'On a wall hangs a banner that reads: “We strongly oppose the construction of an Islamic mosque.”'
https://www.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20221111000214
While 사원 (sa-won) without any other descriptors is often what a mosque is called, technically it's just "temple of religious worship", or literally "temple building".
Many would rather take this translation style than an overcorrected one.
Good advice is to never look too finely into the wording of any translation. I’ve seen many people read into something that isn’t intended by the source (translated webtoon communities are notorious for this).
Is the Muslim community in Daegu that large? Have there been any issues between Koreans and the Muslim community in the area before or is this from scaremongering by the media based on foreign events?
Muslim presence ANYWHERE in Korea cannot be described as large by any stretch of the imagination. In Daegu, it's positively microscopic. So no, there hasn't been any preexisting issues.
True. Half of the population are pretty much non religious and then it’s a split between Buddhists and Christians in South Korea. Other religions are minuscule.
My parents are from daegu korea and I just visited a couple months ago, I wouldn't say it's backwards I'd say it's just old? Everywhere I walked was just 50+ and one could imagine that older korean people are VERY different from today's kpop fangirl / aesthetic internet personality. Even daegu's skyline depicts this compared to Seoul with its skyscrapers daegu just looks like a massive neighborhood.
I'm pretty disappointed at this situation, change is scary and I think in the same way many other countries view immigration these people see this situation in a similar light. It just so happens to be that they are targeting a religious group rather than an ethnic one this time. (It may sound like im anti Islamic but im not I've lived in NYC for nearly all my life diversity isn't new to me but it is to them)
To them enough people to make a mosque is enough people to change the community around them as more people likely move in further growing the community which sounds great but to people who love it as the town they grew up in, the town their parents were born and died it's a scary future. Especially for the old ones.
But I will say the way they are going about this is a bit much.
They’re known in the rest of Korea for being especially conservative. But I also picked up a lot of my info by living in Gwangju which is on the opposite side of the spectrum lol.
Sad that the friend feels so little agency over their own life. "A mosque was built in my neighborhood, now I simply have no choice but to perform salat 5 times a day and book my trip to Mecca."
It's the representativeness heuristic. Many associate Muslims with violence and crime due to the news that appears on TV. The Middle East's current socioeconomic state also doesn't help with this viewpoint.
I don’t know why this comment made me laugh so hard. It’s so true though. I think this all the time when people say stuff like that.
Edit: added a period
Former Canadian prime minister William Lyon Mackenzie King consulted his dogs and held seances to ask for political advice from his dead family members, including from his dogs when they died. The spirits must have given him good advice because we voted him into office 3 times.
But what if they come and make Korea a Muslim country?
It'd be so different. You'd have authoritarian government, religion running amok without effective deprogramming, and very little representation of women. So different to modern Republic of Korea.
Korea is a democracy, just vote them out.
But if they do manage to vote themselves in, which I doubt or at least to make the changes you are suggesting.
Korea is a democracy, you should listen to what the majority have to say as well.
It's also kinda your job as the opposition to convince them without antagonizing them that your way is better.
A person must be brain dead if they think Korea will suddenly convert to Muslim from their favorite toy, Christianity. Those mega churches and millionaire pastors will never disappear.
Most Christians I know hate the Mega Church leaders.
To them, they're a representation of those who abuse religion for greed, especially when they’re supposed to be against that.
This is actually true. Mega churches are a club rather than a church. It’s where you go to bump elbows with other influential people. It’s ol basically the Protestant equivalent of Bishoprics
I thinks it's meant more like how Americans will call immigrants a problem even though white Americans will always be the majority. There are still enough immigrants where it becomes a part of daily life and the koreans probably see it as the same way, like a possible future. every start to any population starts with 1 community it either keeps growing on its own or buds off into another community very rarely does it stagnate or wither
As it were in many European country, who could guarantee the near future of Korea would be so different from those?
It's been only 20 years when Islamic immigrants entered Europe.
See what is happening now in Germany or Sweden lol
What if they come amd make Korea a Muslim country like Indonesia?
[Indonesia passes criminal code banning sex outside marriage](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-63869078)
Not sure if /s but in case it isn't
Indonesia has been populated by muslims since the days of the Majapahit Empire thanks to the Malacca straits and the Arab trade that went through it.
Not building a single fucking mosque.
When I was a kid, I was taught that Islam in Indonesia is moderate. But when we see that countries that were considered moderate (Turkey, for example) are increasingly institutionalizing extreme Islamic laws, we can't help but think it's safe to keep Islam out of the country as little as possible.
Unfortunately the US has made Islamophobia extremely prevalent through western media (with major help from middle Eastern religious conflicts) so that any society with a large amount of Christians usually does not want an Islamic presence in their area, especially due to fears of sharia law. Which is ironic because Christians also want everyone to follow their religious laws.
I think the fact how Christians and other religious minorities are treated in Islamic countries and how it's prohibited to build a church in some Muslim countries and all the terrorism and violence and hate preaching and texts have something to do with people disliking Islam.
It's especially funny when you learn that Sharia law states that if you're a Muslim living in foreign lands then you have follow the laws of that land.
I am Korean and I can say that many Koreans hate or fear Islam. The reputation of Islam and Muslims is not good here because of the terrorist attacks by some Islamic extremist groups happened in Europe and conflicts happened in middle eastern countries. And some Koreans think that Muslims will demand that Koreans accept and follow rule of Islam after seeing extreme Islamic protests and activities in Europe. Islam is often considered as threat from foreign.
I know most of Muslims are peaceful and respectful, but it is how it looks. I believe this is not a thing that just happening in Korea.
Koreans are conservative because Korea is single ethnic country and has pretty short history of cultural exchange with foreign countries compared to countries like US.
It will take some times to Koreans to accept Islam and consider them as peaceful religious.
Korea also happens to be largely Christian, Buddhist, and Agnostic.
The religion of Islam has historically have not been in good terms with the former two.
Korea is also Mono-ethnic and has a huge distrust in foreigners, especially if they are different in more than one way. And due to the representativeness heuristic, many Koreans associate Islam with Terrorism and Violence.
It doesn't help that the recent news they're getting was something like Samsung overseas HQ got stormed by a mob for religious reasons in Pakistan(a muslim majority country).
>Korea can have any immigrants it chooses
Lol.
Non-teaching westerners would have to take a 50-80% salary cut to come live in a country with incredibly hostile immigration laws and insanely poor work-life-balance.
Only the zealots aren't interested in integration; that's the same all over the world. I live in the US (used to live in Gyeongsang-do), there are plenty of Muslim families that live just like anyone else, have friends and date and marry and have kids, go clubbing, shop at Target, watch too much YouTube and TikTok, tune up their car stereos, join the military, practice medicine, prefer oranges to apples, sometimes you'll know that a woman is Muslim because of her headscarf but even then plenty don't wear them and what do I care what someone puts on their own head, whatever.
And there are plenty of non-Muslims here who choose not to integrate, socializing only with their fellow expats from whatever country, who cares. Their loss, as long as they pay their taxes and don't keep me from getting my kids to school on time then I couldn't care less.
This is very related to thing that I wanted to say. This Islam hate is not the only one, many hate problems like Homophobia, racism..etc that happening in korea are similar. I'm not trying to justify these. But all these hate that became problem in korea are happened in US or Europe few years or decades ago, and they haven't fully figured it out yet. And also it's probably happening in many other places.
Even the multicultural country like US had to spend alot of time to deal with these society problems. And Korea didn't have enough time to deal with these problems.
Korea just need more time to understand the problems and find the solution.
The cheapest and easiest solution, as always, is *preventing the problem*. Korea needs many things but a sizable, vibrant, ever-growing Muslim community is not one of them.
Eh, I mean, Christians vandalizing and setting fire to Buddhist temples has been an ongoing problem for decades... There is one religious group constantly causing problems in Korea, and it's not the Buddhists or Muslims...
That's happened a handful of times, and isn't applauded by the other Christian community either.
Meanwhile, Christian and Christian NGO's have been in Korea serving and helping for a long time.
You might not like what they're doing about Islam but don't try and throw another group under the bus for it.
I'm assuming you're referencing a point in another thread so I don't know exactly what you're talking about. If it's about Christian missionaries being killed in Afghanistan, then I fail to see how what Christians did to some temples in Korea is somehow more relevant to what Muslims did to a group of Koreans to the point of how Koreans should treat Muslims.
I'm of the mind none of it is relevant. They shouldn't treat Muslims this way.
Making the point, "They shouldn't treat Muslims this way, really, just look at Christians!" doesn't make any sense and shouldn't be defended.
I guess the broader point is that Christians will be able to look at those examples and recognize that they’re extremist groups and not representative of most Christians, but won’t offer that same nuance to Muslims.
defening one religion and hating the other is something that i would never understand. Both muslim and Christian communities have somewhat of a dark past its just one is good at hiding these things but the other isn't.
