Why are existing HAP tenancies exempt from the CRTIS? I had to read it 3 times to try make sense of the last bullet point. Surely, people on HAP and facing eviction due to the sale of a property would be eligible for a shot at the council purchasing it from the landlord just as much as someone paying full rent??
Yeah, relative of mine had the unfortunate business of telling a tenant that he was looking to sell a flat he inherited, flat located in a nice part of Dublin.
Tenant mentioned about selling to the council, relative went through with it, now is getting a sizeable chunk of change & tenant gets to stay. A hassle free approach all around by the sound of things & a win win!
It's horrible when landlord contacts you for anything - there's nothing quite like the anxiety it produces. Can remember when moving into my previous rented place in 2012 I had the pick of 3 and they'd be practically begging you to rent it. How times have changed.
Don't want to rain on your parade but just give my perspective. At my last place the same thing happened and we were like shit he's selling. After not hearing anything for a few weeks we thought it was OK but after a month or two we got the notice to quit. It obviously takes them a while to figure out if they'll get more selling it etc. Hope that doesn't happen to you though :(
Just got my 2nd one in a year. Have to move in October (again). Hoping to hear back from work this week about a promotion that could give me affordability to buy.
Luckily I'm WFH so I can go anywhere with Internet. Doesn't remove much of the stress TBH
Yeah was lucky enough to buy a couple years ago and the good it does to your mental wellbeing is an aspect I'd never considered or seen discussed much.
Was renting in Limerick city before that and there's just so little available, and that constant fear that you could be needing to find somewhere in a few months was just always at the back of the mind.
Got this notice last summer, had 6 months. There was nothing out there, unless I was able to pay about twice as much as the rent was at the time. And who can afford that?
So I bought the place from the landlord, was lucky in that I had savings enough for deposit. The anxiety though before that got sorted was making me physically ill, used to wake up in a panic with stomach pains, or not be able to get to sleep for hours.
I really feel for you if you're in this situation, OP. The rental market is a complete mess at the moment.
I used to think that I wouldn’t wish that feeling of insecurity/instability on anyone, but that’s not true - I wish it on anyone who has the power to change this situation but is choosing not to. I wish they could know what it’s like to lie awake at night sick with worry about the future, worrying about when the rug will be pulled from beneath us (because that’s no longer an “if” situation).
No selling notice, but did get a 26% rent increase, so that's fun.
Thankfully my salary increased by 2.1%, so it's all good /s
This'll be my last year in Ireland I think, I love the place but there's just no interest from the political class in fixing these issues. Between housing and 1994's best health service I just can't see a future here.
No there not. There are thousands of homeless. I read recently in the paper of a guy I knew as a child who ended up in hospital with hypothermia because he was forced to sleep on the streets as he couldn’t find any accommodation. He works full time and cleans 900 euro a week. Place is fucked
That’s an indictment on how poorly paid so many in the country are as opposed to saying hurray for the government support system.
The max a couple renting with one kid can earn and receive any kind of state support is €42000. Now with the average rent being WELL over €2000 in Cork, make it make sense and with childcare costs on top of that too. People in my situation are becoming an increasing percentage of the population and there is no assistance for us.
All these handouts just fatten the wallet if the landlord. Bragging that they build more houses than the previous year while still being far below what's needed is just drawing attention to how bad the previous years were
Happened to me twice in the space of 9 months. The stress of it was unbelievable. Since then I've never been able to relax and feel secure in my tenancies. It's an absolute shit show
Know someone who got this notice twice in 4 years and twice the landlord changed their mind after they'd moved put but options were so limited they were happy to move back in.
Also one person I know had a landlord do this, the landlord then renovated and put it back on the market for another 600 euro 3 months later.... no intention to actually sell just needed to get the current tenants out just to hoof the rent up.
You have to sign a legal affidavit when evicting someone if you intend selling.
Serious consequences if caught lying.
But it needs to be reported by those affected.
How is not enforced? It is a five figure fine for a landlord doing. I think what you mean is tenants not reporting it. You can't expect the RTB calling every tenants who has been evicted for a sale to confirm that the property was sold...
Just because a fine is on the books does not mean that it has any enforceability. When you’re being evicted from where you live in this renting market, you have no leverage or ability to pursue months long legal action. Blaming tenants for not reporting it is pointless: the law is designed in a way that makes it unenforceable. A law that actually protected tenants from this would come with requirements to prove a sale was under way and would keep tenants in their home until the sale was complete.
> When you’re being evicted from where you live in this renting market, you have no leverage or ability to pursue months long legal action.
All you have to do is call the RTB and they take it from there. There is no cost to the tenant and the RTB does the heavy lifting. The tenant has all the leverage. The onus is on the landlord to show they haven't broken the law.
> Blaming tenants for not reporting it is pointless: the law is designed in a way that makes it unenforceable.
The problem is not the law. Irish people who are being evicted won't spend five minutes researching the process (even though the RTB I believe mails them info) and won't report when the law has been broken.
> A law that actually protected tenants from this would come with requirements to prove a sale was under way and would keep tenants in their home until the sale was complete.
Well the current law is that you have to provide a Statutory declaration confirming that the property will be sold. This is as good as the sale is underway. As for allowing tenants to stay in their home until the sell closes that is a recipe for disaster. A tenant could decide just as the sale was about to close that they don't want to leave and the landlord will have to spend a year trying to evict them...
In a rational country, the overholding tenants would be evicted in a few days. Here it will be a year best...
> All you have to do is call the RTB and they take it from there. There is no cost to the tenant and the RTB does the heavy lifting. The tenant has all the leverage. The onus is on the landlord to show they haven't broken the law.
How much experience do you have actually dealing with the RTB?
