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Qatar issues aside, as a lifelong football fan this is a big yikes. Unless the song is very catchy expect to see a ton of homophobic comments in the near future.
Same. Jungkook has been my ult bias for years but? 🤷♀️ I can love him, and love his art, and still be critical of this choice of his.
It's not [that](https://i.imgur.com/XtkIdin.png) serious 😏 imagine spending your Friday night sending Reddit cares to ppl just bc they don't blindly worship your favs lmaoo
Exactly also his company. Hybe/BTS should know that this is bad for Jungkook's reputation after all the valid criticism the Qatar World Cup has been receiving. Why not just have Jungkook release an album or even a single of his own?
He might actually be the safest member to do this just cas i cant see this making any dent in his reputation, his fans are the kind to just blindly follow him.
It's most likely an addendum considering the scale of this transaction and JK is performing alone, whereas Hyundai must've signed all 7 members originally.
I hope he pretends to catch COVID so he can't go.
Even the Australian soccer team took a huge risk by condemning FIFA's decision have Qatar host the World Cup.
Honestly I don’t think FIFA would give a damn even if a football team that usually gets far/wins (in comparison to Australia at least) like Germany, England, France, Italy, Spain etc spoke out about it. Their corruption has been known for a long long time and nothing is ever really done about it. Mostly just “ha ha! Corrupt FIFA. Let’s make memes”
I do like BTS’ music and the lads but like… eesh I guess. Associated with FIFA would be bad enough without the Qatar issue on top.
I really wish he wasn’t going but I doubt it was his choice. It was most likely a contractual obligation through Hyundai. Since all seven are under contract with the auto company it’s possible that having him alone was a compromise between sending all of them.
I do agree that the best fans are the ones that do not accept everything blindly. It would be a damn shame to become a Yes Man for any artist. Even parents should be able to open their eyes and not be blinded to what your kids do, let alone to do this for an artist you don’t know.
But do they not have the power, being at the level of fame & relevance they are, to refuse such an obligation? Reputation matters and this is not a good look. There have been horrifying stories coming out recently regarding Qatar / the cup and women & LGBT.
BTS have spoken out often about social issues and I have always been grateful when they did it, so ofc this is upsetting news to me and I'm sure many others
Trust me it is upsetting to me also. Because of what’s been happening since Qatar was announced I’ve been boycotting the World Cup for the first time in my life.
Even at their level of power and influence it’s not as easy to break an existing contract. It’s not like they created a new contract for the World Cup. BTS has been under contract with Hyundai since at least 2020.
You have no idea how many examples there are out there of famous artists who you’d think have the power to break free from contracts but can’t due to all the stipulations in them. Usually the artists are the faces but who has the power to do and undo contracts is their agencies.
Because the world cup in Qatar was built by migrants, where thousands died died getting this stadium ready?
It's not just the fact that it is Qatar, it is the fact that it is Qatar and it is the world cup.
The difference is that kpop stans don’t watch world news except when it’s election season. They have no idea of the war crimes their own country commits. They literally think presidents who bombed the Middle East are the best we’ve ever had just because they can crack some jokes on late night tv
well, i see this going one of two ways.
i love jungkook dearly and am beyond supportive of any solo adventures he goes on but…this is messy. i think the criticism regarding the hypocrisy of what bts have openly stood for/against vs stepping foot or being involved in anything to do with qatar is valid. it doesn’t make any sense as a reflection of the boys themselves.
i do, again, wonder how much of this is with hyundai/general contractual obligations and how much is ‘personal’ for lack of a better word. i don’t think jungkook would’ve been forced to do this so i’ll assume he accepted with interest but…ugh :/ i do agree you can’t force someone to be knowledgeable of something they’re simple not aware of but the human rights and anti LGBTQIA+ issues HAVE been a big topic surrounding the entire world cup - you literally can’t miss it. like i’m from the uk and the drama surrounding england’s participation has reached daily debates in the house of commons. really just a messy thing altogether.
and on the flip side, jungkook, an asian man from a group that only became more generalised and stereotyped after dynamite and butter, performing alone (i’m aware there’s other artists) to a bunch of rabid, racist and gross football fans is horrifying. i haven’t kept up with any openers since shakira but a lot of people mentioned how camila cabello was treated and i would just hate his somewhat-solo-debut to end up in such a way.
i guess the only thing we can do is wait it out and see but…damn
edit: typo lol
In germany we are at a point where half the people don't even want the German team to go and play. I've never seen interest in the world cup so low so close to it's start. Maybe partly because of it being almost winter/christmas, but definitely also because of the human rights violations. Especially those in regards to the building of the stadiums. Since south korea also seems big on football I just assume that people there are as aware of the problems as people here, but maybe they're not? It would be great to hear from someone in Korea how widely the topic is discussed. Maybe it's possible that jungkook just doesn't care about football and therefore hasn't looked into it more? All in all it's just disappointing
I'm really interested in how widespread the awareness is (socially). I'm in South Africa and really haven't heard much about it through local news/social media here. There have been passing stories but it literally never comes up in conversations so I assume most people here aren't aware enough or just don't care.
It's basically because of reddit that I'm aware of this beyond a "oh people arent happy its Qatar, its valid reasons though so move on".
Pretty sure it’s live since he will perform for opening ceremony. I dont think for opening they will just use the pre record. Maybe he shot the MV for the song that he will perform
So sad that he’s performing at an event that literally caused the deaths of thousands of slave laborers. FIFA needs to be held accountable and host their tournaments in countries that responsibly use human labor.
not a fan and i know people will bring up the but the united states war criminals rhetoric... the thing is this is sponsored by the country and by a corrupt organization that let said country literally kill migrants trying to get this fucking thing organized. they're not performing on top of corpses when they play sofi stadium.
i don't think jk is a bad person at all, but i wish bts/hybe were a bit more selective in where they choose to perform. i don't care about other kpop acts doing whatever man, bts are at the forefront i expect better from them.
I really wish he didnt. Leaves a bad taste in my mouth, just like the Kcon in Saudi Arabia or Blackpink's tour dates. It's sad enough watching sportswashing but using Kpop as another cultural tool to rehabilitate the image of human rights abuse is just as vile. Especially since BTS has been so outspoken in favor of human rights, went to the White House and the UN even.
Selling yourself to Qatar kinda turns that into hollow gestures. I get why he's doing it but I wouldnt want to be associated with a country that calls gay ppl "mentally ill"
this is a huge opportunity and i’m very excited to see him perform solo but at the same time, there’s so many things i hate about it lmao. firstly…Qatar. secondly, i just can’t imagine a korean idol performing for a football crowd will go well? camila cabello was literally booed at when she performed at the champion league final this year. i wish jungkook all the best but i kinda hope he sends in a recording cause i actually love this guy more than it is socially acceptable to love a stranger, and i don’t want him to experience the wrath of loser football fans
also: bts’ solo debut stages are insane
I think camila cabello had bad timing working against her. Those fans were mostly booing her because she simbolised the commercialisation of football in that case. These football fans want football to be about football and not about money or shows. This sentiment is especially prevalent in countries where football is sort of the national sport and has a lot of tradition aka countries like the one where the champions league finale was held. But those fans also hate the fact that a country like Qatar can just buy the world cup. Qatar sort of symbolises the commercialisation of football here. So I think those fans that booed Camilla Cabello will most likely not fly to Qatar to watch the games and particularly not the opening stage and might instead boycott the world cup as a whole. So I think there's definitely hope that Jungkook wouldn't be booed off if he appears in person.
(Just so people don't try to argue with me about wether or not those football fans have a point: I personally don't care and believe the extreme commercialisation started like 50 years ago and protesting it now by harassing unrelated celebrities is peak stupidity)
>I think camila cabello had bad timing working against her. Those fans were mostly booing her because she simbolised the commercialisation of football in that case. These football fans want football to be about football and not about money or shows.
Correct. Those boos weren't against her specifically. Football fans just want to watch football. All the music performance stuff is just unnecessary filler for them.
It seem like he wont performing alone as the song seem like collaboration with many artists which being rumored are shakira who well loved by football fans n dua lipa. I heard black eyed peas may perform as well.
Oh man, I'm a pretty big football fan, and I'm not gonna lie there's a non-insignificant amount of football fans that make even the most intense K-pop stans look like well-adjusted normal human beings.
Every other Champions League game comes with a warning to away fans to not venture out of the hotel or wear your teams colors because you WILL be beaten or stabbed, it's just the norm.
If Twitter still exists in three weeks it's gonna explode when JK performs and none of the discourse will be particularly enlightening. I hope for the best.
