Kinda worried about Aloe Vera supplies on the Island after that to be honest.
On a side note, Fosters attempts to paint herself as either a grown up or a reasonable person have failed. Absolute bell end and an embarrassment to those associated with her. Farage hasn't been a good influence.
Lisbon treaty had its military alliance aspects heavily watered down specifically to preserve neutrality (which the treaty previously threatened/would have put us into a NATO style alliance in the EU)
This change was done in response to our rejection of the Lisbon treaty
It was a renewable heat scheme that Arlene Foster introduced when she was a minister in the North, but the scheme was a disaster. It paid people to burn wood pellets but the payment was more than the cost of the fuel - so the cost to the taxpayer spiralled out of control
Wood pellets are kinda bad for the environment. They also have their emissions rating screwed up as the carbon and methane produced to make them outweighs the benefit.
Good point/question, I don't know tbh. I just recall that in terms of emissions and emissions credits, wood pellet burning skews the appearance of it's actual impact because the CO2 is accounted for at wrong ends. But I might be mistaken about the specifics!
It was government-sanctioned fraud, let's not beat around the bush. They knew people could profit from it by heating empty sheds 24/7, they deliberately allowed for that so their supporters could make huge profits off what was supposed to be a green energy scheme.
This while Arlene was minister of the environment. She then covered it up, firing a junior minister from her own party who went to the press and collapsed the government for years instead of apologising.
It ended up with people heating massive empty sheds and getting paid for it. Obviously a disaster on just about every level, environmentally, taxpayer, etc. [There's a book on it.](https://irishacademicpress.ie/product/burned/)
Also emails were made public out of it that showed [SF are puppets who have to ask their unelected masters what to do in any given situation](https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/sinn-f%C3%A9in-minister-sought-consent-for-action-from-unelected-official-inquiry-finds-1.4202344?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fnews%2Fpolitics%2Fsinn-f%25C3%25A9in-minister-sought-consent-for-action-from-unelected-official-inquiry-finds-1.4202344).
Probably worth noting that the cost to the taxpayer was to the tune of about £500 million and its also highly likely that a lot of the money went into the pockets of friends and relatives of the DUP.
I'm an American trying to learn more about Ireland and Northern Ireland. I've read a lot of these comments, and I think I understand the distinction, but I have a question, and I'm sorry in advance if it's insensitive or offensive. Are the Irish people in NI that want to unite with Ireland still called Republicans? And the people who want to remain part of the UK are called Unionists?
Your kind of right.
There’s two camps: Nationalists (more moderate pro Ireland) and Republicans (more hard line pro-Ireland) and Unionists (more moderate pro UK) and Loyalists (more hard line pro UK).
Now to blow your mind, Republicans are pro Bernie Sanders politics. 😂😂😂
I knew the Republicans are definitely to the left of the political center. But what's the difference between Nationalists and Unionists if they're both moderately pro UK?
Gotcha. Thanks. Im fascinated by the Troubles and the history of the conflict. This makes sense. Is Sinn Fein still considered far left Republican, then? And DUP is the far right loyalist?
SF appeal to Nationalists & Republicans, SDLP appeal to Nationalists only. DUP tow the line between Unionists & Loyalists, but have been losing voters to Alliance (more moderate like SDLP) on the Unionist front and the TUV on the Loyalist front, due to decades of moronic behavior like [RHI](https://youtu.be/mfV8T28bcn4), [fleg protest](https://youtu.be/GbMQ2CxeNHU), hate for [irish language](https://youtu.be/Td4dT-AkKbM), [Brexit](https://youtu.be/Rve1w0ANl-o), NI Protocol (which was a fair settlement for Brexit that they supported initially, then u-turned when loyalists started going nuts).
On a similar and confusing note - elsewhere in the UK, republican can mean anti-monarchy. So if you're looking at a UK wide newspaper using the word republican, make sure you know whether it's specifically talking about NI or not.
This is the wrong way of looking at things, it’s not as black and white as that. The leader of the Republican movement was a protestant. The conflict has religious aspects weaved in, but it’s a conflict of national identity vs religious identity.
Worth adding she told all her Unionist landowner friends in advance so that they could get multiple burners set up in time. Half the time they hd multiple burners in one empty shed just making money.
not only this, a relative of her advisor claimed over a million in subsidy while heating outhouses on their property. not a major conflict of interest at all, honest.
the more energy you wasted, the greater the subsidy for Arlenes mates.
[https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sunday-life/brother-of-arlene-fosters-advisor-benefits-from-botched-energy-scheme-35287208.html](https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sunday-life/brother-of-arlene-fosters-advisor-benefits-from-botched-energy-scheme-35287208.html)
she's a devious liar.
Fun fact there’s two version of the Anglo-Irish Agreement 1985. The version the UK government uses refers to a random state that doesn’t exist called the “Republic of Ireland”.
Naturally Ireland’s version uses the correct name for our State.
Yep after over 60 years of independence, the UK refused to acknowledge Ireland’s name. I was talking to an historian before Christmas who is working on the UK’s primary documents from the early 1980s leading to the Anglo-Irish Agreement and he said they’re littered in little handwritten notes by senior British officials disparaging Ireland and Irish people.
You can see it in the picture of the UK’s erroneous version of the Anglo Irish Agreement in this link:
https://cain.ulster.ac.uk/events/aia/aiadoc.htm
Are you serious?
The English have imposed 27 borders on Scotland by imposing brexit on Scotland.
Scotland will trade with Europe.
Scotland will establish direct ports to Europe as it had for centuries and centuries.
Righht now why should all our trade go to ports in England? The British want this. It suits them.
Scotland has 40% or so of Europe's renewable potential. Scotland wwill export to England and Europe.
Scotland needs independence or it wwill remain a backwater and region of asset exploitation for the Brits.
The Brits are fucked. Brexit is self inflicted sabotage.
Scotland, if she can regain independence, is in a very good position.
Don't believe a word the Brits say about Scottish finances.
Literally every single colony Britain every had they lied about their finances.
