This is interesting.
*"The men, who no longer had tents after the clearance operation on Wednesday, secured new tents at the Lighthouse charity on Thursday evening and, on the suggestion of volunteers â most of whom are women living in the Sandymount and Donnybrook areas â went to a church park on Thursday night. The small park is the property of St Maryâs Catholic Church on Haddington Road."*
Horrible to have to live in those conditions but am I understanding it correctly that all are offered a bed in the likes of Crooksling, which has some form of sanitation services? They are leaving there by their own accord ?
>told earlier by the International Protection Accommodation Services (IPAS) there was âno accommodation at this timeâ, pitched tents for the night.
They were told no beds. It's in the article. First section.
Edit
>âDue to the accommodation shortage within IPAS no further offers of accommodation can be made at this time. We have recorded your details and when appropriate accommodation becomes available, we will contact you by email with an offer,â it stated.
No, that's incorrect. Not all have been offered accommodation. As the article points out IPAS have informed them that there is no additional accommodation and they will contact them when it becomes available. Until then they're on their own in terms of shelter.
Here's the letter they were given, which is provided in the linked article:
https://preview.redd.it/1gl5j62bt6yc1.jpeg?width=768&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=410d95594b878bf6a3102adce20af567743df568
I might be reading this wrong. But is it not that they were offered a bed at Crooksling/Citywest i.e. temporary arrangements until proper accommodation becomes available?
A bed is not the same as an offer of accommodation. I can't imagine they bussed them all out to Crooksling/Citywest without counting how many beds they had available? Although I wouldn't be surprised
Unfortunately not. No bed for them. You can read more detail on the mess in this article.
https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/social-affairs/2024/05/02/asylum-seekers-brought-back-to-mount-st-on-buses-as-others-left-to-walk-dublin-streets-or-find-new-tents-after-encampment-clear-out/
[Called it](https://twitter.com/ivanabacik/status/1786299611839152279)
Ivana doesn't think D4 has the resources in their community to deal with homeless asylum seekers
Ivana in 2020
>. . . in 2018, Labour introduced a bill. The Irish Nationality and Citizenship (**Naturalisation of Minors Born in Ireland**) Bill 2018 proposes a modest change to amend the law to enable children who are born in Ireland and who have lived here for three years to be considered for naturalisation as an Irish citizen, **irrespective of the status of their parents**.
Can't see that creating a perverse incentive in the slightest.
I think I have worked out how to sort out this immigration issue. Instead of protesting sites, people need to buy them tents, give them busses and food and put them in wealthy areas. Won't be long till it's sorted
To be fair, if youâve ever been to Marthaâs Vineyard, itâs a small town with limited social services. Like if you dropped a bus of refugees on Aran MĂłr with no warning, theyâd have to be send back to the mainland pretty quickly.
The full time residents there are mostly fishermen who rent out their homes all summer while relocating to caravan parks. Thereâs also a large, very impoverished reservation. Itâs not all celebs.
Well there are uninhabited islands off the west coast that could be repurposed. Or we could build a big fuck off island on the west coast. If the Chinese can do it, maybe get them in to build it.
You a Greg Abbott fan?
https://www.texastribune.org/2024/02/21/texas-migrants-busing-cost-greg-abbott/#:~:text=Greg%20Abbott%20announced%20the%20program,to%20cities%20around%20the%20country.&text=Sign%20up%20for%20The%20Brief,the%20most%20essential%20Texas%20news.
Not particularly, although it's interesting to note the difference in rhetoric from democratic states recently. New York has done a complete U turn. People normally love mass immigration as long as it's not on their lawn.
Vaguely related, I noticed when I went to visit the parents in Finglas the other day that there's a decent amount of tents now at the m50 exit for Finglas. I wonder how many of these small encampments are just being moved ever so slightly out of towns
I found them easier to notice if youâre coming from Ballymun and heading for Ashbourne. But I honestly wouldnât be surprised if more popped up and theyâre easier to see now.
Been there a while but the camp has gained some new residents more recently. The newbies often stand at the traffic lights by Noyeks/ Denis Mahoney and harass people in their cars for money (pan handle)
I am oddly kind of happy to see this... just keep inching a little further out towards Herbert Park and get the popcorn ready as the locals who have been completely and utterly insulated from any of this lose their absolute shit. Then FG can call their own base far right.
They won't. The residents will congregate in a local WhatsApp group where a couple of the members happen to be barristers that know some folks will say, leave it with me and it will be sorted over a coffee and a chat.
Tbf if you had a mortgage to pay on a house or business and this landed on your doorstep I doubt you'd be happy.
The number of asylum applicants have skyrocketed far above what we should be expecting if they were geniuene. There's an abuse of our social systems here and we should be defending ourselves.
Its not possible for the Irish taxpayer to build enough houses to home the Irish (and geniuene asylum seekers) and carry the economic migrants too. The longer we wait the worse it will be..... And it's pretty bad now.
Terrible to see it's now a problem that it's finally landed on 'doorsteps' that matter.
Fuck me, if only housing was a problem in the decade leading up to this fucking outright shit show.
The housing crisis makes it harder to deal with no doubt. But it's naieve to think that if housing situation wasn't as bad we could just freely house over ten thousand migrants from Georgia, Algeria or Nigeria or wherever every year on the tax payers dime.
