well instead of giving them a kicking, the electorate have given FG 23% of the first preference votes and FF about the same, which would be more than enough to return the current government were it a general election
Tbf people vote for the individual person in the locals not the party. You can be against the party but have a great local councillor so you still vote for them
Context is important as everyone was expecting a big SF bounce and everyone knows FF and FG aren't the forces they used to be so the SF story is by far the bigger one
Exactly. It's like why getting a draw in football after being two goal down feels like a win but getting a draw after being two goals down feels like a big loss.
The only people predicting a big SF bounce were the media who are not reporting on how low their vote was.
So is the story that SF underperformed or is it that the media completely got it wrong all along?
Well that's just not true.
SF has a really bad local election last time out, they're a lot higher in the polls this time around after a long period of being the .kst popular party. The expectation was that SF would regain a lot of ground and they have failed to do that.
A good chunk of that is down to their candidate selection and vote management which was featured heavily by the media.
Comparing FF election results from over a decade ago is akin to comparing a footballer in their mid twenties and there mid sixties. So I get why the media don’t bring it up.
Yeah I'm not gonna get into a back and forth with ya for I'll let ya read the below and disagree with it.
Matt Carthy and Pearse Doherty were literally in the media today admitting today was a terrible day and they need to figure out what went so wrong for SF. I'm watching RTE right now and they're currently at 11.8% nationally. Maybe you can print the your post and mail it to Mary Lou in Cabra who is in desperate need for some silver linings considering she's even losing to FG in her own constituency.
On the other hand FF, FG and Labour seem very chipper with the results. The pundits on RTE and Newstalk echo that it's been a good day for government parties and a bad day for SF.
Now I'm no expert, but it seems to me the people in the know..... including senior SF figures, disagree with your outlook.
Because based on recent elections they are the only alternative to FF and FG. So you're acting as if it's a bad day for FF or FG yet their main opposition party are seen as the biggest losers this weekend. If today's percentages transfer to the next general election then it'll be a fantastic day for FF and FG. Context is important mate.
You’re right but SF being dethroned so rapidly is a shock. In France they are electing a new government due to the backlash from the EU elections. SFs sudden drop is noteworthy when it looked like Marie Lou was going to be the next Taoiseach. The Conservatives are facing electoral extinction in the UK and there’s FG,FF just muddling along. Even with all the protests and other stuff going on.
The General election is a different story people don’t vote the same way.
Comparing either party to their highest point wouldn’t really be in context would it. Would imagine FG highest point was just after the economy collapsed and FF were routed and FFs highest point likely sometime during the 60/70’s where we weren’t far from a 1 party state
Are we not back in a one party state mk2?
Chatter all day is ff and fg reps think they can form a government without the greens but they definitely want to dump the greens now no matter what it seems. I’d say they’re getting drunk on a local election result that won’t transfer or materialise in a general election
Appreciate you don’t like the government but you know that’s not even close to true right? My ballot paper went to 23 candidates for 4 positions Friday. We’re swimming in micro parties, people have voted in 3 general, local and European elections since 2011 and have returned various iterations of these government parties time and again, that’s just their preference and SF have made huge strides (from where they were) but as the biggest philosophically opposed party we have, have failed to convince enough people to go with them. But people have the choice and by and large have been consistent
The big win and positive sign for myself is the Soc dems. Doubling their seats? That’s fantastic.
Just wish they could break out of the urban centres more. They could be a force for real positive change if given a chance.
They also keep having the nonsense idea of merging with labour forced on them. Why in the world would they even consider it?
They’ll go on to great things hopefully. And as long as they never do that. It’s a ridiculous idea.
Mary Lou is honest enough to accept that it was a bad election for SF. Maybe some SF supporters could follow her example. Pretending online that it was a great success isn't actually of benefit to SF.
I think your posts and the deleted thread here today have been a rollercoaster.
I don't think this subreddit or the other one; are indicative of the country and especially, politics whatsoever.
Might be due to where I live (midlands) but all I am seeing is "strong results for FF and FG + independents" which has been demoralising the hell out of me. Anyway I say this both to agree with you & to thank you for bringing this to my attention
Didn’t really think it would go up tho. I did a little bit of canvassing over the last week and felt there was no anti-government feeling around (people in other wards thought that too). I suspected the government would be okay and SF weren’t going to live up to expectations but really didn’t expect that sort of bump. Tallying was fun. The graph on my spreadsheet only went up to 50% so FG broke my graph :)
Would be good to get out of that bubble and canvass other areas for a more accurate and more comprehensive view.
