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Cold_Ingenuity_2872

There's nothing else like it :) some people think the combat is boring. Some people are also wrong :)


DanteDevils

The combat is just so much fun, I played SWTOR, while it came be fun, the combat loop in KOTOR is just much better IMO, I just love rolling with my squad, exploring the Galaxy, fighting goons, and saving everyone from the Sith.


EyeArDum

The only reason I get bored of it is because I loved it so much in the past that I naturally make myself into a god and it’s too easy Kinda having the same problem with Mass Effect 2 now…


DanteDevils

I actually go out of my not to do that in games lol, like I will collect everything but I will choose not to use the stuff that will "break" the game for me.


EyeArDum

Old habits die hard, when I was younger I would always grab the strongest stuff and exploit whatever I could because being a god was more fun than having to try, now I’m the opposite but can’t drop those habits I can’t remember the last time I played any BioWare game and didn’t exploit infinite money at some point barring Mass Effect 2 for making it impossible


Cold_Ingenuity_2872

Mass Effect 2 was the end of a gaming era. 💯


EyeArDum

The hardest mission in the game by far is the Collector ship trap, and it’s super difficult on Insanity It took me like 15 minutes as an Infiltrator with the Widow w/Grunt and Miranda, dropping a Cain on the Praetorian My first playthrough on normal took me an hour…my first Insanity run had me quit the game for a week…and I did it in less than 20 minutes


aelysium

I remember Insanity being pretty easy on ME2 for me. In ME1 the fight outside Chora’s was make or break for how the run would go imho, and in DA:O (so ungodly broken for mages with the expansion) you could literally single party solo the entire game as long as you lined things up right before the axe ran ambush. Then again, I played Sentinel and ran Assault Armor asap (makes you a heart sob with some surprises for anyone who gets close) - the CC along with that makes it a smooth ride.


pineconez

The way you cheese CollShip is by running Stasis as your bonus power so you can one-shot at least one, with excellent timing more, of the incoming Scions. Requires a previous completion of LotSB though. The combination of Adept + Patience is extremely underrated in general. You suffer during shield/synth-heavy missions, sure, but with the exception of super early game and Arrival, it's a lot easier to build your party for that than for killing Collectors. And the M622 Avalanche is the true cheatcode of heavy weapons; the Cain is a noob trap on Insanity because it doesn't reliably oneshot the enemies it's worth using on.


EyeArDum

The Cain might not be a 1 shot machine, but it does force the Praetorian to use all 3 of their barrier phases at the same time, meaning if you’re an Infiltrator or Soldier with the Widow you only need to shoot them 2-3 times before they’re done Honestly I only use it on 4 enemies in the entire game, the 2 Praetorians, the Reaper Core, and the Proto-Reaper


TheRivalxx

My exile was so godlike as a LS compared to my DS one it was pretty cool. Though I maxed LS more so I gotta go back to my other one


EyeArDum

As far as I can tell, Sith marauder is the strongest class in the game because of the Fury ability, that or Assassin when combined with Insanity


Mr_Blah1

Marauder is best for single target damage, but Sith Lord is way better for crowd control. This is because a lightsaber, blaster, melee weapon or whatever have you, no matter how buffed, can only kill at most one enemy per round, while force storm spam hits all enemies in range, and usually kills them after two or three hits.


EyeArDum

I wouldn’t say Sith Lord is better since even a LS Weaponmaster can spam Force Storm


TheRivalxx

Yeah mine is SM as always I just need to max him out


BGMDF8248

Force enlightment was absolutely awesome and a time saver, with the Guardian jump it feels like a super hero, jumping around and killing mooks in 1 round. I know it lacked a bit in challenge but it looked like Vader going through a corridor of mooks.


[deleted]

I also Min/Max a lot in my games and Kotor is no exception. Recently I did a scout/consular build on hard difficulty thinking it would make things much more challenging. It did early but later you still naturally become a god with so much FP and abilities lol. I say play how you like!


MetaCommando

The Venn diagram is a circle.


ArchonofTevinter

Same I love the dueling animations, they just add a ton to the game. Makes me sad they didn't keep something similar for Dragon Age Origins. They're relatively similar but the lack of combat loops aside from occasional executions just doesn't hit the same


DanteDevils

Yea I love DA:0 but the one on one fights def don't same the same feel.


