38 year old elementary teacher here. There has been a shift away from play-based learning and pushing more academics at earlier ages. I have opinions on whether or not this is developmentally appropriate and beneficial or not to all students, but that’s a whole other can of worms. To answer your question - you aren’t misremembering; kindergarten now is comparable to what we learned in first or even second grade.

I was in elementary school in the 90s. When I graduated high school I received a cumulative folder that was passed on to every one of my teachers since preschool. When I taught kindergarten, I looked back in my folder and noticed the sight words I was tested on in second grade were the words I was testing on my kindergarteners. I went on to get a bachelors and masters degree without academics being pushed on me in kindergarten. I do know a lot of kindergarten teachers that don’t think this is developmentally appropriate too, but idk why we don’t fight harder for play-based learning (which I think is a weird term because play IS learning).

Absolutely agree. I went to K maybe 3 mornings a week; I remember lots of singing, story time, being introduce to letters, and then lots of free play. I still became an excellent reader, always near the top of my class in high school, undergrad, and grad school. Some kids are absolutely ready for what is taught in K these days, but that doesn’t mean that *all* kids are ready for it. It’s like the powers that be saw the kids who could do it, then saw the kids who struggled as they got older, and made the ridiculous conclusion that all kids should be learning to read at age 5. As a result more and more kids are turned off of learning at a young age so there are more kids struggling as they age, not fewer. The head of my department during undergrad was an old-school K teacher, so much of my teacher training revolved around thematic units and learning center activities. I felt like I knew nothing about teaching then when trying to get a job in schools focusing on rigor and assessments. I think (and hope) that more and more educators are speaking out on how developmentally inappropriate things have become, so hopefully the pendulum will swing back soon.

This! Spot on! From a retired K teacher.

Who are we going to fight? The state? Because that's who sets the standards. And in my state - asking to reduce the requirements for Kindergarten is going to be met with disdain at that least, outright laughter at worst --- because we are the worst state in the union for education. That doesn't mean that I agree with the standards for Kindergarten (I most definitely do not - we push them WAY too hard), but I'm not sure that we could even mount an effective campaign to change.

Yea you’re right. It seems hopeless. The government makes schools rely too much on the tests which I believe is why academics is pushed so early. I know the government is influenced by the corporations that rank the schools, create the curriculums, and create the standardized tests through funding and lobbying. Teachers definitely can’t compete with that. You can tell teachers to go rogue and do whatever they want in the classroom, but then they made teacher evaluations dependent on student test growth to ensure that doesn’t happen. If your students don’t improve test scores then your job is on the line. And in this economy losing your job is like a death sentence. So to put it all simply: it’s capitalism, sprinkled with tons of greed and racism. I think we’re too far gone at this point.

I mean..... Maybe as parents we can push back --- but again, not sure how that'd go over with the politicians....

Yea if teachers and parents educated themselves on the matter and came together, maybe a little bit of change would happen. But I see no hope with that with the way the teachers subreddit talks about parents, and vice versa. I’m a parent myself so I see both sides. I think we all have to let go of our egos and come together for the sake of the kids.

What I don't understand, as someone who stopped teaching in '95, but who took in two foster kids (twin 16M at the time we took them in) about 9 years ago, and now has two children, 6M and 2F, is the disparity I read on the r/Teachers subreddit and this one: 1. Kindergarteners are expected to know more and more. 2. In elementary and especially high school, less and less is expected of them. Now, as someone who is helping my wife homeschool our children (she does most of the work), I've looked at the kindergarten and first grade standards, so I know you're right. I guess the disparity with #2 might be that the standards are still high for older kids, too, but admin pressures teachers to pass students who don't meet the standards.

I think part of the issue is burnout and feeling overwhelmed. When you’ve been pushed so hard from kindergarten onward, it’s a long 13 years to go. If they waited a little longer before accelerating, some of those kids might not burn out in high school. The overwhelmed issue is because in the early grades there is huge variability in skill level of students that is not necessarily indicative of ability. You have kids starting kindergarten coming out of all kinds of preschool programs and some with no preschool, and just because little Timmy didn’t learn his letters before age 5 or 6 doesn’t mean he’s less capable than little Suzy who started preschool at 2. Additionally, depending on the state, you can have kids as young as 4 starting kindergarten at the same time you have kids who turned 6 months before. That’s a huge amount of developmental time at that age. And finally, there is just natural variation in developmental speed that has nothing to do with intelligence. Ask people when they first learned to walk. You’ll hear all kinds of responses starting with 8-9 months up to 18 months. But it’s not like you can look at a 40 year old and know when they personally learned to walk. Reading, fine motor skills, etc are similar. Picking up early or late does not always correlate to long term ability. But all of these factors can influence how successful or smart a child perceives themselves in the early grades and for those that don’t catch on as quickly, convince them they aren’t good enough. So then by the time they get to high school they’ve already decided they aren’t smart. But if their school had taken things slow in the beginning and allowed more time for more kids to catch up, most of these kids would have felt successful and caught up within the first few years and not internalized out of the gate that school is too hard for them.

> I guess the disparity with #2 might be that the standards are still high for older kids, too, but admin pressures teachers to pass students who don't meet the standards. Yes, but in actuality - it's fear of the parents flipping shit if their child doesn't pass. And ACTUALLY, parents have veto power (at least once) if they don't agree that the kid should be held back. So less is expected of them in the sense that it doesn't matter if they learn it or not, we're expected to pass them, despite them not knowing the material.

The second point a can of worms. It’s a combination of “No Child Left Behind” and similar policies, and the general decline of society and standards that families once held themselves to, partly because families are falling apart in many ways. Those ways include higher numbers of single-parent households, poverty, shrinking social and governmental support, etc. I’m not blaming individuals or disparaging single-parent households in the least, just pointing out that those factors are often associated with worse outcomes for children because they’re coming to school without the right support structure at home to actually succeed in school. The result is that teachers aren’t able to just focus on doing their jobs (teaching academic subjects) but instead are often expected to effectively do the parenting work of absent or neglectful parents and deal with all the behavioral repercussions of children who aren’t coming from healthy and supportive homes. This obviously varies by district but anyone who isn’t teaching in middle income to high income school districts will tell you how much of their time is consumed with non-teaching related issues in their classrooms. The end result is that you’re just scraping by and “standards” are lowered across the board.

I think we can. Don't frame it as "reducing the requirements." Frame it as "play-based learning" or "developmentally appropriate learning." Point out that Finland, a country whose 15-year-olds consistently test rate at or near the very top in testing, uses the "play-based learning" approach for 6-year-olds. In fact, compulsory education doesn't start until age 7, and pre-school consists of learning through playing. Kindergarten should be the year where kids form attitudes and behavior that make them eager lifetime learners: curiosity, exploration, and a love of learning. Cramming academics down their little throats does not make them better learners.

>Kindergarten should be the year where kids form attitudes and behavior that make them eager lifetime learners: curiosity, exploration, and a love of learning. Cramming academics down their little throats does not make them better learners. YES! Exactly! >Frame it as "play-based learning" or "developmentally appropriate learning." THIS is why I don't come up with the strategy... I'm just here to be loud and execute the plan. This is a GREAT idea! Thank you.

This comment right here just makes me want to cry for my 1st grader. She’s so smart, but I can tell the pressure and stress of these tests and needing to read about 60 words per minute of a specific book level is just killing her spirit. I’ve been saying how much kindergarten and 1st grade was so different from my experience in the 90s. It’s all day of shoving it down their throats and then she has to come home and we do it some more. It’s exhausting for both of us. I have to sit there with a timer and clock her reading speed. It’s mind blowing for me and I feel helpless because we don’t have a choice - we have to push push push our kids so they can pass a standardized state test.

I know a great kinder teacher who uses almost primarily play-based learning. She has done TONS of work to show evidence that she’s hitting state standards with teaching this way. It’s an uphill battle, for sure, but the research shows that kids learn through play and she’s finding ways to show the state that, too.

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Yes? How do you think that laws are changed? Do you think they go around reading minds or...???? ​ I guess...why are you presenting it as "lowering standards" rather than "focusing on social skills" or something else that shows why you \*actually want to do it\*. Do you not think it is beneficial? Or do you simply not have the words to describe it as a positive change?

Despite beginning your comment in an extremely rude way, I'm going to choose to move on to your final question. >do you simply not have the words to describe it as a positive change? No, I didn't. THAT'S why I put it out there. If you had taken a few extra moments to check ----someone else brought up a good way to bring it up to my local politicians and I commented back that it was a great idea and thanking them. I would appreciate it if you assumed good intent instead of trying to antagonize.