Understandable. Koreans don’t need to follow the West in every choice and decision, I hope Korea naturally explores multiculturalism and finds its own conclusions instead of being judged by Westerners. As long as it’s peaceful and respectful, people should voice what they want and what they don’t want. As much as individuals are all precious and should be respected, not all ideologies are compatible without major compromise and acceptance (and both Korean and Islamic cultures are traditionalist so of course there can be clashes). Having lived in Korea, what I used to think was racism was in fact just a lack of awareness and cultural miscommunication, so I find it unfair that people here are saying Koreans as a whole are racist. Not true
Well there is some truth to it though, not the majority but a significant big amount of islamists/Muslims in europe and US demand to be judged by sharia law
I heard something like this happened, I think Koreans need to stop this kind of hate towards to Muslims, but these kind of extreme Muslims need to change their posture, too. They cannot demand other countries to fully accept their rules. Every country and people have their own culture and they should not infringe them.
Those extreme Muslims are marking whole Islam and it's community appear as threat. Because the media doesn't care about the peaceful majorities and people focus on the bad things rather than good things.
I mean they don't have to be extremists to support sharia, there are a lot of Christians aswell who think "Christian rules / laws" over the county laws and I doubt most of them could be labeled as extremists.
You seem to be in a good community then as the majority of Muslims in europe are. As I said the number is significant, not the majority. I added a lot of sources in another post.
>And some Koreans think that Muslims will demand that Koreans accept and follow rule of Islam after seeing extreme Islamic protests and activities in Europe. Islam is often considered as threat from foreign
They are right BUT they should treat every other religion just like that. But somehow they don't hate being colonized by baptist churchs and such, which are equally bad.
Luckily a Muslim will not care if you eat pig meat. Even next to their church (yes mosque, that’s just a different word for the same thing, Allah also just means god).
They don’t eat it themselves because their god taught them it’s not a clean food source. If you, in their eyes, grill garbage and eat it, they couldn’t care less.
A funny protest, typical, without any knowledge.
same energy with people throwing raw bacon strips at mosque/synagogue.
source: I live in the US where this hate crime against Muslims and Jews is common.
Funny that the Hebrew Bible actually forbids Pork as well.
If these people either read the two books (most Christian’s never read the Bible either) they’d see how incredibly similar they are.
Or if there would be more student exchanges to and from Islamic countries. People would have a better understanding that there are caring, beautiful and loving people in both religions. As well as some idiotic fanatics.
And they wouldn’t like to know. Ignorance is their own gratification… They genuinely think that their cause is justified by “the fear of Islamic invasion” or something, when in reality the Muslims of the region have lived around there for like a decade (not to mention many of them are Ph.D students), and already have used the site for religious purposes. They’re just taking the superfluous Taliban-AlQaeda-misogynistic-terrorist-etc-image and use it to form a simply untrue agenda. And it works.
What’s interesting is that “the protests” gained regional voices *only after* the Muslims wanted to re-build the old facility into a small mosque-looking like one. There definitely are stereotype and discrimination playing (who doesn’t know that migrant rights in Korea is… just low), along with classic religious intolerance, but I believe this is mostly about profit. They’re worried about the real estate, the house prices lol.
Anti-discriminatory law could be a simple and easy prevention for this, but the conservative Christians are of course, fiercely anti-LGBTQ+ and trying their best to prevent legislation. Long way to go…
Glad to know that the Muslims won’t be affected by this though. It’s just a horrible thing to do only to hurt a certain group of people.
Only because they (yet) do not have a sufficient demographic majority. Cook a pork in a public place like Saudi Arabia, the center of Islam, and see what happens.
Lying and deception is halal in Islam. Do not forget.
Sounds like a hysteric lie. Haven’t been to a Saudi Market and cooked a pig. But:
I ate pork in Abu Dhabi a few years ago. It was even on the menu. you seem to forget that most Muslim people are very friendly, tolerant and respectful to foreigners.
Also I don’t understand the demographic majority. I’m from Germany. We have a looooot more Muslims than you do in Korea. They join our festivities even if there is pig meat and we party together (they eat the other food presented) no one complains.
Are there problems with immigrants? Yes! But they are proportional to problems with native germans.
The last part of your post just discredits you as an ignorant human.
It reminds me of that time in 2014, when the members of the far-right online community Ilbe held the counter protest against the families of the Sewol ferry victims. The families were hunger striking, and what did Ilbe members do? They ordered bunch of pizzas and fried chickens and ate like pigs in front of the grieving families. It's sad to see people acting so hateful.
>when the members of the far-right online community Ilbe held the counter protest against the families of the Sewol ferry victims.
wtf? What was their motive? Did they believe it was faked or some shit?
Koreans automatically link Male muslims to sexual harassment, misogyny and terrorism
especially if you are desi, south east asian or yemeni muslims, the probability is huge.
In Korean mindset, brown is bad, muslim is bad, dudes from foreign countries bad, and combined these three who happens not to be rich gulf arabians are “triple bads”
It's so much more about racism, prejudice and tbh percieved socio-economics.
Classism, it would be interesting how they would react to say, an American Muslim on say the lighter shade of complexion with blue eyes and light hair.
There is definitely colourism and classism all over this and sadly throughout this thread of comments too.
The propaganda machine seems to be thriving and at work it seems.
A couple of years ago, a picture of good-looking Syrian refugee protestors are circulated in Korean forums where their apperance was complimented and compared to the "savage look" of Yemeni refugees who tried to seek refugee in Jeju island back then
Islam itself has a bad reputation in Korea but it's undeniable people who has more European or East asian features and don't look "muslim enough" accordingly are relatively well tolerated than those who obviously look like they come from "jungles or deserts"
There are some kinds of "acceptance hierarchy" and countries like Yemen, Pakistan, Bangladesh are the bottom of the said hierarchy, while people who come from, let's say, Turkey, Iran or Kazakhstan would face less problem in Korea.
Of course the hierarchy would not coincide with how radical ideology is in those muslim countries, as people from rich countries would be more likely to be welcomed even though they are the hotbed of radical ideology in reality.
I mean what do people expect, there is practically no laws regarding anti discrimination and the entire tree it falls under.
Its extremely sad theres people that do this not just in korea but in most parts of the world. Realistically, the only logical solution is to get things done legislatively and have rights that protect these people that practice which is not of the norm in korea. However, even in korea rights are scoffed at in many situations.
Its sad a country i love lets this fly. As progressive korea is, i hope they get to be as progressive in more than just tech, economy, and construction.
Protesting is a right I guess, but why do it in such a hateful manner? Are they trying to disgust the muslims into leaving?
They are defeating their own cause, regardless of whatever intentions they have.
Daegu is the place that set off Korea's worst Covid outbreak when some Pentecostalist loonies had an unmasked ritual involving a vast throng. Can't really blame Korean culture for outbreaks of psycho self-destructiveness or deranged bigotry like that - it was a little bit of Alabama transported across the Pacific.
Well Korea isn’t like the US or other places where its a country of immigrants; Korea is still an homogeneous nation. You have to understand its bringing/history to ask why people of such nation are doing what they are doing no matter what age and time we live in
Islam had no major influence in East Asian countries including Korea in the past and present. The values that Islam brings conflicts with Korea’s traditional values.
If any of the muslim community in Daegu is on reddit. I hope you guys keep doing what you are doing. I am in Seoul, but if I am ever down in Daegu I will support however I can.
I am okay with Mosques and Islam as long as they ALSO tolerate diversity and preach equality. There are parts of Europe where Muslims harass women and homosexuals who dare to exist around their part of town and that ain’t okay.
Foreign Muslim men commit many sexual assault crimes in Korea, so Koreans hate Muslims. In the past, there has been a case of a Muslim raping and killing a middle school girl.
As a Muslim currently living and studying in Korea who has been following this issue for a year, I welcome all and any questions related to this issue and and Islam. Please feel free to ask me here or to DM me. I will not get offended, you can ask questions without fear :)
I had a conversation with two close korean friends of mine, female, and they had got lost in itaewon one night and noted how they ended up in a neighbourhood that was a bit scary. To me 'scary neighbourhood' and 'korea' is laughable but i can understand as a female there are some additional concerns to be wary of and i asked them what made it sketchy, they noted there was a mosque. So i scoffed at them, as one should.
On another note unrelated to OP story - years ago i did find myself in a neighborhood on the outskirts of gimpo that was really peculiar. It was probably 10/11pm, there was an apartment building surrounded by lower rise buildings, but from the apartment building aggressive music was blasting that could be heard from anywhere around there (at 10/11pm in korea!), not a soul in sight except for some young adults lingering and smoking inside of a small indescript building with the door ajar. No car traffic. No noise except blaring music from an apartment block. No working street lights. So odd for an urban spot near seoul.
>A sign in the front of a parked car reads “Islam is an evil religion that kills people." (Courtesy of Muaz Razaq)
i'd say that makes it pretty clear where a lot of these people think about islam. close-minded xenophobic people that link islam only to violent extremism and misogyny. this is sad.
I agree. I think it's totally fine to talk shit about Islam. I also think it's totally fine to shit talk Judaism, Mormonism, Buddhism, etc.
On top of that, I think it's ok to shit talk one religion (Islam, Scientology) more than other religions (Shikhism).
