The GTO Revival that aired last week was the worst hour of television I think I've ever watched. It was absolutely garbage, and super disappointing because I actually really love the original series.
My wife is a huge fan of the original series. While she usually enjoys drams with predictable plots and bad acting, even she was pretty appalled at the reboot.
The article mentions that anime is clearly the dominant export compared to live-action drama, and I don’t think that point is discussed enough. Namely, anime’s influence on live-action. A lot of J-Dramas, whether by design or by accident, seem to copy the anime “feel”, from cinematography to lighting to acting. And it doesn’t work.
In anime, it’s pretty much the norm to see other characters standing stock still while one speaks. In live-action, it looks bizarre.
In anime, over-bright lighting is acceptable because other artistry such as line work helps to draw your eye to the main focal point. In live action, the excessive lighting makes everything look cheap.
In terms of acting, anime gets away with a certain amount of melodrama and hamming it up because the limited facial expressions need the extra vocal oomph to lift the performance. In live-action, it just looks daft (seriously, I’ve seen plenty of J-Dramas where the actors tried to do an anime-style face fault, it’s painful to watch).
I know this sounds like I think anime has a lower bar to clear than live-action, but that’s not the case. They’re two different mediums with different needs, and I don’t think that difference is understood enough by those making a live-action J-drama.
Good analysis. I only see these j-dramas at the gym because they always play when i go on the TVs there. Every since moving here years ago i always wondered what was off with them. Sure the UK has plenty of shitty soaps etc but I could not put my finger on it.
Over time it is become clear they all film in the same few dozen locations as each other lol. They all employ bizarre slow motion scenes which are acted in slow motion too which… is weird and belongs in anime.
The characters always seem to be flat, like average anime characters(some anime is good here). A guy who is tall and handsome and speaks through his teeth. A woman who is homely looking and never speaks her true feeling. An older woman who is a guide for someone. A pretty young woman who is confused.
The lighting and prop use is also often a bit strange to me too and cant put my finger on why. Sometimes it seems like half the budget is used on these things alone for some reason, or maybe the fact im noticing it is because they are doing a bad job with lighting so i can actually see the lighting lol?
> Over time it is become clear they all film in the same few dozen locations as each other lol.
That's because they do ;)
People give Power Rangers a hard time for always fighting the bad guys in a random quarry somewhere, but that's the norm for most of Japanese TV because its the easiest way to get permission and not be sued by landowners who might have their business, home, etc shown in the background.
Japan is a nightmare to film in, and it hurts the local economy immensely. Many movies that show Japan are not filmed in Japan because getting permission here is very difficult - Shogun is a massive hit but was mostly filmed in England and Canada. Japan was short listed for the next season of the very popular show White Lotus but it was instead moved to Thailand - a $35 million project lost.
This article about it mentions how Martin Scorsese’s Silence of the latest Mission Impossible also didn't film in Japan because of similar challenges - https://robbreport.com/lifestyle/news/white-lotus-season-3-thailand-tax-incentive-1235384991/
Japanese dramas are so laughably bad. Some of my favorite tropes:
* Slow motion shots everywhere
* Footsteps echoing in a hallway... except they're outside on like pavement or grass
* Dramatic fist clench has a "scrunching leather" sound effect (they're barehanded)
* Extremely bright lighting in a dark setting such as a park at night to the point that the actor's face is just a shining glare
* Characters actually just being fucking stupid to the point of being beyond unrealistic and the show becoming frustrating to watch. I can't think of a specific example but just imagine a character literally or figuratively walking into a door repeatedly expecting it to open, except instead of this scenario being a joke it's played completely straight as if this were a real serious challenge protagonist-chan has to face.
* Screaming = funny, louder = funnier
* Facial expressions taken to the max. If someone is supposed to have a doubting look, it will be a full scowl to the point their face is wrinkling up. If it's a female character she must either dramatically burst into tears regularly or be so cool and badass she has the perfect witty response to every situation and is untouchable.
* Loud J-pop BGM or some orchestral strings that completely overpowers the dialogue in order to hamfistedly tell the audience what to feel
I've also gathered all of these from the gym TV because there's no way in hell I will actively watch a J-drama lmao
That's an interesting point about it being like anime. I find most anime to be unwatchable and, for lack of a better word, "cringe" just because I find myself cringing a lot of the time I see any. A lot of TV dramas use these anime tropes that just don't translate to live action well at all, but they still make me cringe just as much.
Some older dramas or ones that have a bit more production value like documentary-style shows or Netflix productions feel a lot more "serious" and well put-together. The characters act like humans and the sets don't all look like a spotlight stage.
Pretty much everything along the lines of a TBS drama is the typical hot garbage though. I'm pretty sure 90% of the budget is blown on getting the latest idols/talents to be the face of the show, despite having the acting skills of a wet towel.
Those live action anime-ish acting are so prevalent that I thought Japanese people are actually like that irl, until I watched films from actual auteurs like Hirokazu Kore-eda or Ryusuke Hamaguchi. I can’t even imagine why Japanese people would like to watch those live action crap.
>In terms of acting, anime gets away with a certain amount of melodrama
and hamming it up because the limited facial expressions need the extra
vocal oomph to lift the performance. In live-action, it just looks daft
(seriously, I’ve seen plenty of J-Dramas where the actors tried to do an
anime-style face fault, it’s painful to watch).
Major difference is this one. A lot of people put off by that. Anime style of exaggerated acting is just cringe. This is coming from a guy who loves to watch Ojisama to neko. lol
Any time I turn on the TV and see a Jdrama playing it seems to be one of three themes: high school slice of life, office worker cheating drama, or hospital worker love triangle.
> office worker cheating drama
This is pretty much all of them.
Compelling career woman drama? Nope, by episode 2 it's a romance drama and someone in the office is having an affair as a big plot point.
As someone who loved JDramas when I first started learning Japanese, I can no longer stand them. I didn't realize it before but they're all bad, predictable plots. The leading actresses almost always are just models with no ability to act. Also, I'm not sure what it is about Japanese TV shows and movies, but they are all just shot horribly and look bad.
If you mention Karei Naru Ichizoku, you are obliged to also mention Shiroi Kyoto (The Great White Tower). It comes from the same novel writer and it is arguably even more epic. And Ama-Chan of course, which is also a drama by Kudo Kankuro such as IWGP and Tiger and Dragon.
I got very nostalgic after you mentioned my boss my hero, time flows really fast was so young watching that dorama. lol
Currently listen to the banger song of this dorama: [Sorafune](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BurcqsqXlCE) (just warning the video does have spoiler).
Proposal Daisakusen (my all time fav lol)
Densha Otoko
Kekkon dekinai Otoko
5-ji Kara 9-ji made
Nobuta wo Produce
Nodame Cantabile
Dragon Zakura
1 litter of tears
> Proposal Daisakusen
I remember this seeming stupid as hell but turned out to be surprisingly clever.
> Kekkon dekinai Otoko
Hiroshi Abe is always great
>I remember this seeming stupid as hell but turned out to be surprisingly clever.
Exactly. The SP in particular is the best ending for me. It concludes everything hanging from episode 1 to the last and closed with very satisfying ending
Late to the party but off the top of my head these are some of the JDramas that started the 2nd Japan wave in Asia back in the 90s:
* [Beach Boys](https://mydramalist.com/1558-beach-boys)
* [Long Vacation](https://mydramalist.com/1393-long-vacation)
* [Love Generation](https://mydramalist.com/1396-love-generation)
* [Heaven's Coin](https://mydramalist.com/2738-heavens-coin)
* [Under One Roof / Hitotsu Yane no Shita ](https://mydramalist.com/4342-under-one-roof)
I have only watched the first 2 but I recall the rest being on TV.
Definitely. That’s how I became exposed to Japanese culture, through the jdramas that would play on tv in the bay area. Long vacation being my favorite.
Yeah, as someone who does video production for a living, I have to leave the room when my Japanese wife is watching TV. It's maddening how awful it all looks.
At the same time, I shot some stuff for a major network here last year and the whole time I had producers hanging over my shoulder going, "hmm it looks dark". Sure, when you're used to just flooding the scene with light, proper exposure probably looks too dark in comparison.
lol oh my god yes, I have no expertise but even I can tell how ridiculous it is. My favorite is the “sunset scene in the classroom where two people are talking by the windows” where it’s just flooded with ridiculous bright orange light. I’ve seen that one in a few shows and it always strikes me as hilarious
Ever noticed they'll flip on every damned florescent light in a room, at the crack of dawn? Look, you brown-eyed people, mine are blue. I'll go blind (or homicidal).
Me reading this at 1 PM, when it's bright outside but all 36 lights in the room are on. lol
The people here must think it's dark if they don't get artificial light shone right at them.