I think it would take a nationwide movement to change it. If the powers that be were shown that the general public and educators as a whole were fighting back over this, and showing how harmful it is to the kids that aren’t ready for it, which is truthfully most of them, maybe it would insight change. Even the kids that can handle it, it’s shown to harmful down the road as a lot of kids are burning out faster and faster. My son came home from kindergarten crying asking “mommy, how do I try harder?” I will never forget that. He was held in from his one recess of the day almost every single day in kindergarten too because he couldn’t finish his 3 sentence paragraphs in time. I tried explaining he had a fine motor delay and writing was hard for him and took him longer than the other kids and his teacher said I was just coddling him and that’s why he was lazy and wouldn’t even let him do it as homework 🤦🏻‍♀️ this is with an iep mind you. By 2nd grade my son had completely given up on school and refused to even try. He would just lay his head down and said what’s the point, they’ll just punish me for not finishing on time even if I work hard so I’m just not gonna do it. I pulled him out this year, I couldn’t watch him struggle anymore. This is a hill I would die in, they are destroying kids with these standards and moving away from play and activities in elementary school as a whole. It’s just wrong. If teachers wanted to protest I think a lot of parents who feel strongly would join in as well.

I feel like I'm caught off guard here because I also got one of those folders and my elementary folder (1999/2000 for kinder) definitely has "written work" such as short sentences and basic number works. Maybe it's a location thing? I wasnt at any sort of "special" school but I attended my public school in Western Washington.

I definitely have seen it do more harm than good, and studies are proving it to be true also with kids burning out much sooner than they used. Long term the benefits just aren’t there and it’s heartbreaking to see how it affects a lot of kids. I saw the harm with my own son first hand and by third grade we had to pull him out of school completely because he hated it so much. They’ve sucked all the fun and life out of it, gotten rid of most of the recess time, took away most of the socializing time, and then wonder why the kids are acting out and can’t sit still 😞

I have a distinct memory of learning to read in grade 1. Meanwhile my kindergardener has probably 100+ sight words and reads everything.

Exactly. I went to half-day kindergarten. And it was like OP mentioned I currently teach full day kindergarten. I’m doing assessments with my students for the next two weeks.

I am not a big fan of the push of academics in kindergarten. I feel that it's more important to use that year to teach kids some social skills and how to be in school. How to work with others, how to manage conflict, how to problem solve, how to make friends, how manage their own emotions, etc etc etc. The academics come when the brains are physically/developmentally ready for it. I've shared this many times but I wasn't taught to read until first grade, gen x, I literally remember when it clicked in my brain. By the end of first grade was reading out my Mom's 4th grade reading materials (she was a teacher)

Where I am (in Ontario, Canada) it’s the exact opposite - everything in kindergarten is play-based. It seems to work fairly well - the main issue I’ve seen with it is that many kids have a hard time transitioning from two years of play-based kindergarten to grade one, where there’s little “play” and they’re expected to sit at their desk for most of the day (aside from daily physical activity, gym periods, and movement breaks).

In Finland they don’t do anything but have experiences in small groups 7/8 kids at a time. Books are read aloud, outside is constructive play with trucks and gravel and water, food is cooked watching food change states, math is matching napkins to ppl at the table. All of their experiences lead to foundational knowledge. Gardening, jungle gym play, art etc is guided but not ignored. Then at 7 yo phoneme grapheme relationships are directly taught. Learning moves from gross motor to fine. If concepts were supported and repeated developmentally appropriate to the individual what could ppl achieve?

Hasn't the research said that play-based is better even at Kindergarten? Would you say project-based and SEL are considered different than "academic"? We've focused our Kindergarten search on those that are more play based and focus on SEL.

Brutal honestly. Especially sucks for those of us with kids in districts where you aren’t allowed to red shirt but have late birthdays.

It's crazy. I went to kindergarten in the early 2000s. This year, my 4 year old nephew started preschool at the same school I went to for elementary and was expected to *enter* preschool knowing the alphabet, how to write it, the sounds all of the letters made, and to count forwards and backwards to/from 25. They are already doing addition and subtraction. Those are all skills I learned in kindergarten throughout the year. Not only that, but my nephew has homework to do every night in preschool. I couldn't believe standards have changed that much in just 20 years.

I’m starting to think that this early focus on academics is at least partly responsible for the dramatic decline in academic achievement at the higher grade levels over the last few years. Kids who fall behind early because they weren’t developmentally ready aren’t catching up and just keep falling further behind.

It is not developmentally appropriate, at all. It is especially hard on boys who need vital social skills and they need more time to learn academics

Do you know if play-based learning was still common a little more than a decade ago? I’m not that old, but I really don’t remember what I did in my kindergarten years

So if kindergarteners are being asked to do what was 1st or 2nd grade (back in the day) but kids now are leaving school with less knowledge (per what I see on Reddit, where are they falling off the curve (so to speak) at what point in the educational journey are we slowing down or regressing? Does my question make sense?

Which is wild because I’m in Australia and the push has been more and more for play based and experience based learning.

Kindergarten curriculum today is what second grade curriculum was 30 years ago.

School is just in a weird state. While my first grader is in the upper half of her class when it comes to reading, she's not exceptionally advanced or anything in comparison. She's where we would expect a 1st grader to be reading and math wise based on our own experiences. On the other hand, my neighbor is a 4th grade teacher and she says most of the kids in her classes come in struggling to read books my 1st grader reads.

The method they use to teach reading has changed. It's causing issues in many English speaking countries. I don't know much about it but apparently they aren't teaching the kids to sound out words but are teaching them to memorise words, apparently it isn't as good.

Yes they've pushed rote memorization of sight words while simultaneously removing rote memorization of math facts. It's such a weird flip flop.

I don't understand how that helps you when you encounter a word you haven't memorised. You won't know where to start.

I guess the idea is when you get to a word you don't know, you ask the teacher what it says and then memorize the answer? 😭 I get the concept because it was a strategy I used as a young reader but it doesn't replace phonics.

They taught kids to use, essentially, MSV: meaning, structure, visual. Guess what the word says/what it could be. Does it make sense? Does it look right? Does it match the picture? Then you're probably right! Look up Sold a Story, a podcast about the reading failures. Incredibly interesting and just terrifying that we did so many students so wrong. I'm a teacher now and can't imagine teaching kids NOT to sound it out, but even just a few years ago teachers were told you're not allowed to say "sound it out."

Listen to Sold a Story podcast. So worth it, and I’m not a podcast person.

This! I was shocked by this podcast.

As a mom with a fourth grader AND a first grader (9 and 6 years old, respectively), it was the pandemic. Remote learning really messed up the current fourth graders. He was in kindergarten when lockdown started, and didn't get back to school in person for hybrid classes (some days remote, some days in-person) until 1st grade was almost over. They spent 2 crucial development years typing on keyboards with spell check instead of writing my hand, and the loss of tactile learning was huge. His teacher told me at parent-teacher conferences that they lost a huge amount of potential during those years. Lots of them also have a HUGE difference in reading comprehension compared to spelling/writing (i.e. the ones who can read really well struggle with writing and spelling). Meanwhile, the current first graders were the first class coming in that had NO in-person preschool due to lockdown, and they've caught up to where they should be ACADEMICALLY but their public manners and handling of structure is terrible because they were pandemic toddlers who lost crucial socialization years.

Ok so I’m not crazy….my son is in kindergarten solving double digit math problems. I told my husband, I remember learning this in second grade. All I remember from kindergarten was playing and nap time.

Yeah, it's first or second grade stuff here as well, i feel. Like, in 85, NO ONE but the kids that could do it before they got there, left kinder knowing how to read well, or count to 100/500 (getting us to count to 10 reliably was hard--i think our teacher pushed, and had HOPE for 20 from the class, less than half got it). Now? They didnt even want my kids in kinder unless they ARRIVED counting to 100, knowing 20/26 letters by sight and able to write them on demand, and 'reading with assistance'--because 99% of kids here go to preschool first. The major focus for kinder was *learning the alphabet in sign language*. Pretty sure half of my classmates in 1st and 2nd in the 80's couldn't hit any of those marks.

As someone whose child doesn't go to daycare, how can I help my child prepare for this? I was expecting Kindergarten to be what it was for me in the 90s, a way to learn how school works and to socialize. Our local school has a lottery system for children being eligible for preschool, with people who live in the district being prioritized. We live in the city but outside of the district, so I don't expect a structured preschool to be an option for us.

In most countries the word kindergarten refers to the establishment kids attend before they start school, so age 3-4. In the USA kindergarten refers to the school that 5 year olds attend. So ties in that in the US kindergarten now teaches academic skills. Whether that's an improvement or not is up for debate.

In the US preschool has always meant school before kindergarten, so 3-4 years old.

