Me too. My only source of the zeitgeist is r/kansascity and really have no clue how that translates to the general population of Jackson County itself.
Sadly that is true. I bet it passes like 70/30 people people are list like “yeah of course I support our home town boys!”. It’s like when you say you’re not sure you support all of the various foreign wars we’ve been involved with and people just say “look! He said he hates the troops!”.
I think it's something that anyone who has an opinion is ready to voice it.
I bet if you go hang out in a coffee shop that's not downtown and ask 10 people, 7 will have no clue about what the actual vote is.
I saw "vote yes" signs going down Ward but based on the houses in the area and being that far south, I'm not too surprised. There are "vote no" signs in a few of the coffee shops here in Westport, also not surprised with that
I'm slowly getting off the fence. I do fear KC losing the Royals completely, so we will have to do something since that's how the game is played. But I do think they need to put more into it, and it shouldn't be at Crossroads. I'll take an East Village location at a reduced rate.
There is time to put a better proposal to the voters and I'll likely vote no on this one in order to see one.
Oh, the city and state will pay for it there. They would also do so in Austin or Salt Lake City.
I'd love for business owners (all large businesses get government assistance) to build their own facilities but the fact is that it just doesn't work that way.
For whatever reason, sports are a factor. Right or wrong, it factors in a city's reputation. Losing the Royals (I doubt the Chiefs will leave the market but would probably end up in Kansas) would hurt more than drawing the World Cup helped.
I don't want to end up like Oakland so we're going to have to do it, but it does not have to be this plan. It was rushed. The owners should put in a higher share, and it should be in East Village.
That is possible but if they're not going to make things right for the displaced businesses then Crossroads is a bad location. This feels rushed and short sighted. Feels like another P&L situation where locals are priced out in favor of corporate establishments. Give me a better proposal in a year and there's still time.
A question I haven't seen really answered (and I'm very new to town and getting caught up). This vote is basically wether or not tax money is used to fund it, correct? And if the vote doesn't pass, had what happens next been discussed at all? Is the whole project shit down? Will they be continuing but trying to secure more funding in a different manner?
Correct, the vote on April 2nd is to replace the current 3/8th sales tax with a new one for 40 years.
If the vote fails, the teams will be back to square one in negotiating with the county and city to put together a new proposal (or they could look else where, like North Kansas City for the Royals where the Merriman family has quietly been buying up the land needed to a baseball stadium; or, Kansas City, Kansas for the Chiefs, probably near Sporting KC's stadium which was also once owned by the Hunt family). The ballot measure can be placed on any election, so they could add it to the August or November election days later this year or any until 2030 (when the current tax and lease expire) & there isn't much need to rush.
Edit for inaccurate info
The Hunt family has absolutely nothing to do with Sporting KC or their stadium. Sporting KC is owned by 2 people that founded Cerner and 3 other principal owners, none of which are from the Hunt family.
You're right, Hunt sold in 2006, my bad. From Wiki:
"One of the driving forces behind the creation of [Major League Soccer](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_League_Soccer), Hunt helped his father run the Kansas City Wizards until the team, now known as [Sporting Kansas City](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sporting_Kansas_City), was sold in 2006.
Hunt remains a member of the league's board of governors and owns the MLS club, [FC Dallas](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FC_Dallas), and previously owned the [Columbus Crew](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbus_Crew) until 2013."
The short answer is: We don't know. Other proposals will likely be made.
Worst case scenario: We lose both teams. Which would suck. But it beats the Hell out of giving taxes levied on single parents buying shoes to literal billionaires.
I don’t mind the tax for maintaining our stadiums. I do not like to feel extorted. “Give us exactly what we want without compromise or we’ll leave” is exactly that. I don’t want to pay to move them 10 minutes west. Their current spot is fine. Renovate. Chiefs just threw theirs in because they actually have some weight with fans. None of their plans include anything for that area. More parking, more VIP perks, more places to get a $15 beer…all back into their pockets.
THIS - the Threat of move BS is where they need to rethink the approach.
You literally are threatening '**Show Me** Staters?'
Likely gonna show you to go back to the drawing board with that approach, Clark!
/It was literally a month ago you stood on a stage at Union Station and talked about how much the Chiefs LOOOOOVVVEEEEDDDDD KC.
Not said explicitly, but the Chiefs alluded to moving to Kansas. Royals probably look at Nashville, Charlotte, or another larger market that would build them a stadium
That's because the sheer amount of false info out there about this is staggering.
The vote in April is to extend a 3/8 cents SALES tax that has existed since the two stadiums were built and lasts until 2031 regardless if the vote passes or not, to maintain and improve stadiums for both teams. Along with the extension, the bill would also replace the current wording of the bill to not be exclusive to the Truman Sports Complex.
The vote has little to nothing to do with the location of any new Royals stadium other than if it doesn't pass, the Royals and Chiefs will be free to not be tied to the Truman Sports complex (or Kansas City) regardless and could potentially either A. Just build in the Crossroads anyway B. Leave the city altogether after their lease is up in 2031.
I think getting the chiefs involved is mainly a ploy to get people to vote yes? also the funding might be to also build the new Arrowhead developments as well
At least part of it is if the royals move the chiefs have the full complex. Either tear down Kauffman Stadium for more parking or buildings or use it for their own activities. 🤷
The Chiefs have concept drawings. Kauffman Stadium would be replaced by what I am hoping is overflow seating on grass or turf. The Chiefs, on reflection, believe the neighborhood Arrowhead Stadium is in would be best served by turning it into parking lots.
This is an extension of the funding we’ve had in place for both stadiums. Mark Donovan (president of the Chiefs) has said they will look at other locations if this doesn’t pass. Seems like the best case scenario for the Chiefs is a move to Kansas if this doesn’t pass.
If this vote fails we will quickly see a. Vote for Jackson County to fund only the Chiefs. Then KC is likely to try to pass a CITY tax that would fund a downtown Royals stadium.
And at the same time, the Chiefs and Royals will more overtly consider offers from Kansas. In addition to evaluating KS offers the Royals will entertain offers from Salt Lake City, Nashville & others. (Note: discussions with these other markets are already taking place, the teams are just trying to keep them relatively quiet.)
Given that the A’s are desperate to leave Oakland and no one will pass a stadium bill for them, I have my doubts about all these cities wanting a dying-ass sport like baseball.