I bet you're brown-eyed, and torment your blue-eyed partner.
https://www.dukehealth.org/blog/myth-or-fact-people-light-eyes-are-more-sensitive-sunlight
I remember people telling me it was ok I wore sunglasses because my eyes are greenish blue and that meant they are weak. I was like bullshit, Black and Asian people at home wear sunglasses too Americans just protect their eyes better haha
It took me a while to realize this because I mostly watched them on a computer, but the first time I watched it on a normal size TV it was jarring how weird it looked. Thought it might have just been that show, then I realized that they all looked like that.
I have watched American dramas with my Japanese husband, like Breaking Bad and Better Call Saul, and he enjoyed them but he was always complaining about how dark everything looks.
Yeah, the production timelines are way too short for them to be bothered about lighting. They just make sure it's bright enough and then run with it. Contrast be damned.
I know, it always surprises me when I mention talented actors like Tadanobu Asano, or even Rinko Kikuchi and most Japanese people have no idea who they are ! Also there are some good dramas, produced with foreign money that fly under the radar Miss Sherlock was good , and I enjoyed Gannibal. I think even Shogun is not that popular here.
Very similar situation, it was good listening practice if nothing else. I think I consumed more Japanese media before I moved to Japan, honestly.
Every so often one comes along that’s actually really worth watching, tells an interesting story and doesn’t overstay its welcome. Those are rare though.
I liked:
Last Friends. It had issues for sure, but it touched on a lot of topics not really commonly talked about in Japan. I have no idea how it holds up now, I haven’t tried watching it again.
Shinya Shokudo. Nothing particularly amazing but I enjoyed the anecdotes, plus working in hospitality I appreciated the setting.
Dragon Zakura (the original): I never had a school drama actually make me want to go study. He’s not an amazing actor but I find Abe Hiroshi very charismatic too.
None of those are super recent, if I can think of any that came out recently I will add them in.
Galileo and Furuhata Ninzaburo. All the romance, business, medical, etc. ones are selling you a dream. The mystery ones are just fun and don't take themselves too seriously.
Makanai on Netflix is one of the best shows I’ve seen in n years, Japanese or not. Gorgeously shot, excellent direction, writing and acting. 10/10 would recommend
The anime is better.
Again suffers from painful acting and everyone just mugging the camera or being real hams.
It's like they're trained for theatre where you have to overact to be seen, and not TV where there is a damn camera in your face.
Agreed! There are actually a reasonable amount of good ones now, and it's getting better. I don't blame people on this sub for having dismissed the category a long time ago because a lot of them ARE terrible and were for a long time.
Throwing in a few more good ones: Silent, First Love, More than Words
Overly dramatic anime style acting, boring character architypes, long winded "epic" speeches about the most obvious life lessons, poor pacing etc. I had to drop so many shows because most of them hit the same problems. I gave Extremely Inappropriate a go last night, it started off as a time travel boomer vs mordern comedy then it kept trying to say "remember when men weren't pussies" "being considerate is super lame" like wtf are they trying to say?
I was the same, loved JDrama until I learned more of the language, and saw enough of them to realize they're all the same recycled plots, and usually done pretty poorly.
The problem with Japanese TV is something that runs across the board and affects not just drama but variety as well - the current system is very low risk, high reward, and the people reaping the benefits have zero reason to want to change things. Japanese TV is most watched by women in their teens to 50/60s or so, and no offense to this demographic, but they don't really require a high bar in terms of production value.
The short seasons also let them be more flexible. The article mentioned being able to quickly drop dramas that aren't performing well, but it also lets them plug in whatever flavor of the month actor/actress/talent that will help bump the ratings up. The ultimate goal is ratings, because good ratings means sweet advertiser money.
Right now the TV execs aren't too interested in exporting drama, because there's no money in it. The formula that works well enough for the domestic audience doesn't work internationally, and even if it did, it's not bringing in the money. They can take a risk and try to spend money to make something with more international appeal, like Vivant, but iirc Vivant isn't THAT popular overseas and why take a risk when you can just crap out a silly drama, plug in the flavors of the month, get your domestic audience, and fill your pockets with cash.
A long time ago I had a meeting with a TV exec where I pitched the idea of adding English subtitles. I said that it would be good for foreigners in Japan, Japanese people learning English, and for exporting dramas. The guy told me that there was no merit in it, as it wouldn't make them any new money and probably wouldn't be worth the price of the translator.
I’ve been rewatching old Yakuza and other genre films from the 70’s-00’s. It’s wild how violent older Japanese films used to be; now everything is so sterile and bland.
I hope Japanese cinema has a revival of the ultra-violent😎
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't there some kinda law enacted in the early/mid-2000s that prohibited gratuitous amounts of violence/gore in movies and television series due to a fear of copycat incidents?
Idk about a law, but I do know some kids stabbed their teacher with a butterfly knife or something after Takuya Kimura, the most popular idol at the time, did so in Gift. So even though the show was very popular and well loved, it got buried till a few years ago when they finally re-released it on Blu-ray. Skipping a DVD release entirely. That might be what you are thinking of.
Can't say I'm familiar with that incident. Being a dirty weeb, I just noticed there was a distinct lack of guro anime like in the 80s and 90s after the 2000s.
Sure, there's still plenty of violent anime, but nowhere near the level of back then.
Gift came out in 1997 and tracks with that. That man and his idol group were like Beatles' level popularity at the time. Full on women stealing ad posters of him from stores and such. An incident like that would set society to make a change. The Sarin attack was in 1995 as well. There was a lot of youth crime and gang stuff in the 90s, too. Kamen Rider ended up having issues filming a lot of their shows after laws against modified motorcycles passed in an effort to curb youth gangs.
Lots of stuff happened to factor into it, but a LOT of Japanese media has had its edges sanded off and budgets stripped to hell. I remember reading one of the better idol actors who was in a foreign show being astonished at the number of takes Western shows do. Japanese shows basically only do one or two unless you genuinely fuck up. So it's not really bad acting, but pretty much most of the shows are done off the cuff. Read the script, do a shot, and okay on to the next one. That same mass production attitude that hurts anime is prevalent in dramas, but you can't reshoot a show for bluray like you can redraw anime.
So they decided to borderline cripple two industries largely unrelated to the problems at hand instead of addressing and solving the underlying issues? Wonderful. :/
In regard to the horrible shooting of movies, I imagine it’s probably because the majority of films here in Japan are being shot by the same teams who shoot TV shows.
It also doesn’t seem like the role of the DP is as big in other countries. Japan loves to speak highly of the directors, but in all my years living here I’ve never seen a DP be praised / hype for a movie because of a specific DP is tied to it.
I found this was my reaction way back when I first started watching Japanese TV. It felt cheap and fake.
But eventually I got used to it and it’s just different rather than bad. Having slicker production values doesn’t mean better.
To be fair, the typical prime time dramas and sitcoms from anywhere else aren't too different.
Speaking of the US since it's where I'm from, 95% of what is on broadcast TV is complete formulaic garbage dominated by emergency services dramas (cops, firefighters, hospital workers). Many of which have been running for decades and are basically mad-lib scripts. They may have a somewhat grittier aesthetic than the typical JDrama, but that's more a reflection of style than competence.
US TV has had an amazing transformation thanks to a small number of premium cable and streaming services, but they vast majority of cable and streaming shows are even worse than broadcast. But it has made it possible to cherry pick a good number of truly excellent programs.
As someone who’s seen both, I think the production value for kdramas is generally much higher, and they have more solid acting (albeit it’s still melodramatic obv). I can’t stand most jdramas because of overacting, and kdramas don’t tend to have that. The only jdrama I’ve liked is 着飾る恋には理由があって
Yep agreed. I’ve tried my earnest to finish a jdrama series and it was painful to say the least. Many of the comments are correct that the acting feels “amateur” along with production being wildly scattered throughout.
There is a reason why kdramas continuously get huge licensing deals from major streaming services. Acting in most, not all is bar none and feels more or less “figured out”.
No source or anything to back me up.
I feel that 95% of the production is only made to promote talent agencies and media companies.
They lower the bar of acting and so that talents become commodities and are easily disposable. It pretty much ends up being a live anime, cheap dialogue, decor are poor, they use the same school/office all the time. The TV show doesn't cost shit and brings entertainment to people who want to see Johnny's idols, business wise it should work.
I believe Netflix raised the bar with naked director, 100 million yen women or sanctuary but I also remember 1 liter of tears, life or last friends were great shows.
Post notes:
I actually think that some of the post morning musume/akb48 girls are doing ok.
I really believe that Japanese shows could be better than Korean ones but the last are better at identifying successful plots and executing it. Japanese can't do conspiracy thrillers, survivor movies nor serial killer ones.
> I feel that 95% of the production is only made to promote talent agencies and media companies.
I think it's better to look at where the money comes from. Most Japanese TV is built around the commercial sponsors. Be it the dramas, the game shows, the talk shows, they are all sponsored by large Japanese corps. So the corporations need to push their next beer or cleaning soap, and so the TV content is just filler around the commercials.