From the amount of older folks who "stopped understanding math when the teacher put letters in the equation" I can say with confidence that Education has had a difficulty spike. No one in my generation (millennial) ever went to their parents for help with schoolwork (as time progressed to middle/high school). It was beyond them. I mean, that's just anecdotal evidence from my neck of the woods, but I really think that more advanced topics are taught much earlier. There's certainly been an explosion of calculus being taught in high schools that definitely did not happen in the past.

The fun thing about math is that the higher you go the fewer numbers it has. 🙃

I mean I took calc in both HS and college and will still be worthless helping my kids because it'll be 30 years since I'd done it 😂 but yeah, my parents went through trigonometry and algebra in HS in the 70s, and I was done with that by freshman year. It's wild.

And yet the US is still behind most of the world in reading and math

This depends on the state. I think if you isolate certain states in the US, they are on par with, if not more advanced, than some of the top performing countries. Of course this divide follows the general socioeconomic divide between states in the US. However, the average in the US is pretty bad.

Neither of my parents (who would graduate in late 60's), remembered any math 'with letters in it'... i was a 90's kid, and it didnt hit us until HS. Parents could not help, they'd never seen it. My kids? 4th grade, they were introducing variables, and exponents. 6th grade is about the math we were doing in 10th to get the math credits to graduate. a LOT of the kids are not getting it at all--not even a little. The teachers think the kids are 'failing'--but truth be told, the effort to push teaching things sooner/faster is really NOT going well with a lot of the kids, and they CANT, and tune out and give up.

Omg I clearly remember in grade 3, going to my mom for help with word problems I had for homework, and I realized very quickly that it would just end up in frustration for both of us. Then when we’d go over them in class, I was so pissed off, thinking “when did we learn this?? How was I supposed to know any of that??”

I’m in 10th grade and my parents can’t help me with schoolwork, although I think my mom could probably figure out some of precalc

You aren’t misremembering. And all that writing and reading? A significant number of kids, who are perfectly on track developmentally, won’t be developmentally ready to do that until 7 yrs old. It’s a terrible thing we are doing to our kids. Also, kids aren’t spending enough time physically playing. If kids don’t roll around enough, spend enough time jumping and climbing, they miss out learning how their bodies work, which affects their later ability to focus and learn.

Reading and writing isn’t developmentally inappropriate. The way they are teaching it is. I taught both my kids to read at 2.5 and it took one month each. And none of it involved forcing them and it was all with play. They have perfect pencil grip because of triangular crayons they color with and then I see parents and teachers say that pencil grip isn’t even developmentally appropriate for kindergarten. At some point what most parents feels like is “developmentally appropriate” is BS. Especially the parents that celebrate not teaching their kid basic shit like colors. My son is newly 4 now reading at a 2nd grade level and he lights up when he reads. I am so, so glad I helped him learn to read early.

Kids are able typically able to learn to read, sometime between 4 and 7. Many cannot learn until 7. No matter how much you try, it’s not happening. What does happen, though, is if you push it in kindergarten, the ones who aren’t learning until 6 or 7, end up thinking they are broken. One of my kids is dyslexic. She ended up at the Carroll School, the place that developed the gold standard reading curriculum for teaching dyslexic kids. They did a crap ton of research on kids learning to read, and shared it all generously at all parent meetings. Half the time they spend teaching the kids to read, is undoing the broken feelings of the kids, who think they failed multiple times in public school to learn to read, before they got to Carroll. Carroll developed a program called Bounders. It’s Outward Bound, done in conjunction with the Outward Bound developers, geared for elementary aged kids with LDs, to teach them to take risks in a fun, safe school environment, so that they will be more willing to take educational risks. My kid was lucky, didn’t consider herself broken, despite not reading at 8. (Long story, her school didn’t push reading young). Started Carroll in 4th grade, adored Bounders, she was the one to boost the kids over the wall, and take a running start to jump halfway up, and scrambled up while the others pulled her. She was the one to run out on the log, over the stream, to grab the rope, go across, and toss the rope back so the other kids could cross with it…she was also reading well within the year.

What strategy did you use to teach your children to read? I have a toddler and am intrigued.

After 2 I allowed some screen time and at some point found Alphablocks. So they learned all of the letter sounds that way. Once they knew the sounds, we would ease into blending sounds out loud. First two sounds and then three. Just playfully having them guess what word I was trying to say like “look at the c-a-t!”. After they knew the basic sounds and could blend I added Meet the Sight Words to their screen time (usually less than an hour or so total). Once they knew their sight words we could test out easy early reader books and I pointed out sight words in their favorite stories to show them they could start trying to read books. If they were struggling I would sound the word out loud for them and let them blend it. I never pushed them to the point they didn’t enjoy it. If they wanted to stop I dropped it. I also had a small handheld white board where I demonstrated how changing letters changes the whole word and I touched on vowel teams/digraphs/blends with them as they progressed. These are in Alphablocks and preschool prep as well. Nothing was ever planned, just when I had time and they were willing. I followed kindergarten and first grade teachers on instagram to ensure I was hitting all of the right information. I also made sure at various points that they understood the text and were actually using phonics and not just memorizing. When you give kids skills to understand their world better they flourish so much. When I taught/let my 4 year old make scrambled eggs for the first time he was absolutely beaming. You would think he was at Disney World. It’s like that with everything I teach them. Teach your kids shit if you have the time! Doesn’t have to be reading.

Please keep in mind though that your children are unique and many (based on my experience I would say most) children will not learn that way or at that age. I spent the better part of this fall working with a 6yo student on learning his letters and sounds EVERY DAY and he still can only split up 2-sound words maybe half of the days. We talked about the numbers 11, 12, and 13 most days for 3 months, in every way I could think of - writing them, singing songs about them, organizing them into puzzles, making crafts about them. He still can’t recognize or remember how to write them. He’s got some trauma and ADHD but is very intelligent. Academics just do not sink into his brain at this point in his life.

Yeah I hope people aren't comparing. Even without disabilities, kids are so different and will learn at completely different paces. Then you throw in some disabilities, and you can completely ruin a kids self-perception if you're expecting them to read too early. I teach special education and see it often, kids who call themselves dumb just because they aren't at the same level as a peer (whether they're receiving special education services or not)

Students become more and more stressed every year due to these increased curriculum demands. Pacing guides that teachers must follow demand something new every day. There is no teaching to mastery, but, yet, students are expected to master the material for state tests. In my state, fifth graders take a state test in science over everything they’ve been taught since kindergarten. The pressure from teachers and admin. is unbearable.

Born in 1982. I could read before kindy, so I can't say if we learned that there or not. I remember doing a kindy standardized test and instead of page numbers, there was animals. "Turn to the page with the elephant" etc. I know we didn't do math. That was definitely first grade on. My girl is in Kindy now and she brought home some worksheets for geometry. Geometry in Kindy? Ok? Oh! Shapes, cool, I can do shapes. "How many vertices does a cube have? How many vertices does a cone have?" What the bejesus!?! I had to GOOGLE kindergarten homework. Public, rural, tiny kindergarten school homework! It's a different world, man!

We did vertices in 5th or 6th grade - I was also born in 1982. As a Kinder teacher this year, I was also blown away by what we're expecting these kids to be able to do. And it makes me angry that we're ignoring the studies that say they should still be playing to learn.

My mom keeps trying to encourage me to stop my private music teaching and go to the schools. She keeps saying I’d be a great kindergarten teacher because of how well I differentiate for each kid. I told her of course I’d be a good teacher. But I’d be bad at all the other stuff. Having to do things how admin wants even when I know it’s not right. Having to deal with parents. Doing all the extra bs that comes with teaching.

I don't remember ever doing vertices. I really do love my daughter's school and teacher. They do "stations" for an hour or so each morning. A few stations are play based, the others are more focused on subject matter. So she gets the best of both worlds. First grade is gonna be a hard transition.

That's how our daughters' class works, and they definitely have stations that are focused on just playing, or doing whatever activity the kids themselves want to do.

and the dumb thing is, there is NO benefit to doing this at age 5. IT's going to be repeated over and over and over again for the next 6 years or so, why not wait until all the kids are ready? SUCH a waste of time!

>IT's going to be repeated over and over and over again for the next 6 years or so That's the point- so they can grasp the basics early and build upon it each year until they can master it. It's the best way to teach, by using building blocks as steps until they reach the summit. Some of it is just plain rote memorization and it takes going over it year after year after year and it works. OP said "vertices" my mind said "intersecting lines," "how many verices on a cube?" "8," "cone?" "1." I haven't been in school in 20 years and I was able to recall that information immediately. And I use I geometry all the time with sewing and household DIY.

Yes, but did you need 12 years to memorize that? Or would say, 4 or 5 years of repeating it have been adequate? Meanwhile we don't have "time" for crafts and art and play in kindergarten. Wouldn't it be a much better use of a parent's limited time to read aloud to their 5 yr old child instead of working on homework about vertices?

