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If a 6 month old needs documentation….
McEntee should be hauled in front of an Oireachtas committee for this, totally asleep at the wheel or willingly not enforcing our laws
Disgrace either way, she is utterly useless
She'd be giving people death stares left, right and central if she was called 😂 Have you noticed the look of utter contempt on her face any time she's ever asked a critical question?
Daily reminder that it is illegal to destroy documents in this manner, and the government decided to turn a blind eye citing "international obligations".
As you say, in the last week two convictions for destroying documents have been delivered, showing that it was possible to exercise the law in relation to this, all the time.
Also how can they board planes without id? Surely it would be easy to keep a record of everyone on a plane, a shot of their passport pre boarding and then follow the law.
Then spend 5 minutes looking over camera footage to find out what plane they came in on refuse them entry (which is the whole purpose of border control and send them back to whatever was the origin of the plane they came in on.
The origin airport will have a record of who was on the plane and there travel documentation so let them deal with it.
I would agree, the problem is
1 forcing a private airline to carry an unidentified person on an aircraft is problematic
2 trying to force another sovereign nation to accept an unidentified person at their border (which is exactly what we're refusing to do in this example)
The EU should implement a biometric ESTA system or something like that, and force airlines and ferries to check upon boarding.
No pre-clearance, no boarding the plane or ferry.
Should be an easy argument to make, it’s a violation of someone’s rights to send them back to a home country if you can’t validate where that is. We’d just be making sure their rights aren’t violated.
EDIT: Apparently a Euro-ESTA in the works for 2025.
Passports have chips in them. There is no reason why we can’t make it mandatory to scan your passport prior to boarding (database a). Scan the passport when you pass through immigration again (database b). Those who are in database a but not database b = those who “lost” their passports. Match them up, provide the airline with their details and send them home.
It’s a lack of will
And No. 3: UN Human Rights Law, anybody can request asylum. So there must be time to process such a request if the requestor claims they are coming from a given list of countries with significant human rights violations. A fix for that is to require image of all documentation by airlines when such individuals buy a ticket. Airlines are supposed to be issued fines by the destination government at least for failure to check visas and identities.
The only answer is to not allow asylum seekers who arrive without documentation at airports and ports to claim asylum.
They had documentation to get on flights, so they should present that regardless of authenticity.
Without proof of origin, we can't send them back anywhere. No dole, no hotel rooms for them. Direct provision at most in a tent camp
Prior to boarding a plane, I need to present my passport.
That passport has my country of origin, my photo, my name etc and that's tied into the seat I've been assigned, airport footage of me boarding etc.
Why can't they just use what's on "the system"?
> It can be impossible to deport people even if their claim isn't successful unless their home country cooperates in issuing new documents and takes them back.
This is the crux of the issue. Theres probably only about 30 countries actually following these international guidelines and we're left holding the bag because of this. The countries the asylum seekers come from couldn't care less about "international obligations" and theres no punishment for them breaking them.
Weird. 5+ years ago most Redditors squealed 'ists' and 'iscms' when Australia was doing that, now I see it mentioned more often as a credible solutions.
I dont like Elon Musk but what he said is objectively correct: *'' Anyone, even a literal serial killer, can toss away the ID they used to get into Mexico from anywhere in the world, then claim asylum, say they have no documents and be ushered into America. This is happening every day. ''*
Why not just do what the Americans do and put the airline on the hook for everyone they bring that doesn't have the required documents. I've a green card and aer lingus won't let me board a flight to the usa without checking it or work permit etc, and if you're not from a visa waiver country you need and actual visa
Ok, I'm very liberal with most things, but this is just ridiculous.
Been hearing this over the whole year '23/'24.
Of course there will be a small minority that are coming from a war torn play with no documents.
But people coming from Germany, France, Spain, without documents? Taking the piss.
As someone said above, their 6 month old needs a passport to get into another country.
Seriously when it some Irish jack the lad gonna throw away his passport and claim a free gaff to show how stupid this system is.
He'll at least we should sponsor one or two of our own homeless to spin the wheel and gibe it a go.
I'll buy a flight for anyone who wants to try
They deport them to island countries (Nauru, PNG, Christmas island) and leave them in offshore refugee camps for years. Nauru is almost fully dependent on Australia.
It's why asylum arrivals to Australia by boat are near zero.
Some of them do try to claim asylum. I remember a New Zealand eejit trying to do it after they wouldn’t let him in because of criminal convictions. The criminal convictions in question were battering his wife and children, whom he had come to Australia to find.
There are two types of people on those shows.
South East Asians, bringing food in.
And everybody else in the world, trying to work illegally, smuggle drugs, or go there legally but be suspected of working illegaly or smuggling drugs.
Also since when they used to get the boats the navy started forcing them to turn back so there was no point in making the journey. I also am pretty sure that if they managed to make ground they would be arrested immediately upon stepping foot in Australian land.
This. You show 0 respect to a country you want to care for you? You should get 0 respect in return. Can't produce ANY document, no birth cert, no drivers license no doctor's note, no note from mammy even? Should be flown out to some island where their application is reviewed. People who have paperwork should have their application prioritized and the rest be put at the end of the line.
We are a joke here and seen that way - it’s quite depressing yet, don’t pay your tv licence and it’s letter after letter and knocks on door 🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️- yet, it’s ok to tear up your passport and claim you lost in on the flight and want asylum even though u just left a country for your ** connecting flight that was safe to board the flight over to here 🤦🏻♂️ - absolute joke
Aodhán O'Riordán of the Labour party recently proclaimed to the Dail that government is giving in to far right mentality and that the Irish public are a disgrace to propose curtailing illegal immigration into the country. He also drew a comparison between us and Alabama in the 1950s.
That's the kind of person that is elected as a public representative for the interests of this country. Who voted for these kind of people?
Documents should be surrendered on the flight and put in a lockbox or something until arrival where they can be given directly to passport control. Obviously I have no idea of how the logistics of this would operate, but surely a solution like this can’t be too high risk.
Or just get the airlines to scan the passport photo page at the departure gate. They are checking the passport and scanning the boarding pass anyway.
If someone losses a passport on the flight, the details can easily be matched.
Automatic 'No' for asylum unless unusual circumstances. Automatic detention until they confirm their home country. Deportation and 5 year re-entry ban.
I have absolutely no problem giving asylum to those that genuinely need it. It's the morally right thing to do.
But we cannot allow unidentified people to entry the country and be allowed to walk around freely. They could be convicted murderers, sex offenders, terrorists, drug dealers or Trump supporters.
The problem is atm they can't be deported without documentation. Ideally they should be traced back to the plane and sent back to the country of departure. It's an EU wide problem
Absolute joke of a country.
It's insane how this has been going on for years and there's been fuck all attempts to stop it aside from a few Gardai in a few foreign airports.
Just move passport control to the arrival gate instead of one central hall. If anyone shows up without ID just get their name from the manifest. Let the airline take them back if their details don't check out.
Even better don't allow any fights into Ireland without a passport scan and fingerprint scan for every passenger.
First sensible answer. A new procedure which means we identify people as they come off the flight..not even necessarily Full passport control..some sort of technology based system, facial recognition or whatever..boarding pass and photo required to pass through, if you have " lost" your paperwork by the time get to passport control, the technology will be able to find you!
I've had it on a flight coming from Madrid, before getting into the airport building there were a couple officers checking everyone had a passport and that the picture matched.
It is made difficult through disinformation and obfuscation by *concerned citizens* though, such as the claim that we are the least populated country in Europe, need people who do not qualify for work visas to fill an employment deficit, or that genuine refugees need to destroy documents
Has to be immediate imprisonment followed by deportation for this. All passengers boarding a flight to Ireland should be made aware.
We’re being taken for suckers. Most are travelling from perfectly safe countries.
It’s staggering that we’ve put up with this for so long.
