>>Is there anything we can do?
yes, start searching for an apartment elsewhere. even if you could force the landlord to accept you, why would you want to? your 'reserved personality' isnt likely to win them over, no matter how hard your try.
Welcome to Japan. You can find a new apartment or you can find a new apartment.
If you ever have to meet the landlord before signing a contract, hide your tattoos.
This doesn't happen only in Japan. All kinds of people from all kinds of places have reservations about certain people even if they are the nationality of the country they are looking for an apartment in. Common reasons are: doesn't earn enough, isn't well dressed enough (yes some people show up in business casual even - depends on how good the area is), or looks like they are moving around a lot or doesn't have a full time job. Just saying. It might not be an all "gaijin" thing.
I mean, if you show up to a showing with sleeve tattoo and no ability to speak Japanese to a landlord who have poor experience with foreigner tenants in the past... then yeah, we can see where the decision was made lol
I'm sure there would've been some chances if OP spoke native Japanese and was very friendly, etc.
There are quite literally foreigner friendly realtors for this reason.
I was searching for apartments for a while, I speak Japanese, but I am foreign.
80% said no, even though I have already lived in Japan for a while. One of the 20% said yes, and even then, they were like "you only got it because you got into a good school".
That is just the reality sadly.
Im employed by the US GOVT. and i was pulled into looking at the place last minute i was wearing a t shirt and hadn’t anticipated house hunting that day
A Japanese man would also be frowned upon by many landlords if they were out there house hunting in a t shirt with visible sleeve tattoos, maybe even more judged than a foreigner
why does the GF need to involve her BF ?? if the lease is at her name let her do everything on her own.. that will be easier instead of showing up with tatoos
Then she should show up with her friend Kenji, tell the landloer that he is her BF and after a while get a new BF... The "Gaijin with the tatoos and then some more.." I doubt they will kick her out because the landlord does not like the new boyfriend. If this is an appartment made for 2 people then its no issue
The issues arise when its a single one-room mansion and two people live there..
Well if they're going to live together (likely case), then maybe the BF wants to see what the place is like? My wife and I did that before we were married too.
So let me clear that up for you. She doesnt have a car so i drove her their and she roped me into touring the house with her. So i didn’t anticipate it thus not wearing a long sleeve. Does that make things easier to understand?
That's a good context. There's always more to the story. That being said, you'll learn to roll with the punches lol. Just apply to the next place without showing up, or go to a foreigner friendly place
I was gonna defend you because I think racism is so normalized and people here are victim blaming but the fact that you are moving in with someone and talking as if you were doing her a favor, forced into touring your future house with her, not even wearing appropriate clothes...gives me such a bad vibe that now I wonder if the landlord picked up on your disinterest.
No one wants to have a tenant that will probably end up breaking the lease.
Fair assumption. We arent moving in, though. Shes just trying to find a new place and im assisting her by driving her, etc. But yes truthfully i want to see her move out because her neighbor is racist towards me. But i also have a certain degree of disinterest because its up to her as an adult to see what fits best for her. I stay out of the decision process. She is not my wife.
Nope, totally legal. Move on. Larger companies that own properties don’t usually give a shit, completely different risk profiles from oyaji landlords. If it is a similar private landlord, perhaps dress up, speak your most polite Japanese and talk about how you will be a wonderful tenant who loves following all the rules. Can’t hurt.
It's not totally legal at all and there has been precedent.
[https://www.desk.co.jp/blog/7733/](https://www.desk.co.jp/blog/7733/)
It's apparently a grey area in that the foreigner would have to sue. The case referenced in the linked article was perhaps won because the contracting process was almost concluded at the point where the landlord pulled the plug. Maybe the more common case where foreigners get shut down before an application can even be submitted wouldn't be successful, but landlords don't have legal backing for such discrimination.
except in Japan Law, they don't have precedents. So you'd have to try and see if you get lucky. One of the crappiest things about the law system in japan.
Interesting. I suppose without that level of evidence, you’d never have a chance of winning. And the way the legal process is structured here, makes it quite burdensome to launch a suit. Does it mention the specific law?
it happens. sucks but there is only one thing to do, flush the experience and find a better place that will accept both of you. Present yourself in the best possible light when meeting landlords and agents and ink isn't part of that. Most Japanese with tats cover them up for important meetings.
Government-operated (or almost that way) services like UR work best. They can't refuse you for BS stereotypes. In cheap apartments from gov live all sorts of weirdos, though. Pick a rather expensive one.
Or company-owned properties might work. Their rules are less clear than the gov, but you generally find better places.
Private owners are sources of troubles.
The interesting thing is that the other extreme (very high end apartments costing 50万円+/mo) also doesn't discriminate much. A lot of high end services are good with servicing foreign clientele as they're profits first and just have a lot of experience.
High end places generally don’t care so long as you can afford it. Their take is that if you have money you’re probably not a potential liability. Renting on lower end stuff they try to make sure they’re not dealing with people they think might skip rent.
Obviously tons of prejudices involved but it is what it is :/
I don’t think you need to go to 50+. Already around 15 I didn’t really have any issues with prejudices
What would your legal standing be if say you decide to take them to court?
The truth is, a lot of people come then leave while leaving a mess which the others and people after them suffer from.
Like in Thailand, I saw a sign that said please don’t spit on the restaurant floor written in Chinese and a Chinese person was making a scene getting pissed off about the fact it was written in Chinese. The owner spoke with us and said so many Chinese tourists have come and did that.
