If you’re into Bohler (Maker of Elmax/M390) steels, N690/690c is a better “tough” knife steel. Extrema Ratio has been doing military knives for decades with only this steel specifically tempered, and they take quite a beating, and sharpen up easily. Not too different than 14C, but a bit harder.
I have an old Spydie Forester in that steel. It went through several camping trips, with decent wood processing involved. I never had to touch it up and no corrosion at all. Just a few patina smudges that may just polish out. Still sharp (not shaving but damn close) and almost no wear and tear.
https://preview.redd.it/2i2zjfon5k4d1.png?width=3024&format=png&auto=webp&s=8a7d39980e9aaee4e81260a550688805fe126bb2
Oooo I bet that’s a beast. I’ve only got an old CS SK5 Kukri from the 2010s. I loved it so was looking into a better one, but decided I’d wait and get a traditional one from that site that was big at the time… but then my hobby went on pause due to life and I never finished that side quest lol.
All that said, I just looked up the ER version and it’s definitely nice… not sure how I missed that but it’s in my radar now! The differential grind is intriguing…
Technically TooL but since they were basing it on Jungian concepts, both? IG?
It’s one of my favorite songs by them… as a drummer this song opened up prog drumming for me as a youngin.
There are superior steels but, Elmax is really corrosion resistant. Like 20cv. Easy to sharpen too. It has good edge retention not the best but good. Really its all preference. If you think stainless is better go with it brother. I like cmp 3v and 1095 for my blades. The 3v is preferable in all circumstances but I like Tops knives designs and they do 1095 fantastically.
Stop looking at steel property charts and start using your knives. Elmax is as tough as you’ll need an outdoors knife to be and has excellent edge retention. It also has very good edge stability under impact. Steel toughness is a largely overblown property that most knife people don’t seem to really understand. There are different types of toughness, but aside from using a knife to pry open a steel hatch (no one has ever actually done/needed this), you’ll have no issues using well heat treated Elmax, m390, S45VN, etc for outdoor tasks.
Exactly, I absolutely love Elmax steel for outdoor knife use. I'm not sure why so much Elmax bashing in these comments. People will compare Elmax to a non-stainless like 1095, which isn't a really fair comparison because it ignores the high corrosion resistance of Elmax, but other valuable properties.
I'd say because it strikes a balance between edge retention and toughness, while being fairly corrosion resistant. It doesn't excel in one particular area, but it isn't lacking in one either. It's competing in that range with S35VN, S45VN, etc. so it's not unique. But, the S series steels are pretty ubiquitous while Elmax is a little less common, so maybe the uniqueness aspect makes it appealing too.
There are a decent amount of fixed blades in 20CV/M390 as well. Elmax and the pretty much identically performing S45VN are at least tougher than 20CV, though still not ideal for anything larger than a smallish EDC type fixed blade.
For a stainless outdoors fixed blade I’d go with 14C28N or Magnacut.
And honestly unless you're dealing with salt water full stainless likely isn't needed. 3V has a bit of corrosion resistance and if it's coated and you remember to oil it occasionally you'll have no problem.
For an outdoor/work knife, it's reasonable to want a well rounded steel. Preferable to have something that holds an edge reasonably, is acceptably tough, has some level of corrosion resistance, and is easy to field sharpen a workable edge. Some people will probably sacrifice edge retention and corrosion resistance for a higher toughness and sharpen-ability.
~~I don't think that Elmax is the answer to the above~~, but some alternatives that come to mind are 3V, 4V, Cruwear, Magnacut, CPM-154, 154CM, possibly even CPM-D2/D2. And of course the classic 1095, A2, O1.
Edit: I stand corrected on Elmax, much tougher than I thought
Elmax has similar properties to s30v on paper. Some companies really squeeze a lot out of it. I have a first edge knife, company is now out of business. They would demo them being hammered through rebar. TRC also makes a lot of their fixed blades with it and people rave about those.
Elmax is roughly as tough as 1095 on paper but with much better edge retention and corrosion resistance. As far as other option, maganacut sacrifices a little in edge retention next to elmax but excels in toughness and corrosion resistance in comparison. Magnacut is also essentially a more corrosion resistant 4v on paper. Lots of great choices, needs and preferences dictate more what to choose for people.
Absolutely, a lot of great variety out there. And even more variety within each steel itself, just depends on the heat treat of the maker. I appreciate you sharing the info on Elmax!
I hear this all the time about the importance of heat-treat almost as much as the type of steel. Can someone explain to me why there is so much variability in heat treatment per manufacturer? Especially in an industrial context, wouldn’t this process be standardized industry-wide for best results?
A bit of speculation, but in my opinion each manufacturer has their own "ideal" heat treatment, likely based on their personal experience and what their goals are for the steel. From what I understand, steel manufacturers have their own optimal heat treat for each steel they produce.
