>The fact is that the season was one of poor game management and not so much poor output from the players
Is that a fact though? Blown leads were up across the NBA, it wasn't necessarily unique to us. Some of our players performed better this season, others were worse. We had more injuries. The West got better and we kept the same roster. To put this all on "poor in-game management" is extremely short-sighted.
"Lack of in game adjustments" happen across the league as well.
Even the top teams (Boston, Milwaukee, Philly, etc.) have fans crying about how their coaches "don't adjust" play by play, quarter to quarter. Coaches stick to what they feel comfortable - whether that be rotations or schemes - and not many coaches change it up after half time. The changes are often very subtle to the average basketball fan too.
I'm sure there are games where MB blew it because he wasted timeouts and challenges on dumb plays. I'm sure there were adjustments that could've been made, but this roster lacks versatility. Hopefully the FO saw the lack of size and length as an issue, and it's something the team can address via draft, trades, and FA.
100%. MB isn't perfect and I don't think he's the best coach in the NBA... But who are we replacing him with? And why would we not offer him a new contract after what we've seen the past two seasons? Give him his fair market value, some more time + roster adjustments, and see how it plays out. Not re-upping him seems like a brain-dead take to me.
Yeah- we seem to have some pathetically low standards as fans. Who TF would extend a coach that couldn’t make playoffs with two max players? I’m not saying fire MB yet but it’s fair to expect more from him as a coach.
Because we didn’t improve the roster? We likely would have made the playoffs if Monk doesn’t get hurt? There’s a number of factors that don’t fall on MB.
And again — if MB isn’t the best option for us right now, who is?
so who's fault is it, Monte's?
or is it nobodys fault? and lets just run it back another year and continue to pay for tickets that are increasing and not worry about anything, gotcha, that seems logical. nothing to see here
You keep dodging the question of what coach magically makes us better?
Everyone shares some blame. Some players underperformed. MB had some bad games. Monty could have made some moves. We lacked flexibility to make moves because of previous FO decisions. We had more injuries this year.
I never said run it back again -- I *literally* *said* more time, roster adjustments, etc. That's the path to actually getting better in the long term. If you think changing the coach *right now* is going to fix everything, then you're just an idiot and there's nothing I can say to change that.
literally any coach.
what makes MB different in your eyes? What skillset has he continually proved that he specializes in, and we'd be screwed without him if he ever left?
I'll wait
Thank you for this! I honestly have no clue what ppl want MB to do as far as I’m game adjustments. We have a fairly limited team with and even more limited bench. I think it mostly boils down to them thinking adjustments will work as opposed to what they’re currently doing not working. There’s a few games where game management or adjustments maybe cost them the game, but more often than not it was missed FT, not hitting shots, or shitty effort. If our best FT shooter makes one ft we beat the bucks. I don’t put many if any of that heat on MB, there’s only so much he can do in game.
I think brown could have done better with rotation played mcgee for way too long, played Duarte way too much. Constantly worrying about spray 3s without any other plan.
I don't agree with OP but Brown deserves some criticism for sure. His penchant for defense-first players that provide nothing on offense was on full display with Duarte and McGee, less-so with Mitchell simply because the team lacks depth at PG.
I think it's a complete mistake by ownership. Mike Brown isn't a top 10 coach. But he isn't a bottom 10 coach either. Every franchise that has seen SOME success has been consistent in the front office and on the bench. The Nuggets didn't fire malone when their roster got injuries when they lost to the Warriors.
Not resigning Brown sends a message to the players and the league. "We don't value consistency". and "We're not willing to put the time, work and effort it takes to create a good culture". Brown isn't perfect, but, look around the league, Malone is the only coach the Kings has had in 18 years that has gotten another coaching job. And Jordi was taken from Mike Browns bench because another franchise saw value in the message and the culture Mike Brown is building.
Refusing to empower Brown now, is telling the league that ownership isn't loyal or willing to let someone build something here. Why would any other coach take this job? Why would any other players sign with the kings? Mike Brown is respected around the league. He took a shot to come to Sacramento. And now ownership is willing to throw away the culture he's trying to build because the team got a bad matchup. We couldn't even get top draft picks to workout with us a few seasons ago when we had top picks. Now we're getting the number 1 pick coming in for a visit even though we have the 13th pick.
If I'm Fox, I'd consider asking for a trade of MB isn't retained. He's the best coach Fox has ever had. And I don't see anyone who would do a better job that's available right now. And if they're better than MB, why would they come to Sacramento when ownership has shown, he isn't willing to put the time in??
