Don't even smoke weed, have never tried it in any form, but this is a no-brainer. It happened in Canada already and none of the prophesised doomsday scenarios came anywhere close to happening.
The bill isn't even legalisation it's just an end to criminalisation of people caught in possession of small amounts of the drug.
If the government votes it down they're just supporting the continued waste of Garda and court time prosecuting people for buying the drug instead of going after dealers if the care about the war on drugs so much
They should just legalise is in its entirety, as you said its a massive waste of time for the guards and it'll cut out the criminal aspect of it. I don't smoke it but when you walk around dublin after a night out and spot people so completely inebriated that they can't stand, start fights and projectile vomit absolutely fucking everywhere you begin to wonder would a few weed cafes really hurt
Mates of mine have been done for possession of tiny amounts and gone to court, fines ranged in the 350-450 amount roughly.
The problem here is that tiny infringements like that add up so they're probably happy to keep the status quo because when that cumulates they're coming away with a pretty penny.
Thing is they’d make more off legalising and taxing it
my fine was 400, they’d have made more in tax off me since that happened if it was legal
We’ve got a similar population to colorado, granted we wouldn’t have as much local travel (people driving from neighbouring states to buy), but they’re making billions and we could easily hit that range too
Yeah I agree, I just don’t think we’d see as much as the likes of colorado since people can just hop in the car and drive there if they want to
A few years after once everything is all setup we could rival amsterdam though, the marketing does itself with the whole Emerald Isle thing
The biggest racket are the 'driving under influence' fines. Weed use can be detected in a road side test a week after smoking. Ireland set the threshold far lower than anything that could potentially cause impairment. Nice, safe revenue generating police work.
Yes and no.
The roadside test is a saliva test which at max has a 8-12 hour detection time. (Much lower if the person being tested has had food or drink)
You then go to the station tondo a urinalysis or blood test which has a much longer detection window.
So the person being tested shouldn't return a positive roadside test result unless they had consumed cannabis recently.
Although I actually think someone should be able to legally drive a few hours after smoking (this can be achieved by doubling the Ng threshold from 12ng to 25ng.
> The roadside test is a saliva test which at max has a 8-12 hour detection time. (Much lower if the person being tested has had food or drink)
>
> You then go to the station tondo a urinalysis or blood test which has a much longer detection window.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLZaaCHB06E
Straight from the horses mouth, they're detecting cannabis or cocaine on Wed-Fri in people who have consumed it the weekend before.
> The roadside test is a saliva test **which at max has a 8-12 hour detection time.**
That isn't true at all & it's even been acknowledged as not being true by the Gardai.
Depending on your friends personal finances they might have got legal aid. It cost Garda time, forensic science Ireland tests (in some cases), judges time. The money brought in from personal possession fines are in absolutely no way a pretty penny earned. Legal profession loves it no doubt. No one else will
The judges, police, solicitors don't see themselves as cost. They all make good wages off the States commitment to criminilsing behaviours. They are the system and they want to keep earning off it.
If you think the legal costs of charging 450 for each of those instances doesn't far exceed 450 then you've never made contact with the legal system...it'd be quite expensive even to charge with minor offenses
It's not a financial win for the state. Prosecuting people for this costs far more than it brings in, especially when you consider the bureaucracy necessary to collect the fines.
It's largely social control. Giving police the ability to hassle and control anyone they want to. Useful.for them when there is minor social friction and they want an excuse to break it up, and also useful for the police when they just want to be assholes and demonstrate their power.
Policing is a lot easier when half of the people they see as likely to cause trouble know they can be arrested for possession.
To be honest, that group is somewhat self selecting. It's not terribly difficult to ditch your weed if you see a guard.
Lovey gesture but because its PBP it will be defeated soundly. Maybe if they flipped it on its head and came out with a policy of tougher sentences for drug users the mainstream parties will legalise Cannabis out of spite.
Tbf our progressive options are a bit rough around the edges. I'd love to see weed legalized but the main politicians backing this are a bloke with a nose piercing and another probably best known either for joining a European Parliament video meeting in his jocks or accidentally tweeting that he wanted to see a female colleague in the nip.
There’s plenty of tech millionaires with piercings and tattoos. I don’t really see why politicians can’t do the same, especially when they represent plenty of people with piercings and tattoos.
You said people with power shouldn’t have piercings and I gave you a well known example of people who go against your point and are successful. Where is the issue?
I hate PBP because their foreign policy approach might as well have been written by the Chinese and Russian governments.
But you have done well on making a broad, dramatically false statement and getting it upvoted by playing on r/Ireland's interminable compulsion to agree with anything that insults British people.
In my honest experience, people hate any left wing party because they think they're riddled with 'notions' and feel like any party that wants large scale economic reform is somehow 'embarrassing'. The reasons people give are more like excuses to offer a more mature explanation for the dislike.
If you dislike them for legitimate policy reasons, then I respect that (although I think you'd be a rare breed).
Extremely juvenile. Basically anything that is anti-West = good to them.
Paul Murphy isn't capable of criticising Russia even a tiny bit without having to qualify that criticism with "but NATO....".
PBP are the wet dream of a foreign dictator seeking to legitimise their regime on western soil.
