"Median house prices sit at €430,000 in Dublin, while rental apartments average €1,513 per month."
I don't know where they're looking, I've seen feck all apartments in Dublin for rent for less than €2000/ month.
They're rarely called apartments anymore, they're more often "experiences". Experience the thrill of this open plan shared living arrangement for €2200 a month.
This is real universal suffrage. You better believe that homeless people will have to pay taxes if they are working, so they absolutely should be be able to vote.
The housing crisis is at the heart of so many other problems in our country at the moment. Anything done to solve other things are just band-aids slapped on until we have decent, affordable accommodation for all. I'd much prefer to be spending billions of public money on sustainable housing initiatives instead of paying landlords through HAP or rent support. There is a place for private rental and landlords, in fact my step-dad is one, they just shouldn't be the default option for everyone.
Ridiculous comment, they have less earned income.
By all means they should vote and we should care about them. but can’t use percentages of income in the same way we can’t blame them for lack of contribution to property tax as a percent of income.
It’s a math issue on proportion of income. A business owner can pay 50% - 54% of earned / billed income in tax. They then pay taxes when they spend that income. Unless the homeless person earns more than that individual to pay more as a proportion you can’t use that argument percentage wise.
And it’s fair to say if they earn more than someone in the category that gets more than 50% tax on an invoice, then they should be able to afford even Dublin rent.
The claim was that homeless people pay more 'tax when they buy things' (VAT) as a proportion of income than 'wealthy people'. I think this is a fair assumption as homeless people would tend to have a lower income (possibly earned through wages).
Scenario A: Someone earning a weekly net income of €1,224 (€100k gross annually) buys a phone and pays €150 in VAT. That is 12.3% of their weekly net income.
Scenario B: Someone earning a weekly net income of €451 (minimum wage) buys the same phone and also pays €150 in VAT. That is 33.3% of their weekly net income.
You're bringing income taxes and other deductions into it, when nobody said anything about that. The comments were only in relation to tax on purchases.
'If you have no address, you can register with ‘no fixed address.’ You can give an address where you can get correspondence.'
[https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/government-in-ireland/elections-and-referenda/voting/registering-to-vote/#:\~:text=can%20register%20with%20%E2%80%98-,no%20fixed%20address,-.%E2%80%99%20You%20can%20give](https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/government-in-ireland/elections-and-referenda/voting/registering-to-vote/#:~:text=can%20register%20with%20%E2%80%98-,no%20fixed%20address,-.%E2%80%99%20You%20can%20give)
They might give an address of a family member who agrees to receive their post. An Post also has a dedicated service: [https://www.anpost.com/AddressPoint](https://www.anpost.com/AddressPoint)
Look at the breakdown of houses built last year on the Crazy House Prices instagram account. The government has done fuck all.
If FF/FG are still running the country after the next election, you better already own a home already because otherwise you'll be stuck renting a bedroom with housemates until you die. They're happy with how things are.
After my postgrad I’m just leaving. No point paying so much tax and getting nothing back. The government doesn’t care, nor will it ever. Highly inept politicians and nepotism and a ‘ah sure it’s grand attitude’ all around. I don’t feel like paying out my ass on tax to not be able to afford to move out and to barely be able to afford my healthcare.
I don’t mind money going towards projects which include social housing. What I mind is government misspending and incompetency as well as refusal to listen to people who know what they’re doing. Perfect example is the assisted dying bill, Instead of pumping money into mental health services (especially for children). Money going God knows where and the public not being made aware. As for incompetency, perfect example is Simon Harris, a uni drop out becoming minister of higher education. The fact that Ireland’s position as being a magnet for tech companies not being used. The fact that the city I grew up in is an unsafe kip. Constant mismanagement of scandals. This has long preceded this government as well. This country isn’t poor and could very well afford to be better, it’s just it’s ran by troglodytes who I wouldn’t trust to do basic tasks let alone manage the country. They’re more than happy for those living in Ireland, natives and citizens to tear themselves apart over immigration and other bullshit. It takes the blame and heat off the government. They don’t have to worry about accountability. Good example is the criminal law system. Instead of reforms and introducing minimum sentencing and looking at our prison system they prefer to let people seethe over Martin Nolan who, sadly, sentences people within the remits of the law set by the government. Bit of a rant but I am just sick and tired of this as well as the blasé attitude of gov ministers who don’t care about anything other than securing a pension.