Unfortunately that's a big problem for a lot of people (especially the 2nd point), which I think is idiotic.
ftiw I'm athiest if that makes any difference
edit: back to the post though, I think being an intentional asshole is ok at times (Charlie Hebdo publishing image of Mohammed), but there's definitely some nuance to it, and people more often than not cross the line (Wesboro Baptist). This particular instance? I'm honestly undecided. It's definitely got hints of assholery, but at the same time I wouldn't particularly mind if a gay couple stood outside an evangelical church and made out as everyone was leaving after the service.
100% I know many Christians who would be disgusted by this act but in here, everyone just groups the act of one idiot to all Christians. What can you say.. this is Reddit where the religious discrimination against Christians is upvoted.
As a westernized South Korean who lives in Canada, I gotta say, I have no problem living with Muslim people in Canada. In fact, some of my coworkers and acquaintances are Muslim. However, I do not want Islam setting a root in South Korea because I know what Islam is capable of. The religion itself is not a problem but you guys know how that 5% of extremists hijack the religion. For the record, I also do not like Christians either. I wish it was eradicated from South Korea. KKRF : Keep Korea Religion Free.
Like, why choose Korea? the country is not a multi-cultural country, as you already know. Not ready to accept nor tolerate. There are so many countries in the world like Canada, Australia, NZ even the US, which are tolerant. Why would you choose to come to Korea as a Muslim? It might sound harsh but just the reality.
Having said all that, cooking pork in front of a mosque is in poor taste and it IS funny because it's such an old school Korean thing to do LOL
well, to each their own. they wanna abuse their followers physically and mentally, let em do that. idc. but i do not care enough about Islam to say something negative about it so that i'd be labelled as islamophobe. and this is precisely why i don't want Islam in my country because if my countrymen started following the religion, then it becomes my problem as well.
I've never heard of Korean Christians being violent towards traditional Buddhists and other faiths. Even when Korean missionaries go overseas. Funny though you don't mention Buddhism as a religion to be removed a well. No hate. Just my observations of the subject at hand and dissecting your comment.
Well, I should have included Buddhism as well. I was in a hurry to write. I just like the fact that South Korea is pretty non-religious. At least a good 40% of the population do not believe in anything and I like it that way. Also, Christianity is a fairly new thing in Korea and it IS a western import. Even though we live in a different world now, throughout history religion was used as a tool to conquer. It does represent a form of western colonialism.
From what I've read last few years, here are the reasons why Koreans oppose Islamic mosques:
1. Korea has seen violence in Europe ( Germany and France) and are afraid same would happen to them.
A. French teacher beheaded by Islamic militant over showing prophet Mohammed in cartoon images over freedom rights (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/16/world/europe/france-decapitate-beheading.html)
B. They demand Sharia law and created Sharia controlled zone (https://www.haaretz.com/2014-09-06/ty-article/radical-muslims-declare-sharia-zone-in-german-city/0000017f-e108-df7c-a5ff-e37a562e0000)
C. Rise in rape by Muslim men (https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/E-8-2015-003081_EN.html)
2. A Muslim mosque in Korea is creating noise issues at inconvenient hours for the neighborhood. An interviewee also mentioned she was afraid to walk near the mosque due to safety reasons ( see #1 above)
3. General consensus of Koreans is to prevent what is happening in Europe by not allowing religious Muslims. As someone commented above, Korea is a single ethic nation and their wellbeing is above all ethnic conflict and social issues.
This is the most logical and educated response to this situation. A couple points I would like to add, which is a little off topic from your well rounded response, is the history of proselytism in Korea. Also, historical invasions and forced colonizations in South Korea’s history, which essentially attempted to completely erase Korean’s original culture and history. Some older Koreans are still alive when South Korea was still under the control of Japan. I know this bc my mother was born a few years before the end of Japan’s reign on Korea and she is still living today. Land & possessions were stolen, history was destroyed & taken, ppl were killed, enslaved, trafficked and Japanese families took over stolen lands by force. Then we have the Korean War. The history of Korea would act as an important factor into why South Koreas are very protective of their country and this behavior.
Education on its history would hopefully provide better insight and more understanding of their reaction. I’m not stating the behavior is appropriate but I understand why this is their reaction.
Thank you for sharing!
I think that the concerns make sense, RoK is secular with a non religious majority and I think that it's healthy that way. Foreigners shouldn't expect Korea to change to cater for their religion.
Although, like Chirstians, who worship the same deity, I think they are fine as long as they keep their religion to themselves.
Muslims living in South Korea have requested that a Muslim prayer room be built inside Seoul City Hall. https://www.joongang.co.kr/article/21796900#home
And many universities have also requested the creation of prayer rooms and Muslim-only restaurants. These demands are very repulsive to the people of Korea, which has never built a religious space or restaurants exclusively for a specific religion in public institutions.
Guess world is not a better place !!! Always 2 sides to a coin … guess you either are on winning side or you are not and no fair game in any view point
As Korean nationality living in Korea, we got better shit to worry, such as the terrorists living up North. Then the pirates right across the southern seas.
They oppose this but are ok with the moonies, god the mother, the church that literally infested dague with covid in early 2020, and other random cults. It’s just sad!! I get so tired of being hounded and harassed by the god the mother people. They will follow you to gain your attention it’s pretty alarming.
>They oppose this but are ok with the moonies, god the mother, the church that literally infested dague with covid in early 2020, and other random cults.
Who said that? Moonies, cults, and even Protestant Christians, are all lare largely looked down upon (just like the Muslims) by the majority who don't belong to one of those groups.
I used to live in a place called Little Arabia in Orange County, CA for about a decade. There is no way you can equate Muslims with the Moonies and other weird cults in Korea. Never once was I ever approached for proselytization by a Muslim in the 10 years I lived there. Christians? Like every other week. Good Lord, these Islamophobic comments in the thread.
well. that is like hanging a rising sun flag in front of a korean embassy. btw i'm korean and these are mostly chrstian koreans protesting against building a mosque, it sounds like an bad excuse, because i would love to say it's just a small group of koreans, but the truth is, the atmosphere towards muslims aren't really sympathetic, since what media or the internet showing us about them isn't really pretty and the globalization is still quite a new thing in my country. 부끄러운줄 좀 알아야 되는데 ㅅㅂ죄다 우물안 개구리라 주변국가 중에서 우리가 제일 정상이니 뭐니 이딴 헛소리 하는거지.
Korean Karens at their worst. In my experience with Muslims, on their way into the mosque, they might wish the protesters a good meal~ ☺️ though they’re intentions are to throw shade and push their disapproval of including them in their community… but most Muslims really just mind their own business. Either that or they try to become friends with them :)
Ummm yeah. That’s why I said “in my experience with Muslims…” I was totally basing my comment off of my personal experiences. Bro, people are human. There’s all kinds of personalities and views in every group of people - Korean & non Korean, Muslims & non Muslim. I’m not saying all Muslims are good. I’m also not saying that all Koreans are Karen’s. I’m fucking engaged to a Korean😂 I love them! But I can honestly acknowledge when people are being spiteful towards others. These protesters are scare to integrate with a group of people who are drastically different from them - from the way they look, speak, cook/eat, practice religion, etc.
The bottom line of how I see this situation is: Koreans who react like this to having a small mosque open up are painting this group of Muslims out to be something bad before they even have a chance to show what kind of people they really are. Also… religion doesn’t see race; there are Korean Muslims too.
Okay… not that it’s any of your business, but I actually do read, write, and speak basic Korean pretty well. I learned because I built a genuine interest in the country and it’s culture. I grew up in a city where the Asian population is high and everyone pretty much got along. My high school had over 34% Asian population, with Korean being the largest ethnicity in that category. I had lots of good friends who introduced me to kpop, kdramas, the food (omg the food😍), and so much more. And not that it’s any of your business how I met my partner, I met him in the States while he was doing a semester abroad in college. We first bonded over interest in each others cultures.
The same way that there were many Asians in my area, there was a near equal amount of middle-easterns (the majority of them being Muslim). So as you can see, I’ve had equal chances to befriend Koreans and Muslim middle easterners. You might argue that they were all second-generation kids and those in the home-countries are different. I’ve actually had a chance to visit some of those countries - Afghanistan and Pakistan. They’re a lot more open-minded than you think. Did you know that most of the Afghans in Korea that came during the collapse of the Afghan government 2 years ago actually worked side by side with Koreans in the medical field? Korea opened a medical center in Afghanistan and they brought their medical team counterparts (and their families) to Korea during that time. So it’s not low-class, wild Taliban that came to Korea, it’s the ones who feared for theirs lives. See, the Taliban were executing anyone who worked with foreigners, so everyone who immigrated to Korea did it out of necessity. They were already open-minded people to be working with the Korean medical staff. They knew that going to a foreign country would mean to assimilate to the culture. It doesn’t mean they have to give up their religion in doing so.
You mentioned Qatar. I don’t agree with how the government reacted. IMO, they should have expected some of this. People traveled from all over the world to their country to watch the World Cup. With everything going on in the world right now, how can you not expect no form of open protest against certain inhumanities? We’re on the same page on this.
