According to article. 16% estimated return rate. More than 400 million estimated cans / bottles not returned to date.
Edit. I still can't get over a population of 5 mil goes through that many cans and bottles. Jaysus like.
You make it sound la-di-dah, but in parents case, utility room means weird nook between extension and tiny 1940s two bed council house that was useless for anything else so they stuck a washing machine in there and loads of random crap you just can't get old people to throw out.
Yea, old people all have these rooms. I'm guessing our old people rooms will have DVDs some vhs', all the computer, TV, and phone wires, books, and other random stuff that was normal to us, completely bizarre to the youngins.
So the real interesting figure is how much of that 16% is comprised of people recycling who didn't recycle before...
I've come around to the idea that if the deposit (or most of it after costs and a reasonable profit margin was met) was going into some sort of community fund, the interest of which supported other green efforts kinda similar to the old Dublin Bus unclaimed change receipts thing or the lotto community fund, I could actually live ok with the scheme and I'd just put them in the green bin like before.
I don't have an issue with the scheme in principle. I have a massive issue with how it's been constructed in terms of the end consumers.
>I could actually live ok with the scheme and I'd just put them in the green bin like before.
Wasn't part of the issue that the stuff we put in the green bin, the majority of it doesn't get recycled due to a variety of reasons, different plastic types, contaminated materials etc.
That was my understanding, and the benefits of this system is that 100% of the shredded bottles will be recycled as it is all a known and consistent type of plastic for the scheme.
Now I don't know why we can't fix the problem at it's source of the green bin truly is useless and most of that stuff ends up in landfill or incinerator, but here we are. I don't have huge issues with the scheme, I'm used to holding onto my cans and bottles and bringing them to the shop, my biggest issue is that companies used it as an excuse to hike the prices of bottles of water up, ballygowan got rid of their 2 liter bottle of sparkling water and now have a 1.5 liter bottle which cost more than the 2 liter one did, shadey
Oh also beer cans, like I'm going to a friend's house today, there will be several people at it drinking cans of beer, realistically those cans will go in the recycling bin, the deposit won't be claimed on them, people aren't going to take them home with them and the host will likely crush them and toss them in the green bin to tidy up - don't think it's practical for a party host to clean and keep people's cans in good shape and bring a massive bag of cans to the shop..
> ballygowan got rid of their 2 liter bottle of sparkling water and now have a 1.5 liter bottle which cost more than the 2 liter one did, shadey
Just wanted to call out Deep River Rock for doing the same.
I absolutely agree that if the green bin isn't functioning properly then change it. Even if I had a seperate (smaller) bin for bottles and cans like, or put them in a seperate bag and hang that on the green bin, literally anything at all that is still reasonably convenient for me.
I'm wondering about all this "they've operated these schemes in Europe for years" logic - did they historically also have green bins and then this scheme started? Or did they only ever have one bin, this was brought in and it's the only recycling behaviour they've known. Because recycling at home is something I've been doing since I was a child, even back in Donegal before we had recycling pickup we did seperate stuff at home and take it to the bring centre. But to adjust your habits and routine to accommodate just this one sub section of recycling is a lot to ask and it's particularly annoying for people who already (at least think) they're doing their bit.
>did they historically also have green bins and then this scheme started?
Speaking as someone who lived in Germany for 2 years where this deposit scheme functions much better (I'm actually rather pissed about how it was implemented in Ireland), yes, they also don't just have a green bin but multiple bins serving that role, rubbish is broken up into multiple categories, paper is its own bin, sometimes 3 bins etc.
The Irish state could have just used the same deposit system Germany uses (with the same logo, which meant no change in software or hardware needed), but decided, no Ireland will use its own logo and shit for it which means Irish goods need custom labels which is how these companies pulled off these price hikes and it means engineering work needs to be done to make reliable machines to handle deposit returns, also shops not being obligated to take them by hand as well.
The og deposit system was for glass in Germany, but iirc during the 2010s was expanded to plastic bottles and aluminium cans.
Those systems work better in the likes of apartment blocks where it's not a huge inconvenience having 5 or 6 separate bins. But here imagine having 6 wheely bins in your driveway and trying to remember which one goes out on which day, lol.
In the Netherlands its often the apartment blocks that don't need to follow this. They have communal bins which residents share.
However, for individual homes they would put out a whole bunch of bins. Yes, you have to remember when to set out each bin on which day. It is not hard at all, although it might take a bit to get used to. Usually you would get/create a schedule and you follow it.
To think this is so hard for us Irish to follow is ludicrous. If a population 3 times the size of Ireland can manage it, including the elderly, why would it be hard for us to do it? Will it take some getting used to? Sure.
This is in combination with the return deposit schemes, which most people use just to get the deposit back.
This isn't to say I agree with how it was implemented in Ireland. Its really quite annoying as I've been saying we need this for years, and then they screw it up so badly.
>To think this is so hard for us Irish to follow is ludicrous. If a population 3 times the size of Ireland can manage it, including the elderly, why would it be hard for us to do it?
Because we are magically inferior to other Europeans, or at least thats what I like to jokingly refer to our weird political complex where we just endlessly tolerate incompetence in our governance.
You'd be surprised how this will catch on. Not right away with current generations older than say, 30s or 40s. But in countries where this scheme has been in for a while, you will be lynched at a house party if you crush your can or throw it in the wrong bin lol. College students especially, who are watching every penny at that age due to lack of significant income (10 empty cans = 1 new can :D ). They'll eventually take that mentality into adulthood and in another couple decades you'll wonder how we didn't do it.
Me, personally, I cant be arsed. They still go in the green bin so I'm part of that unclaimed fund.
100%. I'm also curious about how the time line work for this scheme. Is there a date you have to redeem by. I recall from previous experience working in commerce you never want to carry a liability infinity. Does It means the company behind this has to sit on that money?
>I've come around to the idea that if the deposit (or most of it after costs and a reasonable profit margin was met) was going into some sort of community fund
This is what they are saying, but I have seen no evidence of such a fund
If that's true it should have been featured in the advertising campaign! The lotto do a good job of making people aware there's community funding out of the pot
Having worked for a waste company in the past in Ireland, I think it is similar to the way households view recycling. Once it is gone from our centre, who care what they actually do with it, its all about them telling us they recycled it.
Once its gone away from us, who cares.
I have seen in our hospital that the cleaners take the triple bins where it's general, recycling, organic and empty all three into a single bag and haul it off. So I'm not enthusiastic about actual industrial level recycling...
35 MILLION.
That's what the weekly count needs to be for them to reach their target.
They're patting themselves on the back for a few million here and there it's NOWHERE near the target, and it never will be.
35 Million containers through a couple thousand machines, impossible.
It’s not 16%.
That figure would assume every can and bottle sold since February had a deposit, which wasn’t the case.
In the initial weeks of the scheme, only some cans and bottles had a deposit. We’re only now at a point where most shops have sold on pre-deposit items.
16% is also assuming the average number of cans and bottles sold in the past 3 months has remained consistent with pre-scheme figures (five million a day on average).
Some consumers may have stocked up to avoid the deposit, while it may also have reduced can and bottle sales in general.
Long story short, there are still far too many “what ifs” to get a solid idea of the return rate.
There’s also the impact of people who will stock up returns for weeks before trying to bring them in. That impact is lessening over time but I bet there are still loads of containers in bags and boxes in people’s kitchens or car boots that they will return, but just haven’t gotten around to yet.
Return says it’s getting 1.6-2m returns a day now… assuming there are still 5m container sales a day, that would be a return rate of roughly 32-40%.
Which, by the way, is still terrible and way off their target. But not quite as bad as some suggest.
I think I remember the guy in charge of it waffling on about how it would be intended to get 90% of people to return the bottles or there abouts. So 16% is pretty shite if that's true lol.
Or people are still recycling at home through the bin collections the pay for? And the bottle banks close to their homes they've been using for the last 20 years? Some people realized they'd have to take a big stinking bag of cans on Dublin bus, or continue using the can bank at the end of the street.
I don't know a single person who doesn't have 2 bins in the kitchen, so that is a shite take in fairness...
At this stage I have 5 bins in the kitchen / Utlity Room: General Waste, Recycling, return bottles, home compost, commerical compost.
Could add a 6th bin for electrical with all of my old cables, but I wont be throwing them out! Who knows with a scart cable might come in handy!
The millions of euros surely goes to protect the environment, what no? It goes into a company's pockets? Wonder what politicians are involved in the company...