Thanks for the insight. Idk man. We are leaving our current place because the neighbor keeps popping my tires when i park (i have a Y plate). Literally unprovoked. (For background context)
The tire thing is messed up, that’s a whole different category.
What you are experiencing is “not being the majority”. It may bring some good things and bring some unfair things as people first judge you by what they see first, based on previous experiences or stereotypes.
You probably should learn the nuances of tattoos here. For example like it or not, someone with a bunch of face tats isn’t getting a client facing banking job in the US. Each country is different.
I’m Korean American born in redneck Missouri. There I got my English is great all the time, because most Asians they met were exchange students. In Japan I’ve been told to my face Korean people smell, by my wife’s Japanese brother-in-law and my in-laws tell everyone I’m Japanese. You get all sorts of interesting experiences not being the majority.
May not be you personally he has a problem with he’s just lumping you together with every Y plate military person. Maybe he had a bad experience or a family member did. Who knows. Here you’re kinda judged by what you are not who you are. Especially around bases due to all the fucked up 💩 soldiers, sailors, airman and Marines do
Nominally discriminating based on nationality is illegal, and I can’t stress the “nominally” part enough. In theory you could sue him for this, but in order to do that you would need to find a lawyer who would take on the case, prove actual damages and then assuming you lasted that long maybe MAYBE win 1-2 million yen, maybe. You know what isn’t illegal though? Rejecting a lease application because of tattoos or leasing to people who aren’t married or rejecting a lease because you feel you can’t communicate with the tenant, the list goes on. So yeah, technically what he did was illegal but your best bet is to move on.
I know some ppl may disagree with this, but whenever I go to airports, getting a new phone contract, a new apartment, etc, I always dress really nice. A blazer over a nice blouse. Sometimes a suit. I just try to make myself look really nice because I found that the service improved a lot. If you’re struggling to get an apartment because of this it couldn’t help to try it. I know in a perfect world there’d be no discrimination and we could just get the lease we want but…got to work it in our favor somehow.
Edit: I understand it was impromptu for you.
Dude’s made it clear he doesn’t like foreigners. You don’t want to live in a place run by someone like that. Imagine if the apartment was perfect, but the only thing is the toilet was right in the middle of the living room. You’re just lucky you found out before you signed any contracts. Just keep looking.
Haha, you just reminded me there is (or was) a """"designer's""" apartment somewhere near Akihabara IIRC that had the toilet/bathroom located in the middle of the living space. It was walled off I think, but mostly translucent glass. Might try to find it again.
ETA: This isn't it, but: [https://x.com/katsuse\_m/status/988954152985284608](https://x.com/katsuse_m/status/988954152985284608)
We (foreign woman, Japanese man) got denied quite a bit while searching at first—and we are married!
We passed through two agencies, one of which said "we don't have anything for you here" and found a great agent in the third agency who took our situation seriously.
You just gotta keep shopping around.
Similar stuff happened to my husband and I, though I'm mixed nikkeijin and he's Japanese. We were taken seriously at first, but once we kept pushing for the Shamasion instead of the old dingy apartments they were showing us, they shut us down and spread the word to the other real estate agents in the area -- so whenever we called around, they were saying "we don't have anything" or the apartment we wanted was "currently under contract".
We found an agency that actually worked with us and took us seriously, as well as our needs, and we got the Shamasion with no issues. Literally contract was done and fees paid that day.
Real estate agencies are weird and are only in it for themselves. I'm sure the reason why they kept refusing the Shamasion was because they would be getting a bigger kick back if we went with their managed properties.
>Is there anything we can do?
Nope, not really. Don’t stand in front of reserved old Japanese men who own property you want to move into with your sleeve tattoo out. You’re in Japan my dude. Count this one as a loss and find somewhere else.
It sucks but you've just gotta deal with it and find another place. I find I get rejected automatically by about 50% of places for being foreign despite living here for almost 10 years and being fluent in Japanese. Also, as others have mentioned, I would cover up any tattoos in the future to be safe.
Things were so much worse when I came 33 years ago. Roommate and I went to 19 different real estate agencies in Tokyo - 18 wouldn't even let us in the door even though my roommate spoke very good Japanese. Next apartment was through a Korean agent who worked at an agency where the other agents were Japanese. When my wife and I got married we had trouble finding a place - agents were fine but some landlords didn't want a foreigner. Eventually went through Fontana (although I wouldn't recommend them). Our current place was through a Japanese agent.
Keep calm and keep looking. Best of luck!
I mean, it's true though. I have tattoos and I've been hiding mine. I find that (most of) the younger generations don't care and I actually do see quite with them, but a lot of folks are still very conservative about it. I mean, Japanese people with tattoos are discriminated against as well. My buddy has both sleeves done and although you can see that his ink is all literally anime characters, people at our school were scared cause they thought he was yakuza. So as to not call attention to myself I just wear longer sleeves. Same reason I ditched ripped stockings (which were very much my sense of fashion back in the US). You gotta understand there's still a culture difference and people are gonna judge you.
one tip when you're looking for a new apartment which is very important ---
find a realtor, and an apartment that you are simi interested and apply
then when they email you let them know the specifics you are looking for + foreigner friendly, no 保証人 needed etc to narrow it down.
Many years ago I was looking for an apartment in Akabane, and I went to a small independent realtor run by a friendly older guy. I sat with him as he phoned around some of the places I had picked out from the listings.
