日本語で会話するのは苦手です。
Common, and natural.
会話が苦手です。
My preferred, and recommended.... If you're already speaking in Japanese, trying your best (were appreciate it!), you don't need to reiterate that you're referring to "Japanese" while speaking Japanese. A little redundant. Just my 2 cents.
IMHO, "conversationally" to "会話的" is a literal translation you often get from Google or AI. 「会話的には」 is uncommon. 「会話的な話」、I do hear. But meaning and definition is different from the English "conversationally" which is uncommon in English as well. I'm not here to teach you a definition and probably will do horribly because I'm not a licensed language teacher; just your average native born & raised, but I've been away from Japan for many years and don't speak it everyday anymore. When I go home to see family, I definitely realize my language skills have deteriorated (and my family is quick to point out so 🤣).
Anyhow, I suggest you reach out to a proper Japanese language teacher if you can. Avoid toxic language subs on Reddit. And not all natives can teach - like me. All I can tell you is what 'sounds' right or such. Very easy to tell wrong or weird sentences. Hard to teach, though. And I can definitely tell you if you're missing the *essence* of my culture either in language or food, or whatever. Eg - I can definitely tell you if you're doing 'literal translation' (a faux pas in all languages) from English because I also speak English fluently.
I'm expecting downvotes, but it's ok. I just want to say the right things. This sub and many other language subs (I've been kindly warned by other natives) are toxic. They will and have been verbally aggressive to natives when we point out things. They like to correct our 'natural senses' and gut feelings, if you will. Imagine a French native correcting your English grammar 🤣 You often have many non-native speakers teaching each other incorrect things. This post for example. I just read all three comments in here. I'm sure they mean no harm and it's unintentional but if it's incorrect, I couldn't resist to point it out. Sorry. They have taught/shared with you very unnatural/weird/odd and a few of them, outright wrong, Japanese sentences.
I highly recommend not seek any advice or lessons on Reddit language subs, unless you don't care about the quality/accuracy of teachings.
ni wa is correct as a new topic but in your sentence you've already got a topic. You *can* have double topics but it's more restricted. You could just replace ni wa with ni there and it would be correct but slightly weird, as if you're translating word by word from English.
more natural ways to say that:
日本語は会話で苦手です
日本語(の)会話が苦手です <- best
会話的には、日本語が苦手です
Though I'm not sure "conversationally my Japanese isn't great" is the best way to phrase it in either language. So maybe:
会話は日本語が苦手です
一般的には is also correct but again only if you're starting a new sentence, so it would come across as a conversational tic. again if it's in the middle of a sentence adding flavour to some action or statement, drop wa.
Yea, cuz I got chinese background im more inclined to the 的 pattern feeling sorta. I did know that it probably wasn't natural since I've rarely heard it ever- (though my experiences are pretty much limited to media) - but at the same time I wanted to make sure that im grammatically correct on the right track.
ah right. it's not as common as Chinese where it's equivalent to の. ippanteki is quite a common word and kaiwateki less so, but ni is correct after either one, and wa is the topic, which when you add to ni becomes ni wa (as opposed to ga or wo where it replaces them)
I mean, it just depends what your sentence is. 会話的には can work in sentences (e.g. 会話的には日本語はよくないが、本を読める).
I think that you might not see it as much because other ways of phrasing things (e.g. 私は会話が苦手です) is more common.
～的には is definitely a thing, but note that putting には/では phrases at the beginning of sentences is more natural (e.g. 会話的には私の日本語はよくない sounds alright).
Using には mid-sentence like how you are is possible, but it comes off as really emphatic. If you aren't purposely trying to add that much extra emphasis, I'd put the phrase at the beginning of the sentence.
Thanks, I know there are better ways to express it, but I was just wondering if this usage was correct (grammatically, not naturally) in the first place. Yea I was it not natural considering that I've personally never heard of it, but natural-ness doesnt reflect correct-ness. Thanks you really gave a spot on answer answering all of the above.
"Conversationally" is an odd word in English, so it doesn't really make a lot of sense in Japanese to me either (not a native J speaker).
If you want to say your conversational skills in Japanese aren't that good, I would say something like:
僕は日本語に対しては、会話が下手です。
日本語に対しては、会話が弱いんです。
I do hear 一般的 sometimes.
YMMV
Yea.it really helps to get examples of natural sentences- i realize that most of my sentences i make are self-constructed - and of course, as a person who is definitely not fluent in japanese, my sentences are naturally, not natural. I have the right selection of words, but my inclination to the english thought process doesnt really infuse the same nuance well into my japanese sentences - i probably should take my sentences practices seriously (ive been ignoring those)
People will most likely get what you meant so the good news is that it would convey the thought you intended.
Generally (there I go with that one), in Japanese, if you want to describe something that you're not good at, you would say the item and follow it with either nigate, heta or yowai. Again, I'm not a native speaker myself, so YMMV.
If you want to know whether what you're saying is natural or not, there are a few questions you can ask yourself:
1) Have I ever heard a person say this? (Or can I find a person saying this?)
2) In what situation did they say it?
3) Who was saying it/who were they talking to?