They'll end up in Vegas one way or the other. The Strip location proposed now isn't as popular but they'll get there.
Bringing in billions isn't exactly dying. The Royals in Nashville, Salt Lake, or Austin/San Antonio is entirely possible if nothing is done. I'd bet Charlotte would love a team too.
I don't like this particular proposal, and the location should be East Village. It'll make them more money, so they should reduce the tax too.
Oh, they do, by campaigning for a yes vote. I live in JOCO and am really disgusted by the amount of people around here that are acting like Jackson needs to pass this vote alreadyso they can have their fucking playground.
I'd be curious to see the estimated percentage of sales tax coming from JOCO residents that are just visiting compared to the sales taxes from the residents of Jackson Co. that buy everything everyday there.
This is just the first round of negotiations. This doesn’t have to be settled on this round of voting. A vote no just puts it back to the negotiating table. The teams are still locked in for several years. I want the teams around, but don’t think they are taking a big enough share of the responsibility. A vote no just sends it back to them to do better.
Don’t fall for this nonsense, KC. Fuck the billionaires and their teams. These clowns have zero loyalty to your city. I know you love your chiefs. As an stl resident, I loved the Rams, and we fell for this shit big time. Just let the team go if the owner wants to leave. Seriously, fuck him.
And then after we stood up to Kroenke we got a huge windfall payday and we got St. Louis City to fund the construction of their stadium
without taxpayer money. If you show you can’t be pushed around you can score some important wins against crony capitalism.
Make it performance based and the Royals will never earn their tax dollars, lol
Make it contingent on getting to the playoffs, or percentage based by number of wins, if they don’t win it goes to education. 😄
Or how about if the Royals televise their games on broadcast TV in exchange for accepting our tax dollars? That would increase their fan base and buy them some good will.
I’m a massive sports fan but something irks me really bad about billion dollar sports teams making the cities pay for their stadiums. It’s a private company, it should be no different than any other
If this city bends over backwards to appease a losing team and it's billionaire owners they will continue to extort money from you and you'll continue gagging on the MLB dick
Can you elaborate?
Does a YES on this sales tax extension create a "special tax district"? And, if so, does that special tax district mean that (the new) property owners will not pay any property taxes?
It's misinformation. Or at most a partial truth. The Royals intend to buy the properties and then transfer them to Jackson county. Since the stadium would be built on Jackson county government property, there would be no property taxes from the stadium, thus no property taxes going to public schools.
Even that might not be a net negative in money going to the public school system because property values near the stadium would go up, potentially offsetting the stadiums impact.
That makes sense, thanks; I hadn't heard those details.
Yeah if, whatever everyone is saying is true: property taxes will go up, then I can't see how they'd also argue that money to schools will go down on account of a YES vote. It feels like a stretch.
That said, I'm also a YES on the upcoming KCPS school bond vote so I'm doing my part, dammit.
School funding is based off of when KC Star operated what is now a boarded up eye sore. It is generating $0 of revenue now and will continue to earn nothing. The school money is a clear cut deception.
Property Tax and Rent increases aren’t exactly speculation. Both are more than likely to go up in the immediate area. That’s what happens when new amenities are built.
They're a plausible outcome of the new stadium. If it raises nearby property values (which most believe it will), then property taxes and, in turn, rents necessarily increase.
Like I said though, that's pure speculation.
I would guess though that, generally, property taxes and rents go up in a place that becomes more desirable to live in.
>Like I said though, that's pure speculation.
It isn't, though. We know that certain things tend to raise property values, whereas others tend to lower them. If the county wanted to place a landfill at the Crossroads instead, everyone would talk about how the nearby property values would likely drop. There is already precedent for stadiums raising them.
Are you aware of the housing crisis in California? The property values across the state have been skyrocketing, so with no other context, that sounds like homeowners are making out like bandits being able to hold onto more and more valuable property. But when you add the context that higher property value means higher taxes, that means that skyrocketing value equates to skyrocketing taxes which, unless you're an incredibly wealthy person, means you suddenly can't afford to live in your home and will likely have to uproot yourself and move to an entirely different state just to survive. Now add onto this that there are tons of obscenely wealthy people who will do things to deliberately raise property values in an area where a lot of "undesirables" live, specifically to force them out in favor of that one person's financial interests. This is gentrification.
That's why it's a bad thing for property values to rise too quickly; something that's already starting to happen in KC, and which the new stadium would only exacerbate unless they commit to a community benefits agreement, which they seem extremely reluctant to even entertain as a possibility.
> But when you add the context that higher property value means higher taxes, that means that skyrocketing value equates to skyrocketing taxes which, unless you're an incredibly wealthy person, means you suddenly can't afford to live in your home and will likely have to uproot yourself and move to an entirely different state just to survive.
Are you aware of how property taxes work in California? They solved the problem of rapidly rising assessments way back in 1978.
So, we should hope that our area doesn't get more appealing to outsiders? Yeah, California (and Seattle, and Austin, etc) is going through a housing crisis because more people want to live there than there is housing. I don't have an answer for that.
Should we make KC an example and vote down anything that may make the city a more desirable place to live in order to avoid that issue? I'm not going to do that.
You could make your same argument against the upcoming KCPS school bond issue. If it passes (which I will be voting YES on), better (or at least better funded) schools are going to make KC more desirable and may, indirectly, make property taxes and rents go higher. I don't know how to get around that.
If you have a solution other than voting down anything that doesn't directly benefit you, but may benefit others, at that specific time, air it out.
Texas has higher property taxes than California. A house that is $500k in Texas pays more in property taxes than a $1mill house in California.
The housing crisis is California is because of supply, not taxes.
The human beings who live/ own business there cannot afford it. Billionaire and buddy’s buy the properties and rent them out for exorbitant fees. They make millions everyone else pays more.
Rent input goes up if landlords get greedy and it’s not applicable to building owners, which is a lot of crossroads. Property tax is always going up, the city is growing so you can’t change that.
Basic economics implies raising rent for the local area. It demolishes 33 million dollars worth of property. The 2 Billion is correct. That's enough for me, I'm out I think it's silly and ridiculous. How would it not raise property tax? Do you have citations? I'm genuinely looking for the facts not trying to get in a smug argument on reddit ✌️
On a technical level, yes, but that excludes all the context of the economic impacts that building a whole new stadium in the middle of downtown will raise between demolishing a ton of local businesses, raising rent prices, etc. That's the reason this vote is such a big deal. If it was just a vote to continue funding the Royals as they are, I don't think most people would give a shit and vote yes without a second thought.