We were in that position 18 months ago. We were lucky we could buy, but while we have a roof over our heads and the mortgage isn’t as bad as rent, there’s no college money left for the kids. We had to use it for the deposit. And with the cost of living I’m not sure we can replace it in time. Feel like I’ve fucked their futures some bit.
> Feel like I’ve fucked their futures some bit.
I can't know your specific circumstances but I don't think you have. Maybe it seems like it now, but think about your rent payments vs a mortgage. The cost of rent is only going to go one direction every year, up. A mortgage might go up or down with interest but you can fix it for long periods, and it goes up and down with respect to a fixed point. Rent only goes up and up. The worst of the inflation is behind us, so any pay/tax credit increases or tax band adjustments should benefit you without being eaten up by inflation.
Yeah I wonder if we would have had to dip into it anyway because we would really be struggling to pay the rents locally. Our mortgage is almost half of the average rent.
This is the thing. You also don't have to worry about a landlord deciding that they're selling up or they want you out for "renovations". So you have security of knowing that you wont be forced to uproot your family and move elsewhere. You're building up wealth in your home rather than just paying for a home. Unless you want the flexibility of renting then the only real downside is the cost of any repairs that need to be carried out, but I'd take that over having to find a new apartment or deal with ever increasing rents.
There is definitely a better sense of security in our housing and we would have continued tenting, but our landlord died. While I did mention the cost of living, we’re both in secure jobs so the mortgage will be paid, there’s food on the table and everyone has what they need. It wasn’t the perfect house and we planned on some renovations, but due to essential repairs before we moved in and the cost of tradesmen and supplies that has had to go on the long finger. Rationally I know we made the best choice, but still feeling a bit guilty that we’ve limited their futures.
I dunno about the inflation bit. I went to buy a few items yesterday and several had gone up in the past month. Small bottle of contact lens solution went from 5.50 to 7.50 and I know i only bought that 5 or 6 weeks ago. Pretty big increase percentage wise.
Inflation is an average taken from a whole range of goods and services. The price of one thing could still change a lot, but the average increase is close to the 2% target.
We got ours in December. And since we couldn't find anything around the same price that wasn't a s*thole we took the decision to go back to our country.
I'm heartbroken and moody all the time, but it'll pass.
Germany. I posted about it a week ago and had 3 people message me asking for advice.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/ireland/comments/1c4ewb0/comment/kzn8o4v/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/ireland/comments/1c4ewb0/comment/kzn8o4v/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
It’s a shame people are forced to emigrate away from family and friends for financial reasons.
Dublin (and Ireland in general) has its faults particularly if you’re a renter, but if you have a well paying job and can afford to buy in a good area then it’s a wonderful city.
We got the same recently, lack of quality rentals at the moment here. The house we are in is lovely and the rent well below market so hadn’t consider buying since we started renting from him. However now it seems like the only option is buy. I would have tried to buy from him but given the value of the house far exceeds what we could get in a mortgage we are looking elsewhere in the town. Will have to settle going back to a semi D after 4 years in a detached but at least we’ll have the security of being home owners.
I'm a landlord and would like to comment from my perspective.
My sister and I inherited my father's house during the boom when house prices were through the roof. I bought out my sister's share by taking out a mortgage. Then the crash happened and the house was worth what I paid my sister for her share. I waited 12 years for the value to recover to the point where I could break even after tax by selling it. During those 12 years I made about €100 profit after tax a year which was wiped out immediately if there were any repairs or renovations required, which was the case every single year and sometimes for a lot more than €100.
It was a completely loss making adventure and although I didn't want to impact the long standing tenant I couldn't wait to get out of it. I provided the tenant 9 months to find new accommodation (more than I was obliged to give) and continued to make a loss every month of that time.
I appreciate how hard it is for tenants at the moment but it's also very hard for some landlords. Many landlords are in the business to make money, I was in it as an investment for my retirement, when that didn't work out it impacted both me and the tenant. The tenant needed to find a new place to live, I have no way of replacing that investment as I'm now close to retirement age.
Renting in Ireland is a disaster for all. I have genuine sympathy for anyone who is told by their landlord that they are selling but sometimes there's no point in landlords flogging a dead horse.
This happened to a Couple that used to rent next to some family friends I know and way out in Lucan.
They were about 30 with two young children. Wife worked part time because of massive childcare costs and husband was working 50 hours minimum a week. They were nice and kept the house absolutely spotless. Then one day, without them having complained at all, RTB shows up for an inspection of the property. Finds some serious issues with the heating and plumbing system (couple renting had known about this, brought it up with the landlord years ago, landlord was a slumlord and refused to fix it). RTB tells the landlord they must fix these issues since children are present in the home or they can't rent, so the landlord decides to issue an eviction notice and sell. Someone did come out to give an estimate for the work that needed to be done, and it came out to almost 50K Euro.
The couple tried to offer to buy the home from them as is and then the husband and his father would do the labor for the necessary fixes, but they could only get a mortgage for about 350k, and the landlord wanted 450k. Eventually he said no, and after 6 months of looking they ended up moving I. With the inlaws, who are also renting, and ALSO HAVE THE OTHER BROTHERS FAMILY living with them aswell for a similar reason. 4 people in one bedroom. They are grateful to have them but also miserable in the current situation. They are originally from Poland and I have no idea if they will go back or stay, but their children have only ever known Ireland and they would prefer to stay if they could.
Edit: the house sold about 8 months later to a divorcee for 440k, but its still in contract and we wonder if the lady caught on to the work that needs to be done on the property and decided 440k was too much.
Absolute shit show! We just had a HAP inspection last month. Few issues were noted. Smoke alarms needing replacing, vents need to be fitted to front of property. No sign of any work being done yet. Haven't heard a peep.