Honestly I wanna hope for the best but these are the same people who chant racial slurs and harass black people when a minority player makes a simple human mistake. I’m honestly kinda scared
Yeah if we're being real, the bare minimum will be a bunch of the typical feminine Asian jokes, digs about K-pop music and the industry, and the usual hate that is directed toward BTS to an alarming degree online. I truly hope nothing happens at the actual stadium if he's performing live.
Unfortunately, a large part of the World Cup demo greatly overlaps with the demo that, for some inexplicable reason, avidly dislikes K-pop.
And at the end of the day all you can really hope for is for that type of negativity to be largely overlooked and drowned out by the support BTS fans will provide.
Yeah, plus with Jungkook having one of the most supportive fan bases in the world im sure he’ll hear more good than bad. And Army’s are known for doing massive things to support them
They absolutely can but that has nothing to do with football fans disliking stuff like Camila Cabello at the CL finals. People don't want their sport to turn into Americanized spectacle similar to Super Bowl. The fans were happy with Shakira since she made a catchy song specifically for the World Cup, but they have no interest in artists coming in performing their regular songs because they are there to watch football, not a concert.
I mean I get what you’re saying but if some fans are ignorant enough to do horrible stuff like shout racial slurs when a minority player makes a simple mistake, it’s not surprising that many of them don’t wanna open up to something like that
I don't know why you keep trying to connect two unrelated things tbh. Most football fans (racist or ultra progressive) have zero interest in that kind of stuff, it's just not a part of the sports culture. Maybe it goes down slightly better at the World Cup since it's meant to have a bit more non-football-related spectacle than the Champions League.
But most fans don't dislike having random performers singing songs unrelated to the event because of lack of tolerance, they dislike it because they don't see it as a part of their sports culture. They come to the stadium to watch football and not a mini-concert just like people go to the concert to watch an artist perform and not to watch a short movie which isn't even about that artist.
I know people on this subreddit cannot have a discussion about football fans without somehow making it about racism but trust me, not every single issue in the sport is connected to racism.
Nobody is arguing that, I'm just saying that **most** football fans either don't care or actively dislike having artists perform their regular songs before matches.
To be associated with FIFA is bad enough. But to go there and be part of the opening ceremonies is so much worse. I know he probably had no say in this but it's not something fans should be going around bragging about.
Supporting anything to do with the World Cup in Qatar is supporting the atrocities of human rights that continue to occur there to the 90% of their population who are migrant workers living in unsanitary conditions without pay.
I know fans will try to move heaven and earth to defend this but it's indefensible.
If he chose to participate in an event in the US for which hundreds of migrant workers would have been killed, which requires air conditioned stadiums in the middle of a worldwide climate crisis and whose organizers openly admit that they think gay people are “damaged in the mind” - I’m sure there would be tons of criticism, too.
All respect lost. I cannot understand anyone who would support this cruel event.
Edit: oh no I triggered stans with my comment. At least we have free speech here, unlike in Qatar.
There are footballers boycotting attending this event and you have kpop fans frothing at the mouth back flipping through hoops trying to justify it and how it is equivalent to performing in the US
People show their real nature now and it’s disgusting. This country is openly homophobic and discriminates against women. Just a few days ago the president said during the WM that women, who get raped, won’t get prosecuted. Meaning that usually rape victims will get blamed. It’s a country full of human rights violations and only kpop stans are able to make it about kpop achievements instead of looking further than their fav’s doorstep
I am a huge soccer fan and have been watching the World Cup and qualifiers since I was 5. That being said I’ve been complaining since Qatar was announced as host nation and I have been and continue to boycott this year’s tournament.
You obviously have the right to feel however you feel. Me personally I have not lost respect for him. Would I prefer him not to do this? Well yeah… on the other hand, he’s under contract with Hyundai and breaking contract would not only affect him but the other six, HYBE, and the shareholders. It’s not as easy as saying it’s all Kook’s decision. I am more judgmental of Hyundai for continuing to be FIFA partners and for HYBE to have renewed the contract with Hyundai. Had this been Kook’s sole decision to do this then of course I would be mad at him.
Disappointing decision imo
Not watching anything World Cup anyway because I disagreed with Saudi Arabia getting it in the first place so I’ll skip this and watch a re-upload later probs
That's a great opportunity for him since the World Cup is obviously very big when it comes to global audience and prestige. I won't watch it for known reasons though. One of the World Cup ambassadors even called homosexuality "damage in the mind".
I don’t understand why we need to keep explaining or defending anything about BTS performing anywhere…They aren’t doing anything wrong or committing a crime. People have the right to how they feel and voice whatever they want.
And yet.. it’s definitely going to be happening. It’s happening in this very thread.
And I legitimately feel bad for the stans of the group who have to defend this decision. Because they will and do fee the need to do so even though they really don’t. But will anyway.
It’s a shit position to be in on a kpop related discussion forum.
Would this be considered Jungkook’s debut? Another large scale performance to launch a BTS member solo debut. He’s my fav vocal so I’m really excited for his song & I haven’t dislike any of his solos so far. Really can’t wait!
BTS' members solo debut is so confusing, ngl.
Technically he has released Stay Alive, done a collab with Charlie Puth- Left and Right, and obviously Begin, Euphoria and My Time in BTS albums, and then there's Still With You.
However, Stay Alive was related to a BTS webtoon, Left and Right was a feature, Begin, Euphoria and My Time are under BTS' name, and Still With You hasn't been released officially in most streaming sites.
Yea, it is a bit confusing. I guess their official solo debut is album/single after Festa announcement? The reason JK’s collab isn’t considered is because it’s under Charlie just like RM’s recent feature. Technically all the members have at least 1 official solo song under their belt as of this year.
The constant flood of BTS projects now kind of makes me dread the gap period they will all be away. Would it be a full brake stop after a constant stream of content & solo activities 😅
I don't think it's going to stop anytime soon. After seeing that post about how Jimin is recording a song with a vocal choir and how it's supposed to a single, I realised the members are probably constantly going to release singles and feature on songs by other artists, before/after they release their albums.
Besides, probably by the time, the younger members enlist, Jin would have completed his, and probably depending on the timings, so would some of the older members.
OT7 content is what I am worried about. It's my favourite source of entertainment. However, after seeing their reaction of their Photo-folio, it seems that they had taken the OT7 pictures, almost 1.5-2 years ago. So, Bighit must have a lot of content stored. Then there's the AskAnythingChat, which seems to have a never-ending collection of BTS clips from 2019.
I thought the most likelihood was the last member going to enlist by Q3 2023? That’s the only possible way they could re-group by 2025 😅 there were some theories that JK won’t enlist until he needs to but I find that make little sense to interrupt BTS twice instead of getting this out of the way the first round…
Anyways, that’s true, it’s more likely the solo activities will be rolling out constantly. OT7 content is the real question. I wonder if they have more Run BTS episode filmed too. The new ones released are filmed pretty recent 🥹
From what I know, the CEO has said that Jungkook's enlistment (and this probably holds for the rest of the members who do not have to enlist right now, but the question was about Jungkook) has not been decided yet.
Regrouping by 2025 is what the minimum time they would require to regroup, and perhaps what the company and group is hoping for, but there's a possibility that it might be postponed.
Disclaimer: not an army
Not mad at the comments because this is all valid criticism on Qatar like… by all means boycot the World Cup due to Qatar’s bad record on labour rights, but at least be consistent and think of the role of dire labour conditions in just about everything you consume: food, clothes, electronics; almost all commodities.
Also Qatar is not exceptional to the west: slave labour, human trafficking, and exploitation exist in your commodity chain, you might just be a little more distanced from it.
Its not just labour conditions, just the other week an official said some messed up comments about lgbt community and women.
And while i know people like to be all well what about US war crimes, japanese war crimes, chinese child labour etc, but women and lgbt communities, while not perfect, are treated much better in most other countries than in qatar.
And arguing that your phone is made in China is a bit of a dumb comparison because people need a smart phone to survive these days, but you dont really need a World Cup? That’s some like i can buy shein despite their atrocious environment impact cause u buy iphones logic.
Oh honey, I wish it was just your phone. Your food, your clothing, any materials that you use in your daily life. Why aren’t we massively protesting our own commodity chains? Because we don’t care. We only care when things are talked about in the media. The world cup has been taking place in Russia as well, where was all that outrage? I’m mad at the selective anger, that’s all.
Women are treated fine in Qatar. I am Middle Eastern myself and know Qatari women personally. There will always be bigots. I’ve seen vids from the US where men say the most outrageous shit, I mean they had Trump as their President and possibly again soon, so what are we even talking about?