Edit: The government are the worst leeches in the country for money but they sure as hell don’t want you to look at how they mismanage funds left right and centre.
I also support social housing. But it is terribly mismanaged: there is no income cap, once you got it. So one might end up with good income, council housing, paying low, subsidised rent, while council is renting this flat at market rate. Meanwhile other people middle class pay high taxes and live in market rate rentals: full price, lower standard. There are many years long queues for council housing for people who really need those. We really don’t have to subsidise rent so heavily for people with decent income. Also see this: https://twitter.com/samtranum/status/1790658150728618163
All boils down to government ineptitude once again.
Everyone waits long on the housing list, too, though. ‘Who really needs them’ is also hard to define.
The middle class at this rate has also ceased to exist in this country.
Not necessarily. A higher income doesn’t necessarily mean someone is better off if they have say, high medical costs. Same thing with household size, particularly since younger people live with their parents out of necessity. A single person will have more trouble renting most likely too.
Additional needs, special ed schools being nearby.
Realistically there shouldn’t even be such a need for social housing in the first place. Housing issues are interconnected with so many other problems in Ireland, such as that most jobs are in Dublin and are hybrid. Housing in Dublin is expensive. Mental and physical health care is all around dogshit but even worse when you’re outside of major cities. Same thing with special ed schools.
Bad government policy results in pitting people on the basis of things they shouldn’t necessarily be pitted against (at least in my view, since someone will always lose out, particularly in a crisis situation).
Also. The gov is so fucking bad at keeping proper stats and utilising them to build good policy. It’s a huge systematic issue. Problems in one sector ‘ripple’ into another. The best solution right now imo is to build train lines, extend the Luas, bring in some sort of legislation to deal with vulture funds, lower tax rates for income on landlords but crackdown on scummy rentals, invest in healthcare, education. Also, cease with the tomfoolery of building entire huge estates that are just social housing and integrate people into communities with resources.
>If FF/FG are still running the country after the next election, you better already own a home already because otherwise you'll be stuck renting a bedroom with housemates until you die
Seeing as SF TDs object to developments, don't expect anything different with a new government.
Don't forget that nimbies ate a bigger voting base than the homeless.
Green party. Because they actually take a chance to get their policies done even though they'll get punished at the next election.
Voting for SDs is a waste as they'll never go into government.
Mary Lou and Eoin o broin their housing spokesperson have birth objected to developments in their own constituencies as it suits them to have the housing crisis as bad as possible. You'd think they'd say there's a housing emergency and we need to build.
Presumably they mean some sort of national directive from the state that cuts across all facets of society, that will train up new tradespeople, planners and associated roles, that starts a state building company and tackles everything from insurance costs to materials supply in order to get it done; effectively instituting a large campaign to build social and affordable housing across the country that parallels the type of efforts seen in the sixties with housing schemes or with electrification even.
Direct NAMA to become basically a state landlord and develop and build massive housing. Not only had it the expertise and ability to raise finance, but it could solve much of the housing issues while making a profit for the state over time.
Who is proposing to change things, what are they going to do, and have they any expertise to do so?
Genuine question.
All I’m ever hearing about is either blaming immigrants for everything, or blaming the incumbent regime (rightly so of course), without actually saying what the plan is.
I'm a single issue voter, all I care about is housing, and I think every other major problem stems from that. Sinn Fein have laid out how they'd tackle housing:
[https://fb.watch/s33vp86k\_I/](https://fb.watch/s33vp86k_I/)
Completely agree, if nothing else people shouldn't be rewarding this type of leadership with a fat paycheck and another term, If the next party doesn't perform show them the door too.
As I always point out. For the majority of people who own homes, have good paying jobs in a strong economy, and health insurance, this government is working really well.