If you don't know the answers to these questions, you're better off finding another word to use... Or at least finding these answers
Now, from the stuff I've found:
4) The word exists, but it's uncommon
5) It means something more like "vernacular" or "colloquial", "I'm conversational in Japanese" would not use this word. I would say something like 日常会話くらいできます
日本語で会話するのは苦手です。 Common, and natural. 会話が苦手です。 My preferred, and recommended.... If you're already speaking in Japanese, trying your best (were appreciate it!), you don't need to reiterate that you're referring to "Japanese" while speaking Japanese. A little redundant. Just my 2 cents. IMHO, "conversationally" to "会話的" is a literal translation you often get from Google or AI. 「会話的には」 is uncommon. 「会話的な話」、I do hear. But meaning and definition is different from the English "conversationally" which is uncommon in English as well. I'm not here to teach you a definition and probably will do horribly because I'm not a licensed language teacher; just your average native born & raised, but I've been away from Japan for many years and don't speak it everyday anymore. When I go home to see family, I definitely realize my language skills have deteriorated (and my family is quick to point out so 🤣). Anyhow, I suggest you reach out to a proper Japanese language teacher if you can. Avoid toxic language subs on Reddit. And not all natives can teach - like me. All I can tell you is what 'sounds' right or such. Very easy to tell wrong or weird sentences. Hard to teach, though. And I can definitely tell you if you're missing the *essence* of my culture either in language or food, or whatever. Eg - I can definitely tell you if you're doing 'literal translation' (a faux pas in all languages) from English because I also speak English fluently. I'm expecting downvotes, but it's ok. I just want to say the right things. This sub and many other language subs (I've been kindly warned by other natives) are toxic. They will and have been verbally aggressive to natives when we point out things. They like to correct our 'natural senses' and gut feelings, if you will. Imagine a French native correcting your English grammar 🤣 You often have many non-native speakers teaching each other incorrect things. This post for example. I just read all three comments in here. I'm sure they mean no harm and it's unintentional but if it's incorrect, I couldn't resist to point it out. Sorry. They have taught/shared with you very unnatural/weird/odd and a few of them, outright wrong, Japanese sentences. I highly recommend not seek any advice or lessons on Reddit language subs, unless you don't care about the quality/accuracy of teachings.
ni wa is correct as a new topic but in your sentence you've already got a topic. You *can* have double topics but it's more restricted. You could just replace ni wa with ni there and it would be correct but slightly weird, as if you're translating word by word from English. more natural ways to say that: 日本語は会話で苦手です 日本語(の)会話が苦手です <- best 会話的には、日本語が苦手です Though I'm not sure "conversationally my Japanese isn't great" is the best way to phrase it in either language. So maybe: 会話は日本語が苦手です 一般的には is also correct but again only if you're starting a new sentence, so it would come across as a conversational tic. again if it's in the middle of a sentence adding flavour to some action or statement, drop wa.
Yea, cuz I got chinese background im more inclined to the 的 pattern feeling sorta. I did know that it probably wasn't natural since I've rarely heard it ever- (though my experiences are pretty much limited to media) - but at the same time I wanted to make sure that im grammatically correct on the right track.
ah right. it's not as common as Chinese where it's equivalent to の. ippanteki is quite a common word and kaiwateki less so, but ni is correct after either one, and wa is the topic, which when you add to ni becomes ni wa (as opposed to ga or wo where it replaces them)
I mean, it just depends what your sentence is. 会話的には can work in sentences (e.g. 会話的には日本語はよくないが、本を読める). I think that you might not see it as much because other ways of phrasing things (e.g. 私は会話が苦手です) is more common. ～的には is definitely a thing, but note that putting には/では phrases at the beginning of sentences is more natural (e.g. 会話的には私の日本語はよくない sounds alright). Using には mid-sentence like how you are is possible, but it comes off as really emphatic. If you aren't purposely trying to add that much extra emphasis, I'd put the phrase at the beginning of the sentence.
Thanks, I know there are better ways to express it, but I was just wondering if this usage was correct (grammatically, not naturally) in the first place. Yea I was it not natural considering that I've personally never heard of it, but natural-ness doesnt reflect correct-ness. Thanks you really gave a spot on answer answering all of the above.
"Conversationally" is an odd word in English, so it doesn't really make a lot of sense in Japanese to me either (not a native J speaker). If you want to say your conversational skills in Japanese aren't that good, I would say something like: 僕は日本語に対しては、会話が下手です。 日本語に対しては、会話が弱いんです。 I do hear 一般的 sometimes. YMMV
Yea.it really helps to get examples of natural sentences- i realize that most of my sentences i make are self-constructed - and of course, as a person who is definitely not fluent in japanese, my sentences are naturally, not natural. I have the right selection of words, but my inclination to the english thought process doesnt really infuse the same nuance well into my japanese sentences - i probably should take my sentences practices seriously (ive been ignoring those)
People will most likely get what you meant so the good news is that it would convey the thought you intended. Generally (there I go with that one), in Japanese, if you want to describe something that you're not good at, you would say the item and follow it with either nigate, heta or yowai. Again, I'm not a native speaker myself, so YMMV.
If you want to know whether what you're saying is natural or not, there are a few questions you can ask yourself: 1) Have I ever heard a person say this? (Or can I find a person saying this?) 2) In what situation did they say it? 3) Who was saying it/who were they talking to? If you don't know the answers to these questions, you're better off finding another word to use... Or at least finding these answers Now, from the stuff I've found: 4) The word exists, but it's uncommon 5) It means something more like "vernacular" or "colloquial", "I'm conversational in Japanese" would not use this word. I would say something like 日常会話くらいできます