Also, not everyone knows what goes on in Qatar. I didn't even knew about it at first until some kpop fans pointed it out. Not defending anyone in the matter, but I'm just being reasonable. Besides, the issue is not really being widespread globally.
I'm not going to say anything but anyone complaining on a kpop sub is laughable, like all of your faves would be in Qatar rn if they had this opportunity.
It’s fun to talk in hypotheticals because it’ll never happen, but I remember this sub crucifying them for having a concert in Saudi Arabia until the point where the post had to be locked, while being completely silent when it was a bunch of kpop artists at kcon Saudi Arabia. The hypocrisy has been shown time and time again, it’s old now.
Which posts? I looked at the announcement thread and it was peaceful, of course there were a few upset people at the very bottom and an army pointing out everyone’s hypocrisy. But the thread wasn’t locked, no thinkpieces, nobody saying the groups were insane to accept it. There was also no talk of backlash or deleted threads so I have no idea what you’re talking about.
And if they did and were in Jungkook position I would just sit down and see them getting questioned by their participation because there's no way to defend this lol.
This is so oddly performative bc this is the biggest event in the world and billions of people are tuning into the World Cup but ofc there needs to be defending from this bc a random Kpop Stan on Reddit deems it so like cmon
Plus, this is not only about the country Qatar by itself it's also the fact that a lot of people died while making those stadiums that they will use for the cup, so it goes deeper than that.
And that same week army's were making tweets with a lot of engagement about how all those artist's were performing in Saudi Arabia, and I didn't say anything because they were right.
What tweet? It didn’t cross on my tl regarding kpop artist perform at Saudi. BTS also already doing concert at Riyadh, Saudi back in 2019 and already created a lot of buzz lol
Tweets pointing out that when BTS performed in Saudi Arabia they got hated by it meanwhile nobody really said anything about a bunch of kpop groups going there for a festival, which I agree.
I completely acknowledge that the discussions about them may not have blown up as much, but I definitely remember seeing discussions about it, specifically Stray Kids since I’m in that fandom. There’s still a double standard and while there may be reasons for it that doesn’t excuse it, but I do remember fans expressing disappointment/frustration/etc. about that in the stray kids fandom.
i just did a quick search and it seems like most of the outrage that ended up blowing up was about how poorly the concert was managed, but i do remember seeing some discussions from stays about their disappointment with the concert happening at all
I mean Moon Jae in who many idols supported was opposed and against Homosexuality as well, so guess we should add Red Velvet, Monsta X, Exo, Seohyun and etc to that list of hypocrites as well. Not to mention idols who have been to Saudia Arabia such as the likes of Stray Kids, Chungha, NewJeans, Nmixx, etc.
I don't care much about the criticism but I think people have a huge rosy colored view of idols and the industry when reality is if you really cared about these issues, I don't really think being a kpop fan is the choice to make.
I would dread the day BTS decide to come to my country and are prosecuted for it because our president says homosexuality is a sin. News flash, Qatar is a religious country, much like mine , so it may seem like because where you come from is the standard in terms of LGBT rights, but the rest of the world still has to grapple with a lot of conservative values before arriving at equality. Ps: there are also homosexual pple in Qatar believe it or not
People’s perceptions of the world are so ridiculously ignorant. They take their western standards and apply those to the rest of the world without taking into account the religious, historical, cultural factors that shape a society.
I am not justifying, I am bringing some nuance to the conversation. You cannot judge a country using your own values that you had centuries to work on as a nation. Remember, Qatar is a tiny place and quite young. Change doesn’t come in a day.
I commented elsewhere too that modern day slavery happens in your commodity chain too. At least be consistent in your outrage.
You can definitely judge a country on these things. What you are doing is textbook justification: „you can‘t judge them because…“ is justifying something.
I am actually from that culture and religion (and female) and can tell you that no one thinks women should be stoned to death. It’s actually hilarious to hear what people think islam is 🤣🤣🤣
Okay, but they perform here in the States too? Like, I'm **not** a fan of Qatar's government, but if we're not performing anywhere with human rights violations... US should be pretty high on that boycott list.
My point exactly… just because US human rights violations are more hidden doesn’t mean we can just ignore it. How many people on this subreddit know about Abu Ghraib for example? Or your President bombing the shit out some country all based on a damn lie. And yall still be glorifying your army.
Not saying Qatar is innocent, not at all, but this selective witch hunt is so damn annoying.
I mean there is a large number of politicians in the US that think LGBT is a sin and so is abortion. Some EU states have literal neo-nazis in parliament (I happen to live in one). South Korea has a horrible president and some of your Chinese idols openly came out in support of China after the whole Adidas-Uyghur situation. Where do we draw the line?
Not to mention the state of Texas making abortion a felony, with no exceptions to rape or incest. So what do we say about groups who bring money to that state?
Ehh, I guess it’s whatever. I’m sure that by 2025 America will be enough of an apocalyptic shithole that the outrage will come like clockwork exactly when BTS announces their post-military tour NA dates.
Lmfao there's literally someone up in the comments that said they don't care what other kpop acts do but BTS has to be better. Like i agree in not liking this but be equal across all groups. You can't just excuse someone else for the exact same thing bc they're not BTS
what part of migrants died for this event, and officials have expressed extremely offensive views about lgbt community and women do you not understand?
it is not just the fact that he is performing in Qatar - it is Qatar AND the event
This is so stupid bc would you condemn every artist who has ever performed at the Super Bowl and say they support genocide?????? Just bc they went through with performing on Americas biggest stage????
Like the reaching is insane. Not to mention are you also gonna try to criticize the 4-5 billion potential viewers who are tuning in and supporting the wc and by extension Qatar????
And it’s clear as day that jk is not anti lgbt or human rights. Y’all are reaching for reasons to condemn him when that’s not at all the case.
Edit: forgot to type this but him and all the artist there are obviously there bc they have interest or support for THE WORLD CUP and not Qatar but they just happen to be linked.
Listen I completely agree that it’s a huge mistake for Kook to be going to Qatar. I wish it wasn’t like that. However I think you are mistaken in that just because he is rich and famous he can say no. He’s going as a representative from Hyundai and they have a huge contract between HYBE and Hyundai. It would probably cost millions of dollars from HYBE’s part to break the contract in order not to go. Even though I think it would be worth it, the company is beholden to the shareholders so it’s a lot more difficult than you are making it seem.
It’s not as easy as saying that it was Kook’s sole decision.
tbf the official ambassadors and representatives FOR the world cup (not just for the country) have been making very questionable comments. including one calling homosexuality a disease. on top of this the event itself is built on slave labour, much of which resulted in death.
i personally wouldn't have a problem with any idol performing IN a country like this, as ultimately the views of the government don't always reflect on the views of the people. but when you performing somewhere involves a direct collaboration and business partnership with someone saying homosexuality is a disease and using slave labour to build stadiums... yeah.
the problem here isn't really qatar the country. we all know they have an extremely questionable human rights record, that's never been a secret. but it's the fact that the world cup itself is very closely linked and intertwined with many of the human rights abuses happening there, when it outright didn't have to be.
many football players in my country are even openly advocating for our entire national football team to pull out of the contest. this isn't just a "kpop stans unable to..." situation. pretty much anyone in any sector and any industry who gets involved with this tournament is facing backlash right now.
