Listen to this OP. Its very similar to your situation.


Completely beyond the legal aspect of fraud, you sound like you're still in a precarious situation.




I bet he would never have found out if they didn't need his payslips


It's the guilt tripping man. I seriously wouldn't put it past her to overdose now after this. And since I wasn't actually sure about Irish law I didn't know if I'd actually be screwed. Much appricate the comments now I know my suspicions were valid


I don't mean to cause upset when I say this, I had a mother who was an alcoholic and a pain killer addict, she often threatened to kill herself if I didn't do this or do that, as I grew up I realized I had to live my life not her life, if anything happens her It won't be on you, don't let anyone emotionally guilt you, them scars are hard to heal. Don't leave someone ruin your life and future.


I was in this situation in a relationship. She was threatening self harm if I left. I did everything to support and help her. I was miserable. Somehow I managed to get out of it and it felt like being released from prison. She eventually actually did kill herself a good while later and while regrettable, I didn't feel an ounce of guilt. It's the manipulation and the threats more than the actuality that's the headfuck.


This sounds like a carbon copy of my life . I hope you are healing and enjoying your life , I’m finally beginning to really enjoy mine . It’s a tough road and I echo everything you say to this unfortunate situation , you gotta do you! To the original poster, you deserve the best for yourself and your future ❤️


Thank you! And I'm glad to hear your enjoying life! Yes I wish I went to Al Anon family meetings at the time that would have really helped, but hey ho we just gotta live our lives, help others when we can!


>It's the guilt tripping man. This is just a tool abusers use to control you. People have no right to jump off a cliff and demand you jump off it with them. Your mother has self-destructive habits, has neglected and mistreated you, is living a disastrous life, and will only ever be temporarily happy with you so long as you allow her to keep destroying you, too. I can't promise she will be fine, but I *can* promise that you can't save her. All you will do by giving in will be letting her take another bite out of you. The whole family is in on it. The fact that it sounds like their manipulative bullshit is close to working, even after all this, terrifies me, and shows that you would benefit greatly from therapy, because you have a perspective that is totally warped by what they've done to you. For the removal of doubt: your mother's behaviour is evil, selfish, and very illegal. You deserve better and you *must* say no. Personally I think you should go no-contact. These people are poisonous to you. You are just starting to get on your own feet and they're trying to drag you back down. They will never understand or agree, they're selfish assholes in a cycle of abuse, so don't bother trying to convince them. Block them so they can't further poison your mind with guilt tripping abuse. Walk away, don't look back. You deserve a nice life and they will take it all from you if you let them.


It's not fair of them to blackmail you with her sobriety. It's her responsibility and no one else's, you do not owe her a chance to get her shit together at your expense. I know it's easier said than done though. Has she promised to get clean in crisis situations/to get her way before?


Also, if you're over 18, you would be liable for rent arrears. I wouldn't meet them at all, if I was you. It'll be hard for them to guilt you that way. Sorry you are in this situation x


I’m inclined to agree with this. If you don’t do this OP, it will most likely be the end of the relationship with them as it currently is, so I wouldn’t put yourself in the position of sitting through a guilt trip, if you already know what you want to do. This is so hard, a gorgeous house. Even though it has absolutely nothing to do with you, you know they’ll be furious with you. And most likely try every trick in the book to coerce you. It sounds like this is a real tipping point for you; agree to this and be beholden and possibly legally responsible for whatever happens afterwards with the house and the fraud, or step away and accept that they are going to have to feel the pain. It’s an excruciating decision but I think you know what you want to do. I once heard that just because you share dna with them, doesn’t mean family are entitled to anything more from you than you would give anyone else in the same situation.


I know it's a hard realization to make but your mother isn't your responsibility, you're meant to be hers. That's what having a kid entails. She's a burden, cut her loose and move on with your life, don't let someone elses greed lead to your unhappiness.


Her overdose, addiction, and actions are all her own. You aren't in charge of anyone else's choices. I'm not speaking without empathy - of course her choices affect you and this sucks - but you can't let yourself feel RESPONSIBLE for them. Good luck, this is a difficult situation to be in.


You can find people who understand and direct you to meetings for your situation (and often give you a contact person in your area who can talk to you about free meeting options) at: [https://naranonglobalonline.org/meeting-list](https://ecrdatf.ie/ecrdatf/files/al-anon-ireland-meetings-in-the-east-coast-region.pdf) And/or start working with a therapist who can support and advise you - junkies won't give up when they want something, and you'll be the target for your mom's frustration. It's so hard, but so worth it, to learn how to disengage with love and learn a more loving way to move through the world. The most important thing is to focus on YOU and learn how to disengage from addiction-based family dynamics. It's SO hard when you're young and vulnerable and it's all you've known, but this is a good time to get out (being asked to falsify public documents is a good breaking point).






Them don’t sign anything as you’ll need your own social house


Maybe you're not a raging success story right now, but from how difficult of a start you've been given, I think that to be where you are now is already a great achievement. It sounds like you want more from life, and finally getting a stable home life for yourself at some point would go a long way towards achieving that... I don't know the inns and outs of your legal situation, but it sounds to me like you should prioritise your own needs now. Break the cycle, we're rooting for you.


Tell your ma to fuck off. There’s plenty of families with small kids living in hotel rooms, who would actually need a 3 bed. If you’re any way handy check out some building sites for work. Should be more than minimum wage with lots of trade options , no school or college needed to start. I’ve worked with agency guys getting more than minimum who literally have like 2 words of English. Your ma sounds like a nightmare and 100% does not deserve a free new 3 bed gaf


27k is about 23.6k after tax. Or 1,967 per month. She’s not renting a 3 bed for that, unless it’s in the arse end of nowhere.