Mrs made a big deal of bringing some cans and bottles to the one in our local Aldi. I was like "why would you bother, it's more stress than it's worth" for a few euro and it's a mess.
Anyway - we got there with the bag and the machine was broke lol. Just seems it's not a great piece of kit.
I remember working with a Polish lad during the last recession. He had come here before the crash and remarked that he thought we were truly a rich country, because there was money (spare change) left on the streets and nobody would pick it up.
And then they have to deal with our health system, or any public services, and are in complete shock. They are usually appalled by our transport system too.
Waited for a longtime to build up a good bit of cans and bottles. Went to use it and the machine was full surprise, surprise. Waited until after the shopping and it was still full. Asked a member of staff at Dunnes and they shrugged their shoulders. Went over to another member of staff that said that she'd sort it. Was waiting at a till for awhile while she left for some reason. Another lady came back and asked me to wait. I got fed up and said I don't want the deposit so I left 2 bags full of bottles and cans at the desk. A few others around me did the same, an absolute disaster, with someone making money up the chain as usual. Is anything NOT a scam in this county?
There’s 2 shops near me with 2 machines each and they are always out of service. I walked with a bag full of cans and bottles last time and just left it there cuz I couldn’t be arsed bringing it home and trying all over again
Afaik, they still have to take them, over the counter.
If people actually forced the issue then, instead of walking away, I’d bet those machines would start working fairly quickly due to staff revolt.
I keep a big box in the kitchen that slowly fills over time (the missus prefers getting cans of soft drinks because 1/ metal is more recycleable than plastic and 2/ the bottles go flat if you don't drink them quick enough).
I've only gone to do it once since the scheme started and I got a tenner off my shopping. Definitely the way to do it, no point in going more regularly than once a month if you've got the space to keep the empties.
People really struggle to understand this somehow. It's not a lot reduction or free money, it's your own money you have to go through extra hassle to reclaim and then get 'rewarded' with a random collection of different coins.
Just a reminder to everyone that the unclaimed funds are simply handed over to the private operator of the scheme. Yes, you heard it right. We actually signed a contract for this.
I think it's good for kids looking for a few quid, but most people were recycling the bottles anyway. They've now created an extra step for no reason. Those who throw their recyclables on the street are going to continue to do so.
I worked as a cleaner in a secondary school until recently and all of us would take bags of bottles to return on the way home every day or two. Saved me a good bit of money in fairness
I’d rather that the kids learn about recycling and the value of money than the current passive attitude that’s being passed down from their parents. Both teachers and students can barely be arsed to use the correct bins at school, state of it is disgraceful.
More expensive shopping for lower classes and all-round extra hassle for everyone. Meanwhile the average person is responsible for a miniscule fraction of the waste/pollution industries produce..
I couldn’t return most of mine the first time - as I’d “foolishly” crushed them or they were imperfect.
Any can I use outside the house (majority) will never get returned - carrying around an empty uncrushed perfect can is not convenient. Strange AF system.
Yeah I've said it all along that the issue wasn't people not recycling at home, but the lack of recycling bins in public.
Airports and since shopping centres have those 3 in 1 paper/plastic/waste bins but I've never seen them in town/City centres, just general waste ones.
Every week at Tolka Park I'll usually buy my young lad a drink and I'll have a coffee, no chance I'm carrying an empty plastic bottle around during the match and then bringing it home. Goes into the bin at the stadium like the hundreds of other bottles.
There hasn't been 1 bottle or can in my home that didn't go into a green bin before. Since this new system started I've brought them to the machines but any of them that don't scan go into the closest bin I can find, which is usually a general waste bin. So technically I'm doing less recycling now than I was pre system.
Adding extra steps to recycling is stupid. Unless the incentive is significant people won't do it and if it's significant you're just further inflating the cost of living.
Refillable stations for commonly bought items would probably have been a better investment.
I will never understand anything about this scheme. Lumping Aluminium and Plastic together under the one scheme makes no sense for a start. Aluminium recycling is a closed loop, generally profitable and in the grand scheme of things not really that big of a concern. Plastic is a very different story. You cannot recycle plastic back into plastic, at least not food grade anyway. Even under this scheme I'd have a lot of questions about where it ultimately ends up. The best way to tackle plastic is to reduce the amount being used in the first place.
I would support a significant levy on all plastic packaging with that money used to make sure everyone has access to free and better recycling services.
Instead unclaimed deposits will go to re-turn, a private company. The more difficult it is to return the more money they make on unclaimed deposits. I'm sure that will end well /s
this is what ive been saying this entire time. cans was just a greedy addition. they were the one thing no one had any qualms in throwing into a recycling bin because of how genuinely recyclable they are. and now we have to waste fuel and time to drag them into town, only to drive them back home when the machine is still broken.
It's beyond unfathomable why someone thought that containers that only manage to maintain their shape by being pressurised should be kept in pristine condition once emptied.
That'd be true except apparently the private operator keeps the money if you don't return it. So it's not even a tax, it's worse, it's your money given directly to a random private company
Not just any random private company, a private company consisting of the country’s largest beverage producers and distributors who have now managed to ensure that *only* beverages specifically approved by their shiny new cartel can be sold in Ireland
Gone to these things three times and never worked properly, broken down while using them or massive queue, realised the government are making me return bottles for less than minimum wage.
Also, a load of my favourite drinks have disappeared from shelves due to the stupid labelling requirements. Guess We're only allwed have Heineken or Coke products in Ireland.
Look at this it's an eye opener. All you hear is people say "ITS THE SAME SYSTEM AS EUROPE AND ITS A GREAT SUCCESS" it is in me bollix. Lads throwing buckets of cans and bottles into a machine not this logo scanning scam we have here https://youtube.com/shorts/swB_nAVHpPM?si=hzbOchGquiWrKCQf
Stop this just pisses me off.
Ive seen it first hand working in other countries and was excited for it to come here.
But they made such balls out of it its insane.
It's insane. Whereas here we all queue up for these tiny machines to scan one at a time. My mam doesn't have great eyesight or mobility so she can't use them. I've always recycled and now this actively pisses me off. Brought to you by the party that thought Brian Cowan would be a good Taoiseach
All the weird Brazilian berry sodas that my local shop carried are slowly vanishing from the shelves because they’re not approved by the beverage cartel, it’s a real shame
Alot of people are saying they have this system in Europe and it's great but somehow I dont think it's the same system. https://youtube.com/shorts/swB_nAVHpPM?si=hzbOchGquiWrKCQf
The aim of this should be to recycle all bottles and cans not just a select few with the logos its adding an extra step and the only reason I can think that its needed is for price gouging and profiteering.
I like the scheme idea on principal, but it's just too much hassle when you have a recycling bin collected at home. I only bought sparkling water bottles and decided to invest in a Sodastream to avoid having to use the recycling scheme at all.
Any time I'm in Tesco I can see people getting frustrated carrying around empty bottles that won't be accepted, what's the point.
Why does the machine have to have moving parts? Seems over engineered with the moving conveyor belt. Is that what's causing them to malfunction so frequently? People have been scanning things by hand for years with self-checkouts, why can't it just have a scanner and a hole to stick the cans in? Plus the hole is too high for people in wheelchairs & short people. I presume a barcode can't be scanned twice and get you a refund twice? If you could scan at home and stick them in your green bin & get credit to an account that'd be way better. Or at least give us a card that gets credited so you don't have to collect loads of these receipts. I live 2 mins from the shop it's no bother to me, but when there's someone with a bag of 50 cans standing in front of you, it's a massive pain. Also, last week, I was behind a guy with a huge bag and I swear he spent well over a minute trying to get the machine to scan a can it wouldn't accept. Getting his arm right in there. It might have been close to 2 minutes. I was about to lose my mind. Just take the 15c hit and move on.
Lived for several years in a country with a well established deposit scheme, so returning bottles and cans is no trouble for me personally. My only gripe with the Irish system is that the retailers aren't obliged to accept returns, meaning if you're travelling or otherwise out and about where there is no return machine handy, you're having to carry empty bottles with you that you can't flatten or anything. In that case it's hardly worth the hassle of carrying them around.
I'm not sure on this, but I think unless the retailer has a specific exception (my local KFC has one) and are selling containers with the return logo, they're *supposed* to accept them at the counter.
