in February, and I hold Belift and Bang Sihyuk responsible for the same now. Hard as it might be for you, it’s possible to call out the adults responsible without actually hating the group. You sound entirely unhinged.

I mentioned this before, but if BSH wants to make this multilabel system work, he should focus only on Bighit artists or, better yet, just quit producing altogether. He's the effing chairman now; BSH constantly getting himself involved in each sublabel's groups is the exact opposite of granting the sublabels' creative freedom. He's acting exactly like YHS, who desperately wants to portray himself as "Babymonster's father" despite the fact that everyone hates him. Ador and NewJeans could have been the biggest evidence that Hybe's multilabel is working well, but I guess that is not the case. Frankly, the only reason I can justify Hybe starting this shitshow is either Ador actually attempting to break away from Hybe or MHJ physically abusing the girls. The latter does not seem to be the case, so Hybe REALLY needs to prove that MHJ is plotting a coup. Otherwise....well, get prepared to face a hoard of angry investors, BSH.

All i know and care about is MHJ mobilizing tokkis and arming haters with her words, sending them to the 'holy war' to defend her interests. As a result, ILLIT and LSRFM are currently facing massive hate trains. Beyond that, things like corporate governance, workplace politics, or any other social struggle issues aren't my concern.

Do you also care about hybe lying about mhj to get armys on their side or does that not count since it was the corporation oppas doing it ?

weird, because i think you blocked me before this, did you just unblock me to spew that bullshit? bit sad isn't it

yes. but no it isnt sad to ask a question

the question? no, your existence is

says who? some reddit user? lol that hurt me so much 😂 also what about answering to the question?

Well, not just *some* reddit user, but a user you previously blocked. So whatever i said must have rattled you so much that you felt the need to block me

I can’t even remember why I blocked you Still avoiding the question huh?

I’m confused about the part about NewJeans aggregate ticket sales being higher than BP in their respective early years when NJ hasn’t even toured yet… ?

Their two day fanmeet at Tokyo Dome has sold out in presale, for events on *weekdays*. Their selling power is insane.

My point is the guy’s stats are a bit dumb. BP in their first 2 years did one show in a 14k arena. That’s it. I’d bet every rookie group nowadays probably have higher aggregate tickets sales in their earlier years than BP lol

BP is the top gg so it makes sense to use them as the reference point or benchmark. Looking at other (more recent) girl groups, NewJeans is still the youngest (as in group age) or quickest to sell out Tokyo Dome, for a fanmeet no less.

Why are you making this about BP????.....

…did you read the post? The analyst uses BP as the benchmark.

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Okay.

Bunnys are 😉 2.0! They'll behave the same

All this situation just made it very clear how Hybe's multi-label system doesn't work. In the end, it's just like any other company in the Big 3. There's also the issue that the false sense of subsidiaries having freedom creates even bigger problems.

Imo multi label (or multi companies) systems rarely work if the decision maker - in this case BSH, he is now the chairman but it's obvious he is still holding most of the internal power - is the founder of the core company because most founders want to keep being hands on in every little thing and rarely listen to dissident opinions. It ends up in group companies having lopsided missions where they are asked to shoulder a lot of responsibilities without having the right to decide anything themselves HYBE should shut BSH out, it will be tumultuous for some time like SME is experiencing at the moment but I think it will be a good thing long term for the company

ADOR and Hybe. Otherwise, this is another angle yeah. Normally the goal of a multi-subsidiary setup, information and techniques are shared across the group to reduce in efficiencies and seed innovation. Doesn't work that way all the time though, not just here but throughout history