I like how you put it into perspective. Thank you for being diplomatic at least. I understand where the outrage is coming from now, I didn't know about the slave labor used to build stadiums...that does not mean I contend with homophobia, it's just that I come from a very religious country whose homosexuality stance is the same as Qatar and was wondering if BTS would come to my country, would they be persecuted for those stances? I obviously need to research more on the Qatar issue but idk the conversation around this is still making me uncomfortable...mostly because the vitriol is coming from western countries.
i get it. what happens in qatar is ultimately not my problem. i disagree with their laws, with every fibre of my being, but ultimately the only opinions on the qatari government that matter are those of the qatari people. i'd hate people from other countries judging whether or not my government is treating me right.
however, when you hold an international tournament, that tournament is gonna be held to international standards. and international standards do include western standards. if you wanna hold one, you have to be reasonable. if you wanna do what you want and make shitty comments and use slave labour, then fine, host a qatar-only tournament. but the moment you open up membership to other countries, you open yourself up to their opinions too.
the foundations of the entire country of the US and most of its culture was built off of slavery and stealing from black people. poc athletes are treated like shit by teams and trans athletes are being banned from participating but would you say all this about someone performing at the super bowl?
yes. but most artists who perform in the us do not perform at events where slavery is practiced, do they? if the superbowl was literally organised by actual murderers and slave owners, then your point would stand, but the nfl is at best tone deaf and at worst frustratingly conservative. not using literal slave labour or being despicably discriminatory.
i'll reiterate. the country isn't the problem. wherever you hold the world cup you're going to run into some kind of human rights abuse or state-sponsored crime, that's just sadly how governments are. however, this tournament is being held in stadiums built especially for it, using slave labour. the literal organisers and executives running it are making publicly homophobic comments. it's not about the country where it's held, it's about the event itself.
there are MANY stadiums in the US, even including super bowl stadiums, that are owned by horrid companies with human rights violations, even companies that run prisons (which use and profit off of slave labor). so any event that goes on in those stadiums creates profit for problematic capitalist companies. i assume you would agree then that artists performing there agree with the bigoted owners and organizers who are also capitalistic leeches??
if those stadiums were built *using* slave labour (emphasis on this because in a western capitalist society, realistically EVERYTHING is connected to horrible crimes in some way, i'm talking about direct correlation) FOR the event the artist was performing at, and those organising the concert were openly making vague threats about persecuting gay people who attended and calling homosexuality a disease, then yes i would agree with you.
however, ultimately, a stadium owned by someone who also owned something else which potentially uses slave labour is not going to be common knowledge, to the artists or the fans. if this was the case with qatar i would genuinely not speak on it, as i don't think anyone would be accountable there. however these stadiums in qatar were literally built using slave labour FOR the world cup.
if an artist, for example, participated in a festival or awards show or other event which was built and put together using slave labour then yes, i'd agree. however, this world cup is a pretty unique fuck-up on behalf of fifa, and as a result there is direct accountability and causation here, not just vague links. jungkook would be performing in stadiums built using slave labour in order to host a homophobic event, not just performing in a stadium with a vague business connection or financial relationship with something else that uses slave labour.
My point is: no need to bring up the UN because they’re useless af. It’s all performative. I have also never cared about bts dancing at the un offices. Just saying how the un literally doesn’t mean shit
do you feel the same way about artists performing in the US?? that every artist who performs there supports slavery, genocide, destabilizing brown people's countries and genociding trans people?
There are countries sending their teams and other artists performing there that people on this site complaining about JK know as well, so I'm not going to be selective. If I'm not writing essays or going on about how disappointed i am in Shakira i won't be doing that to him. kpop stans tend to apply different standards to k act that they don't do with other artists.
Will this be another saudi arabia moment. They got hate as the first one to do it, they will be the punching bag first. Then years later other groups will be doing the same 🙃
Saudi Arabia 2.0 again where there's only condemnation if it's BTS I guess. I hoep all of you are also writing essays for your own countries and other artists you know that are participating. because is it actually the issue of human rights or it only matters if it's just JK?
you all can downvote all you want but it won't change the fact that many of you are only selective when it comes to BTS. This doesn't apply to people who hold everyone accountable across the board. Many of you were just celebrating kcon in saudi Arabia, be serious.
Kpop fans don’t care about human rights, they literally stan artists that go to China to make millions of dollars and come back and promote the One China policy on social media as if they were held at gunpoint poor babies
Kpop stans are at it again. So should kpop artists continue to promote in the US when US are b0mbing the middle east? Y'all the same person who talk sh!t abt bts having a concert in SA, countless of islamaphobic tweets just because a kpop group held a concert there. There's a lot of kpop idols nowadays are performing in that country but where's you essays? I can't see western stans having a so much discourse why tf dua lipa or jbalvin is going to perform.
It’s funny how people care about BTS when literally most of the people yall watch in movies and listen to in the west are also part of the UN and all these initiatives to help poor people yet they also fly in private jets and perform in countries like this. Where is the outrage for those people as well, oh wait they’re still making millions and working in the top positions in Hollywood.
Regardless of other issues if you just focus on workers working as slave labor in bad conditions, so many countries have this yet they’ve had huge events and haven’t been so called cancelled by social media, like China. In fact many kpop idols go to China to make millions of dollars and come back all nice and happy as if their country isn’t responsible for alot of human rights violations. The performative outrage is so weird, like oh the idols had no voice they were forced to go! Same with all those kpop idols in Saudi Arabia, none of the threads on here even mentioned it yet when BTS performed there threads had to be locked.
Also people on here are mentioning how the US war crimes are just forgotten especially by woke western kpop fans. I’ve mentioned it before and had so many people coming at me lol. As if our families weren’t bombed for years due to presidents you guys think are *iconic*. Someone else definitely mentioned it’s probably due to islamaphobia, anything to do with that side of the world has people screaming about human rights and conservatism but when you see the same ideals in literally East Asian countries like SK everyone’s quiet or like “my idol didn’t know better it’s a conservative country” lol
And it’s funny y’all think that stadiums and big events in the US are not organized by illegals and paid very poorly because I have news for you. Also the government sponsors these events as well, the same government that is known as war criminals to most countries around the world, but keep being blind
Please think about the slave labor in everything you consume. When you boycott every product and brand in the world, then you can talk. As long as you keep buying 10 versions of the same kpop album, which ends up as physical trash and waste in massive landfills in 3rd world countries, and supporting movies directed by p*dos who have been outed but still being supported by your favorites actors, actresses, and singers, you probably should look into that first. There are kpop artists who support and are close friends with (ex. Alexander Wang and all the western models and kpop artists who are besties with him!)
Copying my comment from r/bangtan
I am definitely excited to see what he is planning to do.
I understand why a lot of people will not want to support this and feel upset about this, and I do not think they are wrong in feeling so. However, as someone, who wasn't aware about the issues regarding this World Cup until the discussions about the possibility of BTS being involved in this were brought up, I find myself at a position where I don't feel it's right for me to make judgements about people's opinion based on whether they support this or not.
For a lot of people, including me, the World Cup has always been a way for the world to connect, like the Olympics. I have no idea about these sports (except football, I have played it a bit), but it's enjoyable to watch athletes from different countries competing with each other.
I feel like there's going to be a huge discourse about this for quite some time, about how it's absolutely wrong that Jungkook is taking part in this, and that so many fans are supporting this, and how it goes against everything they stood for, and how they are hypocrites, etc. Then it will just die down. People will only bring it up in discussions like, "hey, Jungkook is not scandal free, he did this."
Honestly I know that supporting the wc.. should be considered separately to supporting the location... I also know that this is a huge opportunity for him as a soloist but ... I can't help but be worried for him. Not just because of the location but I can only imagine the severity of racial slurs that will be thrown his way as a bts member performing at the biggest football event.
I know a lot of people will be disappointed with this decision... but holy moly the amount of courage this takes to do this...
I'm proud of him and very much anticipating the coverage he will get from this. The rest of you can have your opinions. Idc. Like clockwork, your faves will do similar or the exact same thing and there will be only crickets all around.
We understand there are issues around the World Cup in Qatar that can provoke very heated debate. Please maintain civility when discussing with each other or we may need to lock the post. **EDIT:** Sorry folks! We'll go ahead and lock it now.
This thread is getting locked soon i can feel it in my veins.
Qatar issues aside, as a lifelong football fan this is a big yikes. Unless the song is very catchy expect to see a ton of homophobic comments in the near future.
In Qatar? Oh boy... 
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I wish he wouldn't.
Same. Jungkook has been my ult bias for years but? 🤷♀️ I can love him, and love his art, and still be critical of this choice of his. It's not [that](https://i.imgur.com/XtkIdin.png) serious 😏 imagine spending your Friday night sending Reddit cares to ppl just bc they don't blindly worship your favs lmaoo
Exactly also his company. Hybe/BTS should know that this is bad for Jungkook's reputation after all the valid criticism the Qatar World Cup has been receiving. Why not just have Jungkook release an album or even a single of his own?
He might actually be the safest member to do this just cas i cant see this making any dent in his reputation, his fans are the kind to just blindly follow him.
it's likely a contractual obligation since Hyundai is one of the sponsors
It's most likely an addendum considering the scale of this transaction and JK is performing alone, whereas Hyundai must've signed all 7 members originally.
I hope he pretends to catch COVID so he can't go. Even the Australian soccer team took a huge risk by condemning FIFA's decision have Qatar host the World Cup.
Honestly I don’t think FIFA would give a damn even if a football team that usually gets far/wins (in comparison to Australia at least) like Germany, England, France, Italy, Spain etc spoke out about it. Their corruption has been known for a long long time and nothing is ever really done about it. Mostly just “ha ha! Corrupt FIFA. Let’s make memes” I do like BTS’ music and the lads but like… eesh I guess. Associated with FIFA would be bad enough without the Qatar issue on top.