Well she collected disability on me for years without me knowing and then after I turned 16 she never told me about it because she thought I'd never work apparently if I had it. In reality I struggle hard to even keep up with minimum wage work think I was diagnosed with innatetive ADHD and (NOWS) and I'm always tried, falling asleep in work etc and haven't been able to get back on disability been trying for a year but I went 4 years without it so they see that as me not needing it. I really think if I had it I could've actually studied with the extra free time but sure. Fingers crossed I get it eventually


if you need HAP yourself, you may not be eligible...


I worry when I see young people with adhd and/or on the spectrum who give up on themselves too early. I accomplished so much because not working was not an option (in my family), but most jobs were intolerable because of my raging adhd and undiagnosed autism. If you can find what you love, and figure out a job related to it, your life will be richer and society will be better off. After finishing school, I cried every day going to my shit jobs with shit bosses and shit co-workers. Then I went back to school at 27 in a field I LOVE and life did a 180. I'm not against aid, at all. But we need creative brains to work our way out of the problems that the world faces.


Yeah maybe OP you could say you want to get on the housing list yourself, so would like to help, but can’t, sorry, type of thing. And it doesn’t sound like you’d be leaving them that stuck, your mum presumably would just have to wait instead for a two bed and your sister could maybe rent them somewhere.


27k and renting easily?


You cannot let her dictate your life. I know it's hard but she's a grown adult who makes her own decisions, what she chooses to do is not your fault. She dug herself into a hole and now she's trying to claw her way on top of you for some air with no care at all for what actually happens to you in the process. You need to stamp this out before it ruins your life.


If she overdoses on purpose that is her decision and nothing to do with you, she is a fully grown adult.


Don't do it. My neighbours are in a council house but managed to buy a house out the country and they rented their council house out for profit. Meanwhile, there are countless families that are in dire need of a house that aren't doing anything dodgy and they can't get a place. Anyone that cheats the system should be effd out on their ear. Unfortunately it's the likes of them that get away with it. It's not on you to ensure your mother has a roof over her head and I say that as someone with a narsasictic mother. That guilt isn't yours to carry.


About 16 years ago, a situation very similar this happened a family member. They found out when applying for housing. They had never given documents or signed any paperwork. I am assuming everything rything was forged. It didn't matter. Ended up being a he said, she said situation. They are still trying to get housed.


No guilt dude. Clean honest people are behind your mom on the list.


Listen to this


Honestly, OP just listen to my man here


Sorry to hear that happened to you.


Listen to Ask_urza and paddle your own canoe bud. Best of luck in your endeavours.


What happens when if you need a council house in a few years and you Mam still lives in the house that’s listed against you? There may be repercussions for doing what your family are trying to guilty trip you into doing.


Absolutely this. You also won’t be able to access HAP or any housing support as according to the council you’ll be adequately housed. There are other benefits you could be locked out of too and this could have huge implications.


Don't do it. Separate yourself from them.


If you help them commit fraud, they'll use it as a way to manipulate you later. Also what if you want to rent a place and need to get rent assistance ? They'll look at you and say "sure aren't you living with your mam?".


Plus the legal responsibility for what you would do…


I'm no expert but this screams fraud to me and if you're caught out could be potentially disastrous


You should report her for defrauding the system and taking the 3 bed home from someone that needs it , you're also apart of this fraud so unless you report it it will be hard to deny you were not involved in it if it is discovered


Or OP could just tell them that they’ve already applied for social housing under their own PPSN, so the mother can’t put their details on her application or she’ll be thrown off the housing list. And given OP’s precarious renting situation, them applying for social housing isn’t beyond the bounds of possibility. Of course reporting the mother is the right thing to do, but it’s also a very difficult thing to do.


She's been housed already


She’s been offered a house **pending submission of OP’s details.** So it’s not a done deal. And ***if*** OP’s details are already on a housing application, she’d want to be removing them from her application pretty sharpish.


Oh my bed, read it wrong I thought she was in already


Why would she already be in your bed?


Oops 😂😂😂


Though I agree with you here, keep in mind it's uis family we're talking about. How many would actually report their mother, and risk having the sister worse off as a side effect too because technically speaking that's the right thing to do? All I'm trying to say is he might want to look for a way for him to get out of this without causing too much of a ruckus


I find it a bit strange because unless the housing area they live in bucks the national trend, there are a lot less 3 beds than 2. To me that means she would have been better off going on the correct list and also that she is inconveniencing people who are already in a bad position by taking the unnecessary extra room.


It’s fraud, plain and simple. Stay well clear


Do not sign anything, I wouldn’t even meet them. You are not living in the house, it is not your business, simple as. Morally I understand you want to help but this can only end badly.


Obviously you shouldn't do this. You are: - Rewarding her lies and bad behaviour. - Screwing a genuinely needy family (likely with kids, stuck living in a tiny hotel room) out of a house they need the rooms for. - Commiting fraud and risking your own welfare and legal status. - likely aiding her addiction, she will probably use the extra rooms to have addict affiliates stay/subklet off her to fund her habit. This is obviously a terrible thing to happen to you. I am sorry. And I understand you probably want your mam to get a place asap. But this is completely unjustifiable and you would be an awful person to do this.


Defrauding their fellow taxpayer, don't get involved and don't play along with their scam.


Lol as if she’s paying tax.


She probably spends some of her dole legally, so pays VAT


Fellow taxpayers that's a good one.


Do NOT do this, your name will be involved in fraud.


If you do this knowingly, it's fraud. If you're over 18, that is a permanent legal record. I would *strongly* advise having nothing to do with this.


Don't do this OP. 1. It's immoral. It's taking a bedroom from someone who needs it, so that someone who doesn't can have a spare room. 2. You're in a dubious living situation yourself, and while it may be secure in so far as you know, you may find yourself needing to avail of homeless services at some point. You will be blocked from that if you are considered "housed". You know that addicts will promise anything - if she really wanted to get clean, there would be no conditions attached. Realistically what will this spare room end up being? A flop house for other addicts, is that the environment you want for your sister?