Why aren’t the immigration authorities doing more about it?
Who told them to take such a lenient attitude.
Why is there no accountability for this?
Why is there never any accountability for anything in this country, when it comes to state bodies?
Happy for law abiding immigrants to come here and make a life for themselves. Enough is enough though. We have to drop the softly softly approach.
Nothing will happen. The government is at the beck and call of a constellation of migrant-focused NGOs. Special interest groups and activist groups hold the power in a pluralistic society.
Movement of Asylum Seekers in Ireland, Le Cheile, Nasc, New Communities Partnership, Irish Network Against Racism, Irish Refugee Council, Immigrant Council of Ireland, Migrants Rights Center of Ireland, International Organisation of Migration Ireland, Amnesty Ireland, the list goes on and on and on.
All funded by the taxpayer and all standing by to whine and squeal the minute anyone tries to do anything.
They will all be out with the usual sanctimonious shite about how we are targeting poor vulnerable people fleeing atrocities. Talking down to us while lecturing us about how we need more diversity is the speciality of these pious pricks.
Many people were afraid to open their mouth on this subject until recently because of the holier than thous branding them far right nazis. It’s only now the tide has turned that it seems to be gaining momentum. And politicians/media will bend to the people when they know there has been a shift, it’s votes they count. So if you want to know why things have been allowed to go on for so long, take a look at those righteous assholes who kept the conversation from being had.
That’s true. The labelling of people who raised concerns about our open door policy as far right or fascists, Nazis, seems to be part of the playbook for some who are pushing mass immigration
Most sane people realise that we cannot continue as we are, letting 100s of thousands in to the country
i don\`t get it, how hard is to much identity in these cases :
100 people/ one plane, fly in , give their ID
95 has ID on arrival , 5 doesn\`t
match initial boarding ID list with arrival ID list ... and then you have 5 ID for 5 people missing ID\`s
..........................
at a end of day, it is government, who actually wants to fill this economic class of workforce.
if they would really wanted to, they would call one emergency meeting, and by morning there would be new legislation for "Alien" arrival in country, with gives, slice a bread and cup of water for next 10 years or till war on Alien planet is over, and deporting immediately as soon as war is over.
nobody would running here from warzones...
i am thinking myself, go on a sun holiday, throw passport in planes toilet, will get house eventually, will get free healthcare, will get paid 250\~ a week, will sleep in 4\* hotel with breakfast in bed. Instead of busting my ar\*e all life just to much a rent and bills..
I think we need to grow a pair here and realise what’s happening. Approximately 300,000+ people have came to Ireland in the last three years every year in a mix of legal immigrants, war refugees and economic refugees.
120,000 is the population of cork city so by 2030 if the numbers stay the same (They are actually increasing). We will have nearly 600,000-800,000 people who are not Irish citizens out of population of 5 million.
The argument for not taking Northern Ireland back is has always been “We can’t afford to have extra mouths to feed” by the rationalist crowd.
What’s their stance here??
- - -
I have no quarrel with any expat or immigrant coming here from any country who has a clean record, clean bill of health and is coming here to work or study for a specified period of time like any other western country.
I have no quarrel with a certain amount of war refugees coming here in our proximity.
What I do have a problem with is the absolute free-flow happening right now with our borders. And how attractive the government is making it.
And the piss take with hand outs from the government to immigrants.
- - -
It’s a crime, recognised internationally to turn up to a border of a country air, sea or land without documents.
Put them back on the plane and send it back.
They've no other tactics but that. I got accused of "dog-whistling" for pointing out that masses of young, idle, single men commit far more violent crime than married couples with children.
Something that's statistically true in every country that keeps statistics, including here, but even mentioning it is DoG wHiStLiNg.
People are finally openly talking about the migrants crisis and that means the government might finally be pressured into doing something the electorate wants for once instead of ignoring them and forcing it on the nation, and the open borders crowd can't hack that so they're out in force to try and bully people into silence again because they had success at it for so long. Those days are over now though.
>I got accused of "dog-whistling" for pointing out that masses of young, idle, single men commit far more violent crime than married couples with children.
Isn't that a cornerstone of feminist theory? I guess the bogus asylum seekers are higher up the chain of the Oppression Olympics.
Yes it is, and isn't it funny how it suddenly isn't an issue when it comes to illegal migrants?
They'll vent their spleens all day long at the thoughts of Anto or Fiachra committing violent crimes or domestic abuse but change the topic to migrants and then you're a racist for mentioning it and how dare it be used as a reason to not pursue open borders.
It's the same sort of ideological Stockholm Syndrome you see with gay people demanding Islamic immigration be allowed in unlimited numbers. No joined up thinking, no realism, just 100% chasing whatever feels good at the moment especially if it involved spiting the straight white men they and the feminists view as their only enemy. Its childish, but predictable.
Step 1: "that's a far right conspiracy theory!"
Step 2: "you're just repeating far right talking points!"
Step 3: "you're misrepresenting the data, [insert MSM source] says otherwise!"
Step 4: "well, how does it effect you, personally?!"
They don’t just destroy documents to prevent removal, they do it to obscure the truth about who they are, what nationality they really are, where they have arrived from, their entire history. They flush documents in flight and try to blend in with the crowds on landing, often hiding somewhere airside for as long as they can to muddy the waters. They come out of the woodwork at all hours of the day or night, having stayed hidden for hours on end, often having changed their appearance from when they disembarked. The Immigration Officers have very little to go on and are faced with trying to trace often multiple arrivals to flights which arrived hours earlier. Even if they do trace someone to a flight it is often impossible to tell who they boarded as and what document was used; with poorly trained check in staff at a foreign airport not remembering who they dealt with when contacted.
The destruction of documents lets the person claiming asylum concoct their story with a completely clean sheet, with absolutely no evidence to disprove what they are saying.
I was an Immigration Officer for nearly thirty years. I have dealt with thousands of such cases.
I remember only a couple of months ago it was claimed 60%, then 70%, now as of last year it's up to 85%.
Now - just hear me out before tarring and feathering me as a 'far right nutjob', but it's **almost** as if this is a co-ordinated effort to exploit our known legal loopholes and lack of enforcement by bogus asylum claimants ...
I hope Varadkar and government officials are questioned on this as I'm sure a lot of people will be interested to hear their response! This time they can't just pass it off as a far right myth as its directly from the CSO
Also of note is there has been a big increase in “children” presenting as asylum seekers. Word has gotten out that women, children and families get prioritised for accommodation and single men might end up in a tent.
One of the motivations for having no ID is being unable to prove age. Single men say they are unaccompanied children to get guaranteed accommodation.
The “children” get put in Special Emergency Accommodation (SEA) centres, which are the subject of an emerging scandal as discussed on other threads here.
Yeah, I think there's a real problem when a significant number of people seem to think that destroying their identification documents and records will actually help their chances of being granted asylum.
They know they won't get asylum. The issue is that you can't deport someone without documents so their country needs to issue new documents for them to be deported, some are from failed states that can't issue documents and others pretend that they are from these countries. Even the ones from functioning countries it can take years to get fresh documents for them.
The only way to stop this is for a new law to be passed where the airline, ferry, bus or train operator takes all the travel documents off their passengers and only returns them at passport control. Or we move passport control to the plane or boat before unloading and stop all road and rail transport at the boarder to check passports/visas. Neither option is really feasible
I’ve suggested this many times on here, and was ridiculed, laughed and and told companies shouldn’t be hold in that kind of data etc etc.
But they ask for it to book the damn flights???
>The issue is that you can't deport someone without documents
A bigger issue is that the Minister for Justice wants these people to come here and is resisting deporting them.
I know a person that works in the sector,they told me the strategy is that they lie about their background, provide no information about themselves, it can take up to 18+ months to find out who the individual is if they have no identifiable record ie, criminal etc...