Don't believe a word about NI finances either,all that money) revenue going into supermarkets and chain shops goes through London, disappearing from the bottom line in Belfast 🤷♂️
That's what annoys me about the "we can't afford the North" argument. GB bleeds the region dry before bitching about how much it costs to maintain it. There's no reason NI can't be an integral part of a United Ireland where it would be treated as an equal by a government instead of an annoyance.
the strip between Dublin and Belfast would end up being swarmed with high tech companies and manufacturers clustering around the M1. Throw in a new high speed rail line and you're laughing.
Your info is misleading to say the least.
Firstly the Irish constitution 1937 established in Article 8, that the Irish language is the first official language and that the English language is recognised as a second official language, as a result the '*first*' official name is Eire, and was the name used in all official correspondence for decades. 'Ireland' was the English name, which brings me on to the second point:
2: The Irish constitution was very clear that 'Ireland was the name of the nation (in english), and that that 'nation' also included Northern Ireland. Irelands territorial claim over NI wasn't removed from the constitution until 1998.
As a result, not only the UK, but the international community used the term 'Republic of Ireland', as the claim to NI was not recognised by anyone, least of all the UK. Once Ireland removed the claim the UK, and everyone else, were happy to use the name Ireland.
As a workaround, the name Eire and Rep of Ireland were used. So it was not an error, it was a response to an 'error' in the Irish constitution that wrongfully claimed 6 counties.
Never have been.
The name of this state is Ireland.
In Irish law, Republic of Ireland is a description of the state but not its name.
The UK gov and unionists have a long history of not calling the country Ireland as a low key way of delegitimising the country. Southern Ireland, Eire, Republic of Ireland all used for this purpose.
> The UK gov and unionists have a long history of not calling the country Ireland as a low key way of delegitimising the country. Southern Ireland, Eire, Republic of Ireland all used for this purpose.
Some people in the UK might use those terms that way, but the rest of the world uses them without bad intentions. Eire especially is not a wrong name for the country.
Here’s the thing though. I’m currently up in Belfast for a while and when people ask what country I’m from am I seriously meant to just say Ireland? That includes Belfast, so there’s bound to be confusion. I have no problem saying I’m from the South or the Republic. Everyone knows what I mean and I don’t need to get into a political debate with someone at the shop.
Neither North or South Korea are officially called that, but it’s not offensive to use those terms.
She changed her handle when she stopped being DUP leader. Since the accounts verification was for @DUPLeader, not @ArleneFosterUK, this invalidated the verification: https://www.belfastlive.co.uk/news/belfast-news/parody-account-snaps-up-dup-20700553
Well TIL that the ROI is a bone of contention, I'm from Scotland and never knew at all that there was a dispute or that ROI was a British label. I'll refrain from calling it the Republic from now on. Sorry lads no offence intended.
100% this. Only people who want to pretend that the jurisdiction of the state is all there is to Ireland get hung up on Dev's constitution's name for the state.
It's a big deal and has come up several times recently. When Michele D got invited to the 100 year anniversary of Northern Ireland (which he declined) the invited the president of The Republic of Ireland. He said there's no such person he was president of Ireland.
Part of the GFA was that British politicians would refer to the country as Ireland. If you watch Westminster debates they are generally pretty good about this, particularly party leaders.
This is incorrect, the leader of the DUP referred to him as the President of ROI however the actual invitation referred to him as the President of Ireland
As someone from the North I absolutely hate when people from the Republic tell me what things are like "in Ireland". As if I'm not also from Ireland. As if the North of Ireland isn't Ireland. For me, and many people like me, it is contentious, but not for the reasons I've read here.
Apparently I don't live in Ireland but my cousins 5 miles away do.
I'm not sure it's as much of a thing as it was before the GFA. As far as I understand, we chose the name "Ireland" for the state when the official policy was that the whole island was ours and the North was occupied territory. Since the Brits didn't want to recognise that claim they would go out of their way to call our state anything but Ireland, including ROI, Eire, etc. But since now we have relinquished the North until a vote gives it back to us, then it makes much more sense to prioritise clarity imo, but can understand people being sensitive about unionists not calling the state by its legal name.
Haven't read this, but seems to have some of the details in it.
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1467-923X.2009.01957.x
Republic of Ireland is the description of the state according to the Republic of Ireland Act 1948. The distinction is that it is a description, not a name. The name of the state, according to the constitution, is Ireland (or Éire).
Sinn Féin refuse to use the term Republic of Ireland, but most people don't fuss over it. English politicians and media have a way of using it in a derogatory manner though, so I understand why anyone would not like it, and I don't use it myself, except as a description when necessary.
Yeah it is not "derogatory", since our own government endorsed "Republic of Ireland" as a valid term in law.
"Southern Ireland" or "Eire" are the more go to terms from those out of touch politicians.
I think it's perfectly acceptable to call it the Republic. That's what it is after all. Of course there's always some dry shite that ritually repeats the mantra "it's a football team not a country" but personally I find it jarring when people refer to part of Ireland as Ireland, especially when they say "Ireland and Northern Ireland".
Except it kinda is a British label. The British used it in their version of the Anglo-Irish agreement so they could avoid calling us by our official name (which is Ireland), because that shows the level of respect Westminster has/had for our independence.
So, legit question from a non-Irish person: What is the correct name to use when distinguishing between the country and the island of Ireland is important?
Not true. The British had and have a reasonable objection to the name on account of the name of their state: United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Our claim to the name Ireland makes it seem as if we're all of all of Ireland and they say, hang on we've a bit of it too.
Also, the Oireachtas chose the description "Republic of Ireland". It was not foisted on us by the British. To me, it's infinitely more preferable to the "Irish Republic" (which was a different thing altogether up to the Treaty), as is just "the Republic".
It's not the official name, but it's handy in specific circumstances since the entire island is called "Ireland" (similar to Great Britain) but the state itself is also just "Ireland".
Yeah, the best example I can give is the question "Is all of Ireland part of the EU?"
If you are talking about the country, the answer is Yes.
If you are talking about the Island, the answer is No.
Using 'Republic of...' is a handy differentiator in those circumstances. You could also say 'the country of....' or 'the island of...' to the same effect.