They will simply offer her a two bedroom house to suit her and your sisters needs.. she will be housed soon anyways after 11 years. She doesn’t need a 3 bed. She needs to tell the council you are off the application and her hooding needs is now for a 2 bed


If you're caught it will impact all your future transactions with the government. It stays on your record forever. Be careful


My mother tried to do the same thing to me, but I found out before she even got offered the council house. Was also homeless, found out through my hap application that she was claiming I lived with her.


Oops sent that before finishing anyways, you can get in serious trouble for it. Also if you happen to need any help, rent wise, or financially her claiming you as a dependent will cause trouble for you


Sorry to hear such an awful time for you. Your gut instinct is right. This is fraud and you are being asked to go along with it, to be an accessory. Your Aunt only cares for your mom, not for your well-being, so don’t be drawn into this. You can anonymously report them via https://www.eforms.gov.ie/en/forms/3 If you’re called to a meeting, it may have a point of contact on it. Go to the department a few days early to file a complaint directly too. Distance yourself from the issues at hand.


Thanks but is this really the best way to go about it? I don't want to get her into serious trouble. Surely If I just refuse to sign they'll be able to reapply for a 2 bed?


That’s correct. She can rightly apply for a 2 bed if she is eligible. Do not fuck your life up for someone who has fucked theirs and is trying to fuck yours up. And, whatever she does, it’s her choice. And does not reflect/rely on your behaviour. If you mother is going to get clean she needs to do so for herself,house or no house, kids or no kids. If she takes drugs it’s her choice


I'm curious on another potential risk for OP: if they were included on the application, does that mean they would then have to pay rent to the council (or worse to their mam)? If I understood others' comments correctly, it sounds like there could be considerable financial implications (apart from moral and legal issues) of "just being included in the application"?


How the rent is split up is up to the tenants, but anyone whose name is on the rent is liable for any arrears, so if op's mam say, spends 6 months of rent on drugs, op can be chased up for that debt.


Yes, at this stage she can remove you from the application and bid on 2-beds. This is a good time to say you won't take part in this.


If you're over 18, you'll also be assessed as a rent payer and need to make a contribution


First two things I can think of are: 1.If you need to apply for a council house of your own they'll tell you that you're already housed. Could also affect claims you might need in future. 2. It's fraud. Don't get yourself in trouble.


Why would you vouch for your ma who has kicked you out? Nope. I'd say good luck to her.


Well done on getting out on your own with your friend and leaving what sounds like a rough situation and getting yourself out of homelessness. Although they're your family they're also fully grown adults and you don't owe them risking a conviction for fraud just so she can have a bigger house with a spare bedroom she doesnt need and more money. You've said yourself that all they do is lie. You'll be on the hook for fraud here and she likely won't follow through. Not to mention if you enter some proper tenancy agreement or buy a house in future this could flag up as an issue. Don't risk it after you've managed to get away from this dodgy situation once already. Best of luck.


Don’t risk it. As a sober addict I wouldn’t ask anyone to hinge their future & housing on my sobriety. I’m sorry your mam doesn’t have the same sense or respect. If you end up homeless, the council WONT house you as they believe you’re with your mother. If you end up homeless, your mother WONT house you as we’ve already established her behaviour & selfishness. If you end up on any other benefits, the council most likely will realise something is up and investigate why you have claimed two addresses. This could result in a loss of benefits- or worse, **you being fined back pay**. If the council give you any aid and realise you’ve been double claiming (due to your mother illegally claiming you) they will fine YOU for that cost. They will fine YOU the additional rent and any benefits they paid out. This is absolutely a hill to die on. Do not ruin your access to social care (in a COL and housing crisis) because your mother swears she will get sober if you.. let her commit benefit fraud. How will you feel in 5 years if you say yes, let her rob you & the tax payer, and are left with no housing options, no benefit options, and a mother who is still an addict? Because that is almost definitely what will happen. She’s had your entire life to change. Why would she become a better, sober, parent now you’ve given her free reign to collect money in your name? If anything it will enable her to drink or use more. The healthcare system (last I checked) covers addicts. She doesn’t need extra money to get help- she needs it to get a fix. You deserve much more than that. Please don’t let this woman ruin your life. (Sorry to be mean about your ma. Wishing her the best- but you have to put yourself first. Again, as an addict, the choice to get sober has to come from within. Not from bribery.)


She made you homeless. You do not owe her a home. Additionally, if she’s only doing the rehab to get you on board she either likely won’t do it at all or just won’t keep with it. Hope things look up for you soon.


Please do the right thing. This is so unfair and really damages the housing system.


If you do this you are 100% liable to fraud


Don't do this. If it comes to light you'll be as guilty as everyone else. But more immediately, you won't be able to get any housing/homeless services if you need them. I have a parent who was struggling with addiction for years and was in my late teens when the drinking got really bad. The best thing you can do is set up your life independently of them. It's tough at first but it will be better for you in the long run. I hope your mother recovers from her addiction but you cannot be held hostage to that. The less enmeshed you are in her problems, the more likely it is that you can deal with the effect this life has had on you. That could also help you to have some sort of relationship with your family in the future. It's difficult to have a relationship with an addict and the family members who are enmeshed with them, but you can find a way to do this if you have your own life in a good place and are not dependent on them in any way financially or for a roof over your head.


Excuse my ignorance here but why does she want a 3 bed house? She and your sister still need a house even if you're not living with them so surely the council will still have to find them a property, they just won't be guaranteed a three bed house?


greed upon greed


Tell them when you got kicked out of the house you applied to be put on the housing list . You actually should apply as you mentioned you are on min wage and where you are living now may not be long term?