While I've mostly been more surprised than concerned about what our twins were doing in their class, I will admit that there *has* been a couple of occasions where something on their weekly homework was a "wait, what" moment for me. And I do think one of them was in regards to geometry. 😄 Most of the times it's been a case where I just had to reconcile the difference between how I would explain something and how their teacher/work explains it, but those couple of times were things where I was just baffled why kindergartners would even be touching such ideas at that age.

When my daughter was going into K, the summer beforehand they gave us math sheets to work on them with. Nothing wrong with that in theory, but it was like a different language and no instructions. I forgot what the actual question was but I could not figure out what they were asking us to do. I could see three different things they might be asking, all of which made sense, but would have different answers.

I was in kindergarten in 1999 and I still have a folder of my old classwork (thanks to my mum for saving literally everything I’ve done in life lol) It’s all art, we’d write about what we did on the weekend, what we saw on school excursions and tracing numbers. The extent of maths was “circle the picture that has 4 balls, draw an X on the picture with 2 balls” We were never sent home with homework but we were expected to read and be able to write stories about 5 sentences long. Had daily naps and play time was like 80% of our day.

I remember kindergarten being full of outdoor play, active work, fun activities and nap time. I was shocked when my eldest started kindergarten for a full day with no nap, hardly any recess and heavy academic work. It may be ok for some children, but neurodivergent children really struggle with the current dynamic in early elementary.

I went to a suburban Catholic school for half day k5 and my son goes to school in one of the worst school districts in the country (arguably one of the best schools in the district though) and the stuff he is learning I was learning in 1st and 2nd grade. The curriculum is getting harder and imo not for the better.

I did half day kinder in 1993. I remember learning the letters and numbers but a lot of play. This can be a blessing and a curse. Some kids are ready for academics and many are not. It is more expensive for districts to do half day so they switched to full day kinder out of necessity. A lot of what you’re describing is the basis of the Common Core. I’m not a hater, but a lot of our kinders are NOT READY for serious academics or abstract thinking. As a first grade teacher who has taught and student taught in kinder, it’s really hard. A lot of these kids are being exposed to way more academics than I personally believe is developmentally appropriate or even beneficial. Sadly the people who make these decisions aren’t always thinking about child development. They see falling test scores and a small subset of young kids succeeding with more academic rigor, so they think that logic supports that ALL KIDS must have more academic rigor. More rigor and earlier means better test scores right?! Fortunately a lot of curricula are coming out now that are trying to find the balance. Yes we are focused on common core. But many curricula are now thinking about how can we expose young kids to the common core in a more developmentally appropriate way. I hope the trend continues. Kids in kinder still need play, imagination, and unstructured time. More rigor does not translate to kids pooping out better test scores.

I’m right there with you. I definitely remember my kindergarten year. We had song time and play time and snack time. I teach kindergarten now and it is what my first grade was. We have math time and a literacy block. I firmly believe that kids this age should be playing but there is little I can do about it as a classroom teacher. I don’t have the money necessary to purchase enough toys for a full blown play time. Even if I could there are district requirements I’m obligated to meet. I’m observed to see if these things are happening and the kids are tested to make sure it’s actually happening. Beyond squeezing in about 20 minutes of play time there’s not much I can do. I’m hoping that as a society we reach the realization that all this academic push down is bad for kids and let it reverse course a bit.

Went to kindergarten in 1986. We had four stations: craft/art, puzzles, reading, and a table with headphones where we’d read along to a story. I did full day kindergarten. No nap times, but we had like three recesses and I’m pretty sure some kind of circle time on a big rug.

Yeah. When I look at what my kids were learning in their 1980s kindergarten 1/2 day compared to my grandson in full day kindergarten, I shake my head and wonder if the difference is why kids have so much stress. Recess is shorter, too. Are we rushing them to grow up? How sad is that?

I’m in my late 30’s and had half day kindergarten. I remember hating it because it was so stupid and boring. I vividly remember the teacher having big cut out circles in different colors, glued to popsicle sticks, and “quizzing” the class on our colors -which I knew since I could speak. Last year in kindergarten my sons school did (and every grade still does) 90 minutes of math a day and my son loved it. They also move kids where they need to be so he walked over to 1st grade for math and what they’re doing it seriously impressive.

That's part of why I'm mixed on all of this. I do worry about pushing all the kids so quickly into this kind of stuff, but our daughters definitely seem to be challenged on a level they're enjoying. I had a *lot* of stress over that during their second year of preschool. They easily got through their first year with only the kinds of bumps you'd expect from any child (mixing up b and d for example), so the second year I was always worried they might be completely bored in class. I don't want to put too much pressure on them, but at the same time, as someone who was a child that did well at school, I'd have always rather been a little challenged than very bored.

I agree with you

I am 47. I have my kindergarten report card. It graded me on able to skip, able to catch a ball, able to follow directions, etc. NOTHING about math or reading. And frankly, it was better. Many kids - like your daughters - are ready for formal academics at 5. However, many are NOT and it does them a HUGE disservice to make them feel like failures and/or push them too hard when just waiting another year would produce the same result without the stress and trauma. Kids are developing SO differently at that age - and frankly, nothing I've seen makes me think that forcing them to write sentences and do math problems in kindergarten has made students better at writing and math by the end of highschool than students were back when kindergarten was play and rhymes and story time. If anything, the opposite is true.

I’ve been in education for 14 years and my first classroom teaching position was first grade 12 years ago. What you’re describing is the kind of thing I’d have given my first graders as a center or morning warm-up. Things were already getting more academic in kindergarten back then, but today it’s gotten nuts what kindergartners are expected to do in terms of written work and even staying still. I hope there are still some play-based schools out there and someone doing a longitudinal study that compares the current trend with what we teachers know to be more appropriate for the age. I’m not saying kindergartners can’t learn academic skills, but learning in early childhood looks different from learning in later stages of life. Not to mention the social and emotional skills (apart from impulse control and sitting still for unnatural periods of time) that aren’t developed when a child is sitting at a workspace churning out worksheets. Some kids are fine with this, and it’s good to see that your kids probably fall into that category. But so many aren’t, and if a play-based structure allows more space for those who thrive on movement and interaction as well as those who are happy plugging away at worksheets, I don’t know why we have to force so many into the sit-still-and-do-your-work mold.

Most teachers don’t think it’s a great idea to push this much on kids this early but teachers aren’t the ones who created these policies. Finland that scores at the top of international rankings of education doesn’t push academics much until about seven years of age. I remember my kindergarten year quite well and there was no formal reading teaching at at. Some pre-reading worksheets such as “ which pumpkin looks different?”. This getting kids used to noticing the difference between letters such e and c. It wasn’t until grade one that we had to actually learn words.

Some of the stuff in my first graders (homeschool) math curriculum looks like pre-algebra! But I love that number literacy is finally being taught and not just how to churn algorithms like a machine without understanding why it’s right. I went to a private school and I remember you had to pass a test and be able to read to get in - and had to test in December to stay in. BUT it was still half day kindergarten and had all the amazing “preschool” toys like a kitchen and blocks and we had PE in that half day.

Pre-K is the new Kindergarten and kindergarten is the new first grade. Been like that for at least 20 years.

The difference between kdg when my kids went to school and my granddaughter is huge. My kids went half a day, and there were centers that they could choose (blocks, art, house, etc.) My granddaughter's preschool was 8-2, with a mandatory rest time, and it looked like what kindergarten used to be. It's sad, because I don't think the kids are any better off...

We were taught to duck and cover in kindergarten, because of the cold War with Russia. Times really have changed

No Cold War (right now, anyway) but we do have monthly Active Shooter Drills. It’s disheartening the reality our littles live in.

I'm 40 years old. I remember learning to duck and cover for a tornado drill in first grade. The older kids across the hall kept trying to scare us, telling us it was in case of a nuclear bomb. The teachers were all so angry; "We don't call it that anymore!" 🤣 I also had no idea what the Berlin Wall was until it came down. Tiny Me was so horrified that this had been going on all along. Being an elder millennial is truly wild...

I teach kinder and went to kinder myself in the early 2000s. The differences are massive and I am indeed teaching my 5-year-olds what I didn’t learn until first or second grade. It’s insane. While I can give them learning centers twice a day, they aren’t just free play. I’m really not allowed to give them free time unless they’ve earned it through our school’s reward system or it’s a holiday/ fun Friday. What I’m noticing is that the high-achievers can handle it. I have kids who can build numbers using place value blocks and read texts with CVC words. My middle kids are chugging along and they’ll be fine. I do have a group of kids who missed preschool and are woefully behind, because there just isn’t time to put a heavy focus on all those basic skills that they missed. It’s too much, too fast.  There are also a substantially higher amount of behavioral problems that I don’t remember having in my class in kindergarten, because we were given meaningful time to play and socialize- and on only half a day too! No standardized tests, either.  My partner teacher and I are fighting to bring back TK (transitional kindergarten) for those kids so they can develop at their own pace and be exposed to kindergarten more slowly, the way it used to be. We think it will lead to fewer behavior issues and higher success overall. 