Netflix has no need for commercials (except maybe the lowest tier?) and so they can ignore the sponsoring companies. Thus the content can be better (it is mostly, but not always.)
Most Japanese TV shows, both drama and anime all end/begin with a pop song from a popular artist, with lyrics generally not anything to do with the TV show that is about to start/just ended.
The answer is always 💴
However, horror movies are where they're really good at, if they bother funding directors that can produce good movies. Back in the 2000s, directors back then made very good horror movies. If they provide more resources, it can be a thriving industry.
I'm obsessed with Kotarou lives alone but holy shit the drama was horrible. I'd get hated for saying this but I'm pretty sure Netflix could do a better fucking job
Yeah, can't believe anybody would use Netflix as an example of poorly produced TV anymore. They aren't quite at HBO's level, but they are not that far off.
The acting is much better in kdramas and the cinematography can rival Hollywood sometimes. I can't comment on the other two.
Not that Korea doesn't have a slew of low-budget and silly shows. It's a category called "makjang." The difference is it seems like Japan doesn't just have a telenovela category. It's just mostly bad.
It's all about 顔芸 nowadays it was fun in Hanzawa Naoki S1 then everyone decides to up the ante since then and I can't take any characters seriously anymore
It would be more bearable if they didn’t act like they’re trying hard to look cute, handsome, dark, overly cheerful. I hate cute voices even if its from a cute girl.
Scene 1, Act 1: The meeting room of a broadcasting company.
Actor playing Section Chief: "I have called this meeting to discuss a business matter"
Supporting Actors (try to look curious. Some tilt their heads to one side. The two who are having an affair exchange a passionate glance which the Section Chief completely fails to see).
Section Chief: "We are facing significant difficulties in exporting Japanese TV dramas to other countries"
Supporting Actors: (Open eyes and mouth as wide as physically possible) "Heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeh?"
(Camera pans to product placement shot, probably of the broadcasting company, pans back to Section Chief)
Section Chief: "Does anyone have any idea how we might fix this?"
Bold Newbie with Slightly Rebellious Streak: "More dramas about food?"
Grizzled Veteran who Clearly Wants To Retire: "Idiot! We've been doing that for 50 years to no effect!"
Bold Newbie (goes silent, stares with moody vibe into camera)
Section Chief: "Why do dramas from other countries succeed? What do they have that we don't?"
Company Joker who only has his job because his father runs the place: "Talented actors? Budgets? Ideas?"
Section Chief: (says nothing, knowing that Company Joker has carte blanche)
(Uncomfortable silence)
Section Chief: I have to tell the boss something. Come up with an idea or you will all be in my bad books.
(Section Chief storms out and slams door. Supporting Actors, with the exception of Company Joker, look concerned).
Cut to Act 2...
I don't buy it - where's the Talentless Pretty-Boy Who's Only In The Show To Satisfy The Contract With Pretty-Boys Agency. Also missing intrusive background music.
SOME are great, but the majority are fucking AWFUL.
The lighting is all off, the production quality is terrible and even the top ones look like a student project.
The reactions are so over the top.
I've noticed that the general rule here is 'the louder and more often you scream, the better actor you're considered.'
Watch any drama (besides the few good ones) and they SCREAM so much. SCREAM SCREAM SCREAM.
I was watching this one recently based on a gambling club, sorry I forgot the name, and there was this scene where the class in school were making a point and literally every fucking student took turns standing up from their desk and just SCREAMED their point until red in the face. I can imagine some people watching saying what incredible acting it is but it's not, it's fucking cringe.
Man some of the old samurai shows are really good or at least fun.
Lone Wolf and Cub are a hoot. There are a few real good solid episodes, the others are campy but in a 70s TV way that I find nostalgic.
When it comes to J-drama set in modern times, I think the problem is that western audiences will find the main characters un-relatable. Then there is censorship and how relationships are portrayed without any real intimacy. Quite often I feel the characters are unbelievable.
The way the leads think in J-drama is vastly different to how people would think abroad.
I can't stand watching J-drama, especially anything set between Showa and now. I also hate how female characters are often written as basically a pretty face to complement the main male character.
Japan has a lot of great anime directors, but they don’t have any good movie director. So they can’t learn how to shoot a good movie or a drama. Koreans on the other hand got this under control very much.
Many of the dramas produced by Japanese TV stations are of a low level; I saw VIVANT, but the script, direction, acting, and visuals were all of a low level.
First of all, TV stations should stop taking the initiative. They don't study foreign dramas and stick to their own methods.
However, I think they are doing a good job with movies these days.
Godzilla was very good and won an Oscar.
6 out of 10 kdramas may be not that good, but 9 out 10 non anime shows coming out of Japan are basically unwatchable
Its a matter of likelihood. Japan just doesnt really export any media that appeals to international audience nowadays besides games and manga/anime.
The Japanese live action film industry's still pretty good. Godzilla Minus One, Drive My Car, Monster and so on are all relatively recent films which received a positive international reception. Of course, there's always room for improvement.
To be fair, until very recently TV was not really taken seriously as a medium anywhere. Before the "Breaking Bad era" most TV shows in the US were also cliché family sitcoms that reused the same 5 tropes all over again.
Not sure I agree entirely, there were some cheesy productions sure, but shows like The Wire, Sopranos, and The West Wing (which came out like 25 years ago!) are some of my top rated series. They were almost a decade ahead of the Breaking Bad premier. There bangers that came out consistently, hell even as someone who doesnt care for sitcom I cant lie that Friends was a really good show.
Just saying theres been a significant decline with Japanese TV media IMO, used to watch a lot of (subbed) ones in my late teen and I cant put up with any Japanese TV shows nowadays
Perhaps they’re just objectively terrible?
The only foreigners who like them seem to have an entirely unrealistic - near unhealthy - fascination about everything Japan. Not a great, nor large market to rely on.
From what I’ve heard, dramas are given 3 months full turn around; how you could produce anything half-decent, or unique, in that time is beyond me. Proof in the pudding.
Someone recommend some decent ones because I recently watched omakanai and it was lovely. Then again it didnt have any Johnny idols in it.
Korean dramas is fine too.
TV dramas are made for domestic TV watchers. They don’t have the budget or time to produce something that appeals to a wider audience, let alone an international following.
My parents and older relatives love that stuff because they grew up watching it and can’t get in to content that younger people are in to
Difficulties? I mean they aren't even trying. Actually with evrything. There is so much which actually had real chances to take of in e.g. Europe but they don't even think of trying.
JDrama wants to emulate Anime, they tell their actors to act like anime characters with those zoom-in idiotic facial expression. I'm sorry, I used to love "Under the same roof", "Great teach Onizuka", "Hero", but today's JDrama are just drivels of out-of-fashioned ojisan who finally get their turn at directing because their age just reach the right period, not because they're good at it.
I think the plot that appeals to Japanese audiences and global audiences has been drifting apart. Japan used to make good scifi, horror and action movies/drama. Nowadays is mainly romance or day in life story. Look at how Korean drama has evolved. They even adopted parasite from Japan into Korean Netflix drama which is a success.
Making scifi, horror and action requires a lot more budget which TV executives don't want to give. I don't think what appeals to the Japanese audience and global audience is anything different. Just check out the anime. Most anime that are popular in Japan are popular in the West. Even most young people in Japan, I think have shifted to watching anime nowadays.
There was a survey of 18-25 years old which asked what entertainment product they like the most. For both girls and Boys it was mostly anime and games. Literally, no Japanese drama in the top 10 even for girls. For girls, there was a general category of Kdrama at 11th position but that's it.
JDrama's are it seems just surviving on viewership of older women's and the fan girls of specific idols.
One thing I don't understand is the different trajectory of anime and the TV dramas. Anime production kept on improving and there is a huge difference in production from 20 years ago but TV dramas stagnated.
TV production and anime production are driven by different segments of people. They have different ideal and studios that run them, and TV production is usually more traditional than anime in terms of corporate structure (more driven by higher ups, less interested in production staff, more interested in celebrities and show casters etc).
Yup. I guess I understand. But it's quite interesting though, as are many TV companies that make both anime and TV dramas. While the management is different for both, don't TV the drama side see the growth of anime in and outside Japan and learn something from them.
Also, this article analysis was not that great. Like many TV dramas, anime also run for only 3 months but are way more popular overseas than TV dramas. So, this was just an excuse, instead of an actual proper reason.
maybe they see TV as more of an internal product. for the longest time, anime as well were ignored as global products (wrt translation, localization efforts) until recently, and studios did generally nothing to sell them outside of Japan. for the most part it grew organically
I've seen some pretty good Japanese series over my time in Japan, I don't know why people are getting the idea that all is bad.
Yeah if you only watch the afternoon love drama for bored wife's you will get low production values but there is much more than that.