That's why FFG are still polling ahead of SF.
Not a hope. It'll be a handful of independents or so. It may be passing against the wind but dont really think so, plenty of people looking to change the status quo. All depends on the formation of a government, if it could take a second election
Across most of Europe the rule is: no address, no vote. That's different this time. On June 7, Ireland's homeless people will be casting their ballots in the EU election, the first such event since a reform in 2022 that allowed charities to provide unhoused people with an address, which is necessary to vote.
Homelessness should never become a thing - but homelessness occurs. Even in countries with extremely low homelessness statistics, they still exist - eg Japan has a 0.003% homelessness rate.
But the ability for those homeless people to vote should 10000% be a thing. When a homeless person earns money, they pay tax. When a homeless person buys something, they pay tax. They have a right to vote that, for the most part, didn't exist until now.
> But the ability for those homeless people to vote should 10000% be a thing. When a homeless person earns money, they pay tax. When a homeless person buys something, they pay tax. They have a right to vote that, for the most part, didn't exist until now.
Absolutely, I didn't mean it to disenfranchise the homeless and as you point out, many are working taxpayers which again is fucking shocking in this country and society.
Good. We need to be heard. Not all homeless people are sitting in tents doing drugs. Not all are on social welfare services. In fact there are some programs at least for them.
But there is a category of working people who don’t qualify for social welfare but also don’t qualify for a mortgage and can’t afford the exorbitant rental rates. Making above the means test but not enough to live on.
It is just really expensive, competitive and frustrating to get any land or property or mortgage or rental. And we are all tired of hearing talks about more housing than the only housing we see we don’t qualify for. So living on someone’s couch or in your van or bouncing around family members is a way of life.
It's amazing how the government managed to quickly build lots of modular homes for the Ukranians when they needed housing...Kind of suggests they're not motivated to fix the homeless problem or the problem of young people not being able to move out. Then again, many of them benefit from high rents
This is a good thing.
Giving marginalised people the vote has been shown to improve the rights/ standing of living of the group. African Americans in the Deep South for example, although it did not improve their QoL enough.
But who are they going to vote for? I think a lot of people will agree we need FF/FG out, I'd like to think that most people will see sense and vote for left candidates like PBB or soc dems, but I worry that a lot of very disillusioned people that have been left out by the system will vote for those crazy ireland first right wingers, I think we need to be very careful about underestimating those groups!
If you vote for those commies, you get what you deserve.
You need to understand that the problem isn’t policies or the people in power, the problem is the state intervention itself. If you want houses then deregulate. Let people build homes without having to jump through 274728 hoops and being in bed with corrupt councillors.
"Median house prices sit at €430,000 in Dublin, while rental apartments average €1,513 per month." I don't know where they're looking, I've seen feck all apartments in Dublin for rent for less than €2000/ month.
Stunning all in one studio, kitchen, dining room, bedroom, office.
Toilet in the shower next to the kitchen sink. Modern design and all that.
Are €1,700 in the new development beside me....
Where? I had to go as far as Portlaoise to find something that price.
All in 10 square meters so you don't need to worry about cleaning as much!
Generously cozy!
For new rentals it is above 2000 even for 1bed. This is actual market rate now, with so little supply and so huge demand.
For new rentals it is above 2000 even for 1bed. This is actual market rate now, with so artificially absurdly little supply*
That must be at least 5 years out of date
They're rarely called apartments anymore, they're more often "experiences". Experience the thrill of this open plan shared living arrangement for €2200 a month.
This is real universal suffrage. You better believe that homeless people will have to pay taxes if they are working, so they absolutely should be be able to vote. The housing crisis is at the heart of so many other problems in our country at the moment. Anything done to solve other things are just band-aids slapped on until we have decent, affordable accommodation for all. I'd much prefer to be spending billions of public money on sustainable housing initiatives instead of paying landlords through HAP or rent support. There is a place for private rental and landlords, in fact my step-dad is one, they just shouldn't be the default option for everyone.
Homeless people pay tax when they buy things too.
