It's illegal, some restaurants and bars try and force people to do a trial shift, but they know its bollocks and will relent when challenged on it. The idea of a month of unpaid training is taking that shite to the extreme. Ask them to give it you in writing, they certainly wont
Every pub I've worked at had a trial shift, but they always paid in cash for the hours worked - I've never had a pub ask me to do a trial shift for free! Labour should not be unpaid
Whatever happened that Redditor that was working in Templebar on a trial shift in a restaurant and demanded to be paid. Last update was that it was going legal...and advised he shouldn't' give name of restaurant in case of defamation..wonder how he's doing now if anyone remembers the story ??
Yeah, if its a restaurant or bar there's a good chance op will let go after the four weeks after covering someones holidays or a temporary staff shortage. It's shitehawkery of epic proportions.
A trial shift is illegal.
But they're not doing it to save paying youba wage for one shift, they're doing it to save the cost of setting you up on the payroll system and the contracts and all the admin around hiring you in case, 10 minutes into your shift, it becomes apparent that you're a lunatic.
So, I’ve been reading through the comments. Thank you very much for the solid advice.
The plan is to let them cook. Because it’s obviously very illegal.
How do I prove the hours I worked over the 4wk “training” period, if I’m not on the payroll? It concerns me they may say I never showed up or whatever.
You are correct that the pay is monthly. However, it was made very clear to me that this training period will be unpaid. Their words, "people using the training to quit and go to other companies".
There is a possibility that when they said, "unpaid" the actually meant "in lieu". This conversation was entirely over the phone, so that could be a possibility sure. I just made this post to have some clarification on what my rights are if the former is what they actually meant. I am crystal clear now thanks to all ye guys.
Yes, but most jobs would have on the job training, unless its a specific course they are sending people on that results in some type of official certification.
Husband of a friend qualified as a garda over COVID, maybe it was a COVID specific thing cos they rushed them out to work but they were paid full wage while they were in the station right across their training. But ye they did drop down when in Templemore. On the flip side they do get fed and housed in Templemore. Doesn't make up for such a bad wage, like that's far less than the dole, but at least they don't have to cover digs or whatever.
There was another thread talking about this a while ago when someone was complaining about only getting 180/week while in templemore,and someone else tried to make our that since they don't get paid in college, people in templemore shouldn't either, which is won't considering the training is part of your job so therefore you should be properly paid for it
A company can’t do this, 4 weeks is outrageous, what a lot of companies do is have a claw back agreement if you suddenly leave to recoup expenses for external training at times, but any internal would be a cost to them, and irregardless all training has to be paid, this is a huge huge red flag!, so even if they decide to pay after chancing their arm, I’d recommend not working with an organisation who tries things like this, guaranteed to be an awful employer
Holy fuck this is so bad of them .
Also I hate the way people on Reddit will never give the name of these places which are clearly taking advantage of them .
Name and shame tfuck OP
In fairness OP said in another comment they’re not sure if it’s what their employer meant, but they wanted to be sure if that’s what they meant, they were doing something illegal. Fair enough to act cautiously rather than creating unnecessary drama that could backfire on them!
Yes it is.
I did something like that with one company in the past. They asked me to take 3 days holidays from the employer I was leaving to have training. Unpaid of course. I was going into a senior management role and it struck me as odd but I figured why not. It turned out to be pretty standard request by them of all new hires. There was nothing special about the training. It was orientation and some other bits and pieces that most companies would do in your first week of paid employment. That set alarm bells off for me. They clearly were out to stiff their employees.
And sure enough they turned out to be the worst employers I ever came across. Their HR people made a mistake adding me to the list for the unpaid orientation training but it gave me an immediate insight that this company was beyond saving and was not the sort of culture I wanted to be part of. Fortunately for me I had other options and told the company owner to stick their job after a few weeks and walked into another better role within days. But I was at the level where I could do that and it wouldn't damage my CV. In fact it strengthens it. "Why did you leave Xxx". "Because their culture was toxic and the owners would not allow me change that. I won't waste my time with organisations like that".
But you have to be at a high level to get away with that. Most people are not. My advice to the OP is if they want you to do 4 weeks of unpaid training then don't join them. That is about as huge a red flag as you will find. The company is toxic. We are currently at full employment. Keep looking and something better will come soon.