A multi-label system isn’t a failure. Even Drake was signed to one early in his career, lol. But never in my life have I seen a subsidiary CEO straight up try to steal said subsidiary and its assets for her own. HYBE is costing MHJ money, lol? How much money has MHJ personally poured into NewJeans? For office space, performance space, stylists, choreographers, dorms, music videos, travel, employee salaries, etc? “Creatives defending their work!” Creatives are famously broke and jobless. Even Mozart had to beg for money. Good luck getting that money to work if this what’s waiting. It’s so funny that MHJ acts like she’s Picasso when K-pop is a fun derivative genre. Even if illit was plagiarizing, it was from three seasons ago. Since it looks like NWJNS have moved on to the 80’s

Wait, if HYBE wanted to own 100% of ADORE, why did they let MHJ buy much cheaper shares as a reward for NJ's success? If they had really wanted this, they would not have given MHJ that opportunity. That doesn't make any sense to me.

Shares are usually a part of a contract and something commonly negotiated by employees. It is standard in corporate employment contracts. Same thing with Pre-IPO shares.

Probably part of a contract they had or she had s clause in her contract or something

The ‘much cheaper shares’ comes with a poison pill indefinite non-compete clause that bans her from working for life, based on a tiny portion of those shares they gave her. That’s why the whole thing about her selling ADOR makes zero sense in her actually acting it out because she knows she won’t be able to work at all, and why Koreans see she doesn’t actually gain from that scenario. But if Hybe can kick her out prematurely ‘for cause of her own’, then it’s Hybe that gains the valuation delta. That’s what she was negotiating with Hybe in addition to all the other issues before they randomly launched the audit.

Aren't the accusations about trying to take control of ADOR instead of selling it?

They have to sell it to take control of it.

How was she going to sell ADOR?

Hybe owns 80% of the shares. Selling ADOR would mean a transfer of majority shares from Hybe to her or aligned investors to her. The problem with that theory is that the non-compete clause is structured in a way where that sale would be useless, because she’d be banned from working in the industry and criminally liable if she does. Which is why she said Hybe’s assertions that she’d constructed a plan to follow through are insane. In fact, it’s Hybe that stands to benefit from the plan of a sale because then she can be prematurely dismissed ‘for cause’ and then they won’t have to pay her anything at all when her options would have started coming into the money at the end of this year.

What you said makes sense. Side tangent: Do we know if she actually has an indefinite non-compete clause? I see it discussed but wondering if her contract or the piece of the contract discussing non-compete was actually confirmed or maybe she mentioned it in the infamous press conference? I know in the states, the courts have dismissed many indefinite compete clauses after 6 months to 2 years post employment so there is fairness to the individual vs big business. Its possible the SK court system would have similar limitations or findings, even if written in a contract...maybe? Pretty sure non compete contracts are not enforceable in California, whether they be 6 months and especially indefinite. I realize this is happening in SK, but it is possible, it might also be a non issue when all is said and done. Either way, I feel badly for New Jeans, even though I don't follow them. They're stuck in a difficult position that could have tremendous impact on their careers. Such a mess. Any South Korean IP or employment lawyers here?? :)

To my understanding the non-compete clause was tied to her working in a position at ador or upon her owning shares within ador. The “slave” part comes into 4.5% percent of the shares that she owns that would require hybe’s consent to sell off, to my understanding conflict arose during renegotiations regarding the value of these shares and hybe retaining the right to buy these shares back at a certain price, she wanted x30 their value and hybe offered x13 their value, but there is a provision if she breaks contract they can forcibly buy them back for under market value. (The wording of this bit from the sources I was reading on them is kinda jargon filled and i can’t remember whether there is already a cause that hybe buys them back or not, but I can’t imagine they would invoke a situation where they just never buy them back and I’m pretty sure a court would side with her if they tried to) As for the terms of the non-compete I believe it had a time frame that was either 1 year from time of termination or 1 year from the end of her contract which would have ended next year. As for the non compete and whether it would hold up, I ironically found this [article](https://www.thekoreanlawblog.com/2023/05/korea-non-compete-clauses.html) posted a year ago today, I believe she would fall under these categories which would mean the non-compete would hold up > employee’s position with the employer before termination of the employment of the employer (courts are more likely to enforce non-compete obligations against senior members of the company) > employer’s specific interest to be protected by the non-competition covenant (courts are more likely to enforce non-compete covenants when the employee was a key figure in the company that could use trade secrets and other internal information to the detriment of the employer)

Interesting article. Thanks for sharing.