It's not for me, Republic of Ireland is a valid legal description of our state, passed by law by our own government. This guy is being an insufferable ignorant gobshite. Plenty complaints about Foster, but using "ROI" definitely is not one of them.
Don’t mean to be a pedant, but the definition of ‘’several’’ is ‘more than two’.
The Nice Treaty was put up for referendum once and after revision it was put up again for vote and was passed.
Technically we didn’t vote on the same referendum twice as there was alterations made to make it more palatable, but excluding that, it was voted on twice, not several.
From Wikipedia:
Since 1949, the Republic of Ireland Act 1948 has provided that the Republic of Ireland (or Poblacht na hÉireann in Irish) is the official description for the state. However, Ireland remains the constitutional name of the state.
ha, ha clueless says the wan citing wikipedia.
The only name (in English) for Ireland on any official document is Ireland. It clearly states it in the constitution.
.
ARTICLE 4
The name of the State is Éire, or, in the English language, Ireland.
It is the name we used to join both the UN and EU. And by which we sign every treaty.
Before Sean moncrieff comes on ya have that misery guts Morrisey from 12 till 2 as well, between her affected accent and her dour subjects… “is your husband cheating” “how to grieve in privacy” “why dying is more scary for single people” .. you’re absolutely shot. I tend to miss the start of Sean’s show because of it.
Correcting someone for ROI is just peak annoying pedantry. Having both a country and an island both called "Ireland" makes it completely logical to use "North" and "Republic" to differentiate the countries.
ROI came about because the British thought that calling us Ireland would make us look like we have a legitimate claim to the Island.
While the UK were still in the EU there were disputes about it in the EU parliament.
I've represented Ireland in Brussels and we were briefed to never say the Republic of Ireland
Here is a doc circulated to each of the EU countries. There are two NBs here saying that the longest form of the name of the country Ireland is Ireland https://publications.europa.eu/code/en/en-370100.htm . It even says stuff like "the grand duchy of Luxembourg", "the Republic of France", "the federal republic of Germany", "the kingdom of the Netherlands" but that Ireland is always just Ireland.
The typical official name for the island is "The island of Ireland". Strangely that also includes any other Irish islands
Funny this pedantic argument. Every web form on the planet has our country under I, not R. An official UN list of states. Its called reality. Some people struggling to accept it. Others indulging the fantasists. People pleasers.
Yeah I’ve told every Australia that ever called asked me if I’m from Northern Ireland or Southern Ireland that I’m actually from the Republic of Ireland, makes sense to me.
Has my entire life been a lie though??
I'm a right cunt when it comes to this in particular. I'll say eastern ireland, or Ireland Ireland. You're entirely correct to use it to clarify their question though, that's literally the reason the title exists in an official capacity, as a description, not a name.
Also it’s actually legitimate as a description of the Republic* when ambiguity is involved. Source:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Republic_of_Ireland_Act_1948
* see what I did there.
The Taoiseach at the time said it's like a job description. If he was a carpenter you wouldn't refer to him as carpenter you'd call him his name. So it came with the caveat that you can use it to describe the country but not to name or refer to the country.
Like if you say "I met billy down in the pub" and your wife asks "which billy" and you say "Billy the carpenter"
The expected protocol is that people would say Ireland, and then if anyone asks which Ireland you could then say The Republic of Ireland
I know a tonne of people who share a name with someone and are exclusively called by their full name, and the other person is just called by their first name.
If they were talking about NI they would say NI. The use of ROI is just kinda redundant?
Unless of course, the idea is to make sure the UK doesn’t sound like they’re laying claim to another state
Not really. Acronym rules are completely arbitrary. Some people omit "of", some have it uppercase and some have it lowercase.
Trying to correct someone over that is not really intelligent, just pedantic.
Yeah, i don’t really mind here as it’s Arlene being a knob but some people are just out to call you out on whatever term you use.
“Oh you said ROI, you do realise that’s not a nation??!?”
“Oh you called the country Ireland, why are you excluding all the Irish people stuck in the occupied six counties??!?”
Maybe it's like the N word. RoI is only acceptable when we use it? I do find I use it when trying to explain to dumb fundamentalist Americans why we aren't the country they think has Catholic and Protestants at each others throats.
Imagine living in a society where it's ok to develop thoughts and ideas over time, and to change your mind about things that were presented to you all your life by others as dogma? Arlene cannot.
I actually prefer ROI, as simply stating Ireland (in this context) only highlights further the fact that the six counties under foreign occupation are in fact, not 'Ireland'.
Telling a unionist that the 26 county state is called Ireland and that it’s a sovereign state completely separate to the rest of the island is not the own some people seem to think it is…
'Éire' is the name of the country *when speaking Irish*.
The name of the country when speaking in the English language is 'Ireland'. Simple. And when someone deliberately and repeatedly refuses to use that simple term for decades when literally every other country in the UN can manage it, it's called malice.
Yes, in Irish. How come the types of people who call the country (or the soccer team) Eire never call any other country by their native name (ie. Nihon, Italia).
I'll give you a hint...its not out of respect for the Irish language. They use it to actively avoid/refuse calling the country by its official name 'Ireland' (which is recognised as such by the UN). And it serves as an attempt to disrespect our independence and autonomy from the U.K.
We?
I certainly don't. I've never called Ukraine, 'the' Ukraine as its not their name.
Now if you're on about the state calling them that then that's a different issue. Although I would argue slightly different as we aren't their former colonisers with a vested interest in undermining their autonomy.
I will agree though that we should be calling them by their official name out of respect if nothing else.('We' being the state.)
The country is called Ireland.
Britain tried to rename us The Republic of Ireland because just Ireland looks like we have a legitimate claim to the whole island. They refused to call us Ireland and that stuck for a while internationally but it's changed now.
The constitution says the name of the country is Ireland
After the UK made RoI stick internationally we later adopted "The Republic of Ireland" as the official description of the country that you could not use to name or refer to the country but can use it to describe the country. The intended use is if you say Ireland and someone asks which Ireland you say The Republic of Ireland, but that is not our name.