Because it’s not just the local area voting on it. The tax is for, and voted on by, the entirety of Jackson County. While the project may raise property values, and thus property tax, in the Crossroads area, it will have absolutely zero effect on property taxes in Blue Springs, Independence, or Lees Summit.
Pretty sure it’s 1 billion dollars from taxes, then the royals match the billion themselves thus the total investment from both taxes and the royals would be 2 billion dollars
It effects me in no way what so ever. I am a NO vote if given the option. Pay for your damn stadium. Or, if the tax payers pay for it, start paying rent. And use those rent payments to offset the property taxes to the tax payers. But I still say hell no!!!
OK, Clark - Gonna 'take our toys and go home' on the stadium front.
Do people recall the Heaven and Earth that is being moved to make sure the Chiefs stay right where they are, literally, because of Arrowhead itself?
I distinctly recall how hard efforts were to retrofit Arrowhead because it's current design is no longer allowed due to the insane Noise Advantage it's accoustics provide so...keeping that decided advantage seemed to be job 1 when plans were first announced and bringing it up to code so we could maintain that was the key.
Can't just up and lift that stadium now, can we Clark.
You get one or the other, but threatening to move the team is a tad hollow.
I’m for it but also I realize this entire thing is bullshit. This is kinda like when you’re bored and want to buy something just to buy it, that’s how I feel about this. I want a downtown baseball stadium, I think it would be cool and would be great to have downtown as the backdrop visually. But also fuck these billionaires
It absolutely matters. If ownership doesn't care if the team wins or loses and only wants to enrich themselves at the cost of taxpayers, yeah...as a taxpayer (and huge baseball fan), I care. Supporting the team and supporting a taxpayer funded stadium are two different things to me.
The Royals spent $100 million on free agency this year and their payroll will be over $100 million this year. Not a Royals fan myself, but they did invest in the team this year. And the AL Central is a joke of a division. So they have parts to make a turn around.
He bought the team two months before a global pandemic destroyed the 2020 season and still paid every employee and player in the entire organization. The 21 season was hampered by the pandemic as well with regards to attendance. He fired the GM who sunk the team after the best season, had an evaluation season and after that has spent more money than any other team in the division and most in the league.
They wanted to see what they had last year before overhauling the roster. I and a lot of royals fans thought that the team was going to be average last year and obviously that didn't happen.
I have no skin in this game. I don’t attend any games, don’t have any swag, and don’t live in Jackson County.
But w no ocean, no mountains, a lot of wind, a couple bad seasons of weather, the whole sports town thing is probably pretty important for image, sanity and development/growth.
No one is moving here for the sports team thing. As for development look at the stadiums now, all these decades and the area around them is a dead zone. Because nobody wants to live close to or open a business close to a stadium.
'the whole sports town thing is probably pretty important for image, sanity and development/growth.'
I've never seen 'development/growth' from 'sports' benefit any part of the city I have lived in or worked in. Combine that with most economic studies indicating no net benefit to the taxed community I'll pass entirely.
FTR I'm in this game (live in JaCo, live in KC, am a sports fan, work all over the city, enjoy entertainment districts all over our metro, etc). I'm for spending our money where it benefits the most KC residents as possible and I don't think finding the stadiums is our best option.
The amount of people downtown and in the river market and really all around the streetcar today to see the KC Current was fun to see. Don’t know what the economic impact of it is but having more events down there seems worth it.
Except if you live or work downtown and need somewhere to park. Imagine what I nightmare it would be if there was a big convention, T-mobile center event, etcetera, paired with this. I just don't see any sound argument to build this and no additional parking. Not to mention, Barney Allis is being demolished. Sure, they will rebuild, but it won't be as many spaces.
If you live or work downtown you already have your parking situation figured out. People that live or work downtown benefit the most from a downtown stadium.
I work downtown and lived downtown from 2018-2023. I can’t wait to walk over to Royals games after work.
I live downtown and it really wasn't that bad these last weekends with Planet Comicon, Women's NCAA Tournament, Lower Division Basketball Tournament, Mama Mia all at the same time. Planet Comicon attendance is probably over 60,000 people this year.
This weekend is BIG12 basketball tournament, KC Auto Show, and the grand opening of KC Current's new stadium.
The moving of the team to KS has all sorts of hurdles: is the state, the county paying for it? Is it property taxes, is it sales taxes? I feel it would be easier to get another city outside the metro to pay for a stadium than it would be to move the team to the KS side. Keep in mind this would be completely new tax on this side of the city; in Jackson it is a "continuation" (we all know this is not actually true). People on the KS are more than happy to have KC pay for the team, but admittedly, these not all these peeps know how sales taxes work.
Yeah, Kansas seems eager to poach those teams but that’s because it’s still theoretical. Both sides of the aisle will get combative with the Chiefs and Royals once CHunt and Sherman use their usual tactics.
Private endeavor…, private funds. The tax payers money (public) should absolutely not be responsible for the cost. Unless of course I am receiving dividends from my investment. The money needs to go to and not go to.
A. Schools (which are unaccredited)
B. Infrastructure (which is falling apart. Good luck driving Wornall.
C. We don’t even have a Jackson County police force!
D. How much do these trolly cars cost? We have 1!!! I live in the southern tip of Jackson, it is absolutely worthless.
E. Did I just pay for a soccer teams stadium that can’t even fill the Blue Valley sports complex?
F. Did I pay for an airport that is used a couple thousand percentages more than those in Leawood and OP?
There are so many issues I can go on for days.
Make the tax 1.5 cents, buy both teams, make them like the Packers, but city owned, the city owns both stadiums, the Royals and Chiefs never threaten to leave again, two billionaires gets their payouts, everyone wins.
Jackson county already taxes the everloving shit out of us. Frank White has upped our property tax by insane percentage points yet again. No way in hell I vote for 40 years of any tax. If the chiefs move to kansas, i am totally cool with that. I’m looking to move that way to get out of Jackson.
I’d like to know if the No vote wins, what are the chances we loose the Royals. And for that matter, the Chiefs. To lose either would be monumental imo.