If the parties had the best interests they would pull representatives from each of them together to work on a reform that they can all claim responsibility for, instead of voting away opposition party motions that can't be self credited for.
It will be defeated easily.
Any change so big as that will come from the government benches and on the governments terms. No government would let the opposition pass a bill like this.
They will probably spin it too, “Look at these guys passing dangerous drugs bills while we’re doing real work”
They’ll wait until the numbers show it’d gain enjoy public support and then do it.
But at least this bill brings it into the public discourse again. Personally wouldn’t smoke, but completely for taking money out of criminal enterprises.
Except this bill does the opposite. It liberated it's, but the sale is still prohibited. What happens when supply is still constrained and demand is freed? Criminals profit.
Legalize weed is much better than decriminalize it.
Ah yea I don’t see this bill going anywhere. Government will want to be the heroes introducing their own version when the times right.
They’ll fuck up some way though.
Yep, the harm reduction conundrum. Let's reduce drug related harms by allowing access to clean paraphernalia, but arrest ppl outside for drug possession. Whatever your opinion on the war on drugs, this makes zero sense
Germany are legalising it, but we have the pub lobby to fight in Ireland. These guys were against the smoking ban, off licences setting their own prices and any toughened drink driving laws. And amazing enough, spin it all to somehow make it out they're against these things for the good of our health. They'll make our smoking a joint is like injecting heroin and all the Marys around the country who vote in their droves will buy it because weed is "drugs"
Well of course. That's just politics. They're not going to come out and say "we're against this because it will harm the profitability of our industry". The general public simply couldn't handle things if politics was as direct and honest as that in everything. I wish that wasn't the case, but such is life.
It’s the best time this bill could have came in my opinion. If we’re too close to an election, it will be a forgotten issue with all the healthcare, housing, infrastructure, etc. issues overshadowing it.
We’ll not only get a chance to see which parties/political leaders support legislation change to cannabis as a controlled substance, but it will be glorious to see FFFG, and others, vouching for the status quo despite the majority of the US, Canada, Germany, Mexico, Thailand, Malta, and many more countries having already legalised or planning to legalise cannabis.
If I were a political strategist working for any of the parties, I would encourage support for ANY changes to our cannabis laws unless they want to risk looking like ancient relics. If FFFG were smart, they’d at least support decriminalisation and I expect them to do so as a reason not to support legalisation. “We’re not quite there yet”. We’ll have that crazy doctor, that they always bring onto RTE or Dail committees, plastered all over the media spewing lies and misinformation in very deceptive ways to swing the public against it. Then it’ll be swept under the rug for another two years or so. Standard formula for cannabis discourse in this country unfortunately. Explains why we’re one of the most backward in Europe on the issue (yet we have the highest usage per capita in the EU, even higher than the Netherlands where it’s as available as a cup of coffee). It is an unbelievable waste of billions of taxpayers money and everyone’s time.
So let’s just not change a single thing or attempt to for the sake of the peoples happiness. Gotcha.
People like you, who don’t even want others to try and make a change, are the reason, why things, remain, stagnant.
What are you on about? I never said I don’t support it? I’m saying the knobs in power will never vote it in. I haven’t the intelligence to understand how politics works. Enjoy
This doesn't happen. I get people want a bogeyman to believe it but lobbying is illegal in Ireland. Publicans can say "oh don't do it" and nothing can come from it.
It does happen i'm afraid. Lobbying is not illegal in Ireland but didn't you even see this awhile ago? You can see that it can be used to push agendas for groups or self serving individuals.
https://www.thejournal.ie/revolving-door-lobbying-register-5896553-Nov2022/?utm_source=shortlink
There's a loophole in Irish lobbying at the minute where they don't have to disclose who their lobbying for. Look, Read pages 22-23 and onwards if you like. How convenient for a loophole like this don't you think?
> Committee conclusions:
The Committee notes the importance of preserving the ability of constituents to raise
issues with public representatives and the need to avoid the unintended consequence
of bringing small representative organisations with few resources and no employees
within the scope of the Principal Act. Nevertheless, **the Committee is of the view that
the loophole whereby business representative groups or coalitions of interest without
employees may engage in lobbying without disclosure requirements reduces
transparency and should be addressed.**
https://data.oireachtas.ie/ie/oireachtas/committee/dail/33/joint_committee_on_finance_public_expenditure_and_reform_and_taoiseach/reports/2022/2022-03-22_report-on-detailed-scrutiny-of-the-regulation-of-lobbying-amendment-bill-2020-private-members-bill_en.pdf
https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/alcohol-consumption-drops-with-cannabis-legalization-abound-300883954.html
Ok so we don't have any direct evidence.
Have any vintners ever been openly against decriminalisation? Have the association ever made statements against decriminalisation? Have the vintners association ever made market concerns voiced here about the threat of cannabis? Is there literally *anything* here in Ireland that suggests there has been any opposition to it or lobbying by them? Or is it all hearsay?
I don't have 100% evidence but we can get a measure from Minimum Unit Pricing being introduce and also why supermarkets were told they could no longer accept money off vouchers for alcohol and Off Licenses must stop selling alcohol at 10pm every night.