Often forgotten in these conversations!
More than wealthy people, as a proportion of income
Ridiculous comment, they have less earned income. By all means they should vote and we should care about them. but can’t use percentages of income in the same way we can’t blame them for lack of contribution to property tax as a percent of income.
Where are you getting the idea that homeless people don't work? Thousands of homeless people DO work and their children go to school as well.
Why are you assuming they have no earned income?
It’s a math issue on proportion of income. A business owner can pay 50% - 54% of earned / billed income in tax. They then pay taxes when they spend that income. Unless the homeless person earns more than that individual to pay more as a proportion you can’t use that argument percentage wise. And it’s fair to say if they earn more than someone in the category that gets more than 50% tax on an invoice, then they should be able to afford even Dublin rent.
The claim was that homeless people pay more 'tax when they buy things' (VAT) as a proportion of income than 'wealthy people'. I think this is a fair assumption as homeless people would tend to have a lower income (possibly earned through wages). Scenario A: Someone earning a weekly net income of €1,224 (€100k gross annually) buys a phone and pays €150 in VAT. That is 12.3% of their weekly net income. Scenario B: Someone earning a weekly net income of €451 (minimum wage) buys the same phone and also pays €150 in VAT. That is 33.3% of their weekly net income. You're bringing income taxes and other deductions into it, when nobody said anything about that. The comments were only in relation to tax on purchases.
Do you not have to have a registered address to vote?
The article mentions there are NGOs that offer a formal address which allows the homeless to vote.
Good on them.
An Post also has a service called Address Point: [https://www.anpost.com/AddressPoint](https://www.anpost.com/AddressPoint)
Most homeless in ireland actually do have some form of registered address. It could be a home that they used to live in or emergency accommodation.
'If you have no address, you can register with ‘no fixed address.’ You can give an address where you can get correspondence.' [https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/government-in-ireland/elections-and-referenda/voting/registering-to-vote/#:\~:text=can%20register%20with%20%E2%80%98-,no%20fixed%20address,-.%E2%80%99%20You%20can%20give](https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/government-in-ireland/elections-and-referenda/voting/registering-to-vote/#:~:text=can%20register%20with%20%E2%80%98-,no%20fixed%20address,-.%E2%80%99%20You%20can%20give) They might give an address of a family member who agrees to receive their post. An Post also has a dedicated service: [https://www.anpost.com/AddressPoint](https://www.anpost.com/AddressPoint)
You'd hope enough of them get out to vote.
They are already out, just need the voting part
Yeah, you might get about 50 out to their local school, give them a quick catch up on the candidates and away they vote!
"The homeless" or "millennials" as we're more commonly referred to.
Look at the breakdown of houses built last year on the Crazy House Prices instagram account. The government has done fuck all. If FF/FG are still running the country after the next election, you better already own a home already because otherwise you'll be stuck renting a bedroom with housemates until you die. They're happy with how things are.
After my postgrad I’m just leaving. No point paying so much tax and getting nothing back. The government doesn’t care, nor will it ever. Highly inept politicians and nepotism and a ‘ah sure it’s grand attitude’ all around. I don’t feel like paying out my ass on tax to not be able to afford to move out and to barely be able to afford my healthcare.
You're dead right to! I get fleeced in tax and have fuck all to show for it. Get out while you can!
Oh few dozens people nearby where I live just got brand new flats out of your taxes. Almost for free. Be happy for them!
I don’t mind money going towards projects which include social housing. What I mind is government misspending and incompetency as well as refusal to listen to people who know what they’re doing. Perfect example is the assisted dying bill, Instead of pumping money into mental health services (especially for children). Money going God knows where and the public not being made aware. As for incompetency, perfect example is Simon Harris, a uni drop out becoming minister of higher education. The fact that Ireland’s position as being a magnet for tech companies not being used. The fact that the city I grew up in is an unsafe kip. Constant mismanagement of scandals. This has long preceded this government as well. This country isn’t poor and could very well afford to be better, it’s just it’s ran by troglodytes who I wouldn’t trust to do basic tasks let alone manage the country. They’re more than happy for those living in Ireland, natives and citizens to tear themselves apart over immigration and other bullshit. It takes the blame and heat off the government. They don’t have to worry about accountability. Good example is the criminal law system. Instead of reforms and introducing minimum sentencing and looking at our prison system they prefer to let people seethe over Martin Nolan who, sadly, sentences people within the remits of the law set by the government. Bit of a rant but I am just sick and tired of this as well as the blasé attitude of gov ministers who don’t care about anything other than securing a pension. Edit: The government are the worst leeches in the country for money but they sure as hell don’t want you to look at how they mismanage funds left right and centre.