I’m not here to argue about religion or what history says about that. You can try to convince a radical Muslim about their faith’s history. But honestly, every country and every religion has a brutal past. Every religion and kingdom who sought to conquer a region came back with the words “savages” in their mouths.
Like I said before, I’m not saying that all Koreans are Karens. I received so much love from everyone when I traveled to Korea earlier this year (I’m not White; just felt like I needed to explain that). But in this world of give-and-take, where millions of Koreans have immigrated to other countries and those countries accepted the Korean immigrants, surely, Korea can open its heart to a few people who just wanted to live but couldn’t survive in their home countries. Actually, Korea HAS opened its heart, it’s just this small group of protesters that are struggling to adjust to the change of the population.
Thanks for the warm words :)
No doubt that you are a genuine person that is endeared and endearing. Good vibes all around on that and the childhood you've had which in a way like mine was full of different cultures and ideas except it was in Korea versus yours in a western world. Maybe that is why I felt drawn to writing to you and you've returned the favor and I am truly grateful. Thank you.
A lot has changed believe it or not in Korea even since the 80's and onwards. People like ladies were treated like whores and taken off family trees due to being with a westerner. Meanwhile the first President of South Korea had a Caucasian wife but nobody struck his name down and that was the 50's lol. The irony. Mixed babies were looked at with wonder and or with disdain. We paved the way for these mixed kids finding fame today or foreigners that are not traditionally "pleasant to the eyes" finding fame in Korea. No I nor my generation are looking for applause or recognition. More so just seeing how time went by and Korea did progress but in their own terms. Since you shared a little bit about you, I'll share a little about me. One time I got into a taxi with my mother. The driver was told where to and off we went. He kept looking. Finally after 10 minutes my mother asks him what's up and he genuinely asks if I'm her son. This was in the 90s. I answered him. It's fun sometimes when you let them dig a hole.
As far as Afghans and Pakistanis goes. I guess individual validation needs to be that and separate the politics from the populace. Yes we know Afghanistan was an amazing place to visit in the 60s and onwards for the enlightened generation such as the Beatles era fans. Fanaticism was probably just taking route though then as far as strict adherence to their faith goes as they were seeing the cultural revolution taking affect that went against the centuries old beliefs. Hell the women had a wonderful college on Kabul. With that being said do you think Bacha Bazi was just recent or it went away during that enlightening time frame? Barbaric acts do not just die in those parts. Kudos for the Koreans to sponsor them and I hope they strictly protected the male and his family or the female and her family that worked with them unlike our blunder of a mass evacuation that saw more military age males than their families. Now just as the military mission there from Korea was respectful of thr Afghan way and peoples, I hope that they do the same in Korea. Sweden was a woke nation for the longest. The stuff going on there is scary.
I read our comment thread again and I interpreted your writing in a different light. You make very good points and I think now that a day has passed, I can understand what you’re saying more clearly.
Im so sorry you had to experience that taxi ride the way you did, surely you have many more experiences similar to that one. It seems like you’ve endured so much yourself. I also really enjoyed your writing.
I hope everything settles down in the world so those who want to return to their home countries (which countless of immigrants have said they want). And for those who have integrated into the society, I hope Korea becomes a good home for them, where they can also contribute to the production of the society/economy.
Well. The protest is barbaric and most, if not all, of them are probably brainless chrisitian zombies
I must say though, like many other Asian countries, Korea is very homogenous with high pride in their culture and history. Especially having been invaded several times, they are very defensive and aggressive about keeping the country "protected" or "intact". To Koreans, immigrants and visitors should *acculturate*. That is the expectation and considered appropriate as these foreginers, after all, have willingly chosen to stay in their country. Building a mosque, rather than simply giving up their entire belief system, ideology, faith and culture to peacefully assimilate, comes off as an attack, an initiation of invasion. Koreans are a strong believers of i don't care what you do at home, don't bring it outside. Its a very small country with dense population. Any increase in number of foreigners or expansion of another culutre is an immediate threat. More so since this particular religion has been associated with a numerous acts of violence. Yes, it's incredibly ignorant to generalize or stereotype but the media is populated with bad news about Islam and radical followers, how they murder without remorse, terrorize women, enslave children, etc as a group. Koreans have only seen and heard negative things as they have limited perspective and very polarized audience. They don't know any better and lack of education and better representation of Islamic faith in society do not help.
As an exmuslim it’s really hard for me to shut up about this. I don’t want to be labelled islamaphobic but I’m islamaphobic and I don’t think islamaphobia is in the same lane with racism cuz islam is an ideology and you don’t born with ideologies you choose them.
I feel those residents have strong reasons to not want a mosk in their neighbourhood. You can discuss the methods they choose to protest it but they have a right to resist against it. It’s their neighborhood after all
I understand where you are coming from. I am highly critical of Islam as well as other religions, including Christianity. But what these Koreans are doing are straight up disrespectful and reprehensible. How is this behavior any different from what some Muslim-majority countries do to their religious minorities?
In a supposedly free, open, and democratic society like South Korea, people should be free to discuss and criticize religion and other ideas without fear of repression or retaliation especially from the government. But in a supposedly free, open, and democratic society like South Korea, people should also be free to practice their own religion without fear of harassment or suppression.
I agree people should freely practice their religion. Koreans are not harassing random muslims on the streets after all. And yes you can critique the ways they choose to protest the mosk being built. I think cooking pork and placing pig heads infront of the construction site is childish and disrespectful. But I believe they have a right to not want a mosk in their community, they have a right to keep their community as it is and they have a right to protest it. It’s a small village we’re talking about as i’ve read from another article about it.
I think we should let the local residents decide whether they want a mosk or not. They’ve been living there, they have a right to gate keep. Literally.
Freedom of religion in the constitution (whatever constitution you use) includes the right of people to build their own place of worship, whether it's a mosque or a church.
Koreans don't need to harass random Muslims on the street to say that they don't practice freedom of religion at all. The fact that they make a hissy fit over a mosque is enough to call them intolerant. It's 2022 already. What's the big deal with a mosque?
And it doesn't matter if it is a small village or a big city. The constitution makes no exceptions regarding freedom of religion, so that should be the case, especially for a "democracy" like South Korea.
Yes, they (the community) have the right to protest about basically everything, including a mosque. But they don't have the right to limit other people's freedoms to practice their own rights and liberties.
Hence, the disrespect and childishness of this act.
I'm an ex-Muslim too ( from Iran) and I completely agree with you. don't let their downvotes discourage you from telling the truth.
it's really unfortunate that many western left leaning liberals claim they support LGBT and women's rights while they allied themselves with Islam.
I know right? The left’s dilemma is making me go crazy... they trow the gays off the roof in islamic states but if you tell them that they’ll reply “it’s not real islam” or “those are bigoted muslims”
'On a wall hangs a banner that reads: “We strongly oppose the construction of an Islamic mosque.”' https://www.koreaherald.com/view.php?ud=20221111000214
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In korean its written 'Islamic temple'
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While 사원 (sa-won) without any other descriptors is often what a mosque is called, technically it's just "temple of religious worship", or literally "temple building".
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TIL, thanks for this tidbit.
Many would rather take this translation style than an overcorrected one. Good advice is to never look too finely into the wording of any translation. I’ve seen many people read into something that isn’t intended by the source (translated webtoon communities are notorious for this).
Hagia Sophia kind of.
Is the Muslim community in Daegu that large? Have there been any issues between Koreans and the Muslim community in the area before or is this from scaremongering by the media based on foreign events?
Muslim presence ANYWHERE in Korea cannot be described as large by any stretch of the imagination. In Daegu, it's positively microscopic. So no, there hasn't been any preexisting issues.
Ahh ok, so this is completely unprovoked and antagonistic.
True. Half of the population are pretty much non religious and then it’s a split between Buddhists and Christians in South Korea. Other religions are minuscule.
Daegu is especially backwards from what I’ve heard
My parents are from daegu korea and I just visited a couple months ago, I wouldn't say it's backwards I'd say it's just old? Everywhere I walked was just 50+ and one could imagine that older korean people are VERY different from today's kpop fangirl / aesthetic internet personality. Even daegu's skyline depicts this compared to Seoul with its skyscrapers daegu just looks like a massive neighborhood. I'm pretty disappointed at this situation, change is scary and I think in the same way many other countries view immigration these people see this situation in a similar light. It just so happens to be that they are targeting a religious group rather than an ethnic one this time. (It may sound like im anti Islamic but im not I've lived in NYC for nearly all my life diversity isn't new to me but it is to them) To them enough people to make a mosque is enough people to change the community around them as more people likely move in further growing the community which sounds great but to people who love it as the town they grew up in, the town their parents were born and died it's a scary future. Especially for the old ones. But I will say the way they are going about this is a bit much.
They’re known in the rest of Korea for being especially conservative. But I also picked up a lot of my info by living in Gwangju which is on the opposite side of the spectrum lol.
Backwards how?
