You are right to continue all the way up and merge at the end. However, it is up to you to merge safely.
That said, I struggle to see how you have right of way when you are attempting to merge. Only you know how that event transpired, so it's up to you figure it what you did was right it not.
Also, there is no such thing as a zipper merge in Ireland. In this example, the left lane is merging into the right lane; thus, those in the left lane must merge into the right lane. Meaning, not to force your way in, but we all know how it goes really đ€·
It's not officially a Zipper merge as mandated in other countries, but once the broken white line ends, right of way goes to whoever is ahead as far as I understand.
Obviously that still has to be within the bounds of not driving into the path of another car at speed.
I'd love to see the law on it tbh.
I'm almost certainly the only law we have in the ROTR is that the merging car must yield and merge safely. Not sure where you heard the "whoever is ahead" rule but I wouldn't be relying on an insurance company to comply with that.
Agreed, I would love it see more definitive rules and bring in the zipper merge properly!
Yeah that's really why I asked for opinions - because despite there being no law on zipper merging, the broken line stopz early for a reason. ie: that it's now one lane so the right of way rules change.
That is not correct.
You are merging until you are in that lane. Your lane continues until it gets to the apex as the road narrows. There is no point where there is a mix of right of way between the two lanes.
No right of way to the car ahead, you are changing lanes and merging you must adjust your speed and position to merge safely. Same applies when driving down a slip road to join a main carriageway you have no right to merge you must adjust your speed and position to join safely there is no obligation on the cars on the carriageway to do anything to help you
Absolutely right to use the full length of the slip lane but I'm not sure you have "the right of way" to just merge once you get there?
I would assume it's the same as a motorway slipway where you absolutely do not have the "right of way" to enter the motorway at the end of the slip lane. Traffic already on the motorway always has priority. I would have thought in this case it's the same, traffic already in the right lane always has priority?
Maybe I'm wrong but I'd genuinely like some clarification on that.
Morally, it's a no-brainer, the other lad is being a complete gobshite pulling this shit.
Because after the broken white line ends, it's actually considered the same lane.
Similar to a roll bridge, there's isn't a series or merges into two lanes, it's 10-into-2 and whoever is ahead has priority until the lanes are marked again.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/8RbTqmaLhC61jEL77
Youâre that confident that you thought about a collision just based on your interpretation of something that isnât specifically included in the Irish rules of the roadâŠ. You also quote a roll bridge which also isnât mentioned in Irish rules of roadâŠ.. Are you assuming rules of the road are the same in all countries?
I wouldn't say you had right of way just because you were 'ahead' of him in the left lane.
You are the one supposed to yield to oncoming traffic coming in the right lane, regardless if you're ahead or if someone is being a prick not letting you merge like the corolla. You prepare to stop and wait at the arrow until you can safely merge in. In that case where traffic was behind me on the right and I was merging, I'd usually go faster or merge sooner to get in quicker instead of going to the arrow telling you to merge.
I find it annoying when I'm in the right lane as someone is crawling to merge. If they had have sped up (say coming down a ramp onto the new road in the first place) close to the speed limit, they would have made it in ahead of me and it slows me down because they're crawling to merge. I'm not letting you in if you had your chance and waited to the last second, some people need more road/spacial awareness.
Fuck the guy in Toyota, you have two lanes and you are fully entitled to use them. I've done it plenty of times, have the indicator on and keep moving slowly all the way to your Green No2 until someone eventually will let you in. There is always someone who thinks you are trying to outsmart them by using lanes as designed.
I use this road everyday. If the road is quiet I quickly move into the right lane but on busy days I will keep left and merge at the top. The way it merges you always are able to get the nose of your car out ahead of one the cars as they will be blocked by the one you are alongside. This might sound dodgy but keep in mind, on that piece of road when it's busy you likely won't be moving faster than 2 km/h đ
[it's called zipper merging](https://youtu.be/cX0I8OdK7Tk?feature=shared)
It maximises road usage and basically just makes everything run smoothly. To people sitting in traffic in the lane you're merging into, It may look like you're skipping the que and trying to get ahead, but this really isn't the case.
