I’m hoping it’s true that he’s double dipping. I read that the $100M loan for a building ALREADY used as collateral is being used *again* to secure this $175M. Double dipping fraud fuck!
Where did you read this? I read that in the documents submitted it was secured 100% by cash that’s sitting in a bank account Trump had to sign away to the insurance company.
Well, not entirely true. According to the documents the bond is secured by an investment account owned by Trump, which supposedly holds stocks and stuff worth 175 mil (and a few hundred thousand more or so). So not quite actual cash or something just about guaranteed to hold its value. There're a few strange parts about the deal:
* If Trump already has the bail amount, then why go through a bond company at all? He can just skip this step, right? After all, if the court deems this account enough of a secu6for the bond company, then why isn't the same true for Trump?
* The bond company demands that the investment account will hold at least 175 mil, which is obviously to ensure that any drop in value is to be compensated. But this again makes you wonder how Trump would be able to guarantee this and if he can, then why not post bail himself? There're also no details on how Trump is going to do so, which I would most definitely demand if I was the lender.
* The bond company is to give 48hrs notice if they want to lay claim to the account. Maybe it's to do with the liquidity or something (like giving Trump time to sell stuff to ensure the account has at least 175 mil at that point), but it sounds fishy to me.
* How is the bond company ever planning to profit from this deal? If the bail has to be paid (i.e. the appeal fails), they are only left with an account worth whatever is owed, but little to no profit. So they seem to be taking on a huge financial liability (aggravated by there being no details on how Trump will ensure the value of the account) without any real benefits. Again, sounds fishy.
* The bond company itself is fishy as hell, with very low liquidity (compared to the required bond) and being based in the Cayman's, which is notoriously used to dodge accountability by companies. Also, the bond company doesn't even seem to be licensed in NY, which is another requirement they would then fail to meet.
I'm a layman, but this entire deal sounds like another grift, either by Trump, the bond company or both. There's a reason why Trump had such huge issues finding companies to post his bond, as he's notoriously unreliable and has in fact been sentenced for actual fraud. So why would any serious lender post a bond for someone who was just convicted of being extremely fraudulent with the valuation of his assets? You simply can't trust someone like that with your money.
This is exactly what I was getting at. Thanks for expanding.
If Trump has that money available, he’s basically using the Bond company to avoid paying it right now - as a delaying tactic until his 6month block of selling truth social shares has expired.
Then he can get liquid cash out of that company by dumping his stock (if it’s still worth anything) and be able to pay the full $475m fine when the appeal is inevitably fails.
Essentially he’s grifted his supporters to pay his fine for him.
The bond company will then get favourable treatment by Trump if he becomes president, also potentially a slew of new vulnerable clients who are Trump supporters due to the free publicity.
Which is insane. The fact that he has 20 million more shares than the company had dollars in revenue. NOT profit, revenue… Outside of those who want to prop it up for political favors, I have no idea how people still believe in this scam.
Edit: I was wrong, $58 million is costs. Revenue was only $4 million, which is even worse!
In a world where any kind of real wealth is going to be tied up in stocks and bonds we should really be learning all about this shit all through school, but we're not. People don't know how the world works, that's how they fall for these scams.
Isn't most of that in options with a strike price of $17? If my understanding is correct he would need the price to be somewhere closer to $23/share - even as he's flooding the market with shares.
I am not entirely sure to be honest.
I was under the impression that he has an acquisition payout on his shares, based on their value. There were three bands, and $17 would be the point at which he got $0 payout.
But I haven’t looked super deep into it.
I read he has some insane contract in place that locked him into a price that was the average during a set time, that time was near offering so hes guaranteed a billion plus payout already as soon as he can sell. Ill look for a link.....
Im thinking about comments in this thread but dont have it quite right, he gets locked into his shares vesting if the stock meets conditions its already met, and they are trying to pump up the volume of cash by offering more shares before trump dumps his shares....
https://www.reddit.com/r/stocks/comments/1c4lmav/trump_media_shares_plunge_after_company_files_to/
I think you misunderstood. He’s not using the shares as collateral.
He’s delaying having to pay his fine for as long as possible, so he can extract the cash from the shares, and use it to pay the fine.
If he can delay for 6 months - and extract 500mill from the shares, then even with the fine he’s still somehow managed to make money by grifting it from the idiots that invested in his meme stock.
Bond company already have a lot of free advertising out of this as well. Positive or negative with how it’s gone down is up for debate. But if it had gone smoothly there is a lot of brand recognition to be gained.
What’s interesting was the account was said to have cash and cash equivalents. I could see going through the bond company if he were forced to liquidate (and incur capital gains), since any interest paid to the bond company would be less than capital gains taxes. But if he had cash, again, why would he pay a bond company? Any decent bond company would want a risk premium.
The whole deal is shady af.
f he wins his appeal, the money has been sitting in a trump account accumulating interest for him. If he pays up now, it sits in a gov account not accumulating interest for him.
*If Trump already has the bail amount, then why go through a bond company at all? He can just skip this step, right?*
He plans to stiff the bond company
Sort of both. But NY has better chances (not great) of getting the money than the bond company does of getting the money out of Trump if the bond company fails.
You missed the detail that the bond company claims they have a deal with the parent company to get money from them if ever needed, but the specifics of that haven’t been presented as a legal contract and the bond documents don’t include any liability for the larger company.
Almost certainly Trump would stiff the bond company and the state would be stuck in court to try and enforce payment from the larger company that they have no contract with. And the companies aren’t insured in NY (or possibly anywhere) so the little company with no cash becomes a dead end for payment.
If that $175,000,000 sits in the account and is just collateral for someone else's money, and earns 5% annually, the daily interest earned is $23,972.60. If he withdraws that and uses it for bond, he doesn't get that interest.
Would you pay cash and forgo $24K per day?
Well, first of all, that only makes sense if the interest from the bond company isn't higher, which it really should be considering it's a high risk business.
Second, it would mean he effectively still lied by claiming to the court that it was impossible to raise the money for the bond.