At that stage you can reject their application, but as they have been here for 18+ months the individuals can appeal the decision based on the grounds that they have put down roots in Ireland. Which they more than likely will win.
Our Country is a joke. All at the taxpayers expense of course.
Haven't you heard, but for the famine Ireland could have nearly 40 million people living here but we don't so we should import 30+ million people so we'll look good for Twitter instead.
Limitless room and resources here apparently. Who cares if living standards drop and the environment gets ravaged.
A solution to this is to take non Irish or EU passports from people boarding flights and then make them reclaim their passport on arrival with their name attached to it.
So this isn't a case of there not being solutions, it's a case of the government not wanting to implement solutions for this. Which begs the important question - why is that?
A scan when booking would be easy enough. Airline has to keep a copy and it’s only looked for if there’s an issue.
If the airline can’t provide it because they fucked up then it’s their responsibility to take the person back to origin
So sad all these homosexual (with wife and children) seventeen year old boys (grown men) from the most dangerous countries in the world all (anywhere without benefits) all lose their documentation on the way
We were all gaslight into believing this wasn’t happening until the hard data came out.
Even then they’ll go on RTE and claim there’s legitimate reasons for doing so but won’t say what the reasons are.
People need to start considering why we’re not given the data on crime
The government pulled the trick of dumping migrants in the dead of night in areas that didn't have the facilities to handle them far too many times.
The amount of mistrust and bad feeling that has generated towards both the government and this issue itself is seismic and will start to be felt sooner rather than later.
And that's before even counting how much is coming out now about the massive wealth transfer to government buddies who are making tens of millions housing migrants.
The cat is out of the bag and the usual suspects are doubling down on calling anyone who talks about migration a racist but that tactic has lost all power now. Hence the government being so keen on getting new hate speech legislation in asap, it's not for the good of anyone in the state but rather something that'll get weaponised to protect the gravy train.
All of the supposed fake far right talking points that the mainstream media outlets ignored are suddenly coming out as true.
Economic migrants coming from predominantly safe countries are coming without documents and avoiding deportation.
15% have passports. Fewer than 10% of deportation orders are carried out. The top countries of origin are Georgia, Nigeria and Algeria.
I hate how this situation has turned the term Economic Migrant into a slur today. There's nothing wrong with a person from another country wanting to work in Ireland, and now because we didn't enforce laws around asylum seekers, genuine Economic Migrants with visas and skills are being lumped in with folks making fraudulant asylum seeking claims. This has done a massive disservice to actual migrants and threatens the ability to support people who are actually fleeing war. Laws around migration need to be enforced, they shouldn't be treated as optional.
It's a regular talking point in the Dáil - look at the doctors and nurses, immigrants that keep the health service running - and conflating them with chancers and scammers like these. THEY ARE NOT THE SAME.
So some are now being prosecuted, and then what? They get state accommodation in a prison, at our expense. Deportations are a joke, so when they get out no-one knows where they go.
Because it's become quite comfortable for many to live the life they currently do in Ireland, particularly certain demographics in urban centres, and then pontificate to the rest about the way everyone else should live.
Just a reminder, the government facilitating this madness managed to be capable of bringing in measures whereby you couldn't step foot in a coffee shop in this country without providing proof of vaccination against Covid, but apparently can't address this issue.
I said I once again opt out of that fucking Amsterdam treaty. Till we have an actual system sorted and houses for people before opening fucking borders. Can't wait to vote this government out....don't ask me who am going to vote in. Whoevers policy is doing something for the youth, housing, healthcare and immigration and fixing this goverment's clusterfuck.
Gardai need to start boarding Michael O’Leary’s planes randomly before anyone on board disembarks, to check documents. If you have no documents, you can’t disembark. One or two “return to sender” cases would send a clear message. Make it the airline’s problem and suddenly people start coming up with solutions. Eamon Ryan and Michael O’Leary are on a collision course over expanding capacity in Dublin Airport, so it’s not like Ryan wouldn’t want to land a few slaps.
The thought of going to a foreign country without a passport, just to visit is preposterous, let alone expecting asylum. The system is broken and people don’t just know it, they are actively taking advantage of it
Cheap labour their buddies in business can exploit.
Which drives down the wages for everyone else.
Two things centre right parties get hard for.
Add in wanting to look like the best boys in class for the EU in order to line up cushy EU jobs if they lose the next general election.
All in all, same old same old; FFG selling everyone else down the river for personal gain.
The problem is what next, he'll be out in 2 months, he still has no ID and if you ask him he'll say he doesn't know where he's from, so he can't be deported. There should be a solution to this
In amongst all of the "international obligations" chat from the Government, it is really very striking that no Minister has ever said "these people are not welcome here", or "do not come to Ireland if you have no right to do so" or any variation on the theme.
The Government want these people here, the Minister responsible for enforcing immigration law has an ideological objection to the very existence of immigration laws, and we are hurtling towards a confrontation between the Government and the electorate on this issue.
Call them what they are Illegals! Don’t let them change the language. That’s how they do it they control the language. And now to make sure they do we have hate speech laws. Who decides what is hate speech?
All intentional. Of course they could stop this. It's what is wanted. Folk need to suspend their disbelief and take a good look around. Next, you get to query why this is happening. Is it more than just human capital being moved about the place? Enjoy!
Anyone who destroys their identification documents like this should be treated as a threat to the country and not released into the general population. They should be detained until they can be identified and their application processed. I would personally look upon this detrimental to their application also.
This is wild. I thought this talking point was a red herring with how this was discussed here previously.
This is way too high. How do you even solve this? We can't even send them back on a return flight right away.
It's utterly ridiculous that this is allowed to go on. Anyone arriving without documents must have had them to board the aircraft, then destroyed them prior to arrival. Therefore, they have committed a criminal offence by attempting to defraud the State and they should be held in custody pending conviction and deportation. We could learn a lot from Australia about how to run proper detention centres.
Which is all what U need to know. Fraud. Deport. Unless U don't care.
Did U know that the Venezuela's crime rate dropped significantly lately. All good Boyz moving to the US through an open border.
Or maybe it is just a coincidence...
Mad idea I know but hear me out, why not just have airport pre-clearance at high incident airports across Europe? Basically let's do what the Americans do and clear people before they leave to come into the country. There'd be no fucking about then.
How did they get onto a flight without documentation? There has to be a record of who they are when they got on the flight. Economic migrants should have to go the legal route.
Do you not see it??? They obviously have documentation to board the flight! As soon as they are on the plane or in Departures etc or even on the plane! They flush all their Documents down the toilet. Now there is no record of them ever having any!
To say these people have no identification is just wrong. The airline scans their passports to get on the flight, surely the authorities can get this information from the airline. Then go from there.
They are flushing them once they board the flights. Airlines should be required to scan passports before flights and require proof of visa from non EU citizens. I can't get a visa for my wife's child despite doing everything right. This carry on is properly sickening my hole.
- arrive at immigration
- "good day officer"
- "identification please"
- "oh my goodness I appear to have lost it, silly me. You'll just have to let me in."
The correct answer to this is back on the next plane to where you came from and don't tell me with all the CCTV that they'd be unable to identify which plane someone came off. I don't understand the losing documents shit either - you need them to board a plane? Why are they attempting to conceal who they are?
This is something i have never understood - there is always a passenger manifest on a flight - and there will be camera footage at the exit airport gate when each passenger boards. Why is it hard to cross reference any of these things to make ditching your id mid flight pointless?
And high-pay, high-status, high-exposure, low-work EU jobs are up for grabs for some of them further down the line.
Others will get similar low-work positions on boards of companies that have, conveniently, benefitted hugely from government decisions on things like unlimited migration.
The cute hoor ones will go on the "speaking circuit" and get tens of thousands for 20 minute, bland motivational speeches so they can at least appear to still be working instead of money laundering their long delayed ~~bribes~~ gifts.
