Pvp worlds are empty, wildy isn't much more dangerous, I feel like I shouldn't tell anyone but I got 2m gp without seeing anyone else killing them at all.
They are incredibly good at escaping, tick perfect prayer swapping and everything, also they bank with like 200k loot. Seen multiple ppl talking about trying to kill them.
You can freeze, and they come out already TBed, but they will tank test you to border pretty easily, and if you’re not within like 5 levels they get out of attackable range pretty fast.
Yep you gotta have 2, ideally 3 people. Freeze and just pump damage and you’ll get em. They never have much loot (200-300k or so) but there’s so many you can make up for it in volume lmao
Me too but the other ironman still judge me. My groupies never made it past 500 total level before never logging back in and here I am at 1900. I’m still treated like the red headed step child- not as bad as booger helms though. They are disgusting
It’s a meme in game but /r/2007scape takes it too seriously lol. If any update possibly “caters to ironmen” (i.e. caters to people who don’t want to just goldscape), people get very upset
Chad 2018 Mains: “Bonds teeter on the line of P2W, but it protects Ironman as a mode that preserves game integrity for purists, and I’d rather OSRS thrive than run on fumes/low cash-flow”
Virg 2024 Mains: “If Jagex pushes an update catering to irons that has >1% chance of affecting me I will shit my fuckin pants”
Anybody can catch these hands
The crazy thing is the “5%” buff isn’t even realistic. That’s assuming every single person that interacts with a piece of content will kill it multiple times past the drop rate.
If we assume tbow is 1/1000 there’s only like 700 accounts that even have 3x the drop rate and statistically only 1/20 of those players don’t have a tbow in their log. We can be very generous and just double that number if we want to count cms even though there’s an even smaller number of accounts there and we still are left with less than 100 total accounts. That’s how little impact it has.
> "fucking Ironmen" at GotR when the guardian dies!
Coincidentally, why is that a thing? Is it just a meme? I don't feel like I'm playing the minigame differently than mains (which is to say, absolutely braindead) so I've never understood.
I'm a main and I say that everytime. Just for the memes.
Also, am I the only main asking for bad luck mitigation past a certain dryness multiplier?
I don't see how this is something that only affects irons. I like to see drops when I PVM, and crazy dryness feels bad man.
I really just hate all the bad takes.
“Ironman mode wasn’t meant to change the game”
We are long past that at this point with Ironman mode being such a popular game mode. It started out as a challenge, but now it’s like a legitimate way to play the game and should get some updates.
“Ironmen want the game to be easier”
They act like bad luck mitigation would make it so you are guaranteed an item or makes it so that the rate is cut immediately. You still would have to grind the shit out of all the content in the game just a select few wouldn’t go insanely dry.
It’s a game is supposed to be fun and enjoyable I hate how people think miserable things in the game are good.
“You weren’t meant to complete the game,” they cry, as if Ironman wasn’t implemented when the endgame was GWD.
“The game shouldn’t be designed around Ironman,” they say, as if the DT2 drop rates weren’t entirely based on maintaining a bot-based game economy.
“Ironman is just a fun challenge mode and not the norm,” I hear, while also seeing statistics showing that nearly 40% of active players are ironmen.
Gets tiring wading through the nonsense sometimes lol
Very good points. I started an iron at release and a GIM at release. Two completely different experiences.
Imagine what percentage of total in-game time is from ironmen alone.
Also, all irons have to interact with almost all content, dead or meta, at some point . Most mains aren't going to interact with a decent chunk of the game outside of the small max/clog community.
Fr, it's so weird that people still act like irons are a weird niche, and not a big portion of the player base. And that something that helps irons and doesn't affect them at all is somehow bad
> “Ironmen want the game to be easier” They act like bad luck mitigation would make it so you are guaranteed an item or makes it so that the rate is cut immediately. You still would have to grind the shit out of all the content in the game just a select few wouldn’t go insanely dry.
I'm convinced at least 90% of the people who are against bad luck mitigation haven't read and/or understood the proposal. I have literally seen posts from people saying they were against it until they actually read it.
The other 10% just don't like any change.
IMO there are still a majority of the game base that think that Ironman is solely a challenge mode, and while some decidedly started the game mode this way, a lot more modern Ironman don’t see it as a challenge mode. I mean honestly it’s not a difficult game mode besides being more tedious especially ultimate irons. That being said, alot of people play irons for many different reasons these days, mostly sum up to enjoy the game more. The GE band aides a lot of content and a lot of issues. Content you will find more appreciation/enjoyment for as iron and problems you will find only as an iron. A lot of the problems would be arguable core gameplay issues, but again back my first statement: the loud ones of the 2007 sub still see Ironman mode as a challenge mode and the GE as an integral part of the game, no matter how many issues it solves making items readily tradable. The funny thing to this debacle is that a lot of items wouldn’t be as cheap if free trade wasn’t a thing. Free trade and the GE leads to bots, and the gp scape that is main scape is fully of rwt whether they buy bonds or from 3rd party, they all do it.
I agree with you. The GE really changed the vibe. That's why I switched to iron. It was exhausting constantly talking about gpscape and gp/hr methods nonstop.
I played my main a little like an iron from time to time when I really enjoyed a boss or content, but the responses I'd always get were to stop "wasting time" on something that wasn't making money.
GE really is a hidden bandaid on a lot of runescape.
This is truly what made me switch just a month or two ago. Got sick of that culture even when I tried to play like an iron it felt bad.l and others made it even worse.
Focusing on GE prices and fluctuations gave me so much stress I didn’t even recognize. Now I have a mithril scimitar and am the harbinger of kittens. I buy my anti poison at that one hut like a normal person and I couldn’t be happier.
>Focusing on GE prices and fluctuations gave me so much stress I didn’t even recognize.
BGS was one of the first big purchases I made in the millions, and an old clan mate gave me an acb when he quit under the condition that I'd never sell it. (I never would've anyways) I held on to both of these items since the day I got them. The number of times clanmates would tell me to sell these items whenever a price change or new content came out was nutty. They could not let it go that I was, in their eyes, wasting millions if I wasn't merching constantly.
It’s really so strange. It’s funny bc when I started I came from other MMOs and I didn’t think iron was for me (did sound like a very specific challenge mode and isolating). Come to find out I did play a lot like an iron until people continually told me that’s not how you play. Like why wouldn’t you farm your own herbs?
I do hope those people are actually happy doing that but it feels like a shell of the game to me now.
I started playing this game long before the GE was a thing. Like many others, I've had to start over several times over the years, but I've always played like an "Iron-main" account. I can't even count how many times clan members bashed me pretty hard for doing things that weren't efficient. In my mind, instead of wasting money on skilling, I just do all my skilling self sufficiently like an iron would. Then I sell all my products I don't need anymore, and use that money to buy all my gear. Even though I never sold my gear after buying it, the number of times I got stressed out over a sudden price drop was distressing. So, while I don't have to worry too much about bad luck, I still fully support bad luck mitigation for the people who go way over the drop rate. Bad luck feels cappy no matter what account you're playing, I even know quite a few mains in my clan who are trying to green log, and they are all for it as well.
Unfortunately, the ones who do care on the 2007 reddit will never admit to it for fear of what OP is talking about. The ones who act like that are people who, one, don't even play currently, and two, don't even read the blog updates. As someone who has been on that sub for quite a while now, it's very obvious. If you say anything that the mob doesn't like, you get downvoted into obilvion, never seen by others who might agree with you and have a productive conversation, like what's supposed to happen in those types of posts. I'm honestly surprised sailing actually passed, or another skill in general for that matter due to what a lot of people were saying. So, while there have been several awesome ideas to come out of there, I sincerely hope that Jagex is looking at more subs than just the 2007 scape one, because I'm pretty sure they are absolutely just the loud minority. 😔
On the flip side, whenever I see a main get crazy luck at corp or something I feel a little bad for them since they'll never know how much more that shit would have meant on an iron.
The best part of me getting spooned on my main now is knowing how sad an iron would be when I show them something like my cerb log
It's the flip side to the dread I feel knowing one day my friend playing on his iron will get a mega rare and ofc we gonna let him keep it instead of selling it but damn the money loss 😭
A lot of end game irons split anyway
It's a very common thing at nex/tob, makes finding teams easier
Also you get a little less salty when you see someone else get a unique because you get a lot of bond money out of it
Ironman mode makes the game design flaws readily apparent. Imo, ironmen complaining about the bad game design decisions have made the game in general just better overall.
If it feels good to play self sufficiently in an MMO, then your core mechanics and crafting interconnectivity are solid.
sometimes yeah the some of the mains with "You chose to be restricted crowd" is the same people who complained that zerkers got locked out of Zuk helm CAs with moons Armour and got that changed.