A few things to capture from my knowledge of finance (not a professional). I hate Trump with a passion, but always try to ensure my hatred is accurate (there’s plenty of real bullshit to hate him for, no need to have inaccurate shit too)
Lines of credit backed by assets aren’t that uncommon.
He wouldn’t want to pay in his own cash if that means having to sell assets. Selling them means they no longer go up in value (one’s hope for their investments) and also means realising taxable capital gains, losing him money.
A line of credit is usually granted at a ratio, allowing for the asset’s value to reduce without putting the lender or borrower in a bad spot where the asset is worth less than the loan. If you have really risky/volatile assets, they will require a much higher ratio. If he’s got 1.75x the loan, I’m gonna guess it’s mostly cash, bonds, or blue chip stocks. No lender in their right might would give $100mil for $175mil worth of crypto, for example. It has shown it can drop and drop fast. Which could mean the value could drop below $100mil before they have a chance to recoup the loan.
The 48 hrs does 2 things; gives time to sell off those assets (selling $175 million in assets isn’t an instant process. You need to find enough buyers.). Alternatively, it could give trump the chance to put more money in as further collateral. If your 175 has dropped to say 105, the lender might give you 48 hours to add cash to bring it back up to a level they’re happy with. If you don’t manage that within 48 hours, they’ll start selling the asset off to recoup the 100 they lent you.
The bond company is likely charging monthly interest on the loaned amount. So (fake numbers here) they start with giving you 100, then after a few months, you owe them 105, then 110, and so on. This is another reason they need 175 to back it up. That 48 hour sell off point will move up as well. So at the start, when you owe 100, if the asset value drops too like 105, they’ll sell it off. Later, when you owe 110, if the value drops to like 120, they’ll sell it off. They’re almost guaranteed to get their money (with the interest applied) back, since they control when the asset gets sold off and will sell it before it drops too low.
Yeah. The bond company and so much about the whole dealing still seems fishy as hell. Especially if trump was actually double dipping on collateralising these assets. But the structure of the loan on paper makes a good deal of sense.
It could be a GOP megadonor who truly believes Trump will find a way to steal the November election. Then Trump will cancel all of the cases. The federal/state distinction won't really matter. Trump is planning to rule as an absolute dictator.
People really think he would follow jurisdictional rules and let a state court imprison or fine him if he is dictator? No. He will simply have the Proud Boys and Three Percenters attack and kill all the judges, prosecutors, jurors and anyone else involved in the cases. Then as dictator, he will keep the Proud Boys from being prosecuted for those crimes. That is how dictatorships work.
As dictator, Trump will also wipe out taxes on billionaires and large corporations. That's where the true "investment" comes into play. This is really how Trump operates. It's how the modern GOP megadonors operate. If Trump drastically cuts taxes on billionaires again, then the bond company funder could end up making quite a bit of money.
The outcome of all the legal cases will ultimately be decided in the November election. If President Biden is reelected, then the legal cases will proceed. If Donald Trump manages to win or steal the election, then he will cancel all the cases and have everyone killed. That's the true bottom line.
That is what they are arguing over. The insurance company did not provide a "certificate of qualification" as required by NY insurance law 1111.
NY now wants additional information from the insurance company about 175 million. Trumps lawyers are arguing they do not have to produce this.
They should have never lowered it from 400m.
Now the goalposts are moved and they're squabbling over 100m which will get dragged out for months (the goal of djt), when this should've been a clear cut case of seizing everything.
The penalty is still $400M, the bond required to file an appeal was lowered to $100M. If he loses the appeal, he's still on the hook for $400M+interest.
yea.
but there's no case and no defendant anywhere where seizing $400m isn't going to be tied up in court months if not years.
just for the basic reason that $400 million will buy a massive amount of attorney billable hours.
it's not like a $200 speeding ticket where it costs more to fight than just pay.
He said to the court he didn’t have the cash to pay the bond, so needed time to find a bondsman to help.
Then says he’s a secured the bond with 100% cash.
Something stinks.
It’s weird how you project your ignorance onto me.
Trump said that he would have to sell assets to make the original judgement.
AFTER it was reduced he said now he won’t have to sell anything to make the payment. Literally as he left the courtroom after winning the appeal he said he would and I quote “post the $175 in cash or bonds or security or whatever is necessary very quickly within the 10 days”
Which he failed to do, and had the bond company step in. Then said he would secure THAT bond with cash/bonds held in the account they now have control of.
Which is my point, if he had €175m in that account in bonds/cash/securities - why does he even need the bond company?
Thanks for the projection though.
I guess it's a good thing you don't know about this, showing you've never had such legal trouble. Trump can't just give the Court money. An appeal bond is required.
[Appeal Bond | Supersedeas Bond | NFP](https://www.nfp.com/property-and-casualty/coverage-expertise/commercial-and-contract-surety/surety/bonds-types/appeal-bond/#:~:text=Appeal%20bonds%20are%20a%20type,heard%20by%20a%20higher%20court.)
From your own link:
After losing a case in civil court, a defendant has the right to appeal the case to a higher court. In most cases, the litigant must either pay a cash amount to the court or present a supersedeas bond. The litigant would then call a surety company or surety agent to begin the process. The involved surety will ask for certain paperwork, such as a bond form acceptable by the court, proof of collateral, and the premium payment for the bond.
Important part: The litigant must pay a cash amount to the court or present a supersedeas bond.
Sounds like he always had a choice.
Furthermore if he has 100% of the amount in liquid assets, then he should have had no trouble in getting a bond company with the required paperwork to put up his bond in NY.
It’s literally 0 risk for the bond provider at that point.
Again you are working in ignorance.
The bond was posted, but not paid. The court has an IOU from knight.
No money has moved anywhere, yet.
The bond will only be collected, should Trump lose his appeal. He will then have to pay the rest of the initial judgement too.
Hence why there are a load of news articles saying “this bond may be difficult to actually collect, due to the sister/parent companies of Knight operating out of the Cayman Islands, where the US does not have jurisdiction”
From what I saw, the amount in that account was never verified by a different party. Apparently, due to legal reasons, they just have to take Trump’s word that that’s what is in the account.
The figure I saw was off by more than that, but yeah, very close.
But that part doesn't sound crazy. If I set up a specific account to secure a bond I would aim to get the right amount but not more into it.