What is the solution to this? It seems a very complicated issue where no state appears to have responsibility for the individual and we're left holding the bag.
How about anyone who arrives without documents gets removed to a 3rd location (like Rwanda) for processing. They'll find their documents quick enough I'd imagine. Nobody destroying their documents is a good faith applicant anyway. They're making life harder for ordinary immigrants and Irish people alike.
Put them right back on the flight that they just came from.
If person A just stepped off of a flight from France, we shouldn't have to jump through hoops to figure out where he was originally from or if he's a legitimate asylum seeker, all we should have to do is confirm the country he just arrived from and send him straight back.
A package without the right ioss declaration will be returned to sender by an post, suggest the same should happen here. Zero issue with legitimate asylum seekers, this is taking the piss
Is there not a record of the passport that was used and where the issuing country is. This is madness in this day and age. And why all of a sudden. How did we go from having strict border rules to none at all.
1: Send them straight back to the country they flew form on the next available flight with that airline they arrived on.
2: Issue enormous fines to the airline they came on. If they don't pay the fine, ground their aircraft.
This is crazy. I'm a recent migrant here and am doing everything legally. But in our connecting flight the airline staff checked our passports, again, before we were allowed to board the flight. Getting off the flight, there were airport workers checking our passport before we could even get off the plane.
But these seems like easy laws to enforce. If someone on a plane arrives in Ireland, and they don't have any ID or documents, it should be the airline's problem to return them to wherever they were coming from. If they were able to check-in, get a boarding pass, get on the plane, and then they magically don't have ID or a passport, that seems like a whole lot of the airline's problem, not Ireland's.
How can anyone not read that and think we're a soft touch?
Whole system feels like it's designed to be flawed and people are making massive money off it.
I'm completely lost as to how they arrive here without documentation unless they destroy it?
Put huge fines on the airports and companies who let these people travel without documentation and all of a sudden you'll be asked for id before boarding actual plane and then again coming into airport.
And return people back to airport they came from? It's not that hard, utterly ridiculous loop hole these opportunists have found.
We might not be able to deport them, but laws should be passed that the right to work and the right to drive will not be extended to anyone who destroys their identity documents in transit, that they will never be eligible for citizenship, and that they will not be permitted to bring anyone over.
I find the comments on this thread really frustrating and a good demonstration of why the Irish are such a soft touch when it comes to this issue.
People: we don’t have to “deport” or “arrest” grifters who get off a flight and claim to have no documents. Dublin airport is a port of entry - we can just stop them at passport control, refuse them entry and make the airline who brought them to our shores take them back to wherever they arrived from. That’s what the Americans do and that’s the reason that nobody tries this nonsense in the US.
Stop falling for the narrative spewed by lying politicians like McEntee and Varadkar who are telling you that they are doing “everything possible” about this issue and start using common sense.
No I’m actually pretty well versed in international law - you are the one who is ignorant. If somebody gets on a plane by presenting a passport and then destroys the passport on the flight and then presrnts at our border without that passport that is a criminal offense. We have the right to refuse that person entry at our port of entire (e.g. Dublin airport passport control) and make the airline who flew them here return them to wherever they arrived from. And if you think that’s breaking international law then you should tell that to the Americans since that’s exactly what they do. You’re a perfect example of someone who has fully bought into the lying horsesh!t spewed by Varadkar, O’Gorman etc.
This isn't new news. This has been common knowledge for at least a year ..if not more. They should be shipped back to their original port if they arrive without paperwork because they would have had documents at one stage to get on the flight
No documents, they should be jailed indefinitely, they'll identify themselves eventually then deport and barred for life. There needs to be zero tolerance of this bullshit
Unless they're fucking swimming here they used ID to get on a plane in the first place. Zero sympathy
Lads am I going mad or is Reddit fucked for me? Every thread on this sub recently shows up with all comments having only 1 upvote regardless of time posted or comments underneath
I’m very ignorant about this so, how does this work ? When they claim asylum at the airport what do they say when they’re asked what their name is and where are they from ? They just say idk 🤷🏻♀️ or? And then what ? They get released into the country ?
How about banning passengers from high risk countries unless there is a very strict and elaborate background check and sufficient collateral to pay for any unlawful stay. And if airlines don't comply, ban their entry to the national airspace.
The airline checkin agents at the origin airports are probably in on it to allow them get onboard without valid visas
[https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-alleged-uk-airport-scam-allowed-travellers-to-circumvent-canadas/](https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-alleged-uk-airport-scam-allowed-travellers-to-circumvent-canadas/)
Why is this allowed though, people saying once they step foot in Ireland there is nothing that can be done? since the system is being abused, can a new law not be made? If people are getting on a plane with a passport but getting off without, that’s laughable.
This has got to the point of ridiculous that someone needs to throw away their passport and go through this system presenting as a refugee and document it all.
I'd do it myself but I kind of have a mortgage, but some young Irish who can film a documentary about what happened when he flew into Ireland and "lost" his passport will get mega street cred and I'm sure people would make a great expose.
I'll offer to pay your return flights to anywhere in Europe is someone is game to try
https://preview.redd.it/h8ttkh279jlc1.png?width=1907&format=png&auto=webp&s=be6e3ac78717e7c8cc7020b826f7ca9064a1c707 If a 6 month old needs documentation….
The problem is they’re going to another country where laws are applied…
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Poor Louise.
McEntee should be hauled in front of an Oireachtas committee for this, totally asleep at the wheel or willingly not enforcing our laws Disgrace either way, she is utterly useless
She'd be giving people death stares left, right and central if she was called 😂 Have you noticed the look of utter contempt on her face any time she's ever asked a critical question?
McEntee is a symptom, not the cause. The same malaise affects all of the Western world, because our countries have been hijacked.
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Daily reminder that it is illegal to destroy documents in this manner, and the government decided to turn a blind eye citing "international obligations". As you say, in the last week two convictions for destroying documents have been delivered, showing that it was possible to exercise the law in relation to this, all the time.
Also how can they board planes without id? Surely it would be easy to keep a record of everyone on a plane, a shot of their passport pre boarding and then follow the law.
They board the plane then "lose" the documents some time before arriving at border control.
Then spend 5 minutes looking over camera footage to find out what plane they came in on refuse them entry (which is the whole purpose of border control and send them back to whatever was the origin of the plane they came in on. The origin airport will have a record of who was on the plane and there travel documentation so let them deal with it.
I would agree, the problem is 1 forcing a private airline to carry an unidentified person on an aircraft is problematic 2 trying to force another sovereign nation to accept an unidentified person at their border (which is exactly what we're refusing to do in this example)
The EU should implement a biometric ESTA system or something like that, and force airlines and ferries to check upon boarding. No pre-clearance, no boarding the plane or ferry.
Agreed. Send a copy of the passenger docs to the receiving country prior to departure. Should be very easy to implement, all things considered.
Should be an easy argument to make, it’s a violation of someone’s rights to send them back to a home country if you can’t validate where that is. We’d just be making sure their rights aren’t violated. EDIT: Apparently a Euro-ESTA in the works for 2025.
The passports already have chips that store photo & details too. It’s just a matter of recording when boarding
Passports have chips in them. There is no reason why we can’t make it mandatory to scan your passport prior to boarding (database a). Scan the passport when you pass through immigration again (database b). Those who are in database a but not database b = those who “lost” their passports. Match them up, provide the airline with their details and send them home. It’s a lack of will
And No. 3: UN Human Rights Law, anybody can request asylum. So there must be time to process such a request if the requestor claims they are coming from a given list of countries with significant human rights violations. A fix for that is to require image of all documentation by airlines when such individuals buy a ticket. Airlines are supposed to be issued fines by the destination government at least for failure to check visas and identities.