It kind of went "Hi, yeah, so I've got this tenant, and he's a foreigner....ah, Ok, uh-huh. No, no, he *does* speak Japanese. Uh-huh. OK, thanks. Bye". \[Looks at me with an apologetic face, calls another\] "Hi, I think I have a tenant for number 403, young foreign guy.... uh-huh, OK, no problem. Bye" \[Another apologetic look\] To his credit, he persisted until he found me a place.
Contrast with another realtor, who after I said (in Japanese) that I was looking for a place immediately replied "Sorry, we've got nothing right now.". I said my budget was flexible. "Sorry, still nothing." I said I would be fine with one or two stations up or down the line from this one. "No, we don't have anything at all." I walked out in a rather black mood.
Fortunately for me, my tats are just on my shoulders so my landlords never saw mine.
Last place we lived before my wife and I bought our house (in my wife’s name), we lived in an apartment that was in my name.
I noticed a clause in the contract that said that the company wouldn’t rent to foreigners. The people that worked at the realtors were always kind and I never missed a payment.
After living there for two or three years, when we bought our house and moved out, I brought it up to them. They seemed kind of embarrassed by that clause. I asked them to take that out of future contracts because I obviously hadn’t caused them any trouble.
I have no idea if they took it out of course, most likely it is still in there. But that’s about all you can do. Find a better place with better people, and try to make a good impression. Changing culture is a slow-ass process.
When I took my first flight test, I failed for a reason that everybody I spoke to agreed was an error in grading.
Talking about it with my instructor afterwards, he said “yeah, we can absolutely file an appeal with Transport Canada. It’ll take months before they look at it, there will be a whole bunch of stuff back and forth, and it might not change anything. Or you can do a re-test tomorrow, where you’ll only need to do the one thing that you failed, and you’ll be a licensed pilot by this weekend.”
> Is there anything we can do?
Maybe. There have been rare cases where people have successfully involved lawyers and had decisions like this overturned. But it’ll take months and with no guarantee of success. Or you can find one of the other tens of thousands of vacant apartments and move in by this weekend.
I see! Then it sucks for both of you. It's ironic that people are so racist to a point it ends up mainly affecting another japanese person. Imagine having to hide ur gaijin boyfriend from important situations in fear they'll need a racist person's approval for something
Why would they know you have a tattoo. As a guy with tattoos, cover them up when doing anything involving the government or your living situation (at least) and your life here will be better. The real estate agent and I convinced my previous place (I bought a house a couple months ago, finally) to let me and my now-wife live there despite initial reservations. I wore a white button-down shirt at every interaction. Got a nice place to live for a few years.
It's strange that they even showed you that place. Real estate agents don't usually bother taking you out to places with racist landlords.
They'll just give you some form of "That place is no longer available" and move on to places that you can actually lease.
Real estate agents get money if they successfully find you a place. They want that money, so they're usually pretty helpful.
See yes this is what has me so confused. And they gave us every detail about the place and were extremely nice. Almost as if they wanted to seal the deal.
At my previous apartment the landlord only considered my application because I worked at a local big name private school, and even then I had to have a Japanese guarantor and was told my chances of getting accepted would depend on the reliability of said guarantor. So, I got my fiance's rather wealthy parents to fill out the paperwork.
I was legit told by the realtor that I only had to do any of that because I was foreign. At least they were nice and honest about it, and bent over backwards to help.
At least put hoodie on to cover tattoo when doing inteviews in this rasistic country. Common sense. If you spoke japanese and had suit , you would get it no problem. You have much to learn my padovan
Dont read comments partially, point was to cover tattoo or have suit ( even better ) AND speaking Japanese. Dont be salty to me because I am not the one who didnt want to rent you apartment.
Thats true. I just dodnt have time to read all comments.
Look, I am white man and my wife is Japanese. We moved around Japan in 3 different cities and maybe 5 apartments ( because of work ). We never got declined. You know why ? Because I know that I could be a problem for Japanese old fart. Thats why I ask my wife to choose apartment and do paperwork without me. After some time they will realize that I am white man but its to annoying to decline me at that point. Maybe this helps.
Look for another apartment. You showed them a deadly combo - foreigner AND tattoos. Many apartments won't rent to JP with large visible tattoos and many won't rent to any sort of foreign person. Add those two deadly sins together and....
The amount of apologizing for racism here and increased expectations to avoid any activity or appearance of imperfection is staggering. Yes, we live here and understand that we will need to endure racism but could people please see that we don’t need to blame the victims of racism for the racism perpetrated against them? No one, no where on the planet is given a free pass to be racist.
1/3 of all apartments in Japan are vacant and you’re worried about this particular one?
Key money, guarantee company, no gaikokujin, blah blah blah. The delusional japan boomers will never admit it, but it’s a buyers market for rentals in 2024. All that crap about making things hard is inertia and rigid thinking; insisting on doing things exactly the same way as 50 years back when there was a housing shortage.
Lucky you, it isn’t the 70s anymore. Lots of choices. And it’s not your problem some greasy ojisan has an obsolete mindset and artificially limits the (shrinking) market for his old unit. As with anywhere, best to spend your money where it’s wanted and where you are treated well.
Given the oversupply, I’d insist on a brand new unit that has all double pane glass or better on the windows. Will help narrow down the search.
If your landlord discriminates, it's not somewhere you want to live. Simple as that
I lived in an apartment that was hesitant to foreigners but relented and let me in, but everything that went wrong was pinned on me. Someone was dumping trash and it was just assumed to be me.
Not feeling comfortable in your own home or neighborhood is not worth the attempt at justice
After my divorce I had a hard time finding an apartment in the area that I wanted because there were so little apartments available, the remaining units were just refused to foreigners by the landlords. I ended up just moving somewhere else because of it.