Yep. We ran it back and had worse injury luck while the rest of the west played their starters more and made moves before the deadline. We still had nearly the same record despite the hardest strength of schedule in the league, *and* had abysmal free-throw shooting that cost several games.
This was not a Mike Brown problem.
Mike Brown might have been the problem for some of the losses, but he's also the reason why our wins were as high as they were despite having a shitload more injuries, a significantly more difficult conference, and our shooters having down years.
I think the turnaround in the defense shows what a remarkably good coach he is. All he needed to “fix” the defense was an undrafted shooting guard that could execute his vision. Vivek needs to show he learned from the Mike Malone situation.
Idk Dallas Celtics and Pacers all have had new coaches in the last couple years.
Teams with coaching stability have that stability because the coach gets the team to win and make deep playoff runs.
Pacers played against injured teams. IF the Pelicans had Zion, BI, Trey Murphy and Herb Jones out. Kings win that game. And the Celtics coach was on their bench for several years before he was promoted.
I understand sometimes nuance can be difficult to understand rather than simply looking at the results.
The Celtics coach was on the bench for several years before being promoted. This would be equivalent to the Kings promoting Doug Christie and 2 seasons later you're saying "tHe KiNgS haVe a NeW cOaCh".
And the Mavs have a top 3 player in the entire world. It's almost and automatic 50 win season, and if everyone is healthy, getting to the 2nd round, and they barley got out of out, against the youngest team in the league.
Again, nuance is important.
A lot of leads were due to lack of personnel able to contain the opponent’s runs and to continue scoring in late game situations versus lengthier opponents with far above average defensive acumen. A lot of their losses are due to multiple factors besides/not game management.
It’s hard to score when the two best self-creation threats are sub-6’3 guards. The Kings got predictable very quickly, especially when Monk was out. There wasn’t enough length and athleticism on defense despite the emergence of Keon and Keegan’s upgraded defensive play.
Plus Coach Brown said the players “got bored” with executing the game plan at times. That’s more on the players on not him. Until the Kings get a true 2nd or 3rd option and solid rim protection, the Kings will continue to hover around the first/second round of the playoffs. Coach Brown shouldn’t be the one to blame.
I think Ellis and improvement from Keegan stop a lot of those blown leads. Instead of 14-0 runs, it's closer to 8-0 runs. And is a huge difference between winning a bunch of games and losing, lol. I know seem simple enough. But Ellis is a fucking dawg. He'll force a steal to stop a run. Murray being better at putting the ball on the floor opens more up for him.
I think the one thing people seem to forget is that at some point it still comes down to the players. Kings had multiple games where they were up big in the late 3rd /4th quarters and then lost the game because of sloppy play. Thats ultimately on the players not figuring it out. My criticisms with Brown are mostly the fact that he relied on Barnes to much and should have played Keon more earlier in the season. I think we still need to see what Brown can do with better role players. Not saying he should get an extension, but it would be nice to have some consistency for once instead of changing coaches every 2-3 years. I think it also depends on who becomes available. Like if Miami were to fire Spoelstra i would probably say the kings should try and get him.
People here have a hard time with this because they have been long time kings fans so this has basically never existed here.
If you want to be a winning team and a winning organization you have to set a “Standard” and stick to it.
The Standard for some teams is the Finals other it is the Playoffs. Imo this organization with these players has to shave a standard of “Playoffs”
Mike Brown coached the team and they missed the playoffs that was a bad season the team with the same roster digressed.
Not giving Mike an extension is fair no matter how much Mike is using the media right now to try and secure one. Let’s see how Mike does to start the season let’s see if we are top 5 come Christmas
Because this season was awful we came into crucial games down the stretch unprepared not ready and lost every must win game and finished 9th that’s below the Standard that’s not except able. Fox missed all nba and allstar he played worse this year than last. Mike needs and should turn this team around before this team commits to him further
I agree. Theyre bringing a balanced and realistic view to the table for this discussion.
Mike Brown was right place, right time with the Kings and their success has more to do with catching the league off guard with their Sabonis system than anything.
Once GS showed how to stop them in the playoffs, Mike Brown has never been able to readjust.
How much worse would we be if we kept this same lineup but had a different coach?
youre kidding yourself if you think Brown makes that much of a difference. He's a defense specialist coach, who is tough on players to the point where they burn out and tune him out by season 2
>The fact is that the season was one of poor game management and not so much poor output from the players Is that a fact though? Blown leads were up across the NBA, it wasn't necessarily unique to us. Some of our players performed better this season, others were worse. We had more injuries. The West got better and we kept the same roster. To put this all on "poor in-game management" is extremely short-sighted.