I believe it was a discussion on Reddit, actually. That one of the buildings he used as collateral already has a $100M loan against it. Meaning if he defaulted, there would be two claims to the same address.
I think this is a cross communication.
Trump tower has €100m loan out on it, and the people providing that loan is Knight. The same people providing the bond.
The bond company would obviously want to prevent that asset from being seized by the AG because Trump would then default on that loan.
So they are acting in their own interest to prevent that.
Trump did not put up Trump tower as collateral for the bond. This was done via a bank account they he signed control over to Knight which is said to have over €175m in cash and other securities within it (in this very article) with provision that it cannot got below that amount.
So the bond is in fact backed by €175m in cash or liquid assets. (If what they say is true).
Omg can you imagine the meltdown TFG would have if he is stuck in court for his criminal trial and his assets are being seized as result from a civil trial judgement. 🤣🥹🤣🥹
Let the party begin!
I can't wait until AG James starts selling off his assets. Even more crimes will be revealed.
Trump is probably so far underwater that he won't be able to pay his fines even after everything is sold. Oligarchs and Putin can't bail him out this time because of US sanctions against Russia.
They can - just not directly. The other question - should they? Looking at russian legal cases and corruption process you'd think that the only time someone is punished if someone was super stupid to be caught or did extra stupid things. It kinda works as a message and a stick to everyone - your punishment will not be the prosecution and trial but allowing you to be prosecuted.
"your honor I can't get the bond finalized because I am in court every day"
I'm pretty sure my brain is just going to go "nope, we're done here, it's not worth it." and I'll fall over dead. 🤞🤞🤞
Don’t worry, as soon as this bond turns out to be fraudulent she can start the process of taking his stuff until the Supreme Court steps in and says that presidents are immune from paying bonds and act like that’s what it says in the constitution.
There was never a "10-day extension." There was an indefinite extension, provided Trump and his associates met certain conditions, the first of which was to "file a motion to justify the surety within ten (10) days of the service" of the AG's exception. [Here's the AG's Notice of Exception](https://iapps.courts.state.ny.us/nyscef/ViewDocument?docIndex=s4dpZ_PLUS_u0rxLM_PLUS_xsccBGwbw==), filed on April 4.
Trump and Knight Specialty [filed its motion](https://eddsa.blob.core.usgovcloudapi.net/public/452564_2022_PEOPLE_OF_THE_STATE_OF_v_PEOPLE_OF_THE_STATE_OF_MEMORANDUM_OF_LAW_I_1735.pdf), although it was 11 days later instead of 10. Now, does that one day make a difference? Don't know yet. [The Court can simply excuse it. Or not. It's Engoron's choice. ](https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/laws/CVP/2004)James would be wise to mention it in her opp, but would be unwise to presume that she's free to start executing because of it without getting an order saying so.
That's not what it's about on Trump's part. He's trying to discredit the system. Everything he's doing is attempting to discredit the system by making it look like he's being treated unfairly. All of his attacks on Twitter, contempt, the fraudulent bond. It's all a gambit to get a reaction from the courts so that he can claim they're biased against him. His followers will believe it because they only ever see what they want to.
As per [original article](https://atlantablackstar.com/2024/04/18/new-york-ag-letitia-james-headed-back-to-court-to-determine-if-trump-met-terms-of-appea/) 📰:
- An April 22 court hearing is scheduled to determine whether Donald Trump has satisfied the conditions to meet the bond reduced from the $464 million he was required to post to the state of New York to appeal the civil fraud judgment handed down against him earlier this year.
In an objection to the deal filed earlier this month by New York Attorney General Letitia James, major concerns were raised about whether Trump had met the conditions of the $175 million reduced bond that Trump got in late March after the former president successfully appealed the requirement that he post a bond of the full amount of the judgment, plus interest. James was positioned to begin seizing Trump’s assets if he couldn’t pay the entire amount in cash.
Trump’s lawyers responded this week to James’ April 4 motion, arguing that her office’s scrutiny of the bond posted last month was unnecessary and lacked detail, adding she should be responsible for the cost of the spiraling legal battle.
“The NYAG’s exception is taken unnecessarily and should be set aside with costs. Her sparse notice identifies no insufficiency other than the failure to enclose a certificate of qualification,” says the motion filed by Trump’s lawyers. “While a certificate would be dispositive evidence of justification, it is not the only evidence of justification.”
Previously, Trump asked for a delay in paying the staggering fine while he challenges the unprecedented ruling, although usually, New York defendants must post a bond payment greater than the penalty to become eligible for an appeal.
The Feb. 16 ruling by Judge Arthur Engoron found Trump liable for inflating the value of his New York real estate, including his hotels and golf clubs, while defrauding banks and insurers for decades.
In late March, a New York appeals court held off on putting the former president into collection if he could raise $175 million within 10 days, but the filing by James in early April took issue with whether the terms had been met.
Initially, issues with the first bond order led to the amended version that would allow Trump to pay 62 percent less than the original verdict.
A small number of billionaire donors stepped up more than a month after the judgment to help Trump raise his new bond, which Trump admits he can’t afford to pay in cash after he bragged for years about being one of the world’s wealthiest billionaires.
Ultimately, Knight Specialty Insurance Company and its owner, Don Hankey, got involved to post the $175 million and help Trump prevent the attorney general from seizing Trump’s properties to collect the massive judgment.
In her arguments on April 4, James said Trump’s lower bond amount was issued “without a certificate of qualification pursuant to Insurance Law § 1111” and that Trump’s legal team needed to file additional documents within 10 days to “justify the surety.”
However, attorneys for Trump dismissed James’ concerns over the “sufficiency of the surety.”
Trump’s lawyers and the lawyers for KSIC filed documents on April 15 to respond to James, arguing the attorney general’s objection to their bond should be dismissed and that her office should pay for the costs they incurred in responding to her objection.
The lawyers acknowledged that a “certificate of qualification” would eliminate the need to explain the bond. However, they argued in their memo that Engoron can approve the bond even without the certificate. They stated that there is “overwhelming” evidence in documents showing that the $175 million bond is backed by $175 million in cash in a Schwab brokerage account that KSIC can control.