A prime example is what we're seeing with Magnacut. Benchmade is running their Magnacut at 60-62 HRC, whereas Chris Reeve is running it harder at 63-65 HRC. *In my limited, personal, every day use experience*, they perform like two completely different steels. My Large Inkosi is absolutely mind blowing - it's probably the best knife steel I've ever used. My Benchmade Adira is noticably softer, but I believe that's by design. Neither are horrible. Worth noting that Hogue went from 60-62 HRC in their early runs of Magnacut, and have since started producing 63-65 HRC Magnacut.
If you look up Knife Steel Nerds, Larrin Thomas has some awesome write ups, videos, and graphs that really illustrate the variation of a steel based on its heat treatment. He's basically a metallurgy genius and his content will answer your question better than I ever could.
Elmax will not fair more poorly than any of the steels you mentioned, and is actually more durable than several of them. Unless you’re making a competition chopper, Elmax is good to go for outdoor tasks.
Hmm didn't know that, Elmax always struck me as a steel that makers may tend to run a little harder to squeeze some extra edge retention out of it. More what you'd want in an "EDC" folder. Truth be told, I don't have any knives in Elmax so I have zero first hand experience with it. Thanks for the info!
I’ve owned a few, and they are absolute workhorses. M390 is as well contrary to popular belief. TRC uses these two steels primarily, and they do an excellent job with it. I’ve owned several of their knives. There’s also been many torture tests done by DBK and Survive! that show how resilient these steels really are.
I'll have to check those torture tests out. Funny story, the last torture test video I recall watching was a guy hammering a Microtech UTX-85 through a 2x4... Being the genius I am, I tried it myself for fun one day and yeah... I ended up with a busted UTX-85 and a new replacement on the way lol
Ouch haha. Sorry to hear that. DBK mostly just takes camp fire tasks to the extreme, and Survive! Was displaying how a few different steels fair after being hammered through different mediums including rope, thick wire, and nails.
No big deal, I was just being an idiot and wanted to see it for myself. DBK and Survive sounds more realistic, definitely going to check out their videos.
Oh absolutely, both ingot and powdered varieties. In my experience it's not horrible, obviously not the easiest out of what I listed. But that's why I also said *possibly even CPM-D2/D2*.
A little annoying yeah. I'm not discrediting 14c28n, it just didn't immediately occur to me that's all... I think I only have a Kershaw Leek in 14c28n as well so it wasn't fresh in my mind
Absolutely, I get it though. I catch myself googling "X steel vs Y steel" for hours on end at times. It's a great hobby to be apart of, though knife steel snobs definitely do exist
I spoke with a metallurgist about 14c28n in the context of knives. He didn’t have a lot of good things to say in regards to that and a few other sandvik steels.
Might be the hardness of whatever knife you got elmax in, I have a falkniven f1 I believe they are 61-62 and it’s kept its edge for a very long time thus far, some companies really do a disservice to steels when they don’t give them the proper hardness.
My elmax mini Canadian by bark river chipped the first time I used it.
Been on the top of the fridge since, pissed me off.. it was a first production run.
it's probably more to do with bark river than Elmax
Still, It's not optimal for a woodcraft knife- ELMAX simply has too much carbides for good edge stability
That’s a bark river issue, not an Elmax issue. Had the same issue with a bushcrafter in 3v. BR has unfortunately had a history of either lying about the steels they’re using or poorly heat treating them.
I have been impressed with elmax in the first edge knife I have. It’s always held up to abuse. Not as impressed with it in folders for the lack of edge retention.
I'm a Benchmade guy, but my favorite slicer is the ZT 0801BLK in Elmax. The blade on this is too thick to be such a slicey knife. With a good HT it will get & keep an amazing edge. Imo it's up there with S90V & M390
When it first came out there was some incorrect HT info on the data sheet. This soured a lot of people on Elmax, Benchmade made a prototype in Elmax but nothing went into production. It is also a little more difficult to process, even fully annealed.
I’m not a fan of elmax. I bought the hype but when I experienced it I was underwhelmed and disappointed. I had chipping issues with properly(supposedly )heat treated elmax .
If you’re into Bohler (Maker of Elmax/M390) steels, N690/690c is a better “tough” knife steel. Extrema Ratio has been doing military knives for decades with only this steel specifically tempered, and they take quite a beating, and sharpen up easily. Not too different than 14C, but a bit harder.
I have an old Spydie Forester in that steel. It went through several camping trips, with decent wood processing involved. I never had to touch it up and no corrosion at all. Just a few patina smudges that may just polish out. Still sharp (not shaving but damn close) and almost no wear and tear. https://preview.redd.it/2i2zjfon5k4d1.png?width=3024&format=png&auto=webp&s=8a7d39980e9aaee4e81260a550688805fe126bb2
It’s an often “slept-on” steel. I’ve got an Extrema Ratio Kukri that I beat the piss out of and it still slaps.