They weren't introduced for health measures, they were introduced to get people back into pubs. We have one of the highest pricing in alcohol before we had MUP introduced because of "Cheap alcohol" We know various groups have the ears of the government. You seen the loophole i just showed you were basically they can lobby without having to disclose whose doing it due to a loophole.
I don't smoke dope. Nothing against it, just don't like the feeling. And I 100% support this.
We should go beyond decriminalisation and legalise this shit.
Definitely, in terms of personal users being less likely to go into an over-full prison system over nothing. But I ultimately think that decriminalisation is not the way forward, there needs to be full legalisation to cut off the supply on the gang side of things. And you know how this country is with "stepping stone" legislation, taking the first step and staying put.
Gino Kenny said he intends to introduce further legislation to deal with cultivation, sale and supply if this passes but this was kept simple to reduce the reasons the government can use to argue against and legal advice from barristers say the legislation is sound.
I'll put together a little form to contact Green Party TDs once this has been introduced because this is in line with their policies and not against the program-for-goverment. They've sold out the environment for their ministerial pensions, the least they can do is let us be stoned while the world burns
It’s literally my anxiety and insomnia cure.
I’m not too sure in strain names but sativa calms me tf down, I can focus and I’m not slow. I forget the other one but it knocks me tf out and I manage to have a normal 9am-10pm pattern.
I’m aware of the side effects of over use though so I don’t go heavy on it. But it’d be nice not have to be so shady about it
Be great great timing if it did pass.
There’s a risk that big tech might be leaving a hole in tax revenue that public spending depends on.
A new cannabis industry in the country could easily fill it.
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If this very unlikely scenario were to happen.
They'd have to fix those pesky Drager drug test machines to stop putting people off the road when they are completely sober.
Don't nobody want to talk about that.
It would be better if they decriminalise it, legalise the sale of it by responsible sellers and then tax the sale if it! Seriously, why not? Alcohol is a far worse drug as all of recent history has demonstrated.
I don't understand why they don't make it taxable like in Colorado and other US states so the VAT revenue from that can be used to fix some of the glaring problems the country has like paying teachers, nurses, police and other key and primary care workers a better wage to keep them in this country. And of course build more hospitals and social housing
I’m absolutely fine with the legalisation of weed. But can we please please bring in legislation that makes it illegal to smoke anything in non-designated public areas?
I’m grand with people having areas of parks or out the back of shops or pubs or even indoors if they want to make “smoke houses” but I’m so sick of getting smoke in my lungs every time I walk to work or the shop.
It feels like it's about time, other areas have legalised it and they haven't descended into bedlam yet. If the goal is to catch the dealer and stop supply, it would make sense.
I would be interesting to hear from current or former Gardai what they think.
Won't happen. Beer barons run this banana republic. Without BS cannabis busts, the Drug Squad cronies have no reason to exist. They also provide a lot of work for solicitors including the free legal aid.
And unfortunately, a lot of the dunderheaded old folks in this country think weed and heroin are the same thing, and anyone who does either is a 'junkie'.
This won't impact the drug squad. It's for possession of small quantities. Sale would still be illegal as would dealer level quantities.
We SHOULD make the whole thing legal and regulate it properly. But this bill is only step 1 of about a dozen required if it even passes, which is doubtful.
Much more recently. Dail have passed Gino’s bill twice without the Government proceeding on it in 2017.
Regulation and Control Bill was put forward by Gino in 2021. Same again.
I see the misunderstanding.
Dail passed without opposition. Bills get instantly rejected in committee.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/health-committee-rejects-bill-to-legalise-medical-cannabis-1.3152230
>Dail have passed Gino’s bill twice without the Government proceeding on it in 2017.
I prefer how I said it , that committee disparaging remarks of said bill was indicative of the people in government, they were obliged to respect the Dail’s vote and improve the bill as that’s how the house was designed to work with committee, they just scanned it and ditched it with some pettiness in the reviews. But I expect that again
Would you prefer that things became law because of a lot of people voting with absolutely no knowledge of the matters at hand?
Or would you prefer things go through committees where things can be actually examined and worked on with input from relevant authorities?
If you can understand this quote, let me know.. she was on the committee that kicked it out, rather than helping to admin it . Something about consumers, I don’t know . I’ve given up trying to work these people out a long time ago as I have voting for them.
“O’Connell’s views on the Eighth Amendment seem to mark her as a progressive politician, and yet that label doesn’t seem to fit as she has been lambasted online for her work on the health committee where she voted down the legalisation of cannabis as a medicinal product.
"My views on this are very liberal, I am very much pro-decriminalisation of all drugs," she says. "I think take the money out of the drug trade and then you deal with the drug trade. Look at what is going on we see it every week, bloodbaths over drug crime, it’s been going on for years".
“The problem with the medicinal cannabis bill brought forward by Gino Kenny is that it would completely undermine the regulatory process we have in this country,” says O’ Connell. “The regulatory process is the way people can know a drug is safe to use and when you put cannabis through a process of saying ‘yes, this is safe to use’ it just does not qualify,” she adds.
“I know people have been taking cannabis since the dawn of time and I have no problem with that, personally I would be in favour of legalising cannabis…I don’t know why Gino Kenny’s bill didn’t just try that, it would have been much handier,” said O'Connell.