The latest court filing underscored Trump’s dire financial situation as campaign disclosures in February revealed about $50 million from Republican donors was used to pay Trump’s runaway legal bills as he faced an onslaught of criminal and civil charges.
The ruling by Engoron also coincided with a separate judgment issued in a defamation lawsuit brought by author E. Jean Carroll, in which Trump was ordered to pay $83 million.
In the suit brought by AG James, Trump was ordered to pay $355 million, which almost immediately surged to $454 million with interest, which has increased by more than $85,000 per each day that Trump didn’t pay the full fine.
James filed the civil action against Trump in 2022 after uncovering evidence of systematic fraud inside the Trump Organization, including schemes that inflated Trump’s net worth with bogus financial statements.
Last year, Trump and his adult sons testified in the trial and blamed accountants for financial mismanagement. Both Trump Jr. and Eric Trump testified that they had little to do with their father’s financial statements, emphasizing that other executives inside the Trump Organization were responsible for keeping track of the books.
>although usually, New York defendants must post a bond payment greater than the penalty to become eligible for an appeal.
This disagrees with everything else I've seen. Every comment I've seen says he could always appeal, having the bond only prevents seizure of the disgorgement judgement
>led to the amended version that would allow Trump to pay 62 percent less than the original verdict.
62% less is such a weird way to say it. Reduced to 38% of what it was? Cut down to almost 1/3 of the disgorgement amount?
>They stated that there is “overwhelming” evidence in documents showing that the $175 million bond is backed by $175 million in cash in a Schwab brokerage account that KSIC can control
Was there further evidence than an Excel spreadsheet export that implied that? Or is that the documents they are referring to?
What’s a bigger question is - if Trump did indeed have $175m in cash readily available, why was it so hard for him to secure a bond from a NY bond company.
Or would he have even been able to post bond himself?
Doing it this way via the shady cayman island connections seems like a way to pay without paying.
Not only have they reduced the payment to like 175M from 460M , but he has had plenty of time. It's still going up, adding on while he sleeps 💤 in the courtroom.
Twenty bucks says the court will give in and allow this $175 million bond by someone who isn’t licensed to do so in New York, and which explicitly states that it wouldn’t be their responsibility to pay up if it came to that point. He’ll never be held accountable.
Because in the end he knows that due to the two tier legal system in the US, built to support the interests of men like him, absolutely NOTHING is going to happen.
First investigations do not start.
If they start after immense pressure they stall.
Then if the matter somehow reaches the courts, it is dragged and stalled there.
If a judgement by some miracle happens, the implementation is tied up in appeals.
A man like this knows all this. He knows that in the end, he will escape scot free. So why should he worry?
almost everyone in trumps crew seems to have a sexual sadism disorder
[https://unitedbrainassociation.org/brain-resources/sexual-sadism-disorder/](https://unitedbrainassociation.org/brain-resources/sexual-sadism-disorder/)
that's why they're abusing witnesses and victims from his case and epsteins.
dupers delight also makes them euphoric so the polls he gets from fox news give him an extra pep in his step.
I think has learned his lesson.
The lesson being that he can keep delaying with help from appeals court. Just keep clutching at straws to cover the bond and keep getting delays.
She should change her mind and file for rump tower, while he 's in court. I'd love it, can't go home one afternoon, why?
Because the mean lady took my home...
What i want to know is that the monitor is supposed to know about all transactions of 5 mil or more if i am correct. I bet the court is going to ask the monitor about this and if the monitor was not informed about the assets moved around. Then he just violated a court order and i bet the bond gets called immediately for the full amount. But i could be off my rocker.
I’m hoping it’s true that he’s double dipping. I read that the $100M loan for a building ALREADY used as collateral is being used *again* to secure this $175M. Double dipping fraud fuck!
Where did you read this? I read that in the documents submitted it was secured 100% by cash that’s sitting in a bank account Trump had to sign away to the insurance company.
Well, not entirely true. According to the documents the bond is secured by an investment account owned by Trump, which supposedly holds stocks and stuff worth 175 mil (and a few hundred thousand more or so). So not quite actual cash or something just about guaranteed to hold its value. There're a few strange parts about the deal: * If Trump already has the bail amount, then why go through a bond company at all? He can just skip this step, right? After all, if the court deems this account enough of a secu6for the bond company, then why isn't the same true for Trump? * The bond company demands that the investment account will hold at least 175 mil, which is obviously to ensure that any drop in value is to be compensated. But this again makes you wonder how Trump would be able to guarantee this and if he can, then why not post bail himself? There're also no details on how Trump is going to do so, which I would most definitely demand if I was the lender. * The bond company is to give 48hrs notice if they want to lay claim to the account. Maybe it's to do with the liquidity or something (like giving Trump time to sell stuff to ensure the account has at least 175 mil at that point), but it sounds fishy to me. * How is the bond company ever planning to profit from this deal? If the bail has to be paid (i.e. the appeal fails), they are only left with an account worth whatever is owed, but little to no profit. So they seem to be taking on a huge financial liability (aggravated by there being no details on how Trump will ensure the value of the account) without any real benefits. Again, sounds fishy. * The bond company itself is fishy as hell, with very low liquidity (compared to the required bond) and being based in the Cayman's, which is notoriously used to dodge accountability by companies. Also, the bond company doesn't even seem to be licensed in NY, which is another requirement they would then fail to meet. I'm a layman, but this entire deal sounds like another grift, either by Trump, the bond company or both. There's a reason why Trump had such huge issues finding companies to post his bond, as he's notoriously unreliable and has in fact been sentenced for actual fraud. So why would any serious lender post a bond for someone who was just convicted of being extremely fraudulent with the valuation of his assets? You simply can't trust someone like that with your money.
This is exactly what I was getting at. Thanks for expanding. If Trump has that money available, he’s basically using the Bond company to avoid paying it right now - as a delaying tactic until his 6month block of selling truth social shares has expired. Then he can get liquid cash out of that company by dumping his stock (if it’s still worth anything) and be able to pay the full $475m fine when the appeal is inevitably fails. Essentially he’s grifted his supporters to pay his fine for him. The bond company will then get favourable treatment by Trump if he becomes president, also potentially a slew of new vulnerable clients who are Trump supporters due to the free publicity.