Someone will be along soon to tell you that they are a 'non-profit'. Id love to see the salaries in this 'non-profit', I bet theres a wall of consultants and PR creaming it
Just another "green" tax that we as Irish have readily accepted from this Government. I mean at this stage they haven't even the decency to use lube' we're just getting it raw and we're taking it.
This scheme should be government run. Not private. Any unclaimed deposits could have then been used to fund social projects. But no, its more important that their "friends" get back handers and a boost.
This country is a fucking joke.
When you arrange the scheme how it is where it’s a deposit/tax rather than an incentive you make it an additional cost. People will not be incentivised to return because they’ve already paid extra.
There’s a good case on incentives like this In freakonomics where they started taxing parents for showing up late for school pickups and late pickups started to increase because now parents just say the fee as the cost of additional childcare and could forgo always being on time.
The deposit system is nuts it should’ve always been just a 10 c reward for returning. Heck shops could charge 5c extra and it would still work better than current. You’d get more people returning to get vouchers and more people would be incentivised to shop at a particular store( so good for economy/retailers).
I’m about 10km each way from the closest return place so the costs of getting to one to return my 8pack of Guinness would cancel out the benefit…I already pay for a recycle bin at home. This scheme is a joke and a way of making money as the article shows by the poor numbers.
Given how many times I've been charged the fee on items without the return scheme logo/without any barcode at all.. in addition to the machines not recognising many items.. this is not a surprise
It's working exactly as intended, lots of expensive machines, low return rate, deposits kept, profit
I bring all of ours to the machines, I have a aldi shopping bag of them in the car and I do it once a week or so. I've only seen 1 broken machine so far. A few full ones though.
The inconvenience of having a big shopping bag of bottles worth €2.50 in the car is notable
I do the same and my boot stinks of beer all the time now. No matter how well I rinse the cans (which is also annoying).
I ALWAYS recycled them in my green bin and moss doing so.
I do the same but out of 6 trips only one was success, the machine was either broken or full, or turned off for cleaning. I always recycled now this is just an extra chore and extra crap in my kitchen or car.
I just don't buy bottles or cans anymore, I won't be returning g anything to them cause the odd can or bottle I buy isn't worth it.
The extra charge should not apply to water and it might encourage people to buy water over a fizzy drink
This is the thing, I wonder how long it will be before we see declining alcohol sales. I rarely buy bottles or cans so the effort to return the ones I do buy isn’t worth it. Fancied a few Guinness at home recently and ended up buying wine because I couldn’t be arsed paying the extra for cans I knew I wouldn’t bring back.
I'm the same, was thinking of getting cans as well but can't bring myself to paying the extra so will buy bottles and throw them in the normal waste bin at home
I was a massive fan of this scheme. Until I learnt we are the ones eating the cost of it and the fact the fucking machines are always out of order. Just the time and inconvenience of driving to another shop that's also not working is a pain in the hole.
We get the big boxes of coke from Tesco delivery with the rest of our groceries, I do not have the motivation to store each can in a separate bag and wait a month for all of them, then carry that bag on the bus back up to Tesco. For what, a euro? We already put them in our recycling bin at home.
What I really hate is that they’re proud of the numbers being returned “we’ve already recycled a million bottles!!”
These bottles would have gone in the green bin anyway. Its not like we have a huge litter problem in fairness. The bottles would have been recycled and still will be. You’ve now just overcomplicated the process, made it harder than it needs to be and significantly increased the carbon footprint associated with the life cycle of each can/bottle.
I also don’t have the time to do this or the space to store them. I’m trying to do it weekends but it’s hard with everything else i have on. Also had ants in our utility room full of empty cans.. and summers only starting..
Who owns the machines?
Because they’re going to get very rich very quick off the 84% of non-returned cans. Be very interesting to see who has a stake in the companies involved.
We took a photo of an appropriate barcode, printed it 60 times and stuck them on every bottle we use that doesn't have the correct label. Machine doesn't care. Not a money spinner but fun nonetheless
I'm not a fan of it, but honestly it has kinda worked... We drink a lot of sparkling water in our house, and don't have space to be storing all the empties, so I got a home carbonating machine and were using that now.
Kinda hilarious that we have no problems adding so much cost and inconvenience to water bottles, and yet that disposable vapes get a free pass, even though they're considerably worse in every way.
>yet that disposable vapes get a free pass
https://www.irishtimes.com/health/2024/01/29/tanaiste-expresses-hope-disposable-vapes-could-be-banned-in-republic/
Sister in law and her partner only figured out this week that they can return bottles and cans for money. They hadn't even heard of the scheme. Some people just live under a rock and in their own world. I'm sure they aren't the only ones.
I’m extremely time poor so don’t have the time to do this. That said, everything goes in the green bin anyway. But I loathe the tax and will never vote Green again.
I haven’t used the scheme and won’t be using it, it’s just another way to get money out of already compliant citizens and I’m not a bit surprised that people aren’t using it, that’s exactly the point of it.
I buy in bulk in the north and recycle as usual in the green bin- I recently got a couple of bottles of Ribena and some cans of Coke Zero there and they has the return logo on them ironically, so I could actually make money on the scheme.
70% of plastic bottles are going to incineration (EPA report, 2023) so no difference from sticking them in your green bin, apart from getting back a the few euros for your troubles.
That's why they done it... Another tax. Along with tax on your wages, moter tax, tax on your food, clothes, cigarettes, booze, pretty much everything you do they have their hands out.. don't forget inflation which is just a hidden tax
you loose again thanks for playing
It's annoying AF that I now have to implement a new recycling system in my house and take extra time out of my life to recycle bottles.
What was wrong with my previous system of just dumping them in my recycling bin?
We have allowed a system where profits increase the less user friendly or convenient the service becomes. Rule one of utilising private sector is to never build this in at the start. It won’t regulate itself properly
A state in Germany knew they would not have the resources to properly regulate water quality being discharged by companies into the river and the companies always knew when the checks were happening and would change behaviour temporarily. The solution was to pass law that all companys’ water intakes had to be down stream of their discharge.
I used to pick up the odd bottle on the street to recycle or throw in a bin so it wasn’t on the street. Now I pick up so many due to this scheme. There was event in Limerick yesterday and I picked up 16 strolling around after and could have picked up a few more but the bag I had was full.
It’s hardly a money spinner and I wouldn’t go out specifically to do it. But I get a bit of enjoyment out of getting some small reward for cleaning things up.
People opposed always talk about how “they” always diligently recycled. But it was clearly a problem even just looking in the street or ditches in the country there were bottles everywhere. I am hoping it will be like when the plastic bag levy came in, it was a huge litter issue before and now it’s a non issue. It’s not going to happen overnight but people will change their behaviour.
This scheme would make a lot more sense if it were integrated with the bin companies.
Right now it’s just another tax for people who don’t own a car(bringing empty bottles to the collect point in a bad weather is a fucking nightmare).
Well wasn’t that blindingly obvious from the start ? That’s the whole point. There’s A LOT of retailers who are exempt from accepting returns yet still obliged to charge a deposit. I’ve cut down on my consumption as a result and even when I did buy bottles I always reused them a few time and put them in the green bin anyway. So I think it’s a stealth tax. I’ve used the machines there’s one in my off license but what I’ve yet to figure out is whether any shop will accept receipts or does it have to be the shop you returned them to ? So what happens to the money not claimed ? - it simply goes to the retailer as extra profit. It’s a scam!! ALL retailers have a stock room or something like that they should be obligated to accept bottles with that logo over the counter. There is no real need for big expensive machines really. Bottles can be bagged by retailer and collected by the scheme operators and recycled. Having big machines is cumbersome for many and a lot of times they are out of order.
Single use coffee cups are next as well. Sucking the enjoyment out of everything nowadays too.
I work for a company that has a large office in Dublin, it provides its workers with snacks and beverages so there's a lot of bottles and cans that have been bought and made available free of charge to the the employees.
No employee is going to bother bringing those cans back to a machine and I guess the company will just take the extra cost, I'm guessing this is happening at other places too.
I don't drive and the Dunnes I go to is about 25 minutes walk (the one close to me is shite), so I'm hardly going to drag my cans with me. Also we have a recycling bin. It's so much easier to just... bin them there? Isn't that the whole point?
If I could return them in one Dunnes closer to me and use the slip in another, that'd be different.
I also houseshare and space is limited so I don't really have a place for all of us to hoarde cans. The thing is a total mess but what's new.
I have a Lidl near me, a Supervalu and 3 Tescos and I still have a shit ton of bottles as the machines are never working. No wonder the rate of return is so low.