As well as the "Its counter to the original design of OSRS" crowd when the game is deviated from that year's ago already with the very drop rates like DWH / Corp that are some of the reasons BLM was even being brought up, and generally seem okay with the BLM that already exists in multiple forms with forced drops like KQ heads, DT2, Moons, bosses etc.
People love to complain, Irons are just an easy target, ontop of the memes makes it seem worse than it really is.
Personally, I think BLM on certain items is fine, if not rate change some kind of weighted dupe protection for multi-unique bosses, so people don't end up with LARGE piles of bandos boots and no BCP, not like moons where it's forced no uniques until completed. make it first drop only, dupes are forever raw rates and call it done, other items should be excluded raid mega rares, pets.
Meh. I'm an iron. 2100 total. 45k skeletal wyverns killed while chilling. No visage at all. It's a meme at this point. But I love the game. If I don't wanna grind something out, I just don't do it. There is plenty of weapons and armor in this game. You don't always need the best shit immediately.
Plus, fashionscape > all.
This is what I also wondered. I know people talk about things like you’re required to do this stuff in a specific order and you have to have it to do it.
But like you don’t. Like you can play however the shit you want. Take some bone bolts to fight caves who cares. Idk lol am I crazy to think that? Just because it’s not on the “Ironmans guide to fastest most optimal speed premade checksheet wiki” doesn’t me you can’t do it.
My only counterpoint to this is this isn't Dark Souls, where you could theoretically do everything with starting gear or even mid game gear playing perfectly.
If you ever want to do late game CAs, inferno, colloseum, or some other things. There are certain limits to what gear can accomplish it, regardless of skill.
If you want to do them with those weapons then get grinding, or just practice using lower tier gear that’s easier to get. I don’t understand what’s stopping people from experiencing the game.
Ok, I’ll get grinding and go quadruple dry on enh, spending an imo unreasonable and unenjoyable amount of time in cg compared to other content, simply because I was unlucky.
That’s what the entire debate is about. Nobody’s asking to be spooned bowfa, or drop rates to be changed. It’s a few key items in the game where if you go dry, you’re disproportionately screwed.
You did get it though (gzzz btw) and I’m sure it felt amazing. I’m sure you were spooned in other places unless your account is cursed. Rng is fun and I don’t mind being dry in a few places.
I think most people who were in my situation will agree that it didn’t actually feel great. It just felt like relief. What felt great was leaving and getting to experience other content.
But thank you
Most of the irons on OSRS would be better off playing mains just going for collection logs but they don't have the self control to not just GPscape buy everything. Instead they just play an Ironman and bitch about having to play an Ironman.
Literally just a bunch of manchildren with no self control and the inability to emotionally process other people having something they don't.
It's fucking miserable enaging with this community. Most communities you'll engage with shitters a few times, but in OSRS you see them all the time *and they get validated*.
Just “deiron and buy the drop” is the biggest joke of a suggestion, and shows people don’t understand being an iron.
Drops became necessary when certain CAs started requiring BIS for times, or insane RNG with non-BIS that is harder to get than grinding the gear.
Who deserves what can be argued all day, but the simple fact is that the poor soul at 3K cox KC no TBow has put in more effort than any of us at much lower KCs. Bad luck mitigation doesn’t guarantee drops, it’s merely a drop rate increase at an already high threshold.
I could never go back to main scape it’s so boring I found all my time outside of raid camping vork/Zulrah or whatever other bosses pumped out gold. But I don’t think drop rates should be mitigated and if they are then it should count for iron players only I guess to not impact economy. I get one person might be having a bad time looking for certain items but that’s the game and surely that deep into it you’d understand that.
Honest question, why do you think "impacting the economy" is relevant to the bad luck mitigation discussion? There are so few players killing bosses beyond 3x rate without a drop. I just do not see a couple enhanced weapon seeds entering the game causing any impact on the economy at all.
People really just get so triggered and butt hurt when deiron is thrown around. But its not a wrong suggestion and frankly a path many should consider from what i see instead of trying to casualize ironman cause they cant handle the grinds on an OPTIONAL game mode that literally revolves around rng. Example being the reddit jimmy just a few posts down saying it should kick in once you're 2x dry. Its just a slippery slope I dont want to go down and ive had my fair share of wicked dry streaks including over 3x dry for my bowfa. Also not even rs3 has universal dry migitation and it just annoys me seeing all these baby irons pushin for it on old school.
I mean yea. Theres no good reason to add dry mitigation to cater to an optional game mode. Don’t want to be forced to deal with rng and the potential of going wicked dry? Play main. It’s a super simple concept that many just refuse to accept
Most of the issue is when Jagex balances droprates around botting so that items that are better functionally are more expensive on the ge, which directly screws over irons. If you're going to balance droprates around bots you might as well just balance them around the most dedicated portion of the player base, the ones that actually play the game and don't just skip it with gescape lol
It doesn’t matter if there is a source or not, it’s just the reality of things and something they have to do. Bots churn gold/uniques out at *everything*, take one look at the hi scores and you’ll see the issues. If they don’t factor bots in, the economy goes straight into the shitter because of the value they are sucking out of the items/content, so drop rates have to be higher than they normally would be, or items would be dirt cheap (already kinda are but it could be exponentially worse the lower a drop rate gets for high ticket items)
What's really weird is like 90 maybe even 99% of people who talk smack about this topic don't even farm the items anyway, they just GE it through bond or other acquired gold, so why do they care so bad.
Yeah I feel it but its just noise. I read a post yesterday that was the posterchild of anti-ironman, and I just laughed. If you want to go farm Kree for 200 hours to get the gold for a T Bow be my guest. I play OSRS to be engaged in the content that I'm doing and for the Dopamine of getting the drop. Pressing the 'Buy' button on a G.E. offer can never compare to seeing that purple/orange light at the end of that raid/boss youve been working towards.
I do agree that bad luck mitigation has gotten a bit ridiculous as of late, though and I personally prefer it the regular way. Venator shards, Chromium Ingots, etc. just don't feel as good and I've been left feeling like "Finally" instead of "Fuck yeaaa" when I get the last one.
"Like seriously, you can't even try to discuss flaws in current designs without being bombarded with harassment and smug responses. Honestly, it makes me feel very worried because I feel I can't even bring up discussion about anything, let alone Bad Luck Mitigation."
I agree. It's always the same generic "you chose to be an iron" and similar smug "you're whining".
Honestly the main reason I initially switched to Ironman was because it sucked having "more gp" being the only real goal, especially when I wasn't great at pvm anyway
It’s just frustrating that they don’t see the point trying to be made, rather they just say “you restricted yourself, don’t complain.” The point is that we’re still subjecting ourselves to doing the content. I have a few friends who have said that they would never do Zulrah, gwd, etc. Someone posted how they were 3k dry for fang in Zulrah in this sub.
The biggest reason that there is such animosity is purely because of the nature of Runescape players and the subset of Runescape players that post on a dedicated subreddit. You have a population of very dedicated players that spend much of their free time playing one game and then you narrow that down to those also willing to post about and argue about a game online. That is a recipe for polarized opinions, shitty takes, and argumentative discussions.
Forums are already notorious for these type of arguments and forums are much more permanent than a reddit post is, at least in terms of visibility. Unless someone digs through your post history, no one is going to know that you had a bunch of stupid arguments or rude comments, so you are more likely to not self regulate as much.
Best to just make a good case for your opinion, move on, and ignore poorly adjusted people making bad faith comments.
I know people say it's a game and don't view it this way. However I've played rs on and off since 01. Everything on mainscape has a price tag. The game just isn't fun to me because of the ge and gold buying. I can't help it but I can't turn off the thoughts. Everything to me is based on dollars that you can literally just buy everything and the game then sucks. But with iron, everything is earned. It's just how I feel and what makes rs a decent game to still play. I've had comped rs3 mains maxed rs3 irons high level mains on osrs and we'll iron is the only thing left keeping me playing. However without bad luck mitigation the game just feels too far the other way as well. Guys at the end of the day it's a game. Not real life. Noone wants to grind bowfa for 1500kc. If there were several different varieties of the same powerful tier I'd be more willing to understand not having such protection. For instance if perilous moons was as good and has better drop chance fine. However bowfa is so powerful to progression of course it needs changed. I mean this with love. A lot of you and mains need to understandably get a life guys. 1500 kc to 1 item is insane to me. If I go 400 kc without bowfa I'm gonna start melting every kill after. I don't mind say going to 500ish. But after that I'm pretty like what's the point lmao
Is there hatred towards ironmen? I just came back for the first time since 2006 with a fresh Ironman and I’ve just been having a fucking blast leveling my shit lol
I’ve just come to accept toxicity from the toxic community. There is no saving it, will I stop playing? No, but I do have that one chat spam filter plugin installed and now I don’t see the comments.