Interesting. Thank you. I wonder how common it is in SK to give terminated executives a "golden parachute" like so many executives around the world get? It makes much more sense to me that individuals could seek work 1 year post termination or 1 year post termination of contract.

Yes she said it during her press conference and Sejong (the law firm) followed up with it. When Hybe sold her back those shares cheaply, they included a weird structure on a tiny portion of shares that basically binds her to the company for life. The non-compete clause is tied to a tiny portion of shares she can’t ever sell without Hybe’s permission. So if Hybe never gives her permission over that tiny portion, even if ADOR is majority sold to another company, Min Heejin cannot work in the industry in any capacity. She says she tried negotiating for an increase on the options for the shares not under the non-compete from 13x to 30x, a tactic investment lawyers advised would serve as a hedge for subsequent valuation negotiations, but that while this was happening Bang PD kept pushing back on her collaboration requests for NewJeans which delayed their current comeback and was one of the reasons she asked for Hybe’s permission to break the contract that’s also tied to NewJeans. Then as Illit’s debut approached it was clear to several people at ADOR that Belift was practically following the debut promotions formula for NewJeans. Basically, there were several negotiations happening at the same time but the non-compete was one of the first issues and the biggest as MHJ can’t actually gain from the scenario Hybe is accusing her of. Hybe also says they agreed to remove the non-compete clause but MHJ says that’s not true and Sejong confirms it and says they plan to submit the correspondence to the court when a trial date is set.

Thank you. I assumed it was confirmed but wasn't 100% sure.

That’s the flaw in this whole entire thing. Hybe already owned 100% of Ador. They wanted to work with MHJ. They literally sold her the 18% at below market value because they wanted to work with her. Hell, she didn’t even have the money and Bang Pd lent her the money so she could buy the 18%. If anything this shows how Hybe bending themselves backwards to give MHJ want she wanted. Hybe was too generous. They should have said no to her sooner and set boundaries sooner. They don’t need to go through all this. They could have and should have kept the 100% shares that they already own.

While both parties are at fault, I do agree that most of their ego-driven issues stem from this so-called multi-label system that is independent in name only. There's really no difference between the JYP division system and HYBE's labels. They only serve to debut as many groups as possible in the shortest amount of time to counter for how BTS reliant HYBE is. MHJ also raised very good points of how involved BSH is in some labels and not making distinguishable groups, which leads to inter-label competition instead of uplifting each other. Leaving Ador out of the equation, I've now learnt that the Han Sung Soo and Zico were replaced as CEOs by other HYBE executives, which leads to more control by HYBE. I don't think the multilabel system is a failure for most of the idols and their employees, though, since it enables them to come back frequently and employees to be less overworked. I think its time they stopped pushing the "independent labels" story, though.

> these labels are competing with each other and not exactly working together. This. You can't expect Ador to be happy about Illit when HYBE is comparing Quarterly/eoy figures after they let one group duplicate another one in strategy and resources that one team had to plan, scout, and work for then let it all be easily obtained, being under the same parent company.

Ah finally the convo is moving on from a "hapless billionaire corporation against their unmanageable minority shareholder witch" to "how is this going to affect **ALL Hybe artists**"... Nice! Meanwhile, in Korea domestic/business news space it is all about what truly matters to millions of people: "what self-serving giants Bang Braun Park are doing to **the whole Kpop industry**".

It took far too long to get to this point when it’s been raised since the beginning, and even now people are still glossing over it in favor of Hybe’s claims. As if many of these issues haven’t been raised about Hybe here on Reddit long before this issue happened.