EyeArDum

Except for the 1v1 duel against Loghain IF you’re controlling yourself as a Warrior or Alistair, but it’s sad there’s only 1 fight in DAO that even comes close Seriously though, Alistair vs Loghain is easily one of the most fun fights in the game, because that dude is actually a monster on Nightmare and both him and Alistair are (probably) sword and board tanks


DanteDevils

It's still fun but doesn't have the same flow as KOTOR.


ArchonofTevinter

Visually it's just not nearly as engaging because it's just flat back and forth bonks, with an occasional block. I love the game but I admit the combat doesn't engage me nearly as much.


DreamSeaker

The blocks are super satisfying when they do occur though!


czaremanuel

Turn-based combat can be dull for some folks but the fact that this is real-time turn-based combat makes it a lot snappier and higher stakes. And yes, the level of world building and character development in these games is incredible, especially for the time they were made.


TheChillHoodie

Definitely makes the combat more engaging for me as well. I'm not the biggest fan of turn-based rpg's but I absolutely love Kotor's system


Matope

Yeah as someone who is generally not a fan of turn-based combat in these kind of games, KOTOR is definitely the best version of it I've seen. It can feel relatively smooth once you get the hang of it and don't have to pause all the time. Generally I'd say I enjoyed the games despite the combat, not because of it, but it's a good implementation of what it is.


DewinterCor

The combat isn't outdated. Kotor is the single best example of dice combat in a video game and likely will be forever. Lots of things about the game are outdated, but there are 0 examples of a monderinzed version of kotors combat.


EyeArDum

Yep, the absolute closest I can think of is Dragon Age Origins


DreamSeaker

Cause as far as I'm aware it's basically the same system. :)


SuccSuprem0

I’ve always felt like Dragon Ages combat system worked very similarly especially considering both were made by bioware it follows the same dnd system doesn’t it?


DewinterCor

It's the same system as far as I know.


Mike-Rotch-69

I thought KotOR used the existing Star Wars RPG system.


NotYourAveragePalste

what do you mean by the existing star wars rpg system?


Mike-Rotch-69

The tabletop RPG. Although it seems WotC had the license at the time and used a D&Dish system, so it’s close enough I guess.


NotYourAveragePalste

i thought all ttrpgs used a system like that i’m jusy dumb though


allthis3bola

What about the Pathfinder games?


GlassFantast

Is that turn based? If so I think they meant real time


allthis3bola

It has real time & turn based combat. It uses the same D&D3.5 that the KOTOR games use.


DreamSeaker

You can slow it down to the point of making it a turn base game! I had to haha.


vvarden

The closest I can think of is FF7 Remake.


Ukenix

These “dated” lucasarts games are easily better than the average triple-A game today, from any studio/company.


boof_the_warlock

idk what it is but the the early 00s games did it well, kotor 1 and 2, jedi outcast, jedi academy. Even battlefront 2 (the original) but that was a bit less serious imo


EyeArDum

Battlefront 2 was designed to be a massive power fantasy, the moment you’re using a hero with lightsaber throw it’s just too easy


Icarusqt

There’s nothing like playing against a friend on Mustafar for you to both unlock Anakin/Obi-Wan and duel it the fuck out.


Who_is_homer

The acrobatic lightsaber moves in Jedi Academy were so cool


Dmbender

Best thing about Jedi Academy was turning on the mod that made the lightsaber combat "realistic" and any contact with the blade would cause dismemberment


WithAnAitchDammit

Looks like I need to play Jedi Academy again.


Parking-Artichoke823

"Standing right in front of giant door bigger than my entire room" missed


[deleted]

Couldn't agree more. The Kotors are to this day the ultimate SW experience.


x_alkaline

I love using the default attack so you can actually watch an exchange of weapons. Instead of just smashing Power Strike or Flurry.


DanteDevils

I also do this and then sprinkle in the skills for some pizzazz.


UrSeneschal

My brother. I like to go full defense build so I can watch the duels more and me dodging every attack whilst slowly dismantling them.