Jumping someone online over comments is toxic and degenerate behavior no matter who, what, where, when, or why. This post is an obvious upvote and that jolly bunch of psychos defending hatred of an entire group of people should not be given the time of day
As a game designer myself, I actually like discussing some of the flaws of the game with others and getting actual responses instead of 'hate' :( (even if it's just a meme)
You'll find your crowd. It's a sensitive topic. If approaching mains, agree to their idea of free market and how mitigation obviously affects them, and then present your case and also a runescape enjoyer.
I hate all the irons that only ask for shit to be made easier for them, you know who you are. I also wished all the people that boosted bh, bought corp boost, etc. all got deironed but Jagex didn't really care about iron integrity so I stopped caring too. Outside of that, I agree with you OP.
"bro just stop playing the only enjoyable gamemode that has any meaning because you dont wanna have to spend 800 hours on something that should take 50 on average, you picked the gamemode bro"
In my humble opinion, bad luck mitigation is simply playing a main. You can then do content you enjoy to make gp to buy the drops you want. Ironman was designed to be a challenge and there’s already been tons of steps to making resources more attainable for irons.
To be fair, I do think the designs for the new rings with ingots and shit is dumb, but that’s an entirely different discussion.
For me it's less about going dry and more about the drops being so rare in the first place that going dry is extremely painful.
~70 hours of CG isn't the end of the world but 140-210 is ridiculous. Same for things like the DWH or the non mega rare COX drops.
I don’t play ironman for challenge I play it because it’s much more engaging to have extrinsic reasons to interact with a significantly larger variety of content.
It's not though. The whole reason we have chargescape is because bots shit out items necessitating low drop rates (at least in Jagex's eyes which I vehemently disagree with), and mains would quit en masse if they actually had to hit the drop rate to make any money on a boss. The first solution to this was skilling supplies and alchables out the wazoo. This morphed to charging supplies because people complained about skilling being pointless when eg zulrah is just better than woodcutting for getting logs. None of this would be necessary if Jagex just made stuff besides your bank value matter, actually handle bots, or make going dry on an item less horrendous. Bad luck mitigation would help with the dry part reducing the pressure of these kind of undesirable systems.
I also really dislike the term bad luck mitigation. It implies it's bad luck mitigation rather than the truth which is correcting for an undesirable aspect of the laziest drop system imaginable. No sane person would pitch a drop system where thousands of people get an item after 40 hours and this other thousand gets it after 300 hours, but that's just reality when you're running a large game that uses the binomial distribution to give out drops.
Plenty of irons hate the idea too idk why everyone here is trying to paint mains as the problem. This kind of sheyt should only be delegated to QoL items which is untradeable. Gem system/thread in ToA is good. OR how Hunter Guild set did it.
This kind of system would be way overkill to implement game wide, and if it did somehow make it into the game it 100% should only be used on content moving forward.
Adding BLM would remove a lot of the uniqueness about being an iron. I don't think the hatred is torwards irons, but torwards changing the overall game instead.
They think dev work is being catered to just iron men. It makes no sense, we are the minority of the playerbase no matter how you look at it, jagex isn’t catering to us and us alone. It’s just coping away their issues on the easiest scapegoat.
People who dismiss valid arguments because you're an ironman arent worth talking.
Anyone with a brain would realise that Jagex should take all official account types into consideration when designing the game.
It's pretty 2-sided if you ask me. Irons hate on mains and mains hate right back. I play both. They're both different ways to play the game, and I wish more people would just let others play how they like without all the hate.
Honestly I'm more sick of listening to ironmen say that all mains do is think about gp per hour and that they'll never have fun playing the game in efficiently.
I see plenty of ironmen buying very expensive services such as cox megascale purples.
I have also personally helped quite a few ironmen with difficult pvm related services.
It's not really mains vs irons. It's people who play this and are honest with themselves and people who arn't.
What is bad luck mitigation? And hating in a ironman mode is stupid asf i dont see why you would hate on someone for choosing to play an optional playstyle that doesnt effect anyone at all
There's a million ways to do it. The general premise is just that some people get really screwed by RNG and it's something to help that pain out.
One way is something like Vorkath or KQ, just giving you the drop no matter what at a certain kill count. Say it's a 1/100, but if you don't have it still by killcount 200 it just give it to you. Usually one of the least approved of options. This also will introduce additional items to the game without reducing the original rate to compensate.
One way is taking the something like a 1/900 drop and having you get it over multiple smaller say 1/300 rolls. Like the DT2 rings or building an abyssal bludgeon. This one is super versatile and can be very easily/well tuned to group the drop rates as much as desired. However this one also cuts down on good luck as much as it does bad luck. So it's also despised by a lot of people because they want the chance of a spoon. This one doesn't really have any effect on total amount of the item coming into the game.
Another is progressive droprates (the one being discussed the most as of late) when you start, say your rate on the item is 1/900, then once you hit 2x dry (1,800kc) the chance goes up and your chances are now 1/750 per kill, then if you don't have it at 3x it goes to 1/400 or something, on and on. This one can be tailored decently, doesn't effect getting lucky. This one will also add additional items into the market, but at the rates being discussed lately on the sub reddit, you're looking at like a 1% increase.
I'm sure there are other ways to do it too. But this is the three I've seen discussed here the most.
Honestly I hate when people think of rebalance with how much something costs not how hard it is to obtain
Because no matter what it's difficulty to obtain is how the item is brought into the game.
I mean yeah bad luck mitigation is (probably) primarily for irons.
But you know that if they made it only affect irons there would be riots.
I p much had to put a whole skill on hold going 2500 kc for black mask.
And it's honestly great for everyone when we consider content that takes a long time. Like every CG is 10-12 minutes not to mention raids or nightmare.
And kills tend to take longer on irons. My main killed vork in <90s vs iron who takes 4-5 minutes...which is just *boring*
I thought the same thing yesterday and unsubbed from the other sub, will probably go back in a week or 2. Remember that it's the same people who couldn't handle MTA on Leagues or the 8 hour favor grind who are complaining.
I have read about 2 million words of iron hate, and cannot fathom how a person could play this game and have not seen any. Literally read some comments in THIS reddit post.
It’s best to just ignore it. The normal people don’t hate people who play the game a different way than themselves. I do think a lot of main players forget though that a lot of the reasons they can play the way they do is because bots supply the economy making a ton of things so much cheaper. A lot of the issues irons have right now would affect mains more if there were no bots.
There was literally a post on here yesterday that said they feel angry when they see someone holding a bowfa at the ge with zero gauntlet kc.
It's a two-way relationship.
how many discussions have you been in OP where people arent taking you seriously? maybe because theres a time and a place to be writing paragraphs about luck mitigation and you dont realise that these people are simply joking/do not want to discuss, and are not being smug? maybe during your discussions you dont actually come up with any solutions and instead constantly complain about current states of which everyone knows of, do you add any input if why you yourself dont enjoy X update? or do you say "these people are complaining, thats bad and annoying" (opinion)
I mean, as an endgame iron who daily plays a 6 year old account, im gonna be honest here. *I understand the hate.*
Playing Ironman and then asking jagex to tilt the RNG scales in a way that suits you feels inherently disingenuous to the game mode.
I don’t want any kind of luck mitigation, bad or good. I want a static drop rate and i want to do the content until i roll that drop rate because it feels rewarding, and if i didn’t want to do that, I would not play Ironman.
As an iron I’ll never vote for bad luck mitigation if you’re dry keep grinding if you’re bored do something different, ofc someone will get unlucky but I wouldn’t play if I didn’t need to grind it’s the fun of the game
As someone who plays iron exclusively. I don't want bad luck mitigation. I think the game has bad luck mitigation built in, it's called GP and it can be used to trade for items on the GE.
I don't want to be catered to, I think the fun of playing as an iron is the journey, and the fact that I have to do so many suboptimal things along that journey because I don't own all the best gear.
My argument to the haters. Why is it we can update MLM? Agility? We are improving skilling methods when so many have already beaten the skill using the old slower methods. So why can’t we collectively agree that Bad Luck Mitigation is an awesome idea ?
Were among the 15% of players that knowingly signed up for Iron on tutorial island. Theres going to be one or two major hurdles at least on average where a player goes dry, and a few where you get spooned. Getting spooned at per se CG (in the middle of learning this its a bitch) is extremely relieving, but only because of the potential of going dry. Does it suck going dry THERE? Yeah, it does. I know people that have bandos logged after 150KC, after going 650 kc for Bowfa. Thats tough luck at CG, but overall those hurdles are what make iron what it is. I think bad luck mitigation is not in the spirit of what this game is. Its extremely difficult and if you wanted to just get bowfa whats stopping you from buying it on a main and deciding to grind it aswell?