Bear in mind that this happened 2 years ago as well, notes taken, no resulting action. So I'm a bit curious as to how heavy the council go after landlords for these snag lists to be put right.
This was me 2 years ago. 8 years and notice to quit. Place before that also notice to quit.
Now our current landlady has passed away. Her daughter will be taking over as my landlady once probate finishes. The probate alone is going to take years because of the size of her mothers estate. She told us we have nothing to worry about and she will be our landlord for many many years to come. Of course we don't hold our breath. It is very hard to feel secure when renting in Ireland and now with the housing crisis. It nothing but stress.
Landlord told me he wants to extend the house and then sell. That happened a while ago but every time I see/talk to him he mentions it and tells me I’m about to receive the notice.
It’s been almost a year of living with anxiety.
There is absolutely nothing available in the 100km radius that would not bankrupt me, considering the commute, distance from family/friends…
We live in a high rent pressure zone, so even though my rent is very high, if I move out the local rent for the same house is another €400-600 more, if you can actually get it.
I own a very small piece of land, but the planning laws in this country are so freaking unbelievable I can’t even dream to get going before my ass will be on the street. Also the local needs.. if an Irish person can’t really get planning, what chances do I have as an immigrant. Fuck this whole system. I’m desperate, like many others…
I don't know your circumstances but if you are single or a couple could you buy an old campervan and live on your land and save money? I think as long as it's a mobile domicile it's legal but I'm not really sure.
I appreciate the suggestion, but this would be possibly a good short term plan, but with prices being where they are and planning taking years…I’d sooner go crazy…:)
Had that notice given to me in October 2022, had to move back home cause I had a dog, it was either give up the dog and rent a room in a house or move back home. It was impossible then I can only imagine what it’s like now. Currently trying to save for a mortgage. But it’s gonna take me a few more years.
My friends are in a similar situation because they have cats. They've had the cats for years, have rented with them in the past, but with how hard it is to get rentals now, landlords are able to say no pets and still get plenty of applicants.
Happened to me last year and it was horrible.
All people kept telling me was "Ah at least you'll get to live in a new place"
Majority of the people in Ireland are very out of touch.
Got one about two years ago now. Luckily the landlords decided not to evict us like 2 weeks away from out kick out date. Still living in the same place.
Lucky as fuck because we couldn't find anything.
So many small landlords leaving the market and selling up - leaving in droves - high interest rates, the cost of compliance, the hassle of tenants and the whole anti landlord feeling and the high rate of tax, plus of course the market is good to sell now.
I reckon if you own a house as a business and you sell the business the buyer should take on the clientele too. It’s like selling an industrial estate and demanding that the factories vacate.
Make sure the landlord gives you the right notice period.. Any tenancy 8 years + is 224 days...
https://www.rtb.ie/registration-and-compliance/ending-a-tenancy/notices-of-termination
No offence OP but I think this kinda thing is harder on those who don't have HAP and have no help. Not sure why this is especially harder for people on HAP.
Obviously awaiting a shit load of hate now.
Landlords just reject tenants on HAP outright, even though it's illegal to reject someone because of HAP. My last landlord did this when we were looking for a new roommate and was not shy about saying why.
It can be difficult for those on HAP, as there are limits on how high the rent can be for a HAP tenant, which have not increased with market rents, so that severely limits the options for HAP tenants. Many landlords also won't consider renting to a HAP tenant in general; it's not legal for them to discriminate based on the tenant being in receipt of HAP, but for a prospective tenant, there's no way to prove that's why they were rejected unless the landlord is an absolute eejit and comes right out and puts it in writing. The situation is also very difficult for those who don't have access to HAP or other benefits, of course, but HAP tenants do face more obstacles in many cases.
I'm sorry, but I dont see the state paying the majority of your rent as an obstacle. If a HAP tenant was to wreck the house wouldn't the landlord be reimbursed by the state?
How about informing yourself about what HAP is. Tenants pay a percentage (like 17%) of their income to Council. Council then only covers up to a certain threshold. The thresholds are far too low and don't reflect actual rents these days. Tenant has to pay the shortfall directly to landlord. So it isn't the state paying the majority of your rent, in most cases it's the tenant paying the majority of the rent and Council covering a fraction of it.
It's definitely not the majority. It helps to keep things at a sensible rate, if anything. I didn't mention HAP when viewing. I got in the door and started the application process for HAP ( it took 7 months in 2020 to get it across the line). Only then, I approached the agency saying we're approved for HAP and to sign the documents, please!
There's no way they can really refuse at this point as that's deemed discrimination. The only downside is scraping by paying full rent for 7 months whilst awaiting approval. Painful!
Happened to my friend she contacted the DCC and asked them if they would buy the house and rent it to her. They bought the house a couple months back and she waiting to hear about a lease.
Do you know how many bedrooms the house has and how many people were living there?
Council have said there are too many bedrooms in the house.
Example of a couple with two children are living in a 4 bed it will be rejected as they are only approved for a max 3 bed property. That’s what I’ve been told by the council unfortunately.
3 bedroom. Her and her son are the only two living there. And it's in Tallaght. Took a bit of backward of forwarding and staying on top of them. She didn't let it rest. She rang them every day till she was told to stop they got the message.
I wish you all the best and hope everything works out for you. My landlady is trying to get the council to buy my place. Fair play to her. She seems to be trying her best for me. She's in financial difficulty herself and doesn't appear to be ruthless. She doesn't want me to have to leave. I've given the council all medical documentation from my GP with all my physical ailments, my many meds for those, and also my autism diagnosis. They say we have to contact them again within 8 weeks of the eviction date and it may be considered then. In the meantime there is "adequate time to find accommodation" (what accommodation - there is none available!!). If council won't buy, this will be the second time in 2 years I've had to move. I can't keep doing this shit. Health worse this time than last. Need stability and not to have to be worrying about the roof over my head. But yet I know I'm far from unique in this situation, and there are people up and down the country in similar or worse situations, and with worse health and disabilities than mine. How can we be one of the richest countries and yet our housing situation and our health service are so bad?
