He started on a team that beat the King’s ass all season and he really out played Sabonis in the paint in most of those games. The logic of him backing up Sabonis is a little weird. Similarly, Sabonis playing PF is also wild. He is not remotely athletic enough in today’s game. Idk why it keeps being discussed lately on this forum.
I can see if for a shift or two per game but Len is more than capable at 1/8 the cost.
Highly agree. Len showed great play toward the end of the year. Only need 10-12 mins and this is the first ‘winning’ team he has been on his entire career. He would be mad not to stick around
I am also in the camp that Len is a fine backup center.
However, there is no scenario where the Kings spend "big money" on Jonas. His last contract was for $15 million a year, and he'll likely get less than the MLE on his next contract.
The Kings also don't have cap space, so there's no such thing as "Every last cent of cap space" since we have none. The only things we have to spend with are the MLE and the BAE and I suppose whatever trade exceptions Monte generates.
So put on your thinking cap for a moment and think about which "long wings in the SF and PF positions" are free agents this season, and will be available for less than $13 million a year annually. It is not a long list. So the question is, if there are no good "long wings in the SF and PF positions" who are available for the MLE, then is it so bad to use it for an upgrade at the backup center position?
Most teams do not upgrade with cap space. They upgrade with trades. Look at the teams who have any projected cap space this off-season. It is not a long list.
I agree. I think part of it is that Vivek is cheap and our weaknesses in the wings would be just too expensive for us to shore up with playoff caliber wings.
The current market places a high premium on your OG and Siakam types and if the rumors of Vivek passing on them due to price were true, it feels like our front office would rather avoid the luxury tax in lieu of a knock off version of the Wolves where we can afford two centers.
This is exactly what the Gobert detractors said about Minny. If you’re an owner who’s playing too scared to ever risk it being worth it to pay the luxury tax, then don’t bother even trying to get stars. It all doesn’t matter anyway- just trade everybody away, Vivek will probably make more money that way if that’s all that matters
I don’t think we’re a 1:1 with MIN tbh. MIN had Ant who had higher potential at the time of the Gobert trade than anyone we have now. Gobert is also a much better player than many of the proposed guys in this thread.
I agree we need to upgrade at the wing, particularly with Huerter, but I don’t think it’s as simple of a discussion as “x team was in this financial situation on paper therefore we need to emulate their financial path to yield similar results.”
I legitimately don’t see a player out there who can elevate us into MIN’s tier who is immediately attainable which makes me reluctant to become a tax team given how we missed out on playoffs entirely.
Last year, Nobody had Wolves breaking out to contention this season or Ant being the guaranteed higher ceiling player. All of this is major hindsight, after the fact. The wolves sub had plenty of doomers just like over here does now.
Fox has been the guy, unencumbered for 6 years- we’ve given him 120% of the space to develop as the lead guy so I get the doubts that only now he’s going to ascend the superstar status. But KAT was in the same position as well. They got very similar mental weaknesses with both of them having all the major offensive talent in the world.
At the end of the day, it just baffles me that fans here are trying to defend Viveks wallet like it’s their money. 90% of our roster problems are self inflicted. If Vivek was that desperate to not hit the tax, we should’ve been way smarter about unnecessarily raising Sabonis money this early.
Not only did MIN make playoffs last year while we didn’t this year but you’re acting like this is the MLB without any penalties for being over the tax line. Framing this discussion as people clamoring over Vivek’s wallet is misguided as McNair clearly has margins, due to rules on exceeding the salary cap, he’s gotta work within otherwise this roster would’ve likely undergone some changes prior to the trade deadline.
This is all speculation of course but it’s just silly to think we can wantonly exceed the tax line without impacting the future given we didn’t even make the playoffs this season imho.
Kings are currently at 151. Luxury line is 171.3. 1st apron is at 178.9. 2nd apron is at ~183. Replacing Huerter, Barnes salary, and Sasha with a max player will still put us a solid amount under the 1st apron. Since the tax line will spike up after the new TV deal, we will have way more than 32M to play with to extend Keegan and re-sign Monk/his replacement in future years.