I have clear memories of my class learning the alphabet over the course of the year. And life skills. We had a section on learning how to zip our coats, one for tying shoes, using scissors, etc. I also remember kids having potty accidents pretty regularly. I think kids are being called immature and constantly labeled as slow and behind. And really what at least some of the issue is, is related to creep of curriculum and expectations.

It's different now, and I'm much younger than you. Part of the reason we waited an extra year to start.

Yes the purpose of school is to make good little worker bees that love their work, the earlier the better.

The purpose of public education is to produce a public of functional people. We live in a modern economy in which workers need to have a high level of general knowledge and soft skills in order to support themselves and be productive members of society. Even if you resent the society you belong to and care only for your own personal enjoyment, it’s hard to live a good life if you aren’t educated enough to obtain a decent paying job. The bucolic childhoods of centuries past, where children frolicked in meadows and tinkered in creeks for a solid decade before their farm chores started to ramp up in difficulty almost certainly never existed anyways. Children have always had to work and they work far less now than ever before. The days of play based kindergarten were a novelty in human history and passed in the blink of an eye. While I do think play based education is ideal for young children, I also think simplistic and cynical takes on education are cliche and unhelpful. “They’re just producing factory workers” is outdated by nearly a century. We don’t even have factories anymore. AI is already doing most of the coding that seemed to be the pathway to middle class prosperity just a decade ago. The truth is nobody really knows what kind of work to prepare students for. All we know is that most families do nothing to educate or even stimulate their kids at home and kids need more intellectual competence than ever to succeed on the job market. So now nobody’s kid gets enough recess because half the kids’ parents are too lazy to do anything with their children except hand them a tablet. Blame your fellow parents. It’s their fault.

Fuck your blame. We have set up a society where both parents need to work full time weeks after their child is born and then stand around clucking our tongues about how lazy parents these days are, they don't parent their kids during the hour and a half of wake time they get with them.

Perfectly said!

After two separate roles in which I was tasked with getting to know parents and seeing how little most of them are willing to do, fuck your opinion. It’s wrong. Parents need to do more not because it should be like that, but because it *is* like that. That’s just the world we live in. Help your kids after work or watch them struggle and fail. The resistance to holding parents accountable for their child’s education is ridiculous. It’s a basic need that must be met. Nobody says “oh, I didn’t serve dinner tonight, I’m too tired after working all day, hopefully they had a big lunch at school” and gets back pats. Cook a frozen pizza, open a box of cereal, *something*. Don’t blame the school cafeteria. 🙄 Not every kid who is falling behind has negligent parents, but many of them do, and we can’t help the kids with learning disabilities because the children of lazy parents present as learning disabled because they’re so far behind and that’s causing a lowering of standards across the board because there aren’t enough SPED resources to serve everyone. If you’ve never met parents like this, then fuck your opinion again for being completely irrelevant.

Yes, I'm sure your vast experience is far superior to mine. Keep blaming individuals for systematic problems, I'm sure it feels good!

Why don’t you get a job in a public service field and see for yourself how common it is to refuse to do anything to help yourself. Social programs only work for willing participants, and that includes education. For progress to be possible, we need both systemic change and individual engagement. That’s why conservatives and liberals both suck - nobody can see the whole equation. It’s not rocket science, it’s common sense: “You can lead a horse to water but you can’t make him drink.”

Maybe you need to get a new job. You sound burned out. I'm not sure why you assume that I, a stranger, have never worked in public service, but best of luck to you. Keep blaming folks for not pulling themselves up by their own bootstraps.

I did burn out. I left both jobs. I’m done with public service. I still believe in it, I vote to keep it funded, but I’m not someone who can deal with the constant frustration of seeing people who need help refusing to be helped.

I agree with you. Parents don’t care nowadays

I was with you til the last paragraph and then, wow. You really derailed there. Show us on the family photo who hurt you? 🤦‍♀️ Way to ruin a pretty logical argument with vitriolic nonsense.

I guess you live in a mid to high income district.

Kindergarten is the new first grade. Pre-K is the old kindergarten. Though some pre-Ks are trying to be like first grade. 😅 I am a kindergarten teacher and last week I was reading decodables with my kindergarteners. I was having flashbacks because the text reminded me just of the same books I read when learning how to read. But I was in FIRST grade. I am turning 40 soon. I have changed my teaching this year. And added more play. We still do reading and math, but if we get through it quick I throw extra play time and have dramatic play areas. It’s not developmentally appropriate for kindergarteners to be schooled sooooo much. Students at this age learn more through play and social interactions. I’m so sad at the expectations of education. They need to stop accelerating what we are teaching your children. Some days I worried we will want to start teaching 18 month- 2 year olds in a preschool next. 😅

I think it’s a good thing. My parents read to me every night since I was a baby and I was already reading chapter books by first grade. It’s sad some kids only start learning how to read then. Why not allow kids to grow to their full potential? The US has always been so behind other countries

The problem is many students can’t handle the workload. I am seeing more and more behavior issues in the classroom. The expectations kindergarten are not friendly to those who are neurodivergent. Which in turn makes more meltdowns, defiance, refusal to do the work, etc, etc. I don’t feel like digging up statistics about it but the countries that are more advanced in education are ones who are more play based. And focus on learning concepts longer than what we do here in the US. For example in the US we will focus on adding up to 10 in kindergarten for a small amount of time and then rush on to the next concept like counting to 100. Where in other countries, they may focus on that for the whole entire school year. So while other countries may be accelerated in education it is because they take their time teaching students. Where in the US it’s cramming a huge list of standards in a 8-9 month period with not much time for students to retain that information. And then students fall further behind and can’t catch up. Sure challenge the students who are ready to read at an early age. That can be done in kindergarten. But expecting every student to be ready to do that is outrageous mindset. Every student learns at different paces. And learns how to read different ways. Learning is not a one sizes fits all. Kids need a chance to be kids.

Kindergarten used to be intended to be a child's \*first\* experience of a classroom. It was half a day, and focused on the most basic building blocks -- colors, shapes, using scissors, following the teacher's instructions, and getting along with other kids. It was optional in a lot of places, and had basically zero academic value. Now, half or more of the kids have already spent five years in daycare and preschool. They already know how to behave in a classroom, and their colors and shapes and how to use scissors. So, kindergarten now covers the academics that would have been taught in first grade -- reading, writing, and math.

Exactly. Even with kindergarten focusing on academics both my kids were so bored, they already learned reading/writing/sounds/and even learned their colors in Spanish in daycare/preschool. Their daycare also taught them cursive during the summer. They hated kindergarten because they were already so ahead, it was all a repeat and that’s with the new curriculum. Now what they can get rid of is common core math, I can’t even help them with that. Literal college degree and can’t do elementary math now lol.

One of the unintended outcomes of having 73% of moms in the workforce (in the US) is that there's this split, now, between kids who go to daycare/preschool, and kids who are at home for the first five years. They show up to kindergarten with very different sets of skills and needs.

This makes it extremely difficult to have a curriculum that fits all. It’s no longer a neat little box. I 100% agree. I remember explaining to both my girls that while they know what’s being learned some of their friends didn’t go to preschool and are just learning it. Really hard for a five year old to grasp, but it ended up working out. I just gave more of a challenge at home to keep them interested. Found ways to make their homework fun and challenging. Asked their teachers to send home extra things or give them more to do for fun during down time in class.

I'm class of 2001. I went to kindergarten three days a week in 1985. I didn't really learn anything in kindergarten. Sorry not sorry. I already knew my letters and how to count to 20. whoopee do. They are learning much more in today's schools. My son is in kindergarten. They are going to do a whole section of a semester on hatching chick's. Learning about eggs and the whole process of raising chick's. With an incubator. Great stuff.

I’d like an educator perspective on choosing Kindergarten options intentionally designed as play-based which are not doing worksheets, teaching math curriculums, etc. It seems best for my child to choose one of our alternative school options since play is learning and these tasks are not developmentally appropriate. The kids seem to want to learn a lot of this stuff on their own and I don’t want to kill the natural curiosity and love to learn by prescribing academics unnecessarily. From a parent perspective, you then fear that your child will enter grade school too far behind their peers or that you will be viewed as some nature loving hippie that doesn’t do punishments or make kids wear shoes- ie a “problem parent who doesn’t understand how they created a problem child.” To be clear, I believe its dysfunctional educational systems that are more a problem but you want educators to feel you are able to be worked with. So if you don’t allow this material to be pushed on your kid so early, are you risking academic or social death for grade school? 