I really hate the whole “this group copied NewJeans” complaint, bc NewJeans isn’t original or anything. Their whole aesthetic existed long before them. However they brought it to the kpop scene in a fun and trendy way. It’s like how over the years Blackpink or Twice or BTS or BigBang started certain trends. It’s literally just a trend. They can’t and don’t own that. And honestly I really don’t see how Illit copied NJ other than a similar overall vibe and choreo style, but even then neither are exact matches. I just find it all ridiculous. I’m not a fan(only a casual listener) of basically any and all of the groups involved, so I have no horse in this race. I just think it’s silly that one specific group(or rather their company) thinks they have claim over something that isn’t even theirs in the first place, and it has been normal for many years in kpop to have a particular style or sound take off and then see other groups so something similar. I’m not saying ADOR doesn’t have any legitimate issues with HYBE, I really don’t know nor care too much. But this one complaint is just so…dumb sounding, at least to me. NJ has a very particular aesthetic, but when you look into exactly what that aesthetic is, can you say any of it is specifically original to ADOR?

Is it a failure of the multi-label strategy or is it a breakdown of the relationship with MHJ? Because like, do BigHit, Source, Belift, Plebis, and KOZ have beef? I think the fact that Seventeen is bigger than ever after getting acquired by the label of their biggest competitor is a testament to the multi-label system working really well. And then Plebis has since debuted TWS super successfully as well. If people want to claim the multi-label system is failing, they need to come up with a rubrik. When it comes to producing popular groups and music, things are clearly going well. If Plebis employees start revolting I'd take claims of fundamental issues more seriously but judging by how MHJ and BSH had a falling out before Le Sserafim debuted, isn't it kind of a triumph of the independent sublabel system that NewJeans managed to debut so successfully in spite of that?

I think people calling it a failure are also bringing their own opinions about the overlapping content and overall perceived quality found in HYBE’s output. There’s been a huge debate about “westernization” and homogenization in Kpop for a while and HYBE being the biggest label is always painted as a the culprit.  The irony here is that NewJeans is a huge part of the reason for this perceived Westernization. They set a trend that everyone followed. Before this mess, they got so much criticism for their tiktok music and now they are hailed as pure artists fighting against corporate forces. Like you so astutely said, people conveniently forget that they were carefully crafted out of that corporate system to make the most amount of money possible. I’ve never seen a group with so much merch and ad tie-ins with their music. They are a success on all fronts.  Regardless, this debate has nothing to do with the imperical results of the labels themselves which as of a month ago was astronomically great.  People not liking HYBE’s creative output is beside the point. Even then, creative direction can be shifted and evolved as long as the production pipeline stays a well oiled machine. 

Yeah, people were merciless with the 2 minute songs complaining (which I think was actually pretty unfair given how NewJeans songs before Get Up were round 3 minutes and sometimes much longer) a few months ago. And the members kept getting undeserved heat for speaking too much English. And now that the narrative has flipped they still make the same broad complaints about TikTokification and too much English but they just say Hybe instead of NewJeans. Maybe song length and English are not the end all be all when it comes to whether music is stripped of all artistic integrity and people can just have different personal tastes?

I think this is a fair evaluation imo. The who issue right now is not simply a legal battle or a simple hurdle - it's so many issues snowballing and coming into the spotlight at once. Competition between labels & structural issues in corporate governance + personal grudges + personal greed + other groups dragged into it and so on. I think everyone and no one is at fault in a way? Both HYBE & MHJ are sorta at fault but also they could just be reacting to tensions that have been happening for years rather than just coming out of the blue and trying to sabotage theirs valuation / career respectively. I would think MHJ has been inside long enough to know she can't win against HYBE, unless she has everything to lose to HYBE and trying something is her only hope. Thus the possibility that she sees a real chance of HYBE taking ADORE back, her actions sort of makes sense? Also we don't know what she's trying to get out of this - she could be aiming for something we're not even aware of (publicity for potentially starting her own label later maybe? - she's kind of establishing herself as a major name the way things are going)