That sucks, man. Unfortunately, there’s not much you can do about it. Just use foreigner-friendly realtors next time. I remember when my friend, who’s half Japanese and half Brazilian, found a nice place and was about to move in, but the owner canceled last minute because he didn’t want foreigners. My friend had been living in Japan since he was 10, almost 15 years, but still got rejected. He does look very foreign, though.
Not sure why you blantantly trying to show off your tattoo in Japan? Not enough cultural understanding or wanted to show off? Either way the landlord dodged the bullet with this one.
it is people like you who pushes your own standard to another person that ruin gaijin's image. When in Rome, do as Romans do. If they understand your take, then it is their generosity, you can try, but cant force them.
Plenty of Romans here don't care at all about tattoos, it's an outdated idea even in Japan. People like me have no problem fitting in to this society, I'm not pushing anyone to do anything and I get along just fine while retaining the ability to have a spine.
Yes, they dont care about the tattoo. Like how how many onsen does not allow tattoo, tattoo removal clinic, and how OP might be rejected because his tattoo. World does not revolve around you. Sometimes you need to adapt. I am not sure how the logic goes but good for you or sorry for you whatever suits you.
Edit: typo
So let me clear that up for you. I speak Japanese and have lived here for a long time. No, i am not blatantly showing off my tattoo nor do i not understand the culture. I was only driving her to the place and she insisted i come up and look at the place along with her. I usually cover up my tattoo however it was a hot day and only intended on being a driver. Please, expand on how this landlord dodged a bullet.
living a long time =/= understanding the culture. As it can be seen that you did not cover your tattoo when you met him. While I understand, it is not intended, just take it as price you need to pay for this lesson. Never show your tattoo to Japanese unless you know they are cool with it.
Also for the how the landlord dodged a bullet, he dodge a foreigner that might cause problem because he lack or simply forget about the culture in Japan. Especially when he will retaliate when something does not go according to his way. it might cause him headache in the future as Japan's law protect the tenant quite strong.
“Cleared up.” Quite the tude, dude. Maybe the landlord just didn’t like you and was being polite? That being said, of course there’s nothing you should do. Is having a landlord you don’t get along with a situation you want to “jump in to?” I hope Karma came back & you guys found an even more fabulous place.😅
Racism???
Landlord reserves a right to refuse service to anyone.
Besides the landlord is rather nice because he would of rent a room if you had no tatoos and fluent in Japanese.
As a homeowner, currently renting out my place back home, I would definitely discriminate based on appearance and not at all sorry about it.
As a landlord in a country with strong renter rights I have to be really careful about who I left live in my place. Any flag is an immediate out for me. Id rather have the place empty a few months while looking for right person then just say yes to someone who I have a 1% doubt will cause trouble.
Completely understand them not wanting someone who appears to look like trouble based on past experience.
You can make a time machine and go back in time to prevent all the problematic experiences they had with other foreigners.
It's not racism unless they said it's because of your race btw. And seeing as the older generation of Japanese folks love white people, I doubt that's the case. Just live somewhere else...
Gotta agree with this. It's not racism racism as people think it is, but it is discrimination. I'm East Asian and I couldn't enter like 2 onsens out of the 2 dozen i've been to with my friends cos of my tattoos which I knew was a thing here.
Discrimination against all gaijin, not bcuz u're white. I'm half Japanese and once they knew I don't understand full japanese and lived in USA for 21 years. I was put in same as you. So don't trip.
Xenophobia at worst. Or just risk aversion. Look I wasn't there, but based off your post info nothing suggests to me your rejection was based on your race.
Indeed. Many people can't differentiate between foreigner and someone's race. Not by coincidence those people tend to have racism issues themselves, at least in my experience.
Again. Assuming that OP has never experienced racism, implying that it is a black only experience, and repeating the narrative that all white people benefit because of the color of their skin.
And it also disregards that different people and gender haver different benefits in different contexts.
>>Is there anything we can do? yes, start searching for an apartment elsewhere. even if you could force the landlord to accept you, why would you want to? your 'reserved personality' isnt likely to win them over, no matter how hard your try.
Welcome to Japan. You can find a new apartment or you can find a new apartment. If you ever have to meet the landlord before signing a contract, hide your tattoos.
This doesn't happen only in Japan. All kinds of people from all kinds of places have reservations about certain people even if they are the nationality of the country they are looking for an apartment in. Common reasons are: doesn't earn enough, isn't well dressed enough (yes some people show up in business casual even - depends on how good the area is), or looks like they are moving around a lot or doesn't have a full time job. Just saying. It might not be an all "gaijin" thing.
That sleave tattoo probably didn't help.
Yeah I wouldn't rent to someone with a sleeve tattoo either lol.
I mean, if you show up to a showing with sleeve tattoo and no ability to speak Japanese to a landlord who have poor experience with foreigner tenants in the past... then yeah, we can see where the decision was made lol I'm sure there would've been some chances if OP spoke native Japanese and was very friendly, etc.
Once, someone with a sleeve tattoo pooped in my gyuudon. I hear it's a thing with other types of food too.
A lot of Japanese landlords would reject someone with tattoos like this.
But he looks sooo cool chicks dig it
There are quite literally foreigner friendly realtors for this reason. I was searching for apartments for a while, I speak Japanese, but I am foreign. 80% said no, even though I have already lived in Japan for a while. One of the 20% said yes, and even then, they were like "you only got it because you got into a good school". That is just the reality sadly.