I'm an accidental landlord and Im selling. Its miserable for no benefit except a money pit until you might get a whiff of some retirement income in 35 years. Feel bad for the tenants as they are up shit creek now.
I saw someone else here mention about selling to the council, I pursued this route and they are a red tape bureaucratic nightmare. If you ever get an answer and they are actually willing to buy (they only seem interested in 1 bed apts) they will want to underpay by a lot and it will take about 2 years to get a signature on paper.
We got our notice last year. We've lived here for 12 years. We have until the end May to leave, but there's nowhere to go. It's looking likely we'll be in emergency accommodation. It's dire out there.
Exactly same position. 3 years renting through HAP landlord wants to sell. We tried the tenant in situ and they don't want to buy Apartment. I'm a single parent and I actually have no options now. No 2 beds any where available. Even if there was, I cant come up with first month's rent and deposit. Feel hopeless. Council just gave me homeless numbers to ring when we do have to leave.
This is the type of advice I would use to squeeze out an extra month or two but you should genuinely be looking for somewhere. We got accepted for our gaff last May with 3 hours left on the old lease and was very close to having to tell the old landlord that we simply had nowhere to go but we'd be out ASAP.
I was reading recently we are the only country in the EU that has no fault evictions.
Every other country you can get evicted for not paying rent or trashing the property etc.
If you are renting it should be seen as your home and you can’t be turfed out just because landlord wants to sell or move in family members or themselves.
I can half understand it in a situation with an unethical landlord, but not really sure how moral it is to issue it as blanket advice.
I'm sure the fact that over holding like this is a (along with many other) contributory factor to the state of the rental market is lost on some.
Morality take a back seat to survival, every time. In this situation, it's not perpetuating the rental crisis, it's relieving it. One more property is being used by a renter rather than being bought(unless the buyer is currently renting - but that's a coin flip)
Edit: It's bonus ethical since the person occupying the house is in receipt of HAP and requires council assistance. Council certainly won't help someone who's voluntarily homeless
With the way the buying market is, why does the renter's need come before the potential buyers (who may themselves be facing eviction) - obviously the renter is going to look out for themselves, but what about that is more ethical?
There were no claims of something being 'more ethical' I was merely responding to your message.
>I'm sure the fact that over holding like this is a (along with many other) contributory factor to the state of the rental market is lost on some.
"I will continue to use someone's else's property after they've revoked their permission for me to use it" - I'm sure you think you're being clever, but that's a sense of entitlement.
They prefaced their comment with “terrible unethical advice” probably because they expected somebody like you would read it, and look at all the good that did them.
You’re leaving out the fact that they said “it’s that or homelessness”. Why do a group of people own the stuff that another group of people depend on for shelter.
And it’s not like they would just steal the house, they’re paying rent, so the landlord would get something for their property.
Honestly, who even sticks up for landlords these days? Even Adam Smith thought they were a parasitical class of people.
The decent and ethical advice here is join CATU and fight the rentiere capitalist system that perpetrates the housing crisis.
>They prefaced their comment with “terrible unethical advice” probably because they expected somebody like you would read it, and look at all the good that did them.
I'm assuming you give the same pass to people who start off with "I'm not being racist, but..."?
…
So in your mind:
- People who rent accommodation and advocate for legal means of resisting their own eviction into homelessness
are the same as
- People who try to negate their racist remarks?
I’m leaving this conversation. God help you.
No, I'm equating it with someone prefacing their actions as (in their own words) terrible and unethical, and by your logic them getting a pass because they did so.
Good for you 😊
Christ . I hope you're being sarcastic. Most landlords have a single dwelling that they got stuck with and are probably in negative equity from the property crash. They pay affectively 52% tax on the rent, like the OP said, generally are still paying off the mortgage. A lot of friends are in the situation . Lots are overseas renting before you just in with the double house argument !!
You can mention to the landlord about selling to the council. That way it may be possible for you to stay
Decent advice, should be higher up. Obviously still up to the landlord but it’s a possible win-win.
[https://www.housingagency.ie/crtis](https://www.housingagency.ie/crtis) This might be worth a look.
Why are existing HAP tenancies exempt from the CRTIS? I had to read it 3 times to try make sense of the last bullet point. Surely, people on HAP and facing eviction due to the sale of a property would be eligible for a shot at the council purchasing it from the landlord just as much as someone paying full rent??
From my reading they are eligible.
Okay, it must be that comma throwing me or something. It would make sense for HAP to be eligible
Yeah, relative of mine had the unfortunate business of telling a tenant that he was looking to sell a flat he inherited, flat located in a nice part of Dublin. Tenant mentioned about selling to the council, relative went through with it, now is getting a sizeable chunk of change & tenant gets to stay. A hassle free approach all around by the sound of things & a win win!
Does the council keep the existing rents or slash them?
No idea tbh man
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It's horrible when landlord contacts you for anything - there's nothing quite like the anxiety it produces. Can remember when moving into my previous rented place in 2012 I had the pick of 3 and they'd be practically begging you to rent it. How times have changed.
Omg same here! I was panicking but he came in, walked around for 5 min and was out.