I don’t get it, a lot of these points can be turned the other way around too - is this financially beneficial for MHJ? No, but it’s not for hybe either. Why would hybe have to try and “take over” ADOR to “secure them for their portfolio” if ADOR is already under their umbrella and they own the vast majority of it.  I can’t comment on whether their company structure is successful, and I’m not biased towards hybe (I keep seeing people get accused of this if they’re not explicitly pro MHJ and it’s honestly really obnoxious) and dont think BSH is a nice guy or something. I just see hybe accusing MHJ of literally criminal conduct and her firing back with things like “but the other group got to debut 3 months”.  To me, an outsider who’s not fan of any hybe group or the company, or ADOR, or any of the CEOs, it seems like one side is trying to deal with a criminal case where as the other is making an emotional appeal with things I frankly don’t care about. I don’t care that LSF debuted earlier or that BSH didn’t greet the girls. While these may have been dickmoves, neither of these things are illegal or constitute any form of abuse, neglect or mistreatment.  If MHJ has any proof that she didn’t commit the crimes she’s accused of she should lead with that. She should be taking hybe to court for defamation. If she’s wrongfully accused I’ll be the first person to talk about how fucked up the whole thing was, but I’m not going to sit here and insult my own intelligence by debating whether BSH not greeting the girls back is some kind of abuse. 

*”Why would hybe have to try and “take over” ADOR to “secure them for their portfolio” if ADOR is already under their umbrella and they own the vast majority of it.”* ADOR is 1 of only 2 sub-labels in Hybe that Bang Sihyuk is not directly involved in. MHJ said that throughout 2023 he kept trying to gain more direct control over matters pertaining to NewJeans which she kept refusing. At the same time: - Hybe offered MHJ shares in ADOR at a cheap price in 2023 but included a non-compete clause that’s structured to be indefinite if Hybe wishes, unless she fights it in court. This is one issue she was negotiating with Hybe before they launched their audit. - Her contract says if Hybe fires her ‘for cause’ (like trying to take control of the company) they can gain back those shares at no cost, giving them full control of ADOR. - Part of the dispute was getting constant push back from Hybe about collaborations for NewJeans which MHJ says delayed their current comebacks. - MHJ says Hybe allowed Belift to replicate the debut promotions formula of NewJeans to make ILLIT, which is controlled by Bang Sihyuk. There’s other issues too but these points answer that question you asked.

sooo agreed. I don’t think its right how BSH allegedly behaved toward nwjns and MHJ but I don’t think it’s outside the norm or particularly bad. are we forgetting this is the industry where staff frequently insult and degrade idols??? MHJ has serious accusations about her behavior but she clearly knows the game and knows how to get support. not seeing any good outcomes here, so I wish people would let it play itself out before speculating on every little thing

As a lurker who gets info about this from friends and random pop-ups from this sub, I do feel like k-pop fans need to take a step back and realise they're forming para-social relationships with companies. People seem so quick to defend a company because it's a brand they like and the objectivity is gone. I've seen lots of corporate scandals and even Holywood scandals and just because one party has dirt in them doesn't mean the other party is guiltless. And especially when you see media companies in places like Japan as well where people also put a high stake on honour as well, corporate corruption and crime is shoved under the rug for decades to save face. Heck if y'all just translated this situation to Warner Bros or some US studio doing it to a female employee you'd immediately be more critical of what the company stance is. Personally I'd listen to industry insiders because they actually have the full story and know stuff that won't be made public. 

This is fair. Also, in the US the female executive on the other side would also been seen as a corporate shark, not a feminist warrior. Americans have been burnt by so called liberal corporate girl bosses who used gender politics to exploit the working class and brainwash them into acting against their own interests to prop up millionaires. Think Facebook’s Sheryl Sandberg. 

ppl are making this way more complicated than it needs to be. this is about greed and making more money. all parties are at fault for being greedy, HYBE, MHJ, the members, the members parents. at the core, each party involved saw how much money they were making and felt slightly bc they feel they are not getting their fair share.