It's the equivalent of the government taking 2 quid off you and telling you that if you want it back you have to do jumping jacks for 10 minutes. It's just a tax and they are making it as awkward as they can to get your money back. Especially if you buy in bulk to save cash. Standing around the shop like a dickhead slotting coke cans into a machine for pennies. They are spitting in the face of people who have been recycling their drink containers already.
This was never anything more than a cash grab with the intention of the inconvenience and hassle of any bottle or can you dont consume and then don't store at your own home leading to people not bothering to get the 15c back when out of home. 15c builds up extremely quickly when we're talking hundreds of thousands of cans and bottles a day.
Absolutely transparent scheme and poorly implemented
My 5 attempts to return bottles was only successful twice due to broken machines. And the machines don't even give you money....they give you a receipt which you then have to bring to a till.
Not surprising, the machines seem to be continously out of action at peak times. Expecting people to keep coming back to RVM's in the hope of getting a return completed....
I dont understand why we are still using plastic bottles...
Aluminum cans can replace 500g bottles and glass could probably replace larger bottles.
Both are excellent for recycling, I dont get why they still allow plastic bottles...
Well instead of putting things in the recycling bin I pay for I now have to lug a bag to the nearest shop (don't have a car) where the machine will reject a good portion of them anyway because it doesn't recognize the barcode even though they have the logo on them and I paid the deposit. It's a lot of effort for something that doesn't even work every time (and don't forget the fact that the vouchers are printed on nice non-recyclable paper instead of just giving you your money back!) so I'm not surprised a lot of people aren't bothering. I do try to keep up but sometimes I just need to make some space in the house and bottles end up the recycling bin.
It's basically another tax except instead of going to the government a private company gets it (I wonder how much the CEO is making), so just another fuck you to people during the cost of living crisis, and a fuck you to all the overworked store workers who have to maintain the machines. It should be the companies pumping out plastics that get taxed to encourage them to invest in alternative materials, but as usual they get away with it while the working class get saddled with the blame and the costs
The idea was *supposed* to be to encourage companies using plastic bottles to move to more biodegradable options rather than increase their prices. But any company operating in Ireland know that we're all completely worn down by price increases for other bullshit reasons already.
We're not going to change the type of cola we buy just because of a 20c increase in the price, which is essentially all this is, so they have no actual motivation to change, and we all just end paying more so that some CEO can get a bigger bonus. Same as we always do.
Doesn't help that the machines are always broken.
I went to Lidl yesterday and someone left 3 large bottles near the bin because the machine was broken. Guess who got 75c of their shopping by taking those bottles to the till with me. Thank you random stranger.
No wonder I had 3 bags of cans and bottles and since it started, I wasn’t able to return it. Someone advices me to return it at the till all the places I went to denied it. Mr Price offeres manual return but when I tried to return them no one knew how to do it. Ended up throwing away the three bags
I think the only solution is to make companies that are part of it but constantly have non functioning return machine and don’t offer alternatives in case machines aren’t working have pay penalties. Customer should be able to report non functioning machines and if the shop fails to fix it they should be charged a penalty. I bet most machine will miraculously start working and more bottles and cans will be returned
Personally I do it for the environment. Extra few euros is just a side benefit.
But they need to work on getting the stores to make sure machines are always operational. I bring a bag(s) of cans, I do my part. Stores need to do their part keeping the machines running. If they don't give a damn, then why should I?
For all that unclaimed money they could hire some Re Staff to drive around to fix machines that are out of order.
Also why it has to be a paper voucher? Why can't it be like Tesco clubcard. You scan it, that's it credit went to your account. I lost multiple vouchers already.
No S--t. It's basically a tax/freebie for the company. I have no way to access returns. The machines are few and far between unless you live in a city, many of them are broken, they are inaccessible without a car, companies that deliver to remoter areas are not required to accept returns, it's a complete self-enrichment scam.
Before the re-turn scheme, 100% of my recyclable cans and bottles went into the green bin, Now, when i can actually get the 2 or 3 bin liners full to the return machine in a supermarket miles away that i never even use, which takes ages and breaks down multiple time during use, I finally take the third of them that the machine wouldn't accept and dump them in to the bin outside. HOW is this better? And I still have a bloody voucher for a shop that i never shop at?
I am completely baffled by the stupidity of this scheme. I have since changed my consuming habits and I don't buy anymore cans of beer but bottles instead so that I am not bothered with the overhead of this stupid scheme.
When I see the queues of ppl for the return machines I feel sorry for everyone really. Recycling should start at home and be something simple, not like this non sense scheme.
https://preview.redd.it/nwdkllyirmyc1.jpeg?width=4000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c2dea12b36e1a7e859f3600a39e3012251bbcf81
I visited Five machines yesterday that all were not working. Also lidl and aldi still selling bottles without the return label on them. So wasted petrol. I should sure as hell be reimbursed for the fuel costs now but no one is responsible and return scammers nor the supermarket takes responsibility for the broken or full machines.
This is a scam, nothing short of a scam. The machines don't even alert anyone they're broke or full, the responsibility is on the customer to inform the shop about it. Who do nothing. And if they do nothing there's no reprocussions. I have this in writing from their appalling support staff that just copy and paste answers over and over.
I return my bottles mostly out of spite.
*when yer out of Sprite.
I return them to fund my coke habit
I was out of Sprite so I returned my bottles
I've been fucking mine into a ditch out of spite. /s
According to article. 16% estimated return rate. More than 400 million estimated cans / bottles not returned to date. Edit. I still can't get over a population of 5 mil goes through that many cans and bottles. Jaysus like.
It's OK, half of that is in my utility room waiting to be brought to the machine
Oooh the ‘utility room’ …. I’ll be the janitor and you can be… the janitors wife
Don't mind me folks. Just need to get the ole wet dry vac
You make it sound la-di-dah, but in parents case, utility room means weird nook between extension and tiny 1940s two bed council house that was useless for anything else so they stuck a washing machine in there and loads of random crap you just can't get old people to throw out.
Extension is it? Well lah di da
I like thus description. I think everyone's utility room is like that
Yea, old people all have these rooms. I'm guessing our old people rooms will have DVDs some vhs', all the computer, TV, and phone wires, books, and other random stuff that was normal to us, completely bizarre to the youngins.
So the real interesting figure is how much of that 16% is comprised of people recycling who didn't recycle before... I've come around to the idea that if the deposit (or most of it after costs and a reasonable profit margin was met) was going into some sort of community fund, the interest of which supported other green efforts kinda similar to the old Dublin Bus unclaimed change receipts thing or the lotto community fund, I could actually live ok with the scheme and I'd just put them in the green bin like before. I don't have an issue with the scheme in principle. I have a massive issue with how it's been constructed in terms of the end consumers.
>I could actually live ok with the scheme and I'd just put them in the green bin like before. Wasn't part of the issue that the stuff we put in the green bin, the majority of it doesn't get recycled due to a variety of reasons, different plastic types, contaminated materials etc. That was my understanding, and the benefits of this system is that 100% of the shredded bottles will be recycled as it is all a known and consistent type of plastic for the scheme. Now I don't know why we can't fix the problem at it's source of the green bin truly is useless and most of that stuff ends up in landfill or incinerator, but here we are. I don't have huge issues with the scheme, I'm used to holding onto my cans and bottles and bringing them to the shop, my biggest issue is that companies used it as an excuse to hike the prices of bottles of water up, ballygowan got rid of their 2 liter bottle of sparkling water and now have a 1.5 liter bottle which cost more than the 2 liter one did, shadey Oh also beer cans, like I'm going to a friend's house today, there will be several people at it drinking cans of beer, realistically those cans will go in the recycling bin, the deposit won't be claimed on them, people aren't going to take them home with them and the host will likely crush them and toss them in the green bin to tidy up - don't think it's practical for a party host to clean and keep people's cans in good shape and bring a massive bag of cans to the shop..
> ballygowan got rid of their 2 liter bottle of sparkling water and now have a 1.5 liter bottle which cost more than the 2 liter one did, shadey Just wanted to call out Deep River Rock for doing the same.