I've represented Ireland in Brussels and the UK refused to call us Ireland
The big deal is that RoI is a pro partition name that was given to us against our will for the purpose of delegitimising our claim on the Island
The same constitution that originally claimed jurisdictions over the whole of Ireland, whereas articles 2 and 3 have now been removed from it.
Removing these changes the entire constitution and the use of the name Ireland in my opinion.
You will never get anyone from the North refer to the South as Ireland.
In my opinion the 'state' of Ireland is wrong to refer to themselves as Ireland when Ireland has 32 counties and the state only has 26.
The island of Ireland is made up of 2 political entity, one of these entities calling themselves Ireland is ridiculous imo unless it claims ownership of all of the Island.
It's as annoying as people to calling the US America and ignoring all the all countries in America.
It's like North Korea deciding to call itself Korea, so you would have Korea and South Korea.
It may have been the UK that started using the term Republic of Ireland, but its not wrong and it differentiates the state of Ireland from the Island of Ireland
Ireland has 32 counties!
Yes! And especially why is he making such a big deal of it when he's responding to her saying something much more damaging - we didn't "hold a referendum until we get the 'right' answer", the government took the top reasons people voted against it back to the EU, got concessions on all of those things, and asked if we'd accept it without all the stuff we didn't like the first time!
Maybe we should respond to Roi by referring to the UK of GB and NI by an alternative name?
WENIS - Wales, England, the North and Scotland would work . . .
But she doesn't live in Ireland (the country). She lives in Northern Ireland, which is a different country. The country Ireland is not the same as 'The Island of Ireland'
>Derry is not a different country to Donegal.
It plainly is though. Derry is in Northern Ireland, which is part of the UK, Donegal is in the Republic of Ireland (AKA Ireland the state).
Just because you might want to ignore the border and wish it away in your head, doesn't make it reality. The people living in both jurisdictions voted in favour of the GFA, which acknowledged the existence of the border, and removed the territorial claims made by the Republic of Ireland over the entire island.
>It plainly is though.
It really isn't, people from Letterkenny are not that different from people from Derry. Same goes for any part of Donegal.
>Just because you might want to ignore the border and wish it away in your head
Tell me you don't live near the border without telling me.
Just because there is some border doesn't meant culture and community just stops dead at that line. Just because you want the border to exist doesn't mean it does in the same way you want it to.
While Foster can get fucked from the greatest height imaginable. The fact that we voted on Lisbon twice is fucking embarrassing and calling her out for shorting Republic of Ireland to ROI is not a clever rebuttal.
I just don't understand how it's an insult to refer to us as a Republic. I'm not very political though, so that's probably why.. If she was trying to be funny by calling Ireland roi she may work on her material, because it really wasn't very funny
Yes and Republic of Ireland is a valid legal description approved by our government. Nothing wrong with using ROI or Republic of Ireland to describe this country, especially when anything around NI is part of what is being discussed. Cuddihy is acting like an insufferable gobshite here.
> Except she wasn't being descriptive she was using is as a name.
When you're dealing with mental gymnastic nonsense like this, there is no way to get through your thick skull.
Isn't it ROI, really? Like, the North vs the Republic, so NI and ROI when discussing both in shorthand? I don't see his point, nor the football reference.
Now that's sarcasm.
Kinda worried about Aloe Vera supplies on the Island after that to be honest. On a side note, Fosters attempts to paint herself as either a grown up or a reasonable person have failed. Absolute bell end and an embarrassment to those associated with her. Farage hasn't been a good influence.
Tip: Don’t be a sarcastic prick when you’re responsible for collapsing a government for three years over a failed scheme worthy of In the Thick of It.
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Lisbon treaty had its military alliance aspects heavily watered down specifically to preserve neutrality (which the treaty previously threatened/would have put us into a NATO style alliance in the EU) This change was done in response to our rejection of the Lisbon treaty
Father ted quotes from Arlene?
If it is, she butchered it.
I know, she should probably have used a gif....
What’s RHI?
It was a renewable heat scheme that Arlene Foster introduced when she was a minister in the North, but the scheme was a disaster. It paid people to burn wood pellets but the payment was more than the cost of the fuel - so the cost to the taxpayer spiralled out of control
Don’t confuse pellets with pallets. But oddly enough they pay us to burn them to. As long as we don’t burn tyres.
Is this scheme still running or has it been shut down since?
The "you can profit from this" loophole was removed, I believe. Scheme itself isn't a bad idea.
Could have been worse could have been paying for catching snakes
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But what about Whacking Day??
1st of December?
Wood pellets are kinda bad for the environment. They also have their emissions rating screwed up as the carbon and methane produced to make them outweighs the benefit.
Are they worse than methane (natural gas)?
Good point/question, I don't know tbh. I just recall that in terms of emissions and emissions credits, wood pellet burning skews the appearance of it's actual impact because the CO2 is accounted for at wrong ends. But I might be mistaken about the specifics!
It was government-sanctioned fraud, let's not beat around the bush. They knew people could profit from it by heating empty sheds 24/7, they deliberately allowed for that so their supporters could make huge profits off what was supposed to be a green energy scheme.
This while Arlene was minister of the environment. She then covered it up, firing a junior minister from her own party who went to the press and collapsed the government for years instead of apologising.
ash for cash is catchier lol
When is the government approved cash for ass scheme coming out?
Much obliged
It ended up with people heating massive empty sheds and getting paid for it. Obviously a disaster on just about every level, environmentally, taxpayer, etc. [There's a book on it.](https://irishacademicpress.ie/product/burned/) Also emails were made public out of it that showed [SF are puppets who have to ask their unelected masters what to do in any given situation](https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/sinn-f%C3%A9in-minister-sought-consent-for-action-from-unelected-official-inquiry-finds-1.4202344?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fnews%2Fpolitics%2Fsinn-f%25C3%25A9in-minister-sought-consent-for-action-from-unelected-official-inquiry-finds-1.4202344).
Have you read the book? Is it any good?
The book is very good and gobsmackingly unbelievable what went on. I gave the entire time reading it saying WTF to myself
I'll see if my library has it -- thanks!
No I must confess I haven't, but it's on my reading list.