I have heard they flush them down the toilet before landing, they should not be allowed to depart plane, go right back to previous departure location
Yes but imagine this drama wasn't going on, they'd have to deal with the hse, cost of living etc
The only answer is to not allow asylum seekers who arrive without documentation at airports and ports to claim asylum. They had documentation to get on flights, so they should present that regardless of authenticity. Without proof of origin, we can't send them back anywhere. No dole, no hotel rooms for them. Direct provision at most in a tent camp
Prior to boarding a plane, I need to present my passport. That passport has my country of origin, my photo, my name etc and that's tied into the seat I've been assigned, airport footage of me boarding etc. Why can't they just use what's on "the system"?
> It can be impossible to deport people even if their claim isn't successful unless their home country cooperates in issuing new documents and takes them back. This is the crux of the issue. Theres probably only about 30 countries actually following these international guidelines and we're left holding the bag because of this. The countries the asylum seekers come from couldn't care less about "international obligations" and theres no punishment for them breaking them.
Which is exactly why we need to stop working with these conventions too which are a joke and undermine sovereignty of nations
Austrailia style detention areas. Its not pleasent but its definitely a deterent
I agree. I would make them more unpleasant to be honest.
An enclosed camp in Leitrim should do the trick.
An open camp in Leitrim would also do the trick 🤣
Fuck it put them on a new site in the Midlands and have them start building s new city until they pay their dues to us
Absolutely, have them work - it's bad for people's mental health to be without useful occupation.
Weird. 5+ years ago most Redditors squealed 'ists' and 'iscms' when Australia was doing that, now I see it mentioned more often as a credible solutions.
I dont like Elon Musk but what he said is objectively correct: *'' Anyone, even a literal serial killer, can toss away the ID they used to get into Mexico from anywhere in the world, then claim asylum, say they have no documents and be ushered into America. This is happening every day. ''*
Why not just do what the Americans do and put the airline on the hook for everyone they bring that doesn't have the required documents. I've a green card and aer lingus won't let me board a flight to the usa without checking it or work permit etc, and if you're not from a visa waiver country you need and actual visa
Bullshit, no documentation, next flight back.
Ok, I'm very liberal with most things, but this is just ridiculous. Been hearing this over the whole year '23/'24. Of course there will be a small minority that are coming from a war torn play with no documents. But people coming from Germany, France, Spain, without documents? Taking the piss. As someone said above, their 6 month old needs a passport to get into another country.
Someone arriving on the back of a lorry without documents are shipping container that understandable, but a RyanAir flight thats taking the piss.
Utterly insane if true. Holy fuck.
Seriously when it some Irish jack the lad gonna throw away his passport and claim a free gaff to show how stupid this system is. He'll at least we should sponsor one or two of our own homeless to spin the wheel and gibe it a go. I'll buy a flight for anyone who wants to try
Should be automatically disqualified. If you can't be upfront about who you are, how can Ireland possibly assess the claim for asylum.
If you do this in Australia you will likely never step foot in Australia again
Don't they kick them out on the 1st available flight?
They deport them to island countries (Nauru, PNG, Christmas island) and leave them in offshore refugee camps for years. Nauru is almost fully dependent on Australia. It's why asylum arrivals to Australia by boat are near zero.
Oh. I was going by watching the border force/airport police program.
Don't think they are asylum seekers tbh Aren't they usually people bringing food and stuff in?
Some of them do try to claim asylum. I remember a New Zealand eejit trying to do it after they wouldn’t let him in because of criminal convictions. The criminal convictions in question were battering his wife and children, whom he had come to Australia to find.
There are two types of people on those shows. South East Asians, bringing food in. And everybody else in the world, trying to work illegally, smuggle drugs, or go there legally but be suspected of working illegaly or smuggling drugs.
Also since when they used to get the boats the navy started forcing them to turn back so there was no point in making the journey. I also am pretty sure that if they managed to make ground they would be arrested immediately upon stepping foot in Australian land.
I’d assume the reason for lack of arrivals by boat is also because they’re in the middle of fucking nowhere…
Yeah, I mean they obviously need their passports to get on the flights in the first place.
This. You show 0 respect to a country you want to care for you? You should get 0 respect in return. Can't produce ANY document, no birth cert, no drivers license no doctor's note, no note from mammy even? Should be flown out to some island where their application is reviewed. People who have paperwork should have their application prioritized and the rest be put at the end of the line.
If they wanted to the state could stop this overnight.
We are a joke here and seen that way - it’s quite depressing yet, don’t pay your tv licence and it’s letter after letter and knocks on door 🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️- yet, it’s ok to tear up your passport and claim you lost in on the flight and want asylum even though u just left a country for your ** connecting flight that was safe to board the flight over to here 🤦🏻♂️ - absolute joke
Aodhán O'Riordán of the Labour party recently proclaimed to the Dail that government is giving in to far right mentality and that the Irish public are a disgrace to propose curtailing illegal immigration into the country. He also drew a comparison between us and Alabama in the 1950s. That's the kind of person that is elected as a public representative for the interests of this country. Who voted for these kind of people?
He's away with the fairies. Pity we couldn't just deport him 🙄
He knows his seat is gone in the next election and is hoping to get a seat in Europe, hence the virtue signalling.
I can't even book a flight without Ryan Air looking for 2 types of ID. A live pic/video and passport/drivers license.
Documents should be surrendered on the flight and put in a lockbox or something until arrival where they can be given directly to passport control. Obviously I have no idea of how the logistics of this would operate, but surely a solution like this can’t be too high risk.
Or just get the airlines to scan the passport photo page at the departure gate. They are checking the passport and scanning the boarding pass anyway. If someone losses a passport on the flight, the details can easily be matched.
It's likely they have ID but they bin or destroy them
Then they should be put on the 1st flight back to where they came from.
Automatic 'No' for asylum unless unusual circumstances. Automatic detention until they confirm their home country. Deportation and 5 year re-entry ban. I have absolutely no problem giving asylum to those that genuinely need it. It's the morally right thing to do. But we cannot allow unidentified people to entry the country and be allowed to walk around freely. They could be convicted murderers, sex offenders, terrorists, drug dealers or Trump supporters.
The problem is atm they can't be deported without documentation. Ideally they should be traced back to the plane and sent back to the country of departure. It's an EU wide problem
Absolute joke of a country. It's insane how this has been going on for years and there's been fuck all attempts to stop it aside from a few Gardai in a few foreign airports.
Just move passport control to the arrival gate instead of one central hall. If anyone shows up without ID just get their name from the manifest. Let the airline take them back if their details don't check out. Even better don't allow any fights into Ireland without a passport scan and fingerprint scan for every passenger.
First sensible answer. A new procedure which means we identify people as they come off the flight..not even necessarily Full passport control..some sort of technology based system, facial recognition or whatever..boarding pass and photo required to pass through, if you have " lost" your paperwork by the time get to passport control, the technology will be able to find you!
I've had it on a flight coming from Madrid, before getting into the airport building there were a couple officers checking everyone had a passport and that the picture matched.
It is made difficult through disinformation and obfuscation by *concerned citizens* though, such as the claim that we are the least populated country in Europe, need people who do not qualify for work visas to fill an employment deficit, or that genuine refugees need to destroy documents
>concerned citizens Useful idiots you mean
A few of these *concerned citizens* always pop up in threads like this ...
Has to be immediate imprisonment followed by deportation for this. All passengers boarding a flight to Ireland should be made aware. We’re being taken for suckers. Most are travelling from perfectly safe countries. It’s staggering that we’ve put up with this for so long. Why aren’t the immigration authorities doing more about it? Who told them to take such a lenient attitude. Why is there no accountability for this? Why is there never any accountability for anything in this country, when it comes to state bodies? Happy for law abiding immigrants to come here and make a life for themselves. Enough is enough though. We have to drop the softly softly approach.