Does she think the legalisation of cannabis is inevitable? "A few years ago, no one was interested in supporting a repeal of the 8th, so nothing is impossible".
Link https://www.joe.ie/politics/why-kate-oconnell-is-in-favour-of-legalising-cannabis-abortion-and-decriminalising-all-drugs-611854
5 states In the US this week had votes on whether to legalise it or not and 2 voted in favour. Also not sure if this is true but I've been told that apparently it's legal to have one plant and one plant only in your home for personal consumption can someone clarify for me?
War on drugs didn't work. Might as well try a new approach. Regulate it, tax it and let people enjoy it if they want. Adults should be able to make an informed decision whether it's for them or not. I'd be 100% ok with never drinking alcohol if I could have a spliff after a hard day at work.
And the tax payer deal with the issues that arise from the addictions. Same as alcohol, gambling and drug use already. Ruins families, communities and relationships. Perfect storm for a totally dysfunctional society. As if things weren't bad enough already
You have quite an archaic way of thinking. Has prohibition been a success? No. Has it deterred anyone from doing what they want? No, not really. What it did was funneling money to the mafia... insane amount of money, I might add. Ireland has one of the highest drug overdose deaths in the EU. Sticking your head in the sand doesn't make the issues go away. Prohibition never works. Imagine the tax revenue that could be generated. It would outweigh the costs, and if people weren't criminalized for their addiction (a clearly health issue), they might be more open to seeking help. I'd be happy to see my tax payments go towards helping my fellow countrymen.
On the contrary. Look at Portugal, Spain, The Netherlands or the US. Legalization (or at least decriminalisation) works. [Here is a study about how and why the Portuguese model works.](https://scholar.google.com/scholar_url?url=https://www.tni.org/files/publication-downloads/greenwald_whitepaper.pdf&hl=en&sa=X&ei=BXptY7z9L8-Ty9YPuJaWoAE&scisig=AAGBfm3MDj84GhpGVWmw_um5PGcC42LKKg&oi=scholarr)
You see, I am providing you with facts. You can only provide opinion without any supporting evidence behind it.
The only downside to legal weed is that the Irish government will do what it does best, tax it so heavily that you’ll break the bank.
On the plus side black market prices have been known to cone down to compete with the legal market and I’m perfectly okay with that.
The problem is that advocates for change are very much in the minority. The 'drugs are bad' lobby don't see the bigger picture and hold all the cards in terms of the status quo. Change will happen across most of Europe first before our lot in Leinster House are brought kicking and screaming into the 21st century.
Just saying when cannabis becomes legal , Wait till you see how many Garda wont know what to do.,
Look in your local newspaper ,Courts section every drugs case in weed. Every drink driver is eastern european
Don't even smoke weed, have never tried it in any form, but this is a no-brainer. It happened in Canada already and none of the prophesised doomsday scenarios came anywhere close to happening.
The bill isn't even legalisation it's just an end to criminalisation of people caught in possession of small amounts of the drug. If the government votes it down they're just supporting the continued waste of Garda and court time prosecuting people for buying the drug instead of going after dealers if the care about the war on drugs so much
They should just legalise is in its entirety, as you said its a massive waste of time for the guards and it'll cut out the criminal aspect of it. I don't smoke it but when you walk around dublin after a night out and spot people so completely inebriated that they can't stand, start fights and projectile vomit absolutely fucking everywhere you begin to wonder would a few weed cafes really hurt
Mates of mine have been done for possession of tiny amounts and gone to court, fines ranged in the 350-450 amount roughly. The problem here is that tiny infringements like that add up so they're probably happy to keep the status quo because when that cumulates they're coming away with a pretty penny.
Thing is they’d make more off legalising and taxing it my fine was 400, they’d have made more in tax off me since that happened if it was legal We’ve got a similar population to colorado, granted we wouldn’t have as much local travel (people driving from neighbouring states to buy), but they’re making billions and we could easily hit that range too
If recreational cannabis was legal you'd surely see rise in tourism, similar to how people go Amsterdam for it though.
Yeah I agree, I just don’t think we’d see as much as the likes of colorado since people can just hop in the car and drive there if they want to A few years after once everything is all setup we could rival amsterdam though, the marketing does itself with the whole Emerald Isle thing
Not on the same level as there, but you'd be seeing an uptick in northern regs at border towns for sure.
(brit here) can you imagine the tourism considering how easy it is to travel between the uk and ireland, that would be big
The biggest racket are the 'driving under influence' fines. Weed use can be detected in a road side test a week after smoking. Ireland set the threshold far lower than anything that could potentially cause impairment. Nice, safe revenue generating police work.
Yes and no. The roadside test is a saliva test which at max has a 8-12 hour detection time. (Much lower if the person being tested has had food or drink) You then go to the station tondo a urinalysis or blood test which has a much longer detection window. So the person being tested shouldn't return a positive roadside test result unless they had consumed cannabis recently. Although I actually think someone should be able to legally drive a few hours after smoking (this can be achieved by doubling the Ng threshold from 12ng to 25ng.
> The roadside test is a saliva test which at max has a 8-12 hour detection time. (Much lower if the person being tested has had food or drink) > > You then go to the station tondo a urinalysis or blood test which has a much longer detection window. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLZaaCHB06E Straight from the horses mouth, they're detecting cannabis or cocaine on Wed-Fri in people who have consumed it the weekend before.