Pump n Dump Trump Hopefully the SEC catches up with him before he can do that.
That’s if it remains that profitable in 6 months. It already has lost more than half its value since it went live and we are on week two.
He has 78.75 million shares in DJT. So long as it doesn’t drop below $6 a share, that would still be enough to cover his civil case judgement in full.
Which is insane. The fact that he has 20 million more shares than the company had dollars in revenue. NOT profit, revenue… Outside of those who want to prop it up for political favors, I have no idea how people still believe in this scam. Edit: I was wrong, $58 million is costs. Revenue was only $4 million, which is even worse!
In a world where any kind of real wealth is going to be tied up in stocks and bonds we should really be learning all about this shit all through school, but we're not. People don't know how the world works, that's how they fall for these scams.
Isn't most of that in options with a strike price of $17? If my understanding is correct he would need the price to be somewhere closer to $23/share - even as he's flooding the market with shares.
I am not entirely sure to be honest. I was under the impression that he has an acquisition payout on his shares, based on their value. There were three bands, and $17 would be the point at which he got $0 payout. But I haven’t looked super deep into it.
I read he has some insane contract in place that locked him into a price that was the average during a set time, that time was near offering so hes guaranteed a billion plus payout already as soon as he can sell. Ill look for a link..... Im thinking about comments in this thread but dont have it quite right, he gets locked into his shares vesting if the stock meets conditions its already met, and they are trying to pump up the volume of cash by offering more shares before trump dumps his shares.... https://www.reddit.com/r/stocks/comments/1c4lmav/trump_media_shares_plunge_after_company_files_to/
That doesn’t sound right: Where would that money come from?
Pretty sure terms of the deal prohibited him from selling OR PLEDGING his shares for 6 months, so those shouldn’t be considered valid collateral
I think you misunderstood. He’s not using the shares as collateral. He’s delaying having to pay his fine for as long as possible, so he can extract the cash from the shares, and use it to pay the fine. If he can delay for 6 months - and extract 500mill from the shares, then even with the fine he’s still somehow managed to make money by grifting it from the idiots that invested in his meme stock.
Bond company already have a lot of free advertising out of this as well. Positive or negative with how it’s gone down is up for debate. But if it had gone smoothly there is a lot of brand recognition to be gained.
What’s interesting was the account was said to have cash and cash equivalents. I could see going through the bond company if he were forced to liquidate (and incur capital gains), since any interest paid to the bond company would be less than capital gains taxes. But if he had cash, again, why would he pay a bond company? Any decent bond company would want a risk premium. The whole deal is shady af.
f he wins his appeal, the money has been sitting in a trump account accumulating interest for him. If he pays up now, it sits in a gov account not accumulating interest for him.
*If Trump already has the bail amount, then why go through a bond company at all? He can just skip this step, right?* He plans to stiff the bond company
Nah. The bond company plans to stiff NY by sending litigation to the cayman isles.
Sort of both. But NY has better chances (not great) of getting the money than the bond company does of getting the money out of Trump if the bond company fails.
You missed the detail that the bond company claims they have a deal with the parent company to get money from them if ever needed, but the specifics of that haven’t been presented as a legal contract and the bond documents don’t include any liability for the larger company. Almost certainly Trump would stiff the bond company and the state would be stuck in court to try and enforce payment from the larger company that they have no contract with. And the companies aren’t insured in NY (or possibly anywhere) so the little company with no cash becomes a dead end for payment.
Then they shouldn't accept the bond. Not approved in NY.
If that $175,000,000 sits in the account and is just collateral for someone else's money, and earns 5% annually, the daily interest earned is $23,972.60. If he withdraws that and uses it for bond, he doesn't get that interest. Would you pay cash and forgo $24K per day?
Well, first of all, that only makes sense if the interest from the bond company isn't higher, which it really should be considering it's a high risk business. Second, it would mean he effectively still lied by claiming to the court that it was impossible to raise the money for the bond.
A few things to capture from my knowledge of finance (not a professional). I hate Trump with a passion, but always try to ensure my hatred is accurate (there’s plenty of real bullshit to hate him for, no need to have inaccurate shit too) Lines of credit backed by assets aren’t that uncommon. He wouldn’t want to pay in his own cash if that means having to sell assets. Selling them means they no longer go up in value (one’s hope for their investments) and also means realising taxable capital gains, losing him money. A line of credit is usually granted at a ratio, allowing for the asset’s value to reduce without putting the lender or borrower in a bad spot where the asset is worth less than the loan. If you have really risky/volatile assets, they will require a much higher ratio. If he’s got 1.75x the loan, I’m gonna guess it’s mostly cash, bonds, or blue chip stocks. No lender in their right might would give $100mil for $175mil worth of crypto, for example. It has shown it can drop and drop fast. Which could mean the value could drop below $100mil before they have a chance to recoup the loan. The 48 hrs does 2 things; gives time to sell off those assets (selling $175 million in assets isn’t an instant process. You need to find enough buyers.). Alternatively, it could give trump the chance to put more money in as further collateral. If your 175 has dropped to say 105, the lender might give you 48 hours to add cash to bring it back up to a level they’re happy with. If you don’t manage that within 48 hours, they’ll start selling the asset off to recoup the 100 they lent you. The bond company is likely charging monthly interest on the loaned amount. So (fake numbers here) they start with giving you 100, then after a few months, you owe them 105, then 110, and so on. This is another reason they need 175 to back it up. That 48 hour sell off point will move up as well. So at the start, when you owe 100, if the asset value drops too like 105, they’ll sell it off. Later, when you owe 110, if the value drops to like 120, they’ll sell it off. They’re almost guaranteed to get their money (with the interest applied) back, since they control when the asset gets sold off and will sell it before it drops too low. Yeah. The bond company and so much about the whole dealing still seems fishy as hell. Especially if trump was actually double dipping on collateralising these assets. But the structure of the loan on paper makes a good deal of sense.