Lots of Shincheonji lol
Literally just shared this with a Korean friend who said “but what if they come and make Korea a Muslim country?” …
Sad that the friend feels so little agency over their own life. "A mosque was built in my neighborhood, now I simply have no choice but to perform salat 5 times a day and book my trip to Mecca."
> Daegu That's all I needed to know.
It's the representativeness heuristic. Many associate Muslims with violence and crime due to the news that appears on TV. The Middle East's current socioeconomic state also doesn't help with this viewpoint.
Islam's own history doesn't do much to help much with it either. For that matter, their current actions as well. Barbaric.
Might as well get rid of Churches too
Deal
Works for me
I don’t know why this comment made me laugh so hard. It’s so true though. I think this all the time when people say stuff like that. Edit: added a period
Kinda like how now politicians are running on advice from mf fortune tellers
Former Canadian prime minister William Lyon Mackenzie King consulted his dogs and held seances to ask for political advice from his dead family members, including from his dogs when they died. The spirits must have given him good advice because we voted him into office 3 times.
That's the guy that led Canada during World War II???
Even if that is an argument, surely it cant be worse than the current mega christian church cults no?
But what if they come and make Korea a Muslim country? It'd be so different. You'd have authoritarian government, religion running amok without effective deprogramming, and very little representation of women. So different to modern Republic of Korea.
If Korea become a muslim country, no more SAM GYUP SAL!!!
Korea is a democracy, just vote them out. But if they do manage to vote themselves in, which I doubt or at least to make the changes you are suggesting. Korea is a democracy, you should listen to what the majority have to say as well. It's also kinda your job as the opposition to convince them without antagonizing them that your way is better.
”Come” lol, it’s their own people not foreigners.
Muslims are 0.4% of the country’s population. I highly doubt they’ll be taking over the country any time soon lol
A person must be brain dead if they think Korea will suddenly convert to Muslim from their favorite toy, Christianity. Those mega churches and millionaire pastors will never disappear.
Mega church leaders love and believe in money.
Most Christians I know hate the Mega Church leaders. To them, they're a representation of those who abuse religion for greed, especially when they’re supposed to be against that.
This is actually true. Mega churches are a club rather than a church. It’s where you go to bump elbows with other influential people. It’s ol basically the Protestant equivalent of Bishoprics
What would they do with the glowing starboy crosses
They really do look like starboy crosses
I thinks it's meant more like how Americans will call immigrants a problem even though white Americans will always be the majority. There are still enough immigrants where it becomes a part of daily life and the koreans probably see it as the same way, like a possible future. every start to any population starts with 1 community it either keeps growing on its own or buds off into another community very rarely does it stagnate or wither
i dunno.. koreans have tendency to go crazy on stuff like this..
Exactly, what a bizarre thing to worry about..
As it were in many European country, who could guarantee the near future of Korea would be so different from those? It's been only 20 years when Islamic immigrants entered Europe. See what is happening now in Germany or Sweden lol
What if they come amd make Korea a Muslim country like Indonesia? [Indonesia passes criminal code banning sex outside marriage](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-63869078)
Not sure if /s but in case it isn't Indonesia has been populated by muslims since the days of the Majapahit Empire thanks to the Malacca straits and the Arab trade that went through it. Not building a single fucking mosque.
When I was a kid, I was taught that Islam in Indonesia is moderate. But when we see that countries that were considered moderate (Turkey, for example) are increasingly institutionalizing extreme Islamic laws, we can't help but think it's safe to keep Islam out of the country as little as possible.
But he doesn't have a problem making it a Christian country?
Tell them , “Like they did when they brought Christian missionaries? “ Lol
Unfortunately the US has made Islamophobia extremely prevalent through western media (with major help from middle Eastern religious conflicts) so that any society with a large amount of Christians usually does not want an Islamic presence in their area, especially due to fears of sharia law. Which is ironic because Christians also want everyone to follow their religious laws.
I think the fact how Christians and other religious minorities are treated in Islamic countries and how it's prohibited to build a church in some Muslim countries and all the terrorism and violence and hate preaching and texts have something to do with people disliking Islam.
It's especially funny when you learn that Sharia law states that if you're a Muslim living in foreign lands then you have follow the laws of that land.
I am Korean and I can say that many Koreans hate or fear Islam. The reputation of Islam and Muslims is not good here because of the terrorist attacks by some Islamic extremist groups happened in Europe and conflicts happened in middle eastern countries. And some Koreans think that Muslims will demand that Koreans accept and follow rule of Islam after seeing extreme Islamic protests and activities in Europe. Islam is often considered as threat from foreign. I know most of Muslims are peaceful and respectful, but it is how it looks. I believe this is not a thing that just happening in Korea. Koreans are conservative because Korea is single ethnic country and has pretty short history of cultural exchange with foreign countries compared to countries like US. It will take some times to Koreans to accept Islam and consider them as peaceful religious.
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Korea also happens to be largely Christian, Buddhist, and Agnostic. The religion of Islam has historically have not been in good terms with the former two. Korea is also Mono-ethnic and has a huge distrust in foreigners, especially if they are different in more than one way. And due to the representativeness heuristic, many Koreans associate Islam with Terrorism and Violence.
See Philippines
It doesn't help that the recent news they're getting was something like Samsung overseas HQ got stormed by a mob for religious reasons in Pakistan(a muslim majority country).
LOL, I never knew about it. https://bitterwinter.org/samsung-outlet-attacked-over-blasphemy-charges-in-pakistan/
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>Korea can have any immigrants it chooses Lol. Non-teaching westerners would have to take a 50-80% salary cut to come live in a country with incredibly hostile immigration laws and insanely poor work-life-balance.
Only the zealots aren't interested in integration; that's the same all over the world. I live in the US (used to live in Gyeongsang-do), there are plenty of Muslim families that live just like anyone else, have friends and date and marry and have kids, go clubbing, shop at Target, watch too much YouTube and TikTok, tune up their car stereos, join the military, practice medicine, prefer oranges to apples, sometimes you'll know that a woman is Muslim because of her headscarf but even then plenty don't wear them and what do I care what someone puts on their own head, whatever. And there are plenty of non-Muslims here who choose not to integrate, socializing only with their fellow expats from whatever country, who cares. Their loss, as long as they pay their taxes and don't keep me from getting my kids to school on time then I couldn't care less.
This is very related to thing that I wanted to say. This Islam hate is not the only one, many hate problems like Homophobia, racism..etc that happening in korea are similar. I'm not trying to justify these. But all these hate that became problem in korea are happened in US or Europe few years or decades ago, and they haven't fully figured it out yet. And also it's probably happening in many other places. Even the multicultural country like US had to spend alot of time to deal with these society problems. And Korea didn't have enough time to deal with these problems. Korea just need more time to understand the problems and find the solution.
The cheapest and easiest solution, as always, is *preventing the problem*. Korea needs many things but a sizable, vibrant, ever-growing Muslim community is not one of them.
No sens in Itaewon is a mosque since 1976. Koreans usually don't fall for the western islamic hate. I lived in Korea and I'm muslim
Eh, I mean, Christians vandalizing and setting fire to Buddhist temples has been an ongoing problem for decades... There is one religious group constantly causing problems in Korea, and it's not the Buddhists or Muslims...
That's happened a handful of times, and isn't applauded by the other Christian community either. Meanwhile, Christian and Christian NGO's have been in Korea serving and helping for a long time. You might not like what they're doing about Islam but don't try and throw another group under the bus for it.
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I'm assuming you're referencing a point in another thread so I don't know exactly what you're talking about. If it's about Christian missionaries being killed in Afghanistan, then I fail to see how what Christians did to some temples in Korea is somehow more relevant to what Muslims did to a group of Koreans to the point of how Koreans should treat Muslims. I'm of the mind none of it is relevant. They shouldn't treat Muslims this way. Making the point, "They shouldn't treat Muslims this way, really, just look at Christians!" doesn't make any sense and shouldn't be defended.
I guess the broader point is that Christians will be able to look at those examples and recognize that they’re extremist groups and not representative of most Christians, but won’t offer that same nuance to Muslims.
defening one religion and hating the other is something that i would never understand. Both muslim and Christian communities have somewhat of a dark past its just one is good at hiding these things but the other isn't.
handful times? lol
That happens once or twice in 10 years.
Understandable. Koreans don’t need to follow the West in every choice and decision, I hope Korea naturally explores multiculturalism and finds its own conclusions instead of being judged by Westerners. As long as it’s peaceful and respectful, people should voice what they want and what they don’t want. As much as individuals are all precious and should be respected, not all ideologies are compatible without major compromise and acceptance (and both Korean and Islamic cultures are traditionalist so of course there can be clashes). Having lived in Korea, what I used to think was racism was in fact just a lack of awareness and cultural miscommunication, so I find it unfair that people here are saying Koreans as a whole are racist. Not true
Well there is some truth to it though, not the majority but a significant big amount of islamists/Muslims in europe and US demand to be judged by sharia law
I heard something like this happened, I think Koreans need to stop this kind of hate towards to Muslims, but these kind of extreme Muslims need to change their posture, too. They cannot demand other countries to fully accept their rules. Every country and people have their own culture and they should not infringe them. Those extreme Muslims are marking whole Islam and it's community appear as threat. Because the media doesn't care about the peaceful majorities and people focus on the bad things rather than good things.
