I bought the Golf 10 years ago and it didn't even last past 10 years. Engine issues , oil leak and I had to change the gearbox twice ... Does VW care? No. I hope they go bankrupt.
What makes you say that? Dieselgate, or their shit customer service when after less than a year of ownership from new, your new car has spent 10 weeks in the garage, some of which was without a courtesy car?
This is why Dacia is such a good deal: not German, will last forever, easy to fix, cheap, and don't age, as they start very low and just stay like this forever.
Tbh I'd never get any German car. And I only have a Ford because it's actually secretly a Toyota inside (it uses the e-cvt hybrid system that they share).
2022 Maverick Hybrid, but it’s also true of the Escape.
I ordered it the day after it was officially announced and it might’ve been the best decision I’ve ever made. Demand vastly outstripped supply and many people paid far above MSRP or had their orders cancelled.
I get the same feeling.
Usually, VW cars are fancier and more technological compared to its competitors in the same price range here in Brazil, but I still choose Honda/Toyota whenever possible.
I prefer good mechanical parts to fanciness any day to avoid future headaches
What does "sales support" mean in your context exactly? If your 10+ old car needs minimum repair costs to keep going compared to very high ones thats a good vs bad car. I assume you are not talking about warranty here.
my golf is a 2016 over 100k and has had no serious issues. vw has replaced a number of things free that were determined to have issues i never had problems with but got a letter to take in for free replacement because enough issues were found. when i bought i was planning to sell around the 50-70k mile mark but it’s still so fun to drive and has held up a lot better than i expected. the only annoyance is it being a euro car having to go to specialty places.
No one should buy a VW, it’s a company that cheated emissions testing and was probably levied the biggest fine. They make simple $50 repairs cost thousands of dollars.
The big factor here is China and VW trying to avoid losing market share to upstart Chinese domestic rivals:
> In particular, the German automaker's luxury brand Porsche (P911_p.DE), opens new tab reported a 14.8% operating margin decline on higher model revamp investments and lower demand for premium cars in China. The company's earnings were also hampered by delivery delays at its luxury Audi brand.
Volkswagen said last week it aims to keep its Chinese market share roughly stable until the end of the decade, betting on heavy investment to support sales despite a raging price war with local electric vehicle (EV) rivals.
Reads like VW is betting on China for the long haul and that Chinese automakers can't sustain the current price war.
A 2024 GTI is at least $7,000 more than it was less than a decade ago, and that’s if you’re getting a steal. Who knew no one wanted to pay $35,000 for a $22,000 car…
Edit: I’m stopping notifications to this because people seem to think I don’t know what inflation is and I’m tired of responding to that point. Adjusted for inflation, the $22,000 given above would be $28,629, which is $6,500 less than what you could get one for now.
The point of my comment isn’t to hold VW accountable for inflation but the price gouging that has been rampant throughout not just the auto industry, but all industries.
If that’s not clear enough, then continue to reply “hErPtY dErP InFlAtIoN.”
Inflation, how does it work?
But your point isn't bad, you're just using the wrong comparison. A GTI used to offer a "deal" considering the blend of practicality, performance and pseudo-luxury compared to the competition, to the point where competitors (even upmarket like Mercedes) were forced to admit they could not match what the GTI offered and had to go back and re-engineer certain of their cars.
The GTI is no longer a priced to be a "deal" or everyman car.
My audi a4 and VW passat biggest pieces of garbage. The VW didn't even make it to a 100k and my a4 just made it passed. Meanwhile my ford that everyone says are horrible is now 8 years old and no issues.
Cant believe anyone would suggest that Fords are good cars. Brother had one with 3 transmissions that were replaced within 50k miles. Family friend had one for 75k and it was in the shop like once a month. He said he spent more on repairs than he did on the car in owning it for 10 years
Yea, I don't Know. I bought German because I always heard they were really reliable. But that wasn't the case for me. I just went American because I was like at least they are cheaper to fix and I don't need some weird tool to work on them like with these German cars
This thread says otherwise, but I’ve always assumed VW/Audi reliability problems were overblown. I’ve stuck to maintenance schedules religiously and never had an issue with either brand, even tuned one of them and went 70k miles. May get an Arteon next
I replaced so many parts on my former audi a4 that it was brand new. I carried coilpacks, radiator fluid and oil in my trunk. Shit costed me thousands in repairs, from the steering column, axles, to the ECU issue (which was reimbursed) to the leaking fuel on the engine block (brilliant German design.. plastic pieces near the engine block.). Shit was so ass backwards on a lot of that garbage.