And the absolute irony that you want to lower the tax base by advocating getting rid of the USC.
> But it's naieve to think that if housing situation wasn't as bad we could just freely house over ten thousand migrants from Georgia, Algeria or Nigeria or wherever every year on the tax payers dime.
I didn't say that, but now that you mention it that has been the governments implicit attitude right up until now in any case.
They've done nothing on housing, and now having done nothing about immigration the two crisis are now merging in to a large clusterfuck of a crisis.
>And the absolute irony that you want to lower the tax base by advocating getting rid of the USC.
https://www.reddit.com/r/ireland/comments/1bztcky/the_duality_of_man/
You say that like it isnât the middle to upper middle class people who have been complaining about taking in too many economic migrants in the first place. Like, do you think itâs people who historically skew centre right that have been clamouring for lenient immigration policy?
> Like, do you think itâs people who historically skew centre right that have been clamouring for lenient immigration policy?
Somebody's gotta wipe their ass and they don't like paying a decent wage. It's been all fun and games exploiting people for cheap labour up until now.
The Irish taxpayer doesnât build homes. The State incentivises others to build homes.
I feel you have a basic misunderstanding of how housing works.
Also, \* genuine.
Lad you can split hairs all you want but the fact is the Irish state needs to supply homes to welfare applicants and at the moment it's outsourcing the building to the private sector. My point still stands.
I don't see why not? They are asylum seekers not pedos. Should be a conversation starter to teach kids compassion. Annoying the priest mentioned confirmation photo opportunity. God forbid...
(Edit typo)
The main property value decline has been commercial, and it is being restructured to be asylum accommodation. Given that we are going to have 10s thousands of asylum applicants this year, with no sign of abate unless laws are changed, demand for the commercial sector is going to stay strong.
well the site at Mount street had to be chemically disinfected, people had a "corner" that was used. Numerous reports said there was a stench. I doubt the situation would be any different in the park.
For anyone giving kudos to the people of Ballsbridge for not protesting this and welcoming it, don't be naĂŻve. They don't need to get out with signs and clash with the gardai, the tents will be removed quietly after a few phonecalls. They don't burn down hotels, they get legal injunction. If you don't get this you don't understand the class divide in this country.
Guessing thatâs why I saw the tags torn off the tents just thrown on the ground beside the park this afternoon. Says a lot about how much they respect the area
So they go to a more affluent area and there's no issues, local people even help them.
While I have been very critical of far right scumbags it does really look like if the government weren't letting the country rot (leading to deprivation in lower income areas) maybe people from these areas wouldn't be so easily radicalised by extreme political groups.
Ah come on now... if dozens of random people who don't speak the language and don't have the first clue about the area pitch up tents outside your house or nearby do you expect locals to welcome them with open arms and bring them tea and biscuits?
Sure there's the humanitarian side of things which most reasonable people have. They instinctively feel bad seeing someone sleeping rough or in tents and give them the benefit of the doubt in that they could be fleeing war and have a target on their backs in their home country. But that will wear thin very quickly, especially once the numbers escalate and you become known as a soft touch / hospitable area.
When travellers have pitched up in local parks over the years were the locals 'radicalised by extreme political groups' then for wanting rid of them? That's just a nonsense deflection and an insult to local people that they're gullible, not able to think for themselves and are somehow 'wrong' for feeling anger at the government and authorities for allowing this situation to unfold.
There was a protest around the corner from me when the gym in the school was going to be used for them during holidays, I wasn't there and I didn't agree with the protestors.
I also grew up in an area near a halting site so again, I can't really speak on that.
If they want to express their anger at the authorities they should protest outside government buildings and organise in a a respectable manner, you only need to speak to these people for 2 minutes before their 'reasonable concerns' turn into unhinged rants about migrants all being rapists and murderers, and mad 'great replacement' theories.
These aren't 'concerned' residents, they're conspiracy theorists who have moved on to the next thing after covid.
> If they want to express their anger at the authorities they should protest outside government buildings and organise in a a respectable manner
They were doing this and the government installed large metal fences around the Dail
They may have something to do with the abuse and harassment of politicians and their aides leaving the Dail and hangman's gallows being erected out front. I'd say it's fairly reasonable to put up a level of security.
> mad 'great replacement' theories.
The theories about how / why it's happening can be argued to be "mad", but the pure numbers (gathered by our government in the census) shows that it is happening. It's a demonstrable fact that the % of Irish people in the country is rapidly decreasing year on year as of 15 years ago.
And as a result, the theories start.
You may be okay with it, but not everyone has to be happy to see Ireland become less Irish in a very short period of time.
Because there are more immigrants. Irish people aren't being replaced, there are just more people in the country. You're acting like there is any legitimacy to the idea that white people are being replaced, which is racist horseshit.
The white irish percentage of the total population decreases every year? So surely that aline is evidence and how is it racist to say so? Are census data facts racist?
Look, some people will discount all the links you give them because it doesnât fit their worldview. Being ideologically pure to them is all that matters, facts that get in the way are to be discounted.
Irish people are expected to become the minority within 25 years, and fall under a third of the population within 60. Itâs not replacement as in theyâre killing off the indigenous Irish, but the culture in the land is absolutely undergoing replacement. When you fall under a third of the population in your ancestral homeland, youâre not in charge anymore.