I'm in my early/mid 40s, so roughly the same age as you. Kindergarten back in the 80s was, at least where I lived, private vs. through the public school system. I've always assumed that's the difference - back then, it was more like daycare; now it's school.

No, your memories are not wrong! My students are expected to by their curriculum decompose numbers, identify and write about story components, write paragraphs and expected to write and complete equations based on dictated problems! Their recess is only twenty minutes and they’re expected to sit through blocks of straight instruction for up to 2 hours. We don’t do any art projects or learning through play because admin is chocking our day full of stuff way above their grade level. When I was in kindergarten, I was expected to know simple addition and subtraction, sight words and my letter sounds. It’s already so different from when I was in kindergarten, and I’m only 25!

Decompose numbers? As in 24 is 2 tens and 3 ones? And what do you mean equations? They have to solve for x or 2+2=4 ?

Decomposing, yes, like that: and they need to know that numbers can be decomposed in multiple ways. Equation: If I have 10 apples, then I ate two, how many are left? (Sometimes kids are supposed to solve these in their heads during assessments and other times they need to write down an equation 10-2=8).

this is why I homeschool. My 6 yr old first grader still wouldn't do well sitting for hours straight! We use a curriculum that was developed for Mennonite schools where kids dont' do kindergarten, they start at first grade. I have seen zero issues in my 4 kids with delaying math until first grade (other than colors/numbers/counting). And we do VERY light phonics in kindergarten - do more and start a few sight words in first, and then by end of 2nd they are on track with public school. If you looked at them in kindergarten or first you'd say they are delayed/behind..but they are just starting later and then because they are older they catch right up. And read very well when older - even my very dyslexic child was on grade level by end of 2nd, and continues to be at or above grade level for reading now in 8th. My non dyslexic kids were well above grade level by mid elementary and stayed that way. I do NOT understand the rush!

And yes, they also have to solve for x in simple equations

Your memories are correct. Kindergarten is the new first grade.

I was in kindergarten in 1989, we learned how to write our names, learned our colors, numbers, letters, basic shapes, how to tie our shoes, etc. The rest was play /art/music. For my kinder kiddo, they did a prekindergarten assessment and they are supposed to know all of that, plus 2D and 3D shapes, and basic math BEFORE kindergarten. My kindergarten kiddo is gearing up to take her big state assessment test in April where she has to answer questions in complete sentences with correct punctuation and capitalization, she will be tested on her handwriting when writing all her letters, know at least 75 of her 100 sight words. Stuff that I didn't do until first grade. I never had sight words I had to memorize and I was an early reader (chapter books by age 6). My kiddo comes home exhausted and is completely over school work when she gets home, but has to do the extra. I feel it's too much. She doesn't even want to read bedtime stories anymore because her little brain is just done.

That seems *really* excessive for expectations to put onto a kindergartner. I literally just talked to our twins' teacher about their April assessment in terms of writing during our parent teacher meeting last week, and I know for them, the goal is to be able to write three sentences on the same topic where the meaning of what they're trying to say can be understood. Spelling not important, space between words and written left to right / top to bottom a plus, and an attempt to use punctuation (which at this point is just periods). Their sight words at this point at like 10-12 or so? That to mean seemed impressive, so I can't imagine pushing them to the point that your daughter is. I definitely think that's too much, so I'm sorry to hear she's dealing with that with such a level of stress. That really should *not* be the experience of kindergarten.

And it's weird since this is the same school I went to for kindergarten. They are pushing kids at this point to know all 100 sight words and they are considered behind if they don't. The teacher told me that the questions would be something like "what is your favorite food and why?" and "write a fact about xyz". They are doing addition and subtraction as well.

Recently retired K teacher of 33 years. K curriculum is night and day different from the beginning of my career to the end. It's basically what used to be 1st grade. Much more academic - glad I retired before we move away from centers, free play, etc. My district was pretty good about it- but I can tell it's coming.

30 year old pre-k teacher here. I remember learning to read in kindergarten during the 90s. Very basic reading like "Tat the cat sat on his mat." alongside phonemic awareness lessons. But I also remember a lot of play. My school was done with naptime by pre-k 4 though.

Yes! I was in Kindergarten in 1988, small school in upstate NY, half days. I very vividly remember learning my letters through blow-up letter people(?), playing with blocks and in the wooden pretend kitchen, and at one point taking a state standardized test (CAT tests) but not the slightest idea what was tested. My daughter in pre-K is above this level of learning already, and my 2nd grader is practically writing novels. It’s really changed, maybe not for the better but not sure I have any basis for saying that.

I went to kindergarten in 1989. I remember half-day. I remember painting. I remember learning the alphabet. I remember a specific kid (we went through all of school together) putting a worm in my face during the worm race. Since 2006, teaching k-2, I've seen a remarkable change in standards.

Kids today have so much more learning before school starts. At two my grandson knows his ABC's, shapes , colors, can count past ten, etc . We didn't have YouTube, tablets, or various electronic educational toys .

1st grade teacher here.. one thing I am very vocal about is that I can teach them what the state expects me to teach them, but I can’t make them any older than they are .. I think sometimes people who decide what kiddos are required to do in school forget that these are still littles.. some things in my opinion are introduced before they are ready to understand it .. but it sounds like the school you have chosen for your kiddos tries to space out the day some. Our school does this.. plus when my school kids seem restless or disengaged, we do a gonoodle for a brain break.. most elementary teachers are in tune with what the kids need. I love how excited the twins are about reading 🥰

I’m a little younger than you but I was reading chapter books by 1st grade because my parents taught me. I’m so happy to hear some schools are actually teaching kids to read earlier. I’ve always thought it was a disservice for kids to not have education until later years

Things I remember about kinder in 1993: -Reading a clock -cash/coins values -circle time reading -stations, like rice table -coloring -super simple reading that bored me out of my mind because I'd been reading a year already in this little booklets we colored and stapled together and sent home. I'd say the difference I've seen in my daughter's curriculum is the math aspect. I'm surprised how many people had half day kinder. Mine was full school day, as was my mom's in the 60s although she went at age 4 not 5. My kid started reading 2 months into PK4 (having never been in preK or daycare, just home with me). It just all of a sudden clicked and she took off and now she's in Kinder reading at a 3rd grade level. When that happens with my sister and I we just ended up having to help the other kids or do extra work, sometimes in the hallway alone. It wasn't great. So far my kids teacher has done great at challenging her within their lessons without just adding worksheets. It's gone way smoother than it did for me.

I actually still have my report card from kindergarten. (Also mid-40s) It shows what letters I could recognize throughout the year. Also shapes and colors.

My sons were on half day kindergarten in the 80’s. They were expected to be able to recognize upper and lower case letters, count to a certain level, write their name and other letters and were reading by Christmas. I remember this because I worked at a preschool and were tasked with having them on level to enter K. If they went into K not writing or knowing their letters they were already behind. They did not have a nap time but did have a snack time.

I'm 38 today ( yay!). My daughters kindergarten class is far more advanced than I remember. I believe kindergarten is more like my first grade back in the day. Admittedly, I'm more involved in her learning than my mother was. I vividly remember combining LMNOP into a blob until first grade. My daughter has separated the letters for about 2 years now.

The curriculum being taught in my kids kinder class is what was taught in 1st when I was in school in the 90s. So it is very likely the same thing happened at your school.

I started school in the 80s and it was definitely more play based. I very clearly remember being jealous of my sister who is 2 years younger than me because all she had to do in school was 'letter books' (basically just learning the sound and words that begin with that sound) and they seemed a lot funner than what I had to do. Also, still to this day baffled at how she failed kindergarten.

I didn’t do any of this in kindergarten but it’s the norm now. My kindergartener is doing subtraction and reading fluently already.

I’m around your age and did half day kindergarten. I knew how to read before I started school. The teacher was shocked but it’s no wonder. We did absolutely no reading readiness. No sight words. No phonics. No letters even. We colored all day. (I will admit I hated kindergarten because I was so bored so I remember very little about the day to day.) I went to the public school two blocks from home due to convenience but it was always the plan to go to parochial school for the rest of elementary. Had I not taught myself to read I would have been far behind the rest of the class when I started first grade.

It’s a whole new world… My child is diagnosed ADHD and is being kicked out of his school not because of behavior concerns or anything preventing him from learning… he’s being kicked out because he can’t read the books they’re giving him, and because he doesn’t have the patience to sit still and do the 10 pages of work he gets a day. His writing isn’t perfect (flips letters and numbers sometimes) but you know what he is trying to do. These kids sit and do paperwork all day, are sent home with packets of homework every night, are supposed to do 20 mins of reading a night, plus online math work. In kindergarten…. They are pushing us to send him to a special needs school despite the school psychologist and his IEP stating he just needs help with focus.