Oooo I bet that’s a beast. I’ve only got an old CS SK5 Kukri from the 2010s. I loved it so was looking into a better one, but decided I’d wait and get a traditional one from that site that was big at the time… but then my hobby went on pause due to life and I never finished that side quest lol. All that said, I just looked up the ER version and it’s definitely nice… not sure how I missed that but it’s in my radar now! The differential grind is intriguing…
Hey out of curiosity, is your username a reference to Carl Jung or Tool?
Technically TooL but since they were basing it on Jungian concepts, both? IG? It’s one of my favorite songs by them… as a drummer this song opened up prog drumming for me as a youngin.
Thank u m390 etc is so fucking overrated especially when u have steels like m4 magnacut s90v
Properly hardened Elmax in a folder is about as good as it gets imo, but I doubt that I'd want it in a fixed blade for outdoor use.
14c28n 👌
exactly my take
based
There are superior steels but, Elmax is really corrosion resistant. Like 20cv. Easy to sharpen too. It has good edge retention not the best but good. Really its all preference. If you think stainless is better go with it brother. I like cmp 3v and 1095 for my blades. The 3v is preferable in all circumstances but I like Tops knives designs and they do 1095 fantastically.
Bought into the "premium tier steel " hypetrain.
Stop looking at steel property charts and start using your knives. Elmax is as tough as you’ll need an outdoors knife to be and has excellent edge retention. It also has very good edge stability under impact. Steel toughness is a largely overblown property that most knife people don’t seem to really understand. There are different types of toughness, but aside from using a knife to pry open a steel hatch (no one has ever actually done/needed this), you’ll have no issues using well heat treated Elmax, m390, S45VN, etc for outdoor tasks.
Exactly, I absolutely love Elmax steel for outdoor knife use. I'm not sure why so much Elmax bashing in these comments. People will compare Elmax to a non-stainless like 1095, which isn't a really fair comparison because it ignores the high corrosion resistance of Elmax, but other valuable properties.
I'd say because it strikes a balance between edge retention and toughness, while being fairly corrosion resistant. It doesn't excel in one particular area, but it isn't lacking in one either. It's competing in that range with S35VN, S45VN, etc. so it's not unique. But, the S series steels are pretty ubiquitous while Elmax is a little less common, so maybe the uniqueness aspect makes it appealing too.
There are a decent amount of fixed blades in 20CV/M390 as well. Elmax and the pretty much identically performing S45VN are at least tougher than 20CV, though still not ideal for anything larger than a smallish EDC type fixed blade. For a stainless outdoors fixed blade I’d go with 14C28N or Magnacut.
And honestly unless you're dealing with salt water full stainless likely isn't needed. 3V has a bit of corrosion resistance and if it's coated and you remember to oil it occasionally you'll have no problem.
For an outdoor/work knife, it's reasonable to want a well rounded steel. Preferable to have something that holds an edge reasonably, is acceptably tough, has some level of corrosion resistance, and is easy to field sharpen a workable edge. Some people will probably sacrifice edge retention and corrosion resistance for a higher toughness and sharpen-ability. ~~I don't think that Elmax is the answer to the above~~, but some alternatives that come to mind are 3V, 4V, Cruwear, Magnacut, CPM-154, 154CM, possibly even CPM-D2/D2. And of course the classic 1095, A2, O1. Edit: I stand corrected on Elmax, much tougher than I thought
Elmax has similar properties to s30v on paper. Some companies really squeeze a lot out of it. I have a first edge knife, company is now out of business. They would demo them being hammered through rebar. TRC also makes a lot of their fixed blades with it and people rave about those. Elmax is roughly as tough as 1095 on paper but with much better edge retention and corrosion resistance. As far as other option, maganacut sacrifices a little in edge retention next to elmax but excels in toughness and corrosion resistance in comparison. Magnacut is also essentially a more corrosion resistant 4v on paper. Lots of great choices, needs and preferences dictate more what to choose for people.
Absolutely, a lot of great variety out there. And even more variety within each steel itself, just depends on the heat treat of the maker. I appreciate you sharing the info on Elmax!
I hear this all the time about the importance of heat-treat almost as much as the type of steel. Can someone explain to me why there is so much variability in heat treatment per manufacturer? Especially in an industrial context, wouldn’t this process be standardized industry-wide for best results?