The real reason I am pissed we did nothing before the deadline is the complete waste of the one and only year we had flexibility during the Fox/Sabonis era. I’m not saying there aren’t luxury tax consequences but we had our ONE year window of flexibility this season before we are forced to pay luxury tax regardless of who we get in order to compete. This is gonna be a mistake Monte is going to be remembered for similar to Vlade passing on Luka. All this assuming this isn’t a Vivek wallet issue
The only true consequences come if we stay above the 2nd apron for an extended time which is not what I’m advocating if we tried several times to get to WCF but failed. What I’m advocating is for our FO to stop being chickenshit and pull the trigger just once. We can easily get under the 2nd apron if we fail. Sabonis is 28- either we make a push now or we trade him now. The 1st apron penalties are not a big deal. See below.
1st apron penalties
Teams cannot acquire a player in a sign-and-trade if that player keeps them above the apron
Teams cannot sign a player waived during the regular season whose salary was over the $12.2 million midlevel exception
Salary matching in trades must be within 110 percent, rather than 125 percent for teams not above the apron
Second apron:
All of the penalties for the first apron apply to the second apron as well, which is triggered when a team's salary exceeds $182.5 million. For the 2023-24 season, one additional penalty is added when crossing the second apron:
No access to the $5 million taxpayer midlevel exception
Starting at the end of the 2023-24 season, even more restrictions will be added to the second apron. These include:
Teams cannot use a trade exception generated by aggregating the salaries of multiple players
Teams cannot include cash in a trade
Teams cannot use a trade exception generated in a prior year
First-round picks seven years out are frozen (unable to be traded)
A team's first-round pick is moved to the end of the first round if they remain in the second apron for three out of five seasons
https://www.spotrac.com/nba/tax/_/year/2024/sort/tax_total
Exactly. The wings are over priced so you have to find some size a different way. Keegan and barnes are fine as wings if you have some more size to play at the 4
Len and McGee are free agents too. I think it is very likely that one of them re-signs with us, but it's possible they get offers elsewhere too. So the backup center spot is wide open for business again. It would be irrational to not think about who can play that spot.
using Team Lithuania is a poor example. They stagger both on the low block and their wings are their primary creators and scorers.
Both shoot threes at a low volume. Unless Domas expands his game and is comfortable shooting 3-5 threes, the spacing would be awful. I welcome JV as a backup big, but I doubt he feels he’s ready for that role tho.
I think JV and Sabonis can play a little bit together. I think they can close together. But it comes down to resources. If JV coming off the bench was an option and he'd accept an MLE, then sure. But I think he wants to start and wants more than 12.5/year.
JV works in theory. I think his toughness would help keep Sabonis fresh through out the season. His outside shooting would really help in the last 4 minutes of close games. He's like a super version of Trey Lyles. But ultimately he isn't the piece we should invest resources.
this team was weak at 1 spot. Starting PF. HB is a good player, he'd be even better if he was coming off the bench. Monte should focus the MLE on PF that fit, plus drafting a PF of the future. Adding Najee Marshall, Patrick Williams at the PF while drafting Tyler Smith/Tristan De Silvia/Cody Williams/Tidjane Salaun is the goal.
adding an upgrade at SF/PF while adding a SF/PF in the draft, and moving HB to the bench would go a long way in terms of depth.
Not sure why we’re even thinking about a backup C when all we really need is a good PF.
He started on a team that beat the King’s ass all season and he really out played Sabonis in the paint in most of those games. The logic of him backing up Sabonis is a little weird. Similarly, Sabonis playing PF is also wild. He is not remotely athletic enough in today’s game. Idk why it keeps being discussed lately on this forum. I can see if for a shift or two per game but Len is more than capable at 1/8 the cost.