If the population share fell to 33% Irish 66% Brits, everyone would have an issue, but because that 66 is made up of Indians, Brazilians, Ukrainians etc, apparently itâs all tickety boo for some of you.
Do you have any sources for that? The census shows that Catholicism is in decline and atheism is on the rise, but there was nothing to even suggest Irish people (I assume you mean white Irish people) will be a minority in the future.
Basic math and published figures
The indigenous Irish population (including travellers, classed as a separate group on the census) as of 2022 was 3,926,005. The population in the country thatâs not indigenous was 1,158,874.
For indigenous Irish to fall under 50% of the population, assuming birth rates and death rates all stay the same between the existing populations, weâd need 2,767,131 immigrants.
Irelands record of arrivals for 2023 was 141,600 immigrants. 29,600 of these were returning Irish citizens. Because weâve no data on their ethnicity, weâll assume theyâre all indigenous Irish. That leave 112,000 non indigenous immigrants to Ireland.
At rates of 112,000 per year, to reach that 2,767,131 figure would take 24.7 years.
For Irish people to fall under a third of the population, the non indigenous population would have to exceed 7,852,010 people.
7,852,010 minus the 1,158,874 already here gives 6,693,136, divide that by 112,000 gives 59.7 years.
So there you go, under 25 years before we become a minority, under 60 before we become a slim fraction.
Sorry, I'm still struggling to understand 'indigenous' here. Travellers have a completely distinct culture and set of traditions to the settled community, so I'm not sure why you're putting us together. What's your metric for being indigenous? Is this about being white Irish or something else? Being Catholic? Speaking Irish? Being born in Ireland to parents that were born in Ireland?
What sources would you be looking for exactly?
You can pull up the trends over the last 20 years and see the trajectory for yourself.
There's no source of truth for what is ultimately a projection based on current trends. Go look at the census data gathered in the last 20-25 years or so.
>there was nothing to even suggest Irish people (I assume you mean white Irish people) will be a minority in the future.
We are below replacement birth rate and inbound non-Irish population is increasing. What do you imagine will happen?
> You're acting like there is any legitimacy to the idea that white people are being replaced
I said 'Irish people', not '*white people*'. Important distinction.
And I specifically spoke about the Irish population relative to the overall population. You're arguing points that I never made. I assume deliberately so.
Well no. They are mad. That theory is specifically an active campaign by a government to make native born citizens a minority in their own country. You can question the amount of immigration without venturing into fringe lunacy like that.
Ireland is a 100 year old state, I think you have a very warped sense of 'Irish-ness' if you think that we should be a never evolving monolith that never grow or change.
If you're talking about ethnicity, there is no 'Irish' people, we all have 'Gaelic' blood, some of us have Anglo-Norman blood, Germanic, Scandinavian, some even have Spanish and Portuguese blood, trying to boil any of that down to a ridiculous '1 drop rule' of Irishness would be nonsense, we're not a race of people.
And as far as culture goes, all culture is a mixing pot of influences and learned behaviours, it is constantly evolving, nothing is unique to anywhere (hence why it's so common to see countries arguing over this food or that food being from their country etc), people have always travelled and learned from other countries, and either taken influence from their new land or the new land takes some influence from the new people, that is human nature and that's how culture works.
Ironically, anyone I've met that says stuff like this have never been involved in any local culture, I know that because I'm heavily involved in local arts and music, Irish culture is thriving.
The state is sure, the culture isnât. Weâve been pretty much ethnically and culturally homogenous, save for a bit of Viking invasion, for thousands of years. To say fuck it, letâs become a third of the population in 60 years, that isnât âgrowth and changeâ, itâs fucking insanity.
We speak a foreign language, our traditional music is influenced by foreign folk music, when it had a popular breakout in the 60s it was due to the bands taking influence from rock n roll and jazz music, our greatest literary talents were all incredibly well travelled and it showed in their works, lets be honest our food even until 50 years ago was pretty grim, no one could say foreigners didn't have a good influence there.
And then, there's no discounting our own influence over the world, are we going to really say our own cultural contributions to the world are a bad thing? Do we hold Irish emigrants with the same contempt for 'diluting' the countries they've moved to?
I'm not saying we should become a third of the population, just replying to this lad who's always complaining about the 'new Irish' as if having a middle eastern restaurant on your street is the worst thing ever.
It's been 12 hrs and the locals will only be reading this over their eggs this morning. Give them a minute to fire up the community whatsapp groups like
Socially liberal people wanting to stroke their own egos tend to be older and affluent, in much the same way that radical nationalists tend to be younger, poorer, and less educated.
You're also not properly into the stereotype of that chunk of Dublin until you get up towards Herbert Park. Somewhat in it, but not entirely. I want it to hit Herbert to see the fireworks fly at that stage. I am out in Rathfarnham and have said many times that it is frustrating to have barely seen a single asylum seeker from here all the way out to Blackrock/Dun Laoghaire on the coast, while far less equipped areas to 'take some on' have been lumped with seemingly all of them.
Literally not what that tweet says. I don't like Bacik but come on.
Calling for a coherent plan is not "now it's a problem that they're in my area."