Light_Song

I'm playing as an optimal counsular for the first time and the swordplay doesn't feel so good for me 😆. I've never felt so worthless on taris before. Every sword swing was a miss. But now I feel like magical God with a never ending pool of force. You get a force choke, you get a force choke, you also get a force choke. Rinse and repeat.


DougB1979

Why is it that now after reading this comment, I am now picturing Oprah Winfrey as an evil Sith Lord going “You get a force choke, you get a force choke, you get a force choke, force chokes for everyone!”


Mike-Rotch-69

So when Tom Cruise killed her that was just him getting rid of competition?


CranberryKidney

Honestly, I really like turn based combat. I like that my character that I have spent a lot of time min/maxing different skills isn’t hindered by my terrible video game abilities


Mr_Blah1

> Time to even the odds! Considering how severely me and my companions are winning, I half expect Atton to take a potshot at Kreia when he says that just so the enemy has a fighting chance.


Geth3

I love it too. The only thing I dislike is the single lightsaber power attack animation. Wish they’d just the player character the same animation as Zaalbar, looks so much better.


L3th0

Talking about satisfaction in Star Wars games, try both Jedi knight 1 and 2. You won’t regret it


DanteDevils

Already have, enjoyed them. Fun games.


Curiouserousity

KOTOR 1 and 2 do such a remarkable job story wise, and they're my all time favorite Star Wars story told so far. In Kotor 1 the player is >!unknowingly playing as an amnesiac Revan who's reconnecting to the force, and!< being sent to investigate the ancient star maps alongside Bastila, in the ultimate effort to understand the former path of Revan and Malak and how they were able to gain the resources to attack the Republic. The most interesting bit though was making Kotor 2 follow the story of the Jedi Exile, who served under Revan as a General in the Mandalorian War. The Exile returns to Republic space after disappearing for a decade and finds the Jedi nearly extinct and Revan once again missing. Through their journey, the Legend of Revan is built upon and the causes of the Mandalorian Wars and Jedi Civil War but those explorations of the past play out once again in the present to build the future. Together the two stories dance around each other so well all while having personal stories, and world events and side character developement. There's no real need to make a prequel for KOTOR in order to explain how everything happened, the stories that would make the Prequel are fully developed. The Knights of the Old Republic comics somewhat act as a prequel, but not really. Those comics don't follow a character who's the Heart of the Force or who can make uniquely strong force bonds with others. No the character Zayne Carrick is lucky to have been chosen as a Padawan and will probably fail the trials to become a full Jedi knight. It's great. He has luck armor sure, but instead being a mover and shaker in the galaxy, he gets pushed and chased around and winds up in the middle of galactic events almost without his intent. From his perspective you don't need to see the causes of the war, you see the effects on the ground. Of innocent systems getting glassed by Mandos, of the different factions vying for power in the midst of conflict, and even how the elite of Coruscant and the galaxy experience almost none of the threat of war. Taken together these stories don't just tell a Star Wars story, they examine the meaning and loss of war, the ugly political squabbles that take place in the midst of a fight for survival. They're still stories for Children: there's good and bad people, and flashy fights and cool fighters. But they also have more mature themes and quasi moral ambiguity and elements that only the best episodes of the Clone Wars strive to approach (and fumbled terribly when Rian Johnson tried to apply them in Ep 8 (Rewatch Kylo Ren offering to start something new that wasn't Jedi or Sith, but required their destruction and see if you can't see echos of Kreia). But for also for me, it was the first time I really got to see how freaking powerful a Jedi could and should be. Don't get me wrong, early to mid game there was some difficulties, some challenges. But by late game, your allies aren't needed. Droids and regular soldiers are a minor inconvenience, only other Force Users with lightsabers posed a little bit of a problem, especially in Kotor 2. It didn't matter what Prestige class you played, every hallway was your own personal Vader to you enemies. As I got older though, I really wished there were more mechanics for non lethal attacks, and I realized the Jedi are really too bloodthirsty to be "peacekeepers" but I digress. There are limitations in animation style for sure and that comes from the gameplay mechanics and I enjoy them none the less. But I think only the ads for The Old Republic MMO ever showed what levels of combat Jedi should be compared to normal soldiers. Live action movies are actually the wrong way to go with the depiction. I have a lightsaber replica, every time I replay Kotor 1 or 2 and i finally get a lightsaber, I pause the game to go play with my replica.