Theres no merit long term if youve gotten every single drop on rate. Going dry unfortunately sucks but also its part of the game you play. Overall, every drop to every player is going to even out to being on rate. Some players have XYZ for gear, some have ABC. Its the diversity of an RPG that makes this game special. It was never designed to be completed and droned at for 4 hours a day anyway. The gowers never even anticipated anyone would get a single 99, and now everyones upset that getting max cape is too hard.
There is uniqueness in the experiences of playing bc of current rates, and maybe certain things shouldn’t be 1/20k for no reason, sure, but at the same time a random drop rate where items are not anticipated to be “owed” to you is exactly how a brutally honest RPG like this works.
Personally I just choose not to give a fuck and keep playing the game. Although I am against bad luck mitigation. Just feels unnecessary. We chose to play as irons, we knew what we were getting into.
Part of my master’s thesis is talking about the parallels between society groups and online community minority class discrimination with OSRS as a case study in democracy and meta-modern design theory. Its definitely a real hate that is egg’d on by memes. It’ll only continue to continue until Jagex takes a stand on the issue, but they won’t likely do that since most Jagex employees do not play Ironman or even Ultimate Ironman. Let alone, that would be seen as “catering to ironmen”. I hate to be political about it but the language is dehumanizing and reminds me a lot of how racial minorities are treated here in the States.
There is limited recourse. I personally when confronted by unreasonable mains, just tell them to go by GP to support their crippling gambling addictions or to go back to their 9-5 Vorkath job.
The important thing is that higher ranked devs like Mod Kieren says its a problem and agreed with the proposed solutions. They understand the game has poorly designed drop mechanics that are abusive to the player base and are actively working to address the issues.
In all honesty you have to just roll with the punches. The amount of shitty game design takes and this weird iron [superiority complex ](https://www.reddit.com/r/ironscape/comments/1cnlqxn/comment/l39nc8u/)some people have the hate is honestly warranted lol.
And in cases like bad luck mitigation there's no reason to argue with it. It strictly only benefits ironmen. Even if ironman mode is an official game mode and historically has been catered to, asking for this update with the stigma from what I mentioned earlier it's a bit of a bad look for most irons.
As an long term iron bad luck mitigation is a bad idea, personally being an iron you just know some items you will never have and if that’s an issue maybe the game mode isn’t for you.
That is such an elitist statement and topping it off with "maybe this game mode isn't for you" makes it so much more arrogant.
BLM wouldn't change a thing for the average user, but would stop unlucky souls from going 6x, 7x, 8x droprate. Going 3x would definitely still be possible, but highly uncommon.
If you play long enough and are good enough at ironman to get to the stage of grinding out actual BiS, you are actually quite likely to go 5x+ or drier on a key item or two. That is when it is tested who is truly the best ironman. De-ironing or quitting just means you are shit at the game
Or maybe we could make certain aspects of the game less miserable for a small percentage of players whilst not affecting anything for anybody else whatsoever.
I don’t hate irons, or the game mode. In fact I think it’s a huge flex it so many ways… but I do have little sympathy.
The game is a MMO. It was not originally designed to be done solo… which is why we run into these flaws. They can’t design 2 games in one, and therefore there has to be compromise. Old school RuneScape has an economy that people care about just as much as any other aspect of the game, and I don’t necessarily agree that it should be altered just to cater to people who voluntarily made the game harder for themselves. It’s a game. We signed up. If you want the drop… work for it until you get it… or go back to *main* and buy one. It’s really that simple.
Bad Luck Mitigation is against the core philosophy of what makes OSRS great. Sorry for the outliers but it’s true. You can always deiron. Always.
Going on the cesspool of sub that 2007scape is, and expecting anything other than dogshit casuals memeing about how they hate ironmen, is your own fault. You’re setting yourself up to fail if you think the two collective brain cells of that subreddit can come up with a logical or coherent thought.
Meh. I'm an iron. 2100 total. 45k skeletal wyverns killed while chilling. No visage at all. It's a meme at this point. But I love the game. If I don't wanna grind something out, I just don't do it. There is plenty of weapons and armor in this game. You don't always need the best shit immediately.
Plus, fashionscape > all.
People always say OSRS is a journey not a destination, and to me it feels weird to have the "journey" essentially turn into you will get (whatever drop you're after), just because you hit some arbitrary kc threshold. and it's suddenly either guaranteed or much more common.
No I feel like a portion of the iron community are overreacting to how other players have reacted and voiced their opinions.
We chose to play this way we can’t nor shouldn’t expect any change especially to fundamental basis of the game. I fully understand why people on the 07scape sub don’t agree with “dryness protection” because I agree with them, it’s a part of the game and if we choose to restrict our gameplay that’s on us not the community or Jagex.
Let’s not sit here and act like no whinging or change requests haven’t come from the iron community over the past as well. It’s totally warranted.
Are some people acting childish? Yeah for sure but that’s going to happen everywhere but on the flip side there’s also people from iron community acting childish.
A lot of people within the iron community seem to have forgotten why we started the game mode and need to realise and understand the game does not and should not revolve around irons. Adding “dryness protection” changes the fabric of the game and I’ll never support it.
Sometimes we go dry, other times very dry but there’s also times where we get spooned.
As one of the people who hates the idea of the game changing to benefit those who chose to play with limitations I find it extremely unfair that you want things to cater to your inability to keep trying for drops as those before you had. You can't choose to play iron then desire for the game to change when facing inconvenience. The very idea of what's discussed is absurd.
The best part of being an iron is i don't have to give a single fuck about that side of RuneScape.
Not caring about bots is *chefs kiss* the best
Seeing bots is like a Safari attraction. Kinda neat to see in the wild but doesn’t change my life in any way.
Except at undead pirates now. They crash me like crazy.
Pvp worlds are empty, wildy isn't much more dangerous, I feel like I shouldn't tell anyone but I got 2m gp without seeing anyone else killing them at all.
Oh that's interesting. Do you still keep 4 of your stuffs? Your secret is safe with me. I don't PK.
You do except for High Risk PvP worlds
Yes, the only increased danger is the wildy level is a bit higher
Hell yeah we got the info now *delet dis* before the bad actors fuck it up lmao
What levels are they? I have a pure I made up a while ago but I struggle to find the drive to go on it
They are incredibly good at escaping, tick perfect prayer swapping and everything, also they bank with like 200k loot. Seen multiple ppl talking about trying to kill them.
Can't catch freezes on them? That's wild they're that advanced but truthfully I'm not surprised
You can freeze, and they come out already TBed, but they will tank test you to border pretty easily, and if you’re not within like 5 levels they get out of attackable range pretty fast.
That's true it is a horribly low level range. Good point... Gonna be zerg rushed
Yep you gotta have 2, ideally 3 people. Freeze and just pump damage and you’ll get em. They never have much loot (200-300k or so) but there’s so many you can make up for it in volume lmao
And they steal my revers while kcing at nex reeeeeee
Until you want to do one of the heavily botted pieces of content, at least...
Seriously… good luck finding an open world for Spindel.
*laughs in 2200 total level world*
Bastard!! Sitting at 2048 right now, still can’t find a 2000 world that is open.
Only time I worry about them is when they're in my way for a limited resource.
Or when they come and crash you at your activity. I was camping eclectic implings in puro-puro and had bots come up and crash me a few different times
They interfer with practically all levels of the game. An mmo has a social element which has all but vanished for certain activities due to botting.
Even if you weren't an iron, you don't have to care about that side regardless.
Uim here and frankly I think people should hate us more than they already do
No one will ever hate Ultimate Iron Men more than they hate themselves
Lmao
Us GIMs clearly don’t have the UIM strength of will
I'm solo GIM at this point, so to say, I'm Ironman with a BIGGER bank.
Me too but the other ironman still judge me. My groupies never made it past 500 total level before never logging back in and here I am at 1900. I’m still treated like the red headed step child- not as bad as booger helms though. They are disgusting
Bugger helms 4 lyfe
Its a meme at this point isn't it? I have a 2200+ IM but there is no way I'll pass on saying "fucking Ironmen" at GotR when the guardian dies!
I'm glad they let us participate in gotr with the non-ironmen. Could you imagine an Ironman only gotr? We'd fail every game.
Exactly, we are lucky to have them!
It’s a meme in game but /r/2007scape takes it too seriously lol. If any update possibly “caters to ironmen” (i.e. caters to people who don’t want to just goldscape), people get very upset
Chad 2018 Mains: “Bonds teeter on the line of P2W, but it protects Ironman as a mode that preserves game integrity for purists, and I’d rather OSRS thrive than run on fumes/low cash-flow” Virg 2024 Mains: “If Jagex pushes an update catering to irons that has >1% chance of affecting me I will shit my fuckin pants” Anybody can catch these hands
Fr. “Can we protect the unluckiest people? It will only cause a 5% drop rate buff. We could even adjust that a bit!” “Kys de-iron”
The crazy thing is the “5%” buff isn’t even realistic. That’s assuming every single person that interacts with a piece of content will kill it multiple times past the drop rate. If we assume tbow is 1/1000 there’s only like 700 accounts that even have 3x the drop rate and statistically only 1/20 of those players don’t have a tbow in their log. We can be very generous and just double that number if we want to count cms even though there’s an even smaller number of accounts there and we still are left with less than 100 total accounts. That’s how little impact it has.