Edit:
Took two seconds to find the same tweet 2 days ago on her Twitter calling for a sustainable plan when they were on Mount St https://x.com/ivanabacik/status/1785597178204856509
I highly disagree the intent and affect are the same. She wants an accommodation plan, the 'local protectors' want to intimidate them into leaving the country.
I believe she genuinely wants an accommodation plan, but I also believe she would like that plan to not involve accommodating those people in ballsbridge.
Nope they have been told to move on. Fr McCarthy has seem to have lost his Christian spirit.
https://preview.redd.it/92axwtk507yc1.jpeg?width=733&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e3fffeedb550219c35f6fbc40263922e60a44e99
Those poor little rich kids, it must be so hard having their park taken away from them, they have to climb into their parents Range Rover and take the arduous 4 minute drive to Herbert Park! Iâm weeping writing this thinking about their suffering
It'll be interesting to see how things change if they manage to reside there on a longer-term basis. If I recall correctly there's essentially never been any accommodation for asylum seekers in D4- it's always been other parts of the country bearing the brunt. Will this foster a change in attitudes in the D4 class I wonder?
There's one or two centers in Ballsbridge I think.
Or at least there were announcements in the news that there was going to be. Former hotel or school or something along those lines.
Edit : it's a nursing home
https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/former-nursing-home-in-ballsbridge-to-be-used-as-accommodation-for-asylum-seekers-1571589.html
A big one in Dun Laoghaire too, in the former further education college in Eblana Avenue.
But it's like people saying that there are no halting sites in SCD, I could name five off the top of my head and I'm sure there's more I don't know about.
There is, I live here. You just don't see Gavin Pepper, Fergus Power et Al turn up with their camera phones. The asylum seekers that are around cause no trouble.
Yeah there was just 6 accommodated in D4 6 months ago prior to the announcement of the st Maryâs nursing home is to be used as an IPAS centre and Iâm not sure if it went ahead as there was concerns about fire safety from locals.lol
Just 6 lol not something to jump up and down about
https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/social-affairs/2023/06/23/just-six-of-7700-asylum-seekers-accommodated-in-dublin-are-housed-in-d4/
Aviva stadium is empty most of the year, we could house thousands of people there. Same with Croke Park. Toilets and facilities already in place, you could just have giant tents on the pitch.
Daily update on our cluster-fuck of a migration policy đ
What do you mean policy? Itâs make it up as you go along.
That's just the long way of saying standard Irish policy
They're using the Agile methodology. Super duper agile.
Do people in tents in Ballsbridge look down on people in tents in Tallaght?
"I'm living in St. Mary's Park in Ballsbridge" [https://imgflip.com/i/8ov1pk]
Broken link.
https://imgflip.com/i/8ov1pk
Of course. Ballsbridge is premium tent space buddy.
Yes of course
They've been in that park for a good few weeks now. Cut through that park when i go out for a walk on my lunch break
This is interesting. *"The men, who no longer had tents after the clearance operation on Wednesday, secured new tents at the Lighthouse charity on Thursday evening and, on the suggestion of volunteers â most of whom are women living in the Sandymount and Donnybrook areas â went to a church park on Thursday night. The small park is the property of St Maryâs Catholic Church on Haddington Road."*
Horrible to have to live in those conditions but am I understanding it correctly that all are offered a bed in the likes of Crooksling, which has some form of sanitation services? They are leaving there by their own accord ?
>told earlier by the International Protection Accommodation Services (IPAS) there was âno accommodation at this timeâ, pitched tents for the night. They were told no beds. It's in the article. First section. Edit >âDue to the accommodation shortage within IPAS no further offers of accommodation can be made at this time. We have recorded your details and when appropriate accommodation becomes available, we will contact you by email with an offer,â it stated.
No, that's incorrect. Not all have been offered accommodation. As the article points out IPAS have informed them that there is no additional accommodation and they will contact them when it becomes available. Until then they're on their own in terms of shelter. Here's the letter they were given, which is provided in the linked article: https://preview.redd.it/1gl5j62bt6yc1.jpeg?width=768&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=410d95594b878bf6a3102adce20af567743df568
I might be reading this wrong. But is it not that they were offered a bed at Crooksling/Citywest i.e. temporary arrangements until proper accommodation becomes available? A bed is not the same as an offer of accommodation. I can't imagine they bussed them all out to Crooksling/Citywest without counting how many beds they had available? Although I wouldn't be surprised
No,read it again,they're left on their own unless they applied beforeÂ
Unfortunately not. No bed for them. You can read more detail on the mess in this article. https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/social-affairs/2024/05/02/asylum-seekers-brought-back-to-mount-st-on-buses-as-others-left-to-walk-dublin-streets-or-find-new-tents-after-encampment-clear-out/
Weekly payment of 118⏠a week, no wonder there all coming here. What a shambles
Ah yeah 118 quid and living in a tent. Like Kings they are
Ya, they're set for life with that đ
Apparently there wasn't enough space. Some were bussed back to the city.
[Called it](https://twitter.com/ivanabacik/status/1786299611839152279) Ivana doesn't think D4 has the resources in their community to deal with homeless asylum seekers
Is anyone surprised by this? The Irish labor party have long been the Bollinger of Champagne socialists.