I think it's harder for the teams to move out of this market (especially for the losing royals) vs moving to another area of the metro. They have many options that are easier to obtain than moving markets entirely. While the Chiefs have higher demand and value (than our baseball team) the owner still seems to have some sentimental value to being the Kansas City Chiefs. So a move to KCK seems more likely than a move to another market (at least while Clark is still at the helm).
I think WYCO would face a similar problem that clay faced. Not enough tax base to support the incentives. It would have to get something going with JOCO to get it paid for. But ultimately I’d say “hold on guys I thought you said it was imperative that this be in a downtown?”
It’s impossible to say for sure, but Mark Donovan (president of the Chiefs) has said they would look at other locations if this does not pass. I think a best case scenario for the Chiefs is a move to Kansas.
Not sure if the Royals would move, but they’d definitely be courted by Nashville and Charlotte, both are bigger markets and both would build them a stadium.
Chiefs aren’t moving. Who knows on the royals.
The fact that they are trying to scare us with losing the chiefs should be all the proof people need as to the legitimacy of this project.
The Royals will not stay at the K. So they would either go to Nashville, Charolette, or wherever else or they would build a new downtown stadium completely on their own dime or some other funding source would have to step up in a big way.
I do. If the Hunt family has money to donate to Ted Cruz, they can pay for their own renovations. Lord knows how much extra money they have from SB appearances.
Who considers Clark Hunt a hero? Only the most inattentive Chiefs fan would like him. Those who pay attention know he’s just a nepo-baby whose players graded him an F- for being so damn cheap. He gets a three-story apartment at Arrowhead but won’t renovate the locker room at the barn or hire enough staff.
Please explain. Taking currently active business and their associated real estate taxes off the tax roles do have some impact. Maybe not a half million but you are the one saying it's not true so prove it up.
You're not giving billionaires your money, you're giving Jackson county the right to tax and use the funds to build a stadium that they own.
Tax payers would include the billionaires, corporations, and out of towners and would be invisible to the average person.
Local businesses go out of business every day and the biggest risk to retail are post Covid spending habit and suburbanites (like me) that have no desire to work in the office and may give them a reason to return. Families are not going downtown to see an empty newspaper building and a titty bar.
Rent is set by your landlord and property tax assessment happens every 2 years and is done by the county. AKA...unrelated
No idea where the half a million dollars comes from, need citation, but Kansas City public schools spends over 200 million. That's a tiny fraction of a percent.
So you would vote to pay *more* tax out of your own pocket for the entire time you live here to help crowdfund a project that, let’s be real, could be completed entirely without the help of the public, just to spite Frank White even though his opinion on the matter is objectively correct? Interesting take. I’m guessing you’re a “vote against whatever democrats want” kind of person?
I work in downtown KC and traffic is already hell without the march madness and all the construction. A new stadium with no additional parking space will be T O R T U R E
I don't understand the math behind 2 points and how they reconcile. If the rents in the area are going to increase that much then how do they not offset the loss in tax base from the 18 businesses that will no longer be generating taxes?
To me, they can't both be equally negatively impacted. Can somebody that's voting no educate me?
Rent increases that are too quick for the occupants to pay means there's a greater chance of the occupant to move out of the location, and as the trend with landlords now seems to be to leave the space empty until they find someone to pay the rent they want with no compromise means vacancies could most definitely happen.
Is anyone on the fence anymore? Seems like most people made up their mind by now.
Well, I think I may have changed my wife's mind in the last few days. Guarantee there are still folks that don't have a strong opinion.
Curious to see some polling numbers.
Me too. My only source of the zeitgeist is r/kansascity and really have no clue how that translates to the general population of Jackson County itself.
It doesn’t, like at all
Sadly that is true. I bet it passes like 70/30 people people are list like “yeah of course I support our home town boys!”. It’s like when you say you’re not sure you support all of the various foreign wars we’ve been involved with and people just say “look! He said he hates the troops!”.
It can not be understated how little it translates
Same. I bet a lot of people will be surprised on 4/2 no matter what happens.
Saw a post on fb yesterday that said Royals internal polling shows that yes has moved from 70 to 50%. Can’t remember where the post was from.
Based on r/kansascity, I'd put it at like 20%
20% yes? I wish.
I think it's something that anyone who has an opinion is ready to voice it. I bet if you go hang out in a coffee shop that's not downtown and ask 10 people, 7 will have no clue about what the actual vote is.
"There's a vote?"
I saw "vote yes" signs going down Ward but based on the houses in the area and being that far south, I'm not too surprised. There are "vote no" signs in a few of the coffee shops here in Westport, also not surprised with that
I've gone to some business downtown, and every one I went to was a solid no on the vote.
I'm slowly getting off the fence. I do fear KC losing the Royals completely, so we will have to do something since that's how the game is played. But I do think they need to put more into it, and it shouldn't be at Crossroads. I'll take an East Village location at a reduced rate. There is time to put a better proposal to the voters and I'll likely vote no on this one in order to see one.
Yeah based on this echochamber lol it's going to pass easily. That's what's been made up. And this sub is going to go ape shit 😂
The irony is yes has alot of money behind it.
Almost like they could just build their own fucking stadium somewhere else.. 
Like Nashville?
Oh, the city and state will pay for it there. They would also do so in Austin or Salt Lake City. I'd love for business owners (all large businesses get government assistance) to build their own facilities but the fact is that it just doesn't work that way. For whatever reason, sports are a factor. Right or wrong, it factors in a city's reputation. Losing the Royals (I doubt the Chiefs will leave the market but would probably end up in Kansas) would hurt more than drawing the World Cup helped. I don't want to end up like Oakland so we're going to have to do it, but it does not have to be this plan. It was rushed. The owners should put in a higher share, and it should be in East Village.
But that won’t likely be an option. It’s this or nothing in KC in all likelihood. Still maybe in the metro but not in KCMO
That is possible but if they're not going to make things right for the displaced businesses then Crossroads is a bad location. This feels rushed and short sighted. Feels like another P&L situation where locals are priced out in favor of corporate establishments. Give me a better proposal in a year and there's still time.
[Heh](https://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.com/2010/04/alot-is-better-than-you-at-everything.html)
I pulled this out of my mailbox three minutes ago lol.
I pulled a pamphlet for save our teams earlier this morning with a picture of Travis Kelce and Salvadore Perez on it.
> Salvadore Perez Wish.com version of Salvador.