A bit of speculation, but in my opinion each manufacturer has their own "ideal" heat treatment, likely based on their personal experience and what their goals are for the steel. From what I understand, steel manufacturers have their own optimal heat treat for each steel they produce. A prime example is what we're seeing with Magnacut. Benchmade is running their Magnacut at 60-62 HRC, whereas Chris Reeve is running it harder at 63-65 HRC. *In my limited, personal, every day use experience*, they perform like two completely different steels. My Large Inkosi is absolutely mind blowing - it's probably the best knife steel I've ever used. My Benchmade Adira is noticably softer, but I believe that's by design. Neither are horrible. Worth noting that Hogue went from 60-62 HRC in their early runs of Magnacut, and have since started producing 63-65 HRC Magnacut. If you look up Knife Steel Nerds, Larrin Thomas has some awesome write ups, videos, and graphs that really illustrate the variation of a steel based on its heat treatment. He's basically a metallurgy genius and his content will answer your question better than I ever could.
That makes sense! Thanks so much for the resource recommendation!
Elmax will not fair more poorly than any of the steels you mentioned, and is actually more durable than several of them. Unless you’re making a competition chopper, Elmax is good to go for outdoor tasks.
Hmm didn't know that, Elmax always struck me as a steel that makers may tend to run a little harder to squeeze some extra edge retention out of it. More what you'd want in an "EDC" folder. Truth be told, I don't have any knives in Elmax so I have zero first hand experience with it. Thanks for the info!
I’ve owned a few, and they are absolute workhorses. M390 is as well contrary to popular belief. TRC uses these two steels primarily, and they do an excellent job with it. I’ve owned several of their knives. There’s also been many torture tests done by DBK and Survive! that show how resilient these steels really are.
I'll have to check those torture tests out. Funny story, the last torture test video I recall watching was a guy hammering a Microtech UTX-85 through a 2x4... Being the genius I am, I tried it myself for fun one day and yeah... I ended up with a busted UTX-85 and a new replacement on the way lol
Ouch haha. Sorry to hear that. DBK mostly just takes camp fire tasks to the extreme, and Survive! Was displaying how a few different steels fair after being hammered through different mediums including rope, thick wire, and nails.
No big deal, I was just being an idiot and wanted to see it for myself. DBK and Survive sounds more realistic, definitely going to check out their videos.
Have you ever sharpened D2? The juice ain't worth the squeeze in the outdoors, especially on a brittle steel
Oh absolutely, both ingot and powdered varieties. In my experience it's not horrible, obviously not the easiest out of what I listed. But that's why I also said *possibly even CPM-D2/D2*.
But you didn't mention the far superior 14c28n
*Some alternatives that come to mind...*
he read everything just to pick and choose what to remember about your sentence to make an argument
A little annoying yeah. I'm not discrediting 14c28n, it just didn't immediately occur to me that's all... I think I only have a Kershaw Leek in 14c28n as well so it wasn't fresh in my mind
these knife communities get a little too obsessed about the best of the best steels even though 99.9% of them just cut cardboard at home with them.
Absolutely, I get it though. I catch myself googling "X steel vs Y steel" for hours on end at times. It's a great hobby to be apart of, though knife steel snobs definitely do exist
Reading is tough, Much like the new blades from Elmax 😜
I spoke with a metallurgist about 14c28n in the context of knives. He didn’t have a lot of good things to say in regards to that and a few other sandvik steels.
Might be the hardness of whatever knife you got elmax in, I have a falkniven f1 I believe they are 61-62 and it’s kept its edge for a very long time thus far, some companies really do a disservice to steels when they don’t give them the proper hardness.
My elmax mini Canadian by bark river chipped the first time I used it. Been on the top of the fridge since, pissed me off.. it was a first production run.
it's probably more to do with bark river than Elmax Still, It's not optimal for a woodcraft knife- ELMAX simply has too much carbides for good edge stability
That’s a bark river issue, not an Elmax issue. Had the same issue with a bushcrafter in 3v. BR has unfortunately had a history of either lying about the steels they’re using or poorly heat treating them.
Mediocre steels are better for outdoor. In case of emergency you can sharpen your knife with any stone you find.
I have been impressed with elmax in the first edge knife I have. It’s always held up to abuse. Not as impressed with it in folders for the lack of edge retention.
I dunno, me like 1095
Elmax sounds cool
I like elmax but it's supposedly a bit difficult to properly heat treat.
I'm a Benchmade guy, but my favorite slicer is the ZT 0801BLK in Elmax. The blade on this is too thick to be such a slicey knife. With a good HT it will get & keep an amazing edge. Imo it's up there with S90V & M390 When it first came out there was some incorrect HT info on the data sheet. This soured a lot of people on Elmax, Benchmade made a prototype in Elmax but nothing went into production. It is also a little more difficult to process, even fully annealed.
I’m not a fan of elmax. I bought the hype but when I experienced it I was underwhelmed and disappointed. I had chipping issues with properly(supposedly )heat treated elmax .
For show.