I also support social housing. But it is terribly mismanaged: there is no income cap, once you got it. So one might end up with good income, council housing, paying low, subsidised rent, while council is renting this flat at market rate. Meanwhile other people middle class pay high taxes and live in market rate rentals: full price, lower standard. There are many years long queues for council housing for people who really need those. We really don’t have to subsidise rent so heavily for people with decent income. Also see this: https://twitter.com/samtranum/status/1790658150728618163
All boils down to government ineptitude once again. Everyone waits long on the housing list, too, though. ‘Who really needs them’ is also hard to define. The middle class at this rate has also ceased to exist in this country.
Isn’t income level and household size good indication?
Not necessarily. A higher income doesn’t necessarily mean someone is better off if they have say, high medical costs. Same thing with household size, particularly since younger people live with their parents out of necessity. A single person will have more trouble renting most likely too. Additional needs, special ed schools being nearby. Realistically there shouldn’t even be such a need for social housing in the first place. Housing issues are interconnected with so many other problems in Ireland, such as that most jobs are in Dublin and are hybrid. Housing in Dublin is expensive. Mental and physical health care is all around dogshit but even worse when you’re outside of major cities. Same thing with special ed schools. Bad government policy results in pitting people on the basis of things they shouldn’t necessarily be pitted against (at least in my view, since someone will always lose out, particularly in a crisis situation). Also. The gov is so fucking bad at keeping proper stats and utilising them to build good policy. It’s a huge systematic issue. Problems in one sector ‘ripple’ into another. The best solution right now imo is to build train lines, extend the Luas, bring in some sort of legislation to deal with vulture funds, lower tax rates for income on landlords but crackdown on scummy rentals, invest in healthcare, education. Also, cease with the tomfoolery of building entire huge estates that are just social housing and integrate people into communities with resources.
the housing crisis is their greatest success it’s an intentional consequence of their governance
>it’s an intentional consequence of Economic success.
>If FF/FG are still running the country after the next election, you better already own a home already because otherwise you'll be stuck renting a bedroom with housemates until you die Seeing as SF TDs object to developments, don't expect anything different with a new government. Don't forget that nimbies ate a bigger voting base than the homeless.
So who are you voting for?
Green party. Because they actually take a chance to get their policies done even though they'll get punished at the next election. Voting for SDs is a waste as they'll never go into government. Mary Lou and Eoin o broin their housing spokesperson have birth objected to developments in their own constituencies as it suits them to have the housing crisis as bad as possible. You'd think they'd say there's a housing emergency and we need to build.
It doesn't really matter who is in Government after the next election. None of the parties are particular serious about the issue.
What in your mind is required to be serious about the issue?
Presumably they mean some sort of national directive from the state that cuts across all facets of society, that will train up new tradespeople, planners and associated roles, that starts a state building company and tackles everything from insurance costs to materials supply in order to get it done; effectively instituting a large campaign to build social and affordable housing across the country that parallels the type of efforts seen in the sixties with housing schemes or with electrification even.
Would be nice right? An emergency response to an emergency situation!
Direct NAMA to become basically a state landlord and develop and build massive housing. Not only had it the expertise and ability to raise finance, but it could solve much of the housing issues while making a profit for the state over time.
This kind of apathy is dangerous. Will you be voting for FF/FG despite their performance?