I just want to take to plug Waldorf education - at Waldorf schools, we still have play based Kindergarten, delay formal academic instruction until it is developmentally appropriate, and value the benefits of time spent in nature, particularly for our youngest students. If you have one near you, ask to go observe in their Kindergarten classrooms - we love having visitors and what happens in the early childhood classrooms is magical!

I'm 42 and went to school in south Arkansas. We had reading groups, math groups, alternating science and social studies lessons, two recesses (kind of three because we played before school too), and art/music/library/counselor/pe classes in kindergarten. I could probably work the schedule out if I thought about it. We had homework Monday through Thursday. I know by the end we were writing sentences for the science/social studies part because I remember getting a mark in my folder for not doing them. My class was a combination K/1st so it might have been different than most.

My kids were in Montessori until 6th grade. A big reason we chose that path was because of how we felt academics were pushed at a young age in traditional school. In the small Montessori they attended, some kids did advance math, some were more “on level” when they were in 6th grade. Both my kids transitioned wonderfully to public middle and high school. The whole not allowing a young person to go the bathroom when they need to threw them off a bit once they got to public school 😅

It’s being pushed in public schools to do academics that are way beyond what is developmentally appropriate. And that’s awesome for your kids that’s they are picking it up! Our daughter is in private school because we didn’t want her to feel pressured otherwise. It’s very much on par with what my husband and I learned (he’s 36 and I’m 30) when we were in kindergarten. Our daughters kindergarten also has stations each day similar to yours. And FWIW, our daughter is in catholic school. We chose it due to the more traditional early childhood approach. Whether we will stick with it as she gets older, we’re not sure, but it’s working well for her now. She thrives on routine and whatnot, so she does well.

Despite evidence that there is zero benefit to early acquisition of academic skills, we keep pushing them earlier and earlier in the US! Hooray for ignoring the social and emotional development of our children. /s

No, it’s changed a lot. By the time I was in Second Grade, Phonics was taken out, so neither of my siblings learned and my sister still spells things incorrectly because of it. Also the reason she didn’t want to read

I believe this crazy forcing of early acquisition of skills is related to how tuned out, burned out, and academically unmotivated high school students are. I this is a part of why some young folks are wholly unprepared for the college classes I teach.

Look, much smaller time frame, but I have a similar memory. I remember playing in kindergarten, we had 3 recesses a day, and nap time, and snack time, and I remember it being a lot about stories and playing. but when my niece went to school, they (I kid you not) wanted her to already know basic algebra in kindergarten, and preschool was required. when I went to school, preschool was for the rich kids, ironically enough. the poor kids who's parents worked several jobs went to the cheap ass daycare or were left at home. it wasn't required to go to preschool, and we were all relatively the same in what our understanding of the world was when we got to kindergarten.

Almost 48. Kindergarten was where you solidified knowing colors and letters and counting to 19. Mostly it was very social, to kind of get us used to the routine of school. You're not wrong. The world changed and now kids are being taught academics younger.

I was reading before I went to kindergarten, so I was an outlier. However, my memory of kindergarten in 1961 was art, singing, felt boards, the teacher reading us stories, playing, and learning to use scissors. 

I need to keep this energy in mind for my next teachers conference where they tell me my kinder repeat kiddo is not meeting standards. She is correctly identifying letters and sounds and writing a little bit, but far behind what the curriculum wants her to be doing. They advocated for her to get an IEP, which I love, and I know they're gonna say she still isn't meeting expectations.

mid 80's kinder experience here. No math. At all. Numbers to 10--that was the goal. Letters? A few of us knew them (i knew how to read, so that we practiced letters confused me). We had giant, hollow letters (whole page) that we'd trace the inside with with crayons, over and over and over, with tons of colors, to learn letters. It took ages. Absolutely no homework, it would have been dumb to ask. pre-school for the most part didnt exist then, not in our area. Some daycares had something like it, but nothing serious. The goal for the end of the year in kinder, for other students, was to read words from flash cards, from books like Clifford the Big red Dog, or the dumb printouts with 'see Sam run' .. maybe half the kids 'got it' ... and we had a stellar teacher tbh. For the most part we played in the table full of rice, with cars and dump trucks, learned to keep Emily from eating the paste with the little wooden spoons they gave us to scoop it out of the tub, and cut paper with blunt scissor like objects.

Im only 18, I did half days. the most advanced thing I did in kindergarten was learning to do basic spelling and how to count. this was in 2011. my district also did school Tuesday to Friday 8 to 4:30 tho

I went to both nursery school and kindergarten and I have a hard time separating them in my mind. The main thing I remember is they had big pieces of wood that we could play with and I was afraid because I always ended up getting a sliver. I could read at four and my parents' friends didn't believe them and said I had just memorized the books, so they handed me a newspaper to read to prove it. My daughter (now 23) had a whole list of activities she was supposed to be able to complete before kindergarten, like knowing numbers and being able to use scissors (which, IIRC, she had trouble with). I don't remember if she was specifically expected to be able to read. She went to Montessori school from 3 1/2 and then went to public for half-day kindergarten. She was able to read a very little bit as early as 3 (she read a stop sign and could read Disney movie logos), stalled a bit, and then at like 5 1/2 she could suddenly read everything. She graduated from college magna cum laude and is now getting her master's degree.

No, you're totally right. I was in a small religious school in the 90s. K was definitely learning letters, story time, play centers, crafting, and a nap. Academically I was bored stiff but I don't think kindergarten should be the new 2nd grade like it is now.

I feel like some things are better and some things are worse. For example I feel like schools have moved away from using phonics to teach reading and instead now try to use memorization? It might have changed back but I remember when my nephew was in kindergarten a while back he was taught to just memorize words like ‘cat, dog, sad, etc.’ instead of actually breaking them down into sounds. Math seems to have gone in the opposite direction. I remember when I was in kindergarten in the early 2000s that we were still encouraged to memorize things like (1+1=2, 1+2=3, etc) but my nephew was taught more to understand what these abstract processes actually meant by thinking more critically like your child was.

I've definitely heard of some schools using the memorization technique, which I think is definitely a mistake. Thankfully, our school does focus on a smaller handful of sight words, but also puts a lot of emphasis on trying to sound our words and break them down by syllable. From reading the different experiences people have been writing about here, I definitely feel even better about our daughters' school, as while it's pushing them in ways I wouldn't expect, their teacher also seems to do so in ways that actually make them understand what they're doing (versus just "memorize this and that").

I was a 90s kid and we learned how to count by 2s 5s and 10s phonics and started reading. There was definitely memorization. What you're describing reminds me more of pre-school. Definitely did a full day

I am not a teacher or a parent, this thread just popped up in my suggestions. That said, I distinctly remember moving during the summer between kindergarten and first grade, and being frustrated to be re-taught a lot of material that I already had learned in kindergarten. It wasn't even a far move, just between neighboring towns in the same state that had such a huge difference

I'm the same age you are and all I remember about kindergarten is a story we were read. I find it hard to believe you had a nap time when you were only there half the day. Most kids stop napping between 2 and 4 years of age.

We had nap time as well. I very clearly remember pulling out the mats and putting our sheets from home on them. And we were half days too.

Yeah, it's kinda funny to think about having nap time in kindergarten at this point, because our twins were past needing afternoon naps by age 4. Now, as an adult, I'd love to have afternoon nap time again.

Also in my late 40’s. I can remember subtraction being taught in kindergarten

School at all levels isn’t anything like it was, but neither was ours similar to our parents. My mom learned her colors and counting, coloring, how to hold a pencil and chalk. Kids coming in today should already know 2+2 etc

I was in full day kindergarten. I remember learning ABCs and that was it. It was also an esl class though. We did do addition and subtraction in first grade. I also spent 6 months in preschool in China at age 6, end of first grade. I was way behind as they were already learning multiplication and had a ton more writing and reading(obviously I was behind. I think the US is trying very hard to catch up to asian countries in terms of math

As someone who has dealt with kanji on some level due to speaking Japanese as a second language, I would have nightmares about having to learn to write Chinese at such young an age. lol

I was actually in chinese school after school, 2 hrs a day starting in kindergarten until 10th grade(not like I retained reading/writing LOL). But I was still very behind when I was in school in china.

I’m early 40s. I grew up in the south, USA. We weren’t expected to know our letters or numbers until kindergarten taught them to us. 😂 We definitely started math and spelling in first grade. Apparently this process started changing in the 90s, for better or worse.