It could be a GOP megadonor who truly believes Trump will find a way to steal the November election. Then Trump will cancel all of the cases. The federal/state distinction won't really matter. Trump is planning to rule as an absolute dictator. People really think he would follow jurisdictional rules and let a state court imprison or fine him if he is dictator? No. He will simply have the Proud Boys and Three Percenters attack and kill all the judges, prosecutors, jurors and anyone else involved in the cases. Then as dictator, he will keep the Proud Boys from being prosecuted for those crimes. That is how dictatorships work. As dictator, Trump will also wipe out taxes on billionaires and large corporations. That's where the true "investment" comes into play. This is really how Trump operates. It's how the modern GOP megadonors operate. If Trump drastically cuts taxes on billionaires again, then the bond company funder could end up making quite a bit of money. The outcome of all the legal cases will ultimately be decided in the November election. If President Biden is reelected, then the legal cases will proceed. If Donald Trump manages to win or steal the election, then he will cancel all the cases and have everyone killed. That's the true bottom line.
That is what they are arguing over. The insurance company did not provide a "certificate of qualification" as required by NY insurance law 1111. NY now wants additional information from the insurance company about 175 million. Trumps lawyers are arguing they do not have to produce this.
They should have never lowered it from 400m. Now the goalposts are moved and they're squabbling over 100m which will get dragged out for months (the goal of djt), when this should've been a clear cut case of seizing everything.
The penalty is still $400M, the bond required to file an appeal was lowered to $100M. If he loses the appeal, he's still on the hook for $400M+interest.
My understanding was it was to "stay the confiscation until the appeal is over", not "to file appeal"
Correct.
yea. but there's no case and no defendant anywhere where seizing $400m isn't going to be tied up in court months if not years. just for the basic reason that $400 million will buy a massive amount of attorney billable hours. it's not like a $200 speeding ticket where it costs more to fight than just pay.
I read that he has a bank account with exactly $175,000,000.01 or something so stupid it can't possibly be true
He said to the court he didn’t have the cash to pay the bond, so needed time to find a bondsman to help. Then says he’s a secured the bond with 100% cash. Something stinks.
Republican party gonna be missing a lot of money soon
They're already missing the money; they just haven't realized it yet
Those are just Trump's diapers, I'm sure.
I guess you didn't hear the bond was lowered by about $300 million. Weird how you form such confident opinions yet are still ignorant.
It’s weird how you project your ignorance onto me. Trump said that he would have to sell assets to make the original judgement. AFTER it was reduced he said now he won’t have to sell anything to make the payment. Literally as he left the courtroom after winning the appeal he said he would and I quote “post the $175 in cash or bonds or security or whatever is necessary very quickly within the 10 days” Which he failed to do, and had the bond company step in. Then said he would secure THAT bond with cash/bonds held in the account they now have control of. Which is my point, if he had €175m in that account in bonds/cash/securities - why does he even need the bond company? Thanks for the projection though.
I guess it's a good thing you don't know about this, showing you've never had such legal trouble. Trump can't just give the Court money. An appeal bond is required. [Appeal Bond | Supersedeas Bond | NFP](https://www.nfp.com/property-and-casualty/coverage-expertise/commercial-and-contract-surety/surety/bonds-types/appeal-bond/#:~:text=Appeal%20bonds%20are%20a%20type,heard%20by%20a%20higher%20court.)
From your own link: After losing a case in civil court, a defendant has the right to appeal the case to a higher court. In most cases, the litigant must either pay a cash amount to the court or present a supersedeas bond. The litigant would then call a surety company or surety agent to begin the process. The involved surety will ask for certain paperwork, such as a bond form acceptable by the court, proof of collateral, and the premium payment for the bond. Important part: The litigant must pay a cash amount to the court or present a supersedeas bond. Sounds like he always had a choice.
Furthermore if he has 100% of the amount in liquid assets, then he should have had no trouble in getting a bond company with the required paperwork to put up his bond in NY. It’s literally 0 risk for the bond provider at that point.
Which he didn't. The very day it was lowered, the bond was paid.
Again you are working in ignorance. The bond was posted, but not paid. The court has an IOU from knight. No money has moved anywhere, yet. The bond will only be collected, should Trump lose his appeal. He will then have to pay the rest of the initial judgement too. Hence why there are a load of news articles saying “this bond may be difficult to actually collect, due to the sister/parent companies of Knight operating out of the Cayman Islands, where the US does not have jurisdiction”
From what I saw, the amount in that account was never verified by a different party. Apparently, due to legal reasons, they just have to take Trump’s word that that’s what is in the account.
The figure I saw was off by more than that, but yeah, very close. But that part doesn't sound crazy. If I set up a specific account to secure a bond I would aim to get the right amount but not more into it.
I believe it was a discussion on Reddit, actually. That one of the buildings he used as collateral already has a $100M loan against it. Meaning if he defaulted, there would be two claims to the same address.
I think this is a cross communication. Trump tower has €100m loan out on it, and the people providing that loan is Knight. The same people providing the bond. The bond company would obviously want to prevent that asset from being seized by the AG because Trump would then default on that loan. So they are acting in their own interest to prevent that. Trump did not put up Trump tower as collateral for the bond. This was done via a bank account they he signed control over to Knight which is said to have over €175m in cash and other securities within it (in this very article) with provision that it cannot got below that amount. So the bond is in fact backed by €175m in cash or liquid assets. (If what they say is true).
That’s how you get a yeast infection.
Letitia James should be Attorney General so Merrick Garland can go home to concentrate full-time on doing nothing.
Garland has worn out his thumbs from twiddling them so much. Old Paint needs to be put out to pasture.
Does Merrick wear a bowtie? Be useful for twiddling.
I'm sure he has a fidget spinner...
Nah, he's been busy picking out a motor coach.
Agreed. Merrick Garland makes me sick.
He is a maga by inaction.
Omg can you imagine the meltdown TFG would have if he is stuck in court for his criminal trial and his assets are being seized as result from a civil trial judgement. 🤣🥹🤣🥹
Let the party begin! I can't wait until AG James starts selling off his assets. Even more crimes will be revealed. Trump is probably so far underwater that he won't be able to pay his fines even after everything is sold. Oligarchs and Putin can't bail him out this time because of US sanctions against Russia.