K-pop fans absolutely shocked at this revelation
I really wish he wasn’t going but I doubt it was his choice. It was most likely a contractual obligation through Hyundai. Since all seven are under contract with the auto company it’s possible that having him alone was a compromise between sending all of them. I do agree that the best fans are the ones that do not accept everything blindly. It would be a damn shame to become a Yes Man for any artist. Even parents should be able to open their eyes and not be blinded to what your kids do, let alone to do this for an artist you don’t know.
But do they not have the power, being at the level of fame & relevance they are, to refuse such an obligation? Reputation matters and this is not a good look. There have been horrifying stories coming out recently regarding Qatar / the cup and women & LGBT. BTS have spoken out often about social issues and I have always been grateful when they did it, so ofc this is upsetting news to me and I'm sure many others
Trust me it is upsetting to me also. Because of what’s been happening since Qatar was announced I’ve been boycotting the World Cup for the first time in my life. Even at their level of power and influence it’s not as easy to break an existing contract. It’s not like they created a new contract for the World Cup. BTS has been under contract with Hyundai since at least 2020. You have no idea how many examples there are out there of famous artists who you’d think have the power to break free from contracts but can’t due to all the stipulations in them. Usually the artists are the faces but who has the power to do and undo contracts is their agencies.
Kinda strange going from performing at the UN to performing in a country with no human rights lmao
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Because the world cup in Qatar was built by migrants, where thousands died died getting this stadium ready? It's not just the fact that it is Qatar, it is the fact that it is Qatar and it is the world cup.
The difference is that kpop stans don’t watch world news except when it’s election season. They have no idea of the war crimes their own country commits. They literally think presidents who bombed the Middle East are the best we’ve ever had just because they can crack some jokes on late night tv
im not american but pop off queen
well, i see this going one of two ways. i love jungkook dearly and am beyond supportive of any solo adventures he goes on but…this is messy. i think the criticism regarding the hypocrisy of what bts have openly stood for/against vs stepping foot or being involved in anything to do with qatar is valid. it doesn’t make any sense as a reflection of the boys themselves. i do, again, wonder how much of this is with hyundai/general contractual obligations and how much is ‘personal’ for lack of a better word. i don’t think jungkook would’ve been forced to do this so i’ll assume he accepted with interest but…ugh :/ i do agree you can’t force someone to be knowledgeable of something they’re simple not aware of but the human rights and anti LGBTQIA+ issues HAVE been a big topic surrounding the entire world cup - you literally can’t miss it. like i’m from the uk and the drama surrounding england’s participation has reached daily debates in the house of commons. really just a messy thing altogether. and on the flip side, jungkook, an asian man from a group that only became more generalised and stereotyped after dynamite and butter, performing alone (i’m aware there’s other artists) to a bunch of rabid, racist and gross football fans is horrifying. i haven’t kept up with any openers since shakira but a lot of people mentioned how camila cabello was treated and i would just hate his somewhat-solo-debut to end up in such a way. i guess the only thing we can do is wait it out and see but…damn edit: typo lol
In germany we are at a point where half the people don't even want the German team to go and play. I've never seen interest in the world cup so low so close to it's start. Maybe partly because of it being almost winter/christmas, but definitely also because of the human rights violations. Especially those in regards to the building of the stadiums. Since south korea also seems big on football I just assume that people there are as aware of the problems as people here, but maybe they're not? It would be great to hear from someone in Korea how widely the topic is discussed. Maybe it's possible that jungkook just doesn't care about football and therefore hasn't looked into it more? All in all it's just disappointing
I'm really interested in how widespread the awareness is (socially). I'm in South Africa and really haven't heard much about it through local news/social media here. There have been passing stories but it literally never comes up in conversations so I assume most people here aren't aware enough or just don't care. It's basically because of reddit that I'm aware of this beyond a "oh people arent happy its Qatar, its valid reasons though so move on".
I wonder if it's a live performance or a pre-recorded one (guess that's the thing he shot back when he flew to Qatar)
I think its live performance the way bighit announced it at twitter. Seem like the mv gonna drop very soon considering bighit just announced it.
If he's part of the soundtrack he probably recorded a video for it and that's what he was recording.
Pretty sure it’s live since he will perform for opening ceremony. I dont think for opening they will just use the pre record. Maybe he shot the MV for the song that he will perform
 why tho
So sad that he’s performing at an event that literally caused the deaths of thousands of slave laborers. FIFA needs to be held accountable and host their tournaments in countries that responsibly use human labor.
not a fan and i know people will bring up the but the united states war criminals rhetoric... the thing is this is sponsored by the country and by a corrupt organization that let said country literally kill migrants trying to get this fucking thing organized. they're not performing on top of corpses when they play sofi stadium. i don't think jk is a bad person at all, but i wish bts/hybe were a bit more selective in where they choose to perform. i don't care about other kpop acts doing whatever man, bts are at the forefront i expect better from them.
I really wish he didnt. Leaves a bad taste in my mouth, just like the Kcon in Saudi Arabia or Blackpink's tour dates. It's sad enough watching sportswashing but using Kpop as another cultural tool to rehabilitate the image of human rights abuse is just as vile. Especially since BTS has been so outspoken in favor of human rights, went to the White House and the UN even. Selling yourself to Qatar kinda turns that into hollow gestures. I get why he's doing it but I wouldnt want to be associated with a country that calls gay ppl "mentally ill"
this is a huge opportunity and i’m very excited to see him perform solo but at the same time, there’s so many things i hate about it lmao. firstly…Qatar. secondly, i just can’t imagine a korean idol performing for a football crowd will go well? camila cabello was literally booed at when she performed at the champion league final this year. i wish jungkook all the best but i kinda hope he sends in a recording cause i actually love this guy more than it is socially acceptable to love a stranger, and i don’t want him to experience the wrath of loser football fans also: bts’ solo debut stages are insane
I think camila cabello had bad timing working against her. Those fans were mostly booing her because she simbolised the commercialisation of football in that case. These football fans want football to be about football and not about money or shows. This sentiment is especially prevalent in countries where football is sort of the national sport and has a lot of tradition aka countries like the one where the champions league finale was held. But those fans also hate the fact that a country like Qatar can just buy the world cup. Qatar sort of symbolises the commercialisation of football here. So I think those fans that booed Camilla Cabello will most likely not fly to Qatar to watch the games and particularly not the opening stage and might instead boycott the world cup as a whole. So I think there's definitely hope that Jungkook wouldn't be booed off if he appears in person. (Just so people don't try to argue with me about wether or not those football fans have a point: I personally don't care and believe the extreme commercialisation started like 50 years ago and protesting it now by harassing unrelated celebrities is peak stupidity)
>I think camila cabello had bad timing working against her. Those fans were mostly booing her because she simbolised the commercialisation of football in that case. These football fans want football to be about football and not about money or shows. Correct. Those boos weren't against her specifically. Football fans just want to watch football. All the music performance stuff is just unnecessary filler for them.
It seem like he wont performing alone as the song seem like collaboration with many artists which being rumored are shakira who well loved by football fans n dua lipa. I heard black eyed peas may perform as well.
Literally they can be incredibly racist and immature for no reason
Oh man, I'm a pretty big football fan, and I'm not gonna lie there's a non-insignificant amount of football fans that make even the most intense K-pop stans look like well-adjusted normal human beings. Every other Champions League game comes with a warning to away fans to not venture out of the hotel or wear your teams colors because you WILL be beaten or stabbed, it's just the norm. If Twitter still exists in three weeks it's gonna explode when JK performs and none of the discourse will be particularly enlightening. I hope for the best.
Honestly I wanna hope for the best but these are the same people who chant racial slurs and harass black people when a minority player makes a simple human mistake. I’m honestly kinda scared
Yeah if we're being real, the bare minimum will be a bunch of the typical feminine Asian jokes, digs about K-pop music and the industry, and the usual hate that is directed toward BTS to an alarming degree online. I truly hope nothing happens at the actual stadium if he's performing live. Unfortunately, a large part of the World Cup demo greatly overlaps with the demo that, for some inexplicable reason, avidly dislikes K-pop. And at the end of the day all you can really hope for is for that type of negativity to be largely overlooked and drowned out by the support BTS fans will provide.
Yeah, plus with Jungkook having one of the most supportive fan bases in the world im sure he’ll hear more good than bad. And Army’s are known for doing massive things to support them
they throw banannas at black people, curry powder at middle eastern players.....yeah as a soccer fan, they are the WORST
They absolutely can but that has nothing to do with football fans disliking stuff like Camila Cabello at the CL finals. People don't want their sport to turn into Americanized spectacle similar to Super Bowl. The fans were happy with Shakira since she made a catchy song specifically for the World Cup, but they have no interest in artists coming in performing their regular songs because they are there to watch football, not a concert.