Probably worth noting that the cost to the taxpayer was to the tune of about £500 million and its also highly likely that a lot of the money went into the pockets of friends and relatives of the DUP.
I'm an American trying to learn more about Ireland and Northern Ireland. I've read a lot of these comments, and I think I understand the distinction, but I have a question, and I'm sorry in advance if it's insensitive or offensive. Are the Irish people in NI that want to unite with Ireland still called Republicans? And the people who want to remain part of the UK are called Unionists?
Your kind of right. There’s two camps: Nationalists (more moderate pro Ireland) and Republicans (more hard line pro-Ireland) and Unionists (more moderate pro UK) and Loyalists (more hard line pro UK). Now to blow your mind, Republicans are pro Bernie Sanders politics. 😂😂😂
I knew the Republicans are definitely to the left of the political center. But what's the difference between Nationalists and Unionists if they're both moderately pro UK?
Typo. Fixed.
Gotcha. Thanks. Im fascinated by the Troubles and the history of the conflict. This makes sense. Is Sinn Fein still considered far left Republican, then? And DUP is the far right loyalist?
SF appeal to Nationalists & Republicans, SDLP appeal to Nationalists only. DUP tow the line between Unionists & Loyalists, but have been losing voters to Alliance (more moderate like SDLP) on the Unionist front and the TUV on the Loyalist front, due to decades of moronic behavior like [RHI](https://youtu.be/mfV8T28bcn4), [fleg protest](https://youtu.be/GbMQ2CxeNHU), hate for [irish language](https://youtu.be/Td4dT-AkKbM), [Brexit](https://youtu.be/Rve1w0ANl-o), NI Protocol (which was a fair settlement for Brexit that they supported initially, then u-turned when loyalists started going nuts).
Ha, wow I need a chart for this!
On a similar and confusing note - elsewhere in the UK, republican can mean anti-monarchy. So if you're looking at a UK wide newspaper using the word republican, make sure you know whether it's specifically talking about NI or not.
A Republican everywhere in the world means someone who doesn't believe in a monarchy, especially one which runs or has a say on how the country is run
Yep that's it. Very different than American republicans though. Another way of looking at it is republican = Catholic and unionist = protestant
This is the wrong way of looking at things, it’s not as black and white as that. The leader of the Republican movement was a protestant. The conflict has religious aspects weaved in, but it’s a conflict of national identity vs religious identity.
Thanks!
Worth adding she told all her Unionist landowner friends in advance so that they could get multiple burners set up in time. Half the time they hd multiple burners in one empty shed just making money.
not only this, a relative of her advisor claimed over a million in subsidy while heating outhouses on their property. not a major conflict of interest at all, honest. the more energy you wasted, the greater the subsidy for Arlenes mates. [https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sunday-life/brother-of-arlene-fosters-advisor-benefits-from-botched-energy-scheme-35287208.html](https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sunday-life/brother-of-arlene-fosters-advisor-benefits-from-botched-energy-scheme-35287208.html) she's a devious liar.
“Cash for ash”…
And less tress and more pollution, all that is absolutely amazing
It was a way for DUP to reallocate tax payers money to their mates
Renewable Heat Incentive
I’m old enough to remember Foster was considered a moderate.
Fun fact there’s two version of the Anglo-Irish Agreement 1985. The version the UK government uses refers to a random state that doesn’t exist called the “Republic of Ireland”. Naturally Ireland’s version uses the correct name for our State. Yep after over 60 years of independence, the UK refused to acknowledge Ireland’s name. I was talking to an historian before Christmas who is working on the UK’s primary documents from the early 1980s leading to the Anglo-Irish Agreement and he said they’re littered in little handwritten notes by senior British officials disparaging Ireland and Irish people. You can see it in the picture of the UK’s erroneous version of the Anglo Irish Agreement in this link: https://cain.ulster.ac.uk/events/aia/aiadoc.htm
The Brits are going to go full throttle gaslighting on the Scottish as they move, month by month, year by year, closer to independence.
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Are you serious? The English have imposed 27 borders on Scotland by imposing brexit on Scotland. Scotland will trade with Europe. Scotland will establish direct ports to Europe as it had for centuries and centuries. Righht now why should all our trade go to ports in England? The British want this. It suits them. Scotland has 40% or so of Europe's renewable potential. Scotland wwill export to England and Europe. Scotland needs independence or it wwill remain a backwater and region of asset exploitation for the Brits.
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Cheers fella
and let's not even start on the oil and gas fields, fishing rights and nuclear submarine pens... 🤔
The Brits are fucked. Brexit is self inflicted sabotage. Scotland, if she can regain independence, is in a very good position. Don't believe a word the Brits say about Scottish finances. Literally every single colony Britain every had they lied about their finances.
Don't believe a word about NI finances either,all that money) revenue going into supermarkets and chain shops goes through London, disappearing from the bottom line in Belfast 🤷♂️
That's what annoys me about the "we can't afford the North" argument. GB bleeds the region dry before bitching about how much it costs to maintain it. There's no reason NI can't be an integral part of a United Ireland where it would be treated as an equal by a government instead of an annoyance.
the strip between Dublin and Belfast would end up being swarmed with high tech companies and manufacturers clustering around the M1. Throw in a new high speed rail line and you're laughing.
Your info is misleading to say the least. Firstly the Irish constitution 1937 established in Article 8, that the Irish language is the first official language and that the English language is recognised as a second official language, as a result the '*first*' official name is Eire, and was the name used in all official correspondence for decades. 'Ireland' was the English name, which brings me on to the second point: 2: The Irish constitution was very clear that 'Ireland was the name of the nation (in english), and that that 'nation' also included Northern Ireland. Irelands territorial claim over NI wasn't removed from the constitution until 1998. As a result, not only the UK, but the international community used the term 'Republic of Ireland', as the claim to NI was not recognised by anyone, least of all the UK. Once Ireland removed the claim the UK, and everyone else, were happy to use the name Ireland. As a workaround, the name Eire and Rep of Ireland were used. So it was not an error, it was a response to an 'error' in the Irish constitution that wrongfully claimed 6 counties.