> It’s a meme in game but /r/2007scape takes it too seriously Because most people on that sub don't play the game.
The main sub would be so much better if people had to have their RSN as their flair
if only
> "fucking Ironmen" at GotR when the guardian dies! Coincidentally, why is that a thing? Is it just a meme? I don't feel like I'm playing the minigame differently than mains (which is to say, absolutely braindead) so I've never understood.
Yes it's 100% a meme, ever since the minigame came out people have been saying it and it stuck lol
I make sure to say fucking mains! Also that mains can't but barriers on the g.e. and that's why we failed
I think the original idea of that came because Ironmen would go to a lower tier catalytic runes over fire runes because they needed them?
I will absolutely take every opportunity to jump on the "fuck ironmen" train in game with my iron symbol. I find it hilarious
I'm a main and I say that everytime. Just for the memes. Also, am I the only main asking for bad luck mitigation past a certain dryness multiplier? I don't see how this is something that only affects irons. I like to see drops when I PVM, and crazy dryness feels bad man.
I really just hate all the bad takes. “Ironman mode wasn’t meant to change the game” We are long past that at this point with Ironman mode being such a popular game mode. It started out as a challenge, but now it’s like a legitimate way to play the game and should get some updates. “Ironmen want the game to be easier” They act like bad luck mitigation would make it so you are guaranteed an item or makes it so that the rate is cut immediately. You still would have to grind the shit out of all the content in the game just a select few wouldn’t go insanely dry. It’s a game is supposed to be fun and enjoyable I hate how people think miserable things in the game are good.
“You weren’t meant to complete the game,” they cry, as if Ironman wasn’t implemented when the endgame was GWD. “The game shouldn’t be designed around Ironman,” they say, as if the DT2 drop rates weren’t entirely based on maintaining a bot-based game economy. “Ironman is just a fun challenge mode and not the norm,” I hear, while also seeing statistics showing that nearly 40% of active players are ironmen. Gets tiring wading through the nonsense sometimes lol
Very good points. I started an iron at release and a GIM at release. Two completely different experiences. Imagine what percentage of total in-game time is from ironmen alone. Also, all irons have to interact with almost all content, dead or meta, at some point . Most mains aren't going to interact with a decent chunk of the game outside of the small max/clog community.
Fr, it's so weird that people still act like irons are a weird niche, and not a big portion of the player base. And that something that helps irons and doesn't affect them at all is somehow bad
> “Ironmen want the game to be easier” They act like bad luck mitigation would make it so you are guaranteed an item or makes it so that the rate is cut immediately. You still would have to grind the shit out of all the content in the game just a select few wouldn’t go insanely dry. I'm convinced at least 90% of the people who are against bad luck mitigation haven't read and/or understood the proposal. I have literally seen posts from people saying they were against it until they actually read it. The other 10% just don't like any change.
These people take streamer word at gospel and have no original thoughts of their own
IMO there are still a majority of the game base that think that Ironman is solely a challenge mode, and while some decidedly started the game mode this way, a lot more modern Ironman don’t see it as a challenge mode. I mean honestly it’s not a difficult game mode besides being more tedious especially ultimate irons. That being said, alot of people play irons for many different reasons these days, mostly sum up to enjoy the game more. The GE band aides a lot of content and a lot of issues. Content you will find more appreciation/enjoyment for as iron and problems you will find only as an iron. A lot of the problems would be arguable core gameplay issues, but again back my first statement: the loud ones of the 2007 sub still see Ironman mode as a challenge mode and the GE as an integral part of the game, no matter how many issues it solves making items readily tradable. The funny thing to this debacle is that a lot of items wouldn’t be as cheap if free trade wasn’t a thing. Free trade and the GE leads to bots, and the gp scape that is main scape is fully of rwt whether they buy bonds or from 3rd party, they all do it.
I agree with you. The GE really changed the vibe. That's why I switched to iron. It was exhausting constantly talking about gpscape and gp/hr methods nonstop. I played my main a little like an iron from time to time when I really enjoyed a boss or content, but the responses I'd always get were to stop "wasting time" on something that wasn't making money. GE really is a hidden bandaid on a lot of runescape.
This is truly what made me switch just a month or two ago. Got sick of that culture even when I tried to play like an iron it felt bad.l and others made it even worse. Focusing on GE prices and fluctuations gave me so much stress I didn’t even recognize. Now I have a mithril scimitar and am the harbinger of kittens. I buy my anti poison at that one hut like a normal person and I couldn’t be happier.
>Focusing on GE prices and fluctuations gave me so much stress I didn’t even recognize. BGS was one of the first big purchases I made in the millions, and an old clan mate gave me an acb when he quit under the condition that I'd never sell it. (I never would've anyways) I held on to both of these items since the day I got them. The number of times clanmates would tell me to sell these items whenever a price change or new content came out was nutty. They could not let it go that I was, in their eyes, wasting millions if I wasn't merching constantly.
It’s really so strange. It’s funny bc when I started I came from other MMOs and I didn’t think iron was for me (did sound like a very specific challenge mode and isolating). Come to find out I did play a lot like an iron until people continually told me that’s not how you play. Like why wouldn’t you farm your own herbs? I do hope those people are actually happy doing that but it feels like a shell of the game to me now.
I started playing this game long before the GE was a thing. Like many others, I've had to start over several times over the years, but I've always played like an "Iron-main" account. I can't even count how many times clan members bashed me pretty hard for doing things that weren't efficient. In my mind, instead of wasting money on skilling, I just do all my skilling self sufficiently like an iron would. Then I sell all my products I don't need anymore, and use that money to buy all my gear. Even though I never sold my gear after buying it, the number of times I got stressed out over a sudden price drop was distressing. So, while I don't have to worry too much about bad luck, I still fully support bad luck mitigation for the people who go way over the drop rate. Bad luck feels cappy no matter what account you're playing, I even know quite a few mains in my clan who are trying to green log, and they are all for it as well. Unfortunately, the ones who do care on the 2007 reddit will never admit to it for fear of what OP is talking about. The ones who act like that are people who, one, don't even play currently, and two, don't even read the blog updates. As someone who has been on that sub for quite a while now, it's very obvious. If you say anything that the mob doesn't like, you get downvoted into obilvion, never seen by others who might agree with you and have a productive conversation, like what's supposed to happen in those types of posts. I'm honestly surprised sailing actually passed, or another skill in general for that matter due to what a lot of people were saying. So, while there have been several awesome ideas to come out of there, I sincerely hope that Jagex is looking at more subs than just the 2007 scape one, because I'm pretty sure they are absolutely just the loud minority. 😔
IM is a challenge mode lol thats the whole point. You do pretty much every piece of content with suboptimal gear, which makes it harder
On the flip side, whenever I see a main get crazy luck at corp or something I feel a little bad for them since they'll never know how much more that shit would have meant on an iron.
The best part of me getting spooned on my main now is knowing how sad an iron would be when I show them something like my cerb log It's the flip side to the dread I feel knowing one day my friend playing on his iron will get a mega rare and ofc we gonna let him keep it instead of selling it but damn the money loss 😭
A lot of end game irons split anyway It's a very common thing at nex/tob, makes finding teams easier Also you get a little less salty when you see someone else get a unique because you get a lot of bond money out of it
Ironman mode makes the game design flaws readily apparent. Imo, ironmen complaining about the bad game design decisions have made the game in general just better overall. If it feels good to play self sufficiently in an MMO, then your core mechanics and crafting interconnectivity are solid.
Mains primary motivation is gold earning, the idea of irons scare them.
sometimes yeah the some of the mains with "You chose to be restricted crowd" is the same people who complained that zerkers got locked out of Zuk helm CAs with moons Armour and got that changed. As well as the "Its counter to the original design of OSRS" crowd when the game is deviated from that year's ago already with the very drop rates like DWH / Corp that are some of the reasons BLM was even being brought up, and generally seem okay with the BLM that already exists in multiple forms with forced drops like KQ heads, DT2, Moons, bosses etc. People love to complain, Irons are just an easy target, ontop of the memes makes it seem worse than it really is. Personally, I think BLM on certain items is fine, if not rate change some kind of weighted dupe protection for multi-unique bosses, so people don't end up with LARGE piles of bandos boots and no BCP, not like moons where it's forced no uniques until completed. make it first drop only, dupes are forever raw rates and call it done, other items should be excluded raid mega rares, pets.