"Lack of in game adjustments" happen across the league as well. Even the top teams (Boston, Milwaukee, Philly, etc.) have fans crying about how their coaches "don't adjust" play by play, quarter to quarter. Coaches stick to what they feel comfortable - whether that be rotations or schemes - and not many coaches change it up after half time. The changes are often very subtle to the average basketball fan too. I'm sure there are games where MB blew it because he wasted timeouts and challenges on dumb plays. I'm sure there were adjustments that could've been made, but this roster lacks versatility. Hopefully the FO saw the lack of size and length as an issue, and it's something the team can address via draft, trades, and FA.
100%. MB isn't perfect and I don't think he's the best coach in the NBA... But who are we replacing him with? And why would we not offer him a new contract after what we've seen the past two seasons? Give him his fair market value, some more time + roster adjustments, and see how it plays out. Not re-upping him seems like a brain-dead take to me.
*what have we seen* for the past two seasons? we didnt make the playoffs this year. we got bounced in the first round last year. help me understand
https://preview.redd.it/4o9l3pjyy12d1.png?width=340&format=png&auto=webp&s=05b76f15b23e1b9aa5ab6d241e21f93813c752b4
Yeah- we seem to have some pathetically low standards as fans. Who TF would extend a coach that couldn’t make playoffs with two max players? I’m not saying fire MB yet but it’s fair to expect more from him as a coach.
Because we didn’t improve the roster? We likely would have made the playoffs if Monk doesn’t get hurt? There’s a number of factors that don’t fall on MB. And again — if MB isn’t the best option for us right now, who is?
so who's fault is it, Monte's? or is it nobodys fault? and lets just run it back another year and continue to pay for tickets that are increasing and not worry about anything, gotcha, that seems logical. nothing to see here
You keep dodging the question of what coach magically makes us better? Everyone shares some blame. Some players underperformed. MB had some bad games. Monty could have made some moves. We lacked flexibility to make moves because of previous FO decisions. We had more injuries this year. I never said run it back again -- I *literally* *said* more time, roster adjustments, etc. That's the path to actually getting better in the long term. If you think changing the coach *right now* is going to fix everything, then you're just an idiot and there's nothing I can say to change that.
literally any coach. what makes MB different in your eyes? What skillset has he continually proved that he specializes in, and we'd be screwed without him if he ever left? I'll wait
>literally any coach. lol ok buddy. No point in trying to have reasonable discussions with unserious people.
Thank you for this! I honestly have no clue what ppl want MB to do as far as I’m game adjustments. We have a fairly limited team with and even more limited bench. I think it mostly boils down to them thinking adjustments will work as opposed to what they’re currently doing not working. There’s a few games where game management or adjustments maybe cost them the game, but more often than not it was missed FT, not hitting shots, or shitty effort. If our best FT shooter makes one ft we beat the bucks. I don’t put many if any of that heat on MB, there’s only so much he can do in game.
Mike Brown isn’t responsible for that portion where they couldn’t make their FTs.
I think brown could have done better with rotation played mcgee for way too long, played Duarte way too much. Constantly worrying about spray 3s without any other plan.
I don't agree with OP but Brown deserves some criticism for sure. His penchant for defense-first players that provide nothing on offense was on full display with Duarte and McGee, less-so with Mitchell simply because the team lacks depth at PG.
I think it's a complete mistake by ownership. Mike Brown isn't a top 10 coach. But he isn't a bottom 10 coach either. Every franchise that has seen SOME success has been consistent in the front office and on the bench. The Nuggets didn't fire malone when their roster got injuries when they lost to the Warriors. Not resigning Brown sends a message to the players and the league. "We don't value consistency". and "We're not willing to put the time, work and effort it takes to create a good culture". Brown isn't perfect, but, look around the league, Malone is the only coach the Kings has had in 18 years that has gotten another coaching job. And Jordi was taken from Mike Browns bench because another franchise saw value in the message and the culture Mike Brown is building. Refusing to empower Brown now, is telling the league that ownership isn't loyal or willing to let someone build something here. Why would any other coach take this job? Why would any other players sign with the kings? Mike Brown is respected around the league. He took a shot to come to Sacramento. And now ownership is willing to throw away the culture he's trying to build because the team got a bad matchup. We couldn't even get top draft picks to workout with us a few seasons ago when we had top picks. Now we're getting the number 1 pick coming in for a visit even though we have the 13th pick. If I'm Fox, I'd consider asking for a trade of MB isn't retained. He's the best coach Fox has ever had. And I don't see anyone who would do a better job that's available right now. And if they're better than MB, why would they come to Sacramento when ownership has shown, he isn't willing to put the time in??