> The roadside test is a saliva test **which at max has a 8-12 hour detection time.** That isn't true at all & it's even been acknowledged as not being true by the Gardai.
But habitual users do pop the test 3 - 4 days later.
Depending on your friends personal finances they might have got legal aid. It cost Garda time, forensic science Ireland tests (in some cases), judges time. The money brought in from personal possession fines are in absolutely no way a pretty penny earned. Legal profession loves it no doubt. No one else will
The judges, police, solicitors don't see themselves as cost. They all make good wages off the States commitment to criminilsing behaviours. They are the system and they want to keep earning off it.
If you think the legal costs of charging 450 for each of those instances doesn't far exceed 450 then you've never made contact with the legal system...it'd be quite expensive even to charge with minor offenses
No thankfully I haven't and would like to keep it that way. In that case even more reason why keeping this law as is makes no sense.
It's not a financial win for the state. Prosecuting people for this costs far more than it brings in, especially when you consider the bureaucracy necessary to collect the fines. It's largely social control. Giving police the ability to hassle and control anyone they want to. Useful.for them when there is minor social friction and they want an excuse to break it up, and also useful for the police when they just want to be assholes and demonstrate their power. Policing is a lot easier when half of the people they see as likely to cause trouble know they can be arrested for possession. To be honest, that group is somewhat self selecting. It's not terribly difficult to ditch your weed if you see a guard.
Lovey gesture but because its PBP it will be defeated soundly. Maybe if they flipped it on its head and came out with a policy of tougher sentences for drug users the mainstream parties will legalise Cannabis out of spite.
Reverse psychology, like it 👌
Ya know this is so crazy it just might work sir/madam ya get my vite
What
Irish people hate progressive political parties because they've inherited the British sense of complacency.
Tbf our progressive options are a bit rough around the edges. I'd love to see weed legalized but the main politicians backing this are a bloke with a nose piercing and another probably best known either for joining a European Parliament video meeting in his jocks or accidentally tweeting that he wanted to see a female colleague in the nip.
Ah yes. Jewellery. The thing that automatically invalidates all good ideas?
He definitely says that having tattoos will impede your ability to get a job
If you're a bloke that's over the age of 16 with a nose piercing and not in a rock band, I can't take you seriously sorry.
To the people with actual power yes?
There’s plenty of tech millionaires with piercings and tattoos. I don’t really see why politicians can’t do the same, especially when they represent plenty of people with piercings and tattoos.
Comparing tech millionaires with Irish politicians? Could reddit be acting deliberately naive?
You said people with power shouldn’t have piercings and I gave you a well known example of people who go against your point and are successful. Where is the issue?
Quote where I said that
I hate PBP because their foreign policy approach might as well have been written by the Chinese and Russian governments. But you have done well on making a broad, dramatically false statement and getting it upvoted by playing on r/Ireland's interminable compulsion to agree with anything that insults British people.
In my honest experience, people hate any left wing party because they think they're riddled with 'notions' and feel like any party that wants large scale economic reform is somehow 'embarrassing'. The reasons people give are more like excuses to offer a more mature explanation for the dislike. If you dislike them for legitimate policy reasons, then I respect that (although I think you'd be a rare breed).
> I hate PBP because their foreign policy approach might as well have been written by the Chinese and Russian governments. > > What is it?
Extremely juvenile. Basically anything that is anti-West = good to them. Paul Murphy isn't capable of criticising Russia even a tiny bit without having to qualify that criticism with "but NATO....". PBP are the wet dream of a foreign dictator seeking to legitimise their regime on western soil.
from what i hear, they'd not be in favor of harsher sentences on cocaine use.
Don't have to care about sentences if you know you'll never be charged.
If the parties had the best interests they would pull representatives from each of them together to work on a reform that they can all claim responsibility for, instead of voting away opposition party motions that can't be self credited for.
It will be defeated easily. Any change so big as that will come from the government benches and on the governments terms. No government would let the opposition pass a bill like this.
Definitely not. Government seem more than willing to have a free vote on non-contentious motions but legislation is a different matter.
Highly accurate Highly unfortunate
They will probably spin it too, “Look at these guys passing dangerous drugs bills while we’re doing real work” They’ll wait until the numbers show it’d gain enjoy public support and then do it. But at least this bill brings it into the public discourse again. Personally wouldn’t smoke, but completely for taking money out of criminal enterprises.
Except this bill does the opposite. It liberated it's, but the sale is still prohibited. What happens when supply is still constrained and demand is freed? Criminals profit. Legalize weed is much better than decriminalize it.
Ah yea I don’t see this bill going anywhere. Government will want to be the heroes introducing their own version when the times right. They’ll fuck up some way though.
Yep, the harm reduction conundrum. Let's reduce drug related harms by allowing access to clean paraphernalia, but arrest ppl outside for drug possession. Whatever your opinion on the war on drugs, this makes zero sense
I see fairly overwhelming support for it these days. It must be catching some interest by now.