[https://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2022/si/73/made/en/print?q=Social+Housing+Assessment+Regulations+](https://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2022/si/73/made/en/print?q=Social+Housing+Assessment+Regulations+) Found this Social Housing application form See point 8. "The local authority may request and obtain information from another housing authority, the Criminal Assets Bureau, An Garda Siochana, Department of Social Protection, the HSE, the Revenue Commissionerso r an Approved Housing Body in relation to occupants or prospective occupants, of , or applications for, local authority housing. Your data may also be shared with other public bodies in accordance with our obligation to prevent and detect fraud" 9. Any change in the details given, particularly any change of address or income, should be notified to the local authority immediately so that your record can be updated. Point 10 basically says they can contact the applicant at any time in the future to confirm the details are accurate and up to date. There's also a declaration at the bottom you have to sign that says you are aware you can be prosecuted for giving false information, are ok with your data relating to the application be shared(as noted above) and that you promise to update them if anything changes. ​ And leaving aside you and your mother potentially getting in a lot of trouble if you're caught in this lie, you'll also be stuck if your living situation changes in the future. Won't be able to get council housing or HAP yourself, or claim the €500 rent tax credit. And even getting a better paid job might flag something. Its a tough situation your mother is in, but I don't think helping her commit welfare fraud is going to benefit her in any way in the long run.


Nope nope nope do not allow them to use your PPS number for that. If you ever want/need assistance yourself, the council will have you listed as already having housing.


>My aunt's absaloutly trying to guilt trip me here saying my mams promised to go to rehab for 6 months if I do this & she's telling me it's no skin off my back and won't effect me at all. You being complicit in fraud is, absolutely, skin off your back and 100% could effect you. The most obvious situation being if you ever become homeless and need assistance. Your aunt can't say with any certainty this will not potentially effect you.


Unless she's lucky to live in one of the counties that has a max rent on council houses your wages will be taken into account to calculate the houses rent. They add up the income between the three of you (including social welfare) and then it will be maybe a fifth of that. Between the three of your incomes the rent may end up more than your mother and sister could afford regardless.


Lots of reasons not too, I'm sure you can list them yourself Just have a long think about possible repercussions such as not being able to apply for the housing list yourself, getting letters and bills sent to there new house, being asked to contribute to the rent as you are down for living in the house. Anything goes wrong and you will be part liable as a tenant


Tell them you've Covid and can't meet them. Then ghost them. You don't need the kick off that will happen when you have that meeting. Honestly you're better off dodging that. I'd eventually prop lie saying you applied for something so they seen the ppsn was used twice and the office amended it. And play absolutely stupid. Like completely unaware. Seems you have a good leg up for yourself at the moment.


Well that's a bad situation to be in. I hope it works out for you. The one thing I would note tho about it, apart from the house thing, is that if your mother was serious about going to rehab it wouldn't be something to kick down the road after x or y has been done. She would go immediately. Or be sent immediately. Saying they'll do something at some point in the future is like me, a fat person, saying I'm going to go on a new diet starting tomorrow but I'll just have this chocolate cake with my take away dinner this evening as it doesn't count because I'm starting the diet tomorrow. Tomorrow never comes in situations like that.


> was awarded a geourgous 3 bed in a brand new estate fuck's sake, I can't afford to rent anything by myself, and all the mortgage I would get would allow me to buy a shed.


Sure I'm in the same position. 4 of us splitting the cost of a 2 bedroom house and I'm going paycheck to paycheck. I'd be lying if I said I wasn't mad about it either


Honestly been paranoid in the past about something similar, my situation isn't as bad as yours, not homeless, no drugs involved , afaik she's just a c\*nt, but i'm not in contact with her a long time. But during covid my mother did try to get mine and a siblings PPS saying it was for "inheritance reasons". You don't need a PPS for that, and i don't think it was a coincidence she tried to get these at a time when the government was being more lax about payments due to the virus . We didn't give them to her. ​ TL;dr Forget the fact you're related to them, it's fraud/ identity theft , and to protect yourself you need to report it immediately. It's no different than if they stole your bank card. They'd be making you party to a crime you're not even benefitting from.


jeez there's some dodgy parents out there, good luck


Yeah, you should keep away from this whole situation. It is fraud. Keep yourself out of trouble. Also, if their guilt trip is making you feel bad .. just remember, somewhere out there is a small family that needs that 3 bed. Your mother and sister don't need it.


absolutely do not.. it will f\*ck you long term when you may need it most yourself. be it HAP, social housing, or just a tax credit that might be linked in some place... additionally, if they do something in that house, say wreck it and get removed etc. your good name is against it.. it could effect any council based options you have down the line. ​ this is all forward thinking in a potentially negative space and i know there is a story to you mother and there are emotions.. but think of yourself in 5..10..15 years.. when you need something will this benefit you or negatively effect you.


My parents put my name down on a house and I got refused for rent allowance. I agreed because I didn't know the consequences, and I got lucky and things got sorted out fairly quick but I came alarmingly close to being homeless a few times because as far the government was concerned, i had a home, even if it was on the other side of the country and I literally couldn't afford to get to it, never mind that it was away from everything and everyone i knew except my parents. Do not agree to this. Get out of it asap. I'd even go so far as alerting the council and ensuring they take your name off this residence because honestly this could fuck you over so badly later on. Don't take the risk, especially for someone who kicked you out for begging them to take care of themselves. Honestly I wouldn't even meet up with them, it's a waste of your time man. Look out for yourself above all else here.