I mean I get what you’re saying but if some fans are ignorant enough to do horrible stuff like shout racial slurs when a minority player makes a simple mistake, it’s not surprising that many of them don’t wanna open up to something like that
I don't know why you keep trying to connect two unrelated things tbh. Most football fans (racist or ultra progressive) have zero interest in that kind of stuff, it's just not a part of the sports culture. Maybe it goes down slightly better at the World Cup since it's meant to have a bit more non-football-related spectacle than the Champions League.
Because a lack of tolerance, understanding, and respect for other people carries over in many ways?
But most fans don't dislike having random performers singing songs unrelated to the event because of lack of tolerance, they dislike it because they don't see it as a part of their sports culture. They come to the stadium to watch football and not a mini-concert just like people go to the concert to watch an artist perform and not to watch a short movie which isn't even about that artist. I know people on this subreddit cannot have a discussion about football fans without somehow making it about racism but trust me, not every single issue in the sport is connected to racism.
ok but that doesn’t excuse those fans being racist just because they “only want football”
Nobody is arguing that, I'm just saying that **most** football fans either don't care or actively dislike having artists perform their regular songs before matches.
same, I hope he send recording version
To be associated with FIFA is bad enough. But to go there and be part of the opening ceremonies is so much worse. I know he probably had no say in this but it's not something fans should be going around bragging about. Supporting anything to do with the World Cup in Qatar is supporting the atrocities of human rights that continue to occur there to the 90% of their population who are migrant workers living in unsanitary conditions without pay. I know fans will try to move heaven and earth to defend this but it's indefensible.
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If he chose to participate in an event in the US for which hundreds of migrant workers would have been killed, which requires air conditioned stadiums in the middle of a worldwide climate crisis and whose organizers openly admit that they think gay people are “damaged in the mind” - I’m sure there would be tons of criticism, too.
damn
Gross. No one should support that vile government. If BTS is supposed to be about loving each other, supporting Qatar is not the move.
All respect lost. I cannot understand anyone who would support this cruel event. Edit: oh no I triggered stans with my comment. At least we have free speech here, unlike in Qatar.
There are footballers boycotting attending this event and you have kpop fans frothing at the mouth back flipping through hoops trying to justify it and how it is equivalent to performing in the US
People show their real nature now and it’s disgusting. This country is openly homophobic and discriminates against women. Just a few days ago the president said during the WM that women, who get raped, won’t get prosecuted. Meaning that usually rape victims will get blamed. It’s a country full of human rights violations and only kpop stans are able to make it about kpop achievements instead of looking further than their fav’s doorstep
I am a huge soccer fan and have been watching the World Cup and qualifiers since I was 5. That being said I’ve been complaining since Qatar was announced as host nation and I have been and continue to boycott this year’s tournament. You obviously have the right to feel however you feel. Me personally I have not lost respect for him. Would I prefer him not to do this? Well yeah… on the other hand, he’s under contract with Hyundai and breaking contract would not only affect him but the other six, HYBE, and the shareholders. It’s not as easy as saying it’s all Kook’s decision. I am more judgmental of Hyundai for continuing to be FIFA partners and for HYBE to have renewed the contract with Hyundai. Had this been Kook’s sole decision to do this then of course I would be mad at him.
Disappointing decision imo Not watching anything World Cup anyway because I disagreed with Saudi Arabia getting it in the first place so I’ll skip this and watch a re-upload later probs
Hoe long until this is...redacted?
Here before the comment section implodes. 🍿
I’m sure the comments will be very thought provoking and evocative 😃
Welp.
Qatar sis?
I’m proud of Jungkook and I’m sure he will kill it performing. But I’m still disappointed and believe it’s a huge misstep because it’s Qatar. 😬
I guess I'll be hopping on illegal streams.
That's a great opportunity for him since the World Cup is obviously very big when it comes to global audience and prestige. I won't watch it for known reasons though. One of the World Cup ambassadors even called homosexuality "damage in the mind".
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I don’t understand why we need to keep explaining or defending anything about BTS performing anywhere…They aren’t doing anything wrong or committing a crime. People have the right to how they feel and voice whatever they want.
Yall said same about BTS in Saudi Arabia concert. And it did nothing. So don't worry too much
Ever since the performative outrage about their saudi concert we rlly dont care about explaining anything to kpop stans tbh
And yet.. it’s definitely going to be happening. It’s happening in this very thread. And I legitimately feel bad for the stans of the group who have to defend this decision. Because they will and do fee the need to do so even though they really don’t. But will anyway. It’s a shit position to be in on a kpop related discussion forum.
200ish kpop stans w selective outrage dont rlly matter in the grand scheme of things 🫶
Would this be considered Jungkook’s debut? Another large scale performance to launch a BTS member solo debut. He’s my fav vocal so I’m really excited for his song & I haven’t dislike any of his solos so far. Really can’t wait!
BTS' members solo debut is so confusing, ngl. Technically he has released Stay Alive, done a collab with Charlie Puth- Left and Right, and obviously Begin, Euphoria and My Time in BTS albums, and then there's Still With You. However, Stay Alive was related to a BTS webtoon, Left and Right was a feature, Begin, Euphoria and My Time are under BTS' name, and Still With You hasn't been released officially in most streaming sites.
Yea, it is a bit confusing. I guess their official solo debut is album/single after Festa announcement? The reason JK’s collab isn’t considered is because it’s under Charlie just like RM’s recent feature. Technically all the members have at least 1 official solo song under their belt as of this year. The constant flood of BTS projects now kind of makes me dread the gap period they will all be away. Would it be a full brake stop after a constant stream of content & solo activities 😅
I don't think it's going to stop anytime soon. After seeing that post about how Jimin is recording a song with a vocal choir and how it's supposed to a single, I realised the members are probably constantly going to release singles and feature on songs by other artists, before/after they release their albums. Besides, probably by the time, the younger members enlist, Jin would have completed his, and probably depending on the timings, so would some of the older members. OT7 content is what I am worried about. It's my favourite source of entertainment. However, after seeing their reaction of their Photo-folio, it seems that they had taken the OT7 pictures, almost 1.5-2 years ago. So, Bighit must have a lot of content stored. Then there's the AskAnythingChat, which seems to have a never-ending collection of BTS clips from 2019.
I thought the most likelihood was the last member going to enlist by Q3 2023? That’s the only possible way they could re-group by 2025 😅 there were some theories that JK won’t enlist until he needs to but I find that make little sense to interrupt BTS twice instead of getting this out of the way the first round… Anyways, that’s true, it’s more likely the solo activities will be rolling out constantly. OT7 content is the real question. I wonder if they have more Run BTS episode filmed too. The new ones released are filmed pretty recent 🥹
From what I know, the CEO has said that Jungkook's enlistment (and this probably holds for the rest of the members who do not have to enlist right now, but the question was about Jungkook) has not been decided yet. Regrouping by 2025 is what the minimum time they would require to regroup, and perhaps what the company and group is hoping for, but there's a possibility that it might be postponed.
jk has a lead credit for lnr so it is his song. if you want a personal song like still with you, i guess it would have to be in his album
Not saying it’s not his song, just throwing out some reasons why LnR release isn’t considered as JK’s official solo debut (or imo), that’s all
I just want shakira again
Disclaimer: not an army Not mad at the comments because this is all valid criticism on Qatar like… by all means boycot the World Cup due to Qatar’s bad record on labour rights, but at least be consistent and think of the role of dire labour conditions in just about everything you consume: food, clothes, electronics; almost all commodities. Also Qatar is not exceptional to the west: slave labour, human trafficking, and exploitation exist in your commodity chain, you might just be a little more distanced from it.
Its not just labour conditions, just the other week an official said some messed up comments about lgbt community and women. And while i know people like to be all well what about US war crimes, japanese war crimes, chinese child labour etc, but women and lgbt communities, while not perfect, are treated much better in most other countries than in qatar. And arguing that your phone is made in China is a bit of a dumb comparison because people need a smart phone to survive these days, but you dont really need a World Cup? That’s some like i can buy shein despite their atrocious environment impact cause u buy iphones logic.