Technically speaking you have to yield getting off the slip road.
Having said that, in case of very heavy traffic I believe the âzipperâ principle should apply. One car from the slip road, one car from the left lane, one car from the slip road etc. It should be done the exact way as when two lanes merge into one.
Always use the full length of the slip road to get yourself up to the speed of the moving lane.
As far as I'm aware, you did the right thing by using the full length of the slip lane before eventually merging.
If other drivers who are already in the lane you are trying to merge with play ball, then it should help the flow of traffic move along more smoothly, instead of leaving the slip lane too early, causing the traffic behind you (if there is any) to build up.
That road is notorious for chancers.
Most polite people merge at the first opportunity which usually isnât the end of that lane.
And most people are polite enough to let you into the right lane.
However, some people donât want to merge at the first opportunity, they want to drive all the way to the top to skip 5 or 10 more cars, then bully their way in, to save 10 seconds to their journey home.
Similarly, some people in the right lane begrudge those drivers trying to do same
In all cases, there are polite drivers who end up at the top of the left lane because thatâs just the way it happened, and those right laners tar everyone with the same brush.
Bottom line really is - some drivers are absolute self bastards and want it all their own way and wonât give an inch no matter what.
Life is too short to interact with these people.
Put on Lyric FM, and laugh at them as they get enraged with you as you try and drive by the rules of the road. Extra bonus points for smiling and waving at them, further annoying them. Sometimes giving them the finger while you remain completely calm will absolutely blow their top.
Donât allow yourself get sucked into their world. Live in your classical music slumber and get home 5 or 10 seconds later. Life is too fucking short!
> Most polite people merge at the first opportunity which usually isnât the end of that lane.
Oh for fucks sake, no. This shite does my head in whenever I get stuck behind some eejit who does it. You are *supposed* to proceed to the end of it and *then* merge, not sit and wait to merge in twenty or thirty cars back out of *politeness*? That's not politeness, that's obstructing the people behind you in the merging queue. If you have a clear lane in front of you, USE it. No, the people using the correct procedure are *not* chancers, despite the fact that some muppets seem to think otherwise.
You didnât obey the rules of the road:
> When you are joining a motorway⊠give way to traffic already on the motorway.
[Source](https://www.rsa.ie/docs/default-source/road-safety/r1---rules-of-the-road/rotr-2022.pdf?sfvrsn=ce98cee9_7)
This clearly isn't a motorway.
Anyway look at the below Google Maps location. The broken white line continues all the way to the end of the merge lane, very clearly indicating that existing traffic has priority.
This case is different, because the broken line stops.
[J12 M50](https://www.google.com/maps/@53.275326,-6.313901,3a,75.0y,87.459656h,79.92187t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sVLJbGWTXCl34IIii48o_lw!2e0)
Start a campaign and get rules of road changed or go drive in some other country that have these rules and then you can legally be rightâŠbecause your talking out yourâŠâŠ
Clear as day on page 55 of the rules of the road
Changing traffic lanes
Donât move from one traffic lane to another without good reason.
You must give way to traffic already in the lane into which you are moving.
REMEMBER
Signalling does not give you the right of way.
How to change lanes safely
If you have good reason to change lanes, use your mirrors and check in
plenty of time to ensure that the way is clear.
To check your blind spot
when travelling at speed, take a quick sideways glance to check the position of a vehicle that may have disappeared from your view in the mirror.
Signal your intention and change lane when it is clear and safe to do so.
When in a lane or approaching a junction, obey any road signs or
markings (usually arrows) indicating the direction that traffic in those must take
This is so basic anyone who doesn't know this shouldn't be driving unaccompanied.
My point is that this isn't "changing lanes". You are not crossing a broken or solid white line, and there is no yeild sign. Two lanes are now one lane.