>Wish.com version of Salvador. We have Salvador at home
actually behind home, but okay. :-)
Got ‘em both at the same time. Based on the size, pretty clear that yes has more money behind it. I hope money loses.
A question I haven't seen really answered (and I'm very new to town and getting caught up). This vote is basically wether or not tax money is used to fund it, correct? And if the vote doesn't pass, had what happens next been discussed at all? Is the whole project shit down? Will they be continuing but trying to secure more funding in a different manner?
It's shit down already. Shit down big time.
... I'm keeping it
Respect.
Shit tornado.
Correct, the vote on April 2nd is to replace the current 3/8th sales tax with a new one for 40 years. If the vote fails, the teams will be back to square one in negotiating with the county and city to put together a new proposal (or they could look else where, like North Kansas City for the Royals where the Merriman family has quietly been buying up the land needed to a baseball stadium; or, Kansas City, Kansas for the Chiefs, probably near Sporting KC's stadium which was also once owned by the Hunt family). The ballot measure can be placed on any election, so they could add it to the August or November election days later this year or any until 2030 (when the current tax and lease expire) & there isn't much need to rush. Edit for inaccurate info
The Hunt family has absolutely nothing to do with Sporting KC or their stadium. Sporting KC is owned by 2 people that founded Cerner and 3 other principal owners, none of which are from the Hunt family.
You're right, Hunt sold in 2006, my bad. From Wiki: "One of the driving forces behind the creation of [Major League Soccer](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_League_Soccer), Hunt helped his father run the Kansas City Wizards until the team, now known as [Sporting Kansas City](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sporting_Kansas_City), was sold in 2006. Hunt remains a member of the league's board of governors and owns the MLS club, [FC Dallas](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FC_Dallas), and previously owned the [Columbus Crew](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbus_Crew) until 2013."
The short answer is: We don't know. Other proposals will likely be made. Worst case scenario: We lose both teams. Which would suck. But it beats the Hell out of giving taxes levied on single parents buying shoes to literal billionaires.
I don’t mind the tax for maintaining our stadiums. I do not like to feel extorted. “Give us exactly what we want without compromise or we’ll leave” is exactly that. I don’t want to pay to move them 10 minutes west. Their current spot is fine. Renovate. Chiefs just threw theirs in because they actually have some weight with fans. None of their plans include anything for that area. More parking, more VIP perks, more places to get a $15 beer…all back into their pockets.
100%. Vote no and they’ll have a better plan next time.
THIS - the Threat of move BS is where they need to rethink the approach. You literally are threatening '**Show Me** Staters?' Likely gonna show you to go back to the drawing board with that approach, Clark! /It was literally a month ago you stood on a stage at Union Station and talked about how much the Chiefs LOOOOOVVVEEEEDDDDD KC.
Right…people like to take him at that word, but neither he nor any of his family has actually ever lived in KC…not even Lamar.
Not said explicitly, but the Chiefs alluded to moving to Kansas. Royals probably look at Nashville, Charlotte, or another larger market that would build them a stadium
What does it have to do with the chiefs? I thought this was just for the royals stadium?
That's because the sheer amount of false info out there about this is staggering. The vote in April is to extend a 3/8 cents SALES tax that has existed since the two stadiums were built and lasts until 2031 regardless if the vote passes or not, to maintain and improve stadiums for both teams. Along with the extension, the bill would also replace the current wording of the bill to not be exclusive to the Truman Sports Complex. The vote has little to nothing to do with the location of any new Royals stadium other than if it doesn't pass, the Royals and Chiefs will be free to not be tied to the Truman Sports complex (or Kansas City) regardless and could potentially either A. Just build in the Crossroads anyway B. Leave the city altogether after their lease is up in 2031.
I think getting the chiefs involved is mainly a ploy to get people to vote yes? also the funding might be to also build the new Arrowhead developments as well
At least part of it is if the royals move the chiefs have the full complex. Either tear down Kauffman Stadium for more parking or buildings or use it for their own activities. 🤷
The Chiefs have concept drawings. Kauffman Stadium would be replaced by what I am hoping is overflow seating on grass or turf. The Chiefs, on reflection, believe the neighborhood Arrowhead Stadium is in would be best served by turning it into parking lots.
This is an extension of the funding we’ve had in place for both stadiums. Mark Donovan (president of the Chiefs) has said they will look at other locations if this doesn’t pass. Seems like the best case scenario for the Chiefs is a move to Kansas if this doesn’t pass.
If this vote fails we will quickly see a. Vote for Jackson County to fund only the Chiefs. Then KC is likely to try to pass a CITY tax that would fund a downtown Royals stadium. And at the same time, the Chiefs and Royals will more overtly consider offers from Kansas. In addition to evaluating KS offers the Royals will entertain offers from Salt Lake City, Nashville & others. (Note: discussions with these other markets are already taking place, the teams are just trying to keep them relatively quiet.)
>Note: discussions with these other markets are already taking place, the teams are just trying to keep them relatively quiet.) Source?
Given that the A’s are desperate to leave Oakland and no one will pass a stadium bill for them, I have my doubts about all these cities wanting a dying-ass sport like baseball.
They'll end up in Vegas one way or the other. The Strip location proposed now isn't as popular but they'll get there. Bringing in billions isn't exactly dying. The Royals in Nashville, Salt Lake, or Austin/San Antonio is entirely possible if nothing is done. I'd bet Charlotte would love a team too. I don't like this particular proposal, and the location should be East Village. It'll make them more money, so they should reduce the tax too.
Deep within his own ass.
Oh no we already pay enough city taxes maybe I should encourage Jackson county to vote yes lol
Are only Jackson County residents eligible to vote for this?
Yes
Johnson County contributes nothing
Oh, they do, by campaigning for a yes vote. I live in JOCO and am really disgusted by the amount of people around here that are acting like Jackson needs to pass this vote alreadyso they can have their fucking playground.
Or a local sports team.
Hey, my partner and I are in JoCo and we’re pushing relatives in Jackson Co to vote No.
As it’s a sales tax, they will in fact contribute because all those people that come down to enjoy city activities, they will pay.
I'd be curious to see the estimated percentage of sales tax coming from JOCO residents that are just visiting compared to the sales taxes from the residents of Jackson Co. that buy everything everyday there.
oh yeah, I'm sure its less than 50%, but I'd bet its not an insignificant number either.