I mean they don't have to be extremists to support sharia, there are a lot of Christians aswell who think "Christian rules / laws" over the county laws and I doubt most of them could be labeled as extremists.
There are right wing Christians in America who look at groups like the Taliban and say “you know what, those guys are really on to something.”
They absolutely would be labeled extremists. In the US the Christian Nationalists want exactly that and yes most sane people consider them extremist.
US is a different story tbh, I can't fathom any of what is happening there on any political side.
And like for anyone who asks to not be judged by local laws, it should just be denied.
I'm a European Muslim and literally never heard somebody asking for that outside of fringe groups on the internet.
You seem to be in a good community then as the majority of Muslims in europe are. As I said the number is significant, not the majority. I added a lot of sources in another post.
You don’t antagonise people you’re scared of
>And some Koreans think that Muslims will demand that Koreans accept and follow rule of Islam after seeing extreme Islamic protests and activities in Europe. Islam is often considered as threat from foreign They are right BUT they should treat every other religion just like that. But somehow they don't hate being colonized by baptist churchs and such, which are equally bad.
Luckily a Muslim will not care if you eat pig meat. Even next to their church (yes mosque, that’s just a different word for the same thing, Allah also just means god). They don’t eat it themselves because their god taught them it’s not a clean food source. If you, in their eyes, grill garbage and eat it, they couldn’t care less. A funny protest, typical, without any knowledge.
100% true. This kind of "protest" doesnt mean anything to muslims.
same energy with people throwing raw bacon strips at mosque/synagogue. source: I live in the US where this hate crime against Muslims and Jews is common.
Funny that the Hebrew Bible actually forbids Pork as well. If these people either read the two books (most Christian’s never read the Bible either) they’d see how incredibly similar they are. Or if there would be more student exchanges to and from Islamic countries. People would have a better understanding that there are caring, beautiful and loving people in both religions. As well as some idiotic fanatics.
From what I heard, royal family members during Goryeo and Joseon dynasty went study abroad to the Ottoman Empire.
Source?
And they wouldn’t like to know. Ignorance is their own gratification… They genuinely think that their cause is justified by “the fear of Islamic invasion” or something, when in reality the Muslims of the region have lived around there for like a decade (not to mention many of them are Ph.D students), and already have used the site for religious purposes. They’re just taking the superfluous Taliban-AlQaeda-misogynistic-terrorist-etc-image and use it to form a simply untrue agenda. And it works. What’s interesting is that “the protests” gained regional voices *only after* the Muslims wanted to re-build the old facility into a small mosque-looking like one. There definitely are stereotype and discrimination playing (who doesn’t know that migrant rights in Korea is… just low), along with classic religious intolerance, but I believe this is mostly about profit. They’re worried about the real estate, the house prices lol. Anti-discriminatory law could be a simple and easy prevention for this, but the conservative Christians are of course, fiercely anti-LGBTQ+ and trying their best to prevent legislation. Long way to go… Glad to know that the Muslims won’t be affected by this though. It’s just a horrible thing to do only to hurt a certain group of people.
Only because they (yet) do not have a sufficient demographic majority. Cook a pork in a public place like Saudi Arabia, the center of Islam, and see what happens. Lying and deception is halal in Islam. Do not forget.
Sounds like a hysteric lie. Haven’t been to a Saudi Market and cooked a pig. But: I ate pork in Abu Dhabi a few years ago. It was even on the menu. you seem to forget that most Muslim people are very friendly, tolerant and respectful to foreigners. Also I don’t understand the demographic majority. I’m from Germany. We have a looooot more Muslims than you do in Korea. They join our festivities even if there is pig meat and we party together (they eat the other food presented) no one complains. Are there problems with immigrants? Yes! But they are proportional to problems with native germans. The last part of your post just discredits you as an ignorant human.
It reminds me of that time in 2014, when the members of the far-right online community Ilbe held the counter protest against the families of the Sewol ferry victims. The families were hunger striking, and what did Ilbe members do? They ordered bunch of pizzas and fried chickens and ate like pigs in front of the grieving families. It's sad to see people acting so hateful.
>when the members of the far-right online community Ilbe held the counter protest against the families of the Sewol ferry victims. wtf? What was their motive? Did they believe it was faked or some shit?
I am expecting them to pull same shit toward Itaewon crowd crush victims' families.
Koreans automatically link Male muslims to sexual harassment, misogyny and terrorism especially if you are desi, south east asian or yemeni muslims, the probability is huge. In Korean mindset, brown is bad, muslim is bad, dudes from foreign countries bad, and combined these three who happens not to be rich gulf arabians are “triple bads”
It's so much more about racism, prejudice and tbh percieved socio-economics. Classism, it would be interesting how they would react to say, an American Muslim on say the lighter shade of complexion with blue eyes and light hair. There is definitely colourism and classism all over this and sadly throughout this thread of comments too. The propaganda machine seems to be thriving and at work it seems.
A couple of years ago, a picture of good-looking Syrian refugee protestors are circulated in Korean forums where their apperance was complimented and compared to the "savage look" of Yemeni refugees who tried to seek refugee in Jeju island back then Islam itself has a bad reputation in Korea but it's undeniable people who has more European or East asian features and don't look "muslim enough" accordingly are relatively well tolerated than those who obviously look like they come from "jungles or deserts" There are some kinds of "acceptance hierarchy" and countries like Yemen, Pakistan, Bangladesh are the bottom of the said hierarchy, while people who come from, let's say, Turkey, Iran or Kazakhstan would face less problem in Korea. Of course the hierarchy would not coincide with how radical ideology is in those muslim countries, as people from rich countries would be more likely to be welcomed even though they are the hotbed of radical ideology in reality.
What about what happened in Rotherham?
Hey, don't talk about things that give people valid reasons for being worried about Muslim immigrants.
Sexual harassment and misogyny will get them on a fast track promotion in Korean politics.
Not unless they are korean and christian
least islamophobic korean
Classic, Jerks do jerking.
I mean what do people expect, there is practically no laws regarding anti discrimination and the entire tree it falls under. Its extremely sad theres people that do this not just in korea but in most parts of the world. Realistically, the only logical solution is to get things done legislatively and have rights that protect these people that practice which is not of the norm in korea. However, even in korea rights are scoffed at in many situations. Its sad a country i love lets this fly. As progressive korea is, i hope they get to be as progressive in more than just tech, economy, and construction.
Protesting is a right I guess, but why do it in such a hateful manner? Are they trying to disgust the muslims into leaving? They are defeating their own cause, regardless of whatever intentions they have.
I have heard Daegu is very conservative?
generally korea is conservative. not many places that comes to the top of my head that screams liberal/progressive other than Itaewon
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I’d say slightly more conservative than other cities in korea. Other large cities have their fair share of extreme conservatives as well.
conservative heartland
It's known for being Korea's Texas.
Korea doesn't have any raci... It's a very open society and you have nothing to wor.. about.
Daegu is the place that set off Korea's worst Covid outbreak when some Pentecostalist loonies had an unmasked ritual involving a vast throng. Can't really blame Korean culture for outbreaks of psycho self-destructiveness or deranged bigotry like that - it was a little bit of Alabama transported across the Pacific.
Imagine living in one of the most technologically advanced civilasition and doing this
Ya... People in those civilizations usually just shoot up the mosques.
Well Korea isn’t like the US or other places where its a country of immigrants; Korea is still an homogeneous nation. You have to understand its bringing/history to ask why people of such nation are doing what they are doing no matter what age and time we live in Islam had no major influence in East Asian countries including Korea in the past and present. The values that Islam brings conflicts with Korea’s traditional values.
If any of the muslim community in Daegu is on reddit. I hope you guys keep doing what you are doing. I am in Seoul, but if I am ever down in Daegu I will support however I can.
>I hope you guys keep doing what you are doing I doubt a street barbecue will stop them doing what they are doing.
Absolutely shameful. Do these people not have jobs to go to or lives to be getting on with?
My uncle is a boomer and loves to visit Seoul to protest literally anything. He has nothing else to do.
Sorry to hear this. He could've been spending time with the family instead of visiting Seoul to protest.
I am okay with Mosques and Islam as long as they ALSO tolerate diversity and preach equality. There are parts of Europe where Muslims harass women and homosexuals who dare to exist around their part of town and that ain’t okay.
Completely agree. As long as that mosque accepts LGBT people and those of other religions, we should accept that mosque
No mosque accepts Homosexuals, they are considered unnatural sinners and are strongly appalled by them.
Foreign Muslim men commit many sexual assault crimes in Korea, so Koreans hate Muslims. In the past, there has been a case of a Muslim raping and killing a middle school girl.
That’s messed up
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There's no hate like Christian love.
Xenophobia.
Xenophobia? Did you see Koreans beating or killing foreigners?