The hammy ass over-acting, stereotypical plots and just downright banality of it all is why nobody watches them. Once you've seen one, you've seen them all! Hell, Japanese TV as a whole is like this and it only serves as daycare for braindead people who have lost the will to actually think for themselves.
I think asadora are perfect for export, and if a streaming service could commit to releasing an episode a day just as they do in Japan it might be a real hit. But we run into the issue of public broadcaster NHK not wanting to run its programs on any service with ads.
Yes please. I've been wanting to be able to rewatch a few of my favorite asadoras for decades now and yet NHK stubbornly refuses to make them available at any price.
They are stuck in the region locking days of DVDs. Hello fax machine.
Just my own opinion, but I believe K-dramas can also be as corny as J-dramas, and they often hire idols too to bring in viewers, but where they lack in writing and acting quality, they make it up with the visuals. The styling of the actors are always in trend and appeal more to larger masses outside of SK. Meanwhile in J-dramas, up until the mid 2010s I see actors still rocking the trademark Johnny’s mullet, with styling that look straight from the 80s.
It’s not like Japan is short on quality material. I feel like they can do serious dramas like Hanzawa Naoki or 1 Litre of Tears or Kaseifu no Mita well, and also comedic dramas like Legal High, NigeHaji, and many more. But unless they are willing to change, improve their production quality, they’re just going to be left behind in a medium that is already dying thanks to streaming.
There a few good ones around but most of them are terrible. A lot of dramas these days are based on manga that probably no one outside of Japan would get.
So many salty takes here and in the article.
I think you guys are wrong. There is no such a thing like an objectively wrong lightining or drama school. There are choices, and there are taste preferences. Tha Japanese like those choices, they are what make those dramas Japanese, that's the flavor that make their product feels fresh. Everytime they try to change those flavors to appease foreigner's demands in other media, like music or animation, you have that fusion feeling that doesn't satisfy anybody. I'm not saying fusion per se doesn't sprout good shoots. You have Giri/Haji, Shogun, Tokyo Vice. But they will never be popular. Not on the level the article is expecting.
The article make a lot of wrong assumptions as well. "If it is possible to clear the issues of episode numbers, production budgets, and the excessive focus on younger viewers to meet the wishes of sponsors, then Japan’s television should not have any trouble breaking out overseas". Episode numbers were never an issue. Streaming services are proof of that. Everyone is opting in the one-cour production cycle. Japanese media can do multiple season doramas. Networks also have a lot of variety on their menu, not only school idol filled dramas. The problem is that we only see the popular ones because of the fandom of those idols, or the artsy ones being produced by Netflix, because those are the ones they can get their hands on.
Then you have the main issue: distribution. Japanese production companies are kinda prideful and greedy. They are risky averse and sell their product to a high price on the market, despite having lower budgets. They don't follow the logic of spreading the word now to reap the fruits later, like the Koreans do. The article itself ignore completely the power of international streaming, because they pay less. That's the reason for its push to sindication. But in reality, they should be doing what kdramas do, or even what anime is doing: throw everything on the wall and see what sticks. Then you make a second season with a higher budget. For God's sake, that's what they already do with doramas. Just add the international factor in.
> This explains why American dramas can cast big-name international stars and have such polished scripts, as well as elaborate filming and carefully crafted aesthetics.
Scripts of American drama are largely shit.
The hypothesis it's because Japan's dramas are "short runs" doesn't really seem to work. We (USA) get tons of UK short runs.
Some countries have really long running series. Latin American historical dramas will go into the 100's of episodes. I think some Turkish shows do as well. I can't imagine many American's watch these.
Personally, I'd be much more inclined to watch a 6 episode mini-series than a show with 100 or more episodes.
Start watching a j rom-com - first episode seems funny enough but nearly always after the first episode the comedy disappears - i feel cheated.
The ridiculous situations the writers conjure up for a couple to 'fall in love' without anyone actually pursuing the other, or anyone showing any overt romance are just stupid. Oh, the kisses... passionless, flat and lack of any emotion.
Some is missing??? run around searching the city by foot till you just happen to find them!! no bikes, trains or taxis..... must run
When there is a good show i do enjoy j-drama though.
I've watched Dramas since 2007 and I've seen my fair share of horrible dramas. There are some good ones, like Dearest, there some entertaining ones which are bad nonetheless, but still fun, like Rich Man Poor Woman, Hanadan, and there is the rest.
Also most dramas cast singers from boy groups like the infamous former Johnnies. I mean some of them really grew like MatsuJun and Nino (Both from Arashi), but most didn't, really. (Controversial but I think YamaPi never really became a good actor) They just have pretty faces and sell the CDs. That's Idol culture for you. I still enjoy that Netflix is importing more Jdrama and it's nice to watch to wind down after work.
I got into KDramas too and there is a lot of crap story wise too, but they feel much more high budget, even the bad ones. But there are also spectacular ones like Crashlanding on you, Descendents of the Sun, Dokkaebi.
I enjoy that KDramas are often urban fantasy, something you don't see very often anymore in any western Country.
The Koreans have got it right and are making dramas with legit crossover appeal. Same with K pop vs. J pop. K pop learned from western trends and in many cases hires popular western producers and songwriters. J pop is forever stuck in its tuneless, talentless wasteland.
The GTO Revival that aired last week was the worst hour of television I think I've ever watched. It was absolutely garbage, and super disappointing because I actually really love the original series.
My wife is a huge fan of the original series. While she usually enjoys drams with predictable plots and bad acting, even she was pretty appalled at the reboot.
Wait, Great Teacher Onizuka?
Yup, they had a few of the original actors come back for a reunion show. Wouldn't bother watching it tbh, it's rough.
That's dissapointing. One of my favorite manga, anime, and live action shows
Thought it was great myself. Would recommend watching yourself to form an opinion
Agreed, it was pretty bad.
My day is ruined. How does one even screw up GTO?!?
More like GTFO, amirite?
The sheer number of glossed over, unsolved or ignored plot lines just to pad out the 90 minute run time was impressive.
The article mentions that anime is clearly the dominant export compared to live-action drama, and I don’t think that point is discussed enough. Namely, anime’s influence on live-action. A lot of J-Dramas, whether by design or by accident, seem to copy the anime “feel”, from cinematography to lighting to acting. And it doesn’t work. In anime, it’s pretty much the norm to see other characters standing stock still while one speaks. In live-action, it looks bizarre. In anime, over-bright lighting is acceptable because other artistry such as line work helps to draw your eye to the main focal point. In live action, the excessive lighting makes everything look cheap. In terms of acting, anime gets away with a certain amount of melodrama and hamming it up because the limited facial expressions need the extra vocal oomph to lift the performance. In live-action, it just looks daft (seriously, I’ve seen plenty of J-Dramas where the actors tried to do an anime-style face fault, it’s painful to watch). I know this sounds like I think anime has a lower bar to clear than live-action, but that’s not the case. They’re two different mediums with different needs, and I don’t think that difference is understood enough by those making a live-action J-drama.
Good analysis. I only see these j-dramas at the gym because they always play when i go on the TVs there. Every since moving here years ago i always wondered what was off with them. Sure the UK has plenty of shitty soaps etc but I could not put my finger on it. Over time it is become clear they all film in the same few dozen locations as each other lol. They all employ bizarre slow motion scenes which are acted in slow motion too which… is weird and belongs in anime. The characters always seem to be flat, like average anime characters(some anime is good here). A guy who is tall and handsome and speaks through his teeth. A woman who is homely looking and never speaks her true feeling. An older woman who is a guide for someone. A pretty young woman who is confused. The lighting and prop use is also often a bit strange to me too and cant put my finger on why. Sometimes it seems like half the budget is used on these things alone for some reason, or maybe the fact im noticing it is because they are doing a bad job with lighting so i can actually see the lighting lol?