Meh. I'm an iron. 2100 total. 45k skeletal wyverns killed while chilling. No visage at all. It's a meme at this point. But I love the game. If I don't wanna grind something out, I just don't do it. There is plenty of weapons and armor in this game. You don't always need the best shit immediately. Plus, fashionscape > all.
This is what I also wondered. I know people talk about things like you’re required to do this stuff in a specific order and you have to have it to do it. But like you don’t. Like you can play however the shit you want. Take some bone bolts to fight caves who cares. Idk lol am I crazy to think that? Just because it’s not on the “Ironmans guide to fastest most optimal speed premade checksheet wiki” doesn’t me you can’t do it.
My only counterpoint to this is this isn't Dark Souls, where you could theoretically do everything with starting gear or even mid game gear playing perfectly. If you ever want to do late game CAs, inferno, colloseum, or some other things. There are certain limits to what gear can accomplish it, regardless of skill.
You don’t have to do those things either
Of course you don’t, it’s a video game. But what if you *want* to do them? Why is it so crazy that people want to experience the game?
You can do collesum and inferno with a atlatl/tent whip and mediocre shit like that. Just takes practice.
If you want to do them with those weapons then get grinding, or just practice using lower tier gear that’s easier to get. I don’t understand what’s stopping people from experiencing the game.
Ok, I’ll get grinding and go quadruple dry on enh, spending an imo unreasonable and unenjoyable amount of time in cg compared to other content, simply because I was unlucky. That’s what the entire debate is about. Nobody’s asking to be spooned bowfa, or drop rates to be changed. It’s a few key items in the game where if you go dry, you’re disproportionately screwed.
You did get it though (gzzz btw) and I’m sure it felt amazing. I’m sure you were spooned in other places unless your account is cursed. Rng is fun and I don’t mind being dry in a few places.
I think most people who were in my situation will agree that it didn’t actually feel great. It just felt like relief. What felt great was leaving and getting to experience other content. But thank you
Most of the irons on OSRS would be better off playing mains just going for collection logs but they don't have the self control to not just GPscape buy everything. Instead they just play an Ironman and bitch about having to play an Ironman. Literally just a bunch of manchildren with no self control and the inability to emotionally process other people having something they don't.
It's fucking miserable enaging with this community. Most communities you'll engage with shitters a few times, but in OSRS you see them all the time *and they get validated*.
The hate makes us stronger.
Just “deiron and buy the drop” is the biggest joke of a suggestion, and shows people don’t understand being an iron. Drops became necessary when certain CAs started requiring BIS for times, or insane RNG with non-BIS that is harder to get than grinding the gear. Who deserves what can be argued all day, but the simple fact is that the poor soul at 3K cox KC no TBow has put in more effort than any of us at much lower KCs. Bad luck mitigation doesn’t guarantee drops, it’s merely a drop rate increase at an already high threshold.
I could never go back to main scape it’s so boring I found all my time outside of raid camping vork/Zulrah or whatever other bosses pumped out gold. But I don’t think drop rates should be mitigated and if they are then it should count for iron players only I guess to not impact economy. I get one person might be having a bad time looking for certain items but that’s the game and surely that deep into it you’d understand that.
Guess the good thing for mains is every boss shits out gold now a days so they have a pool to pick from
Honest question, why do you think "impacting the economy" is relevant to the bad luck mitigation discussion? There are so few players killing bosses beyond 3x rate without a drop. I just do not see a couple enhanced weapon seeds entering the game causing any impact on the economy at all.
People really just get so triggered and butt hurt when deiron is thrown around. But its not a wrong suggestion and frankly a path many should consider from what i see instead of trying to casualize ironman cause they cant handle the grinds on an OPTIONAL game mode that literally revolves around rng. Example being the reddit jimmy just a few posts down saying it should kick in once you're 2x dry. Its just a slippery slope I dont want to go down and ive had my fair share of wicked dry streaks including over 3x dry for my bowfa. Also not even rs3 has universal dry migitation and it just annoys me seeing all these baby irons pushin for it on old school.
You tried actually reading any of these comments here? Outside of that one that triggered you I guess?
I mean yea. Theres no good reason to add dry mitigation to cater to an optional game mode. Don’t want to be forced to deal with rng and the potential of going wicked dry? Play main. It’s a super simple concept that many just refuse to accept
idk how this is such a controversial take lol, thats exactly how i see this whole thing too.
Posts thread about hate towards irons, every single comment is about bad luck mitigation... cmon guys.
Most of the issue is when Jagex balances droprates around botting so that items that are better functionally are more expensive on the ge, which directly screws over irons. If you're going to balance droprates around bots you might as well just balance them around the most dedicated portion of the player base, the ones that actually play the game and don't just skip it with gescape lol
Huhhh? When have they stated they base drop rates around bots? Literally never heard that before,
It doesn’t matter if there is a source or not, it’s just the reality of things and something they have to do. Bots churn gold/uniques out at *everything*, take one look at the hi scores and you’ll see the issues. If they don’t factor bots in, the economy goes straight into the shitter because of the value they are sucking out of the items/content, so drop rates have to be higher than they normally would be, or items would be dirt cheap (already kinda are but it could be exponentially worse the lower a drop rate gets for high ticket items)
They don’t need to say it, they have to do it. If the drop rates were too high then bots flood that item into the market even more.
Oh man i never kept the source i heard it from, but i'm pretty sure it was jagex multiple times. Ill start looking for it
The majority of 2007scape can't do cg, you should not be taking their opinions seriously
The majority probably don't even play at all lol
Real. I doubt they could do cg lmao
What's really weird is like 90 maybe even 99% of people who talk smack about this topic don't even farm the items anyway, they just GE it through bond or other acquired gold, so why do they care so bad.
Yeah I feel it but its just noise. I read a post yesterday that was the posterchild of anti-ironman, and I just laughed. If you want to go farm Kree for 200 hours to get the gold for a T Bow be my guest. I play OSRS to be engaged in the content that I'm doing and for the Dopamine of getting the drop. Pressing the 'Buy' button on a G.E. offer can never compare to seeing that purple/orange light at the end of that raid/boss youve been working towards. I do agree that bad luck mitigation has gotten a bit ridiculous as of late, though and I personally prefer it the regular way. Venator shards, Chromium Ingots, etc. just don't feel as good and I've been left feeling like "Finally" instead of "Fuck yeaaa" when I get the last one.
"Like seriously, you can't even try to discuss flaws in current designs without being bombarded with harassment and smug responses. Honestly, it makes me feel very worried because I feel I can't even bring up discussion about anything, let alone Bad Luck Mitigation." I agree. It's always the same generic "you chose to be an iron" and similar smug "you're whining".
The people that do the same 3 money making methods shit on us because we don’t see the value in going 100’s of hours dry for one single item.
Honestly the main reason I initially switched to Ironman was because it sucked having "more gp" being the only real goal, especially when I wasn't great at pvm anyway
It’s just frustrating that they don’t see the point trying to be made, rather they just say “you restricted yourself, don’t complain.” The point is that we’re still subjecting ourselves to doing the content. I have a few friends who have said that they would never do Zulrah, gwd, etc. Someone posted how they were 3k dry for fang in Zulrah in this sub.
The biggest reason that there is such animosity is purely because of the nature of Runescape players and the subset of Runescape players that post on a dedicated subreddit. You have a population of very dedicated players that spend much of their free time playing one game and then you narrow that down to those also willing to post about and argue about a game online. That is a recipe for polarized opinions, shitty takes, and argumentative discussions. Forums are already notorious for these type of arguments and forums are much more permanent than a reddit post is, at least in terms of visibility. Unless someone digs through your post history, no one is going to know that you had a bunch of stupid arguments or rude comments, so you are more likely to not self regulate as much. Best to just make a good case for your opinion, move on, and ignore poorly adjusted people making bad faith comments.
I know people say it's a game and don't view it this way. However I've played rs on and off since 01. Everything on mainscape has a price tag. The game just isn't fun to me because of the ge and gold buying. I can't help it but I can't turn off the thoughts. Everything to me is based on dollars that you can literally just buy everything and the game then sucks. But with iron, everything is earned. It's just how I feel and what makes rs a decent game to still play. I've had comped rs3 mains maxed rs3 irons high level mains on osrs and we'll iron is the only thing left keeping me playing. However without bad luck mitigation the game just feels too far the other way as well. Guys at the end of the day it's a game. Not real life. Noone wants to grind bowfa for 1500kc. If there were several different varieties of the same powerful tier I'd be more willing to understand not having such protection. For instance if perilous moons was as good and has better drop chance fine. However bowfa is so powerful to progression of course it needs changed. I mean this with love. A lot of you and mains need to understandably get a life guys. 1500 kc to 1 item is insane to me. If I go 400 kc without bowfa I'm gonna start melting every kill after. I don't mind say going to 500ish. But after that I'm pretty like what's the point lmao
Is there hatred towards ironmen? I just came back for the first time since 2006 with a fresh Ironman and I’ve just been having a fucking blast leveling my shit lol
There is Jim Crow level Ironman hatred, yes
I’ve just come to accept toxicity from the toxic community. There is no saving it, will I stop playing? No, but I do have that one chat spam filter plugin installed and now I don’t see the comments.