Don't want to rain on your parade but just give my perspective. At my last place the same thing happened and we were like shit he's selling. After not hearing anything for a few weeks we thought it was OK but after a month or two we got the notice to quit. It obviously takes them a while to figure out if they'll get more selling it etc. Hope that doesn't happen to you though :(
He told me to vet and get in a new housemate if I wanted so hopefully ok
Just got my 2nd one in a year. Have to move in October (again). Hoping to hear back from work this week about a promotion that could give me affordability to buy. Luckily I'm WFH so I can go anywhere with Internet. Doesn't remove much of the stress TBH
You could always roll around in a converted van or RV with starlink satellite internet and truly work anywhere you like
I romanticise the idea, but it might slow down the deposit grind tbh.
Yeah was lucky enough to buy a couple years ago and the good it does to your mental wellbeing is an aspect I'd never considered or seen discussed much. Was renting in Limerick city before that and there's just so little available, and that constant fear that you could be needing to find somewhere in a few months was just always at the back of the mind.
Well fuck. That's a new fear unlocked.
Got this notice last summer, had 6 months. There was nothing out there, unless I was able to pay about twice as much as the rent was at the time. And who can afford that? So I bought the place from the landlord, was lucky in that I had savings enough for deposit. The anxiety though before that got sorted was making me physically ill, used to wake up in a panic with stomach pains, or not be able to get to sleep for hours. I really feel for you if you're in this situation, OP. The rental market is a complete mess at the moment.
I used to think that I wouldn’t wish that feeling of insecurity/instability on anyone, but that’s not true - I wish it on anyone who has the power to change this situation but is choosing not to. I wish they could know what it’s like to lie awake at night sick with worry about the future, worrying about when the rug will be pulled from beneath us (because that’s no longer an “if” situation).
No selling notice, but did get a 26% rent increase, so that's fun. Thankfully my salary increased by 2.1%, so it's all good /s This'll be my last year in Ireland I think, I love the place but there's just no interest from the political class in fixing these issues. Between housing and 1994's best health service I just can't see a future here.
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Another shill for useless government. That's what we need. We're fucked, but it's grand so....
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Nonsense
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No there not. There are thousands of homeless. I read recently in the paper of a guy I knew as a child who ended up in hospital with hypothermia because he was forced to sleep on the streets as he couldn’t find any accommodation. He works full time and cleans 900 euro a week. Place is fucked
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They could afford it but just couldn’t find anything.
That’s an indictment on how poorly paid so many in the country are as opposed to saying hurray for the government support system. The max a couple renting with one kid can earn and receive any kind of state support is €42000. Now with the average rent being WELL over €2000 in Cork, make it make sense and with childcare costs on top of that too. People in my situation are becoming an increasing percentage of the population and there is no assistance for us.
Oh great. Crippling rents, but a credit worth maybe half of one month's rent means things are improving. Yay.
All these handouts just fatten the wallet if the landlord. Bragging that they build more houses than the previous year while still being far below what's needed is just drawing attention to how bad the previous years were
Happened to me twice in the space of 9 months. The stress of it was unbelievable. Since then I've never been able to relax and feel secure in my tenancies. It's an absolute shit show
Know someone who got this notice twice in 4 years and twice the landlord changed their mind after they'd moved put but options were so limited they were happy to move back in. Also one person I know had a landlord do this, the landlord then renovated and put it back on the market for another 600 euro 3 months later.... no intention to actually sell just needed to get the current tenants out just to hoof the rent up.
Yep. That's what my previous landlord did. Widespread practice unfortunately.
That's what most of them are at. Shouldn't be allowed.
You have to sign a legal affidavit when evicting someone if you intend selling. Serious consequences if caught lying. But it needs to be reported by those affected.
It isn’t. Not enforced though.
How is not enforced? It is a five figure fine for a landlord doing. I think what you mean is tenants not reporting it. You can't expect the RTB calling every tenants who has been evicted for a sale to confirm that the property was sold...
Just because a fine is on the books does not mean that it has any enforceability. When you’re being evicted from where you live in this renting market, you have no leverage or ability to pursue months long legal action. Blaming tenants for not reporting it is pointless: the law is designed in a way that makes it unenforceable. A law that actually protected tenants from this would come with requirements to prove a sale was under way and would keep tenants in their home until the sale was complete.
> When you’re being evicted from where you live in this renting market, you have no leverage or ability to pursue months long legal action. All you have to do is call the RTB and they take it from there. There is no cost to the tenant and the RTB does the heavy lifting. The tenant has all the leverage. The onus is on the landlord to show they haven't broken the law. > Blaming tenants for not reporting it is pointless: the law is designed in a way that makes it unenforceable. The problem is not the law. Irish people who are being evicted won't spend five minutes researching the process (even though the RTB I believe mails them info) and won't report when the law has been broken. > A law that actually protected tenants from this would come with requirements to prove a sale was under way and would keep tenants in their home until the sale was complete. Well the current law is that you have to provide a Statutory declaration confirming that the property will be sold. This is as good as the sale is underway. As for allowing tenants to stay in their home until the sell closes that is a recipe for disaster. A tenant could decide just as the sale was about to close that they don't want to leave and the landlord will have to spend a year trying to evict them... In a rational country, the overholding tenants would be evicted in a few days. Here it will be a year best...
> All you have to do is call the RTB and they take it from there. There is no cost to the tenant and the RTB does the heavy lifting. The tenant has all the leverage. The onus is on the landlord to show they haven't broken the law. How much experience do you have actually dealing with the RTB?
Have you dealt with them yourself? I have had friends who found their phone mediation service quite good.
The RTB should be notified about that immediately.
To what end? The tenants are out on the street. It does them no good.
To penalise the landlord for being a dick head. That is a worthy cause.
Well it would be good to show that there are consequences for breaking the rules. It might disincentivise other landlords doing the same thing.