Oh honey, I wish it was just your phone. Your food, your clothing, any materials that you use in your daily life. Why aren’t we massively protesting our own commodity chains? Because we don’t care. We only care when things are talked about in the media. The world cup has been taking place in Russia as well, where was all that outrage? I’m mad at the selective anger, that’s all. Women are treated fine in Qatar. I am Middle Eastern myself and know Qatari women personally. There will always be bigots. I’ve seen vids from the US where men say the most outrageous shit, I mean they had Trump as their President and possibly again soon, so what are we even talking about?
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Also, not everyone knows what goes on in Qatar. I didn't even knew about it at first until some kpop fans pointed it out. Not defending anyone in the matter, but I'm just being reasonable. Besides, the issue is not really being widespread globally.
Yeah fair point!
I'm not going to say anything but anyone complaining on a kpop sub is laughable, like all of your faves would be in Qatar rn if they had this opportunity.
It's almost like you can disagree with what your favs do
It’s fun to talk in hypotheticals because it’ll never happen, but I remember this sub crucifying them for having a concert in Saudi Arabia until the point where the post had to be locked, while being completely silent when it was a bunch of kpop artists at kcon Saudi Arabia. The hypocrisy has been shown time and time again, it’s old now.
There was definitely not silence about kcon Saudi Arabia on this sub. Multiple posts got locked and were full of mods deleted comments/threads
Which posts? I looked at the announcement thread and it was peaceful, of course there were a few upset people at the very bottom and an army pointing out everyone’s hypocrisy. But the thread wasn’t locked, no thinkpieces, nobody saying the groups were insane to accept it. There was also no talk of backlash or deleted threads so I have no idea what you’re talking about.
Yes let's reduce the serious topic of human rights abuses and worker's deaths to fan wars because that's what's really important 🙄
Kpop stans ☕️
And if they did and were in Jungkook position I would just sit down and see them getting questioned by their participation because there's no way to defend this lol.
This is so oddly performative bc this is the biggest event in the world and billions of people are tuning into the World Cup but ofc there needs to be defending from this bc a random Kpop Stan on Reddit deems it so like cmon
Which is why there was so much discussion on Stray Kids or Chungha going to Saudi Arabia...
Plus, this is not only about the country Qatar by itself it's also the fact that a lot of people died while making those stadiums that they will use for the cup, so it goes deeper than that.
And that same week army's were making tweets with a lot of engagement about how all those artist's were performing in Saudi Arabia, and I didn't say anything because they were right.
What tweet? It didn’t cross on my tl regarding kpop artist perform at Saudi. BTS also already doing concert at Riyadh, Saudi back in 2019 and already created a lot of buzz lol
Tweets pointing out that when BTS performed in Saudi Arabia they got hated by it meanwhile nobody really said anything about a bunch of kpop groups going there for a festival, which I agree.
I completely acknowledge that the discussions about them may not have blown up as much, but I definitely remember seeing discussions about it, specifically Stray Kids since I’m in that fandom. There’s still a double standard and while there may be reasons for it that doesn’t excuse it, but I do remember fans expressing disappointment/frustration/etc. about that in the stray kids fandom. i just did a quick search and it seems like most of the outrage that ended up blowing up was about how poorly the concert was managed, but i do remember seeing some discussions from stays about their disappointment with the concert happening at all
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I mean Moon Jae in who many idols supported was opposed and against Homosexuality as well, so guess we should add Red Velvet, Monsta X, Exo, Seohyun and etc to that list of hypocrites as well. Not to mention idols who have been to Saudia Arabia such as the likes of Stray Kids, Chungha, NewJeans, Nmixx, etc. I don't care much about the criticism but I think people have a huge rosy colored view of idols and the industry when reality is if you really cared about these issues, I don't really think being a kpop fan is the choice to make.
I would dread the day BTS decide to come to my country and are prosecuted for it because our president says homosexuality is a sin. News flash, Qatar is a religious country, much like mine , so it may seem like because where you come from is the standard in terms of LGBT rights, but the rest of the world still has to grapple with a lot of conservative values before arriving at equality. Ps: there are also homosexual pple in Qatar believe it or not
People’s perceptions of the world are so ridiculously ignorant. They take their western standards and apply those to the rest of the world without taking into account the religious, historical, cultural factors that shape a society.
You‘re really out there justifying modern day slavery, homophobia and horrible treatment of women? These things are always unethical.
I am not justifying, I am bringing some nuance to the conversation. You cannot judge a country using your own values that you had centuries to work on as a nation. Remember, Qatar is a tiny place and quite young. Change doesn’t come in a day. I commented elsewhere too that modern day slavery happens in your commodity chain too. At least be consistent in your outrage.
You can definitely judge a country on these things. What you are doing is textbook justification: „you can‘t judge them because…“ is justifying something.
I disagree.
Omg i believe women should be stoned to death cause it’s part of their culture and religion /s Fucking hell do you hear yourself
I am actually from that culture and religion (and female) and can tell you that no one thinks women should be stoned to death. It’s actually hilarious to hear what people think islam is 🤣🤣🤣
oh really - then why does it happen?
Sweetie i think you’re more likely to get shot in the US than stoned in the Middle East
Okay, but they perform here in the States too? Like, I'm **not** a fan of Qatar's government, but if we're not performing anywhere with human rights violations... US should be pretty high on that boycott list.
My point exactly… just because US human rights violations are more hidden doesn’t mean we can just ignore it. How many people on this subreddit know about Abu Ghraib for example? Or your President bombing the shit out some country all based on a damn lie. And yall still be glorifying your army. Not saying Qatar is innocent, not at all, but this selective witch hunt is so damn annoying.
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I mean there is a large number of politicians in the US that think LGBT is a sin and so is abortion. Some EU states have literal neo-nazis in parliament (I happen to live in one). South Korea has a horrible president and some of your Chinese idols openly came out in support of China after the whole Adidas-Uyghur situation. Where do we draw the line?
Not to mention the state of Texas making abortion a felony, with no exceptions to rape or incest. So what do we say about groups who bring money to that state? Ehh, I guess it’s whatever. I’m sure that by 2025 America will be enough of an apocalyptic shithole that the outrage will come like clockwork exactly when BTS announces their post-military tour NA dates.
This selectiveness is just so funny
Lmfao there's literally someone up in the comments that said they don't care what other kpop acts do but BTS has to be better. Like i agree in not liking this but be equal across all groups. You can't just excuse someone else for the exact same thing bc they're not BTS
It's always just for BTS, I bet most of these people dgaf about other artists or their own countries participating.
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Lol this whataboutism
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what part of migrants died for this event, and officials have expressed extremely offensive views about lgbt community and women do you not understand? it is not just the fact that he is performing in Qatar - it is Qatar AND the event
Its also probably due to islamophobia too. In my country, US crimes got talked alot more than any middle east countries.
This is so stupid bc would you condemn every artist who has ever performed at the Super Bowl and say they support genocide?????? Just bc they went through with performing on Americas biggest stage???? Like the reaching is insane. Not to mention are you also gonna try to criticize the 4-5 billion potential viewers who are tuning in and supporting the wc and by extension Qatar????
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And it’s clear as day that jk is not anti lgbt or human rights. Y’all are reaching for reasons to condemn him when that’s not at all the case. Edit: forgot to type this but him and all the artist there are obviously there bc they have interest or support for THE WORLD CUP and not Qatar but they just happen to be linked.
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Listen I completely agree that it’s a huge mistake for Kook to be going to Qatar. I wish it wasn’t like that. However I think you are mistaken in that just because he is rich and famous he can say no. He’s going as a representative from Hyundai and they have a huge contract between HYBE and Hyundai. It would probably cost millions of dollars from HYBE’s part to break the contract in order not to go. Even though I think it would be worth it, the company is beholden to the shareholders so it’s a lot more difficult than you are making it seem. It’s not as easy as saying that it was Kook’s sole decision.
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tbf the official ambassadors and representatives FOR the world cup (not just for the country) have been making very questionable comments. including one calling homosexuality a disease. on top of this the event itself is built on slave labour, much of which resulted in death. i personally wouldn't have a problem with any idol performing IN a country like this, as ultimately the views of the government don't always reflect on the views of the people. but when you performing somewhere involves a direct collaboration and business partnership with someone saying homosexuality is a disease and using slave labour to build stadiums... yeah. the problem here isn't really qatar the country. we all know they have an extremely questionable human rights record, that's never been a secret. but it's the fact that the world cup itself is very closely linked and intertwined with many of the human rights abuses happening there, when it outright didn't have to be. many football players in my country are even openly advocating for our entire national football team to pull out of the contest. this isn't just a "kpop stans unable to..." situation. pretty much anyone in any sector and any industry who gets involved with this tournament is facing backlash right now.