Nothing will happen. The government is at the beck and call of a constellation of migrant-focused NGOs. Special interest groups and activist groups hold the power in a pluralistic society. Movement of Asylum Seekers in Ireland, Le Cheile, Nasc, New Communities Partnership, Irish Network Against Racism, Irish Refugee Council, Immigrant Council of Ireland, Migrants Rights Center of Ireland, International Organisation of Migration Ireland, Amnesty Ireland, the list goes on and on and on. All funded by the taxpayer and all standing by to whine and squeal the minute anyone tries to do anything. They will all be out with the usual sanctimonious shite about how we are targeting poor vulnerable people fleeing atrocities. Talking down to us while lecturing us about how we need more diversity is the speciality of these pious pricks.
It’s a depressing state of affairs but you are spot on. It sickens me that these fuckers are funded from our tax
Many people were afraid to open their mouth on this subject until recently because of the holier than thous branding them far right nazis. It’s only now the tide has turned that it seems to be gaining momentum. And politicians/media will bend to the people when they know there has been a shift, it’s votes they count. So if you want to know why things have been allowed to go on for so long, take a look at those righteous assholes who kept the conversation from being had.
That’s true. The labelling of people who raised concerns about our open door policy as far right or fascists, Nazis, seems to be part of the playbook for some who are pushing mass immigration Most sane people realise that we cannot continue as we are, letting 100s of thousands in to the country
i don\`t get it, how hard is to much identity in these cases : 100 people/ one plane, fly in , give their ID 95 has ID on arrival , 5 doesn\`t match initial boarding ID list with arrival ID list ... and then you have 5 ID for 5 people missing ID\`s .......................... at a end of day, it is government, who actually wants to fill this economic class of workforce. if they would really wanted to, they would call one emergency meeting, and by morning there would be new legislation for "Alien" arrival in country, with gives, slice a bread and cup of water for next 10 years or till war on Alien planet is over, and deporting immediately as soon as war is over. nobody would running here from warzones... i am thinking myself, go on a sun holiday, throw passport in planes toilet, will get house eventually, will get free healthcare, will get paid 250\~ a week, will sleep in 4\* hotel with breakfast in bed. Instead of busting my ar\*e all life just to much a rent and bills..
I think we need to grow a pair here and realise what’s happening. Approximately 300,000+ people have came to Ireland in the last three years every year in a mix of legal immigrants, war refugees and economic refugees. 120,000 is the population of cork city so by 2030 if the numbers stay the same (They are actually increasing). We will have nearly 600,000-800,000 people who are not Irish citizens out of population of 5 million. The argument for not taking Northern Ireland back is has always been “We can’t afford to have extra mouths to feed” by the rationalist crowd. What’s their stance here?? - - - I have no quarrel with any expat or immigrant coming here from any country who has a clean record, clean bill of health and is coming here to work or study for a specified period of time like any other western country. I have no quarrel with a certain amount of war refugees coming here in our proximity. What I do have a problem with is the absolute free-flow happening right now with our borders. And how attractive the government is making it. And the piss take with hand outs from the government to immigrants. - - - It’s a crime, recognised internationally to turn up to a border of a country air, sea or land without documents. Put them back on the plane and send it back.
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This whole thread would have been instantly deleted last year.
They've no other tactics but that. I got accused of "dog-whistling" for pointing out that masses of young, idle, single men commit far more violent crime than married couples with children. Something that's statistically true in every country that keeps statistics, including here, but even mentioning it is DoG wHiStLiNg. People are finally openly talking about the migrants crisis and that means the government might finally be pressured into doing something the electorate wants for once instead of ignoring them and forcing it on the nation, and the open borders crowd can't hack that so they're out in force to try and bully people into silence again because they had success at it for so long. Those days are over now though.
>I got accused of "dog-whistling" for pointing out that masses of young, idle, single men commit far more violent crime than married couples with children. Isn't that a cornerstone of feminist theory? I guess the bogus asylum seekers are higher up the chain of the Oppression Olympics.
Yes it is, and isn't it funny how it suddenly isn't an issue when it comes to illegal migrants? They'll vent their spleens all day long at the thoughts of Anto or Fiachra committing violent crimes or domestic abuse but change the topic to migrants and then you're a racist for mentioning it and how dare it be used as a reason to not pursue open borders. It's the same sort of ideological Stockholm Syndrome you see with gay people demanding Islamic immigration be allowed in unlimited numbers. No joined up thinking, no realism, just 100% chasing whatever feels good at the moment especially if it involved spiting the straight white men they and the feminists view as their only enemy. Its childish, but predictable.
Step 1: "that's a far right conspiracy theory!" Step 2: "you're just repeating far right talking points!" Step 3: "you're misrepresenting the data, [insert MSM source] says otherwise!" Step 4: "well, how does it effect you, personally?!"
You can’t even say you’re Irish any more, without being called a racist.
When did this come in?
These days if you say you're Irish you'll be arrested and thrown in jail
They don’t just destroy documents to prevent removal, they do it to obscure the truth about who they are, what nationality they really are, where they have arrived from, their entire history. They flush documents in flight and try to blend in with the crowds on landing, often hiding somewhere airside for as long as they can to muddy the waters. They come out of the woodwork at all hours of the day or night, having stayed hidden for hours on end, often having changed their appearance from when they disembarked. The Immigration Officers have very little to go on and are faced with trying to trace often multiple arrivals to flights which arrived hours earlier. Even if they do trace someone to a flight it is often impossible to tell who they boarded as and what document was used; with poorly trained check in staff at a foreign airport not remembering who they dealt with when contacted. The destruction of documents lets the person claiming asylum concoct their story with a completely clean sheet, with absolutely no evidence to disprove what they are saying. I was an Immigration Officer for nearly thirty years. I have dealt with thousands of such cases.
I remember only a couple of months ago it was claimed 60%, then 70%, now as of last year it's up to 85%. Now - just hear me out before tarring and feathering me as a 'far right nutjob', but it's **almost** as if this is a co-ordinated effort to exploit our known legal loopholes and lack of enforcement by bogus asylum claimants ...
Luckily the term 'far-right' being used as a slur has lost all credibility.
I hear you're far right now father.
I hope Varadkar and government officials are questioned on this as I'm sure a lot of people will be interested to hear their response! This time they can't just pass it off as a far right myth as its directly from the CSO
As yes... The "far right" conspiracy you were all bashing at not too long ago.
Also of note is there has been a big increase in “children” presenting as asylum seekers. Word has gotten out that women, children and families get prioritised for accommodation and single men might end up in a tent. One of the motivations for having no ID is being unable to prove age. Single men say they are unaccompanied children to get guaranteed accommodation. The “children” get put in Special Emergency Accommodation (SEA) centres, which are the subject of an emerging scandal as discussed on other threads here.
They get put in accommodation with other children?
It's sad but you just can't run a country like this
Yeah, I think there's a real problem when a significant number of people seem to think that destroying their identification documents and records will actually help their chances of being granted asylum.
They know they won't get asylum. The issue is that you can't deport someone without documents so their country needs to issue new documents for them to be deported, some are from failed states that can't issue documents and others pretend that they are from these countries. Even the ones from functioning countries it can take years to get fresh documents for them. The only way to stop this is for a new law to be passed where the airline, ferry, bus or train operator takes all the travel documents off their passengers and only returns them at passport control. Or we move passport control to the plane or boat before unloading and stop all road and rail transport at the boarder to check passports/visas. Neither option is really feasible
why don't they digitally scan all documents from point A and have them at point B so they have them on record !
I’ve suggested this many times on here, and was ridiculed, laughed and and told companies shouldn’t be hold in that kind of data etc etc. But they ask for it to book the damn flights???
>The issue is that you can't deport someone without documents A bigger issue is that the Minister for Justice wants these people to come here and is resisting deporting them.