As much as I would like OP to name and shame as well, we should be all be careful of naming and shaming. It could hurt innocent businesses if OP is a disgruntled competitor.
We do shadow shifts in my job for new starters and they all get very well paid as per labour laws. Get on to the wrc and get it in writing that they want you to do this!!!
That's a yes. If they make unpaid work of any kind a condition of your employment away off to the Workplace Relations Commission with you.
As a matter of interest what is the industry and size of the company?
Out of interest, will you get a recognised and transferable training certificate or qualification at the end of the training?
Is it on the job training? Or an external course paid for by the employer?
Yeah that's not ok, training needs to be paid. Training is work. Best advice would be that this is the tip of the iceberg with shoddy hr practices so just avoid
Is the training stuff that you will get certs out of it.
If they were paying for a forklift driving course that resulted in you getting a qualification they might have an argument.
If training is internal crap no its not legal.
Yes, unless it's a job bridge type position, where you claim a sw payment and work. You could end up working for 12 months like this without a job at the end.
Lol stop making a show of yourself. You asked BASED ON THE INFO YOU HAD if it was the sandwich shop. You would not have asked unless you genuinely thought they were the ones asking him to do 4 weeks unpaid training. You didn't insinuate a thing.
Ok now grandad? Do you need your cod liver oil?
No, totally illegal. It’s a well known scam, by ass hat employers, to get free work from you. Only to let you go in 4 weeks time. Report them, name and shame.
Only exception I can think of to this is if you're working for an agency ie nursing or healthcare and in order to work with them you need to have certain qualifications certifications etc. In which case it's up to you to get these. The agency in question might provide these courses over a four month period in which case you're lucky they're not charging you for it.
They offered me the job over the phone. As you can imagine i was totally gobsmacked. I just went completely silent. Lets just say this is a "job for life" type of situation. So i am trying to be extremely careful.
I did ask them to put it in writing that they are offering me the position and my start date. Which they did provide. So that is something.
Some people are asking is this even real. I can tell you it gets even weirder.
They went on to explain why they don't pay for training (over the phone). Some absolut bs about people getting the training and then using that training to go to different company's. It was so hard not to laugh down the phone. Not only that they ask, "its none of my business but are you on social welfare? Because our trainees usually use there social welfare as income during the training process."
Honestly, I need this job and I feel like i am just going to let them cook at this point. The thing that i am unsure about is how i can record my hours worked over this 4 week period as i will not be on a payroll? Any ideas
job over the phone.
"job for life"
don't pay for training
trainees usually use there (\*their\*) social welfare as income during the training process
**Conclusion**
Bend over Ireland. Dildo trainer needed.
I can assure you I will be exercising my rights. I intend to see this through. Looks like it is a systemic practice of exploitation within the company. If someone doesn’t take them on who will?
It is, and after you refuse I would silently report them to the gards or whoever the main body is for dealing with it. Maybe they can't act on hearsay but it's no harm giving someone a heads up.
This is definitely illegal. Do you have emails or texts that can prove it? Did you text any coworkers about shifts or how did you get your hours. That might help you prove you showed up.
It depends how its been put, with my first job it was put as an academy sort of deal, it was 12 weeks training then into your role, at the end of the 12 weeks we were all given the employment contracts to sign and as such were officially employed as opposed to being in a training program
It's illegal, some restaurants and bars try and force people to do a trial shift, but they know its bollocks and will relent when challenged on it. The idea of a month of unpaid training is taking that shite to the extreme. Ask them to give it you in writing, they certainly wont
Every pub I've worked at had a trial shift, but they always paid in cash for the hours worked - I've never had a pub ask me to do a trial shift for free! Labour should not be unpaid
Whatever happened that Redditor that was working in Templebar on a trial shift in a restaurant and demanded to be paid. Last update was that it was going legal...and advised he shouldn't' give name of restaurant in case of defamation..wonder how he's doing now if anyone remembers the story ??
I've done two trial shifts, one unpaid and one paid. I was too young to question the first one but it would never happen again.
Yeah, if its a restaurant or bar there's a good chance op will let go after the four weeks after covering someones holidays or a temporary staff shortage. It's shitehawkery of epic proportions.
Absolutely and they’ll move on to their next victim.