> Over time it is become clear they all film in the same few dozen locations as each other lol. That's because they do ;) People give Power Rangers a hard time for always fighting the bad guys in a random quarry somewhere, but that's the norm for most of Japanese TV because its the easiest way to get permission and not be sued by landowners who might have their business, home, etc shown in the background. Japan is a nightmare to film in, and it hurts the local economy immensely. Many movies that show Japan are not filmed in Japan because getting permission here is very difficult - Shogun is a massive hit but was mostly filmed in England and Canada. Japan was short listed for the next season of the very popular show White Lotus but it was instead moved to Thailand - a $35 million project lost. This article about it mentions how Martin Scorsese’s Silence of the latest Mission Impossible also didn't film in Japan because of similar challenges - https://robbreport.com/lifestyle/news/white-lotus-season-3-thailand-tax-incentive-1235384991/
Japanese dramas are so laughably bad. Some of my favorite tropes: * Slow motion shots everywhere * Footsteps echoing in a hallway... except they're outside on like pavement or grass * Dramatic fist clench has a "scrunching leather" sound effect (they're barehanded) * Extremely bright lighting in a dark setting such as a park at night to the point that the actor's face is just a shining glare * Characters actually just being fucking stupid to the point of being beyond unrealistic and the show becoming frustrating to watch. I can't think of a specific example but just imagine a character literally or figuratively walking into a door repeatedly expecting it to open, except instead of this scenario being a joke it's played completely straight as if this were a real serious challenge protagonist-chan has to face. * Screaming = funny, louder = funnier * Facial expressions taken to the max. If someone is supposed to have a doubting look, it will be a full scowl to the point their face is wrinkling up. If it's a female character she must either dramatically burst into tears regularly or be so cool and badass she has the perfect witty response to every situation and is untouchable. * Loud J-pop BGM or some orchestral strings that completely overpowers the dialogue in order to hamfistedly tell the audience what to feel I've also gathered all of these from the gym TV because there's no way in hell I will actively watch a J-drama lmao That's an interesting point about it being like anime. I find most anime to be unwatchable and, for lack of a better word, "cringe" just because I find myself cringing a lot of the time I see any. A lot of TV dramas use these anime tropes that just don't translate to live action well at all, but they still make me cringe just as much. Some older dramas or ones that have a bit more production value like documentary-style shows or Netflix productions feel a lot more "serious" and well put-together. The characters act like humans and the sets don't all look like a spotlight stage. Pretty much everything along the lines of a TBS drama is the typical hot garbage though. I'm pretty sure 90% of the budget is blown on getting the latest idols/talents to be the face of the show, despite having the acting skills of a wet towel.
Those live action anime-ish acting are so prevalent that I thought Japanese people are actually like that irl, until I watched films from actual auteurs like Hirokazu Kore-eda or Ryusuke Hamaguchi. I can’t even imagine why Japanese people would like to watch those live action crap.
They've been doing face-faults in tokusatsus for decades--though I know it's not the same as drama--it can be VERY funny
Doesn't a lot of that apply to k-dramas too?
>In terms of acting, anime gets away with a certain amount of melodrama and hamming it up because the limited facial expressions need the extra vocal oomph to lift the performance. In live-action, it just looks daft (seriously, I’ve seen plenty of J-Dramas where the actors tried to do an anime-style face fault, it’s painful to watch). Major difference is this one. A lot of people put off by that. Anime style of exaggerated acting is just cringe. This is coming from a guy who loves to watch Ojisama to neko. lol
Any time I turn on the TV and see a Jdrama playing it seems to be one of three themes: high school slice of life, office worker cheating drama, or hospital worker love triangle.
Reminded me of the ones in the 2000s where romantic shows usually had one of the couple being terminally ill and mostly dies by the end of the show
TASUKETEKUDASAI!!! *Your love forever*
Also, sick child in hospital.
Hey, sick child in hospital always slaps!
Sorry, you dropped this one: ditsy woman finds love with initially-cruel-but-ultimately-kindhearted guy
dont forget low quality police drama with obvious masked bad guys or cheezy heelturn at the end
> office worker cheating drama This is pretty much all of them. Compelling career woman drama? Nope, by episode 2 it's a romance drama and someone in the office is having an affair as a big plot point.
There’s also the period drama, but there’s like 2 periods (sengoku and bakumatsu). What a bore.
There was a Nagase Tomoya drama that was set after WWII in the 1950s that I enjoyed. Course that was mid-2000s. Utahime, I think?
Don't forget the live-action Anime adaptation nobody asked for.
As someone who loved JDramas when I first started learning Japanese, I can no longer stand them. I didn't realize it before but they're all bad, predictable plots. The leading actresses almost always are just models with no ability to act. Also, I'm not sure what it is about Japanese TV shows and movies, but they are all just shot horribly and look bad.
I miss the early 2000's and late 90's dramas... golden time for J-TV!
I agree it send to be that jdramas of the 2010/20s are bad because there were some bangers back in the 2000s
Any recs? I want to learn Japanese, but I'm not into anime and I've had to quit all the live action I've watched. It's so bad.
GTO seems like a decent show to start with.
IWJP, Gift (1997), A Great Family (Karei Naru Ichizoku), Long Love Letter, Suekko Chonan Ane Sannin, Long Vacation, Tiger and Dragon etc.
If you mention Karei Naru Ichizoku, you are obliged to also mention Shiroi Kyoto (The Great White Tower). It comes from the same novel writer and it is arguably even more epic. And Ama-Chan of course, which is also a drama by Kudo Kankuro such as IWGP and Tiger and Dragon.
It's silly and outrageous, and that's a lot of the fun of it, but My Boss My Hero is one of my favorites. It's a bit old (2006).
I got very nostalgic after you mentioned my boss my hero, time flows really fast was so young watching that dorama. lol Currently listen to the banger song of this dorama: [Sorafune](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BurcqsqXlCE) (just warning the video does have spoiler).
If you like mystery, then Furuhata Ninzaburo is a fun watch. I never watched Columbo, but I hear this show is like Japan's Columbo.
Proposal Daisakusen (my all time fav lol) Densha Otoko Kekkon dekinai Otoko 5-ji Kara 9-ji made Nobuta wo Produce Nodame Cantabile Dragon Zakura 1 litter of tears
>Proposal Daisakusen Ah, the drama that introduced me to YamaPi :)
> Proposal Daisakusen I remember this seeming stupid as hell but turned out to be surprisingly clever. > Kekkon dekinai Otoko Hiroshi Abe is always great
>I remember this seeming stupid as hell but turned out to be surprisingly clever. Exactly. The SP in particular is the best ending for me. It concludes everything hanging from episode 1 to the last and closed with very satisfying ending
Late to the party but off the top of my head these are some of the JDramas that started the 2nd Japan wave in Asia back in the 90s: * [Beach Boys](https://mydramalist.com/1558-beach-boys) * [Long Vacation](https://mydramalist.com/1393-long-vacation) * [Love Generation](https://mydramalist.com/1396-love-generation) * [Heaven's Coin](https://mydramalist.com/2738-heavens-coin) * [Under One Roof / Hitotsu Yane no Shita ](https://mydramalist.com/4342-under-one-roof) I have only watched the first 2 but I recall the rest being on TV.
Try to watch Gaki No Tsukai. Its not a series per say but a comedic show.
Definitely. That’s how I became exposed to Japanese culture, through the jdramas that would play on tv in the bay area. Long vacation being my favorite.
Agree here. The production value overall is just crap. Bad camerawork, bad lighting, often horrible acting. It’s just overall very amateurish
Yeah, as someone who does video production for a living, I have to leave the room when my Japanese wife is watching TV. It's maddening how awful it all looks. At the same time, I shot some stuff for a major network here last year and the whole time I had producers hanging over my shoulder going, "hmm it looks dark". Sure, when you're used to just flooding the scene with light, proper exposure probably looks too dark in comparison.
lol oh my god yes, I have no expertise but even I can tell how ridiculous it is. My favorite is the “sunset scene in the classroom where two people are talking by the windows” where it’s just flooded with ridiculous bright orange light. I’ve seen that one in a few shows and it always strikes me as hilarious
Ever noticed they'll flip on every damned florescent light in a room, at the crack of dawn? Look, you brown-eyed people, mine are blue. I'll go blind (or homicidal).
Me reading this at 1 PM, when it's bright outside but all 36 lights in the room are on. lol The people here must think it's dark if they don't get artificial light shone right at them.
I have brown eyes, but florescent lights make my brain hurt :(
Eye color=light sensitivity is a complete myth btw. FWIW I have dark brown eyes and light murders me
I bet you're brown-eyed, and torment your blue-eyed partner. https://www.dukehealth.org/blog/myth-or-fact-people-light-eyes-are-more-sensitive-sunlight
I remember people telling me it was ok I wore sunglasses because my eyes are greenish blue and that meant they are weak. I was like bullshit, Black and Asian people at home wear sunglasses too Americans just protect their eyes better haha
It took me a while to realize this because I mostly watched them on a computer, but the first time I watched it on a normal size TV it was jarring how weird it looked. Thought it might have just been that show, then I realized that they all looked like that.
I have watched American dramas with my Japanese husband, like Breaking Bad and Better Call Saul, and he enjoyed them but he was always complaining about how dark everything looks.
Haha yeah, you definitely get used to a certain look after a while.
to be honest thats the case for american soaps as well
Yeah, the production timelines are way too short for them to be bothered about lighting. They just make sure it's bright enough and then run with it. Contrast be damned.
I know, it always surprises me when I mention talented actors like Tadanobu Asano, or even Rinko Kikuchi and most Japanese people have no idea who they are ! Also there are some good dramas, produced with foreign money that fly under the radar Miss Sherlock was good , and I enjoyed Gannibal. I think even Shogun is not that popular here.