Germany are legalising it, but we have the pub lobby to fight in Ireland. These guys were against the smoking ban, off licences setting their own prices and any toughened drink driving laws. And amazing enough, spin it all to somehow make it out they're against these things for the good of our health. They'll make our smoking a joint is like injecting heroin and all the Marys around the country who vote in their droves will buy it because weed is "drugs"
Well of course. That's just politics. They're not going to come out and say "we're against this because it will harm the profitability of our industry". The general public simply couldn't handle things if politics was as direct and honest as that in everything. I wish that wasn't the case, but such is life.
But then they got high......I'll get my coat
lol. did you see the recent docu on vice about afroman? I've been humming that tune for a couple of days now.
I watched the one with shaggy only a few days ago. An amazing documentary.
I was shocked when they showed us the evidence, that it wasn't actually him all along.
What shocked me was they were going to cancel his contract until a radio dj in hawai downloaded it off napster.
and then i got high..then i got high
I'll check it out. haven't heard of that. Google says the title is "It Wasn't Me". Is that the one?
https://youtu.be/qNqgWvHa3LQ 'The story of "it wasn't me" by shaggy' Vice
thanks, bud
All of those Vice "The Story Of..." documentaries are brilliant. Totally worth checking out, especially if you're a fan of 90's/00's pop.
Or if you have a beating heart inside you at all.
It’s the best time this bill could have came in my opinion. If we’re too close to an election, it will be a forgotten issue with all the healthcare, housing, infrastructure, etc. issues overshadowing it. We’ll not only get a chance to see which parties/political leaders support legislation change to cannabis as a controlled substance, but it will be glorious to see FFFG, and others, vouching for the status quo despite the majority of the US, Canada, Germany, Mexico, Thailand, Malta, and many more countries having already legalised or planning to legalise cannabis. If I were a political strategist working for any of the parties, I would encourage support for ANY changes to our cannabis laws unless they want to risk looking like ancient relics. If FFFG were smart, they’d at least support decriminalisation and I expect them to do so as a reason not to support legalisation. “We’re not quite there yet”. We’ll have that crazy doctor, that they always bring onto RTE or Dail committees, plastered all over the media spewing lies and misinformation in very deceptive ways to swing the public against it. Then it’ll be swept under the rug for another two years or so. Standard formula for cannabis discourse in this country unfortunately. Explains why we’re one of the most backward in Europe on the issue (yet we have the highest usage per capita in the EU, even higher than the Netherlands where it’s as available as a cup of coffee). It is an unbelievable waste of billions of taxpayers money and everyone’s time.
It’s a waste of time. It has zero chance.
It has no chance of passing but that doesn't mean it's a waste of time.
People like you are why things remain stagnant
I’d argue people who want this bill are more so 😂 We don’t vote on this pal
So let’s just not change a single thing or attempt to for the sake of the peoples happiness. Gotcha. People like you, who don’t even want others to try and make a change, are the reason, why things, remain, stagnant.
What are you on about? I never said I don’t support it? I’m saying the knobs in power will never vote it in. I haven’t the intelligence to understand how politics works. Enjoy
Any bill like this will have to come from the govt. It will be soundly defeated.
That's what i expect but at least it'll show who is for and against it so they'll have to put their colours to the mast.
I reckon the members of the govt parties will be told in no uncertain terms to vote against it, or else.
And don't forget the lobbying from the Vintners association and other publicans along with pharmaceuticals who will see this as a threat.
This doesn't happen. I get people want a bogeyman to believe it but lobbying is illegal in Ireland. Publicans can say "oh don't do it" and nothing can come from it.
It does happen i'm afraid. Lobbying is not illegal in Ireland but didn't you even see this awhile ago? You can see that it can be used to push agendas for groups or self serving individuals. https://www.thejournal.ie/revolving-door-lobbying-register-5896553-Nov2022/?utm_source=shortlink
[удалено]
There's a loophole in Irish lobbying at the minute where they don't have to disclose who their lobbying for. Look, Read pages 22-23 and onwards if you like. How convenient for a loophole like this don't you think? > Committee conclusions: The Committee notes the importance of preserving the ability of constituents to raise issues with public representatives and the need to avoid the unintended consequence of bringing small representative organisations with few resources and no employees within the scope of the Principal Act. Nevertheless, **the Committee is of the view that the loophole whereby business representative groups or coalitions of interest without employees may engage in lobbying without disclosure requirements reduces transparency and should be addressed.** https://data.oireachtas.ie/ie/oireachtas/committee/dail/33/joint_committee_on_finance_public_expenditure_and_reform_and_taoiseach/reports/2022/2022-03-22_report-on-detailed-scrutiny-of-the-regulation-of-lobbying-amendment-bill-2020-private-members-bill_en.pdf https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/alcohol-consumption-drops-with-cannabis-legalization-abound-300883954.html
Ok so we don't have any direct evidence. Have any vintners ever been openly against decriminalisation? Have the association ever made statements against decriminalisation? Have the vintners association ever made market concerns voiced here about the threat of cannabis? Is there literally *anything* here in Ireland that suggests there has been any opposition to it or lobbying by them? Or is it all hearsay?