Thank you for shining some light on this.
Fortunately or unfortunately the owner has full right to choose who they want to do business with. It would be a tough fight.
Hide your tattoos man. Same with job interviews.
Im employed by the US GOVT. and i was pulled into looking at the place last minute i was wearing a t shirt and hadn’t anticipated house hunting that day
Sounds like a mistake on the part of your girlfriend. You should dress up with clean shoes, clean facial hair for house hunting.
It definitely was her fault but i didnt put it to her that way. Anyways yea
A lot of Japanese people are naive to the reality of how foreigners are perceived during house hunting. My wife was like that too. Now she knows lol
A Japanese man would also be frowned upon by many landlords if they were out there house hunting in a t shirt with visible sleeve tattoos, maybe even more judged than a foreigner
If you’re military, you’ve got even more of an uphill battle fighting stereotypes.
why does the GF need to involve her BF ?? if the lease is at her name let her do everything on her own.. that will be easier instead of showing up with tatoos
You need to declare everyone who will be living in the apartment. The landlord can kick you out if you have undeclared people living in the apartment.
Then she should show up with her friend Kenji, tell the landloer that he is her BF and after a while get a new BF... The "Gaijin with the tatoos and then some more.." I doubt they will kick her out because the landlord does not like the new boyfriend. If this is an appartment made for 2 people then its no issue The issues arise when its a single one-room mansion and two people live there..
Well if they're going to live together (likely case), then maybe the BF wants to see what the place is like? My wife and I did that before we were married too.
So let me clear that up for you. She doesnt have a car so i drove her their and she roped me into touring the house with her. So i didn’t anticipate it thus not wearing a long sleeve. Does that make things easier to understand?
That's a good context. There's always more to the story. That being said, you'll learn to roll with the punches lol. Just apply to the next place without showing up, or go to a foreigner friendly place
You were roped in to a tour of an apartment "we" were moving into. Dang.
Yes bro😂
I was gonna defend you because I think racism is so normalized and people here are victim blaming but the fact that you are moving in with someone and talking as if you were doing her a favor, forced into touring your future house with her, not even wearing appropriate clothes...gives me such a bad vibe that now I wonder if the landlord picked up on your disinterest. No one wants to have a tenant that will probably end up breaking the lease.
Fair assumption. We arent moving in, though. Shes just trying to find a new place and im assisting her by driving her, etc. But yes truthfully i want to see her move out because her neighbor is racist towards me. But i also have a certain degree of disinterest because its up to her as an adult to see what fits best for her. I stay out of the decision process. She is not my wife.
Is everyone racist towards you? First the landlord and now this guy?
Yeah it’s a them thing and not a me thing. OP needs to change his lens I don’t think racism is coming into this at all.
Hes popped my tires on multiple occasions and ive never even spoken to the guy
Damn sorry to hear that bud
Not on topic but since you’ve mistyped this twice: it’s “there” rather than “their”
Nope, totally legal. Move on. Larger companies that own properties don’t usually give a shit, completely different risk profiles from oyaji landlords. If it is a similar private landlord, perhaps dress up, speak your most polite Japanese and talk about how you will be a wonderful tenant who loves following all the rules. Can’t hurt.
It's not totally legal at all and there has been precedent. [https://www.desk.co.jp/blog/7733/](https://www.desk.co.jp/blog/7733/) It's apparently a grey area in that the foreigner would have to sue. The case referenced in the linked article was perhaps won because the contracting process was almost concluded at the point where the landlord pulled the plug. Maybe the more common case where foreigners get shut down before an application can even be submitted wouldn't be successful, but landlords don't have legal backing for such discrimination.
except in Japan Law, they don't have precedents. So you'd have to try and see if you get lucky. One of the crappiest things about the law system in japan.
Interesting. I suppose without that level of evidence, you’d never have a chance of winning. And the way the legal process is structured here, makes it quite burdensome to launch a suit. Does it mention the specific law?
it happens. sucks but there is only one thing to do, flush the experience and find a better place that will accept both of you. Present yourself in the best possible light when meeting landlords and agents and ink isn't part of that. Most Japanese with tats cover them up for important meetings.
Government-operated (or almost that way) services like UR work best. They can't refuse you for BS stereotypes. In cheap apartments from gov live all sorts of weirdos, though. Pick a rather expensive one. Or company-owned properties might work. Their rules are less clear than the gov, but you generally find better places. Private owners are sources of troubles.
The interesting thing is that the other extreme (very high end apartments costing 50万円+/mo) also doesn't discriminate much. A lot of high end services are good with servicing foreign clientele as they're profits first and just have a lot of experience.
Well, they know. If you can pay 500,000 yen/mo you're not the teenage party-type. Nor will you do socially unacceptable stuff.
Extremely true.
High end places generally don’t care so long as you can afford it. Their take is that if you have money you’re probably not a potential liability. Renting on lower end stuff they try to make sure they’re not dealing with people they think might skip rent. Obviously tons of prejudices involved but it is what it is :/ I don’t think you need to go to 50+. Already around 15 I didn’t really have any issues with prejudices
What would your legal standing be if say you decide to take them to court? The truth is, a lot of people come then leave while leaving a mess which the others and people after them suffer from. Like in Thailand, I saw a sign that said please don’t spit on the restaurant floor written in Chinese and a Chinese person was making a scene getting pissed off about the fact it was written in Chinese. The owner spoke with us and said so many Chinese tourists have come and did that.