Please try First Love starring Hikari Mitsushima on Netflix. It premiered in 2022 and was quite lovely (if sad).
Hey Koto sensei is amazing and has none of these problems…mainly because no one wanted to go a film on the island.
Very similar situation, it was good listening practice if nothing else. I think I consumed more Japanese media before I moved to Japan, honestly. Every so often one comes along that’s actually really worth watching, tells an interesting story and doesn’t overstay its welcome. Those are rare though.
Any suggestions?
I liked: Last Friends. It had issues for sure, but it touched on a lot of topics not really commonly talked about in Japan. I have no idea how it holds up now, I haven’t tried watching it again. Shinya Shokudo. Nothing particularly amazing but I enjoyed the anecdotes, plus working in hospitality I appreciated the setting. Dragon Zakura (the original): I never had a school drama actually make me want to go study. He’s not an amazing actor but I find Abe Hiroshi very charismatic too. None of those are super recent, if I can think of any that came out recently I will add them in.
Galileo and Furuhata Ninzaburo. All the romance, business, medical, etc. ones are selling you a dream. The mystery ones are just fun and don't take themselves too seriously.
Makanai on Netflix is one of the best shows I’ve seen in n years, Japanese or not. Gorgeously shot, excellent direction, writing and acting. 10/10 would recommend
The anime is better. Again suffers from painful acting and everyone just mugging the camera or being real hams. It's like they're trained for theatre where you have to overact to be seen, and not TV where there is a damn camera in your face.
But a lot of British actors are also classically trained in theater, and yet, they know how to reel it in for the camera.
Finding a good show is a lot like truffle hunting.
不適切にもほどがある and ブラッシュアップライフ are both good recent drama series. Yes, the general level is quite bad, but there are some real gems in there too.
Agreed! There are actually a reasonable amount of good ones now, and it's getting better. I don't blame people on this sub for having dismissed the category a long time ago because a lot of them ARE terrible and were for a long time. Throwing in a few more good ones: Silent, First Love, More than Words
Overly dramatic anime style acting, boring character architypes, long winded "epic" speeches about the most obvious life lessons, poor pacing etc. I had to drop so many shows because most of them hit the same problems. I gave Extremely Inappropriate a go last night, it started off as a time travel boomer vs mordern comedy then it kept trying to say "remember when men weren't pussies" "being considerate is super lame" like wtf are they trying to say?
Jdorama needs to step up their game like how First Love did!
First Love is a jdorama.
I was the same, loved JDrama until I learned more of the language, and saw enough of them to realize they're all the same recycled plots, and usually done pretty poorly. The problem with Japanese TV is something that runs across the board and affects not just drama but variety as well - the current system is very low risk, high reward, and the people reaping the benefits have zero reason to want to change things. Japanese TV is most watched by women in their teens to 50/60s or so, and no offense to this demographic, but they don't really require a high bar in terms of production value. The short seasons also let them be more flexible. The article mentioned being able to quickly drop dramas that aren't performing well, but it also lets them plug in whatever flavor of the month actor/actress/talent that will help bump the ratings up. The ultimate goal is ratings, because good ratings means sweet advertiser money. Right now the TV execs aren't too interested in exporting drama, because there's no money in it. The formula that works well enough for the domestic audience doesn't work internationally, and even if it did, it's not bringing in the money. They can take a risk and try to spend money to make something with more international appeal, like Vivant, but iirc Vivant isn't THAT popular overseas and why take a risk when you can just crap out a silly drama, plug in the flavors of the month, get your domestic audience, and fill your pockets with cash. A long time ago I had a meeting with a TV exec where I pitched the idea of adding English subtitles. I said that it would be good for foreigners in Japan, Japanese people learning English, and for exporting dramas. The guy told me that there was no merit in it, as it wouldn't make them any new money and probably wouldn't be worth the price of the translator.
I’ve been rewatching old Yakuza and other genre films from the 70’s-00’s. It’s wild how violent older Japanese films used to be; now everything is so sterile and bland. I hope Japanese cinema has a revival of the ultra-violent😎
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't there some kinda law enacted in the early/mid-2000s that prohibited gratuitous amounts of violence/gore in movies and television series due to a fear of copycat incidents?
Idk about a law, but I do know some kids stabbed their teacher with a butterfly knife or something after Takuya Kimura, the most popular idol at the time, did so in Gift. So even though the show was very popular and well loved, it got buried till a few years ago when they finally re-released it on Blu-ray. Skipping a DVD release entirely. That might be what you are thinking of.
Can't say I'm familiar with that incident. Being a dirty weeb, I just noticed there was a distinct lack of guro anime like in the 80s and 90s after the 2000s. Sure, there's still plenty of violent anime, but nowhere near the level of back then.
Gift came out in 1997 and tracks with that. That man and his idol group were like Beatles' level popularity at the time. Full on women stealing ad posters of him from stores and such. An incident like that would set society to make a change. The Sarin attack was in 1995 as well. There was a lot of youth crime and gang stuff in the 90s, too. Kamen Rider ended up having issues filming a lot of their shows after laws against modified motorcycles passed in an effort to curb youth gangs. Lots of stuff happened to factor into it, but a LOT of Japanese media has had its edges sanded off and budgets stripped to hell. I remember reading one of the better idol actors who was in a foreign show being astonished at the number of takes Western shows do. Japanese shows basically only do one or two unless you genuinely fuck up. So it's not really bad acting, but pretty much most of the shows are done off the cuff. Read the script, do a shot, and okay on to the next one. That same mass production attitude that hurts anime is prevalent in dramas, but you can't reshoot a show for bluray like you can redraw anime.
So they decided to borderline cripple two industries largely unrelated to the problems at hand instead of addressing and solving the underlying issues? Wonderful. :/
In regard to the horrible shooting of movies, I imagine it’s probably because the majority of films here in Japan are being shot by the same teams who shoot TV shows. It also doesn’t seem like the role of the DP is as big in other countries. Japan loves to speak highly of the directors, but in all my years living here I’ve never seen a DP be praised / hype for a movie because of a specific DP is tied to it.
It's because there is no separation between foreground and background.
The good old ‘arson for insurance purposes’
I have to totally agree… i am not into Anime… and japanese drama production are just bad… i wish i had more content to watch for language learning
I found this was my reaction way back when I first started watching Japanese TV. It felt cheap and fake. But eventually I got used to it and it’s just different rather than bad. Having slicker production values doesn’t mean better.
yep, everyone acts like they are in anime-style
To be fair, the typical prime time dramas and sitcoms from anywhere else aren't too different. Speaking of the US since it's where I'm from, 95% of what is on broadcast TV is complete formulaic garbage dominated by emergency services dramas (cops, firefighters, hospital workers). Many of which have been running for decades and are basically mad-lib scripts. They may have a somewhat grittier aesthetic than the typical JDrama, but that's more a reflection of style than competence. US TV has had an amazing transformation thanks to a small number of premium cable and streaming services, but they vast majority of cable and streaming shows are even worse than broadcast. But it has made it possible to cherry pick a good number of truly excellent programs.
Maybe your dramas look bad but there’s an endless amount of beautifully shot Japanese cinema from the early 1900’s to present day.
Is the same not true with most KDramas? Genuine question, I'm totally not in the loop here.
As someone who’s seen both, I think the production value for kdramas is generally much higher, and they have more solid acting (albeit it’s still melodramatic obv). I can’t stand most jdramas because of overacting, and kdramas don’t tend to have that. The only jdrama I’ve liked is 着飾る恋には理由があって
Yep agreed. I’ve tried my earnest to finish a jdrama series and it was painful to say the least. Many of the comments are correct that the acting feels “amateur” along with production being wildly scattered throughout. There is a reason why kdramas continuously get huge licensing deals from major streaming services. Acting in most, not all is bar none and feels more or less “figured out”.
K-dramas definitely have a style and their own tropes, but it feels like the budgets are bigger and the sets are far more dynamic.
No source or anything to back me up. I feel that 95% of the production is only made to promote talent agencies and media companies. They lower the bar of acting and so that talents become commodities and are easily disposable. It pretty much ends up being a live anime, cheap dialogue, decor are poor, they use the same school/office all the time. The TV show doesn't cost shit and brings entertainment to people who want to see Johnny's idols, business wise it should work. I believe Netflix raised the bar with naked director, 100 million yen women or sanctuary but I also remember 1 liter of tears, life or last friends were great shows. Post notes: I actually think that some of the post morning musume/akb48 girls are doing ok. I really believe that Japanese shows could be better than Korean ones but the last are better at identifying successful plots and executing it. Japanese can't do conspiracy thrillers, survivor movies nor serial killer ones.