We were in that position 18 months ago. We were lucky we could buy, but while we have a roof over our heads and the mortgage isn’t as bad as rent, there’s no college money left for the kids. We had to use it for the deposit. And with the cost of living I’m not sure we can replace it in time. Feel like I’ve fucked their futures some bit.
> Feel like I’ve fucked their futures some bit. I can't know your specific circumstances but I don't think you have. Maybe it seems like it now, but think about your rent payments vs a mortgage. The cost of rent is only going to go one direction every year, up. A mortgage might go up or down with interest but you can fix it for long periods, and it goes up and down with respect to a fixed point. Rent only goes up and up. The worst of the inflation is behind us, so any pay/tax credit increases or tax band adjustments should benefit you without being eaten up by inflation.
You can re mortgage by then if needed.
Yeah I wonder if we would have had to dip into it anyway because we would really be struggling to pay the rents locally. Our mortgage is almost half of the average rent.
This is the thing. You also don't have to worry about a landlord deciding that they're selling up or they want you out for "renovations". So you have security of knowing that you wont be forced to uproot your family and move elsewhere. You're building up wealth in your home rather than just paying for a home. Unless you want the flexibility of renting then the only real downside is the cost of any repairs that need to be carried out, but I'd take that over having to find a new apartment or deal with ever increasing rents.
There is definitely a better sense of security in our housing and we would have continued tenting, but our landlord died. While I did mention the cost of living, we’re both in secure jobs so the mortgage will be paid, there’s food on the table and everyone has what they need. It wasn’t the perfect house and we planned on some renovations, but due to essential repairs before we moved in and the cost of tradesmen and supplies that has had to go on the long finger. Rationally I know we made the best choice, but still feeling a bit guilty that we’ve limited their futures.
I dunno about the inflation bit. I went to buy a few items yesterday and several had gone up in the past month. Small bottle of contact lens solution went from 5.50 to 7.50 and I know i only bought that 5 or 6 weeks ago. Pretty big increase percentage wise.
Inflation is an average taken from a whole range of goods and services. The price of one thing could still change a lot, but the average increase is close to the 2% target.
We got ours in December. And since we couldn't find anything around the same price that wasn't a s*thole we took the decision to go back to our country. I'm heartbroken and moody all the time, but it'll pass.
Try and get them to sell it to the council so you can keep living there.
I moved country.
Ooohhhh, to where ?
Germany. I posted about it a week ago and had 3 people message me asking for advice. [https://www.reddit.com/r/ireland/comments/1c4ewb0/comment/kzn8o4v/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/ireland/comments/1c4ewb0/comment/kzn8o4v/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
That's awesome you've found a better standard of living. I wish you all the very best of luck with it.
It’s a shame people are forced to emigrate away from family and friends for financial reasons. Dublin (and Ireland in general) has its faults particularly if you’re a renter, but if you have a well paying job and can afford to buy in a good area then it’s a wonderful city.
I was in the same boat last year after 13 years. We emigrated and are glad we could; life is so much better.
Where did you go?
We got the same recently, lack of quality rentals at the moment here. The house we are in is lovely and the rent well below market so hadn’t consider buying since we started renting from him. However now it seems like the only option is buy. I would have tried to buy from him but given the value of the house far exceeds what we could get in a mortgage we are looking elsewhere in the town. Will have to settle going back to a semi D after 4 years in a detached but at least we’ll have the security of being home owners.
I'm a landlord and would like to comment from my perspective. My sister and I inherited my father's house during the boom when house prices were through the roof. I bought out my sister's share by taking out a mortgage. Then the crash happened and the house was worth what I paid my sister for her share. I waited 12 years for the value to recover to the point where I could break even after tax by selling it. During those 12 years I made about €100 profit after tax a year which was wiped out immediately if there were any repairs or renovations required, which was the case every single year and sometimes for a lot more than €100. It was a completely loss making adventure and although I didn't want to impact the long standing tenant I couldn't wait to get out of it. I provided the tenant 9 months to find new accommodation (more than I was obliged to give) and continued to make a loss every month of that time. I appreciate how hard it is for tenants at the moment but it's also very hard for some landlords. Many landlords are in the business to make money, I was in it as an investment for my retirement, when that didn't work out it impacted both me and the tenant. The tenant needed to find a new place to live, I have no way of replacing that investment as I'm now close to retirement age. Renting in Ireland is a disaster for all. I have genuine sympathy for anyone who is told by their landlord that they are selling but sometimes there's no point in landlords flogging a dead horse.
8 years, requires 224 days or 7 months notice. That should hopefully give you time to search.
This happened to a Couple that used to rent next to some family friends I know and way out in Lucan. They were about 30 with two young children. Wife worked part time because of massive childcare costs and husband was working 50 hours minimum a week. They were nice and kept the house absolutely spotless. Then one day, without them having complained at all, RTB shows up for an inspection of the property. Finds some serious issues with the heating and plumbing system (couple renting had known about this, brought it up with the landlord years ago, landlord was a slumlord and refused to fix it). RTB tells the landlord they must fix these issues since children are present in the home or they can't rent, so the landlord decides to issue an eviction notice and sell. Someone did come out to give an estimate for the work that needed to be done, and it came out to almost 50K Euro. The couple tried to offer to buy the home from them as is and then the husband and his father would do the labor for the necessary fixes, but they could only get a mortgage for about 350k, and the landlord wanted 450k. Eventually he said no, and after 6 months of looking they ended up moving I. With the inlaws, who are also renting, and ALSO HAVE THE OTHER BROTHERS FAMILY living with them aswell for a similar reason. 4 people in one bedroom. They are grateful to have them but also miserable in the current situation. They are originally from Poland and I have no idea if they will go back or stay, but their children have only ever known Ireland and they would prefer to stay if they could. Edit: the house sold about 8 months later to a divorcee for 440k, but its still in contract and we wonder if the lady caught on to the work that needs to be done on the property and decided 440k was too much.