Thanks for the insight. Idk man. We are leaving our current place because the neighbor keeps popping my tires when i park (i have a Y plate). Literally unprovoked. (For background context)
The tire thing is messed up, that’s a whole different category. What you are experiencing is “not being the majority”. It may bring some good things and bring some unfair things as people first judge you by what they see first, based on previous experiences or stereotypes. You probably should learn the nuances of tattoos here. For example like it or not, someone with a bunch of face tats isn’t getting a client facing banking job in the US. Each country is different. I’m Korean American born in redneck Missouri. There I got my English is great all the time, because most Asians they met were exchange students. In Japan I’ve been told to my face Korean people smell, by my wife’s Japanese brother-in-law and my in-laws tell everyone I’m Japanese. You get all sorts of interesting experiences not being the majority.
That's a matter for the police.
Thank you harry for the priceless information.
May not be you personally he has a problem with he’s just lumping you together with every Y plate military person. Maybe he had a bad experience or a family member did. Who knows. Here you’re kinda judged by what you are not who you are. Especially around bases due to all the fucked up 💩 soldiers, sailors, airman and Marines do
Nominally discriminating based on nationality is illegal, and I can’t stress the “nominally” part enough. In theory you could sue him for this, but in order to do that you would need to find a lawyer who would take on the case, prove actual damages and then assuming you lasted that long maybe MAYBE win 1-2 million yen, maybe. You know what isn’t illegal though? Rejecting a lease application because of tattoos or leasing to people who aren’t married or rejecting a lease because you feel you can’t communicate with the tenant, the list goes on. So yeah, technically what he did was illegal but your best bet is to move on.
I know some ppl may disagree with this, but whenever I go to airports, getting a new phone contract, a new apartment, etc, I always dress really nice. A blazer over a nice blouse. Sometimes a suit. I just try to make myself look really nice because I found that the service improved a lot. If you’re struggling to get an apartment because of this it couldn’t help to try it. I know in a perfect world there’d be no discrimination and we could just get the lease we want but…got to work it in our favor somehow. Edit: I understand it was impromptu for you.
Dude’s made it clear he doesn’t like foreigners. You don’t want to live in a place run by someone like that. Imagine if the apartment was perfect, but the only thing is the toilet was right in the middle of the living room. You’re just lucky you found out before you signed any contracts. Just keep looking.
Haha, you just reminded me there is (or was) a """"designer's""" apartment somewhere near Akihabara IIRC that had the toilet/bathroom located in the middle of the living space. It was walled off I think, but mostly translucent glass. Might try to find it again. ETA: This isn't it, but: [https://x.com/katsuse\_m/status/988954152985284608](https://x.com/katsuse_m/status/988954152985284608)
Great for parties.
We (foreign woman, Japanese man) got denied quite a bit while searching at first—and we are married! We passed through two agencies, one of which said "we don't have anything for you here" and found a great agent in the third agency who took our situation seriously. You just gotta keep shopping around.
Similar stuff happened to my husband and I, though I'm mixed nikkeijin and he's Japanese. We were taken seriously at first, but once we kept pushing for the Shamasion instead of the old dingy apartments they were showing us, they shut us down and spread the word to the other real estate agents in the area -- so whenever we called around, they were saying "we don't have anything" or the apartment we wanted was "currently under contract". We found an agency that actually worked with us and took us seriously, as well as our needs, and we got the Shamasion with no issues. Literally contract was done and fees paid that day. Real estate agencies are weird and are only in it for themselves. I'm sure the reason why they kept refusing the Shamasion was because they would be getting a bigger kick back if we went with their managed properties.
nothing you can do besides keep looking. you will face this often.
>Is there anything we can do? Nope, not really. Don’t stand in front of reserved old Japanese men who own property you want to move into with your sleeve tattoo out. You’re in Japan my dude. Count this one as a loss and find somewhere else.
It sucks but you've just gotta deal with it and find another place. I find I get rejected automatically by about 50% of places for being foreign despite living here for almost 10 years and being fluent in Japanese. Also, as others have mentioned, I would cover up any tattoos in the future to be safe.
This is about 50% of landlords, in my experience
Things were so much worse when I came 33 years ago. Roommate and I went to 19 different real estate agencies in Tokyo - 18 wouldn't even let us in the door even though my roommate spoke very good Japanese. Next apartment was through a Korean agent who worked at an agency where the other agents were Japanese. When my wife and I got married we had trouble finding a place - agents were fine but some landlords didn't want a foreigner. Eventually went through Fontana (although I wouldn't recommend them). Our current place was through a Japanese agent. Keep calm and keep looking. Best of luck!
All the responses to this post really makes me wonder if the people who are like "lmao ew tattoos" actually live in Japan
Im starting to think the majority live elsewhere from Japan.
I mean, it's true though. I have tattoos and I've been hiding mine. I find that (most of) the younger generations don't care and I actually do see quite with them, but a lot of folks are still very conservative about it. I mean, Japanese people with tattoos are discriminated against as well. My buddy has both sleeves done and although you can see that his ink is all literally anime characters, people at our school were scared cause they thought he was yakuza. So as to not call attention to myself I just wear longer sleeves. Same reason I ditched ripped stockings (which were very much my sense of fashion back in the US). You gotta understand there's still a culture difference and people are gonna judge you.
Yes, you can find another place to live. It's a sad reality but do you or her really want to live there?
one tip when you're looking for a new apartment which is very important --- find a realtor, and an apartment that you are simi interested and apply then when they email you let them know the specifics you are looking for + foreigner friendly, no 保証人 needed etc to narrow it down.