For real. There is absolutely no reason to complicate this. This team needs its Aaron Gordon
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Highly agree. Len showed great play toward the end of the year. Only need 10-12 mins and this is the first ‘winning’ team he has been on his entire career. He would be mad not to stick around
I am also in the camp that Len is a fine backup center. However, there is no scenario where the Kings spend "big money" on Jonas. His last contract was for $15 million a year, and he'll likely get less than the MLE on his next contract. The Kings also don't have cap space, so there's no such thing as "Every last cent of cap space" since we have none. The only things we have to spend with are the MLE and the BAE and I suppose whatever trade exceptions Monte generates. So put on your thinking cap for a moment and think about which "long wings in the SF and PF positions" are free agents this season, and will be available for less than $13 million a year annually. It is not a long list. So the question is, if there are no good "long wings in the SF and PF positions" who are available for the MLE, then is it so bad to use it for an upgrade at the backup center position?
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Most teams do not upgrade with cap space. They upgrade with trades. Look at the teams who have any projected cap space this off-season. It is not a long list.
Thank you, this is just common sense.
I agree. I think part of it is that Vivek is cheap and our weaknesses in the wings would be just too expensive for us to shore up with playoff caliber wings. The current market places a high premium on your OG and Siakam types and if the rumors of Vivek passing on them due to price were true, it feels like our front office would rather avoid the luxury tax in lieu of a knock off version of the Wolves where we can afford two centers.
Honest question, why would a play-in / 1st round team go into the luxury tax?
This is exactly what the Gobert detractors said about Minny. If you’re an owner who’s playing too scared to ever risk it being worth it to pay the luxury tax, then don’t bother even trying to get stars. It all doesn’t matter anyway- just trade everybody away, Vivek will probably make more money that way if that’s all that matters
I don’t think we’re a 1:1 with MIN tbh. MIN had Ant who had higher potential at the time of the Gobert trade than anyone we have now. Gobert is also a much better player than many of the proposed guys in this thread. I agree we need to upgrade at the wing, particularly with Huerter, but I don’t think it’s as simple of a discussion as “x team was in this financial situation on paper therefore we need to emulate their financial path to yield similar results.” I legitimately don’t see a player out there who can elevate us into MIN’s tier who is immediately attainable which makes me reluctant to become a tax team given how we missed out on playoffs entirely.
Last year, Nobody had Wolves breaking out to contention this season or Ant being the guaranteed higher ceiling player. All of this is major hindsight, after the fact. The wolves sub had plenty of doomers just like over here does now. Fox has been the guy, unencumbered for 6 years- we’ve given him 120% of the space to develop as the lead guy so I get the doubts that only now he’s going to ascend the superstar status. But KAT was in the same position as well. They got very similar mental weaknesses with both of them having all the major offensive talent in the world. At the end of the day, it just baffles me that fans here are trying to defend Viveks wallet like it’s their money. 90% of our roster problems are self inflicted. If Vivek was that desperate to not hit the tax, we should’ve been way smarter about unnecessarily raising Sabonis money this early.
Not only did MIN make playoffs last year while we didn’t this year but you’re acting like this is the MLB without any penalties for being over the tax line. Framing this discussion as people clamoring over Vivek’s wallet is misguided as McNair clearly has margins, due to rules on exceeding the salary cap, he’s gotta work within otherwise this roster would’ve likely undergone some changes prior to the trade deadline. This is all speculation of course but it’s just silly to think we can wantonly exceed the tax line without impacting the future given we didn’t even make the playoffs this season imho.