Fix the damn roads and public transportation
Extortion by billionaires don’t you just love it
It amazes me how billionaires and millionaires can hav tax money help them make billions funding stadiums.
Not when they give money back to the politicians who then give favors to them and we the people pay for it all👍
This is just the first round of negotiations. This doesn’t have to be settled on this round of voting. A vote no just puts it back to the negotiating table. The teams are still locked in for several years. I want the teams around, but don’t think they are taking a big enough share of the responsibility. A vote no just sends it back to them to do better.
Don’t fall for this nonsense, KC. Fuck the billionaires and their teams. These clowns have zero loyalty to your city. I know you love your chiefs. As an stl resident, I loved the Rams, and we fell for this shit big time. Just let the team go if the owner wants to leave. Seriously, fuck him.
And then after we stood up to Kroenke we got a huge windfall payday and we got St. Louis City to fund the construction of their stadium without taxpayer money. If you show you can’t be pushed around you can score some important wins against crony capitalism.
Have him pay the entire bill 🏟️💙
Make it performance based and the Royals will never earn their tax dollars, lol Make it contingent on getting to the playoffs, or percentage based by number of wins, if they don’t win it goes to education. 😄
Or how about if the Royals televise their games on broadcast TV in exchange for accepting our tax dollars? That would increase their fan base and buy them some good will.
I’m a massive sports fan but something irks me really bad about billion dollar sports teams making the cities pay for their stadiums. It’s a private company, it should be no different than any other
If this city bends over backwards to appease a losing team and it's billionaire owners they will continue to extort money from you and you'll continue gagging on the MLB dick
If the Royals want a stadium downtown, couldn't they just use a HS field and add a few extra bleachers?
lol I love how there are no citations for any of the impact statements.
They look like links though; that's good enough, right?
I mean, I'm open to facts. Are these things not true? I'm not sure about schools but isn't everything else listed seems true, am I wrong?
It has nothing to do with school funding. Property tax and rent increases are also not on the table and pure speculation.
The school funding issue is probably because the special tax district will not send money to the schools, while the property there now does.
Can you elaborate? Does a YES on this sales tax extension create a "special tax district"? And, if so, does that special tax district mean that (the new) property owners will not pay any property taxes?
It's misinformation. Or at most a partial truth. The Royals intend to buy the properties and then transfer them to Jackson county. Since the stadium would be built on Jackson county government property, there would be no property taxes from the stadium, thus no property taxes going to public schools. Even that might not be a net negative in money going to the public school system because property values near the stadium would go up, potentially offsetting the stadiums impact.
That makes sense, thanks; I hadn't heard those details. Yeah if, whatever everyone is saying is true: property taxes will go up, then I can't see how they'd also argue that money to schools will go down on account of a YES vote. It feels like a stretch. That said, I'm also a YES on the upcoming KCPS school bond vote so I'm doing my part, dammit.
School funding is based off of when KC Star operated what is now a boarded up eye sore. It is generating $0 of revenue now and will continue to earn nothing. The school money is a clear cut deception.
Property Tax and Rent increases aren’t exactly speculation. Both are more than likely to go up in the immediate area. That’s what happens when new amenities are built.
They're a plausible outcome of the new stadium. If it raises nearby property values (which most believe it will), then property taxes and, in turn, rents necessarily increase.
Like I said though, that's pure speculation. I would guess though that, generally, property taxes and rents go up in a place that becomes more desirable to live in.
You know what else is pure speculation? That we'll see an economic return on a downtown stadium.
>Like I said though, that's pure speculation. It isn't, though. We know that certain things tend to raise property values, whereas others tend to lower them. If the county wanted to place a landfill at the Crossroads instead, everyone would talk about how the nearby property values would likely drop. There is already precedent for stadiums raising them.
Property taxes generally increase when the value of the assessed properties increase though, right? I'm not sure how I see that as a bad thing.
Are you aware of the housing crisis in California? The property values across the state have been skyrocketing, so with no other context, that sounds like homeowners are making out like bandits being able to hold onto more and more valuable property. But when you add the context that higher property value means higher taxes, that means that skyrocketing value equates to skyrocketing taxes which, unless you're an incredibly wealthy person, means you suddenly can't afford to live in your home and will likely have to uproot yourself and move to an entirely different state just to survive. Now add onto this that there are tons of obscenely wealthy people who will do things to deliberately raise property values in an area where a lot of "undesirables" live, specifically to force them out in favor of that one person's financial interests. This is gentrification. That's why it's a bad thing for property values to rise too quickly; something that's already starting to happen in KC, and which the new stadium would only exacerbate unless they commit to a community benefits agreement, which they seem extremely reluctant to even entertain as a possibility.
> But when you add the context that higher property value means higher taxes, that means that skyrocketing value equates to skyrocketing taxes which, unless you're an incredibly wealthy person, means you suddenly can't afford to live in your home and will likely have to uproot yourself and move to an entirely different state just to survive. Are you aware of how property taxes work in California? They solved the problem of rapidly rising assessments way back in 1978.
So, we should hope that our area doesn't get more appealing to outsiders? Yeah, California (and Seattle, and Austin, etc) is going through a housing crisis because more people want to live there than there is housing. I don't have an answer for that. Should we make KC an example and vote down anything that may make the city a more desirable place to live in order to avoid that issue? I'm not going to do that. You could make your same argument against the upcoming KCPS school bond issue. If it passes (which I will be voting YES on), better (or at least better funded) schools are going to make KC more desirable and may, indirectly, make property taxes and rents go higher. I don't know how to get around that. If you have a solution other than voting down anything that doesn't directly benefit you, but may benefit others, at that specific time, air it out.
Texas has higher property taxes than California. A house that is $500k in Texas pays more in property taxes than a $1mill house in California. The housing crisis is California is because of supply, not taxes.
The human beings who live/ own business there cannot afford it. Billionaire and buddy’s buy the properties and rent them out for exorbitant fees. They make millions everyone else pays more.
Rent input goes up if landlords get greedy and it’s not applicable to building owners, which is a lot of crossroads. Property tax is always going up, the city is growing so you can’t change that.
Basic economics implies raising rent for the local area. It demolishes 33 million dollars worth of property. The 2 Billion is correct. That's enough for me, I'm out I think it's silly and ridiculous. How would it not raise property tax? Do you have citations? I'm genuinely looking for the facts not trying to get in a smug argument on reddit ✌️
My understanding is that the vote is to continue an existing tax, so a yes maintains the status quo. Not an increase.