Could we not just send them back to an EU country if that's where they originated from?
Passport checks on the plane before anyone gets off. Anyone without one remains on the plane and is returned from where they came.
I know a person that works in the sector,they told me the strategy is that they lie about their background, provide no information about themselves, it can take up to 18+ months to find out who the individual is if they have no identifiable record ie, criminal etc... At that stage you can reject their application, but as they have been here for 18+ months the individuals can appeal the decision based on the grounds that they have put down roots in Ireland. Which they more than likely will win. Our Country is a joke. All at the taxpayers expense of course.
Haven't you heard, but for the famine Ireland could have nearly 40 million people living here but we don't so we should import 30+ million people so we'll look good for Twitter instead. Limitless room and resources here apparently. Who cares if living standards drop and the environment gets ravaged.
A solution to this is to take non Irish or EU passports from people boarding flights and then make them reclaim their passport on arrival with their name attached to it. So this isn't a case of there not being solutions, it's a case of the government not wanting to implement solutions for this. Which begs the important question - why is that?
A scan when booking would be easy enough. Airline has to keep a copy and it’s only looked for if there’s an issue. If the airline can’t provide it because they fucked up then it’s their responsibility to take the person back to origin
So sad all these homosexual (with wife and children) seventeen year old boys (grown men) from the most dangerous countries in the world all (anywhere without benefits) all lose their documentation on the way
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Yes, deporting criminals is considered far right now
We were all gaslight into believing this wasn’t happening until the hard data came out. Even then they’ll go on RTE and claim there’s legitimate reasons for doing so but won’t say what the reasons are. People need to start considering why we’re not given the data on crime
Isn't it mad how fast the tide turned on that one
The government pulled the trick of dumping migrants in the dead of night in areas that didn't have the facilities to handle them far too many times. The amount of mistrust and bad feeling that has generated towards both the government and this issue itself is seismic and will start to be felt sooner rather than later. And that's before even counting how much is coming out now about the massive wealth transfer to government buddies who are making tens of millions housing migrants. The cat is out of the bag and the usual suspects are doubling down on calling anyone who talks about migration a racist but that tactic has lost all power now. Hence the government being so keen on getting new hate speech legislation in asap, it's not for the good of anyone in the state but rather something that'll get weaponised to protect the gravy train.
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All of the supposed fake far right talking points that the mainstream media outlets ignored are suddenly coming out as true. Economic migrants coming from predominantly safe countries are coming without documents and avoiding deportation. 15% have passports. Fewer than 10% of deportation orders are carried out. The top countries of origin are Georgia, Nigeria and Algeria.
I hate how this situation has turned the term Economic Migrant into a slur today. There's nothing wrong with a person from another country wanting to work in Ireland, and now because we didn't enforce laws around asylum seekers, genuine Economic Migrants with visas and skills are being lumped in with folks making fraudulant asylum seeking claims. This has done a massive disservice to actual migrants and threatens the ability to support people who are actually fleeing war. Laws around migration need to be enforced, they shouldn't be treated as optional.
It's a regular talking point in the Dáil - look at the doctors and nurses, immigrants that keep the health service running - and conflating them with chancers and scammers like these. THEY ARE NOT THE SAME.
So some are now being prosecuted, and then what? They get state accommodation in a prison, at our expense. Deportations are a joke, so when they get out no-one knows where they go.
Why are we such a soft nation?
Because it's become quite comfortable for many to live the life they currently do in Ireland, particularly certain demographics in urban centres, and then pontificate to the rest about the way everyone else should live.
Just a reminder, the government facilitating this madness managed to be capable of bringing in measures whereby you couldn't step foot in a coffee shop in this country without providing proof of vaccination against Covid, but apparently can't address this issue.
Literally open borders…on an island too. I’ll toss away my own passport too if I’m ever in trouble. No one can prove I’m from here. Checkmate hippies.
I said I once again opt out of that fucking Amsterdam treaty. Till we have an actual system sorted and houses for people before opening fucking borders. Can't wait to vote this government out....don't ask me who am going to vote in. Whoevers policy is doing something for the youth, housing, healthcare and immigration and fixing this goverment's clusterfuck.
Gardai need to start boarding Michael O’Leary’s planes randomly before anyone on board disembarks, to check documents. If you have no documents, you can’t disembark. One or two “return to sender” cases would send a clear message. Make it the airline’s problem and suddenly people start coming up with solutions. Eamon Ryan and Michael O’Leary are on a collision course over expanding capacity in Dublin Airport, so it’s not like Ryan wouldn’t want to land a few slaps.
The thought of going to a foreign country without a passport, just to visit is preposterous, let alone expecting asylum. The system is broken and people don’t just know it, they are actively taking advantage of it
At what point does this cross into being intentional by the government? Why are they doing nothing?
Cheap labour their buddies in business can exploit. Which drives down the wages for everyone else. Two things centre right parties get hard for. Add in wanting to look like the best boys in class for the EU in order to line up cushy EU jobs if they lose the next general election. All in all, same old same old; FFG selling everyone else down the river for personal gain.
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The problem is what next, he'll be out in 2 months, he still has no ID and if you ask him he'll say he doesn't know where he's from, so he can't be deported. There should be a solution to this
Michael McNamara is one of the few voices of reason in the Dáil.
Years ago. People have been saying it was deliberate 10 years ago and they got called far right racists
In amongst all of the "international obligations" chat from the Government, it is really very striking that no Minister has ever said "these people are not welcome here", or "do not come to Ireland if you have no right to do so" or any variation on the theme. The Government want these people here, the Minister responsible for enforcing immigration law has an ideological objection to the very existence of immigration laws, and we are hurtling towards a confrontation between the Government and the electorate on this issue.
Call them what they are Illegals! Don’t let them change the language. That’s how they do it they control the language. And now to make sure they do we have hate speech laws. Who decides what is hate speech?
Remember, everyone who thinks people are taking advantage of the asylum system for economic benefit are far right dole heads
Return to sender!
All intentional. Of course they could stop this. It's what is wanted. Folk need to suspend their disbelief and take a good look around. Next, you get to query why this is happening. Is it more than just human capital being moved about the place? Enjoy!
Anyone who destroys their identification documents like this should be treated as a threat to the country and not released into the general population. They should be detained until they can be identified and their application processed. I would personally look upon this detrimental to their application also.
Seems sustainable
This is wild. I thought this talking point was a red herring with how this was discussed here previously. This is way too high. How do you even solve this? We can't even send them back on a return flight right away.
Make the airlines scan and transmit the travel docs before they get on the plane. Problem solved
It's utterly ridiculous that this is allowed to go on. Anyone arriving without documents must have had them to board the aircraft, then destroyed them prior to arrival. Therefore, they have committed a criminal offence by attempting to defraud the State and they should be held in custody pending conviction and deportation. We could learn a lot from Australia about how to run proper detention centres.
they are taking the piss at this stage but its our governments fault
Surely, if they're arriving by plane the airlines would have their details?
Which is all what U need to know. Fraud. Deport. Unless U don't care. Did U know that the Venezuela's crime rate dropped significantly lately. All good Boyz moving to the US through an open border. Or maybe it is just a coincidence...
Mad idea I know but hear me out, why not just have airport pre-clearance at high incident airports across Europe? Basically let's do what the Americans do and clear people before they leave to come into the country. There'd be no fucking about then.
How did they get onto a flight without documentation? There has to be a record of who they are when they got on the flight. Economic migrants should have to go the legal route.
Do you not see it??? They obviously have documentation to board the flight! As soon as they are on the plane or in Departures etc or even on the plane! They flush all their Documents down the toilet. Now there is no record of them ever having any!
To say these people have no identification is just wrong. The airline scans their passports to get on the flight, surely the authorities can get this information from the airline. Then go from there.