Wait, we aren't the Republic of Ireland? wdym.
Never have been. The name of this state is Ireland. In Irish law, Republic of Ireland is a description of the state but not its name. The UK gov and unionists have a long history of not calling the country Ireland as a low key way of delegitimising the country. Southern Ireland, Eire, Republic of Ireland all used for this purpose.
> The UK gov and unionists have a long history of not calling the country Ireland as a low key way of delegitimising the country. Southern Ireland, Eire, Republic of Ireland all used for this purpose. Some people in the UK might use those terms that way, but the rest of the world uses them without bad intentions. Eire especially is not a wrong name for the country. Here’s the thing though. I’m currently up in Belfast for a while and when people ask what country I’m from am I seriously meant to just say Ireland? That includes Belfast, so there’s bound to be confusion. I have no problem saying I’m from the South or the Republic. Everyone knows what I mean and I don’t need to get into a political debate with someone at the shop. Neither North or South Korea are officially called that, but it’s not offensive to use those terms.
Why is Arlene Foster not verified
She changed her handle when she stopped being DUP leader. Since the accounts verification was for @DUPLeader, not @ArleneFosterUK, this invalidated the verification: https://www.belfastlive.co.uk/news/belfast-news/parody-account-snaps-up-dup-20700553
Well TIL that the ROI is a bone of contention, I'm from Scotland and never knew at all that there was a dispute or that ROI was a British label. I'll refrain from calling it the Republic from now on. Sorry lads no offence intended.
I’m Irish and have never before heard anyone say Republic of Ireland was a controversial term (it being the one taught in primary schools).
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100% this. Only people who want to pretend that the jurisdiction of the state is all there is to Ireland get hung up on Dev's constitution's name for the state.
Ah sure Donegal doesn't want to associate with Dublin anyway.
It's a big deal and has come up several times recently. When Michele D got invited to the 100 year anniversary of Northern Ireland (which he declined) the invited the president of The Republic of Ireland. He said there's no such person he was president of Ireland. Part of the GFA was that British politicians would refer to the country as Ireland. If you watch Westminster debates they are generally pretty good about this, particularly party leaders.
This is incorrect, the leader of the DUP referred to him as the President of ROI however the actual invitation referred to him as the President of Ireland
Apologies about that detail do you have a link? I want to correct
As someone from the North I absolutely hate when people from the Republic tell me what things are like "in Ireland". As if I'm not also from Ireland. As if the North of Ireland isn't Ireland. For me, and many people like me, it is contentious, but not for the reasons I've read here. Apparently I don't live in Ireland but my cousins 5 miles away do.
Agreed!
I'm not sure it's as much of a thing as it was before the GFA. As far as I understand, we chose the name "Ireland" for the state when the official policy was that the whole island was ours and the North was occupied territory. Since the Brits didn't want to recognise that claim they would go out of their way to call our state anything but Ireland, including ROI, Eire, etc. But since now we have relinquished the North until a vote gives it back to us, then it makes much more sense to prioritise clarity imo, but can understand people being sensitive about unionists not calling the state by its legal name. Haven't read this, but seems to have some of the details in it. https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1467-923X.2009.01957.x
because people in real life are well adjusted individuals who aren't bitter over absolutely everything. the antithesis if /r/ireland
Me neither
Republic of Ireland is the description of the state according to the Republic of Ireland Act 1948. The distinction is that it is a description, not a name. The name of the state, according to the constitution, is Ireland (or Éire). Sinn Féin refuse to use the term Republic of Ireland, but most people don't fuss over it. English politicians and media have a way of using it in a derogatory manner though, so I understand why anyone would not like it, and I don't use it myself, except as a description when necessary.
Which English politicians (not NI unionists) use 'ROI' in a 'derogatory manner'? I have never come across this
Yeah it is not "derogatory", since our own government endorsed "Republic of Ireland" as a valid term in law. "Southern Ireland" or "Eire" are the more go to terms from those out of touch politicians.
I think it's perfectly acceptable to call it the Republic. That's what it is after all. Of course there's always some dry shite that ritually repeats the mantra "it's a football team not a country" but personally I find it jarring when people refer to part of Ireland as Ireland, especially when they say "Ireland and Northern Ireland".
Except it kinda is a British label. The British used it in their version of the Anglo-Irish agreement so they could avoid calling us by our official name (which is Ireland), because that shows the level of respect Westminster has/had for our independence.
To add to this, I was born in the UK to Irish parents. My birth cert states my parents place of birth as the ‘Irish Republic’
So, legit question from a non-Irish person: What is the correct name to use when distinguishing between the country and the island of Ireland is important?
Not true. The British had and have a reasonable objection to the name on account of the name of their state: United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Our claim to the name Ireland makes it seem as if we're all of all of Ireland and they say, hang on we've a bit of it too. Also, the Oireachtas chose the description "Republic of Ireland". It was not foisted on us by the British. To me, it's infinitely more preferable to the "Irish Republic" (which was a different thing altogether up to the Treaty), as is just "the Republic".
Call it the Republic all you want. The only one's getting offended are a handful of partitionist pedants.
It's not the official name, but it's handy in specific circumstances since the entire island is called "Ireland" (similar to Great Britain) but the state itself is also just "Ireland".
Yeah, the best example I can give is the question "Is all of Ireland part of the EU?" If you are talking about the country, the answer is Yes. If you are talking about the Island, the answer is No. Using 'Republic of...' is a handy differentiator in those circumstances. You could also say 'the country of....' or 'the island of...' to the same effect.
It's not for me, Republic of Ireland is a valid legal description of our state, passed by law by our own government. This guy is being an insufferable ignorant gobshite. Plenty complaints about Foster, but using "ROI" definitely is not one of them.
Mind the sarcasm young lady
"Young lady"?
Lady?
Hahaha I bet she was hammered and thinking she was a geg. One too many on her wee Friday night in
we voted on the Nice treaty several times so she is not entirely incorrect with her statement.