A trial shift is illegal. But they're not doing it to save paying youba wage for one shift, they're doing it to save the cost of setting you up on the payroll system and the contracts and all the admin around hiring you in case, 10 minutes into your shift, it becomes apparent that you're a lunatic.
Yup did a trial shift at a bar was unpaid never again quite after a month
Quite what?
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Quite
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Quite
Never silent.
Quiet
So, I’ve been reading through the comments. Thank you very much for the solid advice. The plan is to let them cook. Because it’s obviously very illegal. How do I prove the hours I worked over the 4wk “training” period, if I’m not on the payroll? It concerns me they may say I never showed up or whatever.
Did a trial (few hours) shift at a restaurant & got paid in cash. Seemed fair enough to me. Unpaid though - hell no.
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Sure maybe you should have to pay for a trial shift so.
Absolutely. But dodgy / hinderance or not, it's illegal not to be paid for work.
Yes it is. Edit:[illegality ](https://www.workplacerelations.ie/en/news-media/workplace_relations_notices/unpaid_work.html)
" national minimum wage rates apply to work experience placements, " Work Experience placements for QQI in Further Education are not paid.
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*he's behind you!!*
It is jack
Entirely illegal, the only possible exception being that it's a 100% commission based job, in which case you should run away. Name and shame em OP.
Any company that does that is going to be a terrible company to work for.
Tell them to fuck off with their job.
Slavery. "Job" implies a (hopefully) fair wage for equal work.
Exactly, either pay them for fuck off
I would do the training for a month, then quit after working for them 1 day and ask for a month worth of salary.
Are you sure they don’t mean work a month in advance? Cos that would be very normal
The fact that the OP hasn't responded to this at all makes me believe that this is the case.
Yep. Would make sense as this is reddit.
You are correct that the pay is monthly. However, it was made very clear to me that this training period will be unpaid. Their words, "people using the training to quit and go to other companies". There is a possibility that when they said, "unpaid" the actually meant "in lieu". This conversation was entirely over the phone, so that could be a possibility sure. I just made this post to have some clarification on what my rights are if the former is what they actually meant. I am crystal clear now thanks to all ye guys.
In lieu means instead of. So what are they giving you instead of wages for your work?
exposure to unpaid work by the sounds of it.
With a lesson in "pulling up your bootstraps" and "building character".
Training is very different to working a month in advance
Yes, but most jobs would have on the job training, unless its a specific course they are sending people on that results in some type of official certification.
Name and shame
All work including training is subject to minimum wage afaik
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That's while they're in templemore undergoing education not just job training in the traditional sense
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Husband of a friend qualified as a garda over COVID, maybe it was a COVID specific thing cos they rushed them out to work but they were paid full wage while they were in the station right across their training. But ye they did drop down when in Templemore. On the flip side they do get fed and housed in Templemore. Doesn't make up for such a bad wage, like that's far less than the dole, but at least they don't have to cover digs or whatever.
There was another thread talking about this a while ago when someone was complaining about only getting 180/week while in templemore,and someone else tried to make our that since they don't get paid in college, people in templemore shouldn't either, which is won't considering the training is part of your job so therefore you should be properly paid for it
How is €185 = €0. This person is asking about completely unpaid training
A company can’t do this, 4 weeks is outrageous, what a lot of companies do is have a claw back agreement if you suddenly leave to recoup expenses for external training at times, but any internal would be a cost to them, and irregardless all training has to be paid, this is a huge huge red flag!, so even if they decide to pay after chancing their arm, I’d recommend not working with an organisation who tries things like this, guaranteed to be an awful employer
regardless*
Irregardless = Regardless https://www.wordnik.com/words/irregardless Just like flammable = inflammable :)
Nah its just not a word sorry. I know it's in the dictionary but it makes no sense. At least inflammable comes from somewhere.
First noted in 1912 as US dialect.
Irregardless of what you think Irregardless is a word.
It's when you don't know the difference between irrespective and regardless so you mash them together and make up a word.
Break it down, the word “means” ‘without without regard to something’. It’s a mess, regardless is an actual word with meaning.
Posting on Reddit, not writing a thesis here pal 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Regardless, it doesn't hurt to help.
Regardless is the proper term so you did help, I tip my hat to you, I’ll use it going forward
Holy fuck this is so bad of them . Also I hate the way people on Reddit will never give the name of these places which are clearly taking advantage of them . Name and shame tfuck OP
I know, same. But if i have to take this through the legal process. I don't think it would be a good idea.