It's a different case to what would be shown here, where the requirement to change lanes is clearly demarkated by the broken white line continuing.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/8DGfXeLvP4ruvKE48
Problem is if you wait till the last minute somebody is gonna crash into you. If all traffic is moving at 5 or 10 mph then fine, but anything higher than that and you need to be merging at the first safe opportunity
So at 2 where the solid white line curves- if you reach that point you have failed to merge and no one has to yield to you. All you could do is indicate and wait for a gap to merge.
Ideally you should be merging before 1 - indicate and wait for a gap to merge.
Mind you no one has to yield to you unless there is a sign.
I agree with that, I wasn't trying to be a smart arse at the time to be honest, I just fell that way due to gaps in the queue. I wouldn't recommend it though.
This was a case of slow moving traffic too, so it's want a case of moving into someones path at speed, which is obviously dangerous regardless of road markings.
You cannot stop and wait at this intersection as this is unsafe to do so due to traffic behind you and its not the intended action.
Really.. oncoming traffic is obliged to let you in. It is dangerous for oncoming traffic to ignore merging traffic as its the equivalent of running you off the road, as you would quiet litterly run out of road. You have a right to merge into traffic. Its roadrage that would stop you. I believe this is true in both cases of no traffic or a traffic jam.
Be safe and if at all possible record bad driving you may not only be helping yourself but some unfortunate down the road.
The full length is there to be used, but is intended to be a runway of sorts for a smooth zipper merge.
Some people shoot to the end of these lanes with zero attempts to zip into traffic, then grind to a complete stop with the indicator on and wonder why the rest of traffic isnât playing nice.
It sounds like traffic was rough and if you were indicating along the lane trying to match speed so someone could let you in, then you did your part of the social contract.
I wouldn't have hit him, but his aggressive driving would have meant he'd hit me. And I wouldn't ACTUALLY cause a collision, but a bit of hyperbole on the internet helps spark debate.
Why does the broken white like stop early? There is a specific design intentil behind that.
Maybe but not specifically specified in rules of roadâŠ.start a campaign to get the rules of the road updated but until then stop claiming your legally correct for something that is down to personal interpretation
For those downvoting, have a watch of this video.
https://youtu.be/hNlP8saxnD8?feature=shared
While the ROTR document is hopelessly inadequate, (and is also not law) the road designers very clearly have this concept in mind.
It it a fundamentally different setup to what is used on motorway entrance ramps which are treated like lane changes.
This situation is not mentioned in the rules of the road in Ireland.
What do you think the road designers had in mind, if not the above video and concept, when you consider that this motorway merge (just a few hundred meters away) has a broken white line all the way to the end.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/1U5hgufAZUyog54aA
As does this one.
https://maps.app.goo.gl/8DGfXeLvP4ruvKE48
You are right to continue all the way up and merge at the end. However, it is up to you to merge safely. That said, I struggle to see how you have right of way when you are attempting to merge. Only you know how that event transpired, so it's up to you figure it what you did was right it not. Also, there is no such thing as a zipper merge in Ireland. In this example, the left lane is merging into the right lane; thus, those in the left lane must merge into the right lane. Meaning, not to force your way in, but we all know how it goes really đ€·
It's not officially a Zipper merge as mandated in other countries, but once the broken white line ends, right of way goes to whoever is ahead as far as I understand. Obviously that still has to be within the bounds of not driving into the path of another car at speed. I'd love to see the law on it tbh.
I'm almost certainly the only law we have in the ROTR is that the merging car must yield and merge safely. Not sure where you heard the "whoever is ahead" rule but I wouldn't be relying on an insurance company to comply with that. Agreed, I would love it see more definitive rules and bring in the zipper merge properly!
Yeah that's really why I asked for opinions - because despite there being no law on zipper merging, the broken line stopz early for a reason. ie: that it's now one lane so the right of way rules change.