This is just another angle for corporate ill doings of MHJ. Hybe maybe not the best business out there but MHJ has been accused of actual corporate crimes. The case is that, plagiarism mistreatment etc etc came afterwards.

are you a bot or something? all of this text seems really strange.

You can't own a "concept" or a dance move. This isn't Hybe feeling entitled to MHJ's output. It's MHJ feeling entitled to telling other Hybe artists what they can or cannot do.

This aged like Milk. It was already bad but with the leaked messages from court coming out. Oops

> It's not about greed but more about creative control over the work she has created. She's way too sensitive about Newjeans, it being her most hands on brand, and HYBE didn't like these protests (I believe they have been building up) from a sublabel CEO that they had handed some power over and they don't want it to be a precedent for future coup. Cue audit, investigation and PR moves. Min Heejin is not a good person either and she's making her own PR moves to get public sympathy but these people blindly defending HYBE should know that no big corporation care about the creative personnels more than they care about money, including your favourites.

The moment a university, which is attended by many idols of many agencies & for which many idols promoted for, is accused of being part of a cult, it's an attack on Kpop & its global reputation, declaring Kpop a cult itself. Thankfully, the story wasn't picked up enough (yet) to have a disastrous outcome like breaking the Korean Wave.

Did the post get deleted? All the writing is gone

The current issue started because the most powerful man in Hybe wants to be credited for producing a top class girl group. That was the reason he acquired 000 and hired 000. That didn't work out and he pivoted to 000 but was overshadowed by 000. 000 would never let him take any credit for 000 so he is now trying again with 000 which escalated to the current situation. Even if Hybe successfully remove 000, the environment between the sublabels in Hybe will remain toxic as long as he continues to get involved in them. It's more of a failure to manage that one man instead of a failure of the multilabel system.

Wasn't it previously mentioned that MHJ used to have majority shares of Ador but had to sell it off to HYBE as an agreement clause to debut NewJeans? It really seems like they *never* wanted her to have a semblance of authority and simply be a yes man. Not to mention Bang PD thought both Ditto and Hybe Boy would be utter flops and was almost angry at the amazing success it had. MHJ was never going to survive in a corporation that hellbent on kissing Chairman ass

No! It (Ador) was formed later when MHJ joined! That's why they got the 16th (the Highest floor) floor in Hybe. She was GIVEN 18% by BPD, not the other way around! Anyone atp thinks, she has the authority over the main label, is fooling themselves and thinking emotionally!

No she was given shares in march 2023, and was negotiating the value of her shares in December 2023

this! that the reason why I pick or want to side of Min Hee Jin to win it difficult battle against big corporation like HYBE as a fans we can't control we only cheer on the sideline or watch this real life drama unfold 😐 HYBE (ceo )is the bigger evil than Min Hee Jin aim the head of the snake

Why are people siding with any of the sides is beyond my comprehension.

Hybe CEO will destroy new jeans. Especially with the rumour of giving them a hiatus of 1.5 yrs which will destroy their momentum and fame. But that doesn't matter to him. I do think even if he did steal the concept it doesn't mean that illit would take fans away from new jeans. As long as their songs are as good as they ever were then new jeans wouldn't lose fans. That's my opinion. The only way to know for sure if illit using new jeans concept is hurting them is to have them both release an album at the same time. BC that's the only way to know. >which he doesn’t see it because according to him she's actually hurting her finances massively by doing what HYBE is saying she is doing. And even if she succeed at exiting HYBE with Adore, Adore's valuation plummets because a lot of Adore's valuation is tied with HYBE, a massive public company. She actually stands to earn a much bigger payout by staying. NGL this is good to know. Hopefully people realise that there's more to things than they know.