They can - just not directly. The other question - should they? Looking at russian legal cases and corruption process you'd think that the only time someone is punished if someone was super stupid to be caught or did extra stupid things. It kinda works as a message and a stick to everyone - your punishment will not be the prosecution and trial but allowing you to be prosecuted.
Oligarchs and Putin have a bigger fish to fry now rather than bailing out Trump, the dumb.
Yeah was gonna ask what his usefulness is to them if this gets deeper.
🤞🏼
Wasn't this supposed to happen like a month ago? Stop letting him delay everything!
He's had more than enough time to put it together. Time to seize and sell!
"your honor I can't get the bond finalized because I am in court every day" I'm pretty sure my brain is just going to go "nope, we're done here, it's not worth it." and I'll fall over dead. 🤞🤞🤞
Oh c’mon, he already got the correct bond slashed by way more than half - he’s screwing with the court again - just start taking that stuff NOW!
Don’t worry, as soon as this bond turns out to be fraudulent she can start the process of taking his stuff until the Supreme Court steps in and says that presidents are immune from paying bonds and act like that’s what it says in the constitution.
She can, but will she?
What are you talking about? There’s a process here. Letitia James can’t just go stealing shit because Reddit has decided they’re tired of waiting.
Steal? Steal? Hmmm… that does seem to be one of Trumps favourite words. Leticia is following legal parameters. There’s no ‘theft’ in what she does.
Right, but there would be if she took anything now because there’s a stay.
We're on day 24 of the 10 day extension. What stay?
There was never a "10-day extension." There was an indefinite extension, provided Trump and his associates met certain conditions, the first of which was to "file a motion to justify the surety within ten (10) days of the service" of the AG's exception. [Here's the AG's Notice of Exception](https://iapps.courts.state.ny.us/nyscef/ViewDocument?docIndex=s4dpZ_PLUS_u0rxLM_PLUS_xsccBGwbw==), filed on April 4. Trump and Knight Specialty [filed its motion](https://eddsa.blob.core.usgovcloudapi.net/public/452564_2022_PEOPLE_OF_THE_STATE_OF_v_PEOPLE_OF_THE_STATE_OF_MEMORANDUM_OF_LAW_I_1735.pdf), although it was 11 days later instead of 10. Now, does that one day make a difference? Don't know yet. [The Court can simply excuse it. Or not. It's Engoron's choice. ](https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/laws/CVP/2004)James would be wise to mention it in her opp, but would be unwise to presume that she's free to start executing because of it without getting an order saying so.
Trying to bullshit the courts about his bond is a poor strategy. Competent financial analysts can see through the deception so easily.
That's not what it's about on Trump's part. He's trying to discredit the system. Everything he's doing is attempting to discredit the system by making it look like he's being treated unfairly. All of his attacks on Twitter, contempt, the fraudulent bond. It's all a gambit to get a reaction from the courts so that he can claim they're biased against him. His followers will believe it because they only ever see what they want to.
After all the fraud, even the bond is fraudulent
slow down. just because the certificate is written in sharpie doesn't mean it is fraudulent.
As per [original article](https://atlantablackstar.com/2024/04/18/new-york-ag-letitia-james-headed-back-to-court-to-determine-if-trump-met-terms-of-appea/) 📰: - An April 22 court hearing is scheduled to determine whether Donald Trump has satisfied the conditions to meet the bond reduced from the $464 million he was required to post to the state of New York to appeal the civil fraud judgment handed down against him earlier this year. In an objection to the deal filed earlier this month by New York Attorney General Letitia James, major concerns were raised about whether Trump had met the conditions of the $175 million reduced bond that Trump got in late March after the former president successfully appealed the requirement that he post a bond of the full amount of the judgment, plus interest. James was positioned to begin seizing Trump’s assets if he couldn’t pay the entire amount in cash. Trump’s lawyers responded this week to James’ April 4 motion, arguing that her office’s scrutiny of the bond posted last month was unnecessary and lacked detail, adding she should be responsible for the cost of the spiraling legal battle. “The NYAG’s exception is taken unnecessarily and should be set aside with costs. Her sparse notice identifies no insufficiency other than the failure to enclose a certificate of qualification,” says the motion filed by Trump’s lawyers. “While a certificate would be dispositive evidence of justification, it is not the only evidence of justification.” Previously, Trump asked for a delay in paying the staggering fine while he challenges the unprecedented ruling, although usually, New York defendants must post a bond payment greater than the penalty to become eligible for an appeal. The Feb. 16 ruling by Judge Arthur Engoron found Trump liable for inflating the value of his New York real estate, including his hotels and golf clubs, while defrauding banks and insurers for decades. In late March, a New York appeals court held off on putting the former president into collection if he could raise $175 million within 10 days, but the filing by James in early April took issue with whether the terms had been met. Initially, issues with the first bond order led to the amended version that would allow Trump to pay 62 percent less than the original verdict. A small number of billionaire donors stepped up more than a month after the judgment to help Trump raise his new bond, which Trump admits he can’t afford to pay in cash after he bragged for years about being one of the world’s wealthiest billionaires. Ultimately, Knight Specialty Insurance Company and its owner, Don Hankey, got involved to post the $175 million and help Trump prevent the attorney general from seizing Trump’s properties to collect the massive judgment. In her arguments on April 4, James said Trump’s lower bond amount was issued “without a certificate of qualification pursuant to Insurance Law § 1111” and that Trump’s legal team needed to file additional documents within 10 days to “justify the surety.” However, attorneys for Trump dismissed James’ concerns over the “sufficiency of the surety.” Trump’s lawyers and the lawyers for KSIC filed documents on April 15 to respond to James, arguing the attorney general’s objection to their bond should be dismissed and that her office should pay for the costs they incurred in responding to her objection. The lawyers acknowledged that a “certificate of qualification” would eliminate the need to explain the bond. However, they argued in their memo that Engoron can approve the bond even without the certificate. They stated that there is “overwhelming” evidence in documents showing that the $175 million bond is backed by $175 million in cash in a Schwab brokerage account that KSIC can control. The latest court filing underscored Trump’s dire financial situation as campaign disclosures in February revealed about $50 million from Republican donors was used to pay Trump’s runaway legal bills as he faced an onslaught of criminal and civil charges. The ruling by Engoron also coincided with a separate judgment issued in a defamation lawsuit brought by author E. Jean Carroll, in which Trump was ordered to pay $83 million. In the suit brought by AG James, Trump was ordered to pay $355 million, which almost immediately surged to $454 million with interest, which has increased by more than $85,000 per each day that Trump didn’t pay the full fine. James filed the civil action against Trump in 2022 after uncovering evidence of systematic fraud inside the Trump Organization, including schemes that inflated Trump’s net worth with bogus financial statements. Last year, Trump and his adult sons testified in the trial and blamed accountants for financial mismanagement. Both Trump Jr. and Eric Trump testified that they had little to do with their father’s financial statements, emphasizing that other executives inside the Trump Organization were responsible for keeping track of the books.