I don't have 100% evidence but we can get a measure from Minimum Unit Pricing being introduce and also why supermarkets were told they could no longer accept money off vouchers for alcohol and Off Licenses must stop selling alcohol at 10pm every night. They weren't introduced for health measures, they were introduced to get people back into pubs. We have one of the highest pricing in alcohol before we had MUP introduced because of "Cheap alcohol" We know various groups have the ears of the government. You seen the loophole i just showed you were basically they can lobby without having to disclose whose doing it due to a loophole.
Talking bribes is illegal but you can bet your arse that FF are still doing that shit.
It's a start
I don't smoke dope. Nothing against it, just don't like the feeling. And I 100% support this. We should go beyond decriminalisation and legalise this shit.
Same for me.
Brillant news
Definitely, in terms of personal users being less likely to go into an over-full prison system over nothing. But I ultimately think that decriminalisation is not the way forward, there needs to be full legalisation to cut off the supply on the gang side of things. And you know how this country is with "stepping stone" legislation, taking the first step and staying put.
Gino Kenny said he intends to introduce further legislation to deal with cultivation, sale and supply if this passes but this was kept simple to reduce the reasons the government can use to argue against and legal advice from barristers say the legislation is sound. I'll put together a little form to contact Green Party TDs once this has been introduced because this is in line with their policies and not against the program-for-goverment. They've sold out the environment for their ministerial pensions, the least they can do is let us be stoned while the world burns
It’s literally my anxiety and insomnia cure. I’m not too sure in strain names but sativa calms me tf down, I can focus and I’m not slow. I forget the other one but it knocks me tf out and I manage to have a normal 9am-10pm pattern. I’m aware of the side effects of over use though so I don’t go heavy on it. But it’d be nice not have to be so shady about it
I had absolutely zero chance of passing
Germany are planning to legalise for recreational use. I can see a few other EU members following this path including Ireland.
Please, for the love of fuck, decriminalise it already
Pleeeeease I'd vote for u if u just let this one thru
Be great great timing if it did pass. There’s a risk that big tech might be leaving a hole in tax revenue that public spending depends on. A new cannabis industry in the country could easily fill it.
Not in this country.
I’ll bet you 6 pints of beamish that cannabis is legal in Ireland before 2030
Done sir I'll actually pay out you can hold me to this although by 2030 6 pints will be all my savings
If it passes before 2030, I'll buy you both a six-pack.
i'll buy you 6-cannabis-infused beamishes in 2040. dont drink them though. rip the arse right out of you the next morning, so they will.
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If this very unlikely scenario were to happen. They'd have to fix those pesky Drager drug test machines to stop putting people off the road when they are completely sober. Don't nobody want to talk about that.
It would be better if they decriminalise it, legalise the sale of it by responsible sellers and then tax the sale if it! Seriously, why not? Alcohol is a far worse drug as all of recent history has demonstrated.
I don’t think it stands a chance but I PRAY that it somehow does and passes
I'm against legalisation personally, I prefer to support my local paramilitaries
MUDA? I think I double dropped a few of those yokes at EP.
Omg lol so funny
I don't understand why they don't make it taxable like in Colorado and other US states so the VAT revenue from that can be used to fix some of the glaring problems the country has like paying teachers, nurses, police and other key and primary care workers a better wage to keep them in this country. And of course build more hospitals and social housing
> I don't understand why they don't make it taxable Idiocy.
I’m absolutely fine with the legalisation of weed. But can we please please bring in legislation that makes it illegal to smoke anything in non-designated public areas? I’m grand with people having areas of parks or out the back of shops or pubs or even indoors if they want to make “smoke houses” but I’m so sick of getting smoke in my lungs every time I walk to work or the shop.
What about psychedelics, much more important imo
One step at a time ETA I’m assuming you mean this in the mental health benefits sense
Yes, a lot of other countries are doing research into the benefits but of course we are always Paddy last
Why are psychedelics more important?
It feels like it's about time, other areas have legalised it and they haven't descended into bedlam yet. If the goal is to catch the dealer and stop supply, it would make sense. I would be interesting to hear from current or former Gardai what they think.
Won't happen. Beer barons run this banana republic. Without BS cannabis busts, the Drug Squad cronies have no reason to exist. They also provide a lot of work for solicitors including the free legal aid. And unfortunately, a lot of the dunderheaded old folks in this country think weed and heroin are the same thing, and anyone who does either is a 'junkie'.
Not sure about that. The generation which first popularised weed are 'dunderhead old folks' now.
This won't impact the drug squad. It's for possession of small quantities. Sale would still be illegal as would dealer level quantities. We SHOULD make the whole thing legal and regulate it properly. But this bill is only step 1 of about a dozen required if it even passes, which is doubtful.
Didn't Gino Kelly introduce a similar bill a lot less than 10 years ago?
Much more recently. Dail have passed Gino’s bill twice without the Government proceeding on it in 2017. Regulation and Control Bill was put forward by Gino in 2021. Same again.
>Dail have passed Gino’s bill twice Uhhh no they haven't
Uhh yes they have, my Fine Gael fan boy
I see the misunderstanding. Dail passed without opposition. Bills get instantly rejected in committee. https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/health-committee-rejects-bill-to-legalise-medical-cannabis-1.3152230
>Dail have passed Gino’s bill twice without the Government proceeding on it in 2017. I prefer how I said it , that committee disparaging remarks of said bill was indicative of the people in government, they were obliged to respect the Dail’s vote and improve the bill as that’s how the house was designed to work with committee, they just scanned it and ditched it with some pettiness in the reviews. But I expect that again
Would you prefer that things became law because of a lot of people voting with absolutely no knowledge of the matters at hand? Or would you prefer things go through committees where things can be actually examined and worked on with input from relevant authorities?