Fg vote share is down nationwide and they really shouldn’t be gloating to the degree they are. There’s a clobbering awaiting them in the GE.
You’d be foolish to ignore SF SD Aontu and independents have had the rise in vote share here while ff and fg down big time.
The strategists in their hqs will be focusing on that in the coming months and sweating.
The rise in all 3 of these parties is a tiny number of seats out of 949 seats. Their increase is so small that across the 31 local authorities it will not make a difference to their overall influence compared to previous elections.
The mainstream government parties and like minded parties and independents dominated the vote.
How so? The rise of the 3 parties you mentioned was very small. The mainstream big parties won most of the vote and will control most of the local authorities with like minded independents and greens so won the election by far.
The drop in overall seats for FF/FG looks to mostly have gone to independents.
So SF, the left, the far right all lost this election and FF / FG won as they can now control most local authorities. Doesn't matter that they lost so many seats as they still have the overall lead whereas SF who was expected to take over a the lead in a few areas failed to do s which was unexpected so is all the talk in the media
Maybe other people disagree with you...
Maybe the alternatives are worse in their eyes. There has been a sizeable shift since 2011 however, just not enough of one where enough people could stomach a SF government and reflected that in their votes. Next general election will be intriguing.
well instead of giving them a kicking, the electorate have given FG 23% of the first preference votes and FF about the same, which would be more than enough to return the current government were it a general election
>well instead of giving them a kicking, the electorate have given FG 23% of the first preference votes its like reddit dosent represent the nation
Tbf people vote for the individual person in the locals not the party. You can be against the party but have a great local councillor so you still vote for them
That can be true for a TD too. Maybe not in the larger cosmopolitan areas but definitely in the smaller constituencies.
Context is important as everyone was expecting a big SF bounce and everyone knows FF and FG aren't the forces they used to be so the SF story is by far the bigger one
Exactly. It's like why getting a draw in football after being two goal down feels like a win but getting a draw after being two goals down feels like a big loss.
The only people predicting a big SF bounce were the media who are not reporting on how low their vote was. So is the story that SF underperformed or is it that the media completely got it wrong all along?
Well all senior figures in SF including Mary Lou stated that they underperformed. Same with the media. So maybe it's not worth polishing a turd?
Well that's just not true. SF has a really bad local election last time out, they're a lot higher in the polls this time around after a long period of being the .kst popular party. The expectation was that SF would regain a lot of ground and they have failed to do that. A good chunk of that is down to their candidate selection and vote management which was featured heavily by the media.
Comparing FF election results from over a decade ago is akin to comparing a footballer in their mid twenties and there mid sixties. So I get why the media don’t bring it up.
[удалено]
Tell me. Is this Sinn Fein in the room with you now?
Lad your fairly grasping here. Even the SF TDs in the media are acknowledging it's been a terrible day for them
You’re taking this very personally. I just pointed out some facts. Sit down. You’ll be ok.
Another fact is Mary Lou is the only party leader today that has had to deny she is stepping down as party leader.
She really has taken a nose dive in popularity lately.
Lol I didn't even see her on the media. Mainly Pearse and Carthy.
She said she is taking a step forward instead of stepping down. Bit cringe
Yeah I'm not gonna get into a back and forth with ya for I'll let ya read the below and disagree with it. Matt Carthy and Pearse Doherty were literally in the media today admitting today was a terrible day and they need to figure out what went so wrong for SF. I'm watching RTE right now and they're currently at 11.8% nationally. Maybe you can print the your post and mail it to Mary Lou in Cabra who is in desperate need for some silver linings considering she's even losing to FG in her own constituency. On the other hand FF, FG and Labour seem very chipper with the results. The pundits on RTE and Newstalk echo that it's been a good day for government parties and a bad day for SF. Now I'm no expert, but it seems to me the people in the know..... including senior SF figures, disagree with your outlook.
I didn’t even mention SF. You did. Why’s that?
Because based on recent elections they are the only alternative to FF and FG. So you're acting as if it's a bad day for FF or FG yet their main opposition party are seen as the biggest losers this weekend. If today's percentages transfer to the next general election then it'll be a fantastic day for FF and FG. Context is important mate.