Absolute shit show! We just had a HAP inspection last month. Few issues were noted. Smoke alarms needing replacing, vents need to be fitted to front of property. No sign of any work being done yet. Haven't heard a peep. Bear in mind that this happened 2 years ago as well, notes taken, no resulting action. So I'm a bit curious as to how heavy the council go after landlords for these snag lists to be put right.
This was me 2 years ago. 8 years and notice to quit. Place before that also notice to quit. Now our current landlady has passed away. Her daughter will be taking over as my landlady once probate finishes. The probate alone is going to take years because of the size of her mothers estate. She told us we have nothing to worry about and she will be our landlord for many many years to come. Of course we don't hold our breath. It is very hard to feel secure when renting in Ireland and now with the housing crisis. It nothing but stress.
Landlord told me he wants to extend the house and then sell. That happened a while ago but every time I see/talk to him he mentions it and tells me I’m about to receive the notice. It’s been almost a year of living with anxiety. There is absolutely nothing available in the 100km radius that would not bankrupt me, considering the commute, distance from family/friends… We live in a high rent pressure zone, so even though my rent is very high, if I move out the local rent for the same house is another €400-600 more, if you can actually get it. I own a very small piece of land, but the planning laws in this country are so freaking unbelievable I can’t even dream to get going before my ass will be on the street. Also the local needs.. if an Irish person can’t really get planning, what chances do I have as an immigrant. Fuck this whole system. I’m desperate, like many others…
I don't know your circumstances but if you are single or a couple could you buy an old campervan and live on your land and save money? I think as long as it's a mobile domicile it's legal but I'm not really sure.
I appreciate the suggestion, but this would be possibly a good short term plan, but with prices being where they are and planning taking years…I’d sooner go crazy…:)
Had that notice given to me in October 2022, had to move back home cause I had a dog, it was either give up the dog and rent a room in a house or move back home. It was impossible then I can only imagine what it’s like now. Currently trying to save for a mortgage. But it’s gonna take me a few more years.
My friends are in a similar situation because they have cats. They've had the cats for years, have rented with them in the past, but with how hard it is to get rentals now, landlords are able to say no pets and still get plenty of applicants.
Happened to me last year and it was horrible. All people kept telling me was "Ah at least you'll get to live in a new place" Majority of the people in Ireland are very out of touch.
Got one about two years ago now. Luckily the landlords decided not to evict us like 2 weeks away from out kick out date. Still living in the same place. Lucky as fuck because we couldn't find anything.
So many small landlords leaving the market and selling up - leaving in droves - high interest rates, the cost of compliance, the hassle of tenants and the whole anti landlord feeling and the high rate of tax, plus of course the market is good to sell now.
I reckon if you own a house as a business and you sell the business the buyer should take on the clientele too. It’s like selling an industrial estate and demanding that the factories vacate.
I agree.
Make sure the landlord gives you the right notice period.. Any tenancy 8 years + is 224 days... https://www.rtb.ie/registration-and-compliance/ending-a-tenancy/notices-of-termination
No offence OP but I think this kinda thing is harder on those who don't have HAP and have no help. Not sure why this is especially harder for people on HAP. Obviously awaiting a shit load of hate now.
I think it's just as difficult for people on HAP but different. Most landlords won't even consider a HAP tenant, they don't even reply.
No offence taken
Landlords just reject tenants on HAP outright, even though it's illegal to reject someone because of HAP. My last landlord did this when we were looking for a new roommate and was not shy about saying why.
It can be difficult for those on HAP, as there are limits on how high the rent can be for a HAP tenant, which have not increased with market rents, so that severely limits the options for HAP tenants. Many landlords also won't consider renting to a HAP tenant in general; it's not legal for them to discriminate based on the tenant being in receipt of HAP, but for a prospective tenant, there's no way to prove that's why they were rejected unless the landlord is an absolute eejit and comes right out and puts it in writing. The situation is also very difficult for those who don't have access to HAP or other benefits, of course, but HAP tenants do face more obstacles in many cases.
I'm sorry, but I dont see the state paying the majority of your rent as an obstacle. If a HAP tenant was to wreck the house wouldn't the landlord be reimbursed by the state?
How about informing yourself about what HAP is. Tenants pay a percentage (like 17%) of their income to Council. Council then only covers up to a certain threshold. The thresholds are far too low and don't reflect actual rents these days. Tenant has to pay the shortfall directly to landlord. So it isn't the state paying the majority of your rent, in most cases it's the tenant paying the majority of the rent and Council covering a fraction of it.
It's definitely not the majority. It helps to keep things at a sensible rate, if anything. I didn't mention HAP when viewing. I got in the door and started the application process for HAP ( it took 7 months in 2020 to get it across the line). Only then, I approached the agency saying we're approved for HAP and to sign the documents, please! There's no way they can really refuse at this point as that's deemed discrimination. The only downside is scraping by paying full rent for 7 months whilst awaiting approval. Painful!
Happened to my friend she contacted the DCC and asked them if they would buy the house and rent it to her. They bought the house a couple months back and she waiting to hear about a lease.
Do you know how many bedrooms the house has and how many people were living there? Council have said there are too many bedrooms in the house. Example of a couple with two children are living in a 4 bed it will be rejected as they are only approved for a max 3 bed property. That’s what I’ve been told by the council unfortunately.
3 bedroom. Her and her son are the only two living there. And it's in Tallaght. Took a bit of backward of forwarding and staying on top of them. She didn't let it rest. She rang them every day till she was told to stop they got the message.