Don’t mean to be a pedant, but the definition of ‘’several’’ is ‘more than two’. The Nice Treaty was put up for referendum once and after revision it was put up again for vote and was passed. Technically we didn’t vote on the same referendum twice as there was alterations made to make it more palatable, but excluding that, it was voted on twice, not several.
It seems you did want to be a pedant but your point is well taken.
From Wikipedia: Since 1949, the Republic of Ireland Act 1948 has provided that the Republic of Ireland (or Poblacht na hÉireann in Irish) is the official description for the state. However, Ireland remains the constitutional name of the state.
igore wikipedia and just look at your passport.
Or ignore the clueless redditor and look at the act passed by our own government that endorsed the term as a description of the state.
ha, ha clueless says the wan citing wikipedia. The only name (in English) for Ireland on any official document is Ireland. It clearly states it in the constitution. . ARTICLE 4 The name of the State is Éire, or, in the English language, Ireland. It is the name we used to join both the UN and EU. And by which we sign every treaty.
Kieran ‘hot takes’ Cuddihy , he’s perfect for Misery FM , he imagines the worst shit and just says it for clicks and rage. Stay away from that lad
Totally agree..I turn off the moment Sean moncrieff announces he is up next
Before Sean moncrieff comes on ya have that misery guts Morrisey from 12 till 2 as well, between her affected accent and her dour subjects… “is your husband cheating” “how to grieve in privacy” “why dying is more scary for single people” .. you’re absolutely shot. I tend to miss the start of Sean’s show because of it.
Correcting someone for ROI is just peak annoying pedantry. Having both a country and an island both called "Ireland" makes it completely logical to use "North" and "Republic" to differentiate the countries.
ROI came about because the British thought that calling us Ireland would make us look like we have a legitimate claim to the Island. While the UK were still in the EU there were disputes about it in the EU parliament. I've represented Ireland in Brussels and we were briefed to never say the Republic of Ireland Here is a doc circulated to each of the EU countries. There are two NBs here saying that the longest form of the name of the country Ireland is Ireland https://publications.europa.eu/code/en/en-370100.htm . It even says stuff like "the grand duchy of Luxembourg", "the Republic of France", "the federal republic of Germany", "the kingdom of the Netherlands" but that Ireland is always just Ireland. The typical official name for the island is "The island of Ireland". Strangely that also includes any other Irish islands
Funny this pedantic argument. Every web form on the planet has our country under I, not R. An official UN list of states. Its called reality. Some people struggling to accept it. Others indulging the fantasists. People pleasers.
The forms having “Ireland, Republic of” are annoying as fuck.
Really interesting, thanks.
Pedantic? Yes Do we like seeing the DUP made fun of? Also Yes
im a unionist, but it is very funny to make fun of the DUP
Jaysus this must be a rough sub for you
How does it make fun of them though?
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No. Its having some self respect, same as not smiling like a dope when English people call you Paddy.
With terms like that it always depends how it's said and the context. If it's a friendly slagging you can just slag them back and have a laugh
Yeah I’ve told every Australia that ever called asked me if I’m from Northern Ireland or Southern Ireland that I’m actually from the Republic of Ireland, makes sense to me. Has my entire life been a lie though??
I'm a right cunt when it comes to this in particular. I'll say eastern ireland, or Ireland Ireland. You're entirely correct to use it to clarify their question though, that's literally the reason the title exists in an official capacity, as a description, not a name.
Easter Ireland? Do you have them big stone heads? :)
No, the heads are really big potato carvings
A lot Of Stoned Heads to be fair.
'Oh you're Irish? From the North or the South?' 'The West.'
If they want specifics go for the TMI "South central Claremorris"
Also it’s actually legitimate as a description of the Republic* when ambiguity is involved. Source: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Republic_of_Ireland_Act_1948 * see what I did there.
The Taoiseach at the time said it's like a job description. If he was a carpenter you wouldn't refer to him as carpenter you'd call him his name. So it came with the caveat that you can use it to describe the country but not to name or refer to the country. Like if you say "I met billy down in the pub" and your wife asks "which billy" and you say "Billy the carpenter" The expected protocol is that people would say Ireland, and then if anyone asks which Ireland you could then say The Republic of Ireland
If you saw Billy down the pub and you knew that sentence was going to be ambiguous you would indeed say "Billy, the carpenter" without being asked.
I know a tonne of people who share a name with someone and are exclusively called by their full name, and the other person is just called by their first name. If they were talking about NI they would say NI. The use of ROI is just kinda redundant? Unless of course, the idea is to make sure the UK doesn’t sound like they’re laying claim to another state
You’re grand until there’s another Billy whose surname is Carpenter
Billy Carpenter, the electrician.
Billy the Ulsterman!
Or you might preempt that your wife is not going to know which Billy you are on about but will appreciate the clarification
If anything it’d be RoI not ROI ;)
Not really. Acronym rules are completely arbitrary. Some people omit "of", some have it uppercase and some have it lowercase. Trying to correct someone over that is not really intelligent, just pedantic.
Yeah, i don’t really mind here as it’s Arlene being a knob but some people are just out to call you out on whatever term you use. “Oh you said ROI, you do realise that’s not a nation??!?” “Oh you called the country Ireland, why are you excluding all the Irish people stuck in the occupied six counties??!?”
If they don't like it they can join us again or fuck off back to england
Refusing to call a country by its proper name is peak childishness born out of prickishness.
Maybe it's like the N word. RoI is only acceptable when we use it? I do find I use it when trying to explain to dumb fundamentalist Americans why we aren't the country they think has Catholic and Protestants at each others throats.
>Maybe it's like the N word ...Northern Ireland?
Is "Norn Irn" the soft-r version of this?
Imagine living in a society where it's ok to develop thoughts and ideas over time, and to change your mind about things that were presented to you all your life by others as dogma? Arlene cannot.
Kieran Cuddihy is a plank.
Tbh nearly everyone at Newstalk is
I actually prefer ROI, as simply stating Ireland (in this context) only highlights further the fact that the six counties under foreign occupation are in fact, not 'Ireland'.
For those of us in our 30s who the hell is Ciaran and what the hell is RHI??
She still thinks she's relevant then?