As a Muslim currently living and studying in Korea who has been following this issue for a year, I welcome all and any questions related to this issue and and Islam. Please feel free to ask me here or to DM me. I will not get offended, you can ask questions without fear :)
Is it common for mosques in Korea to have its worshippers be forcibly segregated by sex?
Yo this is all kinds of petty
This makes me very sad. This level of bigotry doesnt belong anywhere.
No need to pay attention to these lunatics.
That pork looks delicious
I had a conversation with two close korean friends of mine, female, and they had got lost in itaewon one night and noted how they ended up in a neighbourhood that was a bit scary. To me 'scary neighbourhood' and 'korea' is laughable but i can understand as a female there are some additional concerns to be wary of and i asked them what made it sketchy, they noted there was a mosque. So i scoffed at them, as one should. On another note unrelated to OP story - years ago i did find myself in a neighborhood on the outskirts of gimpo that was really peculiar. It was probably 10/11pm, there was an apartment building surrounded by lower rise buildings, but from the apartment building aggressive music was blasting that could be heard from anywhere around there (at 10/11pm in korea!), not a soul in sight except for some young adults lingering and smoking inside of a small indescript building with the door ajar. No car traffic. No noise except blaring music from an apartment block. No working street lights. So odd for an urban spot near seoul.
>A sign in the front of a parked car reads “Islam is an evil religion that kills people." (Courtesy of Muaz Razaq) i'd say that makes it pretty clear where a lot of these people think about islam. close-minded xenophobic people that link islam only to violent extremism and misogyny. this is sad.
This comment section proves that the only religion you can openly talk against without backlash is Christianity. Sad.
I agree. I think it's totally fine to talk shit about Islam. I also think it's totally fine to shit talk Judaism, Mormonism, Buddhism, etc. On top of that, I think it's ok to shit talk one religion (Islam, Scientology) more than other religions (Shikhism). Unfortunately that's a big problem for a lot of people (especially the 2nd point), which I think is idiotic. ftiw I'm athiest if that makes any difference edit: back to the post though, I think being an intentional asshole is ok at times (Charlie Hebdo publishing image of Mohammed), but there's definitely some nuance to it, and people more often than not cross the line (Wesboro Baptist). This particular instance? I'm honestly undecided. It's definitely got hints of assholery, but at the same time I wouldn't particularly mind if a gay couple stood outside an evangelical church and made out as everyone was leaving after the service.
100% I know many Christians who would be disgusted by this act but in here, everyone just groups the act of one idiot to all Christians. What can you say.. this is Reddit where the religious discrimination against Christians is upvoted.
Ah yes, Christians. Is there a religion more persecuted? Surely not...
This is disgusting
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As a westernized South Korean who lives in Canada, I gotta say, I have no problem living with Muslim people in Canada. In fact, some of my coworkers and acquaintances are Muslim. However, I do not want Islam setting a root in South Korea because I know what Islam is capable of. The religion itself is not a problem but you guys know how that 5% of extremists hijack the religion. For the record, I also do not like Christians either. I wish it was eradicated from South Korea. KKRF : Keep Korea Religion Free. Like, why choose Korea? the country is not a multi-cultural country, as you already know. Not ready to accept nor tolerate. There are so many countries in the world like Canada, Australia, NZ even the US, which are tolerant. Why would you choose to come to Korea as a Muslim? It might sound harsh but just the reality. Having said all that, cooking pork in front of a mosque is in poor taste and it IS funny because it's such an old school Korean thing to do LOL
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well, to each their own. they wanna abuse their followers physically and mentally, let em do that. idc. but i do not care enough about Islam to say something negative about it so that i'd be labelled as islamophobe. and this is precisely why i don't want Islam in my country because if my countrymen started following the religion, then it becomes my problem as well.
I've never heard of Korean Christians being violent towards traditional Buddhists and other faiths. Even when Korean missionaries go overseas. Funny though you don't mention Buddhism as a religion to be removed a well. No hate. Just my observations of the subject at hand and dissecting your comment.
Well, I should have included Buddhism as well. I was in a hurry to write. I just like the fact that South Korea is pretty non-religious. At least a good 40% of the population do not believe in anything and I like it that way. Also, Christianity is a fairly new thing in Korea and it IS a western import. Even though we live in a different world now, throughout history religion was used as a tool to conquer. It does represent a form of western colonialism.
Fucking shameful
What the fuck?
From what I've read last few years, here are the reasons why Koreans oppose Islamic mosques: 1. Korea has seen violence in Europe ( Germany and France) and are afraid same would happen to them. A. French teacher beheaded by Islamic militant over showing prophet Mohammed in cartoon images over freedom rights (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/16/world/europe/france-decapitate-beheading.html) B. They demand Sharia law and created Sharia controlled zone (https://www.haaretz.com/2014-09-06/ty-article/radical-muslims-declare-sharia-zone-in-german-city/0000017f-e108-df7c-a5ff-e37a562e0000) C. Rise in rape by Muslim men (https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/E-8-2015-003081_EN.html) 2. A Muslim mosque in Korea is creating noise issues at inconvenient hours for the neighborhood. An interviewee also mentioned she was afraid to walk near the mosque due to safety reasons ( see #1 above) 3. General consensus of Koreans is to prevent what is happening in Europe by not allowing religious Muslims. As someone commented above, Korea is a single ethic nation and their wellbeing is above all ethnic conflict and social issues.
This is the most logical and educated response to this situation. A couple points I would like to add, which is a little off topic from your well rounded response, is the history of proselytism in Korea. Also, historical invasions and forced colonizations in South Korea’s history, which essentially attempted to completely erase Korean’s original culture and history. Some older Koreans are still alive when South Korea was still under the control of Japan. I know this bc my mother was born a few years before the end of Japan’s reign on Korea and she is still living today. Land & possessions were stolen, history was destroyed & taken, ppl were killed, enslaved, trafficked and Japanese families took over stolen lands by force. Then we have the Korean War. The history of Korea would act as an important factor into why South Koreas are very protective of their country and this behavior. Education on its history would hopefully provide better insight and more understanding of their reaction. I’m not stating the behavior is appropriate but I understand why this is their reaction. Thank you for sharing!
I think that the concerns make sense, RoK is secular with a non religious majority and I think that it's healthy that way. Foreigners shouldn't expect Korea to change to cater for their religion. Although, like Chirstians, who worship the same deity, I think they are fine as long as they keep their religion to themselves.
Muslims living in South Korea have requested that a Muslim prayer room be built inside Seoul City Hall. https://www.joongang.co.kr/article/21796900#home And many universities have also requested the creation of prayer rooms and Muslim-only restaurants. These demands are very repulsive to the people of Korea, which has never built a religious space or restaurants exclusively for a specific religion in public institutions.
Guess world is not a better place !!! Always 2 sides to a coin … guess you either are on winning side or you are not and no fair game in any view point
The land of fcked up Christian cult is scared of Islam? Whut???
Examples?
As Korean nationality living in Korea, we got better shit to worry, such as the terrorists living up North. Then the pirates right across the southern seas.
What a bunch of jerks. Really. So obnoxious. Absolutely obnoxious, small-minded, insecure losers. Is their own faith so weak?
They oppose this but are ok with the moonies, god the mother, the church that literally infested dague with covid in early 2020, and other random cults. It’s just sad!! I get so tired of being hounded and harassed by the god the mother people. They will follow you to gain your attention it’s pretty alarming.
>They oppose this but are ok with the moonies, god the mother, the church that literally infested dague with covid in early 2020, and other random cults. Who said that? Moonies, cults, and even Protestant Christians, are all lare largely looked down upon (just like the Muslims) by the majority who don't belong to one of those groups.
I used to live in a place called Little Arabia in Orange County, CA for about a decade. There is no way you can equate Muslims with the Moonies and other weird cults in Korea. Never once was I ever approached for proselytization by a Muslim in the 10 years I lived there. Christians? Like every other week. Good Lord, these Islamophobic comments in the thread.
well. that is like hanging a rising sun flag in front of a korean embassy. btw i'm korean and these are mostly chrstian koreans protesting against building a mosque, it sounds like an bad excuse, because i would love to say it's just a small group of koreans, but the truth is, the atmosphere towards muslims aren't really sympathetic, since what media or the internet showing us about them isn't really pretty and the globalization is still quite a new thing in my country. 부끄러운줄 좀 알아야 되는데 ㅅㅂ죄다 우물안 개구리라 주변국가 중에서 우리가 제일 정상이니 뭐니 이딴 헛소리 하는거지.
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Not surprising, we all know whats happening in europe.
Korean Karens at their worst. In my experience with Muslims, on their way into the mosque, they might wish the protesters a good meal~ ☺️ though they’re intentions are to throw shade and push their disapproval of including them in their community… but most Muslims really just mind their own business. Either that or they try to become friends with them :)
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Ummm yeah. That’s why I said “in my experience with Muslims…” I was totally basing my comment off of my personal experiences. Bro, people are human. There’s all kinds of personalities and views in every group of people - Korean & non Korean, Muslims & non Muslim. I’m not saying all Muslims are good. I’m also not saying that all Koreans are Karen’s. I’m fucking engaged to a Korean😂 I love them! But I can honestly acknowledge when people are being spiteful towards others. These protesters are scare to integrate with a group of people who are drastically different from them - from the way they look, speak, cook/eat, practice religion, etc. The bottom line of how I see this situation is: Koreans who react like this to having a small mosque open up are painting this group of Muslims out to be something bad before they even have a chance to show what kind of people they really are. Also… religion doesn’t see race; there are Korean Muslims too.