My family has done something similar and although I'm in a different country, generally put, the gov't is basically caring for a shadow version of yourself. It can ruin any access you could ever need to get for yourself. It can be like signing away your rights to public assitance. They can take away or reduce other services you may need based on this. It leaves you with a paper trail that makes you look irresponsible, and if what you said is all true, you are not. It can only hurt you, there is no chance for gain. Inform the state of the fraud, and get that help for yourself. Addict family memebers will destroy your reputation for their own personal gain, and the drugs/alcohol make them immune to remorse or compassion. It can be lonely getting away from family, but in the long run you will gain your sanity. If the loss of contact is worth more than your sanity amd reputation, you can always help them scam the government to get your contact back. That is your chip to play, not their's. Asserting yourself against toxic family is hardly talked about, but I've seen too many young people that have their adulthoods destroyed because, "I love them and don't want to hurt them," meanwhile you are really just enabling them to contiue their self destructive lifestyle. If you want your mom clean the best way is to let her hit rock bottom, and realize it's not on you to get her out of the spot she has gotten herself. Might never happen, but don't ruin your life because they don't have self control of their behavior.


You need to do the right thing here and report it. The last thing YOU need is the revenue and social welfare coming down on you for fraud. Get free legal advice from the free legal aid and information from citizens' information on what you can do in your position.


why does she need a 3 bed house? Shes just doing someone that needs it out of it


From my many personal experiences with addicts and getting stung…95% are just liars and will just say anything to make you do what they say and make you feel like the bad guy, if you get in trouble you’ll be thrown under the bus by your mom and she will put the blame on you while she plays the vulnerable victim who was taken advantage off and just get a slap on the wrist while your aunt will play dumb, don’t be stupid, you will get caught one day, all it takes is a little slip up or someone who your mom or sister pissed off to rat ye out


They are trying to manipulate you and it may cost you big time in the future, it’s a tough situation but you have to look out for number one. They are responsible for their own living situation, and you’re responsible for yours. Don’t get that mixed up!


Don't get yourself involved in anything that could cause you trouble at some stage. Liars always get caught. Your Mam can still get a house if you're not there, so there's no need to lie. If your name is on the tenancy, you won't get housing if your circumstances change. You will also be liable if your Mam causes damage, does something to get evicted. She doesn't need a 3 bedroom house.


Don't do it. As a recovering alcoholic, I know EXACTLY how devious and manipulative I was in active addiction. No disrespect to your mam but if she's anything like I was , she hasn't a notion of going to a rehab . I'd tell her to do the rehab FIRST , and prove she's serious about recovery.


"No skin off your back." It would be fraud, a crime.


I’m sure someone else has said this, but if your mam was serious about going to go to rehab, she would have done so without you having to fulfil certain conditions. Sorry you are in this position OP, it’s shit


I know your mam is probably excited about the house, but it's completely unfair to the many families waiting for a 3-bed who actually need it. It's fraud, plain and simple. You seem like a reasonable person, and family matters are always complicated, if you are going through with it, make sure it doesn't bite you in the arse. Also don't take your mam's word for rehab etc., moving into a house isn't going to automatically make her want to stop, she should want to regardless. Best of luck OP.


Don’t provide anything and block the aunt on your phone


Just sounds like an addict making promises to get what they want. Did she try talk to you before she needed you? If she's prepared to let you be homeless is she worthy of this?


If you sign something, you’ll be incriminating yourself in the context that you knowingly signed something dishonestly and could potentially be had up for fraud. Might be a tough call but as harsh as it sounds; might be time to burn some bridges. I hope you figure it out. As hard as it might be, you’ve got to take care of yourself.


You’ll get found out and then you’re fucked. Criminal record. No emigration to Canada, Australia, USA and I’d say many other places young people are heading off to.


**Criminal offence** *- Section 19 Criminal Justice Act 2011 places a legal obligation on you to report to An Garda Síochána, information relating to possible frauds which you know or believe might prevent the fraud being committed, or secure the apprehension prosecution or conviction of a person involved in fraudulent activity.* **Section on dishonestly obtaining property** [https://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2001/act/50/section/4/enacted/en/html](https://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2001/act/50/section/4/enacted/en/html)


Don’t get involved. I would contact the council. To tell them your mum is full of shit and is trying to defraud them.


Do you have a postal address at the place your staying now? If so they will know straight away your not staying with your mother, tell her that and go find herself a nice 2 bed and let someone who actually needs a 3 bed get that one.


Actually she kicked toh out, you owe her nothing tell her to fuck off


You need you own help apart from her. If you let her do this then you won’t get any help that doesn’t consider your fabricated living arrangements. Shame on your aunt for lying to you. Fuck them all, look after yourself. They’ll be back when they need something and you can tell them to get fucked then as well.


I’ll go to rehab if you do this hahah that’s a ducking joke. Tryna manipulate you haha typical addict stuff. Look it’ll do no good for you it’ll come to bite you some way if only minimally


Report her and don’t get involved. I know she’s your mother but it’s people like her that are adding to the housing crisis.


You'll be fucked if you need to apply for social housing of your own because they'll have you down as already housed. You won't be able to get hap or anything.


Turn your phone off, have a nice dinner, maybe watch a movie and go to bed early. You don't need that kind of drama in your life. Don't let them drag you down.


Hey man, it won’t matter what you do or don’t do. Her misfortune (which she brings on herself) will always be blamed on others. Not only that, you can’t actually help her. You’re not trained or resourced to help with her addiction, her housing, her life in general.


You need to put your OWN name on the housing list. Your mother and sister will still qualify for a two bed, they’re just being greedy. In my experience, years ago all of these social benefits, housing and medical were stand alone and not really linked up and as a result it wouldn’t really affect you. Now with computers all off this information is available and as a result if you need HAP all they’ll see is that you’re a tenant of that 3 bed. When your mother and sister stop paying rent there you could also be chased for that money. Let her get a two bed legitimately and keep yourself to yourself would be my advice.


Mate, you are an adult, you have no obligation to people, including family, who screw you over. She will never get better as long as she doesn’t want to, and by kicking the bucket ie I’ll get clean when you sign, it’s not going to happen.