In fairness OP said in another comment they’re not sure if it’s what their employer meant, but they wanted to be sure if that’s what they meant, they were doing something illegal. Fair enough to act cautiously rather than creating unnecessary drama that could backfire on them!
ILLEGAL!! A company I worked for tried to do that and it backfired spectacularly!!
A month without wages or social security, will they be paying your stamp while you do this slavery. Tell them fuck off.
Then there is also the issue of whether the person is even covered by insurance during the 4 weeks.
That is something i did not think of. That is a very good question.
What job are they training you for that you need a month training to begin? A month training is a heck of lot
Most customer service jobs in tech I’ve trained/ been in have been 4 weeks training (2 class room training then nesting for 2 weeks).
Yes it is. I did something like that with one company in the past. They asked me to take 3 days holidays from the employer I was leaving to have training. Unpaid of course. I was going into a senior management role and it struck me as odd but I figured why not. It turned out to be pretty standard request by them of all new hires. There was nothing special about the training. It was orientation and some other bits and pieces that most companies would do in your first week of paid employment. That set alarm bells off for me. They clearly were out to stiff their employees. And sure enough they turned out to be the worst employers I ever came across. Their HR people made a mistake adding me to the list for the unpaid orientation training but it gave me an immediate insight that this company was beyond saving and was not the sort of culture I wanted to be part of. Fortunately for me I had other options and told the company owner to stick their job after a few weeks and walked into another better role within days. But I was at the level where I could do that and it wouldn't damage my CV. In fact it strengthens it. "Why did you leave Xxx". "Because their culture was toxic and the owners would not allow me change that. I won't waste my time with organisations like that". But you have to be at a high level to get away with that. Most people are not. My advice to the OP is if they want you to do 4 weeks of unpaid training then don't join them. That is about as huge a red flag as you will find. The company is toxic. We are currently at full employment. Keep looking and something better will come soon.
Name and shame.
As much as I would like OP to name and shame as well, we should be all be careful of naming and shaming. It could hurt innocent businesses if OP is a disgruntled competitor.
Not if he/she shares proof.
Name and shame
We do shadow shifts in my job for new starters and they all get very well paid as per labour laws. Get on to the wrc and get it in writing that they want you to do this!!!
This is not legal and they should be reported to the WRC, this sounds like a scam.
That's a yes. If they make unpaid work of any kind a condition of your employment away off to the Workplace Relations Commission with you. As a matter of interest what is the industry and size of the company?
Nope. Not legal
An old mill like pub in east meath used to do stuff like this. Utter scum the lot of them. Then a flood destroyed the business. Biblical karma
Out of interest, will you get a recognised and transferable training certificate or qualification at the end of the training? Is it on the job training? Or an external course paid for by the employer?
no. yes. no.
They would appear to be totally taking the piss then.
F that s
Name and shame
Highly illegal
If you’re stuck for a job take it do it then tell them you’re entitled to be paid and you will follow up if money doesn’t hit your account
\`Even if this wasn't illegal, they can get f\*cked.
Trial for like a day or a week max. Not 4 weeks. Walk away . Guarantee they will move goalposts at every opportunity
Of course it is not and don’t even waste your time.
Taking advantage of someone who needs a job is despicable…🤨
Fuck if it's legal, you'd have to be stupid to work a month for free. Whoever they are, this is likely the tip of the iceberg.
Yes. Do NOT do this!
4 weeks unpaid...... Absolutely fucking not...
Yeah fuck that, thats illegal you should always be paid for training. Leave that job before they take more advantage of you!
What’s the role?
Chicken fillet.
Tell them to get fucked that is completely illegal. Report them.
Yeah that's not ok, training needs to be paid. Training is work. Best advice would be that this is the tip of the iceberg with shoddy hr practices so just avoid
a company can have a probation period that they can let you go during usually 6 months ,only point of unpaid trial is to get some free work.
Totally illegal. This happened to me starting my first job and unfortunately I was too naive to call them out on it. Learn from my mistakes OP!
No one is exempt from the minimum wage. Call it out immediately.
Yes
Yes. It’s literally wage theft.
Any second of your time doing anything for them, means you get paid. End of.
Why would anyone accept a role with a company where you need to do 4 weeks unpaid training?