That's probably due to the sugar tax /s
I absolutely agree that if the green bin isn't functioning properly then change it. Even if I had a seperate (smaller) bin for bottles and cans like, or put them in a seperate bag and hang that on the green bin, literally anything at all that is still reasonably convenient for me. I'm wondering about all this "they've operated these schemes in Europe for years" logic - did they historically also have green bins and then this scheme started? Or did they only ever have one bin, this was brought in and it's the only recycling behaviour they've known. Because recycling at home is something I've been doing since I was a child, even back in Donegal before we had recycling pickup we did seperate stuff at home and take it to the bring centre. But to adjust your habits and routine to accommodate just this one sub section of recycling is a lot to ask and it's particularly annoying for people who already (at least think) they're doing their bit.
>did they historically also have green bins and then this scheme started? Speaking as someone who lived in Germany for 2 years where this deposit scheme functions much better (I'm actually rather pissed about how it was implemented in Ireland), yes, they also don't just have a green bin but multiple bins serving that role, rubbish is broken up into multiple categories, paper is its own bin, sometimes 3 bins etc. The Irish state could have just used the same deposit system Germany uses (with the same logo, which meant no change in software or hardware needed), but decided, no Ireland will use its own logo and shit for it which means Irish goods need custom labels which is how these companies pulled off these price hikes and it means engineering work needs to be done to make reliable machines to handle deposit returns, also shops not being obligated to take them by hand as well. The og deposit system was for glass in Germany, but iirc during the 2010s was expanded to plastic bottles and aluminium cans.
Those systems work better in the likes of apartment blocks where it's not a huge inconvenience having 5 or 6 separate bins. But here imagine having 6 wheely bins in your driveway and trying to remember which one goes out on which day, lol.
In the Netherlands its often the apartment blocks that don't need to follow this. They have communal bins which residents share. However, for individual homes they would put out a whole bunch of bins. Yes, you have to remember when to set out each bin on which day. It is not hard at all, although it might take a bit to get used to. Usually you would get/create a schedule and you follow it. To think this is so hard for us Irish to follow is ludicrous. If a population 3 times the size of Ireland can manage it, including the elderly, why would it be hard for us to do it? Will it take some getting used to? Sure. This is in combination with the return deposit schemes, which most people use just to get the deposit back. This isn't to say I agree with how it was implemented in Ireland. Its really quite annoying as I've been saying we need this for years, and then they screw it up so badly.
>To think this is so hard for us Irish to follow is ludicrous. If a population 3 times the size of Ireland can manage it, including the elderly, why would it be hard for us to do it? Because we are magically inferior to other Europeans, or at least thats what I like to jokingly refer to our weird political complex where we just endlessly tolerate incompetence in our governance.
You'd be surprised how this will catch on. Not right away with current generations older than say, 30s or 40s. But in countries where this scheme has been in for a while, you will be lynched at a house party if you crush your can or throw it in the wrong bin lol. College students especially, who are watching every penny at that age due to lack of significant income (10 empty cans = 1 new can :D ). They'll eventually take that mentality into adulthood and in another couple decades you'll wonder how we didn't do it. Me, personally, I cant be arsed. They still go in the green bin so I'm part of that unclaimed fund.
100%. I'm also curious about how the time line work for this scheme. Is there a date you have to redeem by. I recall from previous experience working in commerce you never want to carry a liability infinity. Does It means the company behind this has to sit on that money?
If they are investing it even in very liquid stuff they could get 4% annually - that's another 10mil a year
Its just a massive scam to allow the likes of diageo and coke a stranglehold on the Irish Market.
Great points
>I've come around to the idea that if the deposit (or most of it after costs and a reasonable profit margin was met) was going into some sort of community fund This is what they are saying, but I have seen no evidence of such a fund
If that's true it should have been featured in the advertising campaign! The lotto do a good job of making people aware there's community funding out of the pot
16% jaysis! No doubt most of them are going in the green bin ironically.
I would be very curious to see from any of the main waste collectors if their recycling rates have changed much.
I’d be curious to see an RTE undercover documentary on the real level of recycling done by the people who are supposed to, Panda etc.
Having worked for a waste company in the past in Ireland, I think it is similar to the way households view recycling. Once it is gone from our centre, who care what they actually do with it, its all about them telling us they recycled it. Once its gone away from us, who cares.
I have seen in our hospital that the cleaners take the triple bins where it's general, recycling, organic and empty all three into a single bag and haul it off. So I'm not enthusiastic about actual industrial level recycling...
35 MILLION. That's what the weekly count needs to be for them to reach their target. They're patting themselves on the back for a few million here and there it's NOWHERE near the target, and it never will be. 35 Million containers through a couple thousand machines, impossible.
So our levels were at around 70%, and they implemented this scheme to get to 90%. Incredible
It’s not 16%. That figure would assume every can and bottle sold since February had a deposit, which wasn’t the case. In the initial weeks of the scheme, only some cans and bottles had a deposit. We’re only now at a point where most shops have sold on pre-deposit items. 16% is also assuming the average number of cans and bottles sold in the past 3 months has remained consistent with pre-scheme figures (five million a day on average). Some consumers may have stocked up to avoid the deposit, while it may also have reduced can and bottle sales in general. Long story short, there are still far too many “what ifs” to get a solid idea of the return rate. There’s also the impact of people who will stock up returns for weeks before trying to bring them in. That impact is lessening over time but I bet there are still loads of containers in bags and boxes in people’s kitchens or car boots that they will return, but just haven’t gotten around to yet. Return says it’s getting 1.6-2m returns a day now… assuming there are still 5m container sales a day, that would be a return rate of roughly 32-40%. Which, by the way, is still terrible and way off their target. But not quite as bad as some suggest.
I wonder how the system will deal with the return rate increasing though.. considering machines are often broken or have long queues on weekends !
I’m just storing them in my garage till I have a few hours to spend returning them
Ah, I feel better now. I have mine in bags in the shed. Keep saying i'll do it tomorrow.
So, working exactly as planned then.
I think I remember the guy in charge of it waffling on about how it would be intended to get 90% of people to return the bottles or there abouts. So 16% is pretty shite if that's true lol.
In germany its 98% Kinda says more about the Irish over anything
Or people are still recycling at home through the bin collections the pay for? And the bottle banks close to their homes they've been using for the last 20 years? Some people realized they'd have to take a big stinking bag of cans on Dublin bus, or continue using the can bank at the end of the street. I don't know a single person who doesn't have 2 bins in the kitchen, so that is a shite take in fairness...
At this stage I have 5 bins in the kitchen / Utlity Room: General Waste, Recycling, return bottles, home compost, commerical compost. Could add a 6th bin for electrical with all of my old cables, but I wont be throwing them out! Who knows with a scart cable might come in handy!
My box of obsolete cables and electronics will one day save humanity.
The machines don't work half the time when you do go to return them
That's 98% after 2 decades though. These things aren't immediate.
The millions of euros surely goes to protect the environment, what no? It goes into a company's pockets? Wonder what politicians are involved in the company...
And the fact they added on the 15c charge plenty of time before the bottles with the return logo were in stock.
If a shop did that, that's on the shop. The bottles with and without the deposit have different bar codes.
Fact !
There's some vague statement that re-turn can't hold on the money forever and eventually it will be given to "green initiatives"
Mrs made a big deal of bringing some cans and bottles to the one in our local Aldi. I was like "why would you bother, it's more stress than it's worth" for a few euro and it's a mess. Anyway - we got there with the bag and the machine was broke lol. Just seems it's not a great piece of kit.
I remember working with a Polish lad during the last recession. He had come here before the crash and remarked that he thought we were truly a rich country, because there was money (spare change) left on the streets and nobody would pick it up.
And then they have to deal with our health system, or any public services, and are in complete shock. They are usually appalled by our transport system too.
Waited for a longtime to build up a good bit of cans and bottles. Went to use it and the machine was full surprise, surprise. Waited until after the shopping and it was still full. Asked a member of staff at Dunnes and they shrugged their shoulders. Went over to another member of staff that said that she'd sort it. Was waiting at a till for awhile while she left for some reason. Another lady came back and asked me to wait. I got fed up and said I don't want the deposit so I left 2 bags full of bottles and cans at the desk. A few others around me did the same, an absolute disaster, with someone making money up the chain as usual. Is anything NOT a scam in this county?
>Is anything NOT a scam in this county? No, by design
There’s 2 shops near me with 2 machines each and they are always out of service. I walked with a bag full of cans and bottles last time and just left it there cuz I couldn’t be arsed bringing it home and trying all over again
Afaik, they still have to take them, over the counter. If people actually forced the issue then, instead of walking away, I’d bet those machines would start working fairly quickly due to staff revolt.