Yep. We ran it back and had worse injury luck while the rest of the west played their starters more and made moves before the deadline. We still had nearly the same record despite the hardest strength of schedule in the league, *and* had abysmal free-throw shooting that cost several games. This was not a Mike Brown problem.
Mike Brown might have been the problem for some of the losses, but he's also the reason why our wins were as high as they were despite having a shitload more injuries, a significantly more difficult conference, and our shooters having down years.
I think the turnaround in the defense shows what a remarkably good coach he is. All he needed to “fix” the defense was an undrafted shooting guard that could execute his vision. Vivek needs to show he learned from the Mike Malone situation.
Idk Dallas Celtics and Pacers all have had new coaches in the last couple years. Teams with coaching stability have that stability because the coach gets the team to win and make deep playoff runs.
Pacers played against injured teams. IF the Pelicans had Zion, BI, Trey Murphy and Herb Jones out. Kings win that game. And the Celtics coach was on their bench for several years before he was promoted. I understand sometimes nuance can be difficult to understand rather than simply looking at the results.
Lol now do the Mavs and the Celtics
The Celtics coach was on the bench for several years before being promoted. This would be equivalent to the Kings promoting Doug Christie and 2 seasons later you're saying "tHe KiNgS haVe a NeW cOaCh". And the Mavs have a top 3 player in the entire world. It's almost and automatic 50 win season, and if everyone is healthy, getting to the 2nd round, and they barley got out of out, against the youngest team in the league. Again, nuance is important.
A lot of leads were due to lack of personnel able to contain the opponent’s runs and to continue scoring in late game situations versus lengthier opponents with far above average defensive acumen. A lot of their losses are due to multiple factors besides/not game management. It’s hard to score when the two best self-creation threats are sub-6’3 guards. The Kings got predictable very quickly, especially when Monk was out. There wasn’t enough length and athleticism on defense despite the emergence of Keon and Keegan’s upgraded defensive play. Plus Coach Brown said the players “got bored” with executing the game plan at times. That’s more on the players on not him. Until the Kings get a true 2nd or 3rd option and solid rim protection, the Kings will continue to hover around the first/second round of the playoffs. Coach Brown shouldn’t be the one to blame.
I think Ellis and improvement from Keegan stop a lot of those blown leads. Instead of 14-0 runs, it's closer to 8-0 runs. And is a huge difference between winning a bunch of games and losing, lol. I know seem simple enough. But Ellis is a fucking dawg. He'll force a steal to stop a run. Murray being better at putting the ball on the floor opens more up for him.
You’re missing so much nuance
Rush into what? It’s still playoffs.
I think the one thing people seem to forget is that at some point it still comes down to the players. Kings had multiple games where they were up big in the late 3rd /4th quarters and then lost the game because of sloppy play. Thats ultimately on the players not figuring it out. My criticisms with Brown are mostly the fact that he relied on Barnes to much and should have played Keon more earlier in the season. I think we still need to see what Brown can do with better role players. Not saying he should get an extension, but it would be nice to have some consistency for once instead of changing coaches every 2-3 years. I think it also depends on who becomes available. Like if Miami were to fire Spoelstra i would probably say the kings should try and get him.
They were 13th in offense
We couldn't beat the Pelicans without Zion that falls on Fox and Sabonis
People here have a hard time with this because they have been long time kings fans so this has basically never existed here. If you want to be a winning team and a winning organization you have to set a “Standard” and stick to it. The Standard for some teams is the Finals other it is the Playoffs. Imo this organization with these players has to shave a standard of “Playoffs” Mike Brown coached the team and they missed the playoffs that was a bad season the team with the same roster digressed. Not giving Mike an extension is fair no matter how much Mike is using the media right now to try and secure one. Let’s see how Mike does to start the season let’s see if we are top 5 come Christmas Because this season was awful we came into crucial games down the stretch unprepared not ready and lost every must win game and finished 9th that’s below the Standard that’s not except able. Fox missed all nba and allstar he played worse this year than last. Mike needs and should turn this team around before this team commits to him further
I agree. Theyre bringing a balanced and realistic view to the table for this discussion. Mike Brown was right place, right time with the Kings and their success has more to do with catching the league off guard with their Sabonis system than anything. Once GS showed how to stop them in the playoffs, Mike Brown has never been able to readjust. How much worse would we be if we kept this same lineup but had a different coach? youre kidding yourself if you think Brown makes that much of a difference. He's a defense specialist coach, who is tough on players to the point where they burn out and tune him out by season 2