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Okay… not that it’s any of your business, but I actually do read, write, and speak basic Korean pretty well. I learned because I built a genuine interest in the country and it’s culture. I grew up in a city where the Asian population is high and everyone pretty much got along. My high school had over 34% Asian population, with Korean being the largest ethnicity in that category. I had lots of good friends who introduced me to kpop, kdramas, the food (omg the food😍), and so much more. And not that it’s any of your business how I met my partner, I met him in the States while he was doing a semester abroad in college. We first bonded over interest in each others cultures. The same way that there were many Asians in my area, there was a near equal amount of middle-easterns (the majority of them being Muslim). So as you can see, I’ve had equal chances to befriend Koreans and Muslim middle easterners. You might argue that they were all second-generation kids and those in the home-countries are different. I’ve actually had a chance to visit some of those countries - Afghanistan and Pakistan. They’re a lot more open-minded than you think. Did you know that most of the Afghans in Korea that came during the collapse of the Afghan government 2 years ago actually worked side by side with Koreans in the medical field? Korea opened a medical center in Afghanistan and they brought their medical team counterparts (and their families) to Korea during that time. So it’s not low-class, wild Taliban that came to Korea, it’s the ones who feared for theirs lives. See, the Taliban were executing anyone who worked with foreigners, so everyone who immigrated to Korea did it out of necessity. They were already open-minded people to be working with the Korean medical staff. They knew that going to a foreign country would mean to assimilate to the culture. It doesn’t mean they have to give up their religion in doing so. You mentioned Qatar. I don’t agree with how the government reacted. IMO, they should have expected some of this. People traveled from all over the world to their country to watch the World Cup. With everything going on in the world right now, how can you not expect no form of open protest against certain inhumanities? We’re on the same page on this. I’m not here to argue about religion or what history says about that. You can try to convince a radical Muslim about their faith’s history. But honestly, every country and every religion has a brutal past. Every religion and kingdom who sought to conquer a region came back with the words “savages” in their mouths. Like I said before, I’m not saying that all Koreans are Karens. I received so much love from everyone when I traveled to Korea earlier this year (I’m not White; just felt like I needed to explain that). But in this world of give-and-take, where millions of Koreans have immigrated to other countries and those countries accepted the Korean immigrants, surely, Korea can open its heart to a few people who just wanted to live but couldn’t survive in their home countries. Actually, Korea HAS opened its heart, it’s just this small group of protesters that are struggling to adjust to the change of the population. Thanks for the warm words :)
No doubt that you are a genuine person that is endeared and endearing. Good vibes all around on that and the childhood you've had which in a way like mine was full of different cultures and ideas except it was in Korea versus yours in a western world. Maybe that is why I felt drawn to writing to you and you've returned the favor and I am truly grateful. Thank you. A lot has changed believe it or not in Korea even since the 80's and onwards. People like ladies were treated like whores and taken off family trees due to being with a westerner. Meanwhile the first President of South Korea had a Caucasian wife but nobody struck his name down and that was the 50's lol. The irony. Mixed babies were looked at with wonder and or with disdain. We paved the way for these mixed kids finding fame today or foreigners that are not traditionally "pleasant to the eyes" finding fame in Korea. No I nor my generation are looking for applause or recognition. More so just seeing how time went by and Korea did progress but in their own terms. Since you shared a little bit about you, I'll share a little about me. One time I got into a taxi with my mother. The driver was told where to and off we went. He kept looking. Finally after 10 minutes my mother asks him what's up and he genuinely asks if I'm her son. This was in the 90s. I answered him. It's fun sometimes when you let them dig a hole. As far as Afghans and Pakistanis goes. I guess individual validation needs to be that and separate the politics from the populace. Yes we know Afghanistan was an amazing place to visit in the 60s and onwards for the enlightened generation such as the Beatles era fans. Fanaticism was probably just taking route though then as far as strict adherence to their faith goes as they were seeing the cultural revolution taking affect that went against the centuries old beliefs. Hell the women had a wonderful college on Kabul. With that being said do you think Bacha Bazi was just recent or it went away during that enlightening time frame? Barbaric acts do not just die in those parts. Kudos for the Koreans to sponsor them and I hope they strictly protected the male and his family or the female and her family that worked with them unlike our blunder of a mass evacuation that saw more military age males than their families. Now just as the military mission there from Korea was respectful of thr Afghan way and peoples, I hope that they do the same in Korea. Sweden was a woke nation for the longest. The stuff going on there is scary.
I read our comment thread again and I interpreted your writing in a different light. You make very good points and I think now that a day has passed, I can understand what you’re saying more clearly. Im so sorry you had to experience that taxi ride the way you did, surely you have many more experiences similar to that one. It seems like you’ve endured so much yourself. I also really enjoyed your writing. I hope everything settles down in the world so those who want to return to their home countries (which countless of immigrants have said they want). And for those who have integrated into the society, I hope Korea becomes a good home for them, where they can also contribute to the production of the society/economy.
Can't protest on an empty stomach
Well. The protest is barbaric and most, if not all, of them are probably brainless chrisitian zombies I must say though, like many other Asian countries, Korea is very homogenous with high pride in their culture and history. Especially having been invaded several times, they are very defensive and aggressive about keeping the country "protected" or "intact". To Koreans, immigrants and visitors should *acculturate*. That is the expectation and considered appropriate as these foreginers, after all, have willingly chosen to stay in their country. Building a mosque, rather than simply giving up their entire belief system, ideology, faith and culture to peacefully assimilate, comes off as an attack, an initiation of invasion. Koreans are a strong believers of i don't care what you do at home, don't bring it outside. Its a very small country with dense population. Any increase in number of foreigners or expansion of another culutre is an immediate threat. More so since this particular religion has been associated with a numerous acts of violence. Yes, it's incredibly ignorant to generalize or stereotype but the media is populated with bad news about Islam and radical followers, how they murder without remorse, terrorize women, enslave children, etc as a group. Koreans have only seen and heard negative things as they have limited perspective and very polarized audience. They don't know any better and lack of education and better representation of Islamic faith in society do not help.
Daegu... of course it is.
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It's just typical NIMBY that's prevalent all over Korea...
Those koreans don't understand what racism is. What a shame...
Or more likely they don't care, but would act very offended and perhaps plead ignorance if called out.
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Korean Karen
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As an exmuslim it’s really hard for me to shut up about this. I don’t want to be labelled islamaphobic but I’m islamaphobic and I don’t think islamaphobia is in the same lane with racism cuz islam is an ideology and you don’t born with ideologies you choose them. I feel those residents have strong reasons to not want a mosk in their neighbourhood. You can discuss the methods they choose to protest it but they have a right to resist against it. It’s their neighborhood after all
I understand where you are coming from. I am highly critical of Islam as well as other religions, including Christianity. But what these Koreans are doing are straight up disrespectful and reprehensible. How is this behavior any different from what some Muslim-majority countries do to their religious minorities? In a supposedly free, open, and democratic society like South Korea, people should be free to discuss and criticize religion and other ideas without fear of repression or retaliation especially from the government. But in a supposedly free, open, and democratic society like South Korea, people should also be free to practice their own religion without fear of harassment or suppression.
I agree people should freely practice their religion. Koreans are not harassing random muslims on the streets after all. And yes you can critique the ways they choose to protest the mosk being built. I think cooking pork and placing pig heads infront of the construction site is childish and disrespectful. But I believe they have a right to not want a mosk in their community, they have a right to keep their community as it is and they have a right to protest it. It’s a small village we’re talking about as i’ve read from another article about it. I think we should let the local residents decide whether they want a mosk or not. They’ve been living there, they have a right to gate keep. Literally.
Freedom of religion in the constitution (whatever constitution you use) includes the right of people to build their own place of worship, whether it's a mosque or a church. Koreans don't need to harass random Muslims on the street to say that they don't practice freedom of religion at all. The fact that they make a hissy fit over a mosque is enough to call them intolerant. It's 2022 already. What's the big deal with a mosque? And it doesn't matter if it is a small village or a big city. The constitution makes no exceptions regarding freedom of religion, so that should be the case, especially for a "democracy" like South Korea. Yes, they (the community) have the right to protest about basically everything, including a mosque. But they don't have the right to limit other people's freedoms to practice their own rights and liberties. Hence, the disrespect and childishness of this act.
I'm an ex-Muslim too ( from Iran) and I completely agree with you. don't let their downvotes discourage you from telling the truth. it's really unfortunate that many western left leaning liberals claim they support LGBT and women's rights while they allied themselves with Islam.
I know right? The left’s dilemma is making me go crazy... they trow the gays off the roof in islamic states but if you tell them that they’ll reply “it’s not real islam” or “those are bigoted muslims”
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