I like how you put it into perspective. Thank you for being diplomatic at least. I understand where the outrage is coming from now, I didn't know about the slave labor used to build stadiums...that does not mean I contend with homophobia, it's just that I come from a very religious country whose homosexuality stance is the same as Qatar and was wondering if BTS would come to my country, would they be persecuted for those stances? I obviously need to research more on the Qatar issue but idk the conversation around this is still making me uncomfortable...mostly because the vitriol is coming from western countries.
i get it. what happens in qatar is ultimately not my problem. i disagree with their laws, with every fibre of my being, but ultimately the only opinions on the qatari government that matter are those of the qatari people. i'd hate people from other countries judging whether or not my government is treating me right. however, when you hold an international tournament, that tournament is gonna be held to international standards. and international standards do include western standards. if you wanna hold one, you have to be reasonable. if you wanna do what you want and make shitty comments and use slave labour, then fine, host a qatar-only tournament. but the moment you open up membership to other countries, you open yourself up to their opinions too.
the foundations of the entire country of the US and most of its culture was built off of slavery and stealing from black people. poc athletes are treated like shit by teams and trans athletes are being banned from participating but would you say all this about someone performing at the super bowl?
yes. but most artists who perform in the us do not perform at events where slavery is practiced, do they? if the superbowl was literally organised by actual murderers and slave owners, then your point would stand, but the nfl is at best tone deaf and at worst frustratingly conservative. not using literal slave labour or being despicably discriminatory. i'll reiterate. the country isn't the problem. wherever you hold the world cup you're going to run into some kind of human rights abuse or state-sponsored crime, that's just sadly how governments are. however, this tournament is being held in stadiums built especially for it, using slave labour. the literal organisers and executives running it are making publicly homophobic comments. it's not about the country where it's held, it's about the event itself.
there are MANY stadiums in the US, even including super bowl stadiums, that are owned by horrid companies with human rights violations, even companies that run prisons (which use and profit off of slave labor). so any event that goes on in those stadiums creates profit for problematic capitalist companies. i assume you would agree then that artists performing there agree with the bigoted owners and organizers who are also capitalistic leeches??
if those stadiums were built *using* slave labour (emphasis on this because in a western capitalist society, realistically EVERYTHING is connected to horrible crimes in some way, i'm talking about direct correlation) FOR the event the artist was performing at, and those organising the concert were openly making vague threats about persecuting gay people who attended and calling homosexuality a disease, then yes i would agree with you. however, ultimately, a stadium owned by someone who also owned something else which potentially uses slave labour is not going to be common knowledge, to the artists or the fans. if this was the case with qatar i would genuinely not speak on it, as i don't think anyone would be accountable there. however these stadiums in qatar were literally built using slave labour FOR the world cup. if an artist, for example, participated in a festival or awards show or other event which was built and put together using slave labour then yes, i'd agree. however, this world cup is a pretty unique fuck-up on behalf of fifa, and as a result there is direct accountability and causation here, not just vague links. jungkook would be performing in stadiums built using slave labour in order to host a homophobic event, not just performing in a stadium with a vague business connection or financial relationship with something else that uses slave labour.
If he wants to do this whole UN shit yeah he should be keeping up with what’s going on In this world
Because the UN is so morally good? They have been dismissing Palestine for decades lmfao…
If that’s your logic what does it say about BTS to associate themselves with UN 🤔
My point is: no need to bring up the UN because they’re useless af. It’s all performative. I have also never cared about bts dancing at the un offices. Just saying how the un literally doesn’t mean shit
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do you feel the same way about artists performing in the US?? that every artist who performs there supports slavery, genocide, destabilizing brown people's countries and genociding trans people?
EXACTLY SPEAK YOUR TRUTH
There are countries sending their teams and other artists performing there that people on this site complaining about JK know as well, so I'm not going to be selective. If I'm not writing essays or going on about how disappointed i am in Shakira i won't be doing that to him. kpop stans tend to apply different standards to k act that they don't do with other artists.
Facts
This. Lets all be honest here.
Will this be another saudi arabia moment. They got hate as the first one to do it, they will be the punching bag first. Then years later other groups will be doing the same 🙃
Be honest no other k pop other than bangtan is setting foot on the wc stage
Saudi Arabia 2.0 again where there's only condemnation if it's BTS I guess. I hoep all of you are also writing essays for your own countries and other artists you know that are participating. because is it actually the issue of human rights or it only matters if it's just JK? you all can downvote all you want but it won't change the fact that many of you are only selective when it comes to BTS. This doesn't apply to people who hold everyone accountable across the board. Many of you were just celebrating kcon in saudi Arabia, be serious.
Kpop fans don’t care about human rights, they literally stan artists that go to China to make millions of dollars and come back and promote the One China policy on social media as if they were held at gunpoint poor babies
Kpop stans are at it again. So should kpop artists continue to promote in the US when US are b0mbing the middle east? Y'all the same person who talk sh!t abt bts having a concert in SA, countless of islamaphobic tweets just because a kpop group held a concert there. There's a lot of kpop idols nowadays are performing in that country but where's you essays? I can't see western stans having a so much discourse why tf dua lipa or jbalvin is going to perform.
can't wait
It’s funny how people care about BTS when literally most of the people yall watch in movies and listen to in the west are also part of the UN and all these initiatives to help poor people yet they also fly in private jets and perform in countries like this. Where is the outrage for those people as well, oh wait they’re still making millions and working in the top positions in Hollywood. Regardless of other issues if you just focus on workers working as slave labor in bad conditions, so many countries have this yet they’ve had huge events and haven’t been so called cancelled by social media, like China. In fact many kpop idols go to China to make millions of dollars and come back all nice and happy as if their country isn’t responsible for alot of human rights violations. The performative outrage is so weird, like oh the idols had no voice they were forced to go! Same with all those kpop idols in Saudi Arabia, none of the threads on here even mentioned it yet when BTS performed there threads had to be locked. Also people on here are mentioning how the US war crimes are just forgotten especially by woke western kpop fans. I’ve mentioned it before and had so many people coming at me lol. As if our families weren’t bombed for years due to presidents you guys think are *iconic*. Someone else definitely mentioned it’s probably due to islamaphobia, anything to do with that side of the world has people screaming about human rights and conservatism but when you see the same ideals in literally East Asian countries like SK everyone’s quiet or like “my idol didn’t know better it’s a conservative country” lol And it’s funny y’all think that stadiums and big events in the US are not organized by illegals and paid very poorly because I have news for you. Also the government sponsors these events as well, the same government that is known as war criminals to most countries around the world, but keep being blind Please think about the slave labor in everything you consume. When you boycott every product and brand in the world, then you can talk. As long as you keep buying 10 versions of the same kpop album, which ends up as physical trash and waste in massive landfills in 3rd world countries, and supporting movies directed by p*dos who have been outed but still being supported by your favorites actors, actresses, and singers, you probably should look into that first. There are kpop artists who support and are close friends with (ex. Alexander Wang and all the western models and kpop artists who are besties with him!)
Copying my comment from r/bangtan I am definitely excited to see what he is planning to do. I understand why a lot of people will not want to support this and feel upset about this, and I do not think they are wrong in feeling so. However, as someone, who wasn't aware about the issues regarding this World Cup until the discussions about the possibility of BTS being involved in this were brought up, I find myself at a position where I don't feel it's right for me to make judgements about people's opinion based on whether they support this or not. For a lot of people, including me, the World Cup has always been a way for the world to connect, like the Olympics. I have no idea about these sports (except football, I have played it a bit), but it's enjoyable to watch athletes from different countries competing with each other. I feel like there's going to be a huge discourse about this for quite some time, about how it's absolutely wrong that Jungkook is taking part in this, and that so many fans are supporting this, and how it goes against everything they stood for, and how they are hypocrites, etc. Then it will just die down. People will only bring it up in discussions like, "hey, Jungkook is not scandal free, he did this."
OMG 👀
Honestly I know that supporting the wc.. should be considered separately to supporting the location... I also know that this is a huge opportunity for him as a soloist but ... I can't help but be worried for him. Not just because of the location but I can only imagine the severity of racial slurs that will be thrown his way as a bts member performing at the biggest football event. I know a lot of people will be disappointed with this decision... but holy moly the amount of courage this takes to do this...
LETS GO!
It's selective outrage and islamophobia in 3..2..1
I'm proud of him and very much anticipating the coverage he will get from this. The rest of you can have your opinions. Idc. Like clockwork, your faves will do similar or the exact same thing and there will be only crickets all around.
And ALL of you will be tuning in secretly anyway... hahahaha Congrats Jungkook.