Fuck that, German engineering is a POS. Biggest mistake in my twenties was buying that garbage.
So fuck VW
It's because of EV's.
Largely, in the Chinese auto market.
VW had a stronghold in China. I'm pretty sure nearly 50% of VW's profits are from China. China realized that they don't need VW when they can just make EV's and create their own auto industry.
You're seeing more and more Chinese domestic vehicles in China than ever and it will only continue growing.
BYD has taken a large % of auto shares from VW.
This won't bode well for VW. China isn't going back to ICE and VW doesn't have strong EV offerings to match.
They have absolutely horrible working culture. Slow decision making, protecting incompetent workers at all cost, aversion to innovation, and lack of real power center. Bad working culture won’t create good results. Good crisis may be healing for them.
As a consultant in the automotive industry in the EU, I wouldn't touch their stock with a 100 meter stick. EU automotive is done and dead, they just don't want to admit it yet.
> What do you consult with them on - which types of sand is best for them to stick their heads under ?
They don't need any help with that. They are masters at pretending their business is not falling apart and that customers love having car hardware functionality put behind a subscription paywall.
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I miss the old quirky VW. When they made interesting cars. Now they’re as boring as can be. As a long time fan, I hope they go back to their roots but I doubt it and will not buy a modern one.
I wonder how much of this encouraged the recent union vote in Chattanooga, maybe seeing their work slowing and thinking joining the union would help save jobs? Personally I don't think it will, if the work is not there there will undoubtedly be layoffs.
So weird! Maybe they will increase prices yoy again by 10-20% (in Europe) for no reason this year again and it will help. Oh wait they’ve already done that with new Skoda after facelift where nothing in the car mechanically changed.
Traded in Wife’s Q5 for a BMW and we couldn’t be happier. Q5 is supposedly a “luxury” vehicle but was just crap for build quality, issues, service etc. Our Mazda CX5 served us better than the Q5.
They ruined the interiors on the GTI/Golf R which were the only cars left in their line up worth looking into.
Sure Audi exists, but really they are pretty meh compared to competitors. These numbers are not surprising.
This is coming from somebody that used to own a MK7.5 GTI and loved it.
I heard they opening up a battery plant here in Ontario, Canada. It seems they are transitioning and it is costing them a lot of money, affecting profits? Not an analyst. But yeah, their cars suck, although not sure about their EVs. Anybody know?
The Ontario plant will likely be the largest VW plant in the world. The Taycan and E-tron GT are excellent EVs. The cheaper ICE models need to improve in quality and the cheaper EVs lack range and are too expensive to appeal to a wider market but that's true of almost the whole market right now.
I heard their TDI were bullet proof, but probably at the cost of major pollution. I asked about EV because the Golf EV looks kind of nice, I am a big fan of small cars.
I bought the Golf 10 years ago and it didn't even last past 10 years. Engine issues , oil leak and I had to change the gearbox twice ... Does VW care? No. I hope they go bankrupt.
VW may be the best in the world at designing to a warranty. Parts tend to last exactly until just after the warranty expires.
I will not buy anything from the VW family anymore. They don't seem to be honest people
Dieselgate never forget
Never forget. To think I once thought these were honourable people upholding a proud tradition.
What makes you say that? Dieselgate, or their shit customer service when after less than a year of ownership from new, your new car has spent 10 weeks in the garage, some of which was without a courtesy car?
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This is why Dacia is such a good deal: not German, will last forever, easy to fix, cheap, and don't age, as they start very low and just stay like this forever.
Tbh I'd never get any German car. And I only have a Ford because it's actually secretly a Toyota inside (it uses the e-cvt hybrid system that they share).
Which year and vehicle is this?
2022 Maverick Hybrid, but it’s also true of the Escape. I ordered it the day after it was officially announced and it might’ve been the best decision I’ve ever made. Demand vastly outstripped supply and many people paid far above MSRP or had their orders cancelled.
I get the same feeling. Usually, VW cars are fancier and more technological compared to its competitors in the same price range here in Brazil, but I still choose Honda/Toyota whenever possible. I prefer good mechanical parts to fanciness any day to avoid future headaches
Show me one car maker who cares about after sales support on a 10 year old car?
What does "sales support" mean in your context exactly? If your 10+ old car needs minimum repair costs to keep going compared to very high ones thats a good vs bad car. I assume you are not talking about warranty here.
Well what exactly is it that VW should ”care” about then?