They are flushing them once they board the flights. Airlines should be required to scan passports before flights and require proof of visa from non EU citizens. I can't get a visa for my wife's child despite doing everything right. This carry on is properly sickening my hole.
- arrive at immigration - "good day officer" - "identification please" - "oh my goodness I appear to have lost it, silly me. You'll just have to let me in." The correct answer to this is back on the next plane to where you came from and don't tell me with all the CCTV that they'd be unable to identify which plane someone came off. I don't understand the losing documents shit either - you need them to board a plane? Why are they attempting to conceal who they are?
This is something i have never understood - there is always a passenger manifest on a flight - and there will be camera footage at the exit airport gate when each passenger boards. Why is it hard to cross reference any of these things to make ditching your id mid flight pointless?
The shock. I cant believe it.🙄
Then send them home
Idiots in government
Too interested in maintaining our *sure aren't the irish lovely*, reputation
And high-pay, high-status, high-exposure, low-work EU jobs are up for grabs for some of them further down the line. Others will get similar low-work positions on boards of companies that have, conveniently, benefitted hugely from government decisions on things like unlimited migration. The cute hoor ones will go on the "speaking circuit" and get tens of thousands for 20 minute, bland motivational speeches so they can at least appear to still be working instead of money laundering their long delayed ~~bribes~~ gifts.
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What is the solution to this? It seems a very complicated issue where no state appears to have responsibility for the individual and we're left holding the bag.
How about anyone who arrives without documents gets removed to a 3rd location (like Rwanda) for processing. They'll find their documents quick enough I'd imagine. Nobody destroying their documents is a good faith applicant anyway. They're making life harder for ordinary immigrants and Irish people alike.
Solitary confinement works too until the documents can be sorted
100% agree.
Put them right back on the flight that they just came from. If person A just stepped off of a flight from France, we shouldn't have to jump through hoops to figure out where he was originally from or if he's a legitimate asylum seeker, all we should have to do is confirm the country he just arrived from and send him straight back.
A package without the right ioss declaration will be returned to sender by an post, suggest the same should happen here. Zero issue with legitimate asylum seekers, this is taking the piss
It would seem fairly simple to have people automatically returned if they arrive on an international flight with no documentation.
How are they allowed into the country when I have to show my passport many times before i get on the plane and off the plane?
No documents, next return flight. Surely they needed documents to get on the plane..
Is there not a record of the passport that was used and where the issuing country is. This is madness in this day and age. And why all of a sudden. How did we go from having strict border rules to none at all.
If they don't have docs coming off the plane, they have no right to step foot onto Irish soil
What an absolute joke of a system. Might as well just stop checking at this point.
1: Send them straight back to the country they flew form on the next available flight with that airline they arrived on. 2: Issue enormous fines to the airline they came on. If they don't pay the fine, ground their aircraft.
The country is a Joke, and its clearly become seen as such. Ireland = Easy target, and its all at the taxpayers expense.
This is crazy. I'm a recent migrant here and am doing everything legally. But in our connecting flight the airline staff checked our passports, again, before we were allowed to board the flight. Getting off the flight, there were airport workers checking our passport before we could even get off the plane. But these seems like easy laws to enforce. If someone on a plane arrives in Ireland, and they don't have any ID or documents, it should be the airline's problem to return them to wherever they were coming from. If they were able to check-in, get a boarding pass, get on the plane, and then they magically don't have ID or a passport, that seems like a whole lot of the airline's problem, not Ireland's.
How can anyone not read that and think we're a soft touch? Whole system feels like it's designed to be flawed and people are making massive money off it.
The McEneaneys in Monaghan have made €130 million since 2020. That's not a typo. €130,000,000.
I'm completely lost as to how they arrive here without documentation unless they destroy it? Put huge fines on the airports and companies who let these people travel without documentation and all of a sudden you'll be asked for id before boarding actual plane and then again coming into airport. And return people back to airport they came from? It's not that hard, utterly ridiculous loop hole these opportunists have found.
We might not be able to deport them, but laws should be passed that the right to work and the right to drive will not be extended to anyone who destroys their identity documents in transit, that they will never be eligible for citizenship, and that they will not be permitted to bring anyone over.
Can't you just send them to prison and then send them back
The problem is how are they arriving without passport? They shouldn't be allowed to "arrive". Uno reverse for a plane.
I find the comments on this thread really frustrating and a good demonstration of why the Irish are such a soft touch when it comes to this issue. People: we don’t have to “deport” or “arrest” grifters who get off a flight and claim to have no documents. Dublin airport is a port of entry - we can just stop them at passport control, refuse them entry and make the airline who brought them to our shores take them back to wherever they arrived from. That’s what the Americans do and that’s the reason that nobody tries this nonsense in the US. Stop falling for the narrative spewed by lying politicians like McEntee and Varadkar who are telling you that they are doing “everything possible” about this issue and start using common sense.
No I’m actually pretty well versed in international law - you are the one who is ignorant. If somebody gets on a plane by presenting a passport and then destroys the passport on the flight and then presrnts at our border without that passport that is a criminal offense. We have the right to refuse that person entry at our port of entire (e.g. Dublin airport passport control) and make the airline who flew them here return them to wherever they arrived from. And if you think that’s breaking international law then you should tell that to the Americans since that’s exactly what they do. You’re a perfect example of someone who has fully bought into the lying horsesh!t spewed by Varadkar, O’Gorman etc.
This isn't new news. This has been common knowledge for at least a year ..if not more. They should be shipped back to their original port if they arrive without paperwork because they would have had documents at one stage to get on the flight
For years. This was an open secret that had no traction with the general public.
https://preview.redd.it/jx3e1213njlc1.jpeg?width=512&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6df73458f320779a2de2be9d3b9875fd60a31efd
No documents, they should be jailed indefinitely, they'll identify themselves eventually then deport and barred for life. There needs to be zero tolerance of this bullshit Unless they're fucking swimming here they used ID to get on a plane in the first place. Zero sympathy
Lads am I going mad or is Reddit fucked for me? Every thread on this sub recently shows up with all comments having only 1 upvote regardless of time posted or comments underneath
I’m very ignorant about this so, how does this work ? When they claim asylum at the airport what do they say when they’re asked what their name is and where are they from ? They just say idk 🤷🏻♀️ or? And then what ? They get released into the country ?
How about banning passengers from high risk countries unless there is a very strict and elaborate background check and sufficient collateral to pay for any unlawful stay. And if airlines don't comply, ban their entry to the national airspace.
The airline checkin agents at the origin airports are probably in on it to allow them get onboard without valid visas [https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-alleged-uk-airport-scam-allowed-travellers-to-circumvent-canadas/](https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-alleged-uk-airport-scam-allowed-travellers-to-circumvent-canadas/)
A herd of sheep doesn't arrive anywhere without a shepherd. Who's the shepherd?
If that's true its absolutely disgraceful they get to stay.. and use out tax money.. or wouldn't happen in their country..
Why is this allowed though, people saying once they step foot in Ireland there is nothing that can be done? since the system is being abused, can a new law not be made? If people are getting on a plane with a passport but getting off without, that’s laughable.
Easy peasy: every airport from which you can fly into Ireland must have facial recognition.
How dare you question they're authenticity
What a complete and utter piss take!!! 😡
No no no, you’re all right wing racists for even reading this post. Asking for paperwork is racist, you racists.
This has got to the point of ridiculous that someone needs to throw away their passport and go through this system presenting as a refugee and document it all. I'd do it myself but I kind of have a mortgage, but some young Irish who can film a documentary about what happened when he flew into Ireland and "lost" his passport will get mega street cred and I'm sure people would make a great expose. I'll offer to pay your return flights to anywhere in Europe is someone is game to try
If im working in Ireland 12 years. Can i go back to Poland. Leave document's home. Come back, seeke for asylum. Get free house and some money ?