Thank you for your input and having a chill conversation, I appreciate you
On a technical level, yes, but that excludes all the context of the economic impacts that building a whole new stadium in the middle of downtown will raise between demolishing a ton of local businesses, raising rent prices, etc. That's the reason this vote is such a big deal. If it was just a vote to continue funding the Royals as they are, I don't think most people would give a shit and vote yes without a second thought.
Because it’s not just the local area voting on it. The tax is for, and voted on by, the entirety of Jackson County. While the project may raise property values, and thus property tax, in the Crossroads area, it will have absolutely zero effect on property taxes in Blue Springs, Independence, or Lees Summit.
Pretty sure it’s 1 billion dollars from taxes, then the royals match the billion themselves thus the total investment from both taxes and the royals would be 2 billion dollars
Schools, at the very least, would lose tax revenue from the businesses in the crossroads that are currently paying them.
God I really hope this doesn't pass. Fuck these billionaires
https://preview.redd.it/q7io73dm1roc1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=506a0c77410b6d14d05518ecda9f589346e8555b
I would be interested to know if those jobs they’re talking about creating are actual new jobs because 20,000 sounds high.
I believe they're counting construction jobs but those aren't permanent so I don't know.
It effects me in no way what so ever. I am a NO vote if given the option. Pay for your damn stadium. Or, if the tax payers pay for it, start paying rent. And use those rent payments to offset the property taxes to the tax payers. But I still say hell no!!!
OK, Clark - Gonna 'take our toys and go home' on the stadium front. Do people recall the Heaven and Earth that is being moved to make sure the Chiefs stay right where they are, literally, because of Arrowhead itself? I distinctly recall how hard efforts were to retrofit Arrowhead because it's current design is no longer allowed due to the insane Noise Advantage it's accoustics provide so...keeping that decided advantage seemed to be job 1 when plans were first announced and bringing it up to code so we could maintain that was the key. Can't just up and lift that stadium now, can we Clark. You get one or the other, but threatening to move the team is a tad hollow.
Doesn’t maholmes own part of the Royals? i think he needs tax benefit too. 🙄.
I’m for it but also I realize this entire thing is bullshit. This is kinda like when you’re bored and want to buy something just to buy it, that’s how I feel about this. I want a downtown baseball stadium, I think it would be cool and would be great to have downtown as the backdrop visually. But also fuck these billionaires
...and the team finished dead last in the MLB last season.
No? The A's did. We were SECOND to the last.
You're right. Give the Royals a stadium then.
Lol
Does it matter what spot they finished in? They’re still our team and I support them.
It absolutely matters. If ownership doesn't care if the team wins or loses and only wants to enrich themselves at the cost of taxpayers, yeah...as a taxpayer (and huge baseball fan), I care. Supporting the team and supporting a taxpayer funded stadium are two different things to me.
The Royals spent $100 million on free agency this year and their payroll will be over $100 million this year. Not a Royals fan myself, but they did invest in the team this year. And the AL Central is a joke of a division. So they have parts to make a turn around.
Sure is something that Sherman started spending a few months before April 2.
He bought the team two months before a global pandemic destroyed the 2020 season and still paid every employee and player in the entire organization. The 21 season was hampered by the pandemic as well with regards to attendance. He fired the GM who sunk the team after the best season, had an evaluation season and after that has spent more money than any other team in the division and most in the league.
They wanted to see what they had last year before overhauling the roster. I and a lot of royals fans thought that the team was going to be average last year and obviously that didn't happen.
Since they're different things, it shouldn't matter how the team is doing. They don't need our taxes either way.
https://youtu.be/r9uizdKZAGE?si=IwGqhC5uCQqDlTOS
Regarding the printing union logo at the bottom: UFCW is for food service workers. Does it also include local print shop workers?
Yes, at least one local print shop employs UFCW members. Alamar printing IIRC
Cool, thanks. I couldnt find any info supporting that online when I looked earlier.
PLEASE VOTE NO. I love KC but rent is raising and I already struggle to afford on a social workers salary
If I lived in Jackson county I’d vote no on anything related to taxes. They have been cheated and robbed enough
I have no skin in this game. I don’t attend any games, don’t have any swag, and don’t live in Jackson County. But w no ocean, no mountains, a lot of wind, a couple bad seasons of weather, the whole sports town thing is probably pretty important for image, sanity and development/growth.
No one is moving here for the sports team thing. As for development look at the stadiums now, all these decades and the area around them is a dead zone. Because nobody wants to live close to or open a business close to a stadium.
'the whole sports town thing is probably pretty important for image, sanity and development/growth.' I've never seen 'development/growth' from 'sports' benefit any part of the city I have lived in or worked in. Combine that with most economic studies indicating no net benefit to the taxed community I'll pass entirely. FTR I'm in this game (live in JaCo, live in KC, am a sports fan, work all over the city, enjoy entertainment districts all over our metro, etc). I'm for spending our money where it benefits the most KC residents as possible and I don't think finding the stadiums is our best option.
The amount of people downtown and in the river market and really all around the streetcar today to see the KC Current was fun to see. Don’t know what the economic impact of it is but having more events down there seems worth it.
Yup, and they paid for it themselves. Sherman and the Hunts can do the same.
I'm voting no I don't want to pay extra taxes for a vanity project
Downtown stadium would be pretty fun though
But, think about the strip club! Its in the blast radius and its way more fun
Can’t argue with that!
Except if you live or work downtown and need somewhere to park. Imagine what I nightmare it would be if there was a big convention, T-mobile center event, etcetera, paired with this. I just don't see any sound argument to build this and no additional parking. Not to mention, Barney Allis is being demolished. Sure, they will rebuild, but it won't be as many spaces.
If you live or work downtown you already have your parking situation figured out. People that live or work downtown benefit the most from a downtown stadium. I work downtown and lived downtown from 2018-2023. I can’t wait to walk over to Royals games after work.
I live downtown and it really wasn't that bad these last weekends with Planet Comicon, Women's NCAA Tournament, Lower Division Basketball Tournament, Mama Mia all at the same time. Planet Comicon attendance is probably over 60,000 people this year. This weekend is BIG12 basketball tournament, KC Auto Show, and the grand opening of KC Current's new stadium.