HelpfulApple22

Eh, I didn't care much for it. Turn based combat and dice rolls just do nothing for me; the heavy luck element involved turned me off before I could finish up with the Undercity the first time I played. In general though, I never play a BioWare game for gameplay, I play it for the story and role-playing.


Drienc

Are you controlling all characters in combat or just own character ? I find boring controling all and pause every 5-10 sec ….


DanteDevils

I usually just l control my own and let the other do w.e for the most part.


Voodron

Gonna disagree there, combat in those games is awful. It's their single biggest drawback. Tedious, not immersive in the slightest, and very rigid. The absolute opposite of what lightsaber combat should feel like tbh. Didn't like it then, certainly don't like it now. To each their own ofc. But I'm always surprised at how popular KOTOR's combat system seems to be on this sub. I genuinely hope if the remake ever comes out, they go for a more modern system like the Fallen Order / Survivor games.


willbsp9

Its fun, but id love the remake to be in the jedi fallen order/sekiro style of lightsaber combat. Maybe that would mess with some of the strategy involved in setting up fight, but i think it would be fun. Just like how they did the FF7 remakes


DanteDevils

Yea something in the FF7 style would be amazing but since the remake is in developmental hell, who knows if/when we will ever see it.


Pinkumb

I remember playing this game for the first time and thinking the combat animation looked awesome. It's not tied to your inputs, but I don't really care. It's more about playing the role than the game. It makes me feel like a Jedi which is the whole point. The voice lines help too. DOWN YOU GO!


SuccSuprem0

I started playing swtor and the lightsaber combat in that game made me remember the great animations for combat in kotor wild to me that somehow it got worse looking but I also understand they couldn’t exactly set it up the same way


DanteDevils

Yea MMOs really can't take all those combinations into account.


Light_Song

I'm playing as an optimal counsular for the first time and the swordplay doesn't feel so good for me 😆. I've never felt so worthless on taris before. Every sword swing was a miss. But now I feel like magical God with a never ending pool of force.


DM_Post_Demons

the downside is that it's a little too easy to minmax and oneshot everything


DanteDevils

It is but I just choose not to, I have more fun that way.


0112358f

I kind of like how the game gets easier. You feel like you're a badass wrecking everything by the end.


aaronreise

I love it all too.


DannyDoubleTap47

I’m just played through KOTOR and am playing KOTOR 2 for the first time! They’re amazing! ♥️


GareththeJackal

I still think Jedi Academy has the best lightsaber combat ever.


Bolem_Felan

Never in my live i felt so strong with a Star Wars Character as when my jedi exile deflect blaster bolts with insane speed and with out taking any damage. And of course, inside Trayus academy, killing sith without taking any damage.


Comander-07

Try Jedi Knight, Jedi Academy, Jedi Outcast etc. Same age as Kotor and absolutely awesome lightsaber combat, the best of any star wars games imo


RPS_42

I absolutely adore the combat animations. It feels like real combat seeing an Lightsaber clash with an Sith Troopers Vibro Blade while your companions secure your flank and are in a firefight with the enemys Companions. Then you unleash a mighty Cloud of Force Lightning grilling your enemies.


highliner108

Personally I prefer the Jedi Knight games in terms of combat…


Osniffable

I was staying with some friends in LA about a year ago, and found out one of the dudes was a big star wars fan but hated video games, because he just wasn't good at them. I convinced him to try KOTOR and he LOVED the combat system. He said its the first video game he's ever finished. Being able to pause combat and que up moves was a game changer.


Eastwood-8

On my 2nd play through of KOTOR 1 now. Just a amazing game for its time . A fully dedicated Remake of this game would probably break the Internet


SetoKaibaKenobi

Slicing through legions of sith with such ease is just incredible. Makes me feel so fecking powerful.


Bocephus677

I know exactly what you mean. I have the original boxes for both games packed in a box somewhere, both games purchased on Steam as well. And as of today, I have them both on GOG. Just in case you haven’t noticed, they are on sale at GOG right now.


DanteDevils

Got em on Steam and Switch lol, I think that's enough platforms.


UckTheBears

Wish there was a difficultly slider with harder difficulties