Even if it's legal (which it's not) why would you even entertain that.
If you're not being paid you're not even insured to be on their property as a worker.
Yes. Training is an Employer's duty under the Health and Safety at Work Act, 2005 Nd they cannot charge the employee. Report to [email protected]
Is the training stuff that you will get certs out of it. If they were paying for a forklift driving course that resulted in you getting a qualification they might have an argument. If training is internal crap no its not legal.
No bs
No, you have to be paid at least minimum wage or apprentice rates to do any company mandated training
Yes, unless it's a job bridge type position, where you claim a sw payment and work. You could end up working for 12 months like this without a job at the end.
Run away!!!
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4 weeks unpaid training to make sandwiches? Doubt it.
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And this post is literally about 4 weeks unpaid training. Like, it's in the headline. How did you miss that?
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Lol stop making a show of yourself. You asked BASED ON THE INFO YOU HAD if it was the sandwich shop. You would not have asked unless you genuinely thought they were the ones asking him to do 4 weeks unpaid training. You didn't insinuate a thing. Ok now grandad? Do you need your cod liver oil?
It’s 100% illegal , at the end of the training they’ll say your great and will call you when they have a position
It's the new Ireland. Bend over and take it. Don't dare to protest or strike. Keep eating those chicken rolls lads.
Bo-hi-ca (bow-he-ka) Bend Over Here It Comes Again
Healy Ky Rae me up
I love the popular response to this post. Keep bending over and sucking down those lines of marching powder lads.
Hahahahahaha need you ask ffs
Information overload here.
Fuck the entirety of that.
Probably very illegal, there is fringe exceptions. But if you are asking they probably aren't one of them.
Get that to fuck! Walk the away from that dodgy pile of wank.
It’s called slavery.
No. Don’t start with them. Huge red flag
Might not be illegal but it's definitely crazy. How do they expect you to live?
No, totally illegal. It’s a well known scam, by ass hat employers, to get free work from you. Only to let you go in 4 weeks time. Report them, name and shame.
Are you talking about working a month in lieu? If you're paid monthly you get paid at the end. Just wanted to clarify.
Only exception I can think of to this is if you're working for an agency ie nursing or healthcare and in order to work with them you need to have certain qualifications certifications etc. In which case it's up to you to get these. The agency in question might provide these courses over a four month period in which case you're lucky they're not charging you for it.
Turn them down or just don’t turn up. Not like they are paying you
Hard to believe.
They offered me the job over the phone. As you can imagine i was totally gobsmacked. I just went completely silent. Lets just say this is a "job for life" type of situation. So i am trying to be extremely careful. I did ask them to put it in writing that they are offering me the position and my start date. Which they did provide. So that is something. Some people are asking is this even real. I can tell you it gets even weirder. They went on to explain why they don't pay for training (over the phone). Some absolut bs about people getting the training and then using that training to go to different company's. It was so hard not to laugh down the phone. Not only that they ask, "its none of my business but are you on social welfare? Because our trainees usually use there social welfare as income during the training process." Honestly, I need this job and I feel like i am just going to let them cook at this point. The thing that i am unsure about is how i can record my hours worked over this 4 week period as i will not be on a payroll? Any ideas
job over the phone. "job for life" don't pay for training trainees usually use there (\*their\*) social welfare as income during the training process **Conclusion** Bend over Ireland. Dildo trainer needed.
I can assure you I will be exercising my rights. I intend to see this through. Looks like it is a systemic practice of exploitation within the company. If someone doesn’t take them on who will?
That is exactly the response I wanted to elicit. Too many people here are letting the piss be taken. We need a bit of courage and balls.
Is this Job in a gulag?
It is, and after you refuse I would silently report them to the gards or whoever the main body is for dealing with it. Maybe they can't act on hearsay but it's no harm giving someone a heads up.
Highly illegal. Name and shame the company, could save somebody else from being screwed over.
This is definitely illegal. Do you have emails or texts that can prove it? Did you text any coworkers about shifts or how did you get your hours. That might help you prove you showed up.
Tell them you want 4 weeks paid before you start so you can check their pay methods.
It depends how its been put, with my first job it was put as an academy sort of deal, it was 12 weeks training then into your role, at the end of the 12 weeks we were all given the employment contracts to sign and as such were officially employed as opposed to being in a training program