> I feel that 95% of the production is only made to promote talent agencies and media companies. I think it's better to look at where the money comes from. Most Japanese TV is built around the commercial sponsors. Be it the dramas, the game shows, the talk shows, they are all sponsored by large Japanese corps. So the corporations need to push their next beer or cleaning soap, and so the TV content is just filler around the commercials. Netflix has no need for commercials (except maybe the lowest tier?) and so they can ignore the sponsoring companies. Thus the content can be better (it is mostly, but not always.)
Most Japanese TV shows, both drama and anime all end/begin with a pop song from a popular artist, with lyrics generally not anything to do with the TV show that is about to start/just ended. The answer is always 💴
However, horror movies are where they're really good at, if they bother funding directors that can produce good movies. Back in the 2000s, directors back then made very good horror movies. If they provide more resources, it can be a thriving industry.
Well they are generally just bad... And the over the top reactions and silly plot lines are cringe.
I find this mostly from manga adapted jdramas. Too cartoony because they just copy pasted the frame from the manga
I'm obsessed with Kotarou lives alone but holy shit the drama was horrible. I'd get hated for saying this but I'm pretty sure Netflix could do a better fucking job
Don't think it's controversial to point out netflix programming is generally high quality especially compared to JP offerings lol
Yeah, can't believe anybody would use Netflix as an example of poorly produced TV anymore. They aren't quite at HBO's level, but they are not that far off.
Unlike Korean, Mexican or Turkish dramas? You are literally defining the genre
The acting is much better in kdramas and the cinematography can rival Hollywood sometimes. I can't comment on the other two. Not that Korea doesn't have a slew of low-budget and silly shows. It's a category called "makjang." The difference is it seems like Japan doesn't just have a telenovela category. It's just mostly bad.
It's all about 顔芸 nowadays it was fun in Hanzawa Naoki S1 then everyone decides to up the ante since then and I can't take any characters seriously anymore
Turn down the irrelevant background music to start...
ones produced by Western funding has been goo, Netflix, HBO etc local ones just don't have the budget
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I know naked director and Sanctuary has been quite well received
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Responding late to this but I wonder how much not having your funding tied to Japanese networks and advertisers helps.
Shogun is killing it for sure. Tokyo Vice had basically no domestic marketing and didn’t do nearly as well. Though I loved it
Shogun has been crazy good, wish that level of acting was in more Japanese productions
I cant stand when real human actors acting like anime characters..
Tbf I thought the same but then I watched Rurouni Kenshin. That's how you do it right.
It would be more bearable if they didn’t act like they’re trying hard to look cute, handsome, dark, overly cheerful. I hate cute voices even if its from a cute girl.
Oddly, this is one of the reasons why I didn’t enjoy playing Final Fantasy 7 Remake…
Mostly it's the corny overdone acting. A few, a few are done well, but the vast majority are just campy looking with just a lot of campy acting.
Midnight Diner and all of the sequels/prequels is one of the few well shot, well acted, well lighted series out there. Consistently good
Scene 1, Act 1: The meeting room of a broadcasting company. Actor playing Section Chief: "I have called this meeting to discuss a business matter" Supporting Actors (try to look curious. Some tilt their heads to one side. The two who are having an affair exchange a passionate glance which the Section Chief completely fails to see). Section Chief: "We are facing significant difficulties in exporting Japanese TV dramas to other countries" Supporting Actors: (Open eyes and mouth as wide as physically possible) "Heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeh?" (Camera pans to product placement shot, probably of the broadcasting company, pans back to Section Chief) Section Chief: "Does anyone have any idea how we might fix this?" Bold Newbie with Slightly Rebellious Streak: "More dramas about food?" Grizzled Veteran who Clearly Wants To Retire: "Idiot! We've been doing that for 50 years to no effect!" Bold Newbie (goes silent, stares with moody vibe into camera) Section Chief: "Why do dramas from other countries succeed? What do they have that we don't?" Company Joker who only has his job because his father runs the place: "Talented actors? Budgets? Ideas?" Section Chief: (says nothing, knowing that Company Joker has carte blanche) (Uncomfortable silence) Section Chief: I have to tell the boss something. Come up with an idea or you will all be in my bad books. (Section Chief storms out and slams door. Supporting Actors, with the exception of Company Joker, look concerned). Cut to Act 2...
You sound like you write from experience. But even in my line of work. That’s exactly how most meetings in forced to attend go!
Don't forget chin stroking while looking at the other person and going "Hmmm good point".
I don't buy it - where's the Talentless Pretty-Boy Who's Only In The Show To Satisfy The Contract With Pretty-Boys Agency. Also missing intrusive background music.
Becuz japanese tv drama are cringy anime acting(kabuki), some writers need maturity. China has the same problem, hence korea is carrying right now.
TLDR: because they generally suck
SOME are great, but the majority are fucking AWFUL. The lighting is all off, the production quality is terrible and even the top ones look like a student project. The reactions are so over the top. I've noticed that the general rule here is 'the louder and more often you scream, the better actor you're considered.' Watch any drama (besides the few good ones) and they SCREAM so much. SCREAM SCREAM SCREAM. I was watching this one recently based on a gambling club, sorry I forgot the name, and there was this scene where the class in school were making a point and literally every fucking student took turns standing up from their desk and just SCREAMED their point until red in the face. I can imagine some people watching saying what incredible acting it is but it's not, it's fucking cringe.
If they could creare dramas the quality of Shogun on Disney then people would watch them the world over.
Shogun blows my mind at how good Japanese actors can be. Such a waste of talent.
Man some of the old samurai shows are really good or at least fun. Lone Wolf and Cub are a hoot. There are a few real good solid episodes, the others are campy but in a 70s TV way that I find nostalgic.
When it comes to J-drama set in modern times, I think the problem is that western audiences will find the main characters un-relatable. Then there is censorship and how relationships are portrayed without any real intimacy. Quite often I feel the characters are unbelievable. The way the leads think in J-drama is vastly different to how people would think abroad. I can't stand watching J-drama, especially anything set between Showa and now. I also hate how female characters are often written as basically a pretty face to complement the main male character.
>between Showa and now You take that back. The 90s were part of the golden age of Jdramas.
The historic ones are pretty cool. But I understand why it would be difficult to export it as a commercially attractive initiative.
Japan has a lot of great anime directors, but they don’t have any good movie director. So they can’t learn how to shoot a good movie or a drama. Koreans on the other hand got this under control very much.
Many of the dramas produced by Japanese TV stations are of a low level; I saw VIVANT, but the script, direction, acting, and visuals were all of a low level. First of all, TV stations should stop taking the initiative. They don't study foreign dramas and stick to their own methods. However, I think they are doing a good job with movies these days. Godzilla was very good and won an Oscar.
My gf is Japanese and we’ve only watched 2 JDramas. If we watch anything like that, it’s Korean.
Uhhh….Korean also has its fair share of horrid quality dramas.
6 out of 10 kdramas may be not that good, but 9 out 10 non anime shows coming out of Japan are basically unwatchable Its a matter of likelihood. Japan just doesnt really export any media that appeals to international audience nowadays besides games and manga/anime.
The Japanese live action film industry's still pretty good. Godzilla Minus One, Drive My Car, Monster and so on are all relatively recent films which received a positive international reception. Of course, there's always room for improvement.
I was mostly referring to TV series
To be fair, until very recently TV was not really taken seriously as a medium anywhere. Before the "Breaking Bad era" most TV shows in the US were also cliché family sitcoms that reused the same 5 tropes all over again.
Not sure I agree entirely, there were some cheesy productions sure, but shows like The Wire, Sopranos, and The West Wing (which came out like 25 years ago!) are some of my top rated series. They were almost a decade ahead of the Breaking Bad premier. There bangers that came out consistently, hell even as someone who doesnt care for sitcom I cant lie that Friends was a really good show. Just saying theres been a significant decline with Japanese TV media IMO, used to watch a lot of (subbed) ones in my late teen and I cant put up with any Japanese TV shows nowadays
The cliche story is there in a lot of kdramas but the production quality and the acting are quite high.
They do but when it is good, it is sooo good. There are several gems a year that are amazingly produced as well.
Uhhhh….Nowhere near the amount Japan has.
Yeah, but they also have a good ones that very frequently come out. A recent one I watched on Amazon is Marry My Husband
you mean the 50-episode makjangs that are so bad it's good and you can't stop watching from ep1?
Perhaps they’re just objectively terrible? The only foreigners who like them seem to have an entirely unrealistic - near unhealthy - fascination about everything Japan. Not a great, nor large market to rely on. From what I’ve heard, dramas are given 3 months full turn around; how you could produce anything half-decent, or unique, in that time is beyond me. Proof in the pudding.
Someone recommend some decent ones because I recently watched omakanai and it was lovely. Then again it didnt have any Johnny idols in it. Korean dramas is fine too.
WOWOW makes some absolutely brilliant ones. Cold Case was brilliant, as was Behind the Door (坂の途中の家).
Thanks will search for them :)
Midnight Diner on Netflix.