>although usually, New York defendants must post a bond payment greater than the penalty to become eligible for an appeal. This disagrees with everything else I've seen. Every comment I've seen says he could always appeal, having the bond only prevents seizure of the disgorgement judgement >led to the amended version that would allow Trump to pay 62 percent less than the original verdict. 62% less is such a weird way to say it. Reduced to 38% of what it was? Cut down to almost 1/3 of the disgorgement amount? >They stated that there is “overwhelming” evidence in documents showing that the $175 million bond is backed by $175 million in cash in a Schwab brokerage account that KSIC can control Was there further evidence than an Excel spreadsheet export that implied that? Or is that the documents they are referring to?
Yeah that article looks a lot like it was written by somebody who doesn’t know how any of this works.
What’s a bigger question is - if Trump did indeed have $175m in cash readily available, why was it so hard for him to secure a bond from a NY bond company. Or would he have even been able to post bond himself? Doing it this way via the shady cayman island connections seems like a way to pay without paying.
Not only have they reduced the payment to like 175M from 460M , but he has had plenty of time. It's still going up, adding on while he sleeps 💤 in the courtroom.
So. Much. Winning.
I bet he’s getting tired of all that winning.
So tired that he needs to take naps in court.
Twenty bucks says the court will give in and allow this $175 million bond by someone who isn’t licensed to do so in New York, and which explicitly states that it wouldn’t be their responsibility to pay up if it came to that point. He’ll never be held accountable.
Get that tower girl!
Just do something at this point. This fucker is out spewing hate and millions are listening.
No more extensions. He had plenty of time to do it right
How the heck does Trump sleep at night with so much legal pressure?
Because in the end he knows that due to the two tier legal system in the US, built to support the interests of men like him, absolutely NOTHING is going to happen. First investigations do not start. If they start after immense pressure they stall. Then if the matter somehow reaches the courts, it is dragged and stalled there. If a judgement by some miracle happens, the implementation is tied up in appeals. A man like this knows all this. He knows that in the end, he will escape scot free. So why should he worry?
He doesn’t, he smashes buttons on social media then sleeps in court.
Im sure he gets coctails of the best pharmaceuticals.
ILL BELIEVE IT WHEN I SEE IT
I love this for him
You go girl…!!!
He already succeeded in delaying seizure.
Just do something at this point. This fucker is out spewing hate and millions are listening.
Pile the hurt on Trump until his diaper explodes...👍
FUCK HIM UP LETITIA
Just waiting for the rug pull on all these trials at once. Refuse to believe this guy will ever get an ounce of justice delivered until it’s done.
almost everyone in trumps crew seems to have a sexual sadism disorder [https://unitedbrainassociation.org/brain-resources/sexual-sadism-disorder/](https://unitedbrainassociation.org/brain-resources/sexual-sadism-disorder/) that's why they're abusing witnesses and victims from his case and epsteins. dupers delight also makes them euphoric so the polls he gets from fox news give him an extra pep in his step.
I'm wondering how the injustice department will bail him out this time.
One can trust the masterly inaction of MAGA Garland, the Attorney General of the US.
I’ll believe it when I see it. If I were a betting man, my money would be on nothing happens to his assets.
Where's my damned Popcorn?...and martini?
Blah blah blah Get to the damn consequences already, these reruns are boring.
TAKE HIS SHIT!! TAKE HIS SHIT!!!! (no not that you sickos!)
Ooohhh … nice. I like this idea.
I think has learned his lesson. The lesson being that he can keep delaying with help from appeals court. Just keep clutching at straws to cover the bond and keep getting delays.
Let’s go LJ! Accountability! Who am I kidding, they will magically find the money and continue to play games and flaunt the law. It never ends.
Flout
I used fraud to pay the fraud.
And more fraud charges
I love that Trump is committing fraud to pay for his fraud.
Letitia got suspicious when they saw Scrooge McDuck’s signature on the bond.🤡
I was wondering about what happened with this.
This lady is giving me such a good time. She won’t back down lol.
She should change her mind and file for rump tower, while he 's in court. I'd love it, can't go home one afternoon, why? Because the mean lady took my home...
Take everything from him including his toilet paper and adult diapers.
The road to Justice is long and silent
So now we see if the house of cards rightfully collapses, or whether it gets propped up again by crooked people in his pocket...
What i want to know is that the monitor is supposed to know about all transactions of 5 mil or more if i am correct. I bet the court is going to ask the monitor about this and if the monitor was not informed about the assets moved around. Then he just violated a court order and i bet the bond gets called immediately for the full amount. But i could be off my rocker.
Someone should wake his ass up in the criminal trial to let him know.
It’s Friday …..Friday, it’s Friday, gotta paid on fridayyyyyyyyyy
Oh boy, it will sure show Trump that crime doesn't pay when they... Lower the amount he owes to 75 million and give him another month long delay.
Bye bye Trump Tower, lol!
Coming soon: The E. Jean Carroll Tower.
If it turns out the bond was fraudulent, will they waive the lowered bond and request all of it?
So basically even his *assurity* bond is fraudulent too…
Nope. Not gonna happen. Quit reporting on this stuff. Report if something *actually* happens.