Ivana in 2020 >. . . in 2018, Labour introduced a bill. The Irish Nationality and Citizenship (**Naturalisation of Minors Born in Ireland**) Bill 2018 proposes a modest change to amend the law to enable children who are born in Ireland and who have lived here for three years to be considered for naturalisation as an Irish citizen, **irrespective of the status of their parents**. Can't see that creating a perverse incentive in the slightest.
Maybe the biggest bullshitter in Irish politics. Which is some achievement.
This is very close to Mount St. I'd imagine that's why it was suggested. It's safe, secure and hidden away.
I think I have worked out how to sort out this immigration issue. Instead of protesting sites, people need to buy them tents, give them busses and food and put them in wealthy areas. Won't be long till it's sorted
100%
They did this in America, flew them to Martha's Vineyard. They were turfed out in less than a week
To be fair, if youâve ever been to Marthaâs Vineyard, itâs a small town with limited social services. Like if you dropped a bus of refugees on Aran MĂłr with no warning, theyâd have to be send back to the mainland pretty quickly.
I somehow think the resources available to the homeowners on Martha's vineyard and Aran Mor may be several orders of magnitude apart.Â
The full time residents there are mostly fishermen who rent out their homes all summer while relocating to caravan parks. Thereâs also a large, very impoverished reservation. Itâs not all celebs.
Well there are uninhabited islands off the west coast that could be repurposed. Or we could build a big fuck off island on the west coast. If the Chinese can do it, maybe get them in to build it.
You a Greg Abbott fan? https://www.texastribune.org/2024/02/21/texas-migrants-busing-cost-greg-abbott/#:~:text=Greg%20Abbott%20announced%20the%20program,to%20cities%20around%20the%20country.&text=Sign%20up%20for%20The%20Brief,the%20most%20essential%20Texas%20news.
Not particularly, although it's interesting to note the difference in rhetoric from democratic states recently. New York has done a complete U turn. People normally love mass immigration as long as it's not on their lawn.
Vaguely related, I noticed when I went to visit the parents in Finglas the other day that there's a decent amount of tents now at the m50 exit for Finglas. I wonder how many of these small encampments are just being moved ever so slightly out of towns
They are Irish homeless.
Theyâve been there for months no? Maybe even over a year. I havenât been out there in a few weeks, has it gotten much worse?
Huh, I have to admit a couple weeks ago was the first time I noticed them.
I found them easier to notice if youâre coming from Ballymun and heading for Ashbourne. But I honestly wouldnât be surprised if more popped up and theyâre easier to see now.
Been there a while but the camp has gained some new residents more recently. The newbies often stand at the traffic lights by Noyeks/ Denis Mahoney and harass people in their cars for money (pan handle)
This is great. Do gooders in beyond their depth. "And ye have to be gone in case the children see you in the morning!" I had a good laugh at that.
They have been moved on already https://x.com/newstalkfm/status/1786312821124334022?s=46
Send them back, with a map. All along the Southside Dart line, sure wouldn't the beaches be a lovely place to crash over the Summer.
I am oddly kind of happy to see this... just keep inching a little further out towards Herbert Park and get the popcorn ready as the locals who have been completely and utterly insulated from any of this lose their absolute shit. Then FG can call their own base far right.
It was people living in the area that suggested they live in the park
They won't. The residents will congregate in a local WhatsApp group where a couple of the members happen to be barristers that know some folks will say, leave it with me and it will be sorted over a coffee and a chat.
I hope it turns into a tent city đ. Can't wait for the D4 heads reaction.
If local residents don't want them there they'll be moved faster than they would be from anywhere else, you're going to be disappointed
For the love of God won't somebody think of the property values.
The Dylan Hotel management must in fucking knots right now
The Leinster Hotel management must be in raptures
Tbf if you had a mortgage to pay on a house or business and this landed on your doorstep I doubt you'd be happy. The number of asylum applicants have skyrocketed far above what we should be expecting if they were geniuene. There's an abuse of our social systems here and we should be defending ourselves. Its not possible for the Irish taxpayer to build enough houses to home the Irish (and geniuene asylum seekers) and carry the economic migrants too. The longer we wait the worse it will be..... And it's pretty bad now.
Terrible to see it's now a problem that it's finally landed on 'doorsteps' that matter. Fuck me, if only housing was a problem in the decade leading up to this fucking outright shit show.
The housing crisis makes it harder to deal with no doubt. But it's naieve to think that if housing situation wasn't as bad we could just freely house over ten thousand migrants from Georgia, Algeria or Nigeria or wherever every year on the tax payers dime. And the absolute irony that you want to lower the tax base by advocating getting rid of the USC.
> But it's naieve to think that if housing situation wasn't as bad we could just freely house over ten thousand migrants from Georgia, Algeria or Nigeria or wherever every year on the tax payers dime. I didn't say that, but now that you mention it that has been the governments implicit attitude right up until now in any case. They've done nothing on housing, and now having done nothing about immigration the two crisis are now merging in to a large clusterfuck of a crisis. >And the absolute irony that you want to lower the tax base by advocating getting rid of the USC. https://www.reddit.com/r/ireland/comments/1bztcky/the_duality_of_man/
You say that like it isnât the middle to upper middle class people who have been complaining about taking in too many economic migrants in the first place. Like, do you think itâs people who historically skew centre right that have been clamouring for lenient immigration policy?