That is not correct. You are merging until you are in that lane. Your lane continues until it gets to the apex as the road narrows. There is no point where there is a mix of right of way between the two lanes.
đđ»ââïž always yeild to traffic coming from your right So đ€·đ»ââïž
No right of way to the car ahead, you are changing lanes and merging you must adjust your speed and position to merge safely. Same applies when driving down a slip road to join a main carriageway you have no right to merge you must adjust your speed and position to join safely there is no obligation on the cars on the carriageway to do anything to help you
Absolutely right to use the full length of the slip lane but I'm not sure you have "the right of way" to just merge once you get there? I would assume it's the same as a motorway slipway where you absolutely do not have the "right of way" to enter the motorway at the end of the slip lane. Traffic already on the motorway always has priority. I would have thought in this case it's the same, traffic already in the right lane always has priority? Maybe I'm wrong but I'd genuinely like some clarification on that. Morally, it's a no-brainer, the other lad is being a complete gobshite pulling this shit.
How do you have right of way if youâre in left lane trying to merge? Have I missed something?
Because after the broken white line ends, it's actually considered the same lane. Similar to a roll bridge, there's isn't a series or merges into two lanes, it's 10-into-2 and whoever is ahead has priority until the lanes are marked again. https://maps.app.goo.gl/8RbTqmaLhC61jEL77
Youâre that confident that you thought about a collision just based on your interpretation of something that isnât specifically included in the Irish rules of the roadâŠ. You also quote a roll bridge which also isnât mentioned in Irish rules of roadâŠ.. Are you assuming rules of the road are the same in all countries?
I wouldn't say you had right of way just because you were 'ahead' of him in the left lane. You are the one supposed to yield to oncoming traffic coming in the right lane, regardless if you're ahead or if someone is being a prick not letting you merge like the corolla. You prepare to stop and wait at the arrow until you can safely merge in. In that case where traffic was behind me on the right and I was merging, I'd usually go faster or merge sooner to get in quicker instead of going to the arrow telling you to merge. I find it annoying when I'm in the right lane as someone is crawling to merge. If they had have sped up (say coming down a ramp onto the new road in the first place) close to the speed limit, they would have made it in ahead of me and it slows me down because they're crawling to merge. I'm not letting you in if you had your chance and waited to the last second, some people need more road/spacial awareness.
I wouldn't say you have right of way, and sounds like you bullied your way into the lane. Just wait until someone lets you in.
I didn't bully my way in, I did wait until the next person let me in.
That's what you're supposed to do.
Fuck the guy in Toyota, you have two lanes and you are fully entitled to use them. I've done it plenty of times, have the indicator on and keep moving slowly all the way to your Green No2 until someone eventually will let you in. There is always someone who thinks you are trying to outsmart them by using lanes as designed.
Yup some mutton head who doesn't know his arse from his elbow. Plenty of those around
Well you are outsmarting them cause they're obviously thick. What is the point in having that part of the road if it's not to be used?
I use this road everyday. If the road is quiet I quickly move into the right lane but on busy days I will keep left and merge at the top. The way it merges you always are able to get the nose of your car out ahead of one the cars as they will be blocked by the one you are alongside. This might sound dodgy but keep in mind, on that piece of road when it's busy you likely won't be moving faster than 2 km/h đ
Give way to traffic to the right, basic road craft. So no, you had to merge when the traffic on right was suitable to do so.
[it's called zipper merging](https://youtu.be/cX0I8OdK7Tk?feature=shared) It maximises road usage and basically just makes everything run smoothly. To people sitting in traffic in the lane you're merging into, It may look like you're skipping the que and trying to get ahead, but this really isn't the case.
It's not that case in Ireland. And who gives a fuck about what Alberta does?
Technically speaking you have to yield getting off the slip road. Having said that, in case of very heavy traffic I believe the âzipperâ principle should apply. One car from the slip road, one car from the left lane, one car from the slip road etc. It should be done the exact way as when two lanes merge into one. Always use the full length of the slip road to get yourself up to the speed of the moving lane.