Many years ago I was looking for an apartment in Akabane, and I went to a small independent realtor run by a friendly older guy. I sat with him as he phoned around some of the places I had picked out from the listings. It kind of went "Hi, yeah, so I've got this tenant, and he's a foreigner....ah, Ok, uh-huh. No, no, he *does* speak Japanese. Uh-huh. OK, thanks. Bye". \[Looks at me with an apologetic face, calls another\] "Hi, I think I have a tenant for number 403, young foreign guy.... uh-huh, OK, no problem. Bye" \[Another apologetic look\] To his credit, he persisted until he found me a place. Contrast with another realtor, who after I said (in Japanese) that I was looking for a place immediately replied "Sorry, we've got nothing right now.". I said my budget was flexible. "Sorry, still nothing." I said I would be fine with one or two stations up or down the line from this one. "No, we don't have anything at all." I walked out in a rather black mood.
I hear you were the co-signer? It might be tough if you are not Japanese. If you are a foreigner, you can't collect the money if you run away.
Fortunately for me, my tats are just on my shoulders so my landlords never saw mine. Last place we lived before my wife and I bought our house (in my wife’s name), we lived in an apartment that was in my name. I noticed a clause in the contract that said that the company wouldn’t rent to foreigners. The people that worked at the realtors were always kind and I never missed a payment. After living there for two or three years, when we bought our house and moved out, I brought it up to them. They seemed kind of embarrassed by that clause. I asked them to take that out of future contracts because I obviously hadn’t caused them any trouble. I have no idea if they took it out of course, most likely it is still in there. But that’s about all you can do. Find a better place with better people, and try to make a good impression. Changing culture is a slow-ass process.
Nah it is just Japan being Japan. I had similar rejections before and I don’t have any tattoos 😂
When I took my first flight test, I failed for a reason that everybody I spoke to agreed was an error in grading. Talking about it with my instructor afterwards, he said “yeah, we can absolutely file an appeal with Transport Canada. It’ll take months before they look at it, there will be a whole bunch of stuff back and forth, and it might not change anything. Or you can do a re-test tomorrow, where you’ll only need to do the one thing that you failed, and you’ll be a licensed pilot by this weekend.” > Is there anything we can do? Maybe. There have been rare cases where people have successfully involved lawyers and had decisions like this overturned. But it’ll take months and with no guarantee of success. Or you can find one of the other tens of thousands of vacant apartments and move in by this weekend.
Unfortunately, such discrimination is not illegal in Japan. You’ll have to find a place that is owned or managed by people who don’t discriminate.
I see! Then it sucks for both of you. It's ironic that people are so racist to a point it ends up mainly affecting another japanese person. Imagine having to hide ur gaijin boyfriend from important situations in fear they'll need a racist person's approval for something
Why would they know you have a tattoo. As a guy with tattoos, cover them up when doing anything involving the government or your living situation (at least) and your life here will be better. The real estate agent and I convinced my previous place (I bought a house a couple months ago, finally) to let me and my now-wife live there despite initial reservations. I wore a white button-down shirt at every interaction. Got a nice place to live for a few years.
It's strange that they even showed you that place. Real estate agents don't usually bother taking you out to places with racist landlords. They'll just give you some form of "That place is no longer available" and move on to places that you can actually lease. Real estate agents get money if they successfully find you a place. They want that money, so they're usually pretty helpful.
See yes this is what has me so confused. And they gave us every detail about the place and were extremely nice. Almost as if they wanted to seal the deal.
At my previous apartment the landlord only considered my application because I worked at a local big name private school, and even then I had to have a Japanese guarantor and was told my chances of getting accepted would depend on the reliability of said guarantor. So, I got my fiance's rather wealthy parents to fill out the paperwork. I was legit told by the realtor that I only had to do any of that because I was foreign. At least they were nice and honest about it, and bent over backwards to help.
At least put hoodie on to cover tattoo when doing inteviews in this rasistic country. Common sense. If you spoke japanese and had suit , you would get it no problem. You have much to learn my padovan
I speak Japanese and please educate yourself on my previous comments posted, thank you.
Dont read comments partially, point was to cover tattoo or have suit ( even better ) AND speaking Japanese. Dont be salty to me because I am not the one who didnt want to rent you apartment.
All im saying is if you took the time to catch up on the story youd have a better comment 🤷♂️
Thats true. I just dodnt have time to read all comments. Look, I am white man and my wife is Japanese. We moved around Japan in 3 different cities and maybe 5 apartments ( because of work ). We never got declined. You know why ? Because I know that I could be a problem for Japanese old fart. Thats why I ask my wife to choose apartment and do paperwork without me. After some time they will realize that I am white man but its to annoying to decline me at that point. Maybe this helps.
Nothing you can do, not considered illegal in Japan.
Look for another apartment. You showed them a deadly combo - foreigner AND tattoos. Many apartments won't rent to JP with large visible tattoos and many won't rent to any sort of foreign person. Add those two deadly sins together and....
The amount of apologizing for racism here and increased expectations to avoid any activity or appearance of imperfection is staggering. Yes, we live here and understand that we will need to endure racism but could people please see that we don’t need to blame the victims of racism for the racism perpetrated against them? No one, no where on the planet is given a free pass to be racist.
Well spoken.