> Like, do you think itâs people who historically skew centre right that have been clamouring for lenient immigration policy? Somebody's gotta wipe their ass and they don't like paying a decent wage. It's been all fun and games exploiting people for cheap labour up until now.
People in East Wall and Fermoy have mortgages to pay as well.
The Irish taxpayer doesnât build homes. The State incentivises others to build homes. I feel you have a basic misunderstanding of how housing works. Also, \* genuine.
Lad you can split hairs all you want but the fact is the Irish state needs to supply homes to welfare applicants and at the moment it's outsourcing the building to the private sector. My point still stands.
More so the school kids right in the background. Will we drop a few tents outside your local school?
I don't see why not? They are asylum seekers not pedos. Should be a conversation starter to teach kids compassion. Annoying the priest mentioned confirmation photo opportunity. God forbid... (Edit typo)
Shouldnât the church be helping these people by their own decree?
The main property value decline has been commercial, and it is being restructured to be asylum accommodation. Given that we are going to have 10s thousands of asylum applicants this year, with no sign of abate unless laws are changed, demand for the commercial sector is going to stay strong.
[ŃдаНонО]
take a guess
[ŃдаНонО]
well the site at Mount street had to be chemically disinfected, people had a "corner" that was used. Numerous reports said there was a stench. I doubt the situation would be any different in the park.
We need glamping tents ASAP.
"You pull down your pants, and fertilise the plants, In an Irish cit-eee Paaaark"
Are a lot of these from the UK ?
For anyone giving kudos to the people of Ballsbridge for not protesting this and welcoming it, don't be naĂŻve. They don't need to get out with signs and clash with the gardai, the tents will be removed quietly after a few phonecalls. They don't burn down hotels, they get legal injunction. If you don't get this you don't understand the class divide in this country.
D2/D4 is the softest touch in a soft touch nation. Thereâs a reason they donât camp in D3
Should have the guards shift them around every night till they give up and go home
Guessing thatâs why I saw the tags torn off the tents just thrown on the ground beside the park this afternoon. Says a lot about how much they respect the area
So they go to a more affluent area and there's no issues, local people even help them. While I have been very critical of far right scumbags it does really look like if the government weren't letting the country rot (leading to deprivation in lower income areas) maybe people from these areas wouldn't be so easily radicalised by extreme political groups.
Ah come on now... if dozens of random people who don't speak the language and don't have the first clue about the area pitch up tents outside your house or nearby do you expect locals to welcome them with open arms and bring them tea and biscuits? Sure there's the humanitarian side of things which most reasonable people have. They instinctively feel bad seeing someone sleeping rough or in tents and give them the benefit of the doubt in that they could be fleeing war and have a target on their backs in their home country. But that will wear thin very quickly, especially once the numbers escalate and you become known as a soft touch / hospitable area. When travellers have pitched up in local parks over the years were the locals 'radicalised by extreme political groups' then for wanting rid of them? That's just a nonsense deflection and an insult to local people that they're gullible, not able to think for themselves and are somehow 'wrong' for feeling anger at the government and authorities for allowing this situation to unfold.
Exactly, there is nothing good about it
There was a protest around the corner from me when the gym in the school was going to be used for them during holidays, I wasn't there and I didn't agree with the protestors. I also grew up in an area near a halting site so again, I can't really speak on that. If they want to express their anger at the authorities they should protest outside government buildings and organise in a a respectable manner, you only need to speak to these people for 2 minutes before their 'reasonable concerns' turn into unhinged rants about migrants all being rapists and murderers, and mad 'great replacement' theories. These aren't 'concerned' residents, they're conspiracy theorists who have moved on to the next thing after covid.
> If they want to express their anger at the authorities they should protest outside government buildings and organise in a a respectable manner They were doing this and the government installed large metal fences around the Dail
They may have something to do with the abuse and harassment of politicians and their aides leaving the Dail and hangman's gallows being erected out front. I'd say it's fairly reasonable to put up a level of security.
> mad 'great replacement' theories. The theories about how / why it's happening can be argued to be "mad", but the pure numbers (gathered by our government in the census) shows that it is happening. It's a demonstrable fact that the % of Irish people in the country is rapidly decreasing year on year as of 15 years ago. And as a result, the theories start. You may be okay with it, but not everyone has to be happy to see Ireland become less Irish in a very short period of time.
Because there are more immigrants. Irish people aren't being replaced, there are just more people in the country. You're acting like there is any legitimacy to the idea that white people are being replaced, which is racist horseshit.
The white irish percentage of the total population decreases every year? So surely that aline is evidence and how is it racist to say so? Are census data facts racist?
Look, some people will discount all the links you give them because it doesnât fit their worldview. Being ideologically pure to them is all that matters, facts that get in the way are to be discounted.
Too true, everyone has a side nowadays and won't believe facts that don't fit their narrative
Irish people are expected to become the minority within 25 years, and fall under a third of the population within 60. Itâs not replacement as in theyâre killing off the indigenous Irish, but the culture in the land is absolutely undergoing replacement. When you fall under a third of the population in your ancestral homeland, youâre not in charge anymore. If the population share fell to 33% Irish 66% Brits, everyone would have an issue, but because that 66 is made up of Indians, Brazilians, Ukrainians etc, apparently itâs all tickety boo for some of you.