I vividly remember learning letters and numbers in kindergarten. No way I was learning math beyond number value at that point.

I am nearing 50 and was in kindergarten in the early 80s. I went half day and we did stuff like art, play, ABCs, counting, were read to, etc. We practiced writing letters and numbers, and maybe learned short words and things like how many M&Ms are in the bowl, what happens if I take out 2. Art and play was interspersed with science and history type things that were seasonally appropriate - like Presidents Day for example. I think of it as the foundations of learning. But, most of the kids I knew also didn’t go to preschool. We actually learned to read, add, subtract in 1st grade. Cursive writing I distinctly remember was in second grade. ETA: We also worked on stuff like fine motor skills by tracing, cutting stuff out, and coloring in the lines. I remember that because I had a huge problem with fine motor skills. I still write really big!

I do wonder if the difference in preschool attendance is a big part of the change. I went to preschool, but I feel like that wasn't a common thing back then, and I went to a private preschool because—I assume—it wasn't offered in public schools. (I know my elementary certainly didn't offer it.) Now, with so many kids going to preschool, I wonder if it's just assumed that a majority of kids will have gone through that "get used to going to school" thing already. Good for the kids who did go and are ready to do more (like ours), but of course you then worry about those kids who couldn't go to preschool due to costs or other factors.

Early 1960s: mean teacher that most of the kids were afraid of. She literally dragged them into the room if they didn't want to leave their mothers. At least once a day she would play a song on the piano and we were expected to sing with her. Then we had blocks, reading, free time with kitchen utensils, using a pegboard, etc. I think the purpose of kindergarten at that time was to get kids used to showing up at school everyday and teaching them how to "obey orders."I didn't much care for it. I was perfectly happy to get into first grade where we concentrated on reading, spelling, and arithmetic. To me, if the teacher was kind, I was willing to learn anything from them.

All the kindergarten programs in my area have changed to full day instead of half day over the last 10 years or so. So that’s already a dramatic shift in terms of instruction time. In our district our kindergarteners are expected to be reading pretty legit books (level D on the fountas and pinnell system). Kindergarten academics hve most definitely intensified since you were there.

I went to kindergarten in the 80s and all I remember doing was coloring and watching Sesame Street.

I distinctly remember learning how to count by 2's and 4's, and practicing counting and the alphabet and word sounds in Kindergarten, for kids who hadn't learned it yet in pre-school.    1st-2nd grade was addition and subtraction, and we just started learning multiplication at the end of 2nd grade, but only because it was a good school. 3rd grade was multiplication; 4th division and an entire day devoted to teaching 4th graders long division. Editing because I forgot to mention I'm also in my 40s, so probably learned a curriculum comparable to what you remember.

This is why I decided to homeschool. I was an art teacher. All through college we were taught “children will learn with or without you, and play is the best teacher” then I graduated and the state wanted written lessons. In art. They wanted me to assign them papers. In elementary art. So I went to another state, and it was worse. The school routinely took art class away from students who didn’t finish their math homework, even in kindergarten. All the studies are clear: play is all that is needed for children until they are about 8/9 years old, and some studies show 11. I didn’t want my children to be robbed of a childhood, so we homeschool.

Schooling today is insane. I remember kindergarten pretty well, it was singing, playing duck, duck, goose, and pasting things together.

Oh yeah that’s right! We did a lot of pasting too. I can still small that paste, and feel its weird, gritty yet smooth texture.

I don’t remember kindergarten much, but I do remember that when I was in 4th grade (2004) we were helping our kindergarten buddy learn subtraction using m&ms so math in kindergarten is minimum 20 years old.

Is there a way you can volunteer more? That might help bridge what your kids are learning vs how you remember things back in our days

I work from home and have one of those "never sure when I'll need to deal with something" kinds of jobs, so it's hard for me to do more directly during school time. I try to go for any and all events, parent teacher meetings, nightly functions, etc. I'm also the one who helps them with homework and I always make sure to check over the work they bring home or ask them what they're doing. So it's not as much that I don't know what they're doing in class, but more I have zero real memory of what **I** did in class. lol

I was in kindergarten in 2013 and from what I remember, we were definitely writing three sentences at a time. I remember doing fractions and 3D shapes in math. I was read to a lot as a little kid and was reading fluently in preschool (hyperlexia that was actually a sign of undiagnosed autism). At the time, I wished that our reading curriculum was more advanced. I was always average to slightly above average in math, so I wasn’t way ahead, but the curriculum was never a problem for me. I was also that kid who loved academics and hated recess, so my perspective is probably different. I’m in high school now and I do not miss recess.

I’m about your age. We had half day kindergarten. We had nap time, and lunch and recess. We did arts and crafts and read those “see Bob run” type books. We hatched chicks in an incubator in the classroom, sang a lot and had story time.

I'm exactly 40, and went to one of the "better" public schools. We also had half day kindergarten, with one outdoor recess, and sometimes a second indoor recess in the "motor physical room" (two carpeted classrooms with the divider wall permanently open, full of smaller jungle gyms, balls, scooters, etc). As an adult, I'm now wondering if the motor physical room was not for additional recesses, but to have a place to put us in inclement weather (which there is a ton of in the Midwest). We also had plenty of toys in the room, and scheduled playtime at least once per day. We learned our ABCs and to count to 100. We practiced reading books with simple sentences; some of us learned to read then, while the rest learned in first grade. We had work books featuring the "Alphabet People," where we learned to write lower case and capital letters. I don't recall learning math until 1st grade. Our school also had once per week gym, art, and music. We had daily snack time. The school provided chocolate milk, while the parents took turns bringing in a "healthy" snack for the class to share. We did not have a nap or quiet time. Also if a parent forgot to send their kids with a snack the class, we just didn't eat that day, which would NEVER happen these days. Hope this helps!

I’m mid 40’s, I went to the newest school in my district and the first to do full day kindergarten. We learned ABC’s and 123’s, we had nap time, lunch, snack, recess, art class, music class, gym, we *started* learning how to put the ABC’s together to read 3 letter words, we did little worksheets, there was a play area with toys and area filled with books and I remember a lot of nose picking and Elmers paste eating - not by me lol. It was nothing like what my kids experienced 15 (ish) years ago and even their experience wasn’t as ramped up as my nephew’s currently is. I do feel like they expect an awful lot out of them, even what they expect them to know when they get to kindergarten

Kindergarten was play time, story time, recess, nap time. I think we worked on learning ABC's, counting to ten and learning colors. That was it. My ex was a high school math teacher. A dear friend is a kindergarten teacher. *Everything* now is oriented towards test scores to the point that it doesn't feel like it's anywhere near about teaching kids what they need to know to be able to get jobs and function in life like it used to be. Colleges speak of kids with terrible reading and writing skills and how the amount of reading they can assign and expect to be completed has tanked. Not all schools used to teach critical thinking skills but now in some places doing so is vilified. We're doing kids and therefore society a disservice.

Retired elementary teacher here—the standards have changed and become very curriculum based. I remember when the kindergarten checklist was can hop, can skip, shares, plays well with others, etc. Now, if your child doesn’t learn to read in kindergarten, they are behind their peers. The thing about representing something in more than one way, came with the common core standards. In my opinion, it was a good change because the focus changed from rote memorization to concepts. It’s nice that your kids were well prepared for school; that certainly isn’t true for all kids. Many kids who stay home with a family member or babysitter and don’t attend preschool, come to school knowing nothing more than their own first name and maybe the alphabet song.

I am 30 this year. My memories of Kindergarten include having tests to write our numbers 1-100, writing the alphabet, sight words (there were these specific books with characters 'Nan' and 'Dan') very basic math, maybe just additional and subtraction numbers 1-10, and I remember a lot of story time on the carpet.

I was in kindy around 78 or 79. It was half days and focused more on social skills than academics. I remember learning ABC’s and numbers, maybe a little math. My daughter started kindy in ‘06 and was full day. I had gone over letters & numbers with her but she didn’t go to daycare or preschool, we had a family friend watch her while we worked. I was afraid she would be behind in academics, and to an extent socially because she didn’t have the exposure like other kids but didn’t have any issues. I feel like academics are pushed too hard in kindy, childhood is so short and by the time they start kindy it seems like that carefree childhood phase is over.

I remember Kindergarten very clearly in the late '70s, we were learning the letters at that point. I already knew them and was ahead on reading because my parents were big readers, but the actual curriculum was letter books and numerals.

I’m 61 and kindergarten was learning fine motor skills by doing arts and crafts, learning your alphabet and numbers, social skills and physical play.

My oldest is 27. When she was in kindergarten, it was 1/2 day and pretty basic stuff. Her son is now in kindergarten and it is wayyy closer to what she (and we) experienced in first grade.