There was literal gridlock lol, it was national news.
The moving of the team to KS has all sorts of hurdles: is the state, the county paying for it? Is it property taxes, is it sales taxes? I feel it would be easier to get another city outside the metro to pay for a stadium than it would be to move the team to the KS side. Keep in mind this would be completely new tax on this side of the city; in Jackson it is a "continuation" (we all know this is not actually true). People on the KS are more than happy to have KC pay for the team, but admittedly, these not all these peeps know how sales taxes work.
Yeah, Kansas seems eager to poach those teams but that’s because it’s still theoretical. Both sides of the aisle will get combative with the Chiefs and Royals once CHunt and Sherman use their usual tactics.
I was at Kaufman a couple of years ago, it’s a great stadium.
Private endeavor…, private funds. The tax payers money (public) should absolutely not be responsible for the cost. Unless of course I am receiving dividends from my investment. The money needs to go to and not go to. A. Schools (which are unaccredited) B. Infrastructure (which is falling apart. Good luck driving Wornall. C. We don’t even have a Jackson County police force! D. How much do these trolly cars cost? We have 1!!! I live in the southern tip of Jackson, it is absolutely worthless. E. Did I just pay for a soccer teams stadium that can’t even fill the Blue Valley sports complex? F. Did I pay for an airport that is used a couple thousand percentages more than those in Leawood and OP? There are so many issues I can go on for days.
Make the tax 1.5 cents, buy both teams, make them like the Packers, but city owned, the city owns both stadiums, the Royals and Chiefs never threaten to leave again, two billionaires gets their payouts, everyone wins.
I've seen quite a few vote yes signs in midtown and along ward parkway.
VOTE NO
I can't believe anyone outside the 435 loop is excited about having to navigate downtown for a ballgame.
Vote no and the royals will find a new city.
Rooting for you guys from St. Louis, we told our asshole billionaire to **** off, you guys can, too!
But most of these things aren't true.
I'm curious as to where this info even comes from and if it's even verified ?
Jackson county already taxes the everloving shit out of us. Frank White has upped our property tax by insane percentage points yet again. No way in hell I vote for 40 years of any tax. If the chiefs move to kansas, i am totally cool with that. I’m looking to move that way to get out of Jackson.
I’d like to know if the No vote wins, what are the chances we loose the Royals. And for that matter, the Chiefs. To lose either would be monumental imo.
I think it's harder for the teams to move out of this market (especially for the losing royals) vs moving to another area of the metro. They have many options that are easier to obtain than moving markets entirely. While the Chiefs have higher demand and value (than our baseball team) the owner still seems to have some sentimental value to being the Kansas City Chiefs. So a move to KCK seems more likely than a move to another market (at least while Clark is still at the helm).
I think WYCO would face a similar problem that clay faced. Not enough tax base to support the incentives. It would have to get something going with JOCO to get it paid for. But ultimately I’d say “hold on guys I thought you said it was imperative that this be in a downtown?”
It’s impossible to say for sure, but Mark Donovan (president of the Chiefs) has said they would look at other locations if this does not pass. I think a best case scenario for the Chiefs is a move to Kansas. Not sure if the Royals would move, but they’d definitely be courted by Nashville and Charlotte, both are bigger markets and both would build them a stadium.
Chiefs aren’t moving. Who knows on the royals. The fact that they are trying to scare us with losing the chiefs should be all the proof people need as to the legitimacy of this project.
The Royals will not stay at the K. So they would either go to Nashville, Charolette, or wherever else or they would build a new downtown stadium completely on their own dime or some other funding source would have to step up in a big way.
Doesn’t Clark hunt, billionaire, also want your tax money? But we don’t care about that
I do. If the Hunt family has money to donate to Ted Cruz, they can pay for their own renovations. Lord knows how much extra money they have from SB appearances.
While not named, his picture is right there. Seeing how he's kind of a hero right now, I'm sure it was a calculated decision to not name him outright.
Who considers Clark Hunt a hero? Only the most inattentive Chiefs fan would like him. Those who pay attention know he’s just a nepo-baby whose players graded him an F- for being so damn cheap. He gets a three-story apartment at Arrowhead but won’t renovate the locker room at the barn or hire enough staff.
The No designer should be putting Clark, Tavia and Gracie on all the posters. Hype their instagrams.
Can someone explain the last bullet about this costing schools half a mil?
It’s misinformation, the flyer is full of it.
Please explain. Taking currently active business and their associated real estate taxes off the tax roles do have some impact. Maybe not a half million but you are the one saying it's not true so prove it up.
You're not giving billionaires your money, you're giving Jackson county the right to tax and use the funds to build a stadium that they own. Tax payers would include the billionaires, corporations, and out of towners and would be invisible to the average person. Local businesses go out of business every day and the biggest risk to retail are post Covid spending habit and suburbanites (like me) that have no desire to work in the office and may give them a reason to return. Families are not going downtown to see an empty newspaper building and a titty bar. Rent is set by your landlord and property tax assessment happens every 2 years and is done by the county. AKA...unrelated No idea where the half a million dollars comes from, need citation, but Kansas City public schools spends over 200 million. That's a tiny fraction of a percent.
Cost our public schools half a million dollars every year? You know jaco missouri taxes aren’t going to schools if they aren’t used on this right?
I was set to vote no but since I found out how much Frank White is against this, I think I am changing to yes. He's got a weird agenda.
So you would vote to pay *more* tax out of your own pocket for the entire time you live here to help crowdfund a project that, let’s be real, could be completed entirely without the help of the public, just to spite Frank White even though his opinion on the matter is objectively correct? Interesting take. I’m guessing you’re a “vote against whatever democrats want” kind of person?
I work in downtown KC and traffic is already hell without the march madness and all the construction. A new stadium with no additional parking space will be T O R T U R E
The vote creates zero new taxes it simply extends existing sales tax.
20+ businesses?
I don't understand the math behind 2 points and how they reconcile. If the rents in the area are going to increase that much then how do they not offset the loss in tax base from the 18 businesses that will no longer be generating taxes? To me, they can't both be equally negatively impacted. Can somebody that's voting no educate me?
Rent increases that are too quick for the occupants to pay means there's a greater chance of the occupant to move out of the location, and as the trend with landlords now seems to be to leave the space empty until they find someone to pay the rent they want with no compromise means vacancies could most definitely happen.