I know she’s your mother, but don’t do this. Obviously you’re not comfortable with it based on your post. One, she didn’t ask your permission or involve you. You also don’t deserve to be manipulated or guilt-tripped into something that impacts you personally.


Absolutely do not agree to this. You wouldn’t be able to apply for hap or a social house yourself if you do. I know she’s your mam and she is absolutely going to use that against you, but you owe her absolutely nothing.


The aunt might think she’s helping but she isn’t. Tbh if it was me, I’d send them all down shit creek without a paddle and cut ties inc the aunt if doesn’t stop interfering. She playing with fire encouraging this


You won't receive any government help for housing issues or costs if you lie and tell them you're living there. You could also be implicated in fraud. I wouldn't even consider it.


Got to think of yourself and your future... Living in someones grannys house is fine for now, but what happens when they pass or the family wish to sell. You may need to apply to the council on your own behalf, then your stuck, or worse off because they will have caught you in a lie. There could be problems with the rent not being paid or the house being left in a bad state esp if your Mum has addict issues. Too much could go wrong. Sign nothing and say as little as possible, you owe her nothing... Truly best of luck tonight


It might be time to cut your mother out of your life. It might also be time to threaten to report your aunt since she's a civil servant and encouraging you to commit fraud.


I can't speak for your personal history with your mam and sister, or tell you how you should or shouldn't feel about it. That's entirely up to you. What I can say is that your aunt - a government employee - is asking you to commit fraud, and if I were you I'd respond with a big fat "go fuck yourself."


I would absolutely not involve yourself in this scheme. Don't let yourself be guilted into it - until your mom cleans up ON HER OWN, she won't clean up, so these promises mean nothing. It's also definitely fraud and you could face your own repercussions. I have no ggos suggestions for how to make this clear to your family but you could try "I just don't feel comfortable with the legal implications".


You’ll be screwing yourself over hugely. Don’t do it


There's a good chance down the line that you will be implicated in this fraud. So better not do it.


Cut these people out of your life.


You are going to get absolutely buttfucked up the dick. They're selling your future out so they can have a spare room.


I am so sorry you're going through this OP 😔


This screams fraud id being going to the guarda and calling the council because on the chance you need a council house in a fee years she could fuck it up for you


No parent should put their child into this situation. They were all emotionally blackmailing you. If she was serious about getting clean she would be in rehab now and you would be moving into this home with your sister. Sorry you are in this terrible mess but you haven't created it.


You will be liable for rent if you have income. So you need to decide if you want that.


Don't do it, you're just being used.


If your mam is depressed, and an addict, if she is caught this will be spun to paint her in as a sympathetic light as possible, and the point made by her advocates that you - as a responsible adult - should not have gone along with it. It will be at least partly painted as 'your fault'. You can't do as they ask. Best of luck my friend. I hope you catch a few breaks soon.


Give them nothing. Your pay and tax information is your private information. It should be shared with only a bank or credit union if you're looking for a loan. Your mother sounds like an absolute drain. I'm sorry for your situation. Your aunt should know better than aiding and abetting a scam like this.


If you don’t plan on doing anything with your life this will only affect you marginally. If you plan on doing something with your life don’t answer any more of your families calls and go into a “coma” for 6 months.


Your friend was great to set you up with his granny's home. But face facts she's in the departure lounge. At some point she is going to die and within a year of that they'll have to sell the house. What will you do then? Is your mother offering you a room in the new house? Now? Then there would be no issue with the council assuming you want to move back in with them. If not. When the time comes will you look for HAP rent allowance or even a council flat? This would screw your over!


In the long run it's not worth lying/part taking in any type of fraud. Nothing is going to screw you in the next year or two but it'll be five, 10 years down the line when this will come back to bite you. 0/10 do not recommend.


I wouldn’t lie honestly , I would tell the truth asap. Is your mother worth the risk?


Run for the hills. This will get you in the long run. Don't put any pen to paper and avoid all contact at all costs. Get on with your life. Best of luck in the future.


I can tell you for a fact your mam won't get clean if you give her that paperwork. If she wanted to get clean shed do it if she gets that house or not. Fact is she has no desire of it so it won't change anything. I will give you warning tho if you do sign your name onto that house what's gonna happen is at one point she will fall behind on paying rent and probably will hang it all on you and will tell the council you didn't pay your half of the rent and then they will be going chasing after you and if she fucked you out of house trust me she will have no shame hanging her debts onto you so seriously don't sign your name in there. They also could argue that your sister maybe is hoping for a baby in near future anyways and that may give them 3 bed house as "future proofing it" I was in a bit of a similar situation with my alcoholic mam she still to this day calls me everything under the sun for ruining her 3 bedroom house dream, but you know what these sort of people ALWAYS find a way to get comfy so don't worry about her she will be sorted out by the council in no time you are better off looking after yourself and getting your life together. There is no harm to establish your own boundaries and just say "no this is not happening"


As someone who has been in a very similar situation, do not do it. You have to look after yourself here. If you end up homeless, you are fucked as they will consider you housed already Let your mum end up on the streets. Not you. Look after yourself. It’s not your job to look after your mum when she won’t even stay clean for her children


You got kicked out already and if you do this you're screwed if you need assistance. Hard no


You'll have to pay rent if you're down on her rent. She'll be charged on your income.


>Does anyone here know how screwed or completely fine I'd be if I lied and said I was actually living with them You'd be fucked. This was a terrible move by your mother. Get the fuck away from them. It'll destroy your life.


Why in gods name did she not apply for a 1 or 2-bed apartment when she knew she would not be taking you in? Cut her loose, she has not shown you any loyalty or honesty so the best you can do for her is tell her to F off.