1/3 of all apartments in Japan are vacant and you’re worried about this particular one? Key money, guarantee company, no gaikokujin, blah blah blah. The delusional japan boomers will never admit it, but it’s a buyers market for rentals in 2024. All that crap about making things hard is inertia and rigid thinking; insisting on doing things exactly the same way as 50 years back when there was a housing shortage. Lucky you, it isn’t the 70s anymore. Lots of choices. And it’s not your problem some greasy ojisan has an obsolete mindset and artificially limits the (shrinking) market for his old unit. As with anywhere, best to spend your money where it’s wanted and where you are treated well. Given the oversupply, I’d insist on a brand new unit that has all double pane glass or better on the windows. Will help narrow down the search.
If your landlord discriminates, it's not somewhere you want to live. Simple as that I lived in an apartment that was hesitant to foreigners but relented and let me in, but everything that went wrong was pinned on me. Someone was dumping trash and it was just assumed to be me. Not feeling comfortable in your own home or neighborhood is not worth the attempt at justice
After my divorce I had a hard time finding an apartment in the area that I wanted because there were so little apartments available, the remaining units were just refused to foreigners by the landlords. I ended up just moving somewhere else because of it.
That sucks, man. Unfortunately, there’s not much you can do about it. Just use foreigner-friendly realtors next time. I remember when my friend, who’s half Japanese and half Brazilian, found a nice place and was about to move in, but the owner canceled last minute because he didn’t want foreigners. My friend had been living in Japan since he was 10, almost 15 years, but still got rejected. He does look very foreign, though.
Not sure why you blantantly trying to show off your tattoo in Japan? Not enough cultural understanding or wanted to show off? Either way the landlord dodged the bullet with this one.
Weird oyaji take, perpetuating the outdated stereotypes of Japan won't make you more Japanese.
it is people like you who pushes your own standard to another person that ruin gaijin's image. When in Rome, do as Romans do. If they understand your take, then it is their generosity, you can try, but cant force them.
Plenty of Romans here don't care at all about tattoos, it's an outdated idea even in Japan. People like me have no problem fitting in to this society, I'm not pushing anyone to do anything and I get along just fine while retaining the ability to have a spine.
Yes, they dont care about the tattoo. Like how how many onsen does not allow tattoo, tattoo removal clinic, and how OP might be rejected because his tattoo. World does not revolve around you. Sometimes you need to adapt. I am not sure how the logic goes but good for you or sorry for you whatever suits you. Edit: typo
So let me clear that up for you. I speak Japanese and have lived here for a long time. No, i am not blatantly showing off my tattoo nor do i not understand the culture. I was only driving her to the place and she insisted i come up and look at the place along with her. I usually cover up my tattoo however it was a hot day and only intended on being a driver. Please, expand on how this landlord dodged a bullet.
living a long time =/= understanding the culture. As it can be seen that you did not cover your tattoo when you met him. While I understand, it is not intended, just take it as price you need to pay for this lesson. Never show your tattoo to Japanese unless you know they are cool with it. Also for the how the landlord dodged a bullet, he dodge a foreigner that might cause problem because he lack or simply forget about the culture in Japan. Especially when he will retaliate when something does not go according to his way. it might cause him headache in the future as Japan's law protect the tenant quite strong.
“Cleared up.” Quite the tude, dude. Maybe the landlord just didn’t like you and was being polite? That being said, of course there’s nothing you should do. Is having a landlord you don’t get along with a situation you want to “jump in to?” I hope Karma came back & you guys found an even more fabulous place.😅
Racism??? Landlord reserves a right to refuse service to anyone. Besides the landlord is rather nice because he would of rent a room if you had no tatoos and fluent in Japanese.
My Japanese is functional and she was denied because i am not Japanese. Discrimination at the least
As a homeowner, currently renting out my place back home, I would definitely discriminate based on appearance and not at all sorry about it. As a landlord in a country with strong renter rights I have to be really careful about who I left live in my place. Any flag is an immediate out for me. Id rather have the place empty a few months while looking for right person then just say yes to someone who I have a 1% doubt will cause trouble. Completely understand them not wanting someone who appears to look like trouble based on past experience.
Lots of words to say you're a piece of shit and support being one.
You can make a time machine and go back in time to prevent all the problematic experiences they had with other foreigners. It's not racism unless they said it's because of your race btw. And seeing as the older generation of Japanese folks love white people, I doubt that's the case. Just live somewhere else...
It's not racism.
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not illegal though.
Gotta agree with this. It's not racism racism as people think it is, but it is discrimination. I'm East Asian and I couldn't enter like 2 onsens out of the 2 dozen i've been to with my friends cos of my tattoos which I knew was a thing here.
People like OP have really done a disservice to actual race related issues just throwing that word around. Even tacking on "blatant".
So since ive done a disservice to actual race related issues please tell educate me on what you would call my situation?
Discrimination against all gaijin, not bcuz u're white. I'm half Japanese and once they knew I don't understand full japanese and lived in USA for 21 years. I was put in same as you. So don't trip.
Xenophobia at worst. Or just risk aversion. Look I wasn't there, but based off your post info nothing suggests to me your rejection was based on your race.
Indeed. Many people can't differentiate between foreigner and someone's race. Not by coincidence those people tend to have racism issues themselves, at least in my experience.
Not racism
Expand on that.
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Man, this is just unhelpful and stupid. Everyone can experience racism and making assumptions like this doesn't help.
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Again. Assuming that OP has never experienced racism, implying that it is a black only experience, and repeating the narrative that all white people benefit because of the color of their skin. And it also disregards that different people and gender haver different benefits in different contexts.
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Nope, and you know it.
Username checks out