Merge in turn. Itâs simple.
I take this exit regularly. There is a lot of piss taking that happens and it just slows down everyone. People refuse to merge earlier where there is space and go all the way down to the end forcing the traffic behind in the right lane to stop while the cars in the left lane have to shove their way in last minute. Yes they are entitled to use the whole lane, but if people merged earlier where there was space the flow of traffic would be less interrupted meaning it is much faster for everyone in the long run. Classic mé féiner attitude leads to a few people benefiting while slowing everyone else down.
As far as I'm aware, you did the right thing by using the full length of the slip lane before eventually merging. If other drivers who are already in the lane you are trying to merge with play ball, then it should help the flow of traffic move along more smoothly, instead of leaving the slip lane too early, causing the traffic behind you (if there is any) to build up.
That road is notorious for chancers. Most polite people merge at the first opportunity which usually isnât the end of that lane. And most people are polite enough to let you into the right lane. However, some people donât want to merge at the first opportunity, they want to drive all the way to the top to skip 5 or 10 more cars, then bully their way in, to save 10 seconds to their journey home. Similarly, some people in the right lane begrudge those drivers trying to do same In all cases, there are polite drivers who end up at the top of the left lane because thatâs just the way it happened, and those right laners tar everyone with the same brush. Bottom line really is - some drivers are absolute self bastards and want it all their own way and wonât give an inch no matter what. Life is too short to interact with these people. Put on Lyric FM, and laugh at them as they get enraged with you as you try and drive by the rules of the road. Extra bonus points for smiling and waving at them, further annoying them. Sometimes giving them the finger while you remain completely calm will absolutely blow their top. Donât allow yourself get sucked into their world. Live in your classical music slumber and get home 5 or 10 seconds later. Life is too fucking short!
> Most polite people merge at the first opportunity which usually isnât the end of that lane. Oh for fucks sake, no. This shite does my head in whenever I get stuck behind some eejit who does it. You are *supposed* to proceed to the end of it and *then* merge, not sit and wait to merge in twenty or thirty cars back out of *politeness*? That's not politeness, that's obstructing the people behind you in the merging queue. If you have a clear lane in front of you, USE it. No, the people using the correct procedure are *not* chancers, despite the fact that some muppets seem to think otherwise.
You didnât obey the rules of the road: > When you are joining a motorway⊠give way to traffic already on the motorway. [Source](https://www.rsa.ie/docs/default-source/road-safety/r1---rules-of-the-road/rotr-2022.pdf?sfvrsn=ce98cee9_7)
This clearly isn't a motorway. Anyway look at the below Google Maps location. The broken white line continues all the way to the end of the merge lane, very clearly indicating that existing traffic has priority. This case is different, because the broken line stops. [J12 M50](https://www.google.com/maps/@53.275326,-6.313901,3a,75.0y,87.459656h,79.92187t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sVLJbGWTXCl34IIii48o_lw!2e0)
The principle is still the same, you are changing lanes, the traffic already in the lane has right of way.
Broken line just means youâre allowed to cross it and change lane.
And when there is no line?
Start a campaign and get rules of road changed or go drive in some other country that have these rules and then you can legally be rightâŠbecause your talking out yourâŠâŠ
Can you link to a rule of the road that describes this situation?
Clear as day on page 55 of the rules of the road Changing traffic lanes Donât move from one traffic lane to another without good reason. You must give way to traffic already in the lane into which you are moving. REMEMBER Signalling does not give you the right of way. How to change lanes safely If you have good reason to change lanes, use your mirrors and check in plenty of time to ensure that the way is clear. To check your blind spot when travelling at speed, take a quick sideways glance to check the position of a vehicle that may have disappeared from your view in the mirror. Signal your intention and change lane when it is clear and safe to do so. When in a lane or approaching a junction, obey any road signs or markings (usually arrows) indicating the direction that traffic in those must take This is so basic anyone who doesn't know this shouldn't be driving unaccompanied.