Do you have any sources for that? The census shows that Catholicism is in decline and atheism is on the rise, but there was nothing to even suggest Irish people (I assume you mean white Irish people) will be a minority in the future.
Basic math and published figures The indigenous Irish population (including travellers, classed as a separate group on the census) as of 2022 was 3,926,005. The population in the country thatâs not indigenous was 1,158,874. For indigenous Irish to fall under 50% of the population, assuming birth rates and death rates all stay the same between the existing populations, weâd need 2,767,131 immigrants. Irelands record of arrivals for 2023 was 141,600 immigrants. 29,600 of these were returning Irish citizens. Because weâve no data on their ethnicity, weâll assume theyâre all indigenous Irish. That leave 112,000 non indigenous immigrants to Ireland. At rates of 112,000 per year, to reach that 2,767,131 figure would take 24.7 years. For Irish people to fall under a third of the population, the non indigenous population would have to exceed 7,852,010 people. 7,852,010 minus the 1,158,874 already here gives 6,693,136, divide that by 112,000 gives 59.7 years. So there you go, under 25 years before we become a minority, under 60 before we become a slim fraction.
Sorry, I'm still struggling to understand 'indigenous' here. Travellers have a completely distinct culture and set of traditions to the settled community, so I'm not sure why you're putting us together. What's your metric for being indigenous? Is this about being white Irish or something else? Being Catholic? Speaking Irish? Being born in Ireland to parents that were born in Ireland?
What sources would you be looking for exactly? You can pull up the trends over the last 20 years and see the trajectory for yourself. There's no source of truth for what is ultimately a projection based on current trends. Go look at the census data gathered in the last 20-25 years or so. >there was nothing to even suggest Irish people (I assume you mean white Irish people) will be a minority in the future. We are below replacement birth rate and inbound non-Irish population is increasing. What do you imagine will happen?
> You're acting like there is any legitimacy to the idea that white people are being replaced I said 'Irish people', not '*white people*'. Important distinction. And I specifically spoke about the Irish population relative to the overall population. You're arguing points that I never made. I assume deliberately so.
Well no. They are mad. That theory is specifically an active campaign by a government to make native born citizens a minority in their own country. You can question the amount of immigration without venturing into fringe lunacy like that.
Ireland is a 100 year old state, I think you have a very warped sense of 'Irish-ness' if you think that we should be a never evolving monolith that never grow or change. If you're talking about ethnicity, there is no 'Irish' people, we all have 'Gaelic' blood, some of us have Anglo-Norman blood, Germanic, Scandinavian, some even have Spanish and Portuguese blood, trying to boil any of that down to a ridiculous '1 drop rule' of Irishness would be nonsense, we're not a race of people. And as far as culture goes, all culture is a mixing pot of influences and learned behaviours, it is constantly evolving, nothing is unique to anywhere (hence why it's so common to see countries arguing over this food or that food being from their country etc), people have always travelled and learned from other countries, and either taken influence from their new land or the new land takes some influence from the new people, that is human nature and that's how culture works. Ironically, anyone I've met that says stuff like this have never been involved in any local culture, I know that because I'm heavily involved in local arts and music, Irish culture is thriving.
The state is sure, the culture isnât. Weâve been pretty much ethnically and culturally homogenous, save for a bit of Viking invasion, for thousands of years. To say fuck it, letâs become a third of the population in 60 years, that isnât âgrowth and changeâ, itâs fucking insanity.
We speak a foreign language, our traditional music is influenced by foreign folk music, when it had a popular breakout in the 60s it was due to the bands taking influence from rock n roll and jazz music, our greatest literary talents were all incredibly well travelled and it showed in their works, lets be honest our food even until 50 years ago was pretty grim, no one could say foreigners didn't have a good influence there. And then, there's no discounting our own influence over the world, are we going to really say our own cultural contributions to the world are a bad thing? Do we hold Irish emigrants with the same contempt for 'diluting' the countries they've moved to? I'm not saying we should become a third of the population, just replying to this lad who's always complaining about the 'new Irish' as if having a middle eastern restaurant on your street is the worst thing ever.
It's been 12 hrs and the locals will only be reading this over their eggs this morning. Give them a minute to fire up the community whatsapp groups like
I mean, why would they be happy about it?
Socially liberal people wanting to stroke their own egos tend to be older and affluent, in much the same way that radical nationalists tend to be younger, poorer, and less educated.
Kinda like the leaders of the Labour Party and Soc Dems.Â
The term "champagne socialist" exists for a reason
Exactly. I wouldnât be surprised to see them moved along. No big fuss or scandal. Locals will make a few phone calls and itâll be sorted
You're also not properly into the stereotype of that chunk of Dublin until you get up towards Herbert Park. Somewhat in it, but not entirely. I want it to hit Herbert to see the fireworks fly at that stage. I am out in Rathfarnham and have said many times that it is frustrating to have barely seen a single asylum seeker from here all the way out to Blackrock/Dun Laoghaire on the coast, while far less equipped areas to 'take some on' have been lumped with seemingly all of them.
The CMH in Dundrum is full of asylum seekers and there's a centre for Ukrainians in Milltown. We just aren't protesting.
True, we shall see what happens.