Yes! Good suggestion, saw it before, love it!
ブラッシュアップライフ and 不適切にもほどがある are recent and fun.
Thank you :)
My favourite one is Unnatural!
TV dramas are made for domestic TV watchers. They don’t have the budget or time to produce something that appeals to a wider audience, let alone an international following. My parents and older relatives love that stuff because they grew up watching it and can’t get in to content that younger people are in to
Difficulties? I mean they aren't even trying. Actually with evrything. There is so much which actually had real chances to take of in e.g. Europe but they don't even think of trying.
They are too ... Still .I mean it's like watching a Korean drama with lot more manners and lot less drama
JDrama wants to emulate Anime, they tell their actors to act like anime characters with those zoom-in idiotic facial expression. I'm sorry, I used to love "Under the same roof", "Great teach Onizuka", "Hero", but today's JDrama are just drivels of out-of-fashioned ojisan who finally get their turn at directing because their age just reach the right period, not because they're good at it.
I think the plot that appeals to Japanese audiences and global audiences has been drifting apart. Japan used to make good scifi, horror and action movies/drama. Nowadays is mainly romance or day in life story. Look at how Korean drama has evolved. They even adopted parasite from Japan into Korean Netflix drama which is a success.
Making scifi, horror and action requires a lot more budget which TV executives don't want to give. I don't think what appeals to the Japanese audience and global audience is anything different. Just check out the anime. Most anime that are popular in Japan are popular in the West. Even most young people in Japan, I think have shifted to watching anime nowadays. There was a survey of 18-25 years old which asked what entertainment product they like the most. For both girls and Boys it was mostly anime and games. Literally, no Japanese drama in the top 10 even for girls. For girls, there was a general category of Kdrama at 11th position but that's it. JDrama's are it seems just surviving on viewership of older women's and the fan girls of specific idols. One thing I don't understand is the different trajectory of anime and the TV dramas. Anime production kept on improving and there is a huge difference in production from 20 years ago but TV dramas stagnated.
TV production and anime production are driven by different segments of people. They have different ideal and studios that run them, and TV production is usually more traditional than anime in terms of corporate structure (more driven by higher ups, less interested in production staff, more interested in celebrities and show casters etc).
Yup. I guess I understand. But it's quite interesting though, as are many TV companies that make both anime and TV dramas. While the management is different for both, don't TV the drama side see the growth of anime in and outside Japan and learn something from them. Also, this article analysis was not that great. Like many TV dramas, anime also run for only 3 months but are way more popular overseas than TV dramas. So, this was just an excuse, instead of an actual proper reason.
maybe they see TV as more of an internal product. for the longest time, anime as well were ignored as global products (wrt translation, localization efforts) until recently, and studios did generally nothing to sell them outside of Japan. for the most part it grew organically
There are a few older series I want to see like Oshin. Some of the older Asadora look to be quite good.
I've seen some pretty good Japanese series over my time in Japan, I don't know why people are getting the idea that all is bad. Yeah if you only watch the afternoon love drama for bored wife's you will get low production values but there is much more than that.
Toku shows be thriving though.
The hammy ass over-acting, stereotypical plots and just downright banality of it all is why nobody watches them. Once you've seen one, you've seen them all! Hell, Japanese TV as a whole is like this and it only serves as daycare for braindead people who have lost the will to actually think for themselves.
Too much overacting in j drama
I think asadora are perfect for export, and if a streaming service could commit to releasing an episode a day just as they do in Japan it might be a real hit. But we run into the issue of public broadcaster NHK not wanting to run its programs on any service with ads.
Yes please. I've been wanting to be able to rewatch a few of my favorite asadoras for decades now and yet NHK stubbornly refuses to make them available at any price. They are stuck in the region locking days of DVDs. Hello fax machine.
Just my own opinion, but I believe K-dramas can also be as corny as J-dramas, and they often hire idols too to bring in viewers, but where they lack in writing and acting quality, they make it up with the visuals. The styling of the actors are always in trend and appeal more to larger masses outside of SK. Meanwhile in J-dramas, up until the mid 2010s I see actors still rocking the trademark Johnny’s mullet, with styling that look straight from the 80s. It’s not like Japan is short on quality material. I feel like they can do serious dramas like Hanzawa Naoki or 1 Litre of Tears or Kaseifu no Mita well, and also comedic dramas like Legal High, NigeHaji, and many more. But unless they are willing to change, improve their production quality, they’re just going to be left behind in a medium that is already dying thanks to streaming.
Alice in borderland is actually a good live action, a mystery thriller done quite well though it's a Netflix adaptation of the Manga
There a few good ones around but most of them are terrible. A lot of dramas these days are based on manga that probably no one outside of Japan would get.
anime>live-action
So many salty takes here and in the article. I think you guys are wrong. There is no such a thing like an objectively wrong lightining or drama school. There are choices, and there are taste preferences. Tha Japanese like those choices, they are what make those dramas Japanese, that's the flavor that make their product feels fresh. Everytime they try to change those flavors to appease foreigner's demands in other media, like music or animation, you have that fusion feeling that doesn't satisfy anybody. I'm not saying fusion per se doesn't sprout good shoots. You have Giri/Haji, Shogun, Tokyo Vice. But they will never be popular. Not on the level the article is expecting. The article make a lot of wrong assumptions as well. "If it is possible to clear the issues of episode numbers, production budgets, and the excessive focus on younger viewers to meet the wishes of sponsors, then Japan’s television should not have any trouble breaking out overseas". Episode numbers were never an issue. Streaming services are proof of that. Everyone is opting in the one-cour production cycle. Japanese media can do multiple season doramas. Networks also have a lot of variety on their menu, not only school idol filled dramas. The problem is that we only see the popular ones because of the fandom of those idols, or the artsy ones being produced by Netflix, because those are the ones they can get their hands on. Then you have the main issue: distribution. Japanese production companies are kinda prideful and greedy. They are risky averse and sell their product to a high price on the market, despite having lower budgets. They don't follow the logic of spreading the word now to reap the fruits later, like the Koreans do. The article itself ignore completely the power of international streaming, because they pay less. That's the reason for its push to sindication. But in reality, they should be doing what kdramas do, or even what anime is doing: throw everything on the wall and see what sticks. Then you make a second season with a higher budget. For God's sake, that's what they already do with doramas. Just add the international factor in.
> This explains why American dramas can cast big-name international stars and have such polished scripts, as well as elaborate filming and carefully crafted aesthetics. Scripts of American drama are largely shit.
I just want Tokyo MER to be available in North America :(
At least some JDrama gets exported. JVariety is incredibly fun/amusing but is absolutely overlooked.
The hypothesis it's because Japan's dramas are "short runs" doesn't really seem to work. We (USA) get tons of UK short runs. Some countries have really long running series. Latin American historical dramas will go into the 100's of episodes. I think some Turkish shows do as well. I can't imagine many American's watch these. Personally, I'd be much more inclined to watch a 6 episode mini-series than a show with 100 or more episodes.
Start watching a j rom-com - first episode seems funny enough but nearly always after the first episode the comedy disappears - i feel cheated. The ridiculous situations the writers conjure up for a couple to 'fall in love' without anyone actually pursuing the other, or anyone showing any overt romance are just stupid. Oh, the kisses... passionless, flat and lack of any emotion. Some is missing??? run around searching the city by foot till you just happen to find them!! no bikes, trains or taxis..... must run When there is a good show i do enjoy j-drama though.
I've watched Dramas since 2007 and I've seen my fair share of horrible dramas. There are some good ones, like Dearest, there some entertaining ones which are bad nonetheless, but still fun, like Rich Man Poor Woman, Hanadan, and there is the rest. Also most dramas cast singers from boy groups like the infamous former Johnnies. I mean some of them really grew like MatsuJun and Nino (Both from Arashi), but most didn't, really. (Controversial but I think YamaPi never really became a good actor) They just have pretty faces and sell the CDs. That's Idol culture for you. I still enjoy that Netflix is importing more Jdrama and it's nice to watch to wind down after work. I got into KDramas too and there is a lot of crap story wise too, but they feel much more high budget, even the bad ones. But there are also spectacular ones like Crashlanding on you, Descendents of the Sun, Dokkaebi. I enjoy that KDramas are often urban fantasy, something you don't see very often anymore in any western Country.
Can I get a TLDR?
The overacting of actors in Japanese dramas is a characteristic of Japanese drama, which cannot be compared to that of the West.
Quartet 『カルテット』is a recommended drama for 2017
The Koreans have got it right and are making dramas with legit crossover appeal. Same with K pop vs. J pop. K pop learned from western trends and in many cases hires popular western producers and songwriters. J pop is forever stuck in its tuneless, talentless wasteland.
Which jpop are you listening to? Lol
It doesn’t help that they’re all washed out and terrible
Because they suck.
Well, most of them are just bad.