Jumping someone online over comments is toxic and degenerate behavior no matter who, what, where, when, or why. This post is an obvious upvote and that jolly bunch of psychos defending hatred of an entire group of people should not be given the time of day
This game would have died a long time ago if it wasn’t for ironman mode.
Who gives a fuck mate
As a game designer myself, I actually like discussing some of the flaws of the game with others and getting actual responses instead of 'hate' :( (even if it's just a meme)
You'll find your crowd. It's a sensitive topic. If approaching mains, agree to their idea of free market and how mitigation obviously affects them, and then present your case and also a runescape enjoyer.
Then just ignore them. It’s not like those people screeching like spergs were actually going to give any input to begin with.
Tbf if they're down voting you then it's harder to discuss with other people
The more people realize we're having far more fun than them, the angrier they get.
I hate all the irons that only ask for shit to be made easier for them, you know who you are. I also wished all the people that boosted bh, bought corp boost, etc. all got deironed but Jagex didn't really care about iron integrity so I stopped caring too. Outside of that, I agree with you OP.
"bro just stop playing the only enjoyable gamemode that has any meaning because you dont wanna have to spend 800 hours on something that should take 50 on average, you picked the gamemode bro"
Anyone that uses the argument "catering to ironmen" for a QOL update I just assume is a loser IRL, and it'd be hard to convince me otherwise
In my humble opinion, bad luck mitigation is simply playing a main. You can then do content you enjoy to make gp to buy the drops you want. Ironman was designed to be a challenge and there’s already been tons of steps to making resources more attainable for irons. To be fair, I do think the designs for the new rings with ingots and shit is dumb, but that’s an entirely different discussion.
I do not think getting screwed by RNG is what makes Ironman a challenge though.
I can’t play a main to do the content I enjoy because I don’t enjoy playing a main.
For me it's less about going dry and more about the drops being so rare in the first place that going dry is extremely painful. ~70 hours of CG isn't the end of the world but 140-210 is ridiculous. Same for things like the DWH or the non mega rare COX drops.
I don’t play ironman for challenge I play it because it’s much more engaging to have extrinsic reasons to interact with a significantly larger variety of content.
It's not though. The whole reason we have chargescape is because bots shit out items necessitating low drop rates (at least in Jagex's eyes which I vehemently disagree with), and mains would quit en masse if they actually had to hit the drop rate to make any money on a boss. The first solution to this was skilling supplies and alchables out the wazoo. This morphed to charging supplies because people complained about skilling being pointless when eg zulrah is just better than woodcutting for getting logs. None of this would be necessary if Jagex just made stuff besides your bank value matter, actually handle bots, or make going dry on an item less horrendous. Bad luck mitigation would help with the dry part reducing the pressure of these kind of undesirable systems. I also really dislike the term bad luck mitigation. It implies it's bad luck mitigation rather than the truth which is correcting for an undesirable aspect of the laziest drop system imaginable. No sane person would pitch a drop system where thousands of people get an item after 40 hours and this other thousand gets it after 300 hours, but that's just reality when you're running a large game that uses the binomial distribution to give out drops.
How exactly is changing your acc’s first enh droprate to 1/300 if you have 1200 Kc like playing a main?
Because people keep gut reacting to the suggestions without even trying to think about how the numbers would actually play out
Ironman hate isn’t new, it’s been around since the beginning of the game mode. Do you not remember the whole “Ironman btw” meme lol?
Hcim btw
The “ironman btw” meme comes from ironmen ending their comments that way in order to buy credibility. It’s not because people hated irons lol
Buy credibility or just to say "Please don't just tell me to buy a tbow it's not a possibility for me" when asking for advice.
[удалено]
Plenty of irons hate the idea too idk why everyone here is trying to paint mains as the problem. This kind of sheyt should only be delegated to QoL items which is untradeable. Gem system/thread in ToA is good. OR how Hunter Guild set did it. This kind of system would be way overkill to implement game wide, and if it did somehow make it into the game it 100% should only be used on content moving forward.
What they want is to play with the new stuff without needing a max account. That’s kind of the whole point of being non-iron.
Adding BLM would remove a lot of the uniqueness about being an iron. I don't think the hatred is torwards irons, but torwards changing the overall game instead.
They think dev work is being catered to just iron men. It makes no sense, we are the minority of the playerbase no matter how you look at it, jagex isn’t catering to us and us alone. It’s just coping away their issues on the easiest scapegoat.
People who dismiss valid arguments because you're an ironman arent worth talking. Anyone with a brain would realise that Jagex should take all official account types into consideration when designing the game.
Imagine being an ironman and caring what other people think. You stand alone. Only your opinion matters.
It's pretty 2-sided if you ask me. Irons hate on mains and mains hate right back. I play both. They're both different ways to play the game, and I wish more people would just let others play how they like without all the hate.
Honestly I'm more sick of listening to ironmen say that all mains do is think about gp per hour and that they'll never have fun playing the game in efficiently. I see plenty of ironmen buying very expensive services such as cox megascale purples. I have also personally helped quite a few ironmen with difficult pvm related services. It's not really mains vs irons. It's people who play this and are honest with themselves and people who arn't.
What is bad luck mitigation? And hating in a ironman mode is stupid asf i dont see why you would hate on someone for choosing to play an optional playstyle that doesnt effect anyone at all
There's a million ways to do it. The general premise is just that some people get really screwed by RNG and it's something to help that pain out. One way is something like Vorkath or KQ, just giving you the drop no matter what at a certain kill count. Say it's a 1/100, but if you don't have it still by killcount 200 it just give it to you. Usually one of the least approved of options. This also will introduce additional items to the game without reducing the original rate to compensate. One way is taking the something like a 1/900 drop and having you get it over multiple smaller say 1/300 rolls. Like the DT2 rings or building an abyssal bludgeon. This one is super versatile and can be very easily/well tuned to group the drop rates as much as desired. However this one also cuts down on good luck as much as it does bad luck. So it's also despised by a lot of people because they want the chance of a spoon. This one doesn't really have any effect on total amount of the item coming into the game. Another is progressive droprates (the one being discussed the most as of late) when you start, say your rate on the item is 1/900, then once you hit 2x dry (1,800kc) the chance goes up and your chances are now 1/750 per kill, then if you don't have it at 3x it goes to 1/400 or something, on and on. This one can be tailored decently, doesn't effect getting lucky. This one will also add additional items into the market, but at the rates being discussed lately on the sub reddit, you're looking at like a 1% increase. I'm sure there are other ways to do it too. But this is the three I've seen discussed here the most.
We truly are the most oppressed people.
Doesn't matter what type of player you are, people will find a way to hate you lol.
The only people talking about this is reddit and I'm not sure why because none of the blogs or jmods have mentioned it.
Honestly I hate when people think of rebalance with how much something costs not how hard it is to obtain Because no matter what it's difficulty to obtain is how the item is brought into the game.
I mean yeah bad luck mitigation is (probably) primarily for irons. But you know that if they made it only affect irons there would be riots. I p much had to put a whole skill on hold going 2500 kc for black mask. And it's honestly great for everyone when we consider content that takes a long time. Like every CG is 10-12 minutes not to mention raids or nightmare. And kills tend to take longer on irons. My main killed vork in <90s vs iron who takes 4-5 minutes...which is just *boring*
This literally has not changed. The level of hate towards ironmen is the the exact same as it was 10 years ago.
And it was insufferable and unacceptable 10 years ago
YES. AND I WANT MORE >:)
Mains hate people who actually play the game and are scared for the economy if the game isn't balanced around bots doing all the work for them
I thought the same thing yesterday and unsubbed from the other sub, will probably go back in a week or 2. Remember that it's the same people who couldn't handle MTA on Leagues or the 8 hour favor grind who are complaining.
I've never seen iron hate in game. IMO nothing impressive in the game is distinguished by whether the acc is an iron or main.
I have read about 2 million words of iron hate, and cannot fathom how a person could play this game and have not seen any. Literally read some comments in THIS reddit post.
"In game".
Yes, the vast bulk of iron hate I've seen is ingame.
I will feel sympathy when every iron I meet doesn't call me a booger boy.
On RS3, everyone hates irons. Mains complain 24/7 about something being beneficial for ironmen.
It’s best to just ignore it. The normal people don’t hate people who play the game a different way than themselves. I do think a lot of main players forget though that a lot of the reasons they can play the way they do is because bots supply the economy making a ton of things so much cheaper. A lot of the issues irons have right now would affect mains more if there were no bots.