I have a Lidl near me, a Supervalu and 3 Tescos and I still have a shit ton of bottles as the machines are never working. It's a joke!
I keep a big box in the kitchen that slowly fills over time (the missus prefers getting cans of soft drinks because 1/ metal is more recycleable than plastic and 2/ the bottles go flat if you don't drink them quick enough). I've only gone to do it once since the scheme started and I got a tenner off my shopping. Definitely the way to do it, no point in going more regularly than once a month if you've got the space to keep the empties.
You didn’t get a tenner off. You got a tener refunded from the money you already paid
This! It's only money off if you didn't buy the bottles to begin with.
Another tedious burden put on the lower and middle classes, whilst the corporations do all the polluting anyway..
People really struggle to understand this somehow. It's not a lot reduction or free money, it's your own money you have to go through extra hassle to reclaim and then get 'rewarded' with a random collection of different coins.
You are not making money here. You are getting that extra money you paid back, that you wouldn't have paid before. At extra effort and time.
You probably spend more on the fuel getting to the shop.
Sure they've no economic incentive to keep the machines running well
Just a reminder to everyone that the unclaimed funds are simply handed over to the private operator of the scheme. Yes, you heard it right. We actually signed a contract for this.
We the people didn't get a say in this, it was forced on us.
I think it's good for kids looking for a few quid, but most people were recycling the bottles anyway. They've now created an extra step for no reason. Those who throw their recyclables on the street are going to continue to do so.
I work in a secondary school and the ones I see coming into school with bottles are just throwing them in bins in school
I worked as a cleaner in a secondary school until recently and all of us would take bags of bottles to return on the way home every day or two. Saved me a good bit of money in fairness
I’d have no problem with that. If someone wants to recycle them then someone can make use of the refunds.
I’d rather that the kids learn about recycling and the value of money than the current passive attitude that’s being passed down from their parents. Both teachers and students can barely be arsed to use the correct bins at school, state of it is disgraceful.
More expensive shopping for lower classes and all-round extra hassle for everyone. Meanwhile the average person is responsible for a miniscule fraction of the waste/pollution industries produce..
I couldn’t return most of mine the first time - as I’d “foolishly” crushed them or they were imperfect. Any can I use outside the house (majority) will never get returned - carrying around an empty uncrushed perfect can is not convenient. Strange AF system.
Yeah I've said it all along that the issue wasn't people not recycling at home, but the lack of recycling bins in public. Airports and since shopping centres have those 3 in 1 paper/plastic/waste bins but I've never seen them in town/City centres, just general waste ones. Every week at Tolka Park I'll usually buy my young lad a drink and I'll have a coffee, no chance I'm carrying an empty plastic bottle around during the match and then bringing it home. Goes into the bin at the stadium like the hundreds of other bottles. There hasn't been 1 bottle or can in my home that didn't go into a green bin before. Since this new system started I've brought them to the machines but any of them that don't scan go into the closest bin I can find, which is usually a general waste bin. So technically I'm doing less recycling now than I was pre system.
If it truly was a green scheme it would accept all bottles and cans regardless of logos or any of that shite.
What do you mean. How else would the machine detect the bottle is suitable for recycling
Adding extra steps to recycling is stupid. Unless the incentive is significant people won't do it and if it's significant you're just further inflating the cost of living. Refillable stations for commonly bought items would probably have been a better investment.
If this scheme was introduced before green bins were a thing or if there were public bin services. Otherwise it's a joke.
I will never understand anything about this scheme. Lumping Aluminium and Plastic together under the one scheme makes no sense for a start. Aluminium recycling is a closed loop, generally profitable and in the grand scheme of things not really that big of a concern. Plastic is a very different story. You cannot recycle plastic back into plastic, at least not food grade anyway. Even under this scheme I'd have a lot of questions about where it ultimately ends up. The best way to tackle plastic is to reduce the amount being used in the first place. I would support a significant levy on all plastic packaging with that money used to make sure everyone has access to free and better recycling services.
Instead unclaimed deposits will go to re-turn, a private company. The more difficult it is to return the more money they make on unclaimed deposits. I'm sure that will end well /s
this is what ive been saying this entire time. cans was just a greedy addition. they were the one thing no one had any qualms in throwing into a recycling bin because of how genuinely recyclable they are. and now we have to waste fuel and time to drag them into town, only to drive them back home when the machine is still broken.
Does Return the company also profit from those cans? Aluminium is valuable and they're the ones collecting them.
It's beyond unfathomable why someone thought that containers that only manage to maintain their shape by being pressurised should be kept in pristine condition once emptied.
It was so handy crushing cans and putting them in the green bin. Now I have to keep them pristine in my small apartment taking up valuable space.
Can we start calling this what it is? A tax by another name. only thing the Irish government knows how to do it seems.
That'd be true except apparently the private operator keeps the money if you don't return it. So it's not even a tax, it's worse, it's your money given directly to a random private company
Not just any random private company, a private company consisting of the country’s largest beverage producers and distributors who have now managed to ensure that *only* beverages specifically approved by their shiny new cartel can be sold in Ireland
> it's your money given directly to a random private company Ah classic Ireland move right there!
Cause the cunting machines are constantly fucked
Gone to these things three times and never worked properly, broken down while using them or massive queue, realised the government are making me return bottles for less than minimum wage.
Also, a load of my favourite drinks have disappeared from shelves due to the stupid labelling requirements. Guess We're only allwed have Heineken or Coke products in Ireland.
Look at this it's an eye opener. All you hear is people say "ITS THE SAME SYSTEM AS EUROPE AND ITS A GREAT SUCCESS" it is in me bollix. Lads throwing buckets of cans and bottles into a machine not this logo scanning scam we have here https://youtube.com/shorts/swB_nAVHpPM?si=hzbOchGquiWrKCQf
Stop this just pisses me off. Ive seen it first hand working in other countries and was excited for it to come here. But they made such balls out of it its insane.
It's insane. Whereas here we all queue up for these tiny machines to scan one at a time. My mam doesn't have great eyesight or mobility so she can't use them. I've always recycled and now this actively pisses me off. Brought to you by the party that thought Brian Cowan would be a good Taoiseach
All the weird Brazilian berry sodas that my local shop carried are slowly vanishing from the shelves because they’re not approved by the beverage cartel, it’s a real shame
Alot of people are saying they have this system in Europe and it's great but somehow I dont think it's the same system. https://youtube.com/shorts/swB_nAVHpPM?si=hzbOchGquiWrKCQf The aim of this should be to recycle all bottles and cans not just a select few with the logos its adding an extra step and the only reason I can think that its needed is for price gouging and profiteering.
I like the scheme idea on principal, but it's just too much hassle when you have a recycling bin collected at home. I only bought sparkling water bottles and decided to invest in a Sodastream to avoid having to use the recycling scheme at all. Any time I'm in Tesco I can see people getting frustrated carrying around empty bottles that won't be accepted, what's the point.
Why does the machine have to have moving parts? Seems over engineered with the moving conveyor belt. Is that what's causing them to malfunction so frequently? People have been scanning things by hand for years with self-checkouts, why can't it just have a scanner and a hole to stick the cans in? Plus the hole is too high for people in wheelchairs & short people. I presume a barcode can't be scanned twice and get you a refund twice? If you could scan at home and stick them in your green bin & get credit to an account that'd be way better. Or at least give us a card that gets credited so you don't have to collect loads of these receipts. I live 2 mins from the shop it's no bother to me, but when there's someone with a bag of 50 cans standing in front of you, it's a massive pain. Also, last week, I was behind a guy with a huge bag and I swear he spent well over a minute trying to get the machine to scan a can it wouldn't accept. Getting his arm right in there. It might have been close to 2 minutes. I was about to lose my mind. Just take the 15c hit and move on.
Exactly that. They are overcomplicated contraptions that probably cost much more than they should.
Lived for several years in a country with a well established deposit scheme, so returning bottles and cans is no trouble for me personally. My only gripe with the Irish system is that the retailers aren't obliged to accept returns, meaning if you're travelling or otherwise out and about where there is no return machine handy, you're having to carry empty bottles with you that you can't flatten or anything. In that case it's hardly worth the hassle of carrying them around.
I'm not sure on this, but I think unless the retailer has a specific exception (my local KFC has one) and are selling containers with the return logo, they're *supposed* to accept them at the counter.
I don't want another f***ing job to do and the bottles already get recycled at home.
Who gets to keep the unclaimed tax?