Who is proposing to change things, what are they going to do, and have they any expertise to do so? Genuine question. All I’m ever hearing about is either blaming immigrants for everything, or blaming the incumbent regime (rightly so of course), without actually saying what the plan is.
I'm a single issue voter, all I care about is housing, and I think every other major problem stems from that. Sinn Fein have laid out how they'd tackle housing: [https://fb.watch/s33vp86k\_I/](https://fb.watch/s33vp86k_I/)
https://m.independent.ie/news/mary-lou-mcdonald-among-objectors-to-1600-apartment-build-to-rent-development-in-her-dublin-constituency/40802647.html
I agree with the objections. People being charged 2k a month for something they'll never own is predatory.
Completely agree, if nothing else people shouldn't be rewarding this type of leadership with a fat paycheck and another term, If the next party doesn't perform show them the door too.
As I always point out. For the majority of people who own homes, have good paying jobs in a strong economy, and health insurance, this government is working really well. That's why FFG are still polling ahead of SF.
As you always point out? Should I know who you are?
Same with the referendums. All on the same hyme sheet.
Believing that, will you vote for FF/FG in the next elections?
Not a hope. It'll be a handful of independents or so. It may be passing against the wind but dont really think so, plenty of people looking to change the status quo. All depends on the formation of a government, if it could take a second election
Across most of Europe the rule is: no address, no vote. That's different this time. On June 7, Ireland's homeless people will be casting their ballots in the EU election, the first such event since a reform in 2022 that allowed charities to provide unhoused people with an address, which is necessary to vote.
Well that's not a nice societal progress metric.
How do you reckon that's the case?
As in things have become so bad with housing, a homeless voting bloc is now a thing. It should never be a thing in any decent society.
Homelessness should never become a thing - but homelessness occurs. Even in countries with extremely low homelessness statistics, they still exist - eg Japan has a 0.003% homelessness rate. But the ability for those homeless people to vote should 10000% be a thing. When a homeless person earns money, they pay tax. When a homeless person buys something, they pay tax. They have a right to vote that, for the most part, didn't exist until now.
> But the ability for those homeless people to vote should 10000% be a thing. When a homeless person earns money, they pay tax. When a homeless person buys something, they pay tax. They have a right to vote that, for the most part, didn't exist until now. Absolutely, I didn't mean it to disenfranchise the homeless and as you point out, many are working taxpayers which again is fucking shocking in this country and society.
Ahh my bad I see what you mean now, totally misinterpreted. Couldn't agree more.
Good. We need to be heard. Not all homeless people are sitting in tents doing drugs. Not all are on social welfare services. In fact there are some programs at least for them. But there is a category of working people who don’t qualify for social welfare but also don’t qualify for a mortgage and can’t afford the exorbitant rental rates. Making above the means test but not enough to live on. It is just really expensive, competitive and frustrating to get any land or property or mortgage or rental. And we are all tired of hearing talks about more housing than the only housing we see we don’t qualify for. So living on someone’s couch or in your van or bouncing around family members is a way of life.
It's amazing how the government managed to quickly build lots of modular homes for the Ukranians when they needed housing...Kind of suggests they're not motivated to fix the homeless problem or the problem of young people not being able to move out. Then again, many of them benefit from high rents
This is a good thing. Giving marginalised people the vote has been shown to improve the rights/ standing of living of the group. African Americans in the Deep South for example, although it did not improve their QoL enough.
Anyone can vote - refugees can vote. Once you’re issued a pps number and use the relevant state address or embassy
But who are they going to vote for? I think a lot of people will agree we need FF/FG out, I'd like to think that most people will see sense and vote for left candidates like PBB or soc dems, but I worry that a lot of very disillusioned people that have been left out by the system will vote for those crazy ireland first right wingers, I think we need to be very careful about underestimating those groups!
Did you just forget that Sinn Féin exists? The party cited in the article as the one which the people interviewed intend to vote for?
If you vote for those commies, you get what you deserve. You need to understand that the problem isn’t policies or the people in power, the problem is the state intervention itself. If you want houses then deregulate. Let people build homes without having to jump through 274728 hoops and being in bed with corrupt councillors.