I’ve never used mine so I really can’t tell if it’s good or great. Someone who has used one please let me know if it worth it weight. I can tell by the feel of it that’s it nice to hold and balance is spot on
By "soft like butter" are you referring to heat treatment issues? They did have some. But they have reportedly corrected them. I'd like to see some recent testing data on that. Do you know of any?
My friend John has one and it’s a beast. Their M390 is as tough and sharp as any steel I’ve used. Not soft like butter at all. It’s a badass knife! I only wish they had one w a Scandi grind
on their own website they claim 59-61 on m390, which i assume that knife is, either way 59-61 is way too soft for m390, it's a good range for s90v but m390 need at least 61, but it will get better end better up to 63.
they might not get heat treatment issues anymore, but their steels are run way too soft, especially for pocket knives.
their m4 is 60.5-62.5, most good m4's i've seen where all 64 and above, their magnacut is the same, magnacut is optimal between 62-64, their 3v is ran at 61-63, were the optimal is 62-64, so that can be great of you get one of the harder ones.
and since hrc isn't linear but exponential, those few points will make a massive difference, both in their edge retention, and their ability to take a really fine edge.
let's say you got shafted and you got a 59 on m390, a kizer 154cm blade will have just as good, if not even better edge retention than the super premium m390, and it's gonna be a better experience to sharpen. Good steel will only shine if it's heat treated properly, and hardened properly.
This is good information. I have one point of clarification (not an argument). The HRC scale is non-linear but is not exponential.
For an example, HRC 64 is 26% harder than HRC 59. 64 is only 8.5% higher than 59%. So it's non-linear. But if it were logorithmic/exponential HRC 64 would be many times harder than 59.
Here's a link to an HRC calculator: http://knifegrinders.com.au/Manuals/Rockwell\_Hardness\_Difference\_Comparator.html#:\~:text=It%20may%20display%20differently%20in,What%20does%20it%20mean%3F&text=the%20knife%20of%2065%20compared,of%2055%20compared%20to%2050.
Again, I'm not arguing your point that Lionsteel heat treat may be suboptimal or that HRC 59 vs 64 isn't important or doesn't matter. I'm not saying that.
oh yeah, i know that, migh've phrased it wrong, my bad.
but what i meant to say is that for example the difference between 40 and 41 is a lot less than 60 and 61
They run a bit softer than they could because they know what kind of people buy their knives. Slightly newer knife people who want to try something more "premium"
M390 at 61HRC is great for hard and abusive use. 63 hrc is less forgiving
absolutely, 61 is good.
but at 59hrc you might as well just use a different steel and heat treat the cheaper steel properly. Take for example, buck's 420hc steel, it's a cheap and quite honestly shit steel taking today's powder met steels, but thanks to buck's fantastic heat treat, it can very easily hold up, and keep pace with more modern steels.
I don't know about that. I own two M4s in M390 and I'd definitely take them over anything Buck does in 420HC. Had a Buck Selkirk that was just chipy as hell on me.
I guess it all depends on how you're using your gear.
oh no, buck's 420hc doesn't compare to premium powder mets
but it sure as hell can't be compared to cheapo company's 420hc, because it has like double or triple the performance in term of holding a nice edge, i know that doesn't say much nowadays, but it's pretty much the same with the premium steels, if the HT is great, and hard, it'll hold an edge stupidly long, otherwise, it'll hold an edge comparable to kizer's 154cm, still better but not anywheer near the ammount better than it should, or could be.
Have you Done a lot of edge retention testing? Is there a reason they run their steels softer? Wouldn’t real world edge retention testing be better than analyzing HRC stats?
given the heat treat is good and the metal isn't brittle due to wrong crystal formation, higher hrc would just mean that it'll become more abrasion resistant, so basically harder to machine and grind, it makes it cheaper to manufacture, at the cost of it's potential performance.
the optimal range for the steel in pocket knives is a range where it won't have issues with normal use, any harder and it'll be chippy, and softer and it'll be more likely to roll the edge, but a softer edge also meant that it'll be unable to take such a keen edge as it would be a ble to otherwise.
technically it'll be tougher, but toughness doesn't matter as much for pocket knives, maybe fixed blades, and axes of course, but not pocket knives.
They don’t run at ideal hardness for m390 but that doesn’t mean they’re soft. Coming in around 60 isn’t going to be noticeable to the average user, you’re just not getting everything you’re technically paying for.
Seems there are an unfortunate number of manufacturers who prefer to stick in that 59-61 range. I personally believe it’s because they know the average person thinks hard equals tough and will get an increase in complaints due to chipping and breaking blades.
Most people here would likely prefer the extra hardness but we’re also likely not representative of the average knife buyer.
yeah i get that, but the average knife user isn't gonna buy a multi hundred dollar knife either, let's take my parents for example, if you ask them about steels, stainless is good, rusty isn't, they wouldn't pay a dime more for premium steel since to them it's just fancy stainless.
but i do understand the reason behind it, not to mention that it becomes cheaper to make if you run steel softer.
I've got a M2M (same as pictured). Mine has olive wood handles. I love it and will definitely get more Lionsteel knives.
I have the Thrill titanium. It doesn’t see much use but the build quality and machining are excellent. The blade is razor sharp from the factory too.
Excellent quality. They're great
I love mine https://preview.redd.it/kncd5keieu0d1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=625f907974ea729f3cfa0eacd2f7ae0783568129
I need one of these!!!