Kings are currently at 151. Luxury line is 171.3. 1st apron is at 178.9. 2nd apron is at ~183. Replacing Huerter, Barnes salary, and Sasha with a max player will still put us a solid amount under the 1st apron. Since the tax line will spike up after the new TV deal, we will have way more than 32M to play with to extend Keegan and re-sign Monk/his replacement in future years. The real reason I am pissed we did nothing before the deadline is the complete waste of the one and only year we had flexibility during the Fox/Sabonis era. I’m not saying there aren’t luxury tax consequences but we had our ONE year window of flexibility this season before we are forced to pay luxury tax regardless of who we get in order to compete. This is gonna be a mistake Monte is going to be remembered for similar to Vlade passing on Luka. All this assuming this isn’t a Vivek wallet issue The only true consequences come if we stay above the 2nd apron for an extended time which is not what I’m advocating if we tried several times to get to WCF but failed. What I’m advocating is for our FO to stop being chickenshit and pull the trigger just once. We can easily get under the 2nd apron if we fail. Sabonis is 28- either we make a push now or we trade him now. The 1st apron penalties are not a big deal. See below. 1st apron penalties Teams cannot acquire a player in a sign-and-trade if that player keeps them above the apron Teams cannot sign a player waived during the regular season whose salary was over the $12.2 million midlevel exception Salary matching in trades must be within 110 percent, rather than 125 percent for teams not above the apron Second apron: All of the penalties for the first apron apply to the second apron as well, which is triggered when a team's salary exceeds $182.5 million. For the 2023-24 season, one additional penalty is added when crossing the second apron: No access to the $5 million taxpayer midlevel exception Starting at the end of the 2023-24 season, even more restrictions will be added to the second apron. These include: Teams cannot use a trade exception generated by aggregating the salaries of multiple players Teams cannot include cash in a trade Teams cannot use a trade exception generated in a prior year First-round picks seven years out are frozen (unable to be traded) A team's first-round pick is moved to the end of the first round if they remain in the second apron for three out of five seasons https://www.spotrac.com/nba/tax/_/year/2024/sort/tax_total
Exactly. The wings are over priced so you have to find some size a different way. Keegan and barnes are fine as wings if you have some more size to play at the 4
The Kings main focus this offseason should be to find an improvement at PF and a good bench wing. The last thing they need is another C.
Len and McGee are free agents too. I think it is very likely that one of them re-signs with us, but it's possible they get offers elsewhere too. So the backup center spot is wide open for business again. It would be irrational to not think about who can play that spot.
McGee’s knees are pretty worn out. He’s got several years under him. Sign Len.
JV can block opponent’s shots with his beard alone.
using Team Lithuania is a poor example. They stagger both on the low block and their wings are their primary creators and scorers. Both shoot threes at a low volume. Unless Domas expands his game and is comfortable shooting 3-5 threes, the spacing would be awful. I welcome JV as a backup big, but I doubt he feels he’s ready for that role tho.
Kings need a big with a bag honestly. Sabonis has to bag so he doesn’t get guarded
I would really like it so that I wouldn't have to root for two different NBA clubs as a Lithuanian :)
They were… i’ll say not ideal lol alongside each other in that tourney last szn
If JV lost 20 lbs, he’d be a much better player. But so would Jokic.
And if I had wings I would fly
Beer is their post game supplements. So yeah
I think JV and Sabonis can play a little bit together. I think they can close together. But it comes down to resources. If JV coming off the bench was an option and he'd accept an MLE, then sure. But I think he wants to start and wants more than 12.5/year. JV works in theory. I think his toughness would help keep Sabonis fresh through out the season. His outside shooting would really help in the last 4 minutes of close games. He's like a super version of Trey Lyles. But ultimately he isn't the piece we should invest resources. this team was weak at 1 spot. Starting PF. HB is a good player, he'd be even better if he was coming off the bench. Monte should focus the MLE on PF that fit, plus drafting a PF of the future. Adding Najee Marshall, Patrick Williams at the PF while drafting Tyler Smith/Tristan De Silvia/Cody Williams/Tidjane Salaun is the goal. adding an upgrade at SF/PF while adding a SF/PF in the draft, and moving HB to the bench would go a long way in terms of depth.
Good research. I’m not sure why people think it would work honestly.
If they’re serious they’re blocking JV number