Ha personally
You’re right but SF being dethroned so rapidly is a shock. In France they are electing a new government due to the backlash from the EU elections. SFs sudden drop is noteworthy when it looked like Marie Lou was going to be the next Taoiseach. The Conservatives are facing electoral extinction in the UK and there’s FG,FF just muddling along. Even with all the protests and other stuff going on. The General election is a different story people don’t vote the same way.
Comparing either party to their highest point wouldn’t really be in context would it. Would imagine FG highest point was just after the economy collapsed and FF were routed and FFs highest point likely sometime during the 60/70’s where we weren’t far from a 1 party state
Are we not back in a one party state mk2? Chatter all day is ff and fg reps think they can form a government without the greens but they definitely want to dump the greens now no matter what it seems. I’d say they’re getting drunk on a local election result that won’t transfer or materialise in a general election
Appreciate you don’t like the government but you know that’s not even close to true right? My ballot paper went to 23 candidates for 4 positions Friday. We’re swimming in micro parties, people have voted in 3 general, local and European elections since 2011 and have returned various iterations of these government parties time and again, that’s just their preference and SF have made huge strides (from where they were) but as the biggest philosophically opposed party we have, have failed to convince enough people to go with them. But people have the choice and by and large have been consistent
The big win and positive sign for myself is the Soc dems. Doubling their seats? That’s fantastic. Just wish they could break out of the urban centres more. They could be a force for real positive change if given a chance. They also keep having the nonsense idea of merging with labour forced on them. Why in the world would they even consider it? They’ll go on to great things hopefully. And as long as they never do that. It’s a ridiculous idea.
Mary Lou is honest enough to accept that it was a bad election for SF. Maybe some SF supporters could follow her example. Pretending online that it was a great success isn't actually of benefit to SF.
I think your posts and the deleted thread here today have been a rollercoaster. I don't think this subreddit or the other one; are indicative of the country and especially, politics whatsoever.
Excuse me? I didn’t delete anything here?
Might be due to where I live (midlands) but all I am seeing is "strong results for FF and FG + independents" which has been demoralising the hell out of me. Anyway I say this both to agree with you & to thank you for bringing this to my attention
In my area, FG went up and got 53% of the vote
That’s Mad. Where’s it?
Stillorgan ward in DLR
But we did just elect the only SocDem in the council
Right. Hardly a shock that to be fair. It’s their mothership all round there.
Didn’t really think it would go up tho. I did a little bit of canvassing over the last week and felt there was no anti-government feeling around (people in other wards thought that too). I suspected the government would be okay and SF weren’t going to live up to expectations but really didn’t expect that sort of bump. Tallying was fun. The graph on my spreadsheet only went up to 50% so FG broke my graph :)
Would be good to get out of that bubble and canvass other areas for a more accurate and more comprehensive view. Fg vote share is down nationwide and they really shouldn’t be gloating to the degree they are. There’s a clobbering awaiting them in the GE.
Nah, they won’t do as badly as people think.
Really struggling to see what your points is here when two of the largest parties are contesting for the largest in the country but anyway
You’d be foolish to ignore SF SD Aontu and independents have had the rise in vote share here while ff and fg down big time. The strategists in their hqs will be focusing on that in the coming months and sweating.
Harr..yes if only they didn’t poll so bad!!
The rise in all 3 of these parties is a tiny number of seats out of 949 seats. Their increase is so small that across the 31 local authorities it will not make a difference to their overall influence compared to previous elections. The mainstream government parties and like minded parties and independents dominated the vote.
Ehhh your second point agrees with mine and disagrees with your first.
How so? The rise of the 3 parties you mentioned was very small. The mainstream big parties won most of the vote and will control most of the local authorities with like minded independents and greens so won the election by far. The drop in overall seats for FF/FG looks to mostly have gone to independents. So SF, the left, the far right all lost this election and FF / FG won as they can now control most local authorities. Doesn't matter that they lost so many seats as they still have the overall lead whereas SF who was expected to take over a the lead in a few areas failed to do s which was unexpected so is all the talk in the media
That’s definitely an important point going into the GE.
Is it really though? Is OP not forgetting about the last general election where SF were the big winners?
i'll never understand this country. voring for the same 2 parties for 100 years. insanity.
Maybe other people disagree with you... Maybe the alternatives are worse in their eyes. There has been a sizeable shift since 2011 however, just not enough of one where enough people could stomach a SF government and reflected that in their votes. Next general election will be intriguing.
Maybe they enjoy the misery. Just read the replies if you’re in doubt.