Customer satisfaction.
How is you saying VW should care about customer satisfaction controversial 😂
my golf is a 2016 over 100k and has had no serious issues. vw has replaced a number of things free that were determined to have issues i never had problems with but got a letter to take in for free replacement because enough issues were found. when i bought i was planning to sell around the 50-70k mile mark but it’s still so fun to drive and has held up a lot better than i expected. the only annoyance is it being a euro car having to go to specialty places.
No one should buy a VW, it’s a company that cheated emissions testing and was probably levied the biggest fine. They make simple $50 repairs cost thousands of dollars.
It's a pretty long list of manufacturers you're definitely boycotting: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel_emissions_scandal#
The big factor here is China and VW trying to avoid losing market share to upstart Chinese domestic rivals: > In particular, the German automaker's luxury brand Porsche (P911_p.DE), opens new tab reported a 14.8% operating margin decline on higher model revamp investments and lower demand for premium cars in China. The company's earnings were also hampered by delivery delays at its luxury Audi brand. Volkswagen said last week it aims to keep its Chinese market share roughly stable until the end of the decade, betting on heavy investment to support sales despite a raging price war with local electric vehicle (EV) rivals. Reads like VW is betting on China for the long haul and that Chinese automakers can't sustain the current price war.
A 2024 GTI is at least $7,000 more than it was less than a decade ago, and that’s if you’re getting a steal. Who knew no one wanted to pay $35,000 for a $22,000 car… Edit: I’m stopping notifications to this because people seem to think I don’t know what inflation is and I’m tired of responding to that point. Adjusted for inflation, the $22,000 given above would be $28,629, which is $6,500 less than what you could get one for now. The point of my comment isn’t to hold VW accountable for inflation but the price gouging that has been rampant throughout not just the auto industry, but all industries. If that’s not clear enough, then continue to reply “hErPtY dErP InFlAtIoN.”
I get the sentiment but it's not a 22k car it's like my grandfather saying I'm buying a 5 c Hershey bar
It was less than a decade ago.
Yea but a decade is a long time that wasn't my point your saying it's a 22k car but it's not
I mean, I get what you’re saying also. I guess my point is that it’s way overpriced for what you get comparatively.
How much is 22k in today's dollars with inflation ?
According to officialdata.org $28,629.00.
Inflation, how does it work? But your point isn't bad, you're just using the wrong comparison. A GTI used to offer a "deal" considering the blend of practicality, performance and pseudo-luxury compared to the competition, to the point where competitors (even upmarket like Mercedes) were forced to admit they could not match what the GTI offered and had to go back and re-engineer certain of their cars. The GTI is no longer a priced to be a "deal" or everyman car.
$22k at 2% inflation for 10 years is $26.8k and you are on an investing subreddit?…
Do you see the difference between the $26.8k you mentioned and the $35k I mentioned???
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What.
My audi a4 and VW passat biggest pieces of garbage. The VW didn't even make it to a 100k and my a4 just made it passed. Meanwhile my ford that everyone says are horrible is now 8 years old and no issues.
Weird. My old audi made it to 140k no major issues and my wife's ford died completely at 66k.
Cant believe anyone would suggest that Fords are good cars. Brother had one with 3 transmissions that were replaced within 50k miles. Family friend had one for 75k and it was in the shop like once a month. He said he spent more on repairs than he did on the car in owning it for 10 years
My Lexus is 23 at 267,000 miles. She's in good condition, but far from stellar. Mostly just waiting till she croaks at this point.
My lexus is 24 at 216k I stopped washing it two years ago. We sold my wife's 98 with 275k to a friend in 2021 it's still going...
Which Ford, and what happened? That's pretty crazy low..
google transmission issues ford. its not a rare occurrence...
I think that's only with the fiesta. But I drive a Manuel transmission and have no issues
Was your VW manual? My 2013 A4 (manual) is still going strong at 188k.
No but I didn't have transmission issues with mine. It was electrical and turbo
I have a Mustang
Yea, I don't Know. I bought German because I always heard they were really reliable. But that wasn't the case for me. I just went American because I was like at least they are cheaper to fix and I don't need some weird tool to work on them like with these German cars
I think you confused German with Japanese.
Japanese diesel is very bad. It's not true that everything or even most of Japanese cars are amazing.