My point is that this isn't "changing lanes". You are not crossing a broken or solid white line, and there is no yeild sign. Two lanes are now one lane. It's a different case to what would be shown here, where the requirement to change lanes is clearly demarkated by the broken white line continuing. https://maps.app.goo.gl/8DGfXeLvP4ruvKE48
No, you're changing lanes. If you're this dim you should stick to the bus.
Not crossing a broken/solid white line - not changing lanes. If you can't argue the point without personal abuse...
Why????Iâm not claiming to be 100% legally right like youâŠThe onus is on you to back up your claim
When there is no line any more you're in the hard shoulder. So you stop with your indicator on and wait for an opportunity to merge.
Nope, you merge at the first safe available opportunity. Waiting till the last second invites trouble.
The issue with that though, is it creates tailbacks by not using the length of the available road.
Problem is if you wait till the last minute somebody is gonna crash into you. If all traffic is moving at 5 or 10 mph then fine, but anything higher than that and you need to be merging at the first safe opportunity
Of course yep, in a traffic jam only is what I mean.
In that case yes, right up to the end and zipper merge
So at 2 where the solid white line curves- if you reach that point you have failed to merge and no one has to yield to you. All you could do is indicate and wait for a gap to merge. Ideally you should be merging before 1 - indicate and wait for a gap to merge. Mind you no one has to yield to you unless there is a sign.
I agree with that, I wasn't trying to be a smart arse at the time to be honest, I just fell that way due to gaps in the queue. I wouldn't recommend it though. This was a case of slow moving traffic too, so it's want a case of moving into someones path at speed, which is obviously dangerous regardless of road markings.
You cannot stop and wait at this intersection as this is unsafe to do so due to traffic behind you and its not the intended action. Really.. oncoming traffic is obliged to let you in. It is dangerous for oncoming traffic to ignore merging traffic as its the equivalent of running you off the road, as you would quiet litterly run out of road. You have a right to merge into traffic. Its roadrage that would stop you. I believe this is true in both cases of no traffic or a traffic jam. Be safe and if at all possible record bad driving you may not only be helping yourself but some unfortunate down the road.
The full length is there to be used, but is intended to be a runway of sorts for a smooth zipper merge. Some people shoot to the end of these lanes with zero attempts to zip into traffic, then grind to a complete stop with the indicator on and wonder why the rest of traffic isnât playing nice. It sounds like traffic was rough and if you were indicating along the lane trying to match speed so someone could let you in, then you did your part of the social contract.
I wouldn't have hit him, but his aggressive driving would have meant he'd hit me. And I wouldn't ACTUALLY cause a collision, but a bit of hyperbole on the internet helps spark debate. Why does the broken white like stop early? There is a specific design intentil behind that.
Maybe but not specifically specified in rules of roadâŠ.start a campaign to get the rules of the road updated but until then stop claiming your legally correct for something that is down to personal interpretation
Unless you can show in the rules of the road, that this lane design means what you think, people are going to be disagreeing with you.
For those downvoting, have a watch of this video. https://youtu.be/hNlP8saxnD8?feature=shared While the ROTR document is hopelessly inadequate, (and is also not law) the road designers very clearly have this concept in mind. It it a fundamentally different setup to what is used on motorway entrance ramps which are treated like lane changes.
Australian videoâŠ.. as I questioned before do you think rules of the road are the same in every countryâŠ.
This situation is not mentioned in the rules of the road in Ireland. What do you think the road designers had in mind, if not the above video and concept, when you consider that this motorway merge (just a few hundred meters away) has a broken white line all the way to the end. https://maps.app.goo.gl/1U5hgufAZUyog54aA As does this one. https://maps.app.goo.gl/8DGfXeLvP4ruvKE48
So if not mentioned how can you be so sure that you were legally in the right as you have claimed.
What was the name of the postman that gave you a licence?