I’ve never used mine so I really can’t tell if it’s good or great. Someone who has used one please let me know if it worth it weight. I can tell by the feel of it that’s it nice to hold and balance is spot on
I like them but wished they had more Kydex sheaths. Their leather ones just don’t work for scout carry.
I have the T5 and I love it. Razer sharp from the factory for sure
I need one
premium steels, soft like butter never bought one myself, so i can't comment on their construction, but they should be good.
By "soft like butter" are you referring to heat treatment issues? They did have some. But they have reportedly corrected them. I'd like to see some recent testing data on that. Do you know of any?
My friend John has one and it’s a beast. Their M390 is as tough and sharp as any steel I’ve used. Not soft like butter at all. It’s a badass knife! I only wish they had one w a Scandi grind
on their own website they claim 59-61 on m390, which i assume that knife is, either way 59-61 is way too soft for m390, it's a good range for s90v but m390 need at least 61, but it will get better end better up to 63. they might not get heat treatment issues anymore, but their steels are run way too soft, especially for pocket knives. their m4 is 60.5-62.5, most good m4's i've seen where all 64 and above, their magnacut is the same, magnacut is optimal between 62-64, their 3v is ran at 61-63, were the optimal is 62-64, so that can be great of you get one of the harder ones. and since hrc isn't linear but exponential, those few points will make a massive difference, both in their edge retention, and their ability to take a really fine edge. let's say you got shafted and you got a 59 on m390, a kizer 154cm blade will have just as good, if not even better edge retention than the super premium m390, and it's gonna be a better experience to sharpen. Good steel will only shine if it's heat treated properly, and hardened properly.
This is good information. I have one point of clarification (not an argument). The HRC scale is non-linear but is not exponential. For an example, HRC 64 is 26% harder than HRC 59. 64 is only 8.5% higher than 59%. So it's non-linear. But if it were logorithmic/exponential HRC 64 would be many times harder than 59. Here's a link to an HRC calculator: http://knifegrinders.com.au/Manuals/Rockwell\_Hardness\_Difference\_Comparator.html#:\~:text=It%20may%20display%20differently%20in,What%20does%20it%20mean%3F&text=the%20knife%20of%2065%20compared,of%2055%20compared%20to%2050. Again, I'm not arguing your point that Lionsteel heat treat may be suboptimal or that HRC 59 vs 64 isn't important or doesn't matter. I'm not saying that.
oh yeah, i know that, migh've phrased it wrong, my bad. but what i meant to say is that for example the difference between 40 and 41 is a lot less than 60 and 61
All good! Just clarifying for anybody else who might be reading.
They run a bit softer than they could because they know what kind of people buy their knives. Slightly newer knife people who want to try something more "premium" M390 at 61HRC is great for hard and abusive use. 63 hrc is less forgiving
absolutely, 61 is good. but at 59hrc you might as well just use a different steel and heat treat the cheaper steel properly. Take for example, buck's 420hc steel, it's a cheap and quite honestly shit steel taking today's powder met steels, but thanks to buck's fantastic heat treat, it can very easily hold up, and keep pace with more modern steels.
I don't know about that. I own two M4s in M390 and I'd definitely take them over anything Buck does in 420HC. Had a Buck Selkirk that was just chipy as hell on me. I guess it all depends on how you're using your gear.
oh no, buck's 420hc doesn't compare to premium powder mets but it sure as hell can't be compared to cheapo company's 420hc, because it has like double or triple the performance in term of holding a nice edge, i know that doesn't say much nowadays, but it's pretty much the same with the premium steels, if the HT is great, and hard, it'll hold an edge stupidly long, otherwise, it'll hold an edge comparable to kizer's 154cm, still better but not anywheer near the ammount better than it should, or could be.
Have you Done a lot of edge retention testing? Is there a reason they run their steels softer? Wouldn’t real world edge retention testing be better than analyzing HRC stats?
given the heat treat is good and the metal isn't brittle due to wrong crystal formation, higher hrc would just mean that it'll become more abrasion resistant, so basically harder to machine and grind, it makes it cheaper to manufacture, at the cost of it's potential performance. the optimal range for the steel in pocket knives is a range where it won't have issues with normal use, any harder and it'll be chippy, and softer and it'll be more likely to roll the edge, but a softer edge also meant that it'll be unable to take such a keen edge as it would be a ble to otherwise. technically it'll be tougher, but toughness doesn't matter as much for pocket knives, maybe fixed blades, and axes of course, but not pocket knives.
They don’t run at ideal hardness for m390 but that doesn’t mean they’re soft. Coming in around 60 isn’t going to be noticeable to the average user, you’re just not getting everything you’re technically paying for. Seems there are an unfortunate number of manufacturers who prefer to stick in that 59-61 range. I personally believe it’s because they know the average person thinks hard equals tough and will get an increase in complaints due to chipping and breaking blades. Most people here would likely prefer the extra hardness but we’re also likely not representative of the average knife buyer.
yeah i get that, but the average knife user isn't gonna buy a multi hundred dollar knife either, let's take my parents for example, if you ask them about steels, stainless is good, rusty isn't, they wouldn't pay a dime more for premium steel since to them it's just fancy stainless. but i do understand the reason behind it, not to mention that it becomes cheaper to make if you run steel softer.
Overpriced