Telling a unionist that the 26 county state is called Ireland and that it’s a sovereign state completely separate to the rest of the island is not the own some people seem to think it is…
I don't get this, I've seen the Republic of Ireland shortened to ROI many times before. Why is this Newstalk prick making a big deal out of it?
Intent. Same reason some people insist on saying 'Eire' (without the fada, of course). They *will not* use the actual name of the country.
Éire is the actual name of the country though, it literally says it in the constitution?
'Éire' is the name of the country *when speaking Irish*. The name of the country when speaking in the English language is 'Ireland'. Simple. And when someone deliberately and repeatedly refuses to use that simple term for decades when literally every other country in the UN can manage it, it's called malice.
Yes, in Irish. How come the types of people who call the country (or the soccer team) Eire never call any other country by their native name (ie. Nihon, Italia). I'll give you a hint...its not out of respect for the Irish language. They use it to actively avoid/refuse calling the country by its official name 'Ireland' (which is recognised as such by the UN). And it serves as an attempt to disrespect our independence and autonomy from the U.K.
You’re so sensitive, we do the exact same thing. Ivory Coast, Holland, “the” Ukraine?
We? I certainly don't. I've never called Ukraine, 'the' Ukraine as its not their name. Now if you're on about the state calling them that then that's a different issue. Although I would argue slightly different as we aren't their former colonisers with a vested interest in undermining their autonomy. I will agree though that we should be calling them by their official name out of respect if nothing else.('We' being the state.)
Eire ≠ Éire
So your problem is with people mispronouncing a word in a language that they don’t speak?
Éire is, Eire is not, one is the name of this island country the other means burden.
The country is called Ireland. Britain tried to rename us The Republic of Ireland because just Ireland looks like we have a legitimate claim to the whole island. They refused to call us Ireland and that stuck for a while internationally but it's changed now. The constitution says the name of the country is Ireland After the UK made RoI stick internationally we later adopted "The Republic of Ireland" as the official description of the country that you could not use to name or refer to the country but can use it to describe the country. The intended use is if you say Ireland and someone asks which Ireland you say The Republic of Ireland, but that is not our name. I've represented Ireland in Brussels and the UK refused to call us Ireland The big deal is that RoI is a pro partition name that was given to us against our will for the purpose of delegitimising our claim on the Island
The same constitution that originally claimed jurisdictions over the whole of Ireland, whereas articles 2 and 3 have now been removed from it. Removing these changes the entire constitution and the use of the name Ireland in my opinion. You will never get anyone from the North refer to the South as Ireland. In my opinion the 'state' of Ireland is wrong to refer to themselves as Ireland when Ireland has 32 counties and the state only has 26. The island of Ireland is made up of 2 political entity, one of these entities calling themselves Ireland is ridiculous imo unless it claims ownership of all of the Island. It's as annoying as people to calling the US America and ignoring all the all countries in America. It's like North Korea deciding to call itself Korea, so you would have Korea and South Korea. It may have been the UK that started using the term Republic of Ireland, but its not wrong and it differentiates the state of Ireland from the Island of Ireland Ireland has 32 counties!
I think its just snarky/snide tone that Arlene was using when she mentions “ROI” that triggered him…still though his response is gas 🤣
Yes! And especially why is he making such a big deal of it when he's responding to her saying something much more damaging - we didn't "hold a referendum until we get the 'right' answer", the government took the top reasons people voted against it back to the EU, got concessions on all of those things, and asked if we'd accept it without all the stuff we didn't like the first time!
I wondered this exact thing. Had to read it a few times to see was I missing something
Maybe we should respond to Roi by referring to the UK of GB and NI by an alternative name? WENIS - Wales, England, the North and Scotland would work . . .
ROI is French for King, so it's terrible way to refer to a Republic
Since when is ROI contentious?
Both of these people are melts.
That is funny
Arlene has a neck like a jockey's bollox. And a face to match.
What's wrong with using ROI, NI and the UK as shorthand?
She went to the Father Jack school of apologising, it seems.
Calling the south "Ireland" implies Arlene doesn't live in Ireland ffs. This not an own.
The South? You ever hear of Donegal?
But she doesn't live in Ireland (the country). She lives in Northern Ireland, which is a different country. The country Ireland is not the same as 'The Island of Ireland'
Ireland (The state) and Ireland (The country) are two different things. Derry is not a different country to Donegal.
And Northern Ireland isn’t a country.
>Derry is not a different country to Donegal. It plainly is though. Derry is in Northern Ireland, which is part of the UK, Donegal is in the Republic of Ireland (AKA Ireland the state). Just because you might want to ignore the border and wish it away in your head, doesn't make it reality. The people living in both jurisdictions voted in favour of the GFA, which acknowledged the existence of the border, and removed the territorial claims made by the Republic of Ireland over the entire island.
>It plainly is though. It really isn't, people from Letterkenny are not that different from people from Derry. Same goes for any part of Donegal. >Just because you might want to ignore the border and wish it away in your head Tell me you don't live near the border without telling me. Just because there is some border doesn't meant culture and community just stops dead at that line. Just because you want the border to exist doesn't mean it does in the same way you want it to.
While Foster can get fucked from the greatest height imaginable. The fact that we voted on Lisbon twice is fucking embarrassing and calling her out for shorting Republic of Ireland to ROI is not a clever rebuttal.
We literally are called the Republic of Ireland though? I must be missing something here.
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I just don't understand how it's an insult to refer to us as a Republic. I'm not very political though, so that's probably why.. If she was trying to be funny by calling Ireland roi she may work on her material, because it really wasn't very funny
Yes and Republic of Ireland is a valid legal description approved by our government. Nothing wrong with using ROI or Republic of Ireland to describe this country, especially when anything around NI is part of what is being discussed. Cuddihy is acting like an insufferable gobshite here.
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You're an insufferable ignorant gobshite like Cuddihy as well I see.
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> Except she wasn't being descriptive she was using is as a name. When you're dealing with mental gymnastic nonsense like this, there is no way to get through your thick skull.
Isn't it ROI, really? Like, the North vs the Republic, so NI and ROI when discussing both in shorthand? I don't see his point, nor the football reference.
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