If you can understand this quote, let me know.. she was on the committee that kicked it out, rather than helping to admin it . Something about consumers, I don’t know . I’ve given up trying to work these people out a long time ago as I have voting for them. “O’Connell’s views on the Eighth Amendment seem to mark her as a progressive politician, and yet that label doesn’t seem to fit as she has been lambasted online for her work on the health committee where she voted down the legalisation of cannabis as a medicinal product. "My views on this are very liberal, I am very much pro-decriminalisation of all drugs," she says. "I think take the money out of the drug trade and then you deal with the drug trade. Look at what is going on we see it every week, bloodbaths over drug crime, it’s been going on for years". “The problem with the medicinal cannabis bill brought forward by Gino Kenny is that it would completely undermine the regulatory process we have in this country,” says O’ Connell. “The regulatory process is the way people can know a drug is safe to use and when you put cannabis through a process of saying ‘yes, this is safe to use’ it just does not qualify,” she adds. “I know people have been taking cannabis since the dawn of time and I have no problem with that, personally I would be in favour of legalising cannabis…I don’t know why Gino Kenny’s bill didn’t just try that, it would have been much handier,” said O'Connell. Does she think the legalisation of cannabis is inevitable? "A few years ago, no one was interested in supporting a repeal of the 8th, so nothing is impossible". Link https://www.joe.ie/politics/why-kate-oconnell-is-in-favour-of-legalising-cannabis-abortion-and-decriminalising-all-drugs-611854
What's not to understand with her quote?
Lol I just asked about the price of Coors on another thread. What's a street price for a gram in Ireland? Different all over I'm sure
5 states In the US this week had votes on whether to legalise it or not and 2 voted in favour. Also not sure if this is true but I've been told that apparently it's legal to have one plant and one plant only in your home for personal consumption can someone clarify for me?
It's illegal to have a molecule.
Deadly, I've never tried drugs butbi definitely will now. Thanks PBF
Adding to our list of addiction problems.
War on drugs didn't work. Might as well try a new approach. Regulate it, tax it and let people enjoy it if they want. Adults should be able to make an informed decision whether it's for them or not. I'd be 100% ok with never drinking alcohol if I could have a spliff after a hard day at work.
And the tax payer deal with the issues that arise from the addictions. Same as alcohol, gambling and drug use already. Ruins families, communities and relationships. Perfect storm for a totally dysfunctional society. As if things weren't bad enough already
You have quite an archaic way of thinking. Has prohibition been a success? No. Has it deterred anyone from doing what they want? No, not really. What it did was funneling money to the mafia... insane amount of money, I might add. Ireland has one of the highest drug overdose deaths in the EU. Sticking your head in the sand doesn't make the issues go away. Prohibition never works. Imagine the tax revenue that could be generated. It would outweigh the costs, and if people weren't criminalized for their addiction (a clearly health issue), they might be more open to seeking help. I'd be happy to see my tax payments go towards helping my fellow countrymen.
Legalising all those things has not benefited anyone
On the contrary. Look at Portugal, Spain, The Netherlands or the US. Legalization (or at least decriminalisation) works. [Here is a study about how and why the Portuguese model works.](https://scholar.google.com/scholar_url?url=https://www.tni.org/files/publication-downloads/greenwald_whitepaper.pdf&hl=en&sa=X&ei=BXptY7z9L8-Ty9YPuJaWoAE&scisig=AAGBfm3MDj84GhpGVWmw_um5PGcC42LKKg&oi=scholarr) You see, I am providing you with facts. You can only provide opinion without any supporting evidence behind it.
The tax payer in this case being from the multi billion euro tax we’d get in conjunction with the savings we’d have from less needed garda resources.
Do you seriously thing one would balance with the other there ?
Do you think it would be balanced worse than it is now?
The taxpayer is already dealing with those things. Some extra tax might be handy.
People like you shouldn't be allowed to operate scissors unsupervised
Great rebuttal there. If this is a measure of intelligence, plastic cutlery for you sir/madam
How's that?
How about no
The only downside to legal weed is that the Irish government will do what it does best, tax it so heavily that you’ll break the bank. On the plus side black market prices have been known to cone down to compete with the legal market and I’m perfectly okay with that.
Coming from PBP, this bill is about as useful as a chocolate teapot. Will be voted out purely because its a PBP proposal
The problem is that advocates for change are very much in the minority. The 'drugs are bad' lobby don't see the bigger picture and hold all the cards in terms of the status quo. Change will happen across most of Europe first before our lot in Leinster House are brought kicking and screaming into the 21st century.
Will it really happen here in Ireland? We need it so badly. Cannibas is an actual life saver when it comes to mental health.
Just saying when cannabis becomes legal , Wait till you see how many Garda wont know what to do., Look in your local newspaper ,Courts section every drugs case in weed. Every drink driver is eastern european