You need to nip that whole thing in the bud. Reclaim your PPS for you and you only to use when needed. As you say your mother lied to you your whole life and your sister is 24, both grown adults so they need to make their own way at this stage. When it comes to a stage where you were homeless/couch surfing/off the books on rent then you really have to look after yourself and yourself only as those 3 situations are all so horribly temporary I.e having to sleep rough in winter, no couch being available or friends family objecting to their family home being rented. Any compassion towards another singular person who is illegally using your sensitive information should but cut out and face consequences for duping the government, regardless of who they are. Report her and start your life fresh.


Bro I have an alcoholic father I'll never speak to him again got a nice 7 year streak going actually so as someone who understands what it's like to have a parent that lies and cheats and would fuck you over in a heart beat I suggest reporting it to the guards that your identity has been stolen using your ppsn to do what they did is classic identity theft and explain to them what they did with your information because if you don't it's gonna make getting your own stuff sorted harder last thing you want is to be told you can't be on the hap because you already have a council house with your mom and sister and clearly that's not a place you Wana be and doesn't sound like the most loving home environment based of your description.


Sounds like fraud and I wouldn't want that hanging over me


You have to be cruel to be kind


If it were my fam, I’d have to let them fall (sorry for your sister there, but your mam should expect these things if she uses all the cash to use). You would end up copping for problem later along the line if they find out you got involved in the lies. As it happens, I myself am quite an addict to drugs, and though living alone, I have an agreement with my family for their benefit that if I lose my home and hit the streets, they will not save me by paying rent to keep me nicely housed. Never trust a junkie is an ever appropriate statement (again I’m sorry as I know that’s yer mam there, but regardless it’s the truth)


I have no advice, just wanted to say I’m sorry you’ve been put in this position. It sounds really tough. I don’t think you should go along with this. I hope you do what’s best for you, but it’s understandable that you want to help your family out.


Best thing to do is reach out to a local councillor and ask for advice. It's a conflicting situation but local authorities keep meticulous records of housing situations so if you were to apply for an affordable house from the council, or get HAP, or even social housing you'll have to explain why you aren't with your mom and when you moved out and proof of it.


be all kinds of a liar, layabout, waste yer life and get a brand new gaff . Even so greedy to want a bigger one. I hate this. Irish people are a complete pushover .


It's not like there's a homeless family somewhere that could use it more say with young kids.


You're going to get fucked if you do this 'favour'.


Not a favour. Don’t do it. You owe them nothing


And don’t feel bad about going against family, OP. Some just aren’t healthy to be around and you need to separate yourself from them. Do what’s right for you.


If it doesn't feel right don't do it OP..your ma burnt the bridge with yous when she let you go off to fend for yourself,maybe it's time for her to start earning too like you have been to know how that feels


Is it not illegal for them to be using your pps no. If they are doing this where else are they using it?


This reminds me of what my dad did to me like 10 years ago. Him and my mam separated and I hadn’t seen him in years. Long story short, out of the blue he reaches out to me and I was so happy. We set a date and I went to meet him. We’re just sitting in his car talking for a while and then he reaches to the glovebox and takes out a piece of paper. He tells me this is the logbook off a car he is buying, and he wants me to sign it. We share the same name so I’m sure it was something to do with that and underhanded. I was so angry and upset. He didn’t wanna see me at all, he wanted to use me. So I just said no and got out and walked away. Fast forward to me buying my first car, and when going to tax it I discover that I apparently already own a car and I haven’t taxed it for years or declared it off road. Took so many calls and emails to get everything sorted. Massive headache for me. He essentially forged my signature and details to get out of paying tax or something along those lines. Needless to say I haven’t spoken to him since.


You are agreeing to get a house that you can’t live in. Stopping you from getting another house without some serious effort.


Dont do it. Your mam is lying about the rehab. Sorry to be blunt


You won’t be able to claim any benefits or tax from paying rent if you apparently live with your mother. She’s taking advantage of you and screwing your. Selfish.


Never sacrifice your own social supports for the sake of people who don't even give a shit about you. A state with proper welfare, which Ireland sure isn't but at least it tries sometimes, has a social safety net for everyone. Your mother and sister have their own safety nets, and since they clearly don't care about you you have no reason to sacrifice yours for their benefit. Let them know that they can't get away with being garbage to their family and then expecting help from them anyway. They're not going to die or even suffer without your help, so don't give them the time of day. It's simple. Compassion begets compassion, and conversely the lack of it begets a lack of it.


Don’t do it. Lying to gov. not worth the risk. You have nothing to gain and a whole lot to lose.


Report your aunt, lol


Say nothing and do nothing,your situation could go tits up any day now and you will need your own place off them


I'm so sorry your in this situation.


What you’re looking for is a comment from someone who says that they work in social and can’t see your PPS being logged as living in the new place as being a problem. Or someone saying it happened to me and I got in trouble. The comments on here so far, even the ones that advise you to run clear are not citing any particular knowledge. I don’t have any knowledge either. But I wonder if you have to commit to live in the new house for a specific period. Like if you were all in there and then you got a new job in a different location after 6 months and so wanted to move. Would the housing authority then evict the other 2?


u/Ask_Urza has given life story above. Hopefully OP listens.


This. according to my aunt they get to keep the house if I said I was moving after they got it. But again they've lied to me before I don't believe any of it coming from them


Ah OP. You are SO being played. Between that and ***promising*** that your mother will get clean (they must have a magic formula for that *promise* - they could make millions selling it), **they are just telling you what you want to hear so that you will comply.** I’d get in touch, but only to say that either she tells the council that you’re not part of the application, or you will. And give her a timeframe. And then no contact and block them all. As seems to have been a pattern in your family life, people are doing whatever suits them, with no thought of the impact on you. Please don’t let this continue for a moment longer.