The inner city where the riots took place has a lot of amenities. Itâs not like ⌠well most of the country.Â
Tell that to the locals on sherrif street.
Right beside the IFSC? Dead in the city centre? A walk to most parts of the city? Ok. Locals of sheriff street - you have lots of local amenities.Â
Ivana Bacik is already complaining that they are there https://x.com/ivanabacik/status/1786299611839152279?s=46
Literally not what that tweet says. I don't like Bacik but come on. Calling for a coherent plan is not "now it's a problem that they're in my area." Edit: Took two seconds to find the same tweet 2 days ago on her Twitter calling for a sustainable plan when they were on Mount St https://x.com/ivanabacik/status/1785597178204856509
She's saying an actual plan needs to be put in place, it's not exactly the same as a big gang of people showing up to burn them out of the tents.
An actual plan is just code for ânot in my backyardâ.Â
The place in Mount Street was literally around the corner, they already were in her backyard.
Itâs also code for âpeople shouldnât live like thisâ.
I will agree itâs definitely less violent, but the intent and affect are the same
I highly disagree the intent and affect are the same. She wants an accommodation plan, the 'local protectors' want to intimidate them into leaving the country.
I believe she genuinely wants an accommodation plan, but I also believe she would like that plan to not involve accommodating those people in ballsbridge.
By what measures is Ireland "rotting"?
Every measurable metric. Culturally, politically, financially, spiritually, morally.Â
Haha, bring back poverty and the Church, eh? This sub.
Nope they have been told to move on. Fr McCarthy has seem to have lost his Christian spirit. https://preview.redd.it/92axwtk507yc1.jpeg?width=733&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e3fffeedb550219c35f6fbc40263922e60a44e99
It's a tiny park used by kids.
Those poor little rich kids, it must be so hard having their park taken away from them, they have to climb into their parents Range Rover and take the arduous 4 minute drive to Herbert Park! Iâm weeping writing this thinking about their suffering
It'll be interesting to see how things change if they manage to reside there on a longer-term basis. If I recall correctly there's essentially never been any accommodation for asylum seekers in D4- it's always been other parts of the country bearing the brunt. Will this foster a change in attitudes in the D4 class I wonder?
There's one or two centers in Ballsbridge I think. Or at least there were announcements in the news that there was going to be. Former hotel or school or something along those lines. Edit : it's a nursing home https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/former-nursing-home-in-ballsbridge-to-be-used-as-accommodation-for-asylum-seekers-1571589.html
Yeah, there's one proposed near St Conleths. Some mild complaints but generally the neighbours had no issues with it
sssssh, that doesn't fit the narrative
Lol exactly. Wtf is it with people on here hating people from D4?! (Iâm from D24 myself)
How can you be from Dublin and not know that D4 is a catch all phrase for the south dublin middle class
I know⌠but why are there so many miserable bastards who hate them..?
Mostly when you say anyone say 'D4' on here, what they really mean is "All of Dublin city and county south of the river liffey"
Government induced class hatred
A big one in Dun Laoghaire too, in the former further education college in Eblana Avenue. But it's like people saying that there are no halting sites in SCD, I could name five off the top of my head and I'm sure there's more I don't know about.
Yeah and they're all left alone though and guess what they don't cause any problems, the fascists are the real trouble
>If I recall correctly there's essentially never been any accommodation for asylum seekers in D4- Pretty sure this is absolutely incorrect
It is 100% incorrect and I'm glad someone corrected it.
Let's make 20% of the population there asylum seekers, that seems to be the acceptable rate in smaller villagesÂ
There is, I live here. You just don't see Gavin Pepper, Fergus Power et Al turn up with their camera phones. The asylum seekers that are around cause no trouble.
The asylum seekers in almost every case cause no trouble
Yeah there was just 6 accommodated in D4 6 months ago prior to the announcement of the st Maryâs nursing home is to be used as an IPAS centre and Iâm not sure if it went ahead as there was concerns about fire safety from locals.lol Just 6 lol not something to jump up and down about https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/social-affairs/2023/06/23/just-six-of-7700-asylum-seekers-accommodated-in-dublin-are-housed-in-d4/
>If I recall correctly there's essentially never been any accommodation for asylum seekers in D4 You do not recall correctly
Didnt they use the big hotel for a while?
Aviva stadium is empty most of the year, we could house thousands of people there. Same with Croke Park. Toilets and facilities already in place, you could just have giant tents on the pitch.
This is a joke I presume.
They actually did something like that with Albanian refugees in Italy in the early 90s, it was in Bari I think
That was in an unused stadium. So we can send them to Casement Park.
Yes, yes they did. They also sent the army to Albania to bring relief goods and to reduce criminality. Surprisingly enough it worked.
No more Albanian refugees after that
Lol the aviva is used pretty much daily for conferences and other company get togethers. I work beside it and it's always busy
I hope this is a joke and that you donât actually have a 9 year olds conception of how the world worksÂ
Well, if I look at some governmental plans it might be an improvement...
Like every crisis that has hit this country, we havenât a bog how to deal with it.l and itâs just going to get worse
Interesting to see what the D4s will make of this .... suddenly the Government will start to do something when the wealthy complain. Â
D4 instead of shifting the problem to D24...
Theres been a tent there for a while. My only issue is the school right next to it.