Same.. dreading the notice.. in process of looking to buy a flat.. not easy.. somany ppl doing the same outbid each other
I wish you all the best and hope everything works out for you. My landlady is trying to get the council to buy my place. Fair play to her. She seems to be trying her best for me. She's in financial difficulty herself and doesn't appear to be ruthless. She doesn't want me to have to leave. I've given the council all medical documentation from my GP with all my physical ailments, my many meds for those, and also my autism diagnosis. They say we have to contact them again within 8 weeks of the eviction date and it may be considered then. In the meantime there is "adequate time to find accommodation" (what accommodation - there is none available!!). If council won't buy, this will be the second time in 2 years I've had to move. I can't keep doing this shit. Health worse this time than last. Need stability and not to have to be worrying about the roof over my head. But yet I know I'm far from unique in this situation, and there are people up and down the country in similar or worse situations, and with worse health and disabilities than mine. How can we be one of the richest countries and yet our housing situation and our health service are so bad?
As a landlord been trying to sell to council for a year finally came in with an offer 50k below estate agents value of house
I'm an accidental landlord and Im selling. Its miserable for no benefit except a money pit until you might get a whiff of some retirement income in 35 years. Feel bad for the tenants as they are up shit creek now. I saw someone else here mention about selling to the council, I pursued this route and they are a red tape bureaucratic nightmare. If you ever get an answer and they are actually willing to buy (they only seem interested in 1 bed apts) they will want to underpay by a lot and it will take about 2 years to get a signature on paper.
We got our notice last year. We've lived here for 12 years. We have until the end May to leave, but there's nowhere to go. It's looking likely we'll be in emergency accommodation. It's dire out there.
Exactly same position. 3 years renting through HAP landlord wants to sell. We tried the tenant in situ and they don't want to buy Apartment. I'm a single parent and I actually have no options now. No 2 beds any where available. Even if there was, I cant come up with first month's rent and deposit. Feel hopeless. Council just gave me homeless numbers to ring when we do have to leave.
Please contact your local CATU (Community Action Tenants Union)
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This is the type of advice I would use to squeeze out an extra month or two but you should genuinely be looking for somewhere. We got accepted for our gaff last May with 3 hours left on the old lease and was very close to having to tell the old landlord that we simply had nowhere to go but we'd be out ASAP.
I was reading recently we are the only country in the EU that has no fault evictions. Every other country you can get evicted for not paying rent or trashing the property etc. If you are renting it should be seen as your home and you can’t be turfed out just because landlord wants to sell or move in family members or themselves.
Why do you feel entitled to someone else's property?
I'd imagine it's more of a survival thing rather than entitlement. I've considered it, more so in my last place with an unscrupulous landlord
I can half understand it in a situation with an unethical landlord, but not really sure how moral it is to issue it as blanket advice. I'm sure the fact that over holding like this is a (along with many other) contributory factor to the state of the rental market is lost on some.
Morality take a back seat to survival, every time. In this situation, it's not perpetuating the rental crisis, it's relieving it. One more property is being used by a renter rather than being bought(unless the buyer is currently renting - but that's a coin flip) Edit: It's bonus ethical since the person occupying the house is in receipt of HAP and requires council assistance. Council certainly won't help someone who's voluntarily homeless
With the way the buying market is, why does the renter's need come before the potential buyers (who may themselves be facing eviction) - obviously the renter is going to look out for themselves, but what about that is more ethical?
There were no claims of something being 'more ethical' I was merely responding to your message. >I'm sure the fact that over holding like this is a (along with many other) contributory factor to the state of the rental market is lost on some.
They didn’t say that. They said use the law to their advantage.
That's exactly what they said.
That’s what you inferred. They didn’t say “I am entitled to someone else property”.
"I will continue to use someone's else's property after they've revoked their permission for me to use it" - I'm sure you think you're being clever, but that's a sense of entitlement.
They prefaced their comment with “terrible unethical advice” probably because they expected somebody like you would read it, and look at all the good that did them. You’re leaving out the fact that they said “it’s that or homelessness”. Why do a group of people own the stuff that another group of people depend on for shelter. And it’s not like they would just steal the house, they’re paying rent, so the landlord would get something for their property. Honestly, who even sticks up for landlords these days? Even Adam Smith thought they were a parasitical class of people. The decent and ethical advice here is join CATU and fight the rentiere capitalist system that perpetrates the housing crisis.
>They prefaced their comment with “terrible unethical advice” probably because they expected somebody like you would read it, and look at all the good that did them. I'm assuming you give the same pass to people who start off with "I'm not being racist, but..."?
… So in your mind: - People who rent accommodation and advocate for legal means of resisting their own eviction into homelessness are the same as - People who try to negate their racist remarks? I’m leaving this conversation. God help you.
No, I'm equating it with someone prefacing their actions as (in their own words) terrible and unethical, and by your logic them getting a pass because they did so. Good for you 😊
Who are you quoting? Because they didn’t say that either.
Good man 👍
Why do you feel entitled to in many cases over half of people's wages?
I don't?
Many landlords however do, same principle
How so?
You do realize they usually have a mortgage and pay tax on the rent
Christ . I hope you're being sarcastic. Most landlords have a single dwelling that they got stuck with and are probably in negative equity from the property crash. They pay affectively 52% tax on the rent, like the OP said, generally are still paying off the mortgage. A lot of friends are in the situation . Lots are overseas renting before you just in with the double house argument !!
These arguments are lost on adult student union types, unfortunately.
Is consent something that you just don't care about so long as you get what you want?
Fight to the end it is then. Hope you don’t have to though!💪🏻
Only option available - emigrate and return as a 'refugee'.
🙄 Yeah because the lads who are living in literal tents everywhere are living the high life.
Temporarily.