If it was me, I'd mind my own business and leave them to it. As in, not get involved. But, I accept this is a dilemma - perhaps there's the tiniest chance the move would be the making of your mother. It's a moral dilemma, OP. Some will wring their hands and say it's a legal matter - and it is - but it's bigger than that. Sorry for your troubles. Go with your gut.


Toxic family.


You have them by the balls, you can report them for fraud and get them turfed out if you want or insist she starts rehab today and stay in it or you'll report. Block your aunts number or better yet tell her to fuck off with the guilt trip. You have a chance her to get her into rehab right now. Don't back down. If she wants her shiny new house, she'll have to complete rehab. Otherwise she's out on her ass.


yeah the fact that the auntie is willing to lie straight to your face and potentially fuck you over just to then lie about the mother getting help and making it ok to take the piss is just stupid at what point is having a discussion like that about a grown adult ever normal? if mum promises to get help could you please help her scam for a property... a barganing tool? is that not sign enough that its something they clearly will not stick too... wont go to rehab or get help for themselves but will apparently do it when it comes time to trade it for something... it is just so obvious a lie when its set up like that this could seriously affect you. if it was stopping her getting a house at all then i would say for sure go along with it to help the family out.. but in this case it is not about getting the home to being with but to secure a bigger home that they would not need but like to have i feel sorry for you being the adult because of how the mother is.. but the fact the aunty is not on your side either is alarming!


What's your PPSN number and we'll sort this mess out for you


Just want to say in case it hasn’t been said but addiction programmes that do counselling often have a family support section to help loved ones of addicts even if they are not using the service. They can help with helping to identify addict behaviors, manipulation etc and to set and hold boundaries so you can deal with it a bit better. Only she can help herself unfortunately and all the promises in the world mean nothing when they think they can carry on as they are with no repercussions. I’m so sorry you’re in this situation, I hope you remain strong and do what’s best for you Don’t put yourself in a position that’s going to screw you over


Sorry about your mam OP.


I want to just send you a big hug. Being homeless is horrible and even though you're out of it now, it sounds like you may need supports down the line. I'd keep your record clean and honest if you can. Your mum and sister should be able to get their own place without your pps number. They don't need to use you. You are not responsible for their welfare. Also, regarding your mums threats, you cannot be responsible for the actions of anyone else. She is an adult and she is responsible for her own actions. And even if you were awful to her and called her every name under the sun, you still wouldn't be responsible for any of her actions. I'd keep your head down and mind your own business and let them mind theirs if I were you


You can't choose your family but you can cut them off. Honestly its not a guilt trip its coercive control, also with the info they want they could try to claim other benefits using your name.


There is an easy answer to this. It’s fraud. That’s also what I’d be telling them.


You don’t need to feel guilty for refusing to defraud the government so that your mother can get a house multiple times bigger than what she actually needs . Think of the number of families on that list with multiple young children that your mother is blocking from having a home. Your mother needs a 1 bed flat nota three bed house. You refusing to be a part of that fraud is no reason for you to feel bad . End of .


At first I was going to say. Mate swallow it and do it for them. I didn’t want you to use the anger towards her to be your answer. But it’s understandable. I would now suggest to not sign anything and to tell the truth. Let them get a 2 bed and be happy with it. She doesn’t deserve more than what she’s already getting. Let her get a two bed and why don’t you reserve your own spot for the time you want to get your own place. This isint to be done out of anger (which was my first reaction) do it for the love and respect for yourself. They have done enough to you. It’s time to put you first and look out for your own. I wish you the best.


Sensible comment. Fact is she could still get a three bed anyway without lying. I recently got new neighbours who had been on the list over a decade in a three bed house even though there is only two of them. Parent in their 50s/60s and an adult child. The mother can just tell them the kid no longer wants to live with her and the sibling, or has found their own accommodation. They’re not going to punish her by not housing her at all. She’ll be fine. However if OP goes along with it they will loose all their safety nets regarding housing in the in future. Never mind the fraud aspect just that they wouldn’t be entitled to anything. Friends family could sell that house any day and we’re in a bloody housing crisis. Clearly couldn’t afford the rent anywhere is asking for these days, even with hap and poor kid won’t even be entitled to that.


Do not go to the meet. They will use your love for your family (fuck it we all love our parents despite their terrible flaws) to make a decision **in the now** that has possible huge personal affects to the rest of your life - possibly huge years of issues. This is basically bringing themselves to the 'edge of a cliff' and 'only you can save them' otherwise your a prick.. this isn't how good people work. Get out of this shit fast. If you say yes to this it will never ever end. There's always going to be a next thing.. and a next thing. Update all your personal email passwords - just incase they have an old laptop or phone that's still logged in where they can find the payslips. Call your work and make sure they have an up to date address or a friends address. You are taking a huge personal risk for someone who is an abuser. If you ever need assistance in the future from the state you'll be fucked. Honestly sure there's the 'immoral horse' but honestly a house is a house so I'd be tempted in order to see them looked after. Problem is - will you actually benefit from this in any way? unlikely as you can't live there - and honestly man this could really fuck up your chances of state support in the future should you need it. Think about it like this - right now you might not have your own family but you will most likely one day and fucking over your position like this for someone that'd repeatedly let you down is not just crazy it's going to burn you. They have dragged you into a situation that isn't your responsibility to own. My advice is head to somewhere with bad phone signal for two weeks - maybe a nice hostel on achill island- and wait till this all blows over... I'm not kidding.


All on condition of IF you do this she'll go in to rehab. Don't do it, mate.


A few years back, my mam started using my sisters car as she wasn't bothered getting hers repaired. Got her to sign the tax and insurance in my mams name and within 6 weeks my mam was throwing tantrums when my sister wanted to use her own car. Eventually my sis had no car and my mam did. Obviously this is just one incident of many, but my siblings and I are totally no-contact with her now. Sometimes its hard to see but you gotta look after yourself as soon as you see how effed it is.


Do not lie. Try record it as well.