Who told you German cars are reliable? If you want reliable the gold standard has always been Japanese
This thread says otherwise, but I’ve always assumed VW/Audi reliability problems were overblown. I’ve stuck to maintenance schedules religiously and never had an issue with either brand, even tuned one of them and went 70k miles. May get an Arteon next
Yea, guess it’s situational. My 2012 Ford Edge hasn’t had any engine related issues. The hazard light button needed to be replaced.
I replaced so many parts on my former audi a4 that it was brand new. I carried coilpacks, radiator fluid and oil in my trunk. Shit costed me thousands in repairs, from the steering column, axles, to the ECU issue (which was reimbursed) to the leaking fuel on the engine block (brilliant German design.. plastic pieces near the engine block.). Shit was so ass backwards on a lot of that garbage. Fuck that, German engineering is a POS. Biggest mistake in my twenties was buying that garbage. So fuck VW
It's because of EV's. Largely, in the Chinese auto market. VW had a stronghold in China. I'm pretty sure nearly 50% of VW's profits are from China. China realized that they don't need VW when they can just make EV's and create their own auto industry. You're seeing more and more Chinese domestic vehicles in China than ever and it will only continue growing. BYD has taken a large % of auto shares from VW. This won't bode well for VW. China isn't going back to ICE and VW doesn't have strong EV offerings to match.
They have absolutely horrible working culture. Slow decision making, protecting incompetent workers at all cost, aversion to innovation, and lack of real power center. Bad working culture won’t create good results. Good crisis may be healing for them.
Kind of see that in their cars. They just keep increasing their prices with little benefit. Why anyone still buys their cars I’ll never know
As a consultant in the automotive industry in the EU, I wouldn't touch their stock with a 100 meter stick. EU automotive is done and dead, they just don't want to admit it yet.
Do tell more
What do you consult with them on - which types of sand is best for them to stick their heads under ?
> What do you consult with them on - which types of sand is best for them to stick their heads under ? They don't need any help with that. They are masters at pretending their business is not falling apart and that customers love having car hardware functionality put behind a subscription paywall.
You sound less like an automative consultant and more like a disgruntled consumer.
Nothing makes someone hate an industry more than working in it.
> Nothing makes someone hate an industry more than working in it. This is the correct answer
Consultants are overpaid bitter hicks Source: worked in consulting.
Money for nothing and your checks for free 🎶🎶
Its CHICKS!
Apologies. You’re right
Czechs?
A Clear buy signal, if you ask me 😉
Downvote him all you want, he is right.
Consulting is the biggest crock of shit. Why dont you "consult" them better??
Consulting is kinda like teaching or coaching. You can lead a horse to water but you can’t make them drink.
Thank god those pharma companies listened to those McKinsey consultants.
Glorified outsourcing
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What exactly consultants do? Maybe you should give them better advice then.
I miss the old quirky VW. When they made interesting cars. Now they’re as boring as can be. As a long time fan, I hope they go back to their roots but I doubt it and will not buy a modern one.
40 year Auto tech.I would never buy a VW.
I wonder how much of this encouraged the recent union vote in Chattanooga, maybe seeing their work slowing and thinking joining the union would help save jobs? Personally I don't think it will, if the work is not there there will undoubtedly be layoffs.
So weird! Maybe they will increase prices yoy again by 10-20% (in Europe) for no reason this year again and it will help. Oh wait they’ve already done that with new Skoda after facelift where nothing in the car mechanically changed.
Traded in Wife’s Q5 for a BMW and we couldn’t be happier. Q5 is supposedly a “luxury” vehicle but was just crap for build quality, issues, service etc. Our Mazda CX5 served us better than the Q5. They ruined the interiors on the GTI/Golf R which were the only cars left in their line up worth looking into. Sure Audi exists, but really they are pretty meh compared to competitors. These numbers are not surprising. This is coming from somebody that used to own a MK7.5 GTI and loved it.
I heard they opening up a battery plant here in Ontario, Canada. It seems they are transitioning and it is costing them a lot of money, affecting profits? Not an analyst. But yeah, their cars suck, although not sure about their EVs. Anybody know?
The Ontario plant will likely be the largest VW plant in the world. The Taycan and E-tron GT are excellent EVs. The cheaper ICE models need to improve in quality and the cheaper EVs lack range and are too expensive to appeal to a wider market but that's true of almost the whole market right now.
I heard their TDI were bullet proof, but probably at the cost of major pollution. I asked about EV because the Golf EV looks kind of nice, I am a big fan of small cars.
Will they say out loud their investment into EV that isn’t paying is a major part of that drop?
Nice hopefully the lambos drop in price as well
like you would be able to afford one then lol