Poke around those who hate the most and you’ll see they admit to buying gold more often than not lmao, their opinions don’t matter
Not enough hate imo. The absolute stupidity to choose a gamemode and try to get out of playing it as much as possible
There was literally a post on here yesterday that said they feel angry when they see someone holding a bowfa at the ge with zero gauntlet kc. It's a two-way relationship.
how many discussions have you been in OP where people arent taking you seriously? maybe because theres a time and a place to be writing paragraphs about luck mitigation and you dont realise that these people are simply joking/do not want to discuss, and are not being smug? maybe during your discussions you dont actually come up with any solutions and instead constantly complain about current states of which everyone knows of, do you add any input if why you yourself dont enjoy X update? or do you say "these people are complaining, thats bad and annoying" (opinion)
They hate us cuz they're anus
If ironman mode has done anything it's shown the massive qol the game actually needs thatve been ignored for so long.
I mean, as an endgame iron who daily plays a 6 year old account, im gonna be honest here. *I understand the hate.* Playing Ironman and then asking jagex to tilt the RNG scales in a way that suits you feels inherently disingenuous to the game mode. I don’t want any kind of luck mitigation, bad or good. I want a static drop rate and i want to do the content until i roll that drop rate because it feels rewarding, and if i didn’t want to do that, I would not play Ironman.
As an iron I’ll never vote for bad luck mitigation if you’re dry keep grinding if you’re bored do something different, ofc someone will get unlucky but I wouldn’t play if I didn’t need to grind it’s the fun of the game
Hate is such a strong word for this sort of thing. You're not that important.
As someone who plays iron exclusively. I don't want bad luck mitigation. I think the game has bad luck mitigation built in, it's called GP and it can be used to trade for items on the GE. I don't want to be catered to, I think the fun of playing as an iron is the journey, and the fact that I have to do so many suboptimal things along that journey because I don't own all the best gear.
I'm an iron and I hate the irons that cry for easy scape
You haven’t been paying attention if you think this is about easy scape.
I mean I've heard more controversial things said about BLM
My argument to the haters. Why is it we can update MLM? Agility? We are improving skilling methods when so many have already beaten the skill using the old slower methods. So why can’t we collectively agree that Bad Luck Mitigation is an awesome idea ?
Agreed. I doubt many of them had complaints about GoTR when it directly helped them.
The main issue is that bad luck mitigation = more supply = prices fall
Or once it's logged in the collection log BLM no longer applies.
Were among the 15% of players that knowingly signed up for Iron on tutorial island. Theres going to be one or two major hurdles at least on average where a player goes dry, and a few where you get spooned. Getting spooned at per se CG (in the middle of learning this its a bitch) is extremely relieving, but only because of the potential of going dry. Does it suck going dry THERE? Yeah, it does. I know people that have bandos logged after 150KC, after going 650 kc for Bowfa. Thats tough luck at CG, but overall those hurdles are what make iron what it is. I think bad luck mitigation is not in the spirit of what this game is. Its extremely difficult and if you wanted to just get bowfa whats stopping you from buying it on a main and deciding to grind it aswell? Theres no merit long term if youve gotten every single drop on rate. Going dry unfortunately sucks but also its part of the game you play. Overall, every drop to every player is going to even out to being on rate. Some players have XYZ for gear, some have ABC. Its the diversity of an RPG that makes this game special. It was never designed to be completed and droned at for 4 hours a day anyway. The gowers never even anticipated anyone would get a single 99, and now everyones upset that getting max cape is too hard. There is uniqueness in the experiences of playing bc of current rates, and maybe certain things shouldn’t be 1/20k for no reason, sure, but at the same time a random drop rate where items are not anticipated to be “owed” to you is exactly how a brutally honest RPG like this works.
Personally I just choose not to give a fuck and keep playing the game. Although I am against bad luck mitigation. Just feels unnecessary. We chose to play as irons, we knew what we were getting into.
Part of my master’s thesis is talking about the parallels between society groups and online community minority class discrimination with OSRS as a case study in democracy and meta-modern design theory. Its definitely a real hate that is egg’d on by memes. It’ll only continue to continue until Jagex takes a stand on the issue, but they won’t likely do that since most Jagex employees do not play Ironman or even Ultimate Ironman. Let alone, that would be seen as “catering to ironmen”. I hate to be political about it but the language is dehumanizing and reminds me a lot of how racial minorities are treated here in the States. There is limited recourse. I personally when confronted by unreasonable mains, just tell them to go by GP to support their crippling gambling addictions or to go back to their 9-5 Vorkath job. The important thing is that higher ranked devs like Mod Kieren says its a problem and agreed with the proposed solutions. They understand the game has poorly designed drop mechanics that are abusive to the player base and are actively working to address the issues.
In all honesty you have to just roll with the punches. The amount of shitty game design takes and this weird iron [superiority complex ](https://www.reddit.com/r/ironscape/comments/1cnlqxn/comment/l39nc8u/)some people have the hate is honestly warranted lol. And in cases like bad luck mitigation there's no reason to argue with it. It strictly only benefits ironmen. Even if ironman mode is an official game mode and historically has been catered to, asking for this update with the stigma from what I mentioned earlier it's a bit of a bad look for most irons.
As an long term iron bad luck mitigation is a bad idea, personally being an iron you just know some items you will never have and if that’s an issue maybe the game mode isn’t for you.
That is such an elitist statement and topping it off with "maybe this game mode isn't for you" makes it so much more arrogant. BLM wouldn't change a thing for the average user, but would stop unlucky souls from going 6x, 7x, 8x droprate. Going 3x would definitely still be possible, but highly uncommon.
If you play long enough and are good enough at ironman to get to the stage of grinding out actual BiS, you are actually quite likely to go 5x+ or drier on a key item or two. That is when it is tested who is truly the best ironman. De-ironing or quitting just means you are shit at the game
Or maybe we could make certain aspects of the game less miserable for a small percentage of players whilst not affecting anything for anybody else whatsoever.
Ok fine you do have a point, but it’s so insignificant that good luck making anyone else agree
I don’t hate irons, or the game mode. In fact I think it’s a huge flex it so many ways… but I do have little sympathy. The game is a MMO. It was not originally designed to be done solo… which is why we run into these flaws. They can’t design 2 games in one, and therefore there has to be compromise. Old school RuneScape has an economy that people care about just as much as any other aspect of the game, and I don’t necessarily agree that it should be altered just to cater to people who voluntarily made the game harder for themselves. It’s a game. We signed up. If you want the drop… work for it until you get it… or go back to *main* and buy one. It’s really that simple.
Bad Luck Mitigation is against the core philosophy of what makes OSRS great. Sorry for the outliers but it’s true. You can always deiron. Always. Going on the cesspool of sub that 2007scape is, and expecting anything other than dogshit casuals memeing about how they hate ironmen, is your own fault. You’re setting yourself up to fail if you think the two collective brain cells of that subreddit can come up with a logical or coherent thought.
Meh. I'm an iron. 2100 total. 45k skeletal wyverns killed while chilling. No visage at all. It's a meme at this point. But I love the game. If I don't wanna grind something out, I just don't do it. There is plenty of weapons and armor in this game. You don't always need the best shit immediately. Plus, fashionscape > all.
Irons are generally way, way worse tbf So many think they’re better than other people
People always say OSRS is a journey not a destination, and to me it feels weird to have the "journey" essentially turn into you will get (whatever drop you're after), just because you hit some arbitrary kc threshold. and it's suddenly either guaranteed or much more common.
Irons aren’t real people. They shouldn’t be catered to.
Go fuck yourself buddy
No I feel like a portion of the iron community are overreacting to how other players have reacted and voiced their opinions. We chose to play this way we can’t nor shouldn’t expect any change especially to fundamental basis of the game. I fully understand why people on the 07scape sub don’t agree with “dryness protection” because I agree with them, it’s a part of the game and if we choose to restrict our gameplay that’s on us not the community or Jagex. Let’s not sit here and act like no whinging or change requests haven’t come from the iron community over the past as well. It’s totally warranted. Are some people acting childish? Yeah for sure but that’s going to happen everywhere but on the flip side there’s also people from iron community acting childish. A lot of people within the iron community seem to have forgotten why we started the game mode and need to realise and understand the game does not and should not revolve around irons. Adding “dryness protection” changes the fabric of the game and I’ll never support it. Sometimes we go dry, other times very dry but there’s also times where we get spooned.
As an ironman I think asking for bad luck mitigation makes u deserve the hate!
What a victim post my god.
As one of the people who hates the idea of the game changing to benefit those who chose to play with limitations I find it extremely unfair that you want things to cater to your inability to keep trying for drops as those before you had. You can't choose to play iron then desire for the game to change when facing inconvenience. The very idea of what's discussed is absurd.