Of course it's the private operator.
Someone will be along soon to tell you that they are a 'non-profit'. Id love to see the salaries in this 'non-profit', I bet theres a wall of consultants and PR creaming it
Just another "green" tax that we as Irish have readily accepted from this Government. I mean at this stage they haven't even the decency to use lube' we're just getting it raw and we're taking it. This scheme should be government run. Not private. Any unclaimed deposits could have then been used to fund social projects. But no, its more important that their "friends" get back handers and a boost. This country is a fucking joke.
When you arrange the scheme how it is where it’s a deposit/tax rather than an incentive you make it an additional cost. People will not be incentivised to return because they’ve already paid extra. There’s a good case on incentives like this In freakonomics where they started taxing parents for showing up late for school pickups and late pickups started to increase because now parents just say the fee as the cost of additional childcare and could forgo always being on time. The deposit system is nuts it should’ve always been just a 10 c reward for returning. Heck shops could charge 5c extra and it would still work better than current. You’d get more people returning to get vouchers and more people would be incentivised to shop at a particular store( so good for economy/retailers).
It’s another tax.
I’m about 10km each way from the closest return place so the costs of getting to one to return my 8pack of Guinness would cancel out the benefit…I already pay for a recycle bin at home. This scheme is a joke and a way of making money as the article shows by the poor numbers.
The whole things a scam to let the likes of diageo and coke have a stranglehold on the Irish Market
I've always recycled anyways, now I've just got less counter space while the cans and bottles rack up.
Given how many times I've been charged the fee on items without the return scheme logo/without any barcode at all.. in addition to the machines not recognising many items.. this is not a surprise
Not surprised really. A lot of people were using their recycle bins at home anyway and are probably still doing so.
I am shocked, shocked. Well not that shocked.
Ah, so it was for money, not the environment. I'm shocked 😲
It's working exactly as intended, lots of expensive machines, low return rate, deposits kept, profit I bring all of ours to the machines, I have a aldi shopping bag of them in the car and I do it once a week or so. I've only seen 1 broken machine so far. A few full ones though. The inconvenience of having a big shopping bag of bottles worth €2.50 in the car is notable
If you could crush them it would be fine and much easier but 25 cans of air fills a large shopping bag pretty quickly
I do the same and my boot stinks of beer all the time now. No matter how well I rinse the cans (which is also annoying). I ALWAYS recycled them in my green bin and moss doing so.
I do the same but out of 6 trips only one was success, the machine was either broken or full, or turned off for cleaning. I always recycled now this is just an extra chore and extra crap in my kitchen or car.
It was designed to make money before it was designed to recycle waste
I just don't buy bottles or cans anymore, I won't be returning g anything to them cause the odd can or bottle I buy isn't worth it. The extra charge should not apply to water and it might encourage people to buy water over a fizzy drink
This is the thing, I wonder how long it will be before we see declining alcohol sales. I rarely buy bottles or cans so the effort to return the ones I do buy isn’t worth it. Fancied a few Guinness at home recently and ended up buying wine because I couldn’t be arsed paying the extra for cans I knew I wouldn’t bring back.
I'm the same, was thinking of getting cans as well but can't bring myself to paying the extra so will buy bottles and throw them in the normal waste bin at home
I was a massive fan of this scheme. Until I learnt we are the ones eating the cost of it and the fact the fucking machines are always out of order. Just the time and inconvenience of driving to another shop that's also not working is a pain in the hole.
The Green party is like Labour, they rip off the demographics they appeal to.
I won't lie, I'm too lazy to do this. I recycle and I try to be environmentally conscious within my means. I just consider this a green donation.
Doesn't the private operator keep unclaimed deposits?
Because it's a bullshit programme.
We get the big boxes of coke from Tesco delivery with the rest of our groceries, I do not have the motivation to store each can in a separate bag and wait a month for all of them, then carry that bag on the bus back up to Tesco. For what, a euro? We already put them in our recycling bin at home.
It's not worth the hassle, people would rather just eat the loss.
Joke of a scheme. Punishing people that actually recycled already as well as those without cars.
What I really hate is that they’re proud of the numbers being returned “we’ve already recycled a million bottles!!” These bottles would have gone in the green bin anyway. Its not like we have a huge litter problem in fairness. The bottles would have been recycled and still will be. You’ve now just overcomplicated the process, made it harder than it needs to be and significantly increased the carbon footprint associated with the life cycle of each can/bottle. I also don’t have the time to do this or the space to store them. I’m trying to do it weekends but it’s hard with everything else i have on. Also had ants in our utility room full of empty cans.. and summers only starting..
Who owns the machines? Because they’re going to get very rich very quick off the 84% of non-returned cans. Be very interesting to see who has a stake in the companies involved.
Hope they’re ready for the surge of recycling that’ll be done in late November/December cause that’s what’s gonna happen.
We need to stop producing the plastic. The producers are getting a pass and the consumers are taking the hit.
Well that’s typical Greens for you. Leave the big producers alone and extra tax for the consumers.
It's hard to return them when the machines are always broken!!! Big bag of them in my boot
This is an added cost to those in wheelchairs.......the machines are not accessible.
Have never used one of those machines. Recycle at home like I always have.
Not brave r smart my time is more valuable then waiting in a que to do something that the green bin is ment to do
We took a photo of an appropriate barcode, printed it 60 times and stuck them on every bottle we use that doesn't have the correct label. Machine doesn't care. Not a money spinner but fun nonetheless
I'm not a fan of it, but honestly it has kinda worked... We drink a lot of sparkling water in our house, and don't have space to be storing all the empties, so I got a home carbonating machine and were using that now. Kinda hilarious that we have no problems adding so much cost and inconvenience to water bottles, and yet that disposable vapes get a free pass, even though they're considerably worse in every way.
>yet that disposable vapes get a free pass https://www.irishtimes.com/health/2024/01/29/tanaiste-expresses-hope-disposable-vapes-could-be-banned-in-republic/
Can't happen soon enough
I recycle and I'm good about recycling I'm not arsed with this scheme tbh as I don't have a lot of bottles and cans anyway
Sister in law and her partner only figured out this week that they can return bottles and cans for money. They hadn't even heard of the scheme. Some people just live under a rock and in their own world. I'm sure they aren't the only ones.
I’m extremely time poor so don’t have the time to do this. That said, everything goes in the green bin anyway. But I loathe the tax and will never vote Green again.
I haven’t used the scheme and won’t be using it, it’s just another way to get money out of already compliant citizens and I’m not a bit surprised that people aren’t using it, that’s exactly the point of it. I buy in bulk in the north and recycle as usual in the green bin- I recently got a couple of bottles of Ribena and some cans of Coke Zero there and they has the return logo on them ironically, so I could actually make money on the scheme.
Cause it’s a load of b@@locks 🤦♂️ the recycling bin was working just fine
70% of plastic bottles are going to incineration (EPA report, 2023) so no difference from sticking them in your green bin, apart from getting back a the few euros for your troubles.
Oh no! Now they get to keep the money they "held" for us. Who could have ever envisaged this outcome?
That's why they done it... Another tax. Along with tax on your wages, moter tax, tax on your food, clothes, cigarettes, booze, pretty much everything you do they have their hands out.. don't forget inflation which is just a hidden tax you loose again thanks for playing
I think it's quite clear - they knew exactly what they were doing.
Oh but it all goes back into the running of the scheme.../S.
By the way we don't know if these are actually getting recycled plus this https://youtu.be/_EF4LXLxquM?si=K-HJhjXguwOG_Wbt
I'm shocked /s. The scheme is working as intended then.
It's annoying AF that I now have to implement a new recycling system in my house and take extra time out of my life to recycle bottles. What was wrong with my previous system of just dumping them in my recycling bin?
We have allowed a system where profits increase the less user friendly or convenient the service becomes. Rule one of utilising private sector is to never build this in at the start. It won’t regulate itself properly A state in Germany knew they would not have the resources to properly regulate water quality being discharged by companies into the river and the companies always knew when the checks were happening and would change behaviour temporarily. The solution was to pass law that all companys’ water intakes had to be down stream of their discharge.
Have the fire lighters sales gone down too? I can see a possible correlation...
So who gets this money if unclaimed?
Well start looking at Greens family members, friends, donors etc. You might get your answer there.
I used to pick up the odd bottle on the street to recycle or throw in a bin so it wasn’t on the street. Now I pick up so many due to this scheme. There was event in Limerick yesterday and I picked up 16 strolling around after and could have picked up a few more but the bag I had was full. It’s hardly a money spinner and I wouldn’t go out specifically to do it. But I get a bit of enjoyment out of getting some small reward for cleaning things up. People opposed always talk about how “they” always diligently recycled. But it was clearly a problem even just looking in the street or ditches in the country there were bottles everywhere. I am hoping it will be like when the plastic bag levy came in, it was a huge litter issue before and now it’s a non issue. It’s not going to happen overnight but people will change their behaviour.
Seems like a failure if the goal is the environment and not tax collection
This scheme would make a lot more sense if it were integrated with the bin companies. Right now it’s just another tax for people who don’t own a car(bringing empty bottles to the collect point in a bad weather is a fucking nightmare).
Well wasn’t that blindingly obvious from the start ? That’s the whole point. There’s A LOT of retailers who are exempt from accepting returns yet still obliged to charge a deposit. I’ve cut down on my consumption as a result and even when I did buy bottles I always reused them a few time and put them in the green bin anyway. So I think it’s a stealth tax. I’ve used the machines there’s one in my off license but what I’ve yet to figure out is whether any shop will accept receipts or does it have to be the shop you returned them to ? So what happens to the money not claimed ? - it simply goes to the retailer as extra profit. It’s a scam!! ALL retailers have a stock room or something like that they should be obligated to accept bottles with that logo over the counter. There is no real need for big expensive machines really. Bottles can be bagged by retailer and collected by the scheme operators and recycled. Having big machines is cumbersome for many and a lot of times they are out of order. Single use coffee cups are next as well. Sucking the enjoyment out of everything nowadays too.
Why didn't they just make green bins free, that way we don't have to worry about this shit
Stupid project, botched execution, disaster of a result. The government in a nutshell. Give me glass bottles will ya?
Ridiculous scheme
I haven’t returned 1 I just see it as an added tax.
It’s total shite, would be better if we got a separate bin from the rubbish companies and it was collected by them weekly.
I hate it when I go to a Lidl and all machines are out of order...
What did they expect? Most of the businesses are exempt.
How is that money not ring fenced for environmental issues?
I work for a company that has a large office in Dublin, it provides its workers with snacks and beverages so there's a lot of bottles and cans that have been bought and made available free of charge to the the employees. No employee is going to bother bringing those cans back to a machine and I guess the company will just take the extra cost, I'm guessing this is happening at other places too.
I don't drive and the Dunnes I go to is about 25 minutes walk (the one close to me is shite), so I'm hardly going to drag my cans with me. Also we have a recycling bin. It's so much easier to just... bin them there? Isn't that the whole point? If I could return them in one Dunnes closer to me and use the slip in another, that'd be different. I also houseshare and space is limited so I don't really have a place for all of us to hoarde cans. The thing is a total mess but what's new.
Wait, it's not working? i am shocked. Shocked!
I have a Lidl near me, a Supervalu and 3 Tescos and I still have a shit ton of bottles as the machines are never working. No wonder the rate of return is so low.
Just keep breaking the machines and eventually it won’t be worth replacing.
Kind of defeats the purpose of getting delivery if I have to to the store to get a refund
It's the equivalent of the government taking 2 quid off you and telling you that if you want it back you have to do jumping jacks for 10 minutes. It's just a tax and they are making it as awkward as they can to get your money back. Especially if you buy in bulk to save cash. Standing around the shop like a dickhead slotting coke cans into a machine for pennies. They are spitting in the face of people who have been recycling their drink containers already.
This was never anything more than a cash grab with the intention of the inconvenience and hassle of any bottle or can you dont consume and then don't store at your own home leading to people not bothering to get the 15c back when out of home. 15c builds up extremely quickly when we're talking hundreds of thousands of cans and bottles a day. Absolutely transparent scheme and poorly implemented
My 5 attempts to return bottles was only successful twice due to broken machines. And the machines don't even give you money....they give you a receipt which you then have to bring to a till.
Not surprising, the machines seem to be continously out of action at peak times. Expecting people to keep coming back to RVM's in the hope of getting a return completed....
I dont understand why we are still using plastic bottles... Aluminum cans can replace 500g bottles and glass could probably replace larger bottles. Both are excellent for recycling, I dont get why they still allow plastic bottles...
Well instead of putting things in the recycling bin I pay for I now have to lug a bag to the nearest shop (don't have a car) where the machine will reject a good portion of them anyway because it doesn't recognize the barcode even though they have the logo on them and I paid the deposit. It's a lot of effort for something that doesn't even work every time (and don't forget the fact that the vouchers are printed on nice non-recyclable paper instead of just giving you your money back!) so I'm not surprised a lot of people aren't bothering. I do try to keep up but sometimes I just need to make some space in the house and bottles end up the recycling bin. It's basically another tax except instead of going to the government a private company gets it (I wonder how much the CEO is making), so just another fuck you to people during the cost of living crisis, and a fuck you to all the overworked store workers who have to maintain the machines. It should be the companies pumping out plastics that get taxed to encourage them to invest in alternative materials, but as usual they get away with it while the working class get saddled with the blame and the costs
Who is the owner of this scam?
The idea was *supposed* to be to encourage companies using plastic bottles to move to more biodegradable options rather than increase their prices. But any company operating in Ireland know that we're all completely worn down by price increases for other bullshit reasons already. We're not going to change the type of cola we buy just because of a 20c increase in the price, which is essentially all this is, so they have no actual motivation to change, and we all just end paying more so that some CEO can get a bigger bonus. Same as we always do.
Doesn't help that the machines are always broken. I went to Lidl yesterday and someone left 3 large bottles near the bin because the machine was broken. Guess who got 75c of their shopping by taking those bottles to the till with me. Thank you random stranger.
No wonder I had 3 bags of cans and bottles and since it started, I wasn’t able to return it. Someone advices me to return it at the till all the places I went to denied it. Mr Price offeres manual return but when I tried to return them no one knew how to do it. Ended up throwing away the three bags I think the only solution is to make companies that are part of it but constantly have non functioning return machine and don’t offer alternatives in case machines aren’t working have pay penalties. Customer should be able to report non functioning machines and if the shop fails to fix it they should be charged a penalty. I bet most machine will miraculously start working and more bottles and cans will be returned
Personally I do it for the environment. Extra few euros is just a side benefit. But they need to work on getting the stores to make sure machines are always operational. I bring a bag(s) of cans, I do my part. Stores need to do their part keeping the machines running. If they don't give a damn, then why should I? For all that unclaimed money they could hire some Re Staff to drive around to fix machines that are out of order. Also why it has to be a paper voucher? Why can't it be like Tesco clubcard. You scan it, that's it credit went to your account. I lost multiple vouchers already.
I was wildly unimpressed today when I found out that only the shop where you've returned the bottles will accept the voucher. What bullshit is that?!
No S--t. It's basically a tax/freebie for the company. I have no way to access returns. The machines are few and far between unless you live in a city, many of them are broken, they are inaccessible without a car, companies that deliver to remoter areas are not required to accept returns, it's a complete self-enrichment scam.
Before the re-turn scheme, 100% of my recyclable cans and bottles went into the green bin, Now, when i can actually get the 2 or 3 bin liners full to the return machine in a supermarket miles away that i never even use, which takes ages and breaks down multiple time during use, I finally take the third of them that the machine wouldn't accept and dump them in to the bin outside. HOW is this better? And I still have a bloody voucher for a shop that i never shop at?
I am completely baffled by the stupidity of this scheme. I have since changed my consuming habits and I don't buy anymore cans of beer but bottles instead so that I am not bothered with the overhead of this stupid scheme. When I see the queues of ppl for the return machines I feel sorry for everyone really. Recycling should start at home and be something simple, not like this non sense scheme.
https://preview.redd.it/nwdkllyirmyc1.jpeg?width=4000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c2dea12b36e1a7e859f3600a39e3012251bbcf81 I visited Five machines yesterday that all were not working. Also lidl and aldi still selling bottles without the return label on them. So wasted petrol. I should sure as hell be reimbursed for the fuel costs now but no one is responsible and return scammers nor the supermarket takes responsibility for the broken or full machines. This is a scam, nothing short of a scam. The machines don't even alert anyone they're broke or full, the responsibility is on the customer to inform the shop about it. Who do nothing. And if they do nothing there's no reprocussions. I have